#36 | A Substance Use Primer: Courageous Guidance for Parents Navigating Teen Addiction
16 Mar 2021 · 43 min
Heather Hester talks with addictions counselor Richard Capriola about warning signs of teen substance use, vaping trends, and how parents can build trust through listening. The episode covers treatment options, co-occurring mental health issues, and the pandemic's impact on adolescent mental health.
Chapters
Welcome to Just Breathe: Parenting Your LGBTQ Teen, the podcast transforming the conversation around loving and raising an LGBTQ child. Filled with awesome guests, practical strategies, and moving stories, host Heather Hester always makes you feel like you're having a cozy chat. Wherever you are on this journey right now, in this moment in time, you are not alone. And here is Heather for this week's amazing episode.
Welcome to Just Breathe. I am so happy you are all here today. I am really excited for our guest today. I have Richard Capriola with us who is the author of The Addicted Child, and we are going to talk about a subject that I have not yet talked about in a professional sense. I have shared lots of anecdotal stories, but I'm really excited to share this information with you because Richard has written a book and a parent's guide workbook that really does a great job of discussing and explaining and describing adolescent substance abuse. And if any of you have tried to research and read about this subject, you know that it can be overwhelming and sometimes really overly scientific, especially if you are mid-crisis with your child or just beginning to explore the subject. And that is really one of my favorite things about Richard's book and his workbook. They are both very well organized, broken into very easy to understand and, um, digest chapters with just the right blend of anecdotal and scientific research. So Richard has been a counselor for adolescents and adults for over 2 decades. Um, actually he did that before he retired and he just retired a few years ago from being an addictions counselor in Houston. So we are thrilled to have you. Thank you so much for being with us today.
Oh, thank you so much for inviting me to your program and the opportunity to speak to you and your audience about this important topic of adolescent substance abuse, especially for parents and grandparents and other family members to help them get a better understanding of this and perhaps be better prepared in the event that it comes across. But, but I really appreciate you taking the time to, to talk to me and to have this discussion.
Absolutely, well, it is a very important discussion to have. I think as you and I were briefly touching on before we started recording here, it is, and you talk about this in your book as well, how important it is to start having these discussions early. And they don't need to be heavy, they don't need to be intense, they just need to be conversations. And I think that it's one of those topics that as parents, um, it's a little bit more difficult for us to approach and know how to discuss with our kids. But really what you have explained in your book and what so much research is showing, that teaching our kids about substances and the dangers of substance use at an early age makes a huge difference.
It does make a huge difference. It's very important. I think, uh, um, the reason I wrote my book was to give parents an easy-to-read resource that would help them be better prepared to understand this somewhat complicated issue of adolescent substance abuse, but yet put it in terms that, um, are not overly technical or not weighted down with a lot of scientific jargon. It's the kind of book that, as a parent myself, I wish I would have had when my son was a preteen and a teenager. Just the basic information of what I need to know, what are the warning signs, what are the tests that I should get done, what are the programs I should look at, and to condense all of that into a book that is readily accessible and you can keep it on your bookshelf, you can read it, you can refer to it from time to time if you need information. But it is so important, first of all, that just parents be aware of this that they be aware of the warning signs, that they know what to look for, and that they know what to do if the situation arises where they need help. And then to develop that good solid foundation with their child of communication. And that takes time. But parents, we can all do a better job of developing that trust in that relationship with the child, which then opens the door of perhaps having a good communication channel with them to talk about these issues, to help educate them, and in the event that they get captured by these substances, hopefully to have a good foundation where they feel that they can trust you with the information that perhaps they've been using a drug like marijuana or using alcohol, and more importantly, why they have been using those substances.
That is absolutely correct. So many good things that you just, you, that you just hit on. And I'm gonna back up through it because I think that finding that, that reason, that underneath reason, why is this going on? And we can only find that out if we have a good relationship with them, if we have, if those, if they know that the channels of communication are open. And we've We've talked a lot about, you know, on the show about how as kids go into adolescence and then being teenagers that they don't necessarily want to talk with us, but at least it seems that way. But truly underneath, they, they do. And they want to have that ability to be able to come to you and to know that they can talk with you about anything. Even if it is about substances or, you know, dating or what, you know, things that they'd normally be like, I'm not talking to my mom about this, you know. And really, I know this, I say this to you all the time, but I know it can be so very uncomfortable to bring up a subject like substance use, especially when they're younger. But bringing it up and just talking about it is just— you have to deal with being uncomfortable because you're— the, the alternative is they're going to find out about it. So you have to think about, well, would I rather have them learn about this on the internet or from their friends, or would I rather give them good solid information? And Those are your options. Um, and I think that, you know, for everyone, Richard's book is a fantastic reference. Like he said, have it on your bedside, have it on, you know, you could— it is a great reference book where you can just flip to whatever substance it is that you're concerned about and the information is there. And it makes it very easy for not only you to learn about it, but for you to educate your child. On it.
