Pronouns, Politics, and Parenting: Fierce Allyship for Trans Youth

Welcome to More Human, More Kind, the podcast helping parents of LGBTQ+ kids move from fear to fierce allyship and feel less alone and more informed so you can protect what matters, raise brave kids, and spark collective change. I'm Heather Hester.

Let's get started. Welcome back, everyone. I am so, so delighted for you to listen in to these 3 amazing women that I have as guests on my show today. Um, and there's just so much to learn. So grab a pad of paper and a pen and be ready for some really awesome information. Kate and Jeannie and Jayna, I am so, so happy to welcome you onto Just Breathe. And I'm really looking forward to just your three different perspectives as well as, um, just tons of tips and strategies and great information. So I just wanna start right kind of at the top. You all three have written books and they are specific, but similar, same but different, right? So I'd love for each of you just to give a little bit of a why, why did you write the books that you wrote? And we can start, why don't we start with you, Kate, and then we can kind of flow from there.

Wonderful. So when I first began writing, I didn't realize I was writing a book. As a writer, I often put pen to paper to process big feelings, and my son realizing she was my daughter seemed like a big thing. So I had lots of feelings about it and began writing. And over time I realized that I was writing the book that I wished I had had when my daughter was transitioning. Not a prescriptive narrative per se, but kind of an affirming one with some humor, some candid conversation, heartfelt honesty, and lots, lots of heart. So thus Transistor: Raising Twins in a Gender-Bending World was Born, kind of like my third child.

Yeah, I understand the humor thing. We think very similarly in that way. I find humor, especially when things are tense and nerve-wracking, somehow breaks through, doesn't it? Jeanie, would you like to talk a little bit about The Savvy Ally?

Sure. Samezies, Kate, as far as this was the book that I wanted when I got started, exactly the same motivation there. I'm a straight cisgender ally to the LGBTQ+ communities, meaning I'm not part of the community. And I knew absolutely nothing when I got started. Zero. Had to ask what the initialism stood for. And so my book, The Savvy Ally, is the book that I wanted when I got started. It's basically a guidebook for how to be an ally to the LGBTQ+ communities. And I also, my goal also was to make it kind of light and kind of fun and, you know, use humor where it was appropriate. I think I'm funny. Hopefully other people do too, but We just have the same— I think humor really connects people. And so my book is not a heavy academic slog. It's, it's just really, I have some fun with it. I add pop quizzes and things like that, but it's really, it's not for people who aren't sure if they want to be allies. It's for folks who already know they want to be allies and they really just want the tools to know how to do that and how to be the best ally that they can be.

Which you did very, very well. As you know, that is one of my very favorites and it's been on my shelf since the beginning. And, you know, like the two of you, I wrote the book that I needed. So isn't that, isn't that interesting how we do that?

Mm-hmm.

Jayna, your book is a little bit different. You wrote your book in novel format. Um, so I'd love to hear a little bit about that.

Sure. Um, so the, yes, it's, uh, it's different. You would probably say if you've read it, that it's not lighthearted at all. Although I think there is humor in there. I certainly worked at it, but it's just perhaps subtle. It is a book, not that I needed when I was 10 or 20, but that the world needed. And so if I were to mix up these two questions a little bit, one of them was about how do you react to the increase in anti-trans legislation today? And I thought, okay. How do I express that simply? Well, these legislators are equivalent in my view to President Snow of The Hunger Games. I thought that was about the best analogy that I could come up with. And that's where they're taking us. So I think that, I think people until the last few years with the politics being where they are, people don't realize how close we were to having a socially sensible attitude toward gender identity, and we're moving backwards very, very rapidly as far as I can see. So the novel, I wrote a novel for many reasons because, um, as I put it, um, there are 3 reasons actually, emotion, emotion, and emotion. Uh, if the, a nonfiction book or memoir can, and then these are absolutely essential and we have 2 wonderful examples, but they can't tell you what the life is like. And obviously nobody can. Uh, we only get to, uh, live our own lives. I can't say what it's like to be a Black woman and a cisgender person can't say what it's like to be trans, but a good novel that puts you in the heart, head of the reader can come close. So that's the reason.

That is maybe the most well-said reason I've ever heard for that. I mean, that's really, I think that that makes me want to just run out and read it right now. My apologies for not getting it read before this.

That's very quickly.

So just everybody listening, it's on, it's on my, my list. And I'm so thrilled and I love words, Heather Hester, that you compared this legislation that's going on to President Snow. That is such something that's going to resonate with everyone and really talks about how frightening this is. And how do you think that your, you know, people reading your novel are going to say, like, how is that going to click for them?

