https://www.listennotes.com/e/fdb8a8ce11974cdaac81f4aa6cbee001

I love to connect. I think that is one of my superpowers is really just encouraging and cheering people on.

This is your Badass Journey podcast. I am Terrienne Walsh, serial entrepreneur, growth strategist, executive leadership coach, and bestselling author. Each week, I will bring you a guest or a thought that will help you align what you love with what you do in order to build that badass life and business you dream of. Hey there, listeners. Welcome to today's episode. I have my special guest, Kyle. Kyle is such an awesome, awesome human. He has helped a lot of people not only reconnect to themselves, but really get that opportunity to recharge in his Reaching Beyond experience that he launched as his own business. almost about, I think, 18 months ago. Maybe he's on his two-year mark now. He and I met through a mutual friend, Chris Harder, and I was fortunate enough to coach Kyle to help him get that clarity on what it is that he wanted to put out into the world, because he was going into transition of his life as a stay-at-home dad, a recovering I would say overachiever in the business world that was in less fulfilling stance, which led him to become a stay at home dad and also work with his wife to clear debt. I wanted him on the show in order to share with all of you some of the tips that he leverages in some of his money courses as well as, you know, just the stance you have to have in your life to make sure you're recharging in a way that you don't hit that wall of overwhelm or burnout, especially in the churn that we've been in for this past year. I felt it was really important for us to start talking about methods to ensure that you are stepping into arenas that fill you up in order to do more in the life that you truly want. So in today's conversation, we touch upon some of those tips. We obviously share Kyle's story and also really just reconnect on some of his questions with one of the goals he has to achieve in writing his first book. He asked me some questions about that as well. So I know you're gonna enjoy today's episode. Make sure to let us know you're listening and really love hearing any questions you have, but also I'm always here to cheer you on and walk alongside you on your journey. Let's jump into today's conversation. Welcome, Kyle, to today's show. So happy to have you.

I am happy to be here. Kareen, thanks for having me.

Oh, you know, our conversations, I was fortunate that we were introduced by Chris Harder. Now, I think it's almost-- is it almost like two years? I mean, last year was a time warp, fam. Like, I can't even-- but what I love about seeing where you are today and also the dialogue that we are able to keep up with and how I want to share with listeners today. I'm just real excited to have you on the show. And before we jump into things in the topic around, you know, our life choices and money management and just finding that what you call work life rhythm, I would love for you to share with my listeners some of your badass journey to date and how you came to the point of building and running the reaching and beyond experience But also just in general so they get a picture of who you are.

Okay, sounds good. So I'm from a small town southeast Wisconsin and that's kind of my, where I grew up, was born, stayed there for a long time. My parents very blue collar, my dad's a carpenter and he still is a carpenter today. He turns 72 in June of this year and that's when he's gonna hang it up. So he's been 50-ish years as a carpenter. So that's what I was. that's what I saw as a young child, was a dad who worked super hard. My mom worked part-time ultra involved in all the activities that I did. I have an older brother and a younger brother, and being from a small town, we did all sports. We did all extracurriculars. And so that was just something that I thought everyone did. I loved it and really enjoyed it. Was a mediocre athlete at everything that I did, but at a small school that's slightly above average then. So I loved it. We had a great time. And then I went to UW Green Bay, got a business administration undergrad. And then I started working in travel wholesale in Milwaukee, and then for a couple of years did that, loved it. And that's when my love of travel really started to catch on. I enjoyed traveling. And then I moved up to Minneapolis 2005. I worked for Target headquarters. And this is where I started to really get caught up in what we all refer to as the rat race. I was chasing the success carrot, climbing the ladder. The carrot kept moving. you know, defining success as, you know, how much the paycheck was, the bonus, the title, the office, which would allow me to buy the cars and all these things, right?

Yeah.

