#75 | Unconditional Love: LGBTQ Ally Courage, Healing, and Growth Through Compassionate Parenting

Welcome back to Just Breathe. I am grateful you are here. The meaning of love has been debated throughout the ages by poets and writers, through art and theater, by the great and gifted minds, and by all in between. And yet it remains a bit of a mystery. We know how we feel when we love, how our hearts, souls, and minds fill with joy and the calm peacefulness that just doesn't seem to have a word. But how do we explain all of that with words? What is unconditional love? That is the topic for today, and I cannot wait to share what I have learned with you. But before I do, I want to invite you to join me on the 14 Days of Magic Challenge. Starting Monday, October 25th, I am challenging myself to be my very best self for 14 days while also helping to save the Amazon rainforest. So how is that possible, you ask? Well, I am going to drink one Magic Mind Shot every day and share how I'm feeling with you all on social media. Every post, repost, and share helps raise money and awareness. Magic Mind is an all-natural energy booster filled with adaptogens and nootropics that help increase focus, creativity, memory, and mood while decreasing stress and anxiety, which I'm all for all of that. I'd love for you to join me on my 14 Days of Magic. So check out the show notes for the link and the discount code, which is BREATHE14. You can go to magicmind.co/14daysofmagic to learn more. And remember to use BREATHE14 as the discount code at checkout. Not only can you try this with me, You can save 20%, and when you post using the hashtag #14daysofmagic, you will be entered to win a 3-month subscription of this wonderful little drink. So I can't wait to see who's going to join me, and we'll talk soon.

Welcome to Just Just Breathe Parenting Your LGBTQ Teen, the podcast transforming the conversation around loving and raising an LGBTQ child. My name is Heather Hester, and I am so grateful you are here. I want you to take a deep breath and know that for the time we are together, you are in the safety of the Just Breathe nest. Whether today's show is an amazing guest or me sharing stories, resources, strategies, or lessons I've learned along our journey, I want you to feel like we're just hanging out at a coffee shop having a cozy chat. Most of all, I want you to remember that wherever you are on this journey right now, in this moment in time, You are not alone.

Raise your hand if you've ever been in conversation with your LGBTQIA+ child or friend and felt confused or embarrassed, or even frustrated because you didn't understand the meaning of the words or phrases that they used? Come on, it's nothing to be ashamed of. My hand is raised. We've all been there, which is why I created a guide for us called The Language of LGBTQIA+. It's a 50-page book of comprehensive yet easy-to-digest explanations. Text BREATHE to 55444 to access this amazing book. That's B-R-E-A-T-H-E to 55444.

Welcome to Just Breathe. I am so happy you are here today. Today I have just a really, really wonderful guest with me that I'm so excited for you to hear from. She is one of those people, you know how you meet people and you feel like you've been friends for 100 years and it's just like having a conversation with an old friend? That is what it has been like just chatting with Kim for the past a little bit here today, and we got to speak the other day as well, but I'm really excited for her to share her story with you. And I just want to start out by giving a little background on who she is and why she's doing all of the extraordinary things she is doing in the world. So Kim Sorell is the director of Rays of Hope International. She is the award-winning author of her most recent book, Love Is, and Cry Until You Laugh, and she is also an international speaker. And she shared a little bit of her story with me when we first met. And I just have to give you this little snapshot into her life because it is absolutely amazing. So just hold on to your seats as you listen. 4 months after her breast cancer diagnosis, her husband was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and passed away 6 weeks later. Losing her husband made her question the real meaning of love, so she dedicated a whole year to figuring out love and how to live it. She spent most of the year in Haiti, where she made life-changing discoveries that absolutely rocked her world. She was chased by a motorcycle gang. She slept on the ground where there are snakes and tarantulas. Oh my gosh. Um, got lost on a mile-high mountain, and I can't wait for her to share all of her other amazing adventures. So Love Is, her award-winning bestselling book, tells the sometimes scary, sometimes funny, and always enlightening stories that lead to revelations about love. So Kim, thank you so much for being here with me today. I am delighted to have you, and I'm so excited for our conversation.

Heather, my friend, I have been looking forward to this very much, so thank you so much for having me.

Of course, of course. So I wonder if we could start out just by kind of expanding on the very just intriguing little bits that you dropped there for me that I was like, holy cow. Wow, you are an amazing, strong woman.

