Helping Parents Navigate LGBTQ+ Support, Mental Health, and Learning Differences

Welcome to More Human, More Kind, the podcast helping parents of LGBTQ+ kids move from fear to fierce allyship and feel less alone and more informed so you can protect what matters, raise brave kids, and spark collective change. I'm Heather Hester.

Let's get started.

I didn't get into this business because I had a child that was gay or trans or had nothing to do with LGBTQ. I got into this business almost 30 years ago because I went through kids with really significant mental health challenges. I was a single mother, literally not a penny to my name. And no real resources, but I was hella determined. And I am probably the quintessential, if you look up in the dictionary, mama bear, you know what I'm saying? I was determined when everybody said to me, when my 3-year-old, my 4-year-old, my kids now, I have 3 kids, my 2 older kids now 34 and 30, but when they were 3 and 4, something was very wrong and I knew something was very wrong, right? So I started seeking assistance for my kids. Again, I had no resources and as they were 5 and then 6 and that they were growing or in kindergarten or whatever, and each very different challenges from each other, I was not happy with the answers that I was getting and I was determined to get help for my kids. As I continued down that journey, it didn't matter that I couldn't afford the best. My son Joshua, now many years later, was one of the youngest kids in the country diagnosed with juvenile bipolar and had full-on psychotic episode at 7 years old. So I was determined to connect with Dimitri Papelos, who's one of the foremost authorities on juvenile bipolar, just as a topic even, but certainly juvenile bipolar, and I was determined to have a conversation with him. I couldn't afford to speak to him. I couldn't afford to meet with him. I was just determined. I was going to get my son the help he needed. My daughter, who does have borderline personality disorder, probably again, one of the youngest kids in the country. I was determined to get her to McLean. I was determined to work with Blaise Aguirre, one of the foremost authorities. And whatever I had to do to make that happen, I was bound and determined to make that happen. And get her the help that she needed. And both of them, this is a story that for both of my kids, it was years and years of seeking help. And I'm very fortunate that my experiences with my kids led me to be able to help other families and have the company that I have now. And, and I'm able to share when appropriate stories about my kids, because now I have literally 25 and 30 years of experience. Of being a parent to two kids with very significant mental health challenges. My daughter ultimately becoming a drug addict. My daughter's been hospitalized well over 400 times. My son has had psychotic episodes. We've had restraining orders. We have had DFS called to our house. Both my kids have been to jail. If you can imagine it, and look at me, I am not somebody you look at and think, oh, there's a woman who's got a troubled life and probably has kids with all kinds of issues. Going on. I don't think that's the impression people have of me. If you know me and you know my story, I'm very humble. All the things that we've been through as a family and what my kids have been through, and I'm passionate about helping other families. And I'll be honest with you, many times when I speak with families now over 30 years, everybody thinks that whatever's happening to them is the worst thing in the world. Yeah, you can have a kid with ADHD. You can have a kid who's coming out and you don't know what the hell is going on because you totally, you're already planning the wedding from when they were 2. We all have those fantasies, right? Like you're planning the Harvard graduation. You're planning the wedding to the girl or boy of their dreams. Your perfect little grandchildren. We all do it. Right. And none of that goes according to plan, but if you call me and your kid has ADHD and they're blowing out of school. Or your kid is a drug addict, or your kid is having anxiety and panic attacks, whatever is happening in your life right now, it is the worst case ever. It is the worst thing that's ever happened to any family ever. And for you, that is the truth.

Yep.

That is the truth because it's your experience. For me, I've had many of the experiences that those families have had. And I don't often share that with them because they need to, for me to hear them and to give them help, to give them resources, to validate them and to be like, this is the worst possible thing in your life. I get it. This is your kid. There's nothing more important to any of us than our children. What I've often, I would give, I've said to my son recently, my 20-year-old, my third kid. Was no mental health issues. He's a scholar athlete. He's amazing. But I said to him recently, I literally would jump in front of a moving train to save you. I would jump in front of a bus. I would give my last breath for you to live. There is nothing I wouldn't do. I don't know any parent that wouldn't agree with me. Yep. Trade my life for you. We all would agree to that, right? And when I'm speaking to a family, to me, helping a family with ADHD, I could do that quite frankly in my sleep, right? But for that family, it is a crisis and they need me to be like, this is a crisis for you and I'm going to help you through it. I could get off that phone call and get on with the family whose kid's in an ER with their One, he has suicide attempt, hanging on for dear life. That's a crisis. And to both those families, it's the same level of crisis. And they both need the same energy and same attention from me as the other.