So I think, let's see, how do we say, I just tried, I mean, it really, this was not a, this was not something that was planned. It came to me as something that I had simply had to do. In fact, I was just writing some notes to myself. I used to like tell stories to myself as I was going to sleep and then I would forget what I'd done the night before. And so I said, I'll just make a few notes and that turned into 40 single-spaced pages. And I, you know, sent it to somebody and they said, oh, this is wonderful, which I did not expect them to say, uh, because it had all the nasty parts in it. And, uh, so then I had to learn how to write a novel and being a scientist that, that took a little while. Uh, it, it, it's really, yeah, you know, you can't write everybody's experience is different. And so you have a character in a novel and their experience is unique. So it's not for everybody. And yet I think I did make an effort. To touch on the themes that pretty much every transgender person is going to encounter to some extent in such a way that you can see, you know, what we deal with.

You've humanized.

Yeah.

I mean, I think that's one of the biggest things that I've, that I see and it makes me so sad and angry is the dehumanization. And it sounds like that's exactly what your novel does. And thank you. I'm so grateful that you wrote that and that came to you and that you've kind of paid attention to those, those thoughts and notes that were coming to you as you fall asleep. I think we get some of our greatest ideas in those moments. I'm going to switch gears just a little bit and Jeanne, come to you and talk about a little bit about who allies are, why they're so important, especially right now.

Sure. I define ally broadly. So, you know, I think if we just look at a dictionary definition, we get something like an ally is a person who's not a part of a particular marginalized group, but who stands up for and advocates for the rights of people in that group. And when we think about trans folks, we're really focusing on transgender today, We are, you know, we specifically think, oh, well, allies must be the cisgender folks, the folks who are not part of that community. But I really like to go broadly with this in that, you know, if you're a white transgender man, you can be an ally to trans women of color who are marginalized and victimized in much different ways. So I really feel like there are roles for us all to play as allies because there's, there's subgroups within the groups and everyone's treated differently. And, and so I do want folks to think about it that way. But basically, I think allyship is so critical. I've got, you know, lists and lists, but I'll just share a few of my favorite reasons why I think allies are so impactful. One is that I think people are— most of the people who I speak to are really big-hearted people who want to do the right thing, and they're just scared to death to open their mouths. They're afraid they're going to mess up, they're going to accidentally offend someone. And if a transgender person is in the room and they know that, they're way less likely to, you know, ask a question that might be embarrassing, or, you know, maybe they're afraid they're going to use the wrong word or they're going to offend someone. Whereas if you're ally to ally having a conversation, people are much more likely to open up. Um, allies are able to create spaces where people can ask those silly questions and not feel like they're going to be judged. You know, if we do it well, we can, we can do that as allies. And I think those ally-to-ally conversations are so critical, which kind of gets to my next point, which is that the education should not always fall on the shoulders of the folks within those marginalized groups. They've got enough on their plate. You know, if we think about, I like to give concrete examples. If you think about walking into the doctor's office and you're confronted by the M or F box, which is standard. I can't believe how often I still see this, but just standard M or F. What are they asking? Are they asking about our, our biological sex or our gender? Well, it doesn't matter for me because those align. I can just check the F box and I'm fine. Right. But for transgender people, for intersex people, for non-binary people, what do they check? They're not even, they're not seeing themselves on this form. Right. So this is a perfect place for an ally to step up to the plate because the folks who are not seeing themselves on the form, at that doctor's office are already feeling vulnerable and scared and maybe unsafe. Whereas myself as an ally walking in, I see myself on that form. I'm the perfect person to— it's not risky for me, right? I can write a little note on that form and say, hey, this form could be more inclusive for, you know, trans folks and non-binary folks, um, which I do all the time and which I encourage allies to do. But it's just sort of showing the place where allies can take some of that heavy lifting. And often do it in a way that's much less risky to us than to the folks who are already feeling vulnerable. So those are just two of the many reasons. And I'd welcome my, my co-presenters here to chime in if they've got other thoughts on that, but those are two of my favorite reasons why allies are so important.

I'd love to chime in. I think allyship is particularly important for trans youth. We've likely all seen the statistics that there are higher rates of suicidality, depression, bullying when it comes to trans youth. And allyship and affirmation from everyone, and particularly from parents, 'cause not all parents are allies, can be critical to the wellbeing of trans kids. I'm reminded of the words of one of my favorite mentors throughout this process, a gentleman named Jean Malpas of the Gender Family Project. He was fond of saying, "Is protection," meaning that if you accept your child, if you affirm his, her, or their gender identity, You're already helping to protect your kid. And if other allies outside of the family can do the same thing, it can have a mountainous effect. And that protection, that layer of protection can grow. There is this study that was conducted in 2016. I'll throw this in there that tracked a group of trans kids and a group of cisgender kids. And it found that the trans children who were affirmed had similar mental health outcomes to the cisgender group of kids. Meaning if we just affirm someone, if we act as an ally in the home and outside the home, then our kids are actually safer. And particularly in this time of anti-trans legislation, anti, you know, hate that's out there. I think this allyship is so important. And this affirmation in and outside of the home becomes more critical because I, and I really do believe getting back to all three of our books, that a lot of the hate out and the anger really stems from fear, fear of the unknown. And I think when we can increase awareness, educate people, and normalize, quote unquote, and I use quotes because what is normal and humanize, which is a better word, the transgender experience, we can go a long way, mitigate some of that fear and hate. And I think all three of our books help to do that. And that's why I think sometimes writing the books that we did becomes even more important. Always important, but in today's day and age, especially where this hate is so in everyone's face. So, but back to allyship, I think allyship affirmation is just so critical, not just to the physical wellbeing of the transgender community, but to the emotional wellbeing of that, of this community as well.

