Beth Segaloff and David Kessler on loss of a Fiance

If I can find us live. It's funny. People see me, Beth, looking down at the phone, and they're like, you're not paying attention. I'm like, no, no. I'm trying to just see everything. I promise I'm not multitasking when I have people on. I think we're so used to seeing people multitask.

Join me. Say hello when you come on. All right. We should see us in a moment. Let me see if I see us.

I don't.

I don't see us yet, but we'll be appearing hopefully.

Say hello when you're on, if you would.

I see us. There we are. Okay. And people are saying hello. All right, good. Well, very good. I'll give folks a moment to come on. I'm going to turn my printer off. So it's so funny. There's no vaxis faxes these days. But I get like a fax call during the fax call. All right. Yes. Like, I get a fax. Like, who sends a fax anymore?

From where does it come into?

Who knows? Just. I think it's just like a sales call comes in or something. Wonderful. Let's see. Shirley's here from Pennsylvania. Mimzy from San Francisco. Pat. Hey. She says both say hi to us. Gregory's on. Gregory.

Hey, Greg.

I told your story the other day. I should. While you're on Greg's story, I don't want to say now. I said it's him, and I don't even mean to say hi, Greg. I thought we needed a laugh, so I told a story about him. Greg, I'll tell you later. But I did tell the story about you because we all need a laugh.

Yes, for sure.

All right. Karen's here from Illinois. Tarzana, Connecticut, Virginia. Beef. Virginia Beef. Virginia Beach, Atlanta, Connecticut. Canada, Pennsylvania, Illinois. St. Thomas, Albany, Connecticut. Wonderful. I'm so glad to see everyone on here. Just so you know, if this is your first time coming on. I say hello to people. They tell me where they're from. You don't have to, but just in the age of disconnection, I think it's nice when we have this connection and acknowledge one another. So if you're new, just know we come on this time or one hour earlier each night, and I have a different guest because I want there to be many, many voices. There are many voices in grief, so I want to bring them to you about different losses. Beth is going to be talking to us tonight about death of a fiance. And even though you may go, I don't have that loss. I promise she's going to say something that's universal. All our guests do. There's a part of grief that's so universal, even though our own pain is maybe unique. So every night we have a guest. They're recorded. There have been amazing people on. Liz Hernandez talked about death with a loved one from Alzheimer's. Kim Goldman talked about your loved ones, just not a statistic from the O.J. simpson podcast that she did. Confronting O.J. tomorrow night, we're going to have Melissa Rivers talking about the death of a parent. She's had two parents who have died. Joan Rivers, obviously her father, also died. Death by suicide. And she'll be with us tomorrow night. Tanya Wright's going to be here from Orange is the New Blocks, Orange is the New Black, talking about a brother's death. So people like Beth and Melissa, I mean, these people are all showing up because we want you to know, in grief, in this time when you're so unseen, you matter. And we're going to find a way to see you, even if it's virtually, and witness your grief and witness your pain. So some of you say hello. You can also be in the background. Just a couple of things. I wish this wasn't true, but it's interesting. I saw they put out a bulletin from Facebook and then it literally started happening. Someone came on, started asking people to private message them. It wasn't even a real person. There is no reason in this group for. For anyone to have a private message with you. We talk here. This is the place to have discussions. No links, no memes. We're going to use our words because your loved one's death is so personal, it deserves words, not a link. Here, check out this meme. We're going to talk to one another. And please, please, if you get someone who says private message me, report it to us right away because we do not want anyone to take advantage of you. And it's sad in this world that they will do that. So one of the things I like to just start with, we're all here because someone we love died. So if we could just take a moment of silence to send them love wherever they are in our heart, in heaven. So join me, if you would.

Thank you so much. I don't believe when they died, we quit loving them. And I don't think they quit loving us. So this is a really interesting topic. I'm so glad you're here tonight, Beth. And it's really interesting because I think of what you've gone through as what I call disenfranchised grief. Disenfranchised grief is any grief that gets minimized, that gets judged, that gets seen as not real grief. And I suspect that happens with death of a fiance. So would you just share, unfortunately, what brought you into this world of grief?