Yes.

That's what I try to do. If it's appropriate, I'm happy to share, hey, I got you. I've done this personally and I've done it for 30 years. With every kind of situation you could imagine. Kids from 3 to, and we're with adults, 50 and 60 years old. We can help anybody and they need to feel like they're the only client on the planet. And that's what we do.

So speaking of that, I'm wondering if we could just like back up just a little bit because not everyone understands what an educational consultant is. In fact, that is something that oftentimes we don't learn what it is until we are in crisis. So what is an ed consultant and what are all the different things that someone might come to you for?

Yeah, it's a great question. And it's interesting because I think most people, when they hear the term educational consultant, they think of one or two things. They think of a college consultant.

Yep.

And it would not be unusual for you to know somebody who worked with a consultant to help through the college process. The other reason that you might think of the term educational consultant is if your child has a learning disability and you want to hire a tutor and they are educational consultants. They are helping with the educational process because your child has some whatever, they're struggling with dyslexia or they are a little bit behind in math and you want to strengthen. So you might hire an educational consultant.

Right.

We do a number of things and as educational consultants, we work with families who are as traditional can be. They're not only looking at college, but they're looking at boarding schools. They're looking at private schools. They're trying to decide if public or private is the right thing for them. They're looking at junior boarding schools. They're trying to understand SSATs and ICs and, right, the whole alphabet soup of very traditional schooling. And that may even touch upon some learning disabilities. My kid is struggling with dyslexia or dysgraphia or ADHD. I'm struggling in the school with the school district in my public school or my private school, and I need some help. Educational and clinical consulting means we work with families that are facing some kind of a challenge, and that can be struggling in preschool or struggling in college and everything in between. It can be educational. It can be social-emotional. It can be academic. It can be behavioral. It can be familial, right? It can be about relationships and how those things intersect. Well, because nothing comes without a pair. They all come in pairs. So if you're struggling with ADHD, you may also have anxiety. Typically, it always comes with a something else. Heather Hester, part of the reason we're here today. We work with families who, and I know you and I've had this conversation, you're not coming to me because your kid is gay and has ADHD or is depressed. You're coming to me because your kid is depressed and perhaps they're gay and they're struggling with being accepted as a gay male or gay female, or because they're trans or the LGBTQ issue, gender dysphoria, whatever it might be, is secondary to what else is going on for them, but equally important for us to understand when we're trying to help you come up with creative solutions. Talking to an educational or clinical consultant or placement specialist— there's a number of terms used— so many people say, I didn't even know you existed. And there are quite actually a lot of educational consultants across the board. Available, and for some reason people really don't know the core of what we do and how many different ways we can help. And something I think is super important, Heather, I think people are under the impression that if you come to an educational consultant for a clinical or social-emotional reason, that the first thing we do is say, oh my God, your kid needs to go to treatment. That could not be further from the truth. And that's not to say there aren't kids who don't go to Wilderness or don't go to treatment. There are plenty of kids who don't need a higher level of care. Most of the time we wanna have a conversation about what somebody needs and how we can put that into place of what we refer to as community-based or clinical case management. We want you to have the resources in your home. Now, if your child or adolescent or young adult is struggling, in such a way that they require more intensive treatment, we can talk about what that might look like for them. And it's different for, for everybody.

Yeah.

But believing is not like, oh my God, you know, you're gonna call an aid consultant and they're gonna tell you your kid has to leave. No, that is not, it just cannot be further from the truth. Let's dispel the myth.

Thank you. Thank you for saying that because I think that is such a fear of people that they're like, First of all, I don't know what I need, but second of all, I've heard these 5 horror stories and I can't do that, or I can't afford that.