That is very true. Thank you so much for sharing all of that. Jayna, did you want to add anything to that?

So it's hard to see exactly what to add to those great statements.

No pressure whatsoever. I just wanted to give you the opportunity.

Yeah, no, I think maybe the coming back to or underscoring the question of normalization. Again, it's, it's a dangerous word to use without, you know, people understanding it, but hopefully listeners will understand that we're not talking about normal and abnormal, but being part of feeling that in fact there is— feeling that your interactions with the group whatever group it is, are not defined by gender identity because they shouldn't be. That's really just a background to your life. And it shouldn't, not only shouldn't it dominate what goes on, it should be invisible. And so what Jeanie and Kate have been talking about, I think, are important steps to that end.

Absolutely. Thank you so much. Kate, I want to circle back a little to what you were saying about higher rates of depression and suicidality and bullying. Can you talk specifically about being a parent to a trans child in this environment and this, you know, with everything that's not only going on right now, but in the past, you know, 5, 7 years, because this is you know, I, how long you've been kind of going on this journey.

I guess what I would say is in general, as a parent, all I wanna do among the things I wanna create happy, healthy, kind children. But as part of that, I feel the need to protect my children. And I can't always do that. It's not feasible, it's not reasonable, and my kids need to learn how to, you know, stand on their own two feet. So it also wouldn't be healthy. But in particular, the world is not so safe right now for one of my children. My daughter faces different obstacles than my son does, and both of them have obstacles. But there are times when I fear simple things. When my daughter goes to the beach and puts on a bathing suit, because I don't— my fear as a parent is that someone will realize that her anatomy is not what they would typically think of when they see a girl. And make fun of her or harm her physically or emotionally. She is 15 years old, right? And she likes boys. Remember, gender, sexuality, two different things. I fear for her emotional well-being when a boy figures out that she's trans, because she knows in her mind that she has to tell them early on for her own safety, physically and emotionally, and for the the boy's safety emotionally. That scares me. In order to have a first kiss, she feels, and we feel that she needs to have this conversation. That's scary. There are times when she walks in certain neighborhoods where, where that might be more prevalent to catcalling or certain areas. I fear for her. What if someone rubs up against her in the subway and feels a body part that, again, that they don't associate with the female anatomy? What could the repercussions be? Now, I say all of this and acknowledge I do not think there is any privilege in being trans. And if there was, I feel in some ways my daughter has trans privilege. Why? And again, no privilege in being trans. She's born into a family that affirms her identity. She's in a city, we live in New York City, where largely there is an overwhelming sense of affirmation. She has access to gender-affirming care. Right now, transgender youth in 21 states don't have access to, to, um, uh, gender-affirming care. That's 35% of all trans youth don't have access, which is crazy-making to me. And our family happens to have the resources that if the financial resources, and I always say if we didn't, I would chop off a limb and sell it on the market. We have the resources to make sure that my daughter gets all of those things. I fear for my daughter on a day-to-day basis, and I fear probably more for the trans youth who are not in the position that my family and my daughter are in. Um, that scares me. So many kids are in homes where they're not affirmed. So many students go to schools where they're not affirmed. That is the scary part to me. And that's why I think, again, not to beat a dead horse, sharing stories, humanizing the transgender experience can help so much to lower the fear, lower the temperature, and make things safer for everyone. And that might sound simplistic, but I think little steps like that can go a long way. So yes, as a parent, I fear for my kid. I fear when she goes to summer camp. She's— when she first went to sleepaway camp, she's in a girl's bunk. How would the other parents, how would the other campers react? How would their parents react? Things that maybe not every parent has to think about, but these are things that my daughter, you know, deals with every day. And some of them, you, you can't predict what she's going to encounter in a day. You can't protect or predict everything that's gonna happen. So you do the best you can. But short answer, it's scary in today's environment. And I know that my daughter, and she, she shouldn't be— I shouldn't say she's lucky to live where she does, and she is. Everyone should be, everyone should be accepted, and it's just not the case.