Sure. So I was engaged just to back up a bit, actually, just so there's some clarity. I. I was married first and have a son who's just turned 16. And after my. We got divorced and after my divorce, found a love that was instant and true love to, like, to the core. And he was. We had our wedding date set for June of 2010, and he was deployed and killed in Afghanistan October of 2009. And so I.

You know, I entered this world of unknown and despair, and it just been, you know, my world was turned upside down. And yeah, I think that the label fiance is.

It has been sort of complicated because it's left with a lot of.

As everybody has, but a lot of the supposed to's and the should haves and the future that did not happen, that had been planned. So I think there's a lot that has gone along on that journey.

And I would imagine. Have you gotten a lot of. And I'm just thinking about all the different things you could get.

Oh, my gosh. It would have been worse if you were married. Isn't it good you weren't married yet or, well, were you really close or. I mean, all those things people would say as if, like, well, you're not the wife yet.

So, yeah, for sure. There was definitely a lot of, like, oh, well, how long were you together? That's it. Or a lot of. A lot of that that happened, which would leave the conversation, like, just then you're. You're left with that sort of abruptness and not sure how to. How to process that. And so that did. It never questioned my relationship or our love, but it. It did bring a sense of added stress to feeling like I had to explain to people. And I think also just being connected with the military, because we were not seen as married, so, you know, legally with the military, there was a lot of, like, dismissiveness.

Right. I would just imagine that you must feel at times a little less than seen, like a wife would be a legitimate widow. Mm. And you're sort of less than that.

It did feel that way. It did feel that way. And even now when it's like, I feel like sometimes I just say my husband, because saying fiance, you definitely get the, like, I feel like there's judgment on the Other side of. Right. You. Well, you weren't married, so it's not as something that would be the sense that I would get from a lot of people.

And I'll tell you, I know a few people and have a few friends that have had the death of a fiance, the death of a boyfriend, the death of a girlfriend, and it does feel like their grief ends up being a little more complicated. And I think all grief is complicated on some level. But, you know, just like. And I've heard this many times that questions like, were you close? How long was it? How close were you to the date? All those are like, I'm sort of assessing how much grief or sympathy or compassion I'm going to give you, because Lord knows I don't want to waste it if it's not a legit loss yet.

Yeah. I would say that I got that feeling from a lot of people. And even now it just feels weird to say, like, my fiance. Right. And especially. And it's been quite a long time. And so the label.

I had to sort of wrestle with that or struggle with it over time. And it's shifted over time, but it does. It. It still sometimes feels odd.

And. Right. Like, I wasn't seen as a real grief or like, kind of like. All right, it was, you know. So you weren't. You were just engaged, right?

You were just engaged.

Yeah.

I always say any sentence that starts with a least is going to be minimizing.

At least. Not this. At least. Yeah.

Right. So. And Beth, you're a mother, social worker, you're a yoga teacher.

Did any of those help? Are those things you picked up on the way to help you? How did all your training help in that? Or did it.

Yeah, I mean, I think. And you talk about this a lot in saying, you know, that when your son died, you. You were the dad, not the grief counselor. Right. So I can connect with that in the way as I was. Right. A social worker. And I worked in schools for 16 years. And I don't know the answer to that because I think I was in such deep shock and pain.

That it was. I imagine that a lot of those skills I did put to use. But I think that I also. What I found myself doing is I was able to hold myself enough together, I think, during the day, at least, for my son. And then I would give myself that permission to, like, be really messy and just be in the. In the depths of it when. When I was not with him, when he would, like, the minute he would go to sleep. But I do Think that over time.

Those. Those other, you know, being a yoga teacher and other things, I found such solace in yoga, so I became a yoga teacher. I found such solace in energy healing, so I shifted to that. So I think that a lot of those. Those things did support me, but it's. Oh, it was over a lot of time. A lot of time, for sure.

Right. And.

Can you talk a little bit about what it's like for your son or has been like for your son? Because it wasn't his dad.

