#99 | Listening Is the First Act of Allyship: Finding Courage in LGBTQ Parenting

Welcome back to Just Breathe. I am so happy that you are with me today. Have you ever wondered if you would be good at coaching others, or even if there's a niche out there that is exactly for your passion? Today's guest is absolutely brilliant at coaching people through that exploration process. Candy Moczek spent years as a senior leader in corporate and as an engineer and then decided to make that change and do something that she loved. She is passionate about coaching other coaches and teaching other people how to become coaches. She coaches successful people to gain clarity, grow in confidence, and take action on what matters. I feel so lucky to have Candy as a friend and a mentor. I've had the privilege of working with her as a coach and alongside her in a mastermind group. Candy knows how to peel back those layers and really help people work through their sticking points. I am so delighted to share our conversation with you. Welcome to Just Breathe Parenting Your LGBTQ Teen, the podcast transforming the conversation around loving and raising an LGBTQ child. My name is Heather Hester, and I am so I'm so grateful you are here. I want you to take a deep breath and know that for the time we are together, you are in the safety of the Just Breathe nest. Whether today's show is an amazing guest, or me sharing stories, resources, strategies, or lessons I've learned along our journey, I want you to feel like we're just hanging out at a coffee shop having a cozy chat. Most of all, I want you to remember that wherever you are on this journey, right now, in this moment in time, you are not alone.

Welcome back to Just Breathe. I am so happy you are all here. I am delighted to welcome back a dear friend of mine and a brilliant coach, Candy Moczek. And we have had lots of really, really interesting conversations over time, and a lot of them lead back to listening. And so I'm going to pose a question to everyone listening: How would your relationships change if you listened more and talked less? And I just want you to think about that for a moment. And Candy, I wonder if you could jump in because you have so many brilliant thoughts about this that you, that you've shared over time, but we've had such interesting conversations that are kind of, you know, not your typical, well, this is what you need to do, 1, 2, 3, right? It's the kind of thinking, I don't wanna say out of the box cuz that's such an overused term, but that just like seeing the, the, the corners that not, you don't you don't see yourself, right? So would love to hear your thoughts on this.

Yeah, and so I think that listening is one of the things that we can completely transform our relationships with. I know that it's really— you've probably heard this before about, you know, listen or listen to understand before you respond. But we still live in a world where we talk a lot. We have a lot of opinions about things. And it's not just even the talking where the words come out of your mouth. It's when you're in conversation with somebody and there's talking inside your head, right? Like you're not even, listening to what they say. And so I think that, that then there's this complete lack of connection and we don't even realize we're doing it. And we actually think we're listening, but we're not. So I really like this topic because it's something that you don't need a huge amount of practice. You don't need to go and get your master's degree. You can just take a couple of easy steps and actually shift how you do it in the moment?

You can. It's that idea of becoming more aware, right? Aware of what you're doing. Because what you just said, so many of us do. We listen to respond. We listen to what's being said and we're already formulating 10 seconds in how we wish to respond to that.

Yeah.

Instead of listening to hear, listening to understand, listening to connect. We're all guilty of it. So how do we tap into— what can we do to really tap into that awareness, that space of slowing whether it is slowing things down a little bit or shifting.

So when I took my coach training originally, and I know they still teach the same principle, they teach 3 levels of listening. And so each of us listens at 3 different levels, but we're just not conscious of it. So sometimes the first and most important point is just being aware that it happens. And when you kind of recognize it, then you can decide for yourself. You know, this awareness, like you said, bringing it into consciousness is everything. So the 3 levels of listening are like this. The first level, level 1, is where you're in conversation with somebody and you're listening to them overtly, you know, you're looking at them kinda, but inside your head you're thinking, oh, that's stupid. That'll never work. Oh gosh, I forgot to buy milk at the grocery store. Hmm, I wonder if I have time to slip down and put, you know, my load of laundry into the dryer. Oh gosh, I hope I didn't put in my new shirt into the dryer. So you've got this inner monologue happening while you're standing there sort of kind of listening and We're probably more respectful to people that are outside of our family even, right? But people inside of our family, the ones that are actually the closest to us and mean the most to us, that's, those are the ones that it's so easy for us to slip out into that Level 1 listening. Level 2 listening was always described to me like the first date. It's like that the Disney film with the two dogs with this single strand of spaghetti. They're gazing into each other's eyes, right? And they only have eyes for each other. And that strand of spaghetti that they're sharing, they don't even realize they're eating the same strand until all of a sudden there they are. So you're like totally infatuated and engrossed and just like you can't even see anything else. You just see that other person. So that's level 2. And then level 3 is where you're listening to the person, you're listening to the words, you're listening by looking and seeing their mannerisms, you're listening to the speed of how they talk, the space between their words, what's happening in the space around them, and what's not being said. So that's a much more holistic listening. And the best example that I've ever heard of that is when you are at work and you arrive a little bit late for a meeting and you walk into that meeting room and everybody stops talking and you could just cut the energy in there with a knife. It's like, oh gosh, something happened. What happened? What happened? That where you can feel that something was going on. So that's an indication of how you can feel that third level of listening as well.

