How Parents and LGBTQ Allies Can Reclaim Meaning, Energy, and Time

Welcome to Just Breathe. I am so happy you are here. I hope that you have been taking care of yourself and your loved ones, that you have been resting and enjoying time doing the things that bring you peace, that you have turned down the volume on the political chaos because it is only meant to exhaust you. Right now is the time to take a breath, to do your inner work, to learn how to expand your capacity, and most of all, to titrate your news intake. Everything that is happening right now is meant to make you feel anxious and on edge, but please keep in mind, not everything is a 5-alarm fire. They want us to feel that way because everything outrageous that has come from them They hope to dull your senses, and most of all, they want you to tune out. That is what we cannot do. So while we are in this limbo stage, let's take the time to rejuvenate, to spend time with people we love, to visit the places that bring us joy, to fill our souls. Because there will be work to be done, and we all need to be ready. To that end, I will be taking a break to just breathe and be present with my family and really enjoy this time of year that typically brings so much magic. In a few days, I will be posting a playlist of the top episodes of 2024 for your listening and sharing enjoyment. But before I do that, I want to share today's guest, who is an absolute delight and someone I felt was a kindred spirit from the moment we met. Arantxa Savas is a well-being and leadership coach who created a uniquely holistic and proven approach to coaching that blends practical, science-backed techniques with energy coaching. She shares with such a vulnerability that just draws you in, and I am so happy to bring you our conversation.

Welcome back to Just Breathe. I am so happy you all are here today, and I'm really thrilled for you to, to be part of this conversation that I get to have with this wonderful person that I just met or was introduced to by a mutual friend, and we have just found that we have so many things in common and have had such a fun time connecting and sharing. And so I'm really thrilled for you to meet Arantxa today and get to know more about the beautiful things that she is doing in the world. So we're just going to jump right in and I want to talk first and learn more about— you have this amazing podcast. The Uplifters, which I get to be a guest on, and I'm so honored that you asked. But I wonder if you could share a little more about, about the podcast in and of itself, but in the greater sense, the, the why did you start this and what are you wanting this to create in the world?

Thank you so much for having me. It is such a joy to connect with inspiring women who are led by purpose like you. And to get to spend this time with you, it's just such a joy on every level. And I guess that's really the whole answer to why I created The Uplifters. So The Uplifters podcast is designed to support and celebrate women of purpose. So when I say that, I'm talking about women from all walks of life who are living with bravery, and who are really on a mission to make a positive impact with their lives. And so I get to talk to women who are trailblazers, who are perhaps the first to ever have done what they've done, to everyday women who in their little communities, they are creating ripples of impact. And I just deeply believe that women especially have the power to change the world. And there's incredible research that shows that the people we spend the most time with have a direct correlation of our own experience. And I think that's especially true for the courage with which we live. And so I've spent my life on, on a mission to surround myself with really inspiring, courageous women, believing that I'm going to be better because the people I'm with make me better. But I also found that I was curious about the women who were inspiring the women who inspired me. And so I created the Uplifters podcast as a chain of inspiration. And so each guest recommends a woman who inspires her, and then I get to talk to them and learn from them and share them with all the other uplifters. And we've just formed this incredible community of women who are So diverse and so unique, and yet we share common values. And on the surface, you think, how could these women have anything in common? And yet, as you hear our stories, you find that these are women who find value and strength and community, who care about leaving a positive impact, who care about their own personal growth, who care about learning, and we lift each other up. And it's that old saying, all tides rise together. And so we are really collectively forming a tidal wave that is having huge impact on stages that are both massive and very tiny and intimate.

Oh, I love that. That is— it is one of the most beautiful. I've talked, I get, I get the privilege of talking to a lot of people and I just think it is such a lovely selfless act to, for you to see this as something that is important, that was important and needed in the world and to create this wonderful movement. So I really appreciate that. I wonder if you could share, because you get to talk to so many beautiful people, a couple of the, like, the most interesting or the most inspiring stories of where they get their courage, where they get their, like, that bravery to use their voice or to act on what their purpose is.