I think that's so, so very important. And talking about good relationships with, with our children, I would encourage people to also get a copy of the parent workbook that I put together, because I wrote that book to help parents, because parents are going through their own struggles when they find out that their child is using a substance like alcohol or drugs. They're beginning to question, where did I miss the warning signs? What did I do wrong? Am I a good parent? So they're going going through their own set of emotions at the same time. So I wanted to put this very brief workbook together to help them. And one of the things that I discuss in the workbook is how you can communicate with your child in a way that helps your child feel accepted. And, you know, we're very good at listening to people's words when they talk to us. We're not so good at listening to the feelings behind those words so that when our child is talking to us, we hear what they're saying, we hear the words, But we sometimes don't get the underlying feeling behind those words. So I have an exercise in the workbook that parents can use to help them, and we can all learn better communication skills. But how can we learn the skills? What can we do? What kinds of questions can we ask so that when we're talking to our child, we're not just hearing their words, but just as importantly, we're hearing the feelings behind those words? And when we can get to that point where we're listening to their feelings, not just their words, then we can respond to their feelings and we can open up that discussion where we're not just talking about words here, we're talking about, about how you're feeling about things. And that's, that's crucially important to developing that relationship with your child.
Absolutely it is. I think that is a very— it's such a good point. And It really develops that trust, the parent-child trust, because once they know that you are truly hearing them and you're able to reflect the feeling, to validate what they're feeling, that's huge. Yes, it is huge. And it is something that, you know, I've only learned in the past 2 years, and my husband as well. And It is phenomenal. And, you know, we're to the point now where my oldest, who is 20, who is my reason for doing all of this, and my other 3 children as well, but he's the one who like really opened this door. He, you know, he'll say, Mom, I just need for you to validate. Because a lot of times what happens, and parents do this, this is our knee-jerk reaction when our child is you know, comes to us with a— whatever they're telling us, whether it's a problem, a crisis, what we want to fix right away, right? We go into that like fix mode. We panic and we want to fix. And instead, we need to learn to, you know, take that breath and hear what they're telling us, hear what they're feeling, validate their experience, and then we can move together forward.
That's absolutely right.
So, but I do have to giggle that he can tell me that I need to validate. Mom, remember you need to validate. Yes, you are absolutely right. I am working on that. It is a work in progress forever and ever, people.
It is a work in progress. And every parent can practice the listening skills. They can get better at this and it will be a skill and yield benefits that you will have with your child beyond their adolescent years, beyond their teenage years. It will benefit them and you even into adulthood.
Absolutely, absolutely it will. It is a really cool thing to watch and to be a part of— more accurately, be a part of— as we've moved from, you know, from him. Our journey started when he was 16 and he's 20 now. And as he's kind of emerging into true adulthood, it's amazing the things that he's able now to turn around and recognize from, you know, 4 or 5, 6 years ago, and that we can really talk about in such an open and honest way. And it's just Lovely.
And it doesn't happen quickly. I mean, you know, we need to be patient. We need to be patient with ourselves. We need to be patient with our children. But I have sat across from numerous parents, and I have gone through the history of their child's alcohol or drug use and given them a diagnosis. And they oftentimes would look at me after hearing the information, and they would say something like, 'I had no idea this was going on.' Or if they did suspect their child was using a substance, they would say something like, 'Well, I knew this was going on, but I didn't know it was this bad.' So I wanted to write this book to give parents the warning signs so that they're not later saying, 'How did I miss the warning signs? What did I do wrong? The warning signs were right there, but I didn't know about them, and I wasn't aware.' So That's why it's so important that parents know what these warning signs are. And it's one of the reasons that I have these warning signs throughout this book.
Well, I think that's really— that is very key. And I really did— you hit the nail on the head with that. I'm wondering if you could actually share just a few with us just to kind of as a little teaser for the book.