Thank you, and, and likewise you are as well. And, you know, and, and it takes us all, you know. One thing that we have discussed is that women, we need to, we need to be on each other's side. We need to support each other. We need to be there for each other, you know. Um, men are men, women are women. There's a difference between us, and let's stick together, be for each other and not against each other.

Yes, right? Absolutely. Oh my goodness. Yes. And I'm just so grateful to— it's not often that you meet somebody that you're like, yeah, I will forever have her back and she'll have mine. And this is awesome.

So yeah, I agree. I agree. You're stuck with me.

Yeah.

Yay.

Good.

I'm happy.

Oh my gosh. So tell me about I just want to hear more about your story because wow, just wow.

Oh yeah. Well, I mean, it was a crazy time, right? Losing— I was 47 years old and you have your life laid out before you, or you think you know what your future is going to hold. You're going to be these 95-year-old people on the front porch in rockers drinking lemonade, right? Smiling at each other. I don't know, whatever you do at that point in time. And that was what I was going to be. And then at 47, he's gone. The love of my life is gone. And so it did make me question love. And so I thought, you know, it seems to be this mystery in so many ways. You know, Ed Sheeran sings beautiful songs about it, and Nicholas Sparks writes lovely books about it, right? About a romantic love. But love is so much more than just a romantic love. I mean, love is for everybody, and it's universal. It's always everywhere. And so even though there's been so much written about it, most of the time it ends with, well, it's a mystery. You know, or it's funny because when I tell people I've written a book on love, that I lived a year dedicated to searching for the true meaning of love, they go, well, I know what love is. You know, well, love is just this feeling, this feeling that you have between two people. Or, you know, they'll tell me what they think love is. And I want to say, well, I'm sorry you're getting it wrong, but, but love, love is a little different than, than what most people think. I mean, we do so much in the name of love that is not love. We say things in the name of love that have nothing to do with love, right? And, and if people understood the true meaning of love, what love really is, and then embodied it because love isn't a feeling like fear or excitement. Love is something you are, something you can be. It's walking, talking, living, breathing, giving. It's so much more than just a word you say from time to time, or even every day, or whatever, or only for some people. It's for everybody. There's no bucket of love. And, and so you have to kind of conserve because, you know, if you use too much love, then you're going to run out, right? It's overflowing. There's no end. There is no end. You can literally love every person in the world and should, but you can love everybody. There's no end to the amount of love that you have.

That is such a— so it's really, it's an It's an action word. It's a verb.

Yes, it is. It's, it's a verb. It's a noun too, because you are love, you know. So it's a, it's a noun. It's a, uh, you know, it's so funny because I, I went in thinking I knew, you know, that I had some ideas about what love is, and found out quickly that, um, I did not. I, I decided I was going to use this 2,000-year-old poem that you hear at a lot of weddings: love is patient, love is kind, does not envy, does not boast, etc. And take one of the words or phrases each month and work on it for a full month to figure out what is love that is patient, what is that, what is love that is kind. And, uh, so I start out like in my book, I start out each chapter with what I think it's going to be Like patient, we know what patience is, right? We're not upset because dinner's not ready and we have to quick leave soon as it is because there's one of the kids has a concert later, you know, whatever it is, and you get upset. And, and not getting upset, that means you're being patient. But you put love is or love is not in front of any word and it changes the meaning. So like love that is patient. So there are 14, by the way. In this poem, is-isn'ts of love. So it took me a little longer than a year, right? And it took me to the end of the month every month to figure it out. I mean, it was not as easy as you think. So many of the words seem so easy. Kind, we know kind, you know. I mean, of course you don't easily anger, you know, whatever. But, but when it comes down to it, it's so different. Every single one, 100% different than what I thought it was going to be. Every single one. Yeah.

So give me an example, or give us an example of, let's just start out, you know, love is patient. So what did you start out thinking? Kind of like what you just explained to us, right?

Right, right.

And then how, what was your process that you went through that you were like, and your revelation of, oh my gosh, it's actually this over here. How did you, how did you do that every month?

Well, you know, I just had it on my mind all the time. Love is patient, love is patient, love is patient. And just kept looking for it and looking for it and looking for it. And I was in Haiti and, uh, working, and we sent a lot of containers, shipping containers down to Haiti. Had a huge fiasco with the dock, big fiasco with, with everything going on. Like, it was just crazy. And at the end of the day, I was whipped because I felt like I had been whipped all day long by this container and everything that went wrong with this container full of medical supplies and, you know, valuable things that people need in the country, right?