Wow, that is, um, that's such a great visual for all three of them because I'm sure as we're all listening, we're thinking, yeah, I've done all of those, probably more of one and two, and we aspire to do number three. But that kind of listening requires focus and it requires also the ability to stop doing anything else that you're doing, right? So whether it's— I— this is my example that I kind of go back to often and think about, you know, when it's like 10:30 at night and you're exhausted and you've, you know, whether you've just stopped working or you just have had a really long day, you just need that like 30 minutes of like, shh, quiet, and you're sitting on the couch, and whether you're on your phone on TikTok or, you know, playing Candy Crush, or maybe even reading a book, which would be so lovely, um, and such a good use of your time, um, and then your teenager walks in and they have all these things to say to you, right? And you know this is a golden opportunity And yet you're so tired. So you're in that space of like, I literally just want to like do nothing. Right. And you have to put all of that aside and like click in and, and to your point, and I actually think this is what makes that level 1 type of listening easier to practice is because it, you are using all of your senses. Right? You're using the visual cues that you know about your child, right? You're obviously using your hearing to hear what they're saying, but you are feeling their energy. We all know what our kids' energy feels like, right? And the different types of energy that they, that comes off of them and all of those little subtle cues that you're getting. So you have to be locked in and, um, and I, I do think that takes practice and it does take that. You do go through one level one, you're like, please leave me alone.

I love you, but leave me alone.

Yeah. The good night just be 30 seconds tonight. Yeah, totally. And then Perhaps in those moments we skip over level 2, or just when we realize that we're needed for level 3, we can click in there. But I do, I love those visuals because I think that makes it so much easier for each of us to know what we're, what we need to work on to be better listeners, where we get tripped up. Right? What things tend to distract us? Um, I think for many of us that would be our phones, right? Like, I've had to like throw my phone to like a different couch just so it doesn't even like begin to distract me. Like, just lock it in, right? So, and, and God love them, like, especially my 17-year-old, like, never even notices. Like, once she launches in She is in and lots of everything's just coming, right? So good.

I just want to say that there are so many parents that would be so jealous that their 17-year-old wants to talk to them. You know how many kids when they get to 12 or 13, and you know, it happens at different ages for all kids, but there's this time where sometimes they just don't want to. They just don't want to talk to you, right? That, how was your day? Eh, not even a word, right?

So sometimes it's just a look. Yeah. Yeah, right.

I'm sorry. That's sometimes me. I'm just looking at them. It's not just one way. The hormones are going all the way, right?

Oh my gosh. Yes. Ah, yeah. Where it takes every fiber of your being to, like, keep all of everything that's going on with you just locked in so it doesn't spill out onto them because it's not their stuff. But you're like, yeah, totally. Oh my goodness.

Yeah, so, but yes, I wanted to, um, you know, like your first question, I don't think I actually answered that. And I think about what would be the change if we listened more and talked less. And it's kind of interesting because you would have— I have this idea that listening is an act of love and that this is one of the ways that we really can show our love for anybody, you know, like it doesn't have to be your love for your child or your partner or a friend, just, you know, your love for somebody else as a human, that you give them your attention. And when I listen to you, it shows that I respect you, that I accept you, that you are valuable. That you're— there's the, you know, our human need to feel validated. And if you matter enough for me to listen to you, then that is powerful stuff, right? Like, think about how, you know, life would be if every person— youth, adult, senior— actually had the feeling that they were listened to that they were respected and accepted a little bit every day. I think that that would transform the world.

It absolutely would. Yeah, it absolutely would. Because think of how many people just feel invisible, right? They don't feel seen, they don't feel heard, and Those are the two most important ways that you can show any human being that they are cared for.