Sure. There's a section in my book that talks about process addictions. Process addictions are behavioral addictions. Chemical addictions are alcohol and drugs. Examples of process addictions are kids who are developing an eating disorder, kids who are self-injuring, kids who are excessively playing games or excessively using their, their cell phone. These are process disorders, and I have warning signs that parents should be aware about if they suspect their child has an eating disorder. What do you look for? How do How do you know if your child has an eating disorder? How do you know if your child is self-injuring? Because some of the kids that I dealt with who were using alcohol and marijuana were also developing an eating disorder or were cutting on themselves. So my book lists the warning signs for things like eating disorders and, and self-injury. There's also warning signs for alcohol and marijuana listed in the book. But as a general rule, what I advise parents to do is pay attention to any changes that you see in your child. These might be behavioral changes, they might be academic performance changes, they might be appearance changes, but pay attention to the changes that you see in your child. Don't necessarily assume that these are normal adolescent development changes. They may very well be, but they may also be a signal that something underlying, underneath the surface is going on. So pay attention to those changes, and the more The more changes you see, the more likelihood it could be that there's something else going on. So some examples would be you might have a child, for example, who used to participate in sports, no longer is interested in participating in sports. You may have a child who used to take a lot of pride in their appearance, no longer cares about what they look like. Or you may have a child that was performing academically very well, and now you notice that the grades are starting to slip and there's problems developing at school. So those are some examples of changes that that we need to be aware of. And if we see them, you know, take action to, first of all, have a discussion with your child, as we were just talking about, to get their input and see if they'll talk to you about this. But also to get some assessments done so that you know what the reasons are behind the changes that you're seeing.
Yes, that's actually what I was just going to ask you. What do we do when we see these things going on? So those are both Excellent suggestions. And just so everyone knows, Richard does give a great— there's a great section in the back of the book that also gives links to not only websites where you can get information, but actual programs, different kinds of treatment programs, whether it's, you know, therapy, counseling, and even more intense than that— inpatient, outpatient, wilderness, all of these types of options. I know it can sound so very scary, but truly this is so much better that you discuss it and you look at your options and do something about it than pretending it's not going on, because it will not go away on its own. And the sooner that you address it and, and figure out a solution to move forward, the better it will be.
I agree. I agree. Because you don't want to just let the situation continue until it builds up to where it becomes a real crisis. Most of the young girls and boys that I treated, because I worked at a psychiatric hospital, they were sent to Menninger Clinic because the situation had become in many cases life-threatening. Happening for these kids. And the substance abuse had gotten totally out of control, which then affected behaviors, which became out of control. And the parents finally said, "I've got to do something about this and I have to do it now." So you don't hopefully want to get to that point. You want to intervene at the earliest possible stage to help yourself, to help your child, and to help your family. And I've got an entire section in the book on if you suspect that there's something going on, what type of assessments, what type of tests should you get done? Because it's very important that you get an addictions assessment, but you need other assessments as well so that you get a complete picture of what's going on with your child.
Correct, correct. And I think that, you know, specifically to everyone listening here, if this is something that you are perhaps, you know, wondering about with your child or worried about with your child, and many cases, you know, our kids will have co-occurring disorders. So, and I'm wondering if you could talk about that just a little bit because I think that is a very— that is something that it took us a while to get to with Connor. And I think that is really important information for people to understand.
I think it is too, because many of the children that, that I worked with and assessed not only had a substance abuse disorder like alcohol or marijuana, but when we did all of the testing, we discovered that they had an underlying mental health issue. That in many cases needed to be treated as well. Examples would be a child who has a lot of anxiety, a child who has a lot of depression, a child who maybe has a history of trauma or being abused or maybe being bullied at school. These are all underlying issues that many times parents don't know about. They see the effects of it, but they don't understand why it's going on. So the comprehensive test that was done revealed that in, in some of these cases, these children were suffering from these underlying issues, what I refer to as intolerable thoughts or feelings or memories that they use to medicate, use a substance to medicate with. Now that's not true for every child. Not every child who's using alcohol or marijuana has an underlying psychological issue, but for those that do, it is very important that the parent obtain a complete assessment to discover what's going on. And then when it comes to treatment, to treat both the substance substance abuse and the underlying issue.
Absolutely.