Right. And I think you touch on something that's so very important there. I mean, you very clearly named 4 things that you— and I totally understand your reluctance to use the word privilege, and it's accurate, right? And it, and it's something that all trans kids, people should have, all LGBTQ+ people should have. So naming that, like, and I say, we said this before we started recording, I said, I feel so much better that my son lives in New York City because I know he's safe, which most parents wouldn't just say that sentence, right? But I happen to know he lives in a neighborhood and that they You know, he can walk around and people don't think twice about it. Gosh, that makes me feel so safe. So being— that's just like the extra layers, like you said, the things that parents, uh, think of, right? Like, is my child going to be safe? Can they go to a school that's in the South? Can they, you know, what friends will they have? This is a big conversation in my house. You know, where are we going to college? And which you will have soon too. And it is So I appreciate you breaking that down so very clearly. Thank you so much. That's very, very helpful. Let's talk a little bit about pronouns. Jeannie, I think that, you know, I know the Savvy Ally does such a phenomenal job and it's part of your email signature and all of the things, but I'd like to talk a little bit about that because like being transgender, that seems to be something that, um, a certain group of people have kind of glommed onto as their favorite hot button topic, as are pronouns. So let's talk about why they're important, um, why we still march forward and we use them, we respect them, and then we understand them. Sure.

I love talking about pronouns. I'd love to start the conversation of pronouns with Abby Wambach. Do we know the superstar Abby Wambach? The The soccer star?

Yeah.

Interestingly, when I do my workshops, I like to start by throwing out the idea, the notion that there are plenty of transgender people who move through the world and the correct pronoun is always used for them. Uh, Laverne Cox, for example, she, people look at her, they're like, she, people get that right. Abby Wambach, who's not transgender, she says gender Heather Hester has talked publicly about how she is often misgendered in public. So she's very tall. She's got broad shoulders. She's got short hair. And people refer, you know, "Sir, you're in the wrong restroom." They say "he" instead of "she." She's not transgender and she's absolutely affected by people using the wrong pronoun. So the reason I like to start this way for our audience listening in today and in my workshops is I really dislike it when pronouns get framed as, you know, a transgender issue. This is a trans— almost as if pronouns didn't exist before transgender people made it a thing. Pronouns are important for every single one of us. And those of us who are— have the privilege of being oblivious to that fact, um, are oblivious because we move through the world and the correct pronoun is used for us. So it becomes really, really easy to forget about like how important they are. But one of the most respectful things that you can do for a person is use their correct name and pronoun. And for most of us, that's easy peasy because people You know, again, they guessed correctly. But as I said, it's not just a transgender issue. It's a human issue. It's really just about, you know, rather than having to guess what someone's pronoun is, um, actually asking them or, or hopefully seeing that on a tag. So you're making sure you're using the correct pronouns. So with that said, I do want to talk about what a lovely ally action it is to share your pronouns if you feel comfortable. I think pronoun sharing should absolutely be optional. I always say it's an opportunity to share your pronouns if you'd like to. Dislike it when I sign up for a conference and they've got like a mandatory space for pronouns. I don't think we should be forcing anyone to share their pronouns, but I think it should always be there as an option. And speaking of a conference, I'll just give you an example of how beautiful this action is as an ally. Imagine a conference where The only people who are wearing pronouns on their name badges are the ones whose pronouns aren't obvious. Talk about othering, right? They're the only people walking around with this big old pronoun badge. Like, that's just weird, right? Well, the way we make it not weird is if everyone walks around with their pronouns on their name tags. So every single time an ally, you know, takes a pronoun pin or puts their pronoun on their name tag, even if it's obvious, which is my case, I'm helping to create an environment where this just becomes sort of the regular thing to do. I'm creating a culture where this becomes, again, here comes this word normalized, we're all using it, but like what a beautiful thing to do, right? I'm just sort of, again, taking some of that weight off there, off of people's shoulders. And so, and I just think, so sharing pronouns in your email signature, on again, a pin or on your name badge. It just makes it so much easier and so much safer for others who really have to share their pronoun in order for people to get it right. So I just think it's a wonderful ally action.

I completely agree. And I wonder if you could share just a little, what would you, what advice would you give to someone who really wants to be able to do that, to be that ally and whether it's putting their pronouns on a name badge or in their email signature on their Zoom name, right? But they're, they're nervous. They're afraid to offend. They're afraid, like they're in that— I feel like so many people have come to me and they're like, I'm just scared. I'm scared I'm gonna say the wrong thing, or I'm scared I'm gonna do the wrong thing. What would be your advice to that person?