Yeah, yeah. And so this, you know, like we were talking— you're talking about the evening when you're already tired and you've, you know, your teenager walks in. But like, what about the person that helps you check out at the grocery store? You know, like, are they just a faceless, nameless individual with a uniform and a name badge, or is there an opportunity there just to actually say, hey, how was your day? And actually connect with them and create that connection. You know? Yeah.

Yeah. Even, I think, an eye contact and just that sincere— a lot of this can be, you know, nonverbal communication, right? That's— but that shows that you're, you you are present there in that moment with them. It's powerful.

Yeah, yeah, it really is. And it's funny because it's a, it's a tool in your coaching toolkit as a coach, but it's such an important, such an important— I can't even use the word tool— such an important component of being a human and being in relationship with people. I was thinking about, so what do you do if you're sitting there talking to your teenager and you realize that you're self-absorbed and you're in level 1 and you're thinking about the laundry? And how do you make that switch, you know? So now you've got that awareness and then you're like, oh gosh, I'm here anyway. And they want to talk. Wow, that's amazing. How do I switch? How do I notice? How do I switch? And so this is something that, you know, coaches learn how to do. And so what you had just said about first, to begin with, just look at the person. Just actually take your gaze and look at them and not give them the death stare. You know, like, this is not like glaring at them to look at them, but look at them. Look at, like, when they're talking, are their hands flapping around? Are their shoulders tight around their neck? Are they smiling? Are they open? Or are they— or is there tension rolling off of them? You know, so look at them and look at how they're being. And that in itself is a component of listening, right? It's not just the words, it's what's not being said as well, right? Just as much. So just that you notice, oh gosh, I'm in my own head worried about my laundry and there's something going on. I decide that I want to listen and then I turn and I gaze at them and just that alone will help to switch you.

Totally, totally. Um, I think that was going to be my next question for you, so I'm glad, so glad you said that because you read my mind. Um, and that is such a— you're absolutely right, even that little step of pulls you outside, pulls you out of your head, right? And gets you engaged and noticing, kind of taking note of, of what they're doing. Are they pacing? Are they standing? Are they sitting? Are they, you know, what is the pitch of their voice? You know, is it so fast that you cannot understand? Yeah, right. Or you're like catching every third word. Um, so, you know, and I think there are certain things that are very, very particular to age and, um, just the behaviors are highly, I just find so highly entertaining as I think, you know, I was just sitting here thinking to each of my, each of my kids at different ages, just the, the ways that they, when they decide that they want to talk to you, it's never like a formal, like, could we possibly have a conversation at 4 o'clock today?

Right.

Yeah.

You know, they come pop in your office or they sit on the desk right in front of you. Oh, you want to talk, do you? Okay.

You're literally mid-sentence and you're like, oh wait, yeah, they're totally like, they're clicked in. I've got to like this down because anything that they have to say is, you know, it's important if they're wanting to talk. Even checking in, I think, you know, it doesn't always have to be something important, but even those moments of checking in, you know, I think about when you're like checking in with your partner or checking in, you know, catching up for 10 minutes with a, you know, a good friend. How do, how do we do that? Right. And, and I mean, let's take it one step further. What if we're connecting like this on Zoom? So you and I have known each other for a year, about a year and a half. We've only known each other on Zoom.

I know, I would never even know how to talk to you if I met you in person, right? Because then you'd have an entire body instead. Right now you're this, you know, from the waist up individual.

I don't—

do you wear shoes? I don't know.

You know what I typically wear? This is what I'll show you. I have on always That's right.

Oh cool.

Oh, my little slippers. Nice, because they're comfy and cute.

Cool, those are better than what I've got on.

See, now, now everybody— yes, now you all know what I wear when I'm—

but they're cute and they're fluffy.

They're so uncomfortable, and I don't need to have my feet on camera. And even if I did, they're kind of cute. So, but yes, I know it's the craziest thing, but this is like being able to I think that's one of like the magical things when so many of us had to have had to create relationships over the past few years this way to really, I think it's actually forced us to be better listeners because we really have to. And I think we've all not realized that we're doing it right. It's such a subconscious thing, but we're looking for, you know, facial clues. We're looking for the tone of voice. We're looking for like, how is the person moving? And you're You're never quite sure if you're looking at someone or not because oftentimes our cameras are in like weird places. So we feel like we may be staring at the person we're talking to, but our camera is somewhere else. So it's, you know, so you don't have that piece of like necessary eye contact. Yeah.

Right?

Yeah. So, I mean, that's a whole different level of listening.