Right.

And, um, so, uh, what I figured out is that love that is patient— and again, I really think you're supposed to love everybody, so the person at the grocery store, your next-door neighbor, your partner your kids, you know, whoever in your life. And, uh, that, that when you do love that is patient, when you show that love, when you show love, uh, it says to you that this is the most important moment of your life. What's in the past is in the past. What's in the future is yet to come. This is the moment that's going to come and go with or without you. And for me, it was very easy to be distracted and think, oh, I've got this meeting later tonight, I gotta stop at the grocery store on the way home and get milk, gotta get a kid to soccer practice, you know, whatever it is, right? And think I'm engaged at the same time, think that I'm listening, but realizing, you know, I'm not giving it my full because they're talking, talking, I got things to do, places to go, people to see. Right. Well, love that is patient is in the moment, totally in the moment, just listening. Just listen without your rebuttal waiting, without being distracted by anything. You know, conversations can be short. If you've got things to do, you got things to do, of course, you know, whatever. But you can always say to somebody, I'm so sorry, I can't talk now, but can I call you later? If you don't have time to be in that moment, if you're on your hurry and in a hurry on your way to something. But if you got a minute, which most of us do most of the time if you think about it, um, to be engaged when you are just focusing on the person you're with, showing them that kind of love, you hear things that you've never heard before. And you realize that we have a whole lot more in common than we do different from each other. And you understand better somebody when you actually really listen to them. You might have no response. If you have no response, that's okay. I mean, just the fact that you've listened and learned from somebody. And you know, every day leads us to today. Right? So all the stuff we're taught, our belief system, our mannerisms, our everything, you know, leads us to today. And nobody but you has walked in your shoes. And so you are the only one that believes exactly the way you do, acts exactly the way you do. You're unique and special that way. And we all have to give each other a little bit of slack. Realizing that people are where they are, right? And it can be so easy to want people to be where we are, you know. Why are they not enlightened the way I am, you know? Or why do they believe that? They're so wrong, you know. And but, but love takes away all of that. Love realizes you only control yourself. You don't control anybody else. You know, you have these babies and, and when they're born, you have total control. You decide when they eat, you decide when they go in their crib, you decide when they take a bath. You have total control. 6 months, 7 months later, they're crawling around and all the Tupperware's out of the cupboards and the pans are banging all over and you realize you've lost control. And I promise you, you will never get it back again. Ever, right? So yeah, we have no control over anybody but ourselves. So people are allowed to have a different opinion. You can totally disagree with that opinion. It's okay for you to not have the same opinion. That's fine. But it should never be a confrontation. It should be a conversation. And it's okay to hear somebody else's opinion and find out why, why do they believe that way. You know, why? Dig in a little bit. You know, why?

What?

When were you taught this? You know, why do you believe this way? And then see if they want to hear why you believe the way you, you believe. And, and then you can have a conversation. And because you allow people to be who they believe they're created to be, everyone should be who they believe they're created to be. And love gives people that freedom and gives yourself that freedom as well, right?

Right. Oh my goodness, so many things to think about. Um, I love, I love how you just kind of this whole analogy and really bringing up this, you know, a question that many people have, or a something that weighs heavily on many people is having diff— differing opinions with those they love, right? Or disagreements or not seeing eye to eye. And that makes it tricky, right? When you're really trying to figure out— I mean, I think one of the really key things that you stated was the being fully present, right? And when you are fully present and being able to see the human being that you are with and being fully in tune. Um, that is such a huge piece of that. But I'm also wondering, trying to figure out how to ask this question. When we talk about unconditional love, what is the difference between— or is there a difference between love and unconditional love? And in a— and I will just speak very directly about, you know, what I have experienced and what I witness in so many other people's lives, which is people you love disagreeing, having very strong feelings about a child or a person who is LGBTQIA. And the love is very much, I love you even though, I love you but I love you with that condition, right? Or there's something tacked on the end. How do we work through that? How do we, you know, I think that's a really difficult thing that many people struggle with where, you know, I love this person, right? Is that real love?