But I got really caught up into it. And then I started to go back into hospitality. I worked for the company that owns Radisson. So now I'm traveling to Aruba, St. Martin, all these great things. He sent me to Singapore and I had a great time. I really enjoyed it. And then I got married. but traveling once a week as a newly married man, it just wasn't the husband I wanted to be being gone that long. So I left that job. I got into video game distribution. So I'll speed it up to about 2015 where I really hit this point of burnout in my professional career. Mid 30s at that time, I think it's kind of common 10, 12 years maybe into a career. But the problem was I had the success that I thought success was defined as, but it felt really empty and I was really lost and confused as to who I was because I was not enjoying my life professionally speaking. But as anyone knows, and they're burned out, that same energy gets transferred into all categories of your life. So relationships were not very good. My health was not very good. And so it affected all categories of life, but I was stuck. And through a process of trying to connect the dots, like, what am I good at? What am I think I'm talented at? What's my story? I've come to find out, or I came to find out that I really enjoyed teaching and uncovering the process of learning for people. So I swung to pendulum all the way over to the side. And I became a traditional high school business teacher. I was teaching business. Personal finance was one of the topics. And here's where the story gets interesting is I'm teaching high school students all of these personal finance ways of, of, of doing things, which led me and my wife to living our life, which was paycheck to paycheck and broke. But on the surface, everything looked fine. I'm like, this doesn't make any sense. You know, why am I teaching these students this? if this is what I'm living and we're so unhappy and broke. And I found Dave Ramsey's curriculum and program. It's a common personal finance teacher. And we did his program. We paid off a bunch of money in a relatively short period of time. And all through that journey, I actually, I like to say I was promoted to being a stay-at-home dad. And I say that because I was given such a gift to spend time with my son that I know that a lot of, other parents or fathers may not have that same gift. So loved it, enjoyed it. And I really started to share this message of how to get out of debt, how to fix your money mindset, the money blueprint you have, how to change that, all those things. And then when you and I connected two years ago, we started to design this thing called the Reaching Beyond Experience, which for me was, I'm not the only one who was burned out professionally. And I know others are as well. And they maybe feel stuck in that. So how do I help? So, I found this great resort on the north shore of Minnesota. I reserved 10 rooms and I just promoted it to my network. And lo and behold, 10 people showed up. They were all guys though, and it just kind of snowballed since then. And we can get into that later, but that's kind of how that started. So, I do that now in tandem with teaching money mindset and debt elimination strategy.

It's amazing, you know, even knowing where you had started two years ago when we connected and seeing the trajectory since then and the impact that it's had because you basically were really sitting in a need you felt for yourself, which was to connect to others, but then also wanting to monetize it to allow for the best experiences to show up, you know, in it all. I do want to go back a little bit on the learnings of the money principles that allowed you like, A, you were an educator. So for you to disseminate information, to give practical knowledge to others so that they can take it forward and know as one of your guiding principles and how you show up in life, it's also what makes you an amazing father and witnessing your exchange with your son is really cool too. I love that you said you got promoted to being a stay-at-home dad because I believe that it is one of the best gifts when you can have time with family, but also that influence and that connection. And the pandemic year that we had in forcing everyone was kind of forced to be home, not everybody was prepared for all of that demand. And I also have been seeing a lot of struggle in the unemployment rate going up, but then the group of people who really were focused on online earnings, like how to digitally connect to then earn, there's now this whole new money language to even consider what choices we have. What it shows for me is that there are so many choices. But I'm curious if you have a baseline principle that you learned for yourself first, that helped you become debt free, but then allowed you the freedom to start to choose, as money was coming in after that point, what to do with it, just so that we can help people maybe walk away with some practical knowledge today around the money management side that has allowed this flexibility for you.

Yes. Okay. So I love to teach, so I can kind of get geeky about this.

So- Geek on, man.

Geekon, I think sometimes, I think oftentimes we overcomplicate money and it's quite simple. You've got money coming in and you've got money going out. And so a lot of the financial gurus out there, I mentioned Dave Ramsey, he does a tremendous job of helping people cut expenses. I think that's half the equation. If anyone is a sports person, that's like playing good defense, right? I'm going to manage the money that I've been given. the other half of the equation is playing good offense. So if you can put the two together, increase my income, which is offense, decrease my expenses, which is defense, all you're really doing is increasing the gap that you have in your budget, which allows you to then use that money. And if you're in, if you're in the space, in the, the season of paying off debt, you can get about that business so much faster when you've got a increased Gap. And so people hear that and they're like, yeah, but, you know, I can't just start a business. Look, I have a friend that during the pandemic, he started doing, what is it? Instacart. And he was making $1,000 a week, a week, just doing 10 to 12 hours at his free time at night. And I'm like, wow, I'll just be resourceful and just be thinking about where can I step in? What are the skills that I have? But more importantly, where's there a really big need? and during the pandemic as it started, he was just crushing it. And he got out of debt so quick because he just asked those few questions. You and I have mutual friends in Rob and Kim Murgatroyd, they play this game called Stupid Idea Time. How can I just be creative and give myself the permission to think about how can I increase my income right now?