Yeah, the stories are what keep me going too. And one of the most moving to me is a woman named Helen Arteaga. Gallanda Verde, and she came to this country from Ecuador as a young girl with her parents who were both activists and really mission-driven folks. And they moved here with big dreams and a big desire to have positive impact. And yet there was a lot they didn't know about this country and the way it operated. So Helen's father unfortunately got cancer early on in their time in America, and the public services available to them without insurance, without good medical care, were really limited. And unfortunately, he died at NYC Health and Hospitals Elmhurst. And throughout his life, however short, he managed to impart to his daughter that you can't change the world, but you can change your block. And Helen really took this to heart. And so she decided after her father passed and she got through high school, she went to college and she said, you know what, I'm gonna get a degree in public policy and I'm gonna learn how to help folks with healthcare. And while there, she came to understand that she could have a more immediate impact by starting a health center that directly targeted first-generation Americans who are non-English speaking. In a neighborhood in Queens called Elmhurst, which is the most— one of the most diverse neighborhoods in America. And she, through her advocacy there, actively and directly, they changed the health trajectory and lifetime expectancies in that neighborhood. Oh, then the pandemic came along, and I'm sorry, it's a bit of a long story, but it's just too good not to share.

Yeah.

During the pandemic, Helen decided to stay open. And the pandemic was a very different thing for us in New York than it was for a lot of places. It was not the flu early on. We ran past every morning lines and lines of freezer trucks because there were too many bodies to house in site spaces. And, um, it— a crisis in every sense of the word. And people were dying batheminut, because we didn't know how to treat this disease. But Helen and her team decided to keep their doors open at their little clinic to serve this community because they had to. And of course Helen got COVID and it was still in the early days before they understood anything about treatment where it was very likely that she would die. She had to be admitted to NYC Health and Hospitals Elmhurst where her father died. And the people there treated her with extraordinary care and diligence and saved her life. And then a few months later, they went on a search for a new CEO. And unsurprisingly, because of her track record, Helen was hired. And so she is now the first female, the first Latin American to lead a hospital in NYC, one of the NYC Health Hospitals. And she is now having extraordinary impact as a result of that work and has been named to the best health— NYC Health Hospitals. And so I talked to— I talk about Helen's story because to me it is a story of a woman on a mission, being responsive to the needs of the people around her. And I hear that so often from these stories, these women who see a need and they don't walk in with an answer. They walk in with an intention, right? Which is to respond to the needs in whatever ways are most helpful. And so if you look at the stories we've collected, and there are now about 100 of them available, You will see in those story after story women who didn't say, I'm gonna solve the problem my way, I'm gonna fix things, but rather they said, I'm gonna listen and respond, and I'm going to do what needs to be done for the sake of the people that I care about. And again, that's a community as small as one family all the way to millions of people.

Like Helen. Oh, that is amazing. And I think what I love about that, and I think what is definitely woven through probably most of these stories, is that there was never a moment of— in Helen's case specifically, but I think through a lot of these stories— of thinking, oh gosh, I'm scared, or I can't, or this is too hard. Or there's their, like anything that was like self-focused. It was all like, I see something that needs to be done, that needs attention, that needs something. And I'm, I am going to go. That is best.

I thought that too, Heather. But this is what's been really reassuring about this. And I will say, with the exception of the Trailblazers who are truly like some of the One of the first women I interviewed was the first female, first openly gay, first Black woman to be a pilot at a US commercial airline. Another was the first female to play professional basketball in Canada. Those women are really wired differently. They really— I'm fascinated. Kathrine Switzer, the first woman to run the Boston Marathon with a bib. They are uniquely wired. And I think they are aligned with what you're saying, that they are so focused on the goal that fear just doesn't seem to really enter their scope. The other 97 women, though, did it with fear. They did it with doubt. They did it with worry. And including Helen, she was— she has the same fears you and I do. Of not enoughness, of being judged, of being seen as not ready or capable or smart enough or well-resourced. And that to me is so reassuring.

It is.

It is because it says, okay, you can do this.

Yeah.

Just keep going. Keep going. And almost on those days when that fear is really loud, when that, the doubt is right in your face, keep going.

Keep going.

Yeah.