When I worked with both boys and girls, teenagers who were using marijuana, and they were using a lot of marijuana, when I asked them to help me understand why they were using so much marijuana, the number one answer that I got back from them was, "It helps my anxiety. It helps me manage my anxiety." And that's just one example of how a child may be using a substance to medicate an underlying issue that many parents aren't even aware of. They're aware the kid smoking marijuana, but they have no idea that the kid is suffering, say, from anxiety or from some type of situation that may be going on at school, and they're using the substance to medicate those intolerable feelings.
Right. Absolutely right. And I think that is very, very important to note and to be aware of. And I love that you have this, you know, the list of these tests. And so, you know, parents, you are aware of, you know, I think half the battle is knowing what you need to look for and what you need to ask for so you can advocate for your child and for your family. And so this is just, you know, thank you so much for doing this because it just makes it easier. I want to switch gears just a tad— and I think this is a really important distinction to make— is the difference between adolescent and adult addiction and substance use.
I think there's two differences between an adult addiction and adolescent addiction. The first is in brain development. Adolescents' brains are not fully developed until around age 24 or 25. So in the case of adolescent addiction, addiction, we have a brain that is not fully developed. Adults, on the other hand, after age 24, 25, their brain's fully developed. So the first big difference is in brain development. Adolescent brains not fully developed. The second major issue between adults and adolescents when it comes to addiction is in the area of consequences. Many adults who are addicted to a substance oftentimes have faced faced catastrophic consequences as a result of their use of a substance. They may have lost a job. They may have lost a marriage. They may have been incarcerated. And those are catastrophic consequences that adults who are addicted to a substance often face. Adolescents, on the other hand, very rarely have they faced such serious consequences. Usually their biggest consequence is their parents yelling at them or grounding them or putting them on some type of restriction. Addiction. But their consequences are much different and much less than the consequences that adults have faced by being incarcerated or losing a job or perhaps seeing their family torn apart. So brain development and consequences, I think, are two big differences between adults and adolescents who are addicted to a substance like alcohol or drugs.
Thank you. That is really, that is really important. And I think, you know, definitely points to why We need to pay that much closer attention to our kids. I've, I've often laughed knowing that the brain does not fully develop until 25. I used to always, you know, I always say to my kids, I'm your frontal lobe, because that's, that's decision-making and impulse control, right? And that is not fully developed. So like, that's what the mom does, right? We, we act as a frontal lobe.
And that part of the brain is not— is the last part to develop too. So yeah, you Your analogy is a very good one.
Thank you. So it is, you know, it also helps us understand why perhaps they do try substances because they don't, they cannot fully comprehend consequences. They can't comprehend. We all remember that feeling of we can do anything we want, right? And that's that feeling. Well, we can try whatever we want. Nothing's going to happen to us. And without realizing that they have critical brain development going on, you know, and, and this is not an easy thing because you made a point earlier about what is typical teenage development and what is a sign that there could be substance use or abuse going on or a mental health issue going on, right? So I think just knowing your kid. And that is having that— those— it goes back to those communication skills where having that type of relationship where you just, you can cue in so quickly on even the most minute changes that you're able to have those conversations earlier.
Yes. And I, I put an entire chapter in my book on the neuroscience of, of addiction, um, and, and because it can be be a very complicated, very heavy type of subject, but I wanted to boil it down so a parent could read this chapter and immediately understand how these drugs work in their child's brain. What is going on in the brain chemically that gives this child the sense of pleasure that they want? What, what, what is it that causes them to have this feeling of high? And I wanted to boil that down into layman's terms so that you could read this chapter and you could begin to immediately see, well, this is what's going on in my brain's child when my child's brain when they smoke marijuana. And this is what causes that sense of that surge of pleasure that they're seeking. This is how it really works.
Right.
And it was fantastic. I mean, really, really well done. I've, I've read a number of books on substance use and abuse, and this was just so easy to understand and to kind of wrap your head around. So thank you for doing that. I so appreciate it and will be— continue to be appreciated by so many more. You talked about both assessments and then identifying and finding effective effective treatment programs. And I'm wondering if you could just give a few more specifics about what to look for and what you think are important, because that can be so very overwhelming when you're in that place. And obviously, it's spelled out in your book, but I'm just wondering if you could give just a couple of ideas of things for people to be thinking about.