Yeah.

Yet, you know, I think it's sort of the same thing that it's. It's a little different.

It is. And I don't want to speak for him because he's 16. And if any of you are familiar with teenagers, you know, that would be horrendous. But I think part of the love story.

Is in part of their relationship.

And it's something that I hold onto because our love story is a little bit. I mean, I think it's special.

We met. Our families live in this little tiny beach community in Connecticut, and the houses are like, all right next to each other. And actually my dad and his mom are law partners. And so we've been family friends for a long time, but on different paths. I was married, and he was a little bit younger. And then we were in the right place at the right time. And it was sort of this instant. Literally the next day, my friend who was there said, you're going to marry that guy. And. And I remember, just because it's. I get to share it because now I have space, because it's special to me. But I, you know, I will always remember. And this is. Goes along with the supposed tos. Three weeks after we met, he said, I have good news and bad news. And he said, the good news or the bad news is that I'm deploying. And the good news is that we're getting married next summer at the beach. And.

And.

So. And then I just. And then I remember when he and my son first spent time together, it was the same. It was just that same feeling of that instant. You saw it. I remember we dropped him off at the airport and. And my son was 5 at the time and just crying. So it was just this, like, okay, this is my family now. This is my family. This is what I have been waiting for my whole life. You know, my dream always was like a mom and to serve people. I want to be a mom and I want to serve people.

And what we had created, I had that. I had that For a short time. And so.

I don't know how I got off on that tangent just to share this about my son. So I feel like there I know what I witnessed when he was five and I know what I witnessed when he was six and seven. And as he's gotten older, I'd have to be really cognizant of like, whose sadness is this? Is it mine or is it his? And I felt like I just had to be very aware of that because again, he has a dad who's really in his life and super close with and so. But you know, our families are still very close, mine and Ben's family. And you know, they. I'm fortunate in the way that, you know, they, they introduce me as their daughter in law and they see my son as a grandson and it's unique in that realm. So I do feel in my little insular experience, they do see me as family.

So I feel fortunate for that.

So I have a few questions, then in a little while I'll tell people if they have some questions. So.

How long has it been?

It's been almost 11 years.

11 years, is that right?

2009. Where are we? Right.

I couldn't tell you what day it is anymore.

I put your story in my book, Finding Meaning.

You've had challenges, like anyone would imagine.

We'll talk about what's in the book in a moment. But what would you say are challenges or obstacles you've had to sort of deal with in grieving fully and living fully?

So after Ben died, I remember telling myself that the, you know, people started using the word like legacy. Right? And so I remember telling myself that the best legacy that I could leave is to live my best life. Right? To be in a life of joy and love and.

Service and. And so that's what I kept telling myself, but that was really not so easy. And I think that the hardest part, I mean, there are so many hard parts, but it was.

That's important that like there's so many hard parts.

Right. I don't know what to say. First, the heart. I mean, it was the, I think so much the feeling of abandonment, the feeling of this was a man of the deepest integrity.

And if you asked me what I felt around him in the beginning, it was safety. Safety and being loved and seen and all the things that, you know, you wish for and.

For then him to go to Afghanistan and be killed in such a horrific way. It's like all that where you broke that promise, right? And so.

Just that having to process.

Right, You Know, I don't make a promise. And that's when you talk about. Even my son, like, I would never make a promise of, like.

Of just. We just don't know what is to come. And the overwhelming.

That feeling of abandonment and disappointment and expectations not being met are ones that stuck. Really stuck in my body. And.

That'S been hard, and that's been a.

A long.

Journey.

And I think, also, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just throwing this out there.

Someone in the service who died fighting in Afghanistan.

Isn'T there almost an expectation of, you're this widow who will be honoring him for the rest of your life.

And you're not quite the qualified widow, but you're in some way seen that to begin to live and date again. Did you ever have feelings of disloyalty?

Should I.