I'm reading the book Bravy right now by Alexi Pappas, and she disting— it's so good. If you don't know her, she's an Olympic runner who overcame severe depression right after her Olympic turn. And she's a filmmaker, designer, just really remarkable young woman. And she talks a lot about the distinction between being merely interested in dreams and being committed to dreams. And so the committed person, when things get hard, and they will, the committed person keeps showing up. But the difference really is the interested person gets overwhelmed by the fear and lets that take lead.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That, oh, that is such a great way of stating that. Yes. Because the fear can be, it can freeze or it can inspire.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It can stop us or it can energize us.

Yeah.

That's right.

Yeah. That's right. So this, speaking of which, all of these beautiful people that you've had the opportunity to speak with has inspired you to create a place once a year, this beautiful event. Could you tell us a little bit about it?

Oh my gosh. So much joy. Like you, I really like people and I find them just— they're just my juice. And I like to be with people in real life, and I like to introduce people, which you probably already realized. Like, it just— what?

No way.

I know, crazy town. I like to connect people, and I like to see ripples of moments of connection, and that's really what we've been able to do. So this will only be year 2. In March, we'll have our second event. I hope we have many more. I hope this is something that way outlasts. But what we've done is we've created a day called Uplifters that brings together our extraordinary guests with our extraordinary audience of uplifters for a day of connection, celebration, and mutual support. And so it is a day where we can deepen our sense of connection, where we can celebrate the value and power of warmth over cool. Does so much of the world fetishize cool?

Yes.

I'm like, yes, I don't want more cool. No, I want more warmth and I want more honesty and more vulnerability and I want more deep connection and I want more real. And I think most of us do.

Yeah.

And so we just create a day together where that is the version of ourselves that we choose to walk into the room is because it feels like a brave space. Where we can safely be honest and true and open. And the connections that come from that day are like nothing I ever could have dreamed. And these women leave with a greater knowing about themselves and each other, with deep friendships, fired up to go do bigger, braver work in the world. And I so hope you'll join us in March because it's going to be amazing.

I will be there. I will be there.

So just, I, as soon as we talked the last time, I looked it up and I was like, oh yes, I am going. I am so excited. I think it just, it, we all need a place like that where if just for a day, we can come and be surrounded by people who are inspiring, who are perhaps like-minded, who are interested. And interesting and, and just the opportunity. And I think this kind of works into, to other things that you do as well, that focus on taking care of ourselves and not just in that like surface sense, but of that like deep self-care. And I think most of us are pretty good at the, the high level, like I ran and got a manicure today. Yes. And. No, I am a huge fan. Love my manicures. And that deeper— oh, that's where the warmth comes from.

Yes.

So I wonder if you could talk about that a little bit, because we were talking about that before we started recording and there's some good stuff in there.

Oh, thank you. Yeah. So many thoughts on this. I love that you bring up the manicure and it is a really sweet moment of self-care for many people, but it's occasional. Maybe it's every couple of weeks, but I believe that the most vital self-care happens many times every day and that it is a moment-by-moment practice. And it really influences how we show up in every part of our lives. And I talk about it a lot as MET mastery. And so MET stands for meaning, energy, and time, right? And when we are able to reclaim our own sense of meaning, our energy, and our time, we have a greater sense of fulfillment and joy and a greater ability to sustain the good work we wanna do in the world. We've probably all felt a sense of exhaustion and overgiving at times in our lives. And certainly the women I talk to experience this frequently, and it's something I've experienced to my own life because I like to help. I like to be good. I like to be useful. And yet I think for so many of us, we are so driven by that sense of usefulness and goodness that the person we end up draining ourselves is this— empties the source. And so I use the word MET because I worked in healthcare for a lot of years and wellness. MET in science stands for metabolic equivalent of task. And so it's a fancy way of measuring how much energy you're burning when you're doing anything. And for many uplifters, we're burning METs without replenishing them. And so what I really help people to do is to replenish those meds, to, as I said, reclaim their meaning, their energy, and time. And it makes so much sense, right? Like, I heard Elizabeth Gilbert say yesterday that the greatest harm she's done in her life was the result of not taking care of herself. And I think that's true for most of us. And I think we've probably all felt it, no matter how good our intentions are, we have those moments slippage where it's like you're snarky or unforgiving with the people you love most, or find yourself having an outsized reaction to something that's out of sync with what you really feel and believe. I believe that's because we're depleted.