Yeah. I think it's important to understand the resourcefulness that is required to generate the income coming in, but also the diligence and the discipline around the expense side, right? When you were sharing your journey and it was so familiar to me because I had the similar one where it was like, chase the game that has been written for us versus create the game we want to play in. And that chase of like, go get the degree, you know, go get that job, make this certain amount, like buy these certain things, go live in this neighborhood, travel to these places where it's all this outside construct and input that's given to us to step into that. Again, we all go through that almost like that midlife crisis of sorts. And I would call it like the mid-career crisis because you're then questioning All right, I figured out how to do all those things. I can follow suit. I can make things happen and I can achieve it for myself. But does it fill me up?

Right?

Yeah.

And do I want to do it for 20 more years?

Yeah. Or is it even possible anymore to even think that you could do the same thing for 20 years stretch? Like when you share your story about your father going into retirement, just finishing his carpentry career, and then I instantly had the visual of him never really ending that. He'll probably end it to for money, but his carpentry is his soul. Like he, he will show up in it regardless. I could totally see him showing your son, like how to use the tools and go make something because it's so creative and fulfilling, right?

Yes.

In our career life though, because we're, we're brought up under constructs that we are testing our own limits within. And then we have to ask that question. And my listeners know, because I talk about fulfillment all the time, it's like, well, what truly fills us up? When I was going through my initial shift from corporate into, let's call it self-employment, because that was the first stint I did was like, could I even just work for myself? My motto was minimal effort, maximum reward in order to create that resourcefulness you were just talking about, where it was like, how can I leverage what I've done already and just maximize my time in it and maximize the earning for that time? you know? And I found that being self-employed, I can make twice as much and manage my own cash flow a certain way, as well as my expenses. I made sure that my household needs were always a fourth of what I was earning so that I always had this really nice margin to play with to create the experiences that I wanted in life.

Yeah, I like that.

That sounds like that for you. Tell me about that moment though, when you were like, Debt free and you guys accomplished that together because that was a joint thing with you and your wife. And I think that's also important. Relationships and money is like, it's a whole nother learning skill.

It's the number one question I get asked is how do I get my spouse on board with finances? Yeah, you're right. It was emotional. I mean, for the last several months of paying off our mortgage, my son Cal and I would go to the bank actually and drop off the check. And as we're counting down the months to it, the last check that we did, my wife, my son and I all went and we paid off the mortgage and we just sat in the lobby and we just got emotional and started crying. It's like it just felt like $380,000 off of our shoulders. But it isn't so much that, but it's what it allows us to now do. And it allows us to have more flexibility in me launching these different business offerings that I have. to go to Scottsdale for the month and avoid the deep freeze of Minnesota. So it's more of like, what does it allow us to do that got really emotional for us? And you realize the heavy, the heaviness and the weight and the burden of some of that debt. Yeah.

And also just the capabilities, like what happens when you actually pay off a mortgage and own a property, the leverage that that gives you also to invest in other things. with your cash flow, but also now that credit, like it gives you a credibility in the lending space. Also when you're able to fulfill something like that too. And people don't realize that too. A lot of people go into credit card debt that don't understand that to buy the thing you want now and pay for it with compounded interest over time, for the one hit wonder of using it in the moment. It's really created a major financial crisis for a lot of people. Did you have to deal with any of that type of debt as well, or do you have any tips around just cash flow management and also leveraging credit when it's available to you? Yeah.

What did I want to say? I love the snowball method, but here's and Anyone can just, you could just Google snowball and you'll find it. But essentially you just line up all of your debts, all of your consumer debts, and whichever one has the smallest monthly payment, you throw everything you've got at that one and you just knock that out, take that amount, and now it gets bigger and you add it to the next one. It gets bigger and you can see the snowball grow and grow. But here's the trick. This is what people get caught up on, Karine. I think this is important to share. There's a lot of different ways to pay off debt. There's a lot of methods. There's a lot of how tos. But as you and I both know, whatever you decide to stick with and be consistent with will work. The plan works if you work the plan consistently. So we chose the snowball method. That's great. There's another one called the avalanche, which I think you pay the highest interest rate. I don't really even know, and there's people that attack it.

You just need a method, though. You need to be conscious around- Stay with it.

Yeah, that's exactly. Be consistent. That's all there is. Like there isn't, there's not a lot of sexiness to this. It really just was every single month we had a goal as to how much we wanted to pay off. We accomplished said goal and we just rinsed and repeated for 38 months.

Yeah.

And we're done. Like that was it. That was it.

That's beautiful. What is one thing that you learned most about yourself going through your financial journey, let's call it that.