And so because I coach only on Zoom. That's— I do really notice how much I look at what's happening with their body. And it sounds, you know, like you can tell some— everybody has a tell. If they're uncomfortable, they do— there's something that they do, right? So, and so it's like, oh, okay, we're in uncomfortable territory because your left shoulder is up around your ear and your right shoulder is normal. I know, I Oh, okay. I understand that now. Right. And so that just, it helps to inform me about what's going on. The problem with noticing at that level is that it can make somebody feel self-conscious. And so you need to be quite respectful about how you bring that across, because then if I say, hey, every time you're uncomfortable, your left shoulder goes up around your ear and your right shoulder stays normal, they're like, they're, they can't even think about what to talk about because they're so busy trying to monitor what's happening with their body, right? It's terrible. Um, I wanted to just say that there is a little physical trick, not just the looking, looking, gazing at the person, but there is a— it's easier to listen if you physically relax. That is another thing that I found. So you know, just like your podcast, Just Breathe, often just take a breath and allow your body to relax a little and gaze at the person. And that can really help you kind of get clicked into the listening. And then from a, I guess it's a corporate standpoint, if you're at home and your kids come home and they're like, they want your attention right now. Something's going on. A way that you subconsciously can show them that you're actually paying attention is to swivel or turn towards them and point your feet at them. If your feet are pointed at the person, like if they're standing over in the doorway and you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm listening, and you really believe you're listening, they may not feel heard. But if you actually turn and point your feet to them, then they will actually feel like, okay, she is paying attention to me. He is noticing me. They are engaged here in this conversation. And so just that small thing of like, move your feet so that they're pointing at the person. And this works for anybody. It even works on Zoom. If I'm talking to you and I'm kind of over like this, you're like, hello, what are you doing?

Right? What are you doing? It's so true because have you ever been on a call when somebody's been like doing work and they're over here, like, doing this. Yeah, yeah. And you can tell they're, like, totally engaged in another project, and you're like, are you there? Right? Yeah.

So take a deep breath, relax, just breathe, move your gaze to the person. And then for somebody who, you know, like, if you're like, hey, I really am paying attention to you, turn and move your feet and point your feet towards them. And that will also start to train you, the person who wants to listen, that, oh, we're in listening mode now. I've just turned and I've faced them. Now I am focused on them. And so those little things can really make a big difference.

They can. And I'm so glad you said the thing about the breath because that is such a subconscious thing that we do. You know, do or don't do. Yeah. So to take that really deep breath and kind of helps get you centered, recentered, right? Like with that person.

Yeah.

Pulled away from whatever else you were doing and you're there. And, um, and especially, you know, in the case, we never quite know what our kids are going to bring us, right? Or, or anybody really for that matter. But kind of, if you're in a more calm state, and just present, then whatever they're telling you, whatever you're hearing, whatever you are learning, you are able to learn in a space that is not like this, right? Like just all, what's gonna happen? What's, what's going on? Oh my gosh, right? It's okay. Here we are. All right.

Yeah, no, this also applies when they just wanna, like, they don't even want to talk. Like, maybe your kids are big talkers, but mine aren't always, and they're adults now in any case. But sometimes they just kind of want to be close to you, right? And so you, it's not that you have to create a conversation so that you can listen, but again, and they might just come into your space and kind of flop down on that chair beside you, and they're like, they're not saying anything, but you're like, oh, oh, hey, what's good? What's going on?

Right?

And so just to kind of allow yourself to be present, and maybe that's all they need is just that. It's not that they always need to express and be heard and listened to. Sometimes they just need the connection.. And so you can use that kind of level 3 listening, the more holistic level 3 listening, just to connect with them, right? Doesn't have to be words, doesn't have to be a verbal conversation, right? It's just like, hey, how's it going? Great. And then that's enough, right?

Exactly. And I think too, that speaks to You know, as much as I think we, we can get inside of our own heads about, I need to look for this, I should be thinking about this, I need to be aware of this. And, and just like taking that minute and being like, sometimes they do just want to be around us to take in our energy, right? Because they just need to be, you know, in that space of of, you know, comfort or just know that they are unconditionally loved, that they are seen, that you've got them. And that it's, you know, a space that you also can allow to be messy. Because that makes it comfortable too. Yeah. So a lot of unspoken ways to listen as well.