Yes, we're tired.

And I see those little slippages, as I call them, I see those as evidence and like a little nudge from our lives and like the kind that the sooner we recognize it, the better off we are, that say, oh, hey, Aranzaz, I think maybe you aren't taking care of yourself. And I, this happened this week with my daughter. I led an Uplifters retreat a couple of weeks ago and it was amazing, but I really poured my body and soul into it. And then because we're in the midst of moving and I host a podcast and I've got two and a husband and a dog and my mom lives here and all this stuff going on. I just rolled back into the everyday without taking a minute to say, okay, what am I, what do I need?

How am I?

And I started to notice, like my daughter asked me for help with her Halloween costume. And it was like, I did the one thing and I was like, okay, yay. I feel so good. I had a Goodwill miracle and found exactly what I wanted for the Halloween costume. But then she asked me for one more thing. And I don't know about you, but there's like that one more thing that's like a trigger for me where it's like, yeah, oh, I'm not done. I got to show up for another person in another way. And I didn't— my response wasn't like earth-shattering. She probably won't remember it, but she felt it. And I felt it. It was something to the effect of, oh, I don't know, I'll get to that later. That's not very hurtful in the grand scheme of things. But we both knew that I was not coming from a place of abundance. I wasn't coming from a place of meaning and energy, and I felt like somebody was trying to steal my time and I was feeling tapped out.

Yeah.

And so now I recognize those things before I get shitty, which I've certainly done plenty of times in my life. And those are my signs, right? Little things like that that I'm like, oh, Girl, you gotta take care of you or you're not gonna be who you are in the world. And so it really comes down to a few key practices. Number one, it's real self-care, right? And it's showing up for yourself with as much integrity as you show up for everyone else. And I talk about it as like really putting yourself at the center, not to be self-centered, but to center your needs.

Right.

And to recognize them. Right. And giving yourselves tiny daily luxuries. I call them TDLs, or, and sometimes I call them like your bliss list, but it's actively like I teach women to make a list of things that feel really good, whether it's helping you self-stress detox, whether it's just helping you relax, whether it's helping you be honest with yourself, explore your own creativity. But these are ultimately, they're energy boosters. That counteract the energy drain of all that we can be putting back, putting out if we aren't restoring. The other thing I try to help people do is just understand themselves and really practice self-awareness as a part of a daily life, whether it's through little rituals that you practice day in, day out, whether it's your mindset, which is something we explore so much in the podcast. Like, what is the mindset of these women? How do some women seem to have more time and energy than other women. And I really think it is through understanding their own needs and learning how to show up for them. And then the last piece of this is, I think, for most women, the hardest, but it's self-expression. And it's honestly saying what we need. And it's, in my case, in this story I just shared, it was saying to my daughter, ooh, I don't feel great about the way I just responded to you. And I think it means that I need to go take some time for me. Because I don't want her thinking that was about her because it wasn't. She asked really nicely. She was being true to our agreement that I was going to help her with her Halloween costume. But if I'm not self-expressed, I find I get more seepage and leakage. And so it really is, as you see, like, none of these are things that like, I I can take care of once a week or once every 2 weeks, or it is moment by moment. So it really is a way of being versus anything that we do.

I love that distinction. I love that so much because it is, it's about the awareness and the ability to be really present and stay present. I think especially when we get overwhelmed or stressed, it's very easy to go into that, like, self-protective, like, mode where you can be, like, put some distance or some buffer or some whatever it is and whatever you want to call it. But, and it's a practice of being able to get to that place. This is not something that happens overnight. This is something that it's little, every time you do it a thousand times a day, you become more aware and you become more gentle with yourself. You give yourself more grace. And you're able to express it, put words with it, because I think it's also, that's a difficult thing to be able to say in the moment, recognize, oh, that was so not about you. I'm so sorry. I'm tapped out. I'm exhausted. I'm fill in the blank. I need a minute. And. And take that minute. I, it's such a powerful and my goodness, it is the best gift you can give yourself and all the people around you, but you know, for sure yourself, because then you do, the result is that you can show up the way you want to show up in the world. You don't hit that wall. I had that a few weeks ago. I, had a, I did a in-person talk out in California and it was a lot. It was a lot of different pieces that were firsts for me and they were all at once and it was just a lot. And, and San Francisco is a lot. And, and so when I got back, it was just a whirlwind trip and I got back and I was like, I just need a couple days. I literally cleared my calendar and I was like, I just need to be able to do the things that feel good for me, whether it was just writing, like I did all these different things, but I was like, this is how I need to show up for myself right now. And then I can, but it was to your point, like knowing what it is for you in those different moments, because different times ask for different types of self-care, but just getting to know yourself well enough to know.