So much. The thing that kind of comes to mind, and I wanted to mention this earlier, is when my wife and I are working together, when we are moving in the same direction, we are capable of really powerful, strong things. And that builds so much belief in each other, respect for each other. And now we've got more goals that we're gonna hit and we're gonna hit them because we've now practiced working on a goal together and we've accomplished it. And I just, I think that's so important to share. If anyone's listening, they've got a significant other spouse partner, whatever. When you accomplish goals together, it's so important. It's not just about achieving the goal. I developed so much respect for my wife because in a lot of instances, I mean, I was the one who was staying home with Cal. That was a sacrifice. My wife was the one out there working. That was a sacrifice. So we both were making sacrifices. And so what I've really learned is that, I mean, my wife is freaking awesome and she's incredible and I've already had respect for her, but now I just respect her so much more. And I know that when we combine our heads, we're really capable of some powerful things.

Yeah, it's very powerful together. And I think feeling the self-empowerment, right, the how you show up in it individually, and getting clear on that, and then articulating that to our partners and creating space for them to articulate it back to you is such a, it's just such a gifted moment. You know, not everyone has yet to experience that because maybe they still have work to do themselves. Like I always try to encourage people, the problems you see in other people are probably problems you have to face yourself. Like if you're getting triggered by someone else's response to something, It's because you need to go work on that thing like that, you know? And so when you can actually go through some of the harder, more challenging, disciplined moments together and continue to grow and learn together, I mean, it's just such a beautiful connection. So I love that that's a main takeaway and consistent investment back into your relationship is that not only identification of the power you both have, But you've tested what it feels like when someone pulls back and someone else drives forward and that ebb and flow or rhythm, as you call it, as well, which is so beautiful.

Yeah.

Let's define for everyone what work-life rhythm means to you.

I love this talk. I mean, I love the money topic too, but this one just is so fun for me. You know, I think rhythm is identifying the seasons or periods of intense focus work because we have that, right? We're in America. We work. But that has to be followed up with a period of recharging, rebalancing, plugging in your batteries. And when you understand how to identify those periods and strategically place your recharging after them, you're able to sustain high levels of performance. I think what we see a lot of times is people kind of hold their breath for the entire year and they go down to maybe a Mexico all-inclusive and they exhale and that looks like overindulging on food and drink. Yeah.

Illness shows up too.

Yes.

And they shut down like that. Yeah. Yeah.

And I just, I don't think that that's, I don't think that's the best way to do it. I've, I found that, okay, I know I'm in a current sprint right now. I've got a course that's coming up. I want to write a book. So that requires a little bit more from me. number one, I've got to communicate that to my wife so that she knows and she supports. And then number two, like, I've got to say no to more things than I probably would have before. I've got boundaries and containers. And then after that, we've got something that's placed where my wife knows, like, hey, we are now going to recharge. We are going to plug in together. And that's the rhythm in the season that I want to utilize in my life and in my family's life. And I think that's It's served us well so far because I've been very focused on work-life balance for a long time. And that's so, it's antiquated, literally the term comes from eight hours of work, eight hours of recreation, eight hours of rest. I'm like, okay, that was from the early 1800s.

Right, and there's no real balance even in that model. Like, balance is always a trade-off. I always use like the old school scale. And it's like, oh, you got to take off some things here for the other one to rise up. And I'm like, no, it's got to be, Integrative and I love your word and rhythm because it, yes, it's like an ebb and flow energetic charge and the refueling and the ability to push forward.

I mean, the best way that I can share this, and I used to be really into weight training, strength training, still am, but it's not quite as much. But everyone understands that when we strength train and we lift weights, we're actually breaking down our muscles. mm. But our muscles don't grow until we rest, recharge, recover, refuel. That's when they grow. I'm like, well, conceptually, can we not, the same thing works in the rest of life. So that's just what I've found to, to work really well for me. And that's something that I've been sharing and that's the experiences that I create around. And yeah, I love the concept of rhythm. Yeah.

And, and it's really great cuz you can feel the energy by just saying that word. that there's a, there's something you're doing to also receive. Like it has a nice reciprocity to it when you're, when you think about the word Rhythm. So I really like that. Yeah, I think it's, and then finding in a rhythm between all that you're interacting with in that moment, what the needs are right now, how to, how to plan for or just, and it wasn't even, it didn't even come off as a plan. It was more of a This is going to be the time for refueling. Like it's just now a given when you're in flow like that. Do you find that you need, do you have practices in place today, like in your daily practice that also helps you stay in rhythm? Because I know that the construct, even like you said, is antiquated 888, but also the fact that like this system of employment and hard work here in the US is based on work hard until you can take your vacation. And then if you think about all these people who are still in corporate environments where they have been so overextended because of what's happened in the pandemic, especially if they were essential workers, et cetera, where they're not getting any time off, it's really life, it breaks your life, really, you know? And so I'm curious what practices you have in place for daily rhythmic moves.