Can I. I did. And I. I had both. Right. So I definitely. In the beginning, for sure, I was like, I'm. That's it. Like, I thank God I know what true love is. I experienced in a short time what some people don't ever have. And so, you know, how grateful am I? And I'm gonna live by myself for the rest of my life. I'm gonna have, like, a gazillion, you know, whatever animals, and just not. I will be just me right in my. And when my son leaves, like, that's it. I'll be done. And over time, that. That did change. And I did. I have dated. I want to say a lot, but, like, that doesn't sound great, but I have been in a number of relationships that have not lasted, and for various reasons. But, yeah, I mean, it's.

Because I feel like this is the perfect time for this, the story.

All right. So I want to say, you know, I saw you sort of correcting yourself when you said a lot, and my guess is I. You know, I want to remind you, you've been living for 11 years without him, not 11 days. So, you know, notice how we're, like, afraid it might be too much.

Yeah.

And so you and I talked. This is the part that went in finding meaning. In the book, you and I talked about your desire to have love again.

And you want to tell Elise what the part of it or.

Sure. Well, I. We talked about this when we were at Kripalu. I think that I was, like.

On a date. You know, I'm dating, and I'm having a hard time meeting people, and. And then I remember calling either you or Paul or maybe both of you at the same time, and I was. Had just come from the safety deposit. The bank, and I spent quite a bit of time in the. In the. With, you know, they give you a private room when you want to bring something out of the safety deposit box. And the only thing that I have in the safety deposit box is my engagement ring. And so every once in a while now, this was probably two or three years ago, so this was, you know, but I. I decided to. Every once in a while, I like to be with my ring. So I went. I went to the bank, and I sat in the private room, and I just sobbed and sobbed to the point where literally the people were like, oh, my God, are you okay? And. And then I went. And then I went about my day, and I felt worse.

But it was wearing his ring or you were just holding it or what?

I wore it. I. I wore it. I held it. I. You know.

Okay.

And. And then when we were. I think. I don't remember how the conversation continued, but it was talking about dating, and I don't know how the folded flag came up.

Well, it was something about. You were saying that.

Oh, I know.

Go ahead.

I had taken. You asked me about what I have done with his things, and I said, most of them were put away, which is. Which is true. I said, but the flag is still in my living room. And you said, well, I talked about if.

If, you know, it's been years and you feel like you're okay with loving again, you feel like he would want you to love again.

I said, you know, having a flag front and center in your living room.

Might be hard.

To bring new people in. And it's really tricky because, oh, my gosh, I have such respect for Ben serving this country, and I. I don't even, you know, feel okay about saying, move the flag. And I have a flag for my mother that I have.

And it's in a special place in my closet, and I spend time with it, and that's decades, but I was worried about.

How that would play out and. Go ahead.

Yeah, I mean, I. It's. It's tricky, right? And I did put the flag away. And I think the best way I can describe it is that I was dating somebody once, and there was a time Ben had started a nonprofit before he passed, and we continued running it for a number of years. Still running, but I'm not part of it anymore. But we were doing. I was a run, and I was wearing the T shirt for the organization, and I was dating somebody at the time. And there's an organization called Wear blue run to remember. And you honor servicemen. It's absolutely beautiful. And I remember he said to me afterwards, I feel like you're more Ben's widow than my girlfriend. And I was like, you know, like, what. What do you do with that? What do you do with. When I went on a date with somebody and he said, well, I googled you. And just so you know, I'm never going to be that guy. And it's like, well, how. What am I supposed to do with that? Right? So it's trying to process my own sadness that he's not my husband.

And know that what I've sort of come up with in my. In my heart is I'm ready for the next love of my life or a different love in my life. And that's. That's something that I've been.

And sometimes when those decisions are so hard that it's been years. Should you move a flag out of front and center in your living room? One of the things I might say is. And I did say this, you know, can we get some wisdom from Ben? And what if tables had turned, it had gone the other way, and Ben was sitting there nine or 11 years later, alone with your memorabilia front and center, and a date walked in and saw all that. I said, what would you from the great beyond say to your fiance sitting there trying to date and find love again? And you said you would say, do you remember?

I don't remember exactly what I said.