Yeah.

Because we are high-capacity women and we know in a pinch we could keep going.

Oh, absolutely. But that doesn't mean we should.

Correct. Doesn't mean it's going to be the best long-term strategy.

Exactly. Exactly. I think we were talking about this the other day. The capacity to hold— this is true. This is also true, and this is also true. Yes, that is amazing and does take a lot of work to be able to get to that place. And it doesn't mean that we need to do it every day. I just, I think that's fantastic work. So do you do this work with private clients? Correct.

I do. I work with private clients. I work with a lot of corporate clients bringing this into women's ERGs, employee resource groups, to help I help high-impact, high-capacity women at companies, and it's like such a gift when companies have the wisdom to invest in their women leaders in this way. And honestly, I've done it with mixed teams too, because as much as I talk about women, I watch the same thing happen for my husband. Yes, I just happen to be a woman who was raised by a bunch of strong women, who's raising strong women, and So I, I feel a real calling to support women. Yeah, it happens to all of us.

Yeah.

And yeah, I have a video version of it where people can take the course and I do small group and individual coaching on Met Mastery. And then I've got a company. So it's really about reaching as many people as we can.

Yeah.

To help us all learn real self-care. I spent 20 years at Weight Watchers.

Yeah.

And I watched over and over again how these women, especially again, came in because they were feeling really bad in their lives and they would come in with a weight goal and the vast majority did not see success. And so often when you would talk to them about it, they'd say, and I'm paraphrasing 20 years of research here. They would say, I have trouble showing up for myself as well as I show up for everyone else. And those who did were transformed, not because their bodies were smaller, but because, A, they felt a greater sense of freedom in the world, and B, they learned how, paradoxically, to take up more space to self-advocate.

Yes.

And 25 years now into this career and into this work, for me it's very clear that weight is a symptom for many people of a challenge that plagues so many of us well beyond any other symptom, and it is a lack of awareness and practice in deep self-care.

Yes. That disconnection, right? Yes. That's a whole other conversation. Just actually, just listen to the episode that, that we did on uplifters because we talk a lot about that disconnection.

Yeah.

I'll plug that episode right now. Thank you. Of course. So I, speaking of strong women and you raising strong women, I wonder if we could, I'm watching our time really closely, but I'm wondering if we could talk a little bit because we realized when we started talking that we had more in common than we realized even to begin with. And I'd love for you to share a little bit about your daughters and about just some of your approaches to parenting. And you already have a little bit, but I'm wondering if you could share a little bit more because I think that people can really connect with that.