Yeah, I, I think there's a, I think you need a macro and a micro strategy. And so you're talking about the micro. So with inside the day, like most people, and I'm, there's so many people that talk about a morning routine. I have one as well, but I'm, I'm really introverted. I mean, that probably doesn't surprise you. You know me well enough. And so how I need to recharge might look really different than someone else. And so I think we also need to give ourselves the permission to explore what does recharging look like. So for me, being where we are now up in the Northwoods of Minnesota, I love being outside. I can smell the evergreens and the pines. I walk the dog and I just spend time outside. So I do that at least once a day, probably twice. I found that, I think you believe in this too, is just moving your body, changing, like if I've got maybe a two hour time chunk where I'm working, I'll go for about 45-50 minutes. I've got to get up, get my eyeballs off of a screen and walk around and try to change my energy and then come back to it. And I have to be really careful what work I place when. So depending on what I need to do, like at the end of the day, you know, I've got a wife and I've got a four-year-old who my four-year-old never stops. So at the end of the day, my battery is drained a bit. So I've got to be careful what work is done at the end of the day, it really can't and shouldn't be creative work because I'm kind of tapped creatively speaking at the end of the day. So I have to understand, like, how do I best recharge? How do I structure my day so I'm utilizing my energy appropriately inside that day?

Yeah, I think that's such a great framework for our listeners to, to absorb and observe. Right. For themselves, like when when are you rhythm rhythmically ready for what it is that you're trying to actually extend in your day, extend yourself out towards and what do you need in the receiving standpoint for yourself? I myself have also my daily rituals that I have to have my mornings to myself. And I am I mean, people think I'm an extrovert too. And I would I am an introvert as well. I like intimate and deep if I'm going to spend time or I could talk on a stage to thousands, but then yeah, I'm out of there. It's like, I'll shake some hands and thank you, thank you. But for my energy to be refueled, I need my me time to recharge, to then go back out there and do it again. I think it's a really great awareness for us to leave people with is to really think about what works best for you at what time. And even if you feel, and I always love to give people this permission, because I find that permissioning is the one thing, especially if you're feeling that stuckness towards burnout, right? Is to just make it at least smaller, like five minutes. Like, don't think it has to be, I have to dedicate this amount of time these hours for it to feel right. Sometimes it can be as simple as just closing your eyes, taking three deep breaths, and just giving yourself that space. And that takes less than a minute to do, but you are Fueling yourself in order to go after what it is and your intention then towards what you go after is much clearer to follow through. You know?

Yeah, you could almost just grab a white piece of paper and write down, answer the question, how do I best recharge? And then write down anything from, it could be 10 seconds up to a longer exercise or some sort of activity or movement or something. But then you've got your list of, okay, off the shelf, what do I need right now? I've got like 15 minutes, I've got an hour, what could I do for an hour? But I think ultimately when you talk about rhythm and we have self-care, I think what's most important is if you're not doing work you love that lights you up, that's in alignment with who you are, you're going to have a really hard time finding the rhythm. So I think that, and you're great at this, Kareen, but helping people identify like, what's in alignment with me? What do I, what am I good at? How do I use those gifts and those talents? and then do work that matters. Like if that's not the bedrock, all the things that we're talking about might help, but it's just gonna mask the problem. You've got to address the root problem, which is the work that we did a couple years ago and was on several years in the making, but that's the number one thing you have to address first.

Yeah, I love that. Cause I mean, my show and my presence and I guess my mission in life is to help people align what they love with what they do. All right, so I love that you just said that, but it is giving yourself the space and also the dialogue sometimes to just get it out. As opposed to the have to list, you know, it's like, what do I desire? When I have that innate voice talking to me saying, what about this? What about this? And it's just whispering, hey, remember me? This is what, remember, this is what it is, but you're leaning too hard into the have to. to's and the shoulds, like I should do it. That energy for me is so triggering, I can't even tell you. And I love when I can help people have those breakthrough moments of, okay, but where'd you learn that you should or you have to do that, you know, that it has to be you. Because I love delegation or just stopping it. Yeah. It doesn't fit anymore. Yeah. That's a really great point. And I do think that there's so much value in that clarity, but like what you did was you invested in yourself. to make sure that whatever path you're moving forward on is something that has that clarity with it. And then the actions follow, which is really great. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, so tell our listeners too about your group experiences now. So the reaching beyond experience. And I know you bring amazing men together. And I think it's still just for men right now or like what's the plan there?