Well, you know, it's funny because, um, like, I really do love everybody. I love everybody. And, and there's something very freeing about just, just loving, because that's all you have to do is love people, right? That's all you have to do, right? But you don't necessarily have to like them. Like, not, not all personalities gel, right? Not all, you know, if, if there's people in your life that are hurtful, harmful, you know, say, do harmful things don't be around that. That doesn't help you. But love doesn't say you have to. You don't have to hang with everybody. You know, none of us are gonna hang with everybody, right?

Right.

So, and that's okay. That's all right. But when you love, it should be unconditional to begin with because love is not a two-way street. We're taught that very often, right? We give love to get love. You know, go into a marriage and that's what they'll tell you. If you love them, they'll love you. That's not true.

No.

There's nothing true about that. Love is a one-way street. Love is on you, period.

Right.

It has nothing to do with what the other person's doing. It is, uh, soon as you are loving to get love in return, That's a transaction. That's like, I'll give you money and you give me a pair of jeans. But that's not love, right?

Right, right.

So yeah, so you can certainly run into, and likely will run into, people who don't understand love, and, and they're not gonna be living it, and they're not going to respond the way you respond. But the reality is love always wins. Love never fails. If there's a boxing match and it's your brother and you, you're winning. Love is gonna win. And, and it's, uh, it's this incredible thing that can happen in your life because when you really love, then you are completely free. Because you realize, first of all, like I said, all you have to do is love. But secondly, you are not responsible for what anybody thinks. That's not— or does— that's not your responsibility. You have no responsibility in that. So people can— I mean, how harmful is it? How much does it hurt? It hurts so deeply when a relative or a good friend says, oh my gosh, your son's gay. I How can you stand it? There's something wrong. You know, these— it's a lifestyle choice. Or, you know, the things that people say, right, that are so hurtful, so harmful. And, uh, and but, but you don't have to hang with that. You know, you— if they want to hear what you have to say about it, you can. But sometimes people aren't in a position to receive it. You know, it's funny, one of the phrases is love keeps no record of wrongs. That's a tough one, right? Because we might forgive, but we don't forget the things that happen to us. We don't forget about them. And so how do you deal with that, not keeping a record of wrongs? Because it, it's so easy to be in a position where you go, oh my gosh, I love everybody except those darn Democrats, right? Or I love everybody except I love everybody who is anti-gay, you know, thinks that that's okay. I love everybody except— well, as soon as you put exceptions on it, it's not love, right?

Right.

So you can love those people. Doesn't mean you gotta hang with them. But love that doesn't keep record of wrongs, when I was working on that that month, it was a tough one. It was a hard one. And I was dreading it. But I happened to be— I got a phone call from a man in the United States. In the United States who wanted to go to Haiti to see a water project we were working on. And so I went, asked if I would go with them. So 8 American men, I brought 2 Haitian friends with us to translate and help, also men, and me. So 8 American men, 2 Haitian men, me. We got to where we were gonna stay, little building with 2 rooms with 4 twin-sized beds in each room. And so the head— but I'm thinking there's room in the rooms, and we brought a couple cots and an air mattress, no problem, we're good. Well, the man in charge of the American men said, Kim, Kim, can I talk to you? I'm like, well, sure. He said, um, did you see the rooms? And I'm thinking, buddy, there's nothing else to see, there's nothing else here, right? And then I went, oh, he's gonna think I want my own room. So I'm going to say, well, that's okay, I'll sleep outside. And then he'll say, oh no, if anyone should sleep inside, it should be you. And then I'll say, well, I don't care if there's other people in the room. And he'll say, good, because there's only so much space. So I said, well, it's okay, I'll sleep outside. And he went, oh good, good, because there are men on this trip that would not be comfortable with a woman in their room. And I just thought, oh my gosh, I really I did this to myself and I can't believe his response. So I had to figure it out. So I saw this piece of plywood that was held up by these two wooden things. And I thought, well, if I sleep under there, at least if it rains, I'm okay. So first night I went to bed and I'm scared because there are tarantulas and there are snakes and there are chupacabras, I don't know, whatever lurking in the bushes, right? And so I'm nervous about going to bed. That something is gonna bite me, dismember me, I don't know. And so first night I go to bed, the air mattress held air for about an hour and then I'm sleeping on gravel, but it was loud. Dogs are barking, horns are honking. Finally, 1:00 AM something, I don't know, whenever that died down, then voodoo drums started in the distance and that went on for a couple hours. And then finally in the early, early morning I was able to doze off. Well, the first night came and went and no problem. I'm thinking, oh good, good, good, thank you, thank you, thank you. And so the second night, same thing, no air in the air mattress, dogs, horns, voodoo drums, and then I'm finally dozing and I woke up because there was something on my leg. And I thought, oh my gosh, does Haiti have the antivenom? Are they going to be able to fly me to Miami in time to save my life? Like What is this that I'm gonna discover? And I was on my back because I figured that that was the easiest way to get up and run if I had to, right? So I was on my back. So I slowly lifted my head and slowly opened my eyes, and it was a chicken. It was a dang chicken on my leg. And I didn't know whether to be mad because it woke me up or happy because it was a chicken and not something worse. So I shooed it away. Third night came and went, no incident. Fourth night. Oh my goodness. Horns, voodoo drums, right? Finally dozing. And again, I woke up because there was something on my leg. Oh no. So again, I lifted my head slowly and opened my eyes slowly. And again, it was the dang chicken. And again, I didn't know whether to be mad or happy. But that night we had chicken for dinner. So my 5th night came and went without incident. And you know, at first I was mad at these guys. I was bitter. I was like, you know, I'm all about equality, absolutely, but I'm still a woman. There's still a difference, right? And to make anybody sleep outside, you know, I wouldn't be a group of women and make a man sleep outside, right?