The treatment is very expensive, whether it's locally resourced or treatment outside the home. Many clinicians locally no longer take insurance. Many clinicians are not seeing people in person. They're just seeing them virtually. Can be a challenge for people with learning disabilities, with neurodivergence, with anxiety. Those can be challenges. I have had cases where the family has insisted they must see someone in person and they live in this very remote, very challenging area for me to get somebody within a 45-minute radius. Yet I can get them the most perfect clinician on the planet virtually. And the family is absolutely not. It has to be a person. And we're having a conversation then about we may have to expand your radius as to what you're willing to drive and travel to. And it's like, because needs, wants, and available, and how much does it cost?

A lot of, a lot of factors. Oh my goodness. I am wondering if. We could talk a little bit about what you see as some of the biggest challenges facing specifically LGBTQ+ students and parents in today's education environment.

Yeah.

As well as we look forward 6 to 12 months. And I know there's a lot of different things that are riding on that and it depends, and I would love to hear your thoughts.

Yeah, I think something that we've seen a significant rise in, and I feel like the whole world changed at COVID, but as I think about my clients anyway, and the conversations I'm having, I'm seeing far more students that are identifying as LGBTQ. And not, I don't, maybe it's 'cause I'm old, I don't know. For me, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say I'm not just talking about just being gay like that. Yes, you're obviously LGBTQ, but I'm talking about kids that are, no, I'm bisexual. No, I'm identifying as other, nonconforming. I'm identifying female, born female, but identifying male and not necessarily even wanting to talk about hormones or surgeries. They just say, I'm, I identify male. I wanna use his/her pronouns. End of story. I see a lot of confusion amongst straight people on how to interact with an LGBTQ community. I see parents, I see parents that really struggle. When they're having that conversation with us, like the words are like sticking in their mouth. They're uncomfortable, but they're like, we know we're supposed to be okay with this. So we're saying the things. And then we have other families that are like, you will use these pronouns when you speak to my child. And we're like, yes, okay. We understand. We are very friendly here at Listen Education Group. You're confirming. We get it. It's a lot. They're so defended. In making sure that their child's rights are going to be met. It's so interesting. You have to remember, I talk to a lot of people in a day or in a week, so I could see all of those things literally in a week. But there are so many more. I, again, I use COVID as like my dividing line. I feel like pre-COVID, you know, somebody was trans, somebody was identified on their And then after COVID, it's every other phone call is somehow connected to an LGBTQ story. And even things like, not just the kids, right? Parents got divorced and dad came out as gay. What are we doing with that? And how does that impact the student? It's not just about the kids. It's also about the family. Kids with two moms, kids with two dads. Once we start really getting into treatment, the kid is straight, kid male, he/him, straight kid, but has two dads. And all of a sudden we're learning, even though they grew up in this obviously very open home, they have things that they're struggling with because how they were treated. At school or when they went to someone's house or, and we learn about why is this kid depressed? What's going on? And then all these things. And of course the fathers are like, what?

What?

How could that be? We could get into a whole conversation about society, but that's another whole conversation. But these are the things kids are dealing with. Families are dealing with when we talk about an LGBTQ community and acceptance on so many levels for so many reasons. Yeah. But I've seen more of it.

That makes a ton of sense. That is a very wise way of looking at the before COVID and after COVID, because I think there are so many things that is another episode all on its own. But the self-reflection alone that people had the time to do. And so I think that definitely lends to why so many more people of all ages came out.

Like, well, time on social media, more time, all the things. Could we make an argument for, has it become more acceptable? All, there's a surge in adolescents coming out. Is it because we as a society have become more acceptable? More accepting, or is it that it's just they themselves, like that generation is caring less about what society thinks and they're like, yeah, here I am, take it or leave it.

I think personally it's a little of both. Just having kids who are in that generation, I think that it also speaks to, we are seeing so many of our LGBTQ kids with struggling with depression and anxiety and all of these co-occurring issues. And I think that lends itself to, while it may be a very small group out there, I think that the majority of humanity, at least in America, is yeah, they're humans, they're I know someone, right? My kid, my friend, my aunt, whatever. And they're humans. We love them. But there is a very small, very loud group that is making life very difficult. And I think that causes a ton of stress and that manifests in a lot of different ways. So I think we're, that's where we're seeing, at least my opinion of just standing from what I do and what I'm seeing and who I work with. So I think I, I like having your perspective working with a much broader group of people because I think that I have a very niche group. So I'm seeing this, right? All the time. So it is helpful to have this broader.

Yeah.

People are more than what we realize. They are affirming people.