Yeah, yeah, it's still for men. So and that was not by design, like I had men mentioned earlier, I just had 10 people show up the first one. And what was apparent and obvious to me was that there isn't really a good or there's not a lot of containers for men to just be like, this is what's going on in my life. And I was like, oh, wow, I've gotta, I have to keep doing this. So, so that's what came out of it still for men. I do foresee in the future it will be, it will be mixed and or couples. So, but But for now, it's men. And being a teacher, being a teacher at heart, loving the process of uncovering learning for people. The best way that I can do that is if I can get them out of their office, out of their day to day, out of their house, out of their comfort zone. And that's where the real magic happens because the last one, for example, in October, I had guys pit a NASCAR. They actually got to pit a race car. So I could go in front of these 12 guys and say, Let's talk about teamwork and communication, right? And everyone's gonna be like, okay, but I could throw them into an environment where no one's good at it. So we immediately need to drop the wall and say, okay, I suck at this. I'm gonna be vulnerable and just step into it. And then once they experience it, hey, let's talk about what you learned about teamwork there. And then how do you implement this in your business? And that to me, like that's how we learn. I think we learn by doing, we learn by experiencing, we don't learn by someone just kind of lecturing to us. and it gives me a way to introduce exciting new experiences to people, have people kind of mastermind and network in a really unique and fun way, celebrate themselves, have a tribe that will cheer them on and hold them accountable. And so it's kind of a combination of all those things because I've been to a lot of personal growth conferences and leadership ones in my corporate days and we sit in a, you know, a conference room.

Yeah, you've talked that.

Yeah, you've talked that and you're in a round table and everyone's got the same pen and, you know, Marriott, Notepad and there's no windows in the room. I'm like, I'm not, I'm not inspired by this. And so if I'm not feeling inspired, you know, I'm not going to have a lot of insights and I can't be the only one that thinks this way.

Yeah.

So, and just being, being male, I know that inside the heart of, of men is adventure and getting outside and being in nature. So I think all those things that when I, when I can bring them together and bring like minded men, there's just a lot of magic that happens. And it's been incredible so far.

Yeah, I remember when you were designing it and the need you had even just for yourself, being a stay-at-home dad, running your own businesses and then, and needing that connection. And now, because we're all so remote, I think men need it now more than ever to feel, because us as women, you know, in our energy, we have that, like, I have so many groups of all my female friends, and we're constantly checking in and we're like FaceTiming each other, or we're just sending each other crazy. you know, emojis just to like know that we're all there. I don't know that that happens for men. Like, you're, it's, it's, it's such a different energy that you, and a lot of men actually need to be invited.

Yes.

Why? Which is why you, you, your group, your first group got filled up so quickly. I remember celebrating every single one you had, with that first one, but it makes so much sense that it has become a really solid men's group for you, because, to start because that's also what you were, you were craving.

I needed it.

Yeah. Yeah. And so that's so beautiful. And you're such an awesome facilitator and educator and all the other great accolades. But men really do need this and, and continuing to invite them into it. So as you are one of my male listeners, make sure, you know, you connect with Kyle and, and check out the reaching beyond experience that he offers because it's so, you need it. Like, if someone hasn't told you, you need it, if your loved ones aren't telling you you need it, you need it. I'm telling you right now because When you come back from that type of experience of connection with other men and where you can go into a safe space where judgment is left at the door, like you will thrive so much further when you come back into your daily reality. And you'll be giving so much more of your gifts to everybody in your world when you can take your time out to do that.

And there's the rhythm.

Yes, that is a beautiful rhythm. I love that. My heart's beating for it, you know, and I know others need it too. So that's so great.

Thank you.

Let people know, Kyle, the best way for them to connect with you, learn more about you.

The best way is Instagram, Kyle underscore Depius. It's a tough one probably to spell and look at and think about, how do I say that? So that's probably the best way. I'm also on Facebook. I've got a website, podcast as well. But the easiest, and I love to connect. I think that is one of my superpowers is really just encouraging and cheering people on. whether it's a question on debt or debt elimination or money mindset or work-life rhythm. I love to get DMs, so Instagram is the best way to do that.