Sure. I— the, the, the importance of a comprehensive assessment is that it leads to a diagnosis. And I want parents, and I emphasize in this book, a diagnosis is not a label. It's a diagnosis. It doesn't label your child as being an addict. There is no diagnosis called addiction. It's a substance use disorder. So the comprehensive assessment leads to a complete picture of what's going on with your child and a diagnosis. And the only real purpose of a diagnosis is to set the groundwork for treatment, to, to direct where we go with next with treatment. Now, there is no one treatment fits everybody approach because every child is different, every assessment is different, every treatment plan is different. But once you have that treatment plan, then you have the direction on where do you go from treatment and depending upon the results of the comprehensive assessment, you will have some guidance as to whether or not your child needs maybe weekly counseling or maybe a more intensive counseling situation where they may be seeing a counselor 2 or 3 times a week as opposed to once a week. Or you may be in a situation where the comprehensive assessment leads you to where you need some type of residential treatment. Usually in the cases that I've worked with, residential treatment where we're talking about sending a child into a 7-day, 24-hour treatment program for 6 to 12 months is usually driven more by the psychological issues than the addiction issues. These are children, for example, that might have severe depression. Maybe even suicidal thoughts. These might be children who have a lot of post-traumatic stress disorder symptoms or a high level of anxiety or may have an emerging behavioral issue or an emerging psychiatric issue, such as developing symptoms of an emerging schizophrenia being developed. When these psychological issues get to be really severe, then then more likely we're looking at a case where a parent would be recommended to look at a residential program. But in a lot of cases, you know, many kids can do well in counseling sessions, professional counseling sessions that might be able to address these issues as well. So every child is different, every treatment plan is different, and every treatment is different depending back again on the assessments that was done.
Done, right? So that's just really, really key, is, is that's kind of the first step, is getting those assessments done, because everything else really depends on what is found out from those. So I think that's something really important for everybody to remember, and again, not to panic. This is, you know, something that you want to address Trust when you figure it out. Yes, it is scary. Yes, it makes you worry, but acting on the information you have, getting a plan in place is always better than pretending it's not going on and just hoping that it will go away, hoping that your child will grow out of it. Always better to, to talk about. So I think that's one I know that's one of the bigger lessons that, you know, I've seen not only in my own life, but in so many people that I've talked to, that that can be very scary to take that very first step. And just want to encourage you to do so and, and just to, you know, even educate yourself with a book like Richard's before anything even starts. It's a wonderful educational book. I'm wondering if there is a topic that I have not hit on yet that you would like to share with, with me and with everybody.
I think I would want everybody who's listening to know that this issue of substance abuse is a serious issue among the adolescent population. And, you know, we know that kids have been drinking alcohol for some time. That's always been one of the substances that we're concerned about when it comes to teenagers. Marijuana is another substance that they're using. There's not a high rate of use of what we call hardcore drugs, you know, cocaine maybe 3% of seniors, LSD maybe 4% of seniors. There is some abuse of prescription drugs like Ritalin and Adderall. So if you have if you have any alcohol, if you have any prescription drugs or any drugs of any kind in your house, you need to secure those and make sure that you monitor them. But I think what we are seeing are two really important issues. In the last 3 years, we have seen a surge of adolescents turning to vaping substances, where they will use an electronic device to turn a substance like marijuana or nicotine into a vapor and they will inhale it. Over the last 3 years, there has been a tremendous surge in adolescents vaping. For example, 3 years ago, only about 18% of seniors were vaping nicotine. Today it's 34%. 3 years ago, only 9% of seniors were vaping marijuana. Today it's 22%. So just in 3 years, we have seen a surge of, of adolescents turning to vaping nicotine and vaping marijuana. Now, on the other hand, cigarette smoking has declined to all-time lows, but what's happening is kids are moving away from smoking cigarettes to vaping nicotine. And the other issue that I think is important is the effect of this pandemic on kids and families. It's disrupted families, it's disrupted kids. And we have seen that since the pandemic started, there has been an increase, roughly a 24% increase in emergency room visits by grade school children. And there's been a, been over a 30% increase for teenagers who are urgently in need of mental health care. So this pandemic, and I think we're just scratching the surface for both adults and adolescents on what this pandemic is doing to the mental health of both adults and adolescents.
But absolutely.
So the increase in vaping and the increase on mental health is taking a toll on teenagers and their families.
And do you think that the increase in vaping is because it's more easily accessible or because everybody's doing it? I mean, why do you think that is? What, what do you think is driving that?