You said, oh, for goodness sakes, give a girl a chance. Like, really, you're gonna make her sit, you know, there with, like, stuff from me dying?

And I. And I. That's. Over the years, that has really changed. And I wrote. I would love to just share. Like, I remember the first guy that I dated, and I remember telling his parents about it, and he. And they looked at me and they said, beth, we're rooting for you.

And that just touches his parents. Yeah, they're like, beth, we're rooting for you. You know, and that always sits with me. And it's just. It's. It's. I don't know if there's a right or wrong answer, but I. I do keep wondering. You know, it's a question that I'm always in, you know, why hasn't somebody come into my life? And it's that. And I'm on a. I mean, I've been in, like, a very deep personal dive.

You know, my life has turned upside down. And so it's not. And what I can say is, while I haven't found love in a partner.

I have found love in ways that I. That above and beyond have come into my life.

And just a self healing and a self love that.

That has expanded.

Right.

Are you open to take if people want.

Of course, yeah.

All right, let's look at a few things here. Kathy says, I found love again after the death of my fiance. The dating game was difficult at first and I was afraid to love again.

Beth says, I don't know if I can ever move on again. I came from a divorce. We both had, we both had our own kids and love them all. No kids of our own. Together we're so happy to find each other. Just feel like my. Just feel like my chance finally for happiness is now gone.

So to say that I actually the language I would ask like I. Instead of saying moving on, I say moving through.

Right.

That helps me a little bit. And I can only speak for myself but.

Rather than I'm saying like I'm moving on from him, I can just say that I'm moving, I'm moving through.

And we all have those different words that we find out like mine is moving forward. Moving forward with my son's love.

Katie says you and Ben both value service and integrity so much. I love that you have continued to deepen your practices honoring him.

Thank you.

Vikram says, good morning from New Delhi. Glad to have you here from far away.

Yeah.

Washington.

Carolee says a loss of any love is truly painful. Engaged or married. Love is love.

Yes, I agree.

Susan says, I lost my fiance too after a 10 year relationship. Why are fiance's men or women as if they are not considered a real death, real loss.

It's true that, you know.

Yeah, it's. I definitely, you know, went through a lot of guilt around what I didn't give him. Right. It's like we didn't. He didn't get the gift of the wedding or the. And I felt like that there was a lot of guilt around that and there was guilt in he actually wanted to get married before he left.

And I felt like, you know, I don't know if that's the best idea for my son, like to have us get married and then you leave. I felt like that would be really confusing for him. And so I've carried a lot that guilt around, like around. Around that.

But you didn't know he was going to die.

Of course not. Right.

Hope Bagley says, oh my goodness. She says, my brother was diagnosed with the coronavirus today. I'm heartbroken. We're sending you Lots and lots of love. She says, I'm sorry for the loss of your fiance.

It's much sort of a name for loving. Some fiance is as much of a name for loving someone as marriage. It's just the first part, not any less than the rest. It just grows. Thank you, Hope. Sending you much love.

Chelsea says, I'm 31 years old and feel like my world has ended. I will never find love or a husband. The thought of being with someone else makes me nauseous. Chelsea, I would just ask before I sort of say anything, or Beth does, I'd love to know who died in your world and how long ago, if you wouldn't mind sharing that. Kimberly says, I lost my boyfriend one year tomorrow. After nine years together, I'm afraid I won't find love anymore.

I just want to acknowledge that. I understand that feeling of I'm not going to find love again. I just. I understand that feeling.

Right. And.

I think if you can, the way you and I did, ask if the tables were turned, what would you want for your loved one? Would you want your husband, wife, fiance to be alone for the rest of their lives? You know, for me, that wouldn't be love.

And I also think, you know, it brings up questions of loyalty and disloyalty. So, for example, when I talk to spouses and I say to them, you know, when they go dating again would be disloyal. I say to them, you actually completed your vows, right? Vows were till death do you part. You completed them. Death has happened. You didn't get the vows. And I don't know that you get that sense of completion that you did your part, you were with them and love them till death do you part. And yet you were.