I love to, I love to educate with stories. Uh, kind of what Jaina was talking about, like stories really, they, they touch hearts and minds, right? They make it human. And so I like to share a story that I heard in one of my workshops, which was so impactful to me. There, I'm gonna use the name Ari. This wasn't the person's actual name, but this, this individual in my workshop named Ari, pronouns they/them, started a new job and there was no opportunity, no easy way for, for them to share their pronouns, right? So first meeting, there wasn't a, hey, let's share our name and our title. And you know, if you feel comfortable with your pronouns, there was no form that said, hey, if you'd like to share, no opportunity. So they didn't share their pronouns because they weren't feeling super safe about that. They weren't sure they could, or if people would even accept the fact that their pronoun, their pronoun was they. Everybody just looked at their appearance and guessed and assumed that their pronoun was she and started using the pronoun she. And this went on for weeks. So here's Ari in a new job, feeling very vulnerable. Everyone's using the wrong pronoun for them. And eventually what they decided to do was they noticed that several of their coworkers had shared their pronouns in their email signatures. So they're getting emails back from some coworkers and there's their pronoun. And Ari was like, wow, this, these are my people, right? These are either they're part of the LGBTQ+ communities themselves or they're allies to the community. These are the folks who can help me. And Ari went to those people who had shared, that's all they did was they just shared their, their, their pronouns and their email signature, told these folks what was going on, you know, and these allies bonded together. Helped Ari, we helped let people know what Ari's pronouns were, helped others get it right, and also started to implement systems in the workplace to prevent what happened to Ari, like make it really easy for people to share their pronouns when they first enter that job. And so when I think about people saying like, well, I don't wanna share my pronouns, I feel like it's virtue signaling, or I might get some pushback, like you might, and people might say it's virtue signaling, It's actually ally signaling. And so, you know, I think those stories, I'm not gonna say like you're not gonna get pushback. I think those stories really help us understand how critical a move like that is. And it's not a big thing. It's a little thing adding your pronouns, but it can be, it can mean the world to someone like Ari, who was in a setting that felt very, very unsafe.

May I share another pronoun story?

Yes, please.

I sometimes, it's not even about, I have found that it's not even about sharing your own pronouns, there are still other ways to show allyship. For example, I happen to be on the admissions team for a university's business school, and I speak to candidates every day. Candidates who are nervous, they're applying to get into business school, they want tips, they're excited, they're scared, nervouscited, if you will, uh, because they wanna get in. And when they say, hey Kate, do you have any tips? And one of them I say, listen, We won't read an application until everything's there. So when it comes to that recommendation, the recommendation isn't in, we'll wait until it gets in and then you'll be at the bottom of the pile. So when you think about who you want your recommender to be, be sure to get it to him or her or them as quickly as you can so that everything's in there all at one time. And I remember early on, someone said to me at the end of our conversation, hey, Kate, I just want you to. I didn't know that you said he, she, or they, or him, her, them in the beginning of our conversation. And I really appreciated that. That meant something to me. And when I, and, and I'm, I'm getting chills saying that story because it was, it was a little thing I thought, and it meant it was a signal to the person on the other, on the other side of the phone that, wow, this could be a safe environment. I didn't tell the person what my pronouns were, but when I, and now, and initially and I used to joke about this in my book. They used to be really hard for me. They is going to the bathroom. They are going to the bathroom.

Haha.

Um, and now it's easy for me because I practice. And that's one of the things, Jeannie, you said to do in your book is practice. And now he, she, they rolls off the tip of my tongue. I have friends who identify as they, it rolls off the tip of my tongue. So even an email signature is awesome. Jeannie, I love that. I love your story of the friend in the workplace. And just using it in speech can signal to someone.

Absolutely. Absolutely. That's so, so powerful. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing those stories. I would like to now shift to something that we were all talking about again, before we started recording, which is the next 3 months and the upcoming election. And we were sharing some, some nervousness and some anxiety and some, and just a little bit about how we're feeling about it. And I would love to have a little bit of a deeper conversation about it and have you each kind of share whether you have some great tips for actions that we can take these next 3 months, or if you have a tip for something, if you're just feeling so incredibly anxious about this and you can't even function, or you're having a hard time functioning, if you have a tip for that. I think people really would appreciate all of these pieces. So I'll just, I'll let you take it and run with it.

I don't mind starting. Is that okay? Yeah. So I actually am less anxious than I have been in a long, long time with the news that Kamala Harris is running. I am like amazingly energized. I am so excited. So I'm going to let the other folks chime in if they've got some tips for anxiety. I am feeling so energized and so I wanna be a part of this. I wanna do everything I can to motivate people to get out and vote. And so what I did was I immediately went to kamalaharris.com. And if anyone's interested in learning how they can take action, they've gotta take action button. And I, I kind of browsed that and I have to say like nothing kind of fit for me. Like I was like, oh, maybe I can call people on the phone. And for me, that didn't feel like a, a good fit, but I kept poking around.. And I found, but that may fit for some folks. So I know you're going to include that link, but I kept poking around and I found a site called turnout.org and postcards. And what they're doing is this is right up my alley. You can sign up to get a pack of postcards. Um, I ordered 300. I'm going to throw a postcard party here at my house. And what it is, is you're basically, they're, they're sending you 300 names and addresses of folks who are registered Democrats who are in the swing states. And you're basically filling out handwritten postcards saying, please vote. It's so important. You live in a state, please vote. And what they're finding is that this is an enormously effective way to get people out to vote is if they get a handwritten card from someone in the mail. And so that's what I'm doing. And I'm very excited. I'm getting my pack in a couple of weeks. And I'm, as I said, I'm gonna have a party and I'm gonna have the party early enough that if we don't get all the postcards done, then I'm just doing like 10 a day every night, you know, in front of Netflix or whatever. But that just felt really empowering for me and it felt like a good fit for me cuz I'm kind of crafty anyway. So I'll figure, you know, I'll sticker it up and do stuff like that. But, um, I am, I'm just so, so, so excited. And I just wanna say that one of my bucket list items, although I don't know if it can be a bucket list if you actually have no control over it. Well, I have some control over it. One of my bucket list items is I want to be alive to see the first, uh, woman president in the United States. And the idea of it being a woman of color is just like a little bonus. So that's what I have to say.