Yeah. I find in my everyday life. And maybe it's because, look, I have two gay brothers that are— two gay brother-in-laws that are married. So my four brother-in-laws, ultimately. I have a daughter that's bisexual. It's just, that's just how we live, right? I remember in elementary school making a comment to his little, whatever, 8-year-old friends, and he was like, my uncles sleep in the same bed together. It was just so normal in our house. It just was the norm. Like it just didn't matter to us. That was just our life. We have, my stepfather was African American. Like I'm Jewish. My husband was, is, you know, Christian. We just had all the things. And my kids were like, I always say, you know, like my kids are colorblind. My kids like don't know these things. So in my everyday life, I feel like. People are pretty accepting. And I know, like, personally, if somebody makes a comment about a particular religion or a particular skin color or ethnicity or being gay or makes a comment, I am immediately like, there, here comes Mama Bear. Tread lightly before you speak in front of me because I do have something to say about this, right? Like, I'm, in my mind, I'm defending not just my own personal family members, but I'm defending everyone that they represent.

Right.

I'm not okay with people talking disparagingly around me in my personal life. I understand that we live in a world where people have opinions, but I think in my own personal life, I obviously select friends that are probably more like-minded to me.

Correct. And there's a difference between I hate pizza and I hate gay people. One is an opinion and one is hate speech. Yeah.

I don't understand it. I don't because I, my brain doesn't work that way. So I honestly, if I hear somebody making a derogatory comment about gay people or about trans people, I'm just like, I don't understand. Like, you can choose to not have relationships with a trans person because it makes you uncomfortable. And really, that's what we're talking about, aren't we? You're uncomfortable, so you have to say bad things. That's really what it boils down to, is other people's discomfort. Oh, yeah. Yes. Okay. I, I respect the fact that you're uncomfortable. Do you wanna have a conversation about why you're uncomfortable?

Yeah, exactly. Yes. Yes.

And yes.

Why does it have to be black and white? So all trans people are like the spawn of the devil because you are uncomfortable.

You're taking something that's here, I'm uncomfortable, and I, spawn of the devil is like not even on my screen. Right? That is, that's where I'm like, what are we doing? Like, these are human beings and I, going back, like, I have family members who think this way. So while I don't understand it, I also am like, but I do. So I, it's very frustrating for me because I'm like, these are humans. We are talking about human beings. I had to derail the conversation there a little bit. I'm sorry. Oh, well, but clearly something that we could go on and on about. But I do want to shift back to talking about and all of this amazing work that you're doing, because I'm, I think I had shared with you a very long time ago, and I've talked about it like very briefly in, on, on the podcast and everything, but our, the only experience that I've had with an ed consultant was very scarring for me and for my family. And so I was like, since you and I met, I've been like, why didn't I know Jodi? Because you are like night and day from the experience.

I had.

And so that is, I've, it's so important for me for people to know, not only understand exactly what you do and all the breadth of these services that you offer and the things that you can help people with, but really how like you are constantly like learning and shifting and growing with what is going on. Yeah. In the world because you're not working with just like your small local community. You're, you're working with anyone who—

that's right.

Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah. And I appreciate your recognizing that because I think like in any business, and I mean, I hate to make it right, cuz what we do is so personal. I hate to even say the word business. Yeah. But you look. When you're looking for, honestly, let's make it really like you're looking for a hairdresser, right? You're looking for an optometrist. You're looking for a psychiatrist. Pick us something, right? You have choices. There are people that are, are mediocre hairdressers. There are people that are amazing hairdressers. How do you know the difference when you book that appointment, whether you're getting a mediocre hairdresser or a great hairdresser? Right? Have you done some research? Do you know what their training is? Do you know how many years they've been a hairdresser? And we can apply this to psychiatrists, oncologists, you know, you have cancer. How do you know that your doctor is like the doctor is like the guy, like, or the girl to go, like, how do you know? Or is it just someone told you, hey, I have a great hairdresser. Hey, I know my cousin had cancer. And this doctor was amazing. Like, how do you really know? And I'm actually glad that I do sort of a wide variety from a cancer to hairdresser in this, right? Because we're consultants. We're certainly not saving the world, curing cancer. But what we do is important. And what we do is so personal to a family. It's true that we, myself and my team. Spend a lot of time, 30 to 40% of our time traveling the country. We're attending conferences. We're constantly learning. We're, we are going and visiting schools and programs and hospitals and anything that may have to do with helping our clients from the most traditional to the least traditional and whatever may be going on in between. Am I going to conferences on LGBTQ? Am I going to conferences on anxiety? And am I going to conferences on trauma? Am I going to conferences on ADHD in today's educational landscape and working with neurodiverse? I'm doing all of those things and everyone on my team is dedicated to doing that. And we've worked with quite literally thousands of families cumulatively across 6 of us in the practice, but me, myself, over 30 years, I've worked with thousands of families just myself in a variety, and I have my own personal experiences with my kids. So when you call us and have that conversation and we say, we want to take the time to get to know you, we want to have a consultation. We want to take our time in getting to know you before you just agree to work with us. And you maybe talk to somebody else. Or you get a recommendation from somebody else. Look, the reality is, and this is probably not the most popular thing to say, but I, if you know me at all, you know that I speak the truth and I'm just saying what I think. There are plenty of ed consultants out there that just hung a shingle. There are plenty of ed consultants out there, quite frankly, you could go find a hairdresser that just left beauty school 2 days ago and will charge you $150, just like the hairdresser that's been doing it for 30 years and is charging $150. So if you don't really understand who you're hiring and what they're bringing to the table, just because Susie Smith told you that person was a great ed consultant, you have to do your own due diligence and really understand who we are and what we do. I have some great colleagues out there that I would recommend in a heartbeat. But there are plenty, just like any other business, again, I need to use the word, there are plenty of people out there that'll gladly tell you that they know what they're doing and that they can help you and unfortunately have an experience like you've had.

And I love that you just said that, do your own due diligence. And I hope that this, you know, one of the things that this episode helps people with is like recognizing that. You and people like you are available so that you have the, give yourself the space to really do the research. We were in a crisis situation. Our pediatrician who I loved at the time was like, this is who you call. That is who we called. That's where we went. That is like, we did not even, yeah, have the capacity to be like, should we like Oh, 3 other people. And how do we find these people?

Like, and I'm one. I'm 3 people that do have those. They tell me, my pediatrician told me to call you, my psychiatrist, my— I like to think my people that are referring to me do so because they know the work we do. And we are staying connected to the— if your pediatrician recommended you to me, I'm staying in touch with your pediatrician about the work I'm doing with you. So they know my work, then tell them what it looks like. And when they talk to you, you're going to say, oh my God, Jodi was amazing. Exactly what she did for our family. This is what we're doing right now. And they're like, they're going to say to you, oh yeah, I know because she emailed me or she texted me or she called me to let me know.

Yes. That's—

but you wouldn't have known that up front.

Exactly. But I feel like this is, this is such important information for people just to stick in the back of your head. And really just even do your due diligence now and just know that this is an option. This is something that is, is a resource that is available and that is so incredibly, you have such a wide breadth of services that you offer and that you do. I think that's a little bit, maybe not unusual, but I don't know of ed consultants who do as much as you do, but have the experience. Experience and the knowledge in the number of areas that you do. So I really appreciate that so much. I just, I'm delighted that we've had this conversation.

We built, or I built the practice that way intentionally, that we could work with families therapeutically or clinically, that we could work with families very traditionally. We could work with families with learning challenges or learning struggles. We could work with families with mental health. Or substance or other process addictions or some combination, right? We could work with really young kids or we could work with not just young adults, but we could also work with like into adulthood, um, as well. And I do that not only because of my experience over many years of working with that breadth of client, but each of the consultants that are in my practice only specialize in one of those areas. And so when you work with us, you work with me and another consultant. You get a team. Sometimes you'll end up working with 3 of us because you may also need special education advocacy. You may also need a 504 or an IEP or seeking reimbursement from your district or all of those things. That's another whole thing too. Should I do public or private? And oh, by the way, I need an IEP. You end up working with a couple, more than two, or there may be three of us, but you essentially have a team of people dedicated to working with you when you work with us, which I think is unusual. We're one of very few firms that offer special education advocacy. Interesting when we're talking about special education advocacy as it relates to LGBTQ and bullying in a school system. That's another little interesting piece because we have to consider if the kid is accessing and benefiting from their education. And if they're not able to be in a class and if they're constantly being bullied at school, there's action to be taken there as well. Yeah, but I, we're one of the only consulting firms that do a combination of special education advocacy along with all of the other things that we can offer a family. Sometimes we're offering advocacy to a very traditional family as well. You can have ADHD and still need an IEP.