Yeah, that goes into the same. Like, I didn't get that moment to just say that vow. Correct. And it's. It's. It took time to.

To really move. Move through that belief and that. I always knew that, like, our love was enough, but I. It took time to sort of let go of that.

That expectation and disappointment. And there are still times where it's like, why. Why didn't I just get that moment? It's not fair. Right?

Chelsea said, my boyfriend died Saturday. We were planning on getting married in the fall. He was 38. Chelsea, Saturday is a moment ago. You know, any way you feel is the right way to feel. I am so glad you're here. Yeah. So glad you're with us. We're sending you much love. You're just in the worst part of it. You're going to be there for a while. You know, one of the things I shared that Diane Gray said to me the other night that I would say to you, Chelsea, is that, you know, you're in the darkness, you're drowning, and you're going to be there for a while, and at some point you'll hit bottom and you'll have a decision to make about whether you love again and live again. You're not there yet. You're going to be where you are for a while. And you know, the thing about grief is there's no right way. You just feel where you are. So we're sending you much, much love.

Yeah.

Chelsea says, I had just gotten out of a horrible six year relationship with a man, and this man was the greatest gift I could have received. And he was taken from me.

I'm so sorry.

Yeah. So brutal. So brutal. A lot to say about all that in the future, but for now, just so much love. And I'm so glad you're here and we're going to be holding you virtually in our arms with all the love.

We have just to say brave that you're here. It is, it's just so brave to be here.

Just that you're showing up and just letting us be with you and we just appreciate you so much.

Interesting. Just the concept of time. I'd love to just touch on that a little bit. There are people who are saying like, Saturday and 11 years. And, you know, I remember meeting widows, like a year out and in a, in a group that I was part of, and they were maybe four or five years out and I'd be like, wow, why are they still here? You know, and now here I am, 11 years. And time is a really bizarre thing because sometimes it's like, wow, you know, 11 years has gone by. It's like a lifetime. And then I feel like it's 10 years that I haven't seen him. Oh, my God. You know, like he has missed so much of our. Or what. What would have been. And so I know when I go down that, that, that hole, it's, it's not good. It's not. It's not pretty. And I, and I do let myself go there. So I don't bypass the, the hard stuff. But it's. Time is a very bizarre.

Right.

Concept, I find.

Right. And I think we all have, we and society have judgments around time. You know, they're, you know, when people say to me all the time, how long will I grieve? How long will I grieve? My Response is always, how long are they going to be dead? Yeah, if they're going to be dead, a long time, you're going to grieve a long time. Now, it doesn't mean you will always grieve with pain. My hope is that in time, people can grieve with more love, Chelsea. As if we couldn't love you more. Oh, my gosh. Chelsea just said thank you so much. It's even more difficult now. I'm a nurse on a Corona floor at a hospital. Thank you for your support. Oh, my gosh, Chelsea. Thank you.

Thank you for being here.

Yeah. Thank you for keeping us safe and thank you for saving all of us, Chelsea. I am just so in awe of the nurses and doctors and, you know, you're a social worker we often forget about in the hospitals. The doctors and nurses are there, but so are the chaplains and the social workers and the nurses aides and the lobotomists. I mean, there's so many people showing up now.

I actually love to just share like a really. Again, interesting, like, connect the dots when you talk about the helpers, you know. Ben signed up for the reserves August of 2001.

September 2000. September 9 11. I was a social worker and I was living in New York City, and I ended up working for the Red Cross, supporting families who were affected by 911 and supporting the families needing services and getting them support. And it's. So when I look back and I think about the.

How things have connected, and then eight years later.

You know, two men were knocking at my door because of a war that started eight years previous. And then there were people that were supporting me in that same realm of.

Support due to terrorism.

Right.

And it's just when I, When I look at it from sort of the, you know, zoom out and look at that piece of it, and then I sort of circled back and doing some other. Some other work. But it's. It's really just.

It's a mystery and it's.

It's moved towards meaning what you talk about a lot.

So. All right, here's a question from Beth that she says, there's another Beth. There's a few. Beth says. That's what I want to know. Are we widows? Even though we didn't make it to the altar?