Very much. There was something else here that I think is, as our kids grow older and we practice listening to them— and also, you know, this is for partners, and heck, I'm still learning as well— partners and family members and everybody, when we show them respect by listening to them, it really— the spin-off is that we trust them, that we know, we believe that they can take whatever is the next step for them. We don't think that we need to kind of rush in and fix it for them like we that, that's a big deal, like, as a parent, to have trust that, okay, well, this is what's going on, but I'll just sit here and I'll listen to you. And the place of, of lack of judgment, you know. And so that's, that's the part that I always find a little messy. If I'm listening, I'm like, I want to be present, I want to listen, and then my head, I'm going like, oh, oh, ah, No, that sounds terrible. What will the neighbors think? Oh my gosh, you know, like, will you be okay? Will you actually get into the college that we want you to get into? Like, you know, like there's all this inner judgment. And so I really found that this one sentence just helped me so much. And it still does. I mean, my kids are adults and they still have good times and challenging times because they're human. And when you sort of start to feel that, like, the kind of the worry and the judgment and that, like, will it be okay, that questioning, this just this one thought that my only job is to love them. That's it, you know. And so that quiets my worry. Like, I know that my only job here is to love them. And that includes accepting them, believing that they'll figure it out, believing that they're resourceful, and that I respect them. I can respect my— a 10-year-old. I can respect a 5-year-old, right? Like, that is huge. There's nothing worse than being disrespected when you're a 5-year-old and you've, you know, so Right.

Well, and I, you know, I think that when they're that age, there's often that feeling as a parent, like there's a ton of pressure you put on yourself as a parent, right? I'm supposed to be teaching, I'm supposed to be, they're supposed to be learning from me, and they're supposed to be well behaved, and I'm supposed to, if they're not well behaved, then that's on me as the parent. And, you know, all the narratives that you have going on in your head. Now, I think that's And it's probably, you know, definitely true for our generation. I think it is definitely shifting, which is a wonderful thing in a lot of ways. And really being able to see those little ones too is like, all right, little human, like, we're gonna go get this together and figure it out, right? Instead of this like extraordinary, feeling of, I've got to, like, putting all your stuff on them, essentially, right? I mean, that's essentially what it is. And so whatever, ever stuff you come into parenthood with, then that's what you're kind of end up dumping on your kid. So I do love that that is shifting because these little people do have their magical I mean, right?

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

So fun, you know, so much.

And I just— there's a, you know, like, you've got a large audience of listeners, and I really want them to appreciate how many kids don't have parents or allies that really want to love them and want to listen to them. So this is stuff that you can do with your kids' friends. It doesn't just have to be with your own family. Sometimes that just makes all the difference in the world, right? 14 years old and they happen to be over at your place eating pizza, and you can listen to those kids too, and that can turn their life around.

Absolutely.

Not everybody has a family life that allows for, you know, allows for relationships. And got a lot of parents that are dealing with a lot of hard times.

Yeah, creating that space where kids feel like they can just be who they are.

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, that whole judgment-free zone. Oh my goodness. Yes, we could go down a whole other road there. But I would love to talk a little bit before we finish about your work, because I have a feeling there are lots of people listening who would be quite interested in what you do. And I know we touched on it the last time you were on, so if you all have already heard Candy's first episode, you get to hear even more this time, and it's awesome. But, you know, there are a million coaches out there and coaches of all kinds, right? I mean, you and I do very different types of coaching. But I think that you, like me, do very specific kinds of coaching, and, and you coach people who are beginning coaches and even coaches who are on their path, who are learning, right? And like I said at the beginning, you have a way of— not only are you extraordinarily organized. So anybody who is coming from— I know you came from a corporate background. Not everybody's coming from that type of corporate background where you understand, you know, systems, you understand just the order of how a business should be run, right? A lot of people are coming from, you know, lots of different areas. So you are so good at being able to hone in on what that person needs to focus on in that moment to help them get to the next step. So, you know, over time, as I've worked with you, I've gone back and looked at my different notes from our different meetings. And I think, oh my goodness, like I literally had— I didn't have training wheels on when you met me. Like I just had— and I will tell all of you, I don't know if I told this in the first— you know, we had our first episode together, but I remember when we first met, we were in that very first call together and there was something. And this is why I firmly believe that you can have energetic connections with people over Zoom, because I met you in that call and there was like, there was, I just knew, I was like, I have to know this person and we have to work together in some capacity. I wasn't sure what it was because I had no idea what you did. I was like, there was something. And, and it's, so it's been true over, over time and The way that you work with people is so very individualized, and you are very good at really honing in on, okay, this is what this person wants to do, and this is how I can get them to that spot. So I'd love, now that I've said a lot, um, if you could just add a little bit about what you are doing right now, which are a couple of cool things. You are doing a couple of cool things now and you have a couple of cool things in the works.