I think that's an excellent question because when we look at why are kids using the drugs they're using, we're finding two things. First is availability. If you ask teenagers, how easy is it for you to get, say, alcohol? Okay, or how easy is it for you to get marijuana? They're going to tell you it's very easy. For example, almost 80% of seniors say it's easy or very easy for them to get marijuana if they want it. About 30% of them will tell you it's easy for them to get LSD if they want it, and 80% of them 80% of them tell us it's very easy for them to get alcohol if they want it. So availability is one issue. Kids know that these drugs are easily available. The second issue is their perception on how harmful these drugs are because teenagers will tell you, for example, only about 30% of teenagers will tell you that they think smoking marijuana regularly is harmful. Harmful. They don't believe it's harmful, and a large percentage of them will tell you that they think that having 1 or 2 drinks a day is not very harmful. Only about 24% of seniors will tell you that they think having 1 or 2 drinks every day is risky. So when you combine the easy availability of these drugs— kids say they can get these drugs without any problems, or they can get alcohol without any difficulty— and the low perception of risk, then you have the perfect storm. Easily available, belief it's not risky, and that's why we're seeing the increase in, in some of these things like the vaping. The other issue is vaping is very easy for kids to get away from. Some of these, some of these vaping devices look like pens, they look like USB drives, so they're easy to conceal.
They're easy to conceal, and they also typically do not have a smell. So what we used to— you used to use the sniff test, right? I mean, you can smell alcohol, right? You can smell cigarette smoke, and even marijuana in bud form you can smell, right? But if it's in a vape device, you cannot smell it, and it is very easy to hide. So just be aware. And I'm so glad that you brought up the pandemic because because that is something that has, like you said, it has affected everyone, adults and kids alike, in a lot of very similar ways. And none of us are gonna be left unscathed. So just being that much more aware of what to look for is so super important.
It is. It is very important, and knowledge is power. Knowing things and having the information is so powerful for parents. It gives them a feeling that maybe they can be in control of this situation. Just knowing the warning signs might help parents feel like, okay, I think I'm better prepared now. I think it's less scary. I know what to look for, and I feel better knowing that I have this information. I hope I never need it, but if I do, I feel better better knowing that I know what the warning signs are, I know what to do if I see them, and I know that there's help out there, right?
Absolutely.
I mean, that is— I couldn't have said that better. That is exactly it. It gives you that sense of, okay, I've got this. There's, there's a plan. There's 12 plans if I need them. And, um, and it allows you as a parent to breathe, and, and, and it keeps you grounded, which allows you to connect, because— and that's what you ultimately need to be able to do. So it's a lovely circle that keeps that— keeps everything moving in a good way. I am just so thrilled that you were able to be with me today, and I want everyone to know as well, Richard and I talked about this a little bit before we started the show, if you have questions that you would like to ask Richard, if you, you know, on this subject, please send them to me and I will put this in the show notes. I will put everything we discussed about in the show notes as well so you can access his book, so you can access, you know, all these different things. But please let me know and I would be happy to have Richard back again to directly answer any questions that you have. So thank you so very much for being here today. This was wonderful.
Thank you. I hope we were able to share some information with people. I thank you for your comments and your suggestions. I think they were very helpful. And I would encourage anybody who does have questions, I'm sure that there are issues we weren't able to address today or questions that they may have as they listen to the program or even if they read the book, if they will send them in to you, I will be more than happy to have another conversation with you where we can respond directly to their questions. The book is priced at— very affordable. You can get it in electronic version, you can get it in paperback version, you can get the workbook, and I would encourage people to go to the book's website too, which is helptheaddictedchild.com, where they can get more information. They can order the books directly through the through the website too.
Wonderful, wonderful. Well, I will link all of that in the show notes and on my website so people have access to it and are able to get right to all of that. So very valuable, and again, just a wonderful resource to have on hand and just help you feel more calm and better educated on a subject that we all need to understand better. So, Richard, thank you. Thank you so very much for being with me today.
Well, thank you. Thank you for inviting me. Thank you for your contributions. And, and I hope, I hope it was beneficial to everyone who listens too. So thank you so much.
You are welcome.
Thanks so much for joining Heather Hester today. Remember to just breathe. Take a few minutes every day to calm and center yourself. Reach out anytime with ideas, questions, or feedback. Please rate and review Just Breathe on your favorite platform. Subscribe to Heather Hester's website, www.chrysalismama.com, to receive her monthly newsletter and stay informed. Join the private Just Breathe Facebook community to chat with other parents and allies, and share with anyone who needs to know that they are not alone.
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