Yeah, for sure. One of the things that really excited me about your work is that you are creating space for— people talk about parenting queer children, but it's really about parenting with acceptance. And for us, I was raised with my grandmother, and it's been— she talks about how her grand— or her father The sort of foundational mindset of parenting was you raise children like you raise horses. And your job is to, and this is no joke, it sounds so like, what? But this was the prevailing narrative. Your job is to break their spirits and teach them to conform and follow the rules and play within the lines. My grandmother then was exposed to another parenting style, which is how she raised me, which is that your children should be treated like guests in your home. And it makes sense, right? From an evolutionary standpoint. And so having been raised like a broken spirited horse, she wanted to just lavish her children and let them be deeply cared for. We could go into all the socioeconomic pieces of this because she also was raised during the Great Depression and as a migrant farmer. And yeah, she really wanted to give her children every opportunity. And so for us, as we listened to all these narratives coming generationally to us, but also to those that were popular in our community at the time, for us, the only reasonable answer was to be responsive to our children. And we've gotten a lot of practice with that. Our children in some ways have been super lucky. They have two parents who deeply love each other and them. They've had a stable home environment. Their foundational needs have been met. They've been given a lot of love intergenerationally. And so they've been really lucky. On the other hand, they have really had to face their share of challenges. One of my daughters, and I speak about this with permission from her, from both girls, in fact, to share these stories, but I think they are important to share because I think they're stories that we don't talk enough about and therefore don't have awareness. So we can't consider how we might handle them, but our older daughter, When she was 12, participated in an after-school program and she was a quiet, shy kid, didn't have a lot of friends. And she was like really artsy. And so she got this karate teacher and we thought, wow, she's getting all this praise from this karate teacher. Sometimes she'd come home and she'd say this sort of weird things and we'd be like, that dude's a weirdo, but cool. She's getting praised for being good at karate. And he, she told us he one day was like, oh, you can't trust your teachers. Teachers are just in it for the money. We're like, I was like, that's insane, but whatever. And another day she came home and she was like, weirdest thing happened in karate. He, a kid like kicked me and then the teacher hit him so hard that he knocked him down. And I was, and she was like, it was cool that he like wanted to stand up for me, but doesn't that seem strange for a teacher to hit a student? And I was like, yeah, that's really weird. But still we're like, he's a teacher. Teachers are good. Things happen at school and our artsy shy kid. He's good at karate. And then the pandemic happened and we had to— we went to online learning. And one day she said, yeah, it's so weird. My karate teacher said, you guys don't care about me because you asked me to get a vaccine. And we were like, that's insane. Let's talk about it. And we did. And she was like, yeah, I agree. That's weird. Okay, yay karate. And then she told us one day, oh yeah, karate has been slowing down. Lots of kids aren't doing after-school lessons on Zoom, but my karate teacher asked me if I'd meet with him and keep going. And I was like, sure. Because we were so naive. We didn't recognize what probably you've already picked up on through these examples. This guy was grooming our kid. He was systemically alienating her from every other trusted adult.

Yeah.

It was ineffective because she was honest and trusted us enough to come to us with these stories, and so he wasn't able to separate her from other trusted adults to the degree that he was actively trying to do. We had no idea what he was doing. And we didn't see it because nobody's talking about this stuff. I literally have not heard these stories because I haven't talked about them either. And this is in fact the first time I'm sharing this story because it was only recently that my daughter and I agreed, at her urging, that the story needed to be shared. And it happened several years ago and she feels ready to talk about it and she wants me to talk about it. And what he did that finally opened our eyes is he asked her one day on Zoom in this private Zoom karate lesson to play a game with him that involved taking off their clothes. And she was a shy little girl and she was uncomfortable. And so he ask her to follow these commands that involved him or her taking off her clothes. She, in her shyness, did it very slowly and ultimately showed none of her body parts, but did unbutton her pants and then shoved her shirt in them to cover her tummy. Um, but he asked her to give him certain commands and he told her what to say to him. And ultimately he took off his clothes. And it was at that point that she realized she was out of her depth. And she told him, she used one of the commands to ask him to turn around. And as he turned around, she muted her camera and muted her audio and turned off her camera. And she said she opened her door. I happened to be working inches away from her at that moment because we were collaborating on a really fun project. And She said, "Mommy, I don't know what to do." And it was one of those moments, like in the movie, where all of the little pieces that didn't add up in any way, that were just like weird individually, but not anything beyond that instance together. And I saw in that moment exactly what was happening because I saw her little pants unbuttoned. And I knew she was in karate. And I walked in and I saw him on Zoom without his clothes on. And it was not prosecutable because he hadn't actually shown his penis. He'd taken off his shirt, he turned his pants into underwear. And he has been removed from New York City schools and is no longer able to teach. But these extraordinary efforts from our family and other experts and attorneys and many others in the legal field who were— and the police forces who were incredibly empathic and incredibly supportive and incredibly kind to us, it wasn't prosecutable. And that is the sad part of the story.

Yeah.