Yeah. So I think what the thing that I love the most is that working with new coaches, this is a group of people who have this— there's a couple of themes. They always knew that they were meant for more, but they didn't know what that was. And now they've found it. Because it's like, it's coaching and it's this kind of thing that I really want to do. So that's super exciting. And then the other thing that happens is that they want to have an impact. Like, you know, like you want to make a difference with what you're doing. And then they also want to make money, like fair and simple, right? Like, why not have a coaching practice that makes money so that you can do great things with the money that you make. So I work with people in a couple of different ways. I love the customized piece, and it reminds me of just that honoring that each of us has a unique path, right? Like, I might work with 10 coaches, but one of them has this great gift of working one-on-one with people. And so, you know, how do we create something custom that satisfies their individual gifts? And then another person might not know exactly what their preferred way is, so then we get to go on a bit of a treasure hunt and figure it out. And so that's, that's the fun part, is the custom, is become a coach, know that you were meant for more, and this is the thing that you want to do. And then figure out the way to do exactly what's right for you at this time. So that's essentially how I work with people, a lot of one-on-one work. I love my private clients dearly. It's just so rewarding to see people grow and create something that really works for them. And then I will be moving more into the group space as well. It's going to be more of a casual group where you can come in and be part of a community because other coaches kind of get— like, we get each other, right? Your partner may not quite understand what you're doing, but the other coaches do. So it's a community. And then we'll have coaching. And the coaching is the fun part because when one person is being coached and somebody else is listening, they can say, oh, that applies to me too. Right? And I, yeah, so that's, that's going to be the next evolution is group coaching. And then I have a fun little shop that I'm populating right now with all kinds of coaching tools and resources and fun things too. So I just, it's a creative playground for me, honestly. I just love it.

I love it. And what's the name of the shop?

It is not the Candy Shop, but I should call it the Candy Shop.

Oh, I thought we had gotten there.

Yeah.

And it has to be shot at the O-P-P-E, you know, like within squirrely writing, right?

Exactly. Exactly. Oh my goodness. So if people want to learn more, how can they find you? And of course, this will all be in the show notes as well. So it'll be clickable and easy. But just in case someone's, you know, likes to write stuff down.

For sure. So the easiest way to get to know me a little bit better is to listen to my podcast, and it's called She Coaches Coaches. So that's the quick and easy way. And because you're listening here, it's super easy to go and find me after this episode too. Um, or you can visit my website, which is stepintosuccessnow.com, and there's all the stuff in there. So come on over and check me out, and I'd love to get to know you more.

Absolutely. Yes, please do. And I can't imagine, you know, if you are anywhere in this spot, I think one misconception is that, oh, there's, there's too many coaches, right? Or there's somebody who's going to be doing what I'm doing. Nobody can do what you're doing the way you're doing it.

Agreed. Agreed. 100%.

There's space for everyone. This is a very needed space to come into right now. So certainly if you feel like this is your calling, if you're curious, come check this out because it may be something that you're not even— you don't even realize that this is what you're interested in. So, um, you know, it's the whole idea of you don't know what you don't know. So here you go. So Candy, thank you.

Thank you.

Is there anything else that you would like to share before we wrap up for today?

No, I can't think, I can't think of anything else. But thank you so much for having me. And I was really happy to talk about listening. You know, it's, it's not something that gets a lot of focus. And I think that it's something that you can improve. Like, having just listened to this episode, you can go and you can do that like right now. It's so applicable. And it's just going to I don't know, it'll make your relationships better. You're going to have so much more fun. You're going to feel so much more connected with the people around you.

Absolutely. And it's everything. Every time you work on it, it, you just, it becomes a little bit easier, right? You become a little better at it. You figure out something that works well for you. So I'm so grateful that you wanted to talk about this topic because it is one that is not discussed enough and is something that super actionable. So thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you for listening today. If you enjoyed this episode, share it. You can also catch episodes on my YouTube channel at Chrysalis Mama 9499. And if you're interested in my raw thoughts on today's most pressing topics, you can find me on TikTok @chrysalismama. If you're looking for more support, come join us in the Just Breathe community. Text BREATHE to 847-881-3324 to learn more. And remember that you are not alone on this journey. Until next Next time.