Love it. I love it. Love it. Thank you. Those are— that's one I did not know of. So that is not only going in the show notes, it is going on my website.

So that is amazing.

Oh my goodness.

Kate.

So I've given this a lot of thought and like you, Jeannie, in the past week, my anxiety level has just absolutely plummeted and I could not be more ecstatic to be supporting the Kamala Harris ticket. And I've been kind of racking my brain. I've been on the website, I've been on some Kamala calls or team, team calls. And I think what I came up with for me, I mean, freedom really is on the ballot in so many ways. That's what Kamala says. And it, and it truly is. And particularly for the trans community, it is. And I hate to be a downer, but Trump literally said, quote, on day one, I will revoke Joe Biden's cruel policies on so-called gender-affirming care. That's what he said in a video more than a year ago. And I kind of, when somebody says something, I think you should believe them. So I'm, I'm taking the orange man at his word. I'm trying with all of my heart to talk, to write, to get the word out that way, and to try to, I, I, was thinking about this earlier. I write articles from time to time and I, I really just am gonna spread the word and keep talking about the importance of the election. Hopefully being able to do something that resonates in those swing states. And, and just, I don't know that that will be the most effective way, but my mouth and my words are usually my go-to. And I, I like to believe that human beings are inherently nice. And kind, and that if people understand what the stakes are on a personal level, enough people, even if it's just a few, will able— be able to put us over the top. Could be very idealistic. And I think I'm also going to do a postcard party now that I've heard about it, Jeanine. I know.

Oh, that's so great. Well, I think you hit on something there too, which is play to your strengths. Like, what are you good at? What do you— what sounds like really fun or really interesting? That you can do. There's something out there that'll help you be part of this. Which, you know, I think too, when you are taking action and doing, that in and of itself helps to bring the anxiety down. So that's a big, a big thing. Jayna, I'd love to hear what you, your thoughts on this.

The, the postcard. So what, as far as the, these practical steps, I have read enough reports in various places that I believe were trustworthy that the postcard writing is among the most effective things you can do. Another thing that I believe is extremely effective, there's the former secretary. I don't know how well known his name is. The former Secretary of Labor for Bill Clinton, Robert Reich, has an organization. He has his own blog and so on. He's been until this year, a professor of economics at UC Berkeley, but he has a blog and he has a group called Media Matters, which is run by a woman named Heather, Heather Lofgren, I think. They do videos. Reich is very good at doing these little, you know, like a drawing type, uh, you know, videos where he illustrates in simple graphics, you know, what he's talking about. He's a very good speaker and he can get it into about 5 minutes. I think these are typically 5 to maybe 10 minutes. And, uh, he claims, and I mean, this is somebody who doesn't, you know, traffic exaggerations and lies, that, that these videos are among the most effective, uh, in moving, uh, uh, people, the voters who, who, who are brought together to see them of, of any type of conversation, like 10 to 15 percentage points of swings and so on. So I believe of all the places, uh, that one might support, that's the, that's the one I would, uh, I would do. Uh, so, so that's my encouraging, uh, idea. Now the, I, I just, I'm sorry, I cannot, um, not say this. If Trump loses, he is not going to try, he is not going to go away. He is not going to go away without violence. And I believe, I don't know what the right answer is, and I'm sorry to say this, but people who have guns legally are going to have to fight, stand up against those who don't have them legally. Or who have them— when I say legally, basically, I mean, you know, the FBI and the military have got to be on our side. Otherwise it doesn't matter what we vote. That's my opinion.

Pardon.

Don't apologize. Don't apologize because that is something that is very real. And, um, and I think just from seeing, watching what's happened in the past 4 years is very true. So I think it's, while good to be energized and feeling some hope, it's also good to hold that piece as well. Because he has not only shown us who he is, he has told us and he is telling us even more, right? As the days go on, it's extraordinary the things that he's actually telling us, if people would really take it seriously. So thank you for bringing that up. And I think that is something that is good to be aware of and hold as, yeah, it's developed.

And I want to say one more thing about the candidates. And I think so, uh, 2 weeks, roughly 2 weeks ago, I went to a workshop for 2 days, uh, on interracial sisterhood. So this was a group of about 15 Black women and, well, people of color, uh, women of color, mostly Blacks, uh, Latinas. Latina, Latina, and, um, and one, uh, of Asian origin. And then the other is white. And it was an opportunity to be frank, open, and respectful. And, you know, so the frank part got intense at times, which is really very valuable. So I won't go into all of the details of that, but I got to talk with more Black women than I've ever seen in, you know, a long time because in my isolated place, I don't see I don't see them very often. And some of these very forceful, energetic, I mean, women with a lot of accomplishment, they didn't believe— this was before the announcement of Biden's withdrawal. They didn't believe that a Black woman could be successful in winning the presidency. So my point about saying it is just that I honestly think this is almost better than anything else. I mean, let's like, let's put this country to the test and let's see what you can do. So yeah, I am on that side of it. I'm hopeful. I think we need to capitalize on this. It's like, yes, this is your time.