Right.

So, and I thought, gosh, I hope my sons wouldn't treat a woman like this, you know, just whatever. And, and I was bitter. And then, then I'm thinking, love doesn't keep record of wrongs. And I realized that bitterness only hurts me. They don't know I'm mad. They don't know that I'm thinking that they're jerks because they made me do this, right? They have no idea. So it's only hurting me and only affecting me. And then I realized what love that doesn't keep record of wrongs is. It, it just changes the narrative. I'll never forget that time. I'll never forget it. But now to me, it's just a funny story. And it— I could literally sleep anywhere in the world and be perfectly comfortable and safe and fine. So love changes the narrative. Love that doesn't keep record of wrongs changes the narrative. So you've got these people in your life that think that the way your son or daughter lives is wrong, you know, like, like they're choosing to live this way, that it's not really who they are, you know, all the, all the horrible things that you hear, right? That cut, that cut like a knife. So love that doesn't keep record of wrongs, instead of being bitter toward that person, you realize that They're coming from whatever place it is they're coming from. That, that, that's what it is. And so everything they've been taught from the pulpit, from their parents, from teachers, from peers, from whoever, everything they've seen, everything they've been taught, that every day leads to today. And so they are where they are. They are where they are. And so the narrative then is that, that they, they are where they are for whatever reason, that's where they are. And to— and so instead of being just angry at that person for not understanding, right now, maybe they can't understand, right? They don't, they don't have the wherewithal to understand. They don't have the tools to understand. They're afraid, they fear understanding, right? So much plays into it.

Yeah.

So the narrative then changes to, that's who they are. They're, they are where they are and they are who they are, right?

Right.

I think that is such— I love how you— because I don't think that most of us would kind of naturally get there from that verse, right? From love doesn't keep record, kind of equating that to this is about forgiveness. And what does forgiveness What does forgiveness really mean? And that is a— that's a hard one. And I could not have explained it better. I just recently myself had this like epiphany of exactly this, like, oh my gosh, this isn't about me saying or anybody saying what you did or said is okay, right? It's about letting it go. Not letting it make you bitter or angry or hurt or whatever, you know, combination of all of the above, right? And it's about just, I mean, just like you said, like, this is theirs, this is where they are, and I am letting that go. I can't control their journey. What I can control is how I respond to it.

Right.

Okay. Seriously, 50 years of my life, and I'm sure you felt the same way. You were like, oh my gosh, I thought forgiveness meant this totally different thing, that, you know, not keeping record— love does not keep record— meant something totally different than what it actually means, right?

Right.

So true. And there are 14 of them, and there are 14, you know, and we touched on 2, right? I mean, and every one is life-changing. Really, every single one is life-changing.

They really do, really, when you know what it really means. Oh my goodness. I mean, and I, I think it is just extraordinary that you were moved to do this, that this came at a time when you were dealing with so much of your own pain and transition, um, and To be able to look at this, this poem, at this, these verses, and just think, okay, well, I'm going to pull this apart because I need to understand this, and this is how I'm going to do it, um, is really such a gift to everyone. Thank you.