Right. There are a lot of reasons that you would need an IEP, and it is no small feat to get one. An IEP or a 504.

Yeah, a lot more difficult.

It's not small. It is very difficult. I've had to do that with two of my kids, and that's it's, that's like a full-time job for a while.

Yeah. Back in the day, I worked for a special education attorney for about 3 and a half years. And that was part of how I got over $5 million from our school district to cover my 2 kids' special education care outside of the district that I live. And how I paid for having a lawyer was working for the lawyer. And I worked for the lawyer for 3 years completely free. I didn't get paid a dime and I did all of the special ed law research. I helped prepare for mediation, for hearings. I attended every single meeting that attorney attended in a school district, in a classroom, everything, everywhere they went, I went with them. That's amazing. Yeah. And that was how I, I, and they represented me. I was able to get my kids' treatment completely paid for. Because I had an attorney that I worked for while I absorbed all this knowledge. And quite honestly, you'll laugh. I laugh when I tell the story now. She sat me down at the diner one day and said to me, you need to go out and do this on your own. You can't work here anymore. And I said, you don't pay me. You can't fire me.

That's right.

I was like, that's not how that works. I do this for free. I like helping people. And like, this is a good, this works out well. And she was like, no, you need to go and have your own, go do this. And I said, no one is ever going to hire me to do this for them. And she said, you no longer work here. You need to go. You go start a business and go tell people that you will help them and you will charge them. And I was like, you're out of your mind. And that was how my business was started.

That is amazing. True story.

I love that.

That is awesome. Yeah. Amazing.

I was like, you're crazy. No one's ever gonna hire me.

This isn't a thing.

No, no. Like, I'm a Creole. Like, I just do all your stuff. And she was like, no, just go. Yeah.

That's funny. Oh my gosh. That is so good. I'm glad she fired you.

I know, me too. Yeah, I'm still friends with her and she's amazing. She's still working and yeah, it's—

the world is a better place for that. Oh, for sure.

All right.

I want you to tell people, I will have everything, all of your info in the show notes and on my website and all the things. In fact, you're already linked on my website. However, I would love for you to tell people, this is like your 2 minutes of Who are you? How can people find you? What do you offer?

So my name is Jodi Liston. We are the Liston Education Group. We are on Facebook. We are on Instagram. We are on YouTube, certainly on LinkedIn. You can find us in all those places, Liston Education, or you can visit us on the web at listoneducation.com. We'd love to have you subscribe to our newsletter or follow us on all of the channels. Pop on our website and read our blog posts. Heather Hester, you're featured in my most recent blog post. Talking about Parenting with Pride, the book, and with a link to our terrific conversation that you and I had just a few weeks ago about the book. And you can call our office, you can fill out a form on our website and we'll immediately get right back to you to just have— we provide a free, completely complimentary 30-minute call to everybody who is interested in knowing more and gives us the opportunity to learn more about what's going on as well. So. Send in the form or give a call, call the office, and we're happy to set up a time to learn more about what's going on for a family.

Amazing. Amazing. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Jodi. Thank you so much for being here today. And I will just give a little teaser that Jodi and I will be talking again soon about a very important topic. We will be doing suicide awareness and prevention here in a couple of months. So stay tuned and be looking forward to hearing Jodi again.

Yeah, such a pleasure. Thank you for having me, Heather. I love the conversation, both past and present, and looking to the future.

Me too.

I am so glad you over here today. There is a lot going on right now, and I hope this episode brought you comfort, helped you feel more informed, and empowered you to be the next ripple, whether that is through renewed connection with your child, a friend, your community, or out in the world. Reach out if you have a question you'd like for me to answer in an upcoming episode. Join others in community on my Patreon Patreon and share this podcast. Liking, rating, sharing, and reviewing all help get More Human, More Kind in front of others who need to know that they are not alone. And right now, that is no small thing. Remember to take breaks, big breaths, hug your kids, and tell someone how much you appreciate them. Until next time.