So anyway, if I might add, Heather Hester.

Sure.

Yes, I'm excited and I'm hopeful, but even prior to this, since we are talking in many ways about parenting our LGBTQ teens, I have let my daughter know because she's scared. If Trump gets in office, am I going to, again, am I going to be able to have an operation? Am I going to be able to get my gender affirmation surgery? Is everything gonna go backwards? She has anxiety as well. And as her mother, I try not to project my anxiety. I'm, I'm honest with her. And what I have told her, I would, and I think I can, I do believe this, it will be okay. I've said, sweetheart, it will be okay. Regardless of who wins, you will be okay. It will be okay. And dad and I will make sure you're okay. Now, the particulars of that, how are we gonna do that? I have no idea. And I believe it. And she, I I think that LGBTQ teen population needs to know that whatever happens, we are there for them. And that's a little bit, I think, assuaged some of my daughter's concerns. Again, how are you gonna back this up, Kate? I have no idea. If I have to hug her for 4 years, I will. Right. And I do believe it. I do believe no matter what happens, we, we all will still be there for our kids. We have to be there for them. And I think it's important that they know that at the end of the day, we got your back. You will be okay.

Yes. Thank you for saying that because that is very powerful. And I think it's also a good reminder to parents that even when we're feeling all the feelings, that it is important to hold both, right? So we can feel all the feelings and that's true., but we can also say to our kids, it's, we've got you. And, and both of those are 1,000% accurate. So thank you for sharing that. I'd like to just wrap up with each of you sharing some very specific tips on, um, action tips or strategies that are very specific to you and the work that you're doing in the world. So, Jayna, I'd love to start with you and just hear some tips as from a transgender woman. What are actions that others can take and strategies that you have found to be helpful?

So thank you. Uh, yeah. So in, in, in my position in life, uh, at this point, I'm, I'm not really like implementing strategies in the way that some other people, uh, but this is what I can say about what I think is, is perhaps I would like to see, it would be wonderful if the dialogue about why you have gender-affirming care could be changed from the best that the positive side, that the affirmative side seems to be able to present in political discussions is it prevents suicide. Preventing suicide strikes me as a rather low bar for a social policy. Is that the highest goal we can think about? And improving or improvements or degradations of mental health doesn't strike me as much better. You know, it's like, that's great. We should have better mental health. I mean, but is that the only reason that we care about affirming transgender people? How about allowing transgender children to become prize-winning scientists or journalists or actors? Or even just retire from their factory job with accolades for mentoring and leading the safest team and have a sense that they'd had the chance to accomplish all that they were able to in life. Because none of this is likely to happen to a person when you can't live your true self.

Kate, what would you like to add?

That's a tough act to follow.

It is.

To parents, to my fellow parents out there of trans kids, It really goes back to me, it goes back to acceptance is protection. Accept your kid, affirm your child, love your child, hopefully respect your child. And when someone tells you who they are, believe them. Kids can know, a child can know they're transgender. It can take them until an adult can realize they're transgender. But when someone says that a kid isn't old enough to know, Studies indicate otherwise. Around 2, kids start to have— be conscious of physical differences between boys and girls. Before their 3rd birthday, most kids can identify themselves as either a boy or a girl. And by age 4, most kids, not all, seem to have a, a stable sense of their gender identity. So believe your child. If your child says, I am this, believe them. Thank them for sharing with you. Let them know that, wow, that's a brave thing. You're telling— you're brave. Thank you for sharing. So just affirm your kid. It doesn't mean that you're running to a doctor in the first 5 minutes. It doesn't mean— not every trans person wants surgery. It just means affirm your child. Let them know that you love them. And that sharing this big thing with, with you is what a gift.

Thank you.

Yeah. I wanna play off that before I add some of my more practical tips. I 100% agree with what all of you said. I think Janice should have gone last, cuz that was like, okay, that, let's just wrap that up. Maybe you can rearrange that when you create the file.

I know.

I was just thinking that.

How do we follow that act?

Cut and paste, right?