Well, thank you for saying that. I, I'm pretty passionate about knowing that if people lived love with real understanding, understanding what it is, the world would be a different place. And, and you'd be so much happier and have so much freedom. And, uh, you know, if you think about the people you want to hang out with, right, the people that you're drawn to, right, what makes them different? You know, what is it about them Well, chances are it has to do with love. It has to do with them living love. I mean, it's, it's a magnet. And, and so when you act in love and live in love, people want that. People want to know your secret sauce. And even though you don't love to get love, and you know, even though it has nothing to do with it It's, it's kind of contagious, and people want to know, why are you so happy? Why, why are you okay talking to anybody and listening? Right, right. And it all comes down to love.

It's a powerful energy. It's a very powerful energy. And people, I believe, truly want to understand. You brought this up a little bit earlier about fear being such a deciding factor in that, right? And I think fear drives so many of so many things, is at the base of so much, right? But when one learns how to love like you have, and the true— what true— the true meaning of love is and how to live that daily in the world, then that's just incredibly powerful, positive energy. That you're just putting out there, and people don't even realize they're getting, you know, touched by it, right? They just know it feels good. They know it feels like, ooh, I want to talk to this person, or this is— I need to know more about this, right? And that is— I think that's how, in my, you know, probably very naive, humble opinion, that is how we change the world, right? Is This is how we have to live, right? You can't go after hate with hate. You can't go after anger with anger, fear with fear, right? What's the one thing that combats all of that, right?

Wins. Love.

It does.

It's so fun.

I said this a couple weeks ago. I was just telling you about this coaching group that I'm in, and one of the people in there, we were talking about what I do, and one of the people said to me, you know, when people say mean things or go after you know, other kids or your business or whatever it is, you just need to go after them and you need to put them in their place and you need and, you know, need, need, need, need, and you should and all of this. And I was like, you know, I appreciate that. That is not how I roll. That is not who I am. And that historically is not effective. I mean, if you just— right, let's just pull things apart here for a minute, step back and look at history. Generally does not work. So my approach is a little bit different, right? And, and, you know, at the time I used the word grace, but really I, I'm not in love, right? And so, I mean, I'm still learning to, to the depths, you know, getting to the depths of your understanding. Um, but I do— I think that's one of the reasons I was so drawn to you and so drawn to your story, because I was like, Ah, this is life-changing. It is world-changing.

Yeah, yeah. You know, there was a big WWJD craze, right? What would Jesus do? And people had had it on t-shirts and mugs and, and everything else. But Jesus is different to everybody, you know, to, to some, even with Christians. To some Christians, he's love and light and all things great and wonderful. And to some, he is judgmental and tipping over tables and, you know, whatever. And, and to some, some people outside, he's a, he's a heretic, or he's a prophet, or he's a whatever. So answering that question can be different to different people. So instead, if it was WWLD, what would love do, right? That should be a pretty universal answer.

Yeah, right, right. And I think that actually reminds me of something you said very, very, very early on, is when people say things and do things in the name of love. And, um, I remember really wrestling with that a few years ago and thinking, how is that possible? Like, how, how do other people really, like, in their minds they're thinking, I'm doing this out of love. Like, oh my goodness, that it couldn't be further from love, right? But in their minds, they think it is. So it's— I think it is just one of the more, you know, it's helpful to us to understand that because these are the ways that, you know, we need to spread, spread this, this what you've written. This right here. Everyone needs to read this, um, because, you know, if we're capable of epiphanies, every other human being is capable of epiphanies or transformations or evolution or whatever you want to call it, right?

Oh, you know, I hadn't really thought about this until right this minute, but, um, I have a friend who has one of my favorite people in the world, her son, who has the most wonderful husband and just this great human being. And she has family members who think it's wrong, you know, and condemn it and say not nice things, you know, about it. And it's a separator. And so she asked her friend if she would read, um, God and the Gay Christian. Great book, right?

Wonderful book. Yes.