That my daughter experienced this, that we don't have systems in place. To protect kids in this way yet. But what I am proudest of, and it's— was that the longest answer to a simple question you've ever asked? I—

oh, it is a very important answer to a very— I knew what I was asking. I wanted this answer. I wanted you to share as much as possible.

What I was proudest of is in that moment, I said to Savannah instantly, honey, I am so proud of you. You are so brave.

Yes.

And I didn't blame her, and I didn't think for a second about incriminating her in any way or placing any of the responsibility on her. But even more than that, I am proud that we set the stage for our daughter to immediately come to us when she didn't know what to do.

Yes.

And this is a kid who is independent, who takes the subway systems all day, every day on her own, who navigates extraordinary complexities and work and life because of her own health challenges, because of the world we live in, because of the city we live in.

Yeah.

And yet she knew that when she didn't know, that she could trust us to advocate for her.

Yeah.

And it felt like the most important parenting decision I've ever made. To be able to say to my kid, I love you, I support you, I am here for you. And it's why I think when our own daughter, our own daughter, our other daughter, our younger daughter, decided that she was ready to come out of the closet— it's such an antiquated term, I don't know how I feel about it—

I love that you used that word.

She decided to acknowledge publicly her lesbianism.

Exactly.

Which I— we didn't live in a world— we live in New York City. There were always trans kids in class. There were always gay kids in class. We always watched gay movies that centered gay characters. So there wasn't a sense of I need to hide this in our family or in our home or in our city for that matter. Would have felt like the anomaly in this this, the unusual thing. So it wasn't that, but it felt like she was safe to trust us with her truth.

Yes.

And our kids are, they're newly 14 and 16, and they're going to face so many more complex decisions and they're going to face so many other challenges. And so for me, it has all just been this real validation to stay the course with creating a worthiness of trust.

Yes.

Because my kids are going to do stupid stuff. They're going to make decisions that harm their immediate best interests because they're human beings and we all do it.

Right.

And I want them to be independent and courageous. And I want them to know they have a safe place to land.

Absolutely.

And that's the only way I know how to do it.

Yeah.

Wow.

I'm so moved by this story and I think it is such an important story to share. So thank you for trusting me with this space to share. And it is very important for all of us to really take time to deeply consider that story because there are a lot of pieces to it. And, and like you said, you, without even really realizing it, you had already created a space. So I think that is a very key place or piece of this to consider the space that we're creating. And I think sometimes we overthink it in so many ways of it, of maybe perhaps material aspects of the space or the shoulds coming down from whether it's those who have gone before us or books that we are reading. And ultimately what it comes, this is, you have hit this, is that it's providing this brave space for them to be who they are, fully, authentically, vulnerably who they are, know that it is a safe place to make mistakes, know that we all make mistakes, right? That this is something that we talk about, right? That there isn't this any kind of expectation for a should, and That we are 1,000% trustworthy, that no matter what is said, we hold that space. That's our job.

Yeah.

And so thank you. Thank you for sharing that, for modeling that. And, and none of us are going to do it perfectly, but I think it is It's just so beautiful. And gosh, those are lucky girls.

I'm lucky.

Brave girls. And just thank them for allowing that to be shared because that is important work. And that's just one more way of creating a ripple. So yeah. Bravo.

Thank you.

Worse.

Here's to always finding pain and purpose in our pain.

Purpose in our pain. And yeah, exactly. And sharing it and sharing it if possible with such vulnerability. So thank you. I'm so grateful that you have been here with me today. Is there anything else that you would like to share? Heather Hester, I will share every way to reach you in the show notes, but is there anything else that you would like to share in addition to that?

Oh my gosh. Only that I think these women that I've had the conversations with on the Uplifters have given us unequivocal truths or unequivocal evidence Is unequivocal the word I want? Like indisputable. Let's go with indisputable. Indisputable evidence that we can find purpose in pain.

Oh yeah.

And that we are better prepared to create that purpose than we have any idea. And so for any of us who are feeling lost, or alone, I would just challenge you to find the courage to be honest and to use it as a jumping off point for connection with others, because there are so many people who will understand where you've been.

Yeah.

And who will want to learn alongside you.

Yes. It's a perfect way to end. Thank you so much. Thank you.