Yes. But to follow up on what Kate said, I think I hear so often from parents, you know, I just feel like this is just a phase. You know, it's, it's the, it's the, it's the hip thing to do to say you're non-binary, for example. And I, I don't think it's gonna stick. And you know, I, I just, I, I always say like, okay, it, maybe it is a phase. Like, let's be real. It could absolutely be a phase. That's what adolescence is all about is kids like trying stuff out and how beautiful that we've created a world which didn't exist when I was a teenager. Where we actually can kind of figure stuff out for ourselves, right? And maybe it won't stick, but the fact is, you know, whether it's a phase or not, it's that child's reality right now. And so just 100%, like, just be there with them. You don't need to ask them if it's a phase, you know, even if you think, well, this might not be the identity that they're going to have in 20 years, fine. It's who they are right now. And so respect that. And, um, you know, don't automatically go to that, like, oh, it's just because all what the kids are doing, just listen to them and accept who they are and realize that it may stick and it may not. And exactly what Kate said, this doesn't mean that next week you're going to be taking them to the surgeon, you know, oh, it's like they're, they're figuring it out and giving them the space to do that is beautiful. But I'm, I'm a, I'm a practical person. I'm always like practical tips. So I'm going to end with some practical tips for folks. And these are just really common tips that I think help most of the people I talk with. The one I just talked about, like maybe it's a phase. The switch it technique. I think implementing the switch it technique is fantastic, which means basically, you know, replace the, in this case, transgender identity with a cisgender person and ask yourself, like, is this okay to ask? Or would this question fly? Would I ever ask a cisgender person this question? You know, so would you ever ask your cisgender child, like, are you sure you're cisgender? Maybe it's just a phase. Like, never in a million years would we ask that. And the switch it technique helps us understand that maybe that's gonna be a little ouchie to ask our, our trans or our non-binary child that. So the switch it technique is a great like self-coaching tip that I'm always pulling out for myself and it helps to also educate others. The other one I just wanna share, Kate also touched on it earlier, was practice. I'm sorry, or Jaina, I can't remember who it was. Someone mentioned practicing and this one I think is huge. You know, the idea that we could switch pronouns or names with a child who has been a certain name and pronoun for their entire life up until this moment. And all of a sudden now we've gotta be using a new name and pronoun and your child, you know, may or may not be super, you know, some kids are very patient and others are just like, you need to get it right this second. And that's really hard. And so be kind to yourself while you are working on it. And a great way to do it is, you know, the, the way that memory retention is very interesting. You know, when, when humans first learn things. They can recall it very quickly, right away, you know, within a couple minutes, but you know, a day later it's, it's like gone unless you practice it. And so the same is true with pronouns. So I would say find ways, everyday things that will remind you to practice that pronoun. So if your child, for example, is using the pronoun they, and you're really struggling with that, you know, you walk in their room and you're like, oh my gosh, they're, they're such a slob. Their, their room is so messy. I'm going to make sure they clean it up when they get home. You know, and if you're not doing that in your head, if you're back to like, oh, her room is— oh, I meant their room is so messy. You can do that all day long because you're thinking about your kids. You're seeing things that remind you of your kids. Just do that in your head using the correct pronoun so that you can practice, practice, practice, practice. And you're way more likely to get it right when you're, uh, right in front of your child and way more likely to cause offense. So those are just a few like practical tips to take away.

I love it. So, so helpful. And, um, that is one of, you know, has been one of my favorite things about, about your book. Um, and I think it was in your book, just kind of adding onto that one where you talked about, maybe it was somebody else as well that shared this with me, that they used their dog to help them. So they changed the pronouns of their dog and would just refer to their dog by new pronouns. And that's how they practiced.

I was like, my cat Carlos. I practiced on Carlos and Carlos did not seem to mind, did not care what pronoun I used as long as I fed him on time. Um, yes, I practiced singular they on Carlos for a while and I got incredibly good at it. And if you don't have a pet, you can do it with, with animals you see outside. I mean, you don't know the gender of a squirrel. So while you're walking around the streets, you know, drinking your coffee, you can be like, you know, oh, look at that cute squirrel. They're carrying a nut, you know. Use, use they for the squirrel. Like, it's just, it's so easy. There's so many ways to practice that. It is.

It is.

And it takes that, that, um, just that difficulty right out of it. So thank you so much for sharing those. Thank you all so much for sharing your wisdom and your sharing so vulnerably all of these, all of the tips, all of the thoughts, all of the wisdom. Um, and I, I'm just grateful, grateful to be a part of it. So thank you for asking me to moderate this lovely conversation. I cannot wait for, um, well, now everybody will be listening to it. So as you get to this part, you're going to be like, what are you waiting for, Heather? But I am delighted to put this out into the world and, um, just delighted to know all of you. This was such a treat. So thank you. Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you.

Thank you for having us. Thank you.

I am so glad you were here today. There is a lot going on right now, and I hope this episode brought you comfort, helped you feel more informed, and empowered you to be the next ripple, whether that is through renewed connection with your child, a friend, your community or out in the world. Reach out if you have a question you'd like for me to answer in an upcoming episode. Join others in community on my Patreon and share this podcast. Liking, rating, sharing, and reviewing all help get More Human, More Kind in front of others who need to know that they are not alone. And right now, that is no small thing. Remember to take breaks, big breaths, hug your kids, and tell someone how much you appreciate them. Until next time.