And so, yeah, love it, love it. And, uh, and, and her sister was like, well, then will you read this? You know, something against, against it all, you know, whatever. But if you said to someone, will you read Love Is because even though it doesn't address specifically, although it does, it really does address, uh, it addresses this for sure, um, but it's, uh, an easier way to take it, you know. And so it's not a book strictly about having someone who is anti-gay in your family, right? It's for everyone. It's for everyone. So if you said, would you read this, and then see what they come away with, it could be very interesting to see what they come away with after that.

I love that. That's actually a really, really phenomenal suggestion because you're exactly right. As much as— and we had talked about this the other day because your friend was so like, this is such a great book, why wouldn't she want to read this, right? It was because her friend or her sister was not yet in the right place for it, right? You kind of have to be in the right place for it. Um, and so, and I know I've, I've done the same thing where I've shared, you know, whether it was that book, which I love, or Unklobber or Mom, I'm Gay, you know, these incredible books that were so transformational for me doesn't mean that the person I'm giving it to is yet ready for that, right? Because everybody's on their own journey. So giving them something that, or suggesting something that is more— love is universal. It does not matter your religion, your spiritual beliefs, your background, your— I mean, anything, right?

Right.

Right. And what's a human being?

Yeah. And what is somebody going to say? Oh, I hate love. I don't ever read a book on love. Right.

Love's the worst.

Love. Yeah.

Love doesn't exist. Well, there are probably those who think that, but Sadly. Um, but yes, exactly. I mean, it's kind of hard to argue with.

It kind of is, right?

I mean, you know, everyone, just FYI, this is what you're all getting for Christmas this year. So, oh my goodness. But I mean, in all seriousness, what a great, great way I mean, there's, there is so much for— I'm sure when you started on this journey, you had no idea what you would come out of it with, right?

Right.

And I think that's one of those beautiful things when you set out to learn about something, to understand something, you often end up in a place that's very different than what you thought you might. I can certainly say that about my, you know, my journey. I did not set out to, to learn about how to support my child coming out as gay. I had no idea I would end up where I am now. I mean, that was— that couldn't have been— it wasn't even a thought that was yet born anywhere, right? So it's kind of extraordinary, right, when we set out on these things that we do, the path that, you know, whatever you want to call it, you know, your higher power, the universe, whatever, right? That the, the plans that are there for you, what you are meant to do in the world and, um, and share with the world and what the world can learn from you. So thank you.

Oh my gosh, thank you for sleeping with Chickens.

Oh my goodness. I mean, holy cow. I just— as you were telling that story, I'm like literally like squirming. I just can't. Um, yes, that is, that is huge. That is huge.

Yeah. Well, thank you for what you're doing. I mean, Heather You know, there— it takes someone special because we all have different gifts. We all have, you know, we're all different people. Not everybody can do what you're doing. And to be such an advocate and, and know the truth and, and be out there and doing it in a loving way, really. I mean, you're not standing on a soapbox and trying to beat over people's heads the truth, right? But you're, you're showing it in love. You're talking about it in love. And what a needed thing. I mean, here we are in 2022, for goodness' sake. Why is this an issue?

Why is it—

it should not be an issue. My word. Live and let live, for goodness' sake. Let people be who they're born to be, right? I mean, it's that simple.

It is that simple. Yeah, correct.

Correct.

I think that's why it is just so— I mean, for so many reasons, but you think, oh my goodness, I mean, it is 2022 and we're actually going backward right now. What is wrong? The way someone is— it is just— and you can kind of put this to like, not just people, you know, my, my son was created to be gay, right? Somebody else's son was created to have ADHD, right? Somebody else's, you know, these are not— they're not broken. There's nothing wrong with them. That's who they were created to be in this world. And why my son being gay and somebody else's child having ADHD is not affecting you, but yet there are those who make it their mission to make sure their lives are as difficult as possible, right? And so I think, I don't— why do you let that consume you so much? Like, there, there's a lot of energy that you're using, right, that you could be using for good. That is a lot of angry, hateful energy that could really be redirected in such a beautiful way.

It's so true. And it's hard to hard to like those people, right? It's hard to want to hear it or want to be around it or, or whatever. And you don't need to. I mean, you can do whatever you want to do, but if your response is love, right, it calms the waters.

It really does. It's kind of magical.

It is.

I mean, if people— if you respond, you know, in a way that is calm and with grace and with, I want to hear what you have to say. That takes all of the wind out of those sails.

And you know what also can be so interesting is when people need to voice what they're saying they believe, when they need to say the words out of their mouth.