I love that. And we'll definitely put all that in our show notes so that folks can connect with you. And as a thank you for being on my show, I always love to give my guests time as well as an opportunity for me to support you in something going on with you. So is there anything that you would like to ask or talk through that I can support you on today to thank you for being on the show. Yeah, I'm gonna turn my hat on the other side.

-Oh, he's getting serious, y'all.

You can't see him. I better shift too. I'm ready. I'm ready to catch a ball.

What are you throwing at me? All right, Karine, so I will be writing a book. That's my next thing. It is the book on this topic of rhythm, not balance. Yes. And so my question for you, because I know you've written books. And you, how much of this should be done and how do I do this thinking with the end in mind? So my story, along with your story, is, is burnout. And so I think is writing the book or, or how do I write the book with the end in mind of, I believe that there is a space for me to enter into corporate America and talk about corporate culture and how to help your employees avoid burnout by understanding rhythm. How do I best do that, thinking the end in mind and writing a book?

I love that. So the cool thing is that you have methods already that you've leveraged. And what I think is more of the guiding force for what you're trying to accomplish is to lean more into the getting into in rhythm versus avoiding burnout. People don't ever want to admit, you know this, you were on the burnout track. You didn't call it burnout until you were after it. So you can't, you won't be able to engage the audience that you're trying to engage. And you'll also, I feel like it's going to be constricting for you to focus on that as an end result versus wanting to get everybody in rhythm daily, like having that as the guiding theme of the thread throughout your book. but also using burnout stories to show when it's not in rhythm, this is what happens. And really displaying like, what is the repercussion if they don't get into rhythm? If they're not in work-life rhythm, then you're kind of, it's a very then easy flow of case studies, your own example, people you've worked with in your group, and, and had experiences shifting them into rhythm. If it's, it doesn't always have to be hitting the wall to figure that out. And you're trying to catch people before they hit that wall, but they will never call it that, you know, like burnout is not defined until you're burnt. Like it's, it just, that's it. And, and unfortunately, that's not what people are looking for. They're looking for how can I optimize today? feel my best doing it, making sure that I'm not a raging douchebag when I show up to everything, like whatever that is, or attract the right relationship, have deeper conversations with my kids, like think about the value of your methodology and what you're trying to get in the door with. And then I would use that terminology of when it's not happening, what happens as the identifiers, but not your true, what's the word? Like essence or ethos around the book.

Yeah, I see what you mean.

You mean?

Can I ask a follow up?

Of course.

Can we just keep going? This is so much fun.

I know. I haven't talked to you in so long. Let's do it.

Okay. So when you're writing your books, avatars, did you have a profile and did you have multiple profiles for those books? Because that might lead into this question I asked before, too.

Totally. So lesson learned on the first book, I would say it was my never wrote a book before, didn't know what the heck I was doing. It was like a year process and didn't have a framework at all. So. So in that one, I would say the avatar for the end of that was. Was more about me wanting to help others. avoid certain things happening to them by leveraging the methods that the lessons learned that like helped me propel forward. Yeah. So, you know, that's why it's got six habits to up level your life and it was the end result. But I'll tell you that I wrote a really crappy book of about 300 pages that I, when I got through my first editing draft of that book, and I was reading it myself, I was like, who gives an F? Like, literally, as I'm reading my own freaking book, I was like, no one cares, Kareen. Do not go any further with this version. But what it gave me was the clarity of, okay, if I'm not excited about it, then why would a reader be excited about it? So at that time, for that first book, I was like my client, I guess. Like, I was the avatar. Like, would I want to read it? Mm-. Because I, I was still very much in the, figuring it out what kind of book I wanted to write. What I love about the framework that you have and the impact you've already have is similar to like my second book. So my second book was very poignant. It was, it was about how do I attract leaders into my ethos, into my ecosystem to really leverage not only the, the skills and tools and methods I have, to build high, highly collaborative and interactive leadership teams because I believe in the ripple effect of leaders that we don't have enough of those conversations anymore. So I had a true avatar for that book. And then everything that I chose to share, I saw them in everything I came together content wise. And that book was written in two months because it was that clear to me. And it's my books are like handbooks. Like I am someone, if I want to read, I'm not a fiction writer. I'm not a, I can tell stories around things that have actually happened, fictional stories for me, not my game. And so I, I found that when I was super clear on the avatar, the methods that I have, I did, I realized I was doing it over and over and over again. The book just like flew out of me. And I had started October and I was already published self-published by January. So when you have that clarity and you have it in you because you know the framework, you've tested the framework, you know the methodology, it's then figuring out the flow and the case studies to put in there and the attraction that you're wanting for that credibility that it gives you, but also to then do the speaking circuit game if that's what you want or just have something to give somebody. Like I wrote both books, books is like, this is something for you to have, you know, like if it helps you in any way, fantastic. But it was a really great exchange of these are the baseline foundational learnings of how to work with me is how I did that.