Yeah.

Then they're listening to themselves say these words. And quite often people can go, well, this is the way I believe because da da da da da da da, about anything, right? Right. And then hear themselves say it and go, ah, does that really make sense? Right, right. But if you give them the freedom to do that, you know, you, you give them the space to do that, you, you'll listen, right? Listen. I mean, you already know you're not going to agree with them. But they might say something that helps you in the next conversation, you know, or whatever. But, but just listen. Who knows? Who knows what's going to happen?

Exactly. Exactly. That is exactly right. And it's certainly easier, way easier said than done, right? But important nonetheless. So yeah. Oh my goodness. Well, everyone. Um, Kim and I will be having weekly coffee. Yes, we will, because we are— this is just, you know, like I started with. Oh my goodness, it has been such a, a joy talking to you. And just, it is, it's like somebody— I feel like I've known you my whole life. Um, so it is, it is a— that's a gift. That's a gift. So thank you. Thank you for sharing yourself with, with me and with the world and, um, and just for being here.

Well, thank you for this opportunity. Thank you that we've connected and now we're going to be connected forever. I love it.

Yes, we are. Oh my goodness. And you know, you're just a hop across the lake, so very cool. All right, well, thank you, thank you. And we will be back.

And now it's time for your parenting LGBTQ&A. This week's LGBTQ&A question is one that I think many, many of us have, which is why I chose it for this week. And it came in from an anonymous person asking, please help me understand I don't understand the word queer. I have heard it used in so many different ways, and I just don't understand when it is appropriate to use or what it actually means. So when I was doing some reading up just so I could give the very best answer I possibly could, I do have a shorter answer within my language of LGBTQIA ebook that is available to you, but I found an even longer definition and discussion on the mykidisgay.com blog, and this blog is written by the people who wrote This Is a Book for Parents of Gay Kids. So just for context and just so you know where to go to find more more information. I am actually going to be taking the answer from here because it was just so complete and so helpful. So queer is a reclaimed word used to describe any sexual orientation and/or gender identity that may fall outside the common identities of heterosexual and/or cisgender. It can also be used as an all-encompassing inclusive term for LGBTQIA. So queer is a hard word to define, so this question is— you're spot-on accurate that this is difficult and it can be used in so many different ways because it is so broad and it means many different things to different people. So it is simultaneously an umbrella term to capture many of the LGBTQIA identities. It can be a personal identity, and it can be an academic term, all of those used. It can also be a derogatory offensive word when used in a negative way. Academically, queer is also used as a broad umbrella term for LGBT areas of studies such as queer studies or classes in queer literature. The word queer has a really long history, and just kind of the short version of that is over the centuries queer has gone from meaning misaligned, not straight, weird, or quirky to an important identity in our community. Queer has also been used as a derogatory term, and in the '50s and '60s LGBT people felt it was only a slur used by heterosexuals against homosexuals. During the AIDS crisis in the '80s, queer was reclaimed by activists to be used as radical, challenging, rebellious, and politically charged word. During this time, activists needed a word that could shock the inaction out of the general public. So that's where the phrase "we're here, we're queer" came from. During the '90s, queer also began popping up as an academic term for LGBTQIA-specific studies, theory, and literature. Queer steadily became more and more mainstream and was even used in pop culture like Queer Eye for the Straight Guy. Context is key when using the word queer. Queer has been and continues to be used negatively. So someone yelling "queer" at an LGBT person or saying, "Wow, what a queer," is using the term in a derogatory context. However, someone saying, "I identify as queer," is using the term as an identity marker. So queer can be a very personal identity to own. While some identities like gay or lesbian are fairly easy to define, queer is different. Queer is whatever an individual person needs that word to mean. So when your child comes out as queer, don't assume that, that what that word means to them, because queer is so personal, an identity often means different things to different people. Encourage honest and open communication and and let your child guide you. It is absolutely okay to ask and just say, "I want to understand. I really, really want to understand." So I hope that answer was helpful, and I look forward to next week's question.

Thanks so much for joining me today. If you enjoyed today's episode, I would be so grateful for a rating or a review. Click on the link in the show notes or go to my website, chrysalismama.com, to stay up to date on my latest resources as well as to learn how you can work with me. Please share this podcast with anyone who needs to know that they are not alone And remember to just breathe. Until next time!