Okay, so you're saying I should write a book in order to write the book. Write a book first to get to the book.

So what I did was because I didn't even think, Kyle, that I was a writer at all. And I don't know if you know this about me, but I I was judged heavily as a child because English was not my first language in the school system that I was like less than. I wasn't a good reader and I wasn't a good writer. That was a constant story that I had to battle, you know, through my childhood. So when it came to the goal, the stretch goal for me to write a freaking book, and I guarantee there are still typos in my book, you know, like, of course I'm not, because I'm not a perfectionist, right? It's about you getting the impact. That's what I care about. It was I challenged myself to just simply write for 10 minutes a day. And for the first half of that year, for the first book, it was like, just get it down on paper, whatever that thought is, whatever comes to mind. And it gave me then like a catalog of information in a really crappy formatted way, you know, that turned into what I ended up scrapping, but I pulled distinct things out of it to then write the book. So whatever your method is, it's just if you're gonna be a writer and write a book, just do the writing. The book will come, and you'll see it very clearly once it's all together for you.

I think I'm similar to you. There will be typos. I mean, I noticed you put an extra e in your first name. so there's a lot of typos in there.

That was my mother's fault. Come on, Mom.

Come on, Mom. That's funny. No, that's helpful. I mean, I'll be starting the process of it, so that gives me a lot to go with. So I appreciate Jim. And I think a listener, there's gotta be a listener out there who's like, I want to write a book, so they're gonna get a lot of value from us going back and forth there.

Oh, yeah. I mean, it is, It is, of course, my thank you for being on the show. But I, you know me, and one of my gifting is problem solving or helping someone get further faster. So anytime and as you're going through the writing process, just feel free to reach out to and be like, Hey, I'm stuck here. Would you do this that way? Because it is, we overwhelm ourselves with the end result. We forget to just start doing. And that's the same thing about the rhythm you're talking about. so now you're just going to be adding writing into your rhythmic day.

Yeah.

And, and eventually an end result of something tangible to hand, someone else will come out of it. Yeah. But totally enjoy the process because, it doesn't matter if you're not enjoying it, you know, no one, it doesn't, it doesn't matter. And anybody who takes anything from us, whether it's our podcast episode, your podcast, like, I love being interviewed on your show too. they're, everyone's going to take away what they need. This process, when you're producing your own content, it's really about what is it that you want to relay? And I'll tell you, too, that the editing process refines it all. So don't worry about being a little bit muddy up front and feel messy because your editor, you will come in and help you groom it, you know? Yeah.

I don't think I'll have 300 pages, but if I do, we can help refine it.

It doesn't need to be. Yeah. My books ended up being like less 101. The first one's like 113 and small print. Like, you know, it's like you will figure out the volume of it all and the format and the design. And I have a great book cover designer if you need one, too.

I will.

Yeah. I'll ask you.

Yeah.

No, it's just so great though, because it is a good topic and creativity. so many people have gone through so much too in this last, in their lives, in this journey. But this last year, I think helped people face what they want to provide in the world that I'm sure there's someone listening that's like, hey, maybe I should write a book. So I love that. That was your question. No one has asked me that yet. So that was beautiful. That was beautiful. Good. Well, thanks for being on the show, Kyle. And thank you listeners for joining us today. Of course, we want to hear from you, so do not hesitate to let us know your takeaways or your feedback or any follow follow-up question that I can help answer on the show, and I will see you in the next episode. Thanks, Kyle.

Thank you.

Wasn't that such a great episode? I know you got amazing takeaways from that. What I would love for you to do for me, if you can help me extend my reach, is go ahead and subscribe to the show so you get the latest notifications. and listen before anyone else. Also, if you could go ahead and post your review, your five-star review will help me get other people interested in this conversation and extend my reach of impact. Most of all, I would love for you to share this with your community. It means so much to me to have you as a listener, and I would love to connect with you. So if you have any questions, questions you would like me to answer on this show. Go ahead and email hello@carinewalsh.com and my team will make sure that I get your questions so we can get them answered on the show for you. Thank you so much for listening today and I'll see you on the next episode.