It's a great question. And I think you just use the word that you're comfortable with. And I've had to sort of let go of the judgment if whatever I decide to use. And sometimes I say husband and sometimes I say widow. And I Know that people judge me. I've heard them say, well, she's not a widow. And it's. And so.

I.

I just use what I feel comfortable with. And I feel like a lot of times when people have comments and this is like a whole other piece, but it's like, it is usually their issue with not know, knowing how to respond to your story or your grief. And the amount of time that I spent, you know, either taking care of somebody else or explaining my situation.

Where I could have just been focusing on, like, it's love. And if somebody has a problem with me saying husband, then.

But that's time. So I feel like I change.

You know, there are so many things that I think people can relate that everyone in grief has to come up with the wording they're comfortable with, and everyone else, what they think of it is really none of our business. I know it's easier said than done, but, you know, the way I look at it is that.

Parents have to deal with, how many kids do you have? When a child dies, you have to deal with, are you a widow, are you fiance, husband, what is he? And you get to change it and you get to do whatever's right. You know, I often say too, you know, just another example, we get to decide this is our story and who deserves what. When, you know, I say, if I'm in the checkout of a grocery, which isn't going to happen anymore, but if I'm in a checkout of a grocery in a long line and there's tons of people behind me and someone goes, how are the kids? That moment doesn't deserve the whole story. You know, that moment I get to say, fine, thank you for asking. I'll fill you in. Sometimes a lot's gone on. Take care. In the same way that it might not. You might be in a moment that doesn't deserve, well, I'm. I'm a fiance, but that, you know, it might just be, I'm a widow. Thank you. Take care. I mean, it might just. That's all that might moment might deserve.

Yeah. And I think that's the word. Discernment comes to me and I feel like discernment, you know, when we're in a place of, like, deep grief, discerning how you're going to respond is not as easy. So I feel like the best advice I would give is, do just what feels right in your heart and have compassion with yourself and say what you want, because it's, It's. It's your story. And if people are Going to judge it. And again, I know that's easier said than done. This is, you know, years of practice.

But here's the thing. You're going to have another chance when somebody's going to ask you again. And if you want to say husband, you say husband. Sometimes I say, you know, my. My beloved.

Right. I think that's the thing is. Is like even each one of us, we don't know what to say. I mean, it really is trial and error. What another parent says. I don't. I have to really try it on. Cynthia says, my husband died suddenly on February 5th. No funeral or memorial. This all hit so fast. I'm an X ray tech in a hospital, so I have so much to deal with, too. So. Cynthia. Oh, my gosh, first of all, February 5th is like yesterday. And the idea that then you didn't have a funeral, a memorial, because of COVID is heartbreaking. And just like I said before, people like X ray techs, I mean, you are the heroes in this moment. And just, you know, I think of the word bereaved. It's a word that comes from an old Latin word that means robbed. Cynthia, you've been robbed of a husband, robbed of a funeral, and now you're just in service to others. And our heart goes out to you, sending you so much love. And I'm glad you're here.

Pamela says, darn, I just got on. Will I be able to access this later? Yes, it'll be under videos or announcements. So I lost my fiance a few months before our wedding and really wanted to hear Beth speak. You will get to. It's all recorded. Kim says, thank you, Beth. Love this. It does change sometimes. It's best friend, husband, fiance, and I don't share with everyone. Carla says, exactly. It's our journey to share. Thank you for how you explain this, too. Sammy says we all have the power to tell our own stories. I love that people are just coming up with the different things that they do. Amanda, I just say love of my life because boyfriend seems so minor. I think there is something about boyfriend and girlfriends that, like, it almost doesn't work in adulthood. You know, it's like, you know, I feel like my boyfriend or girlfriend, like, are you 16? So I don't think it holds all.

That it is, but it's love. And that's really.

So. Beth, you know, I think in so many ways, Ben served his country. And your loss has served our country, too. So, you know, I. I send you so much love in your journey. And as we talked before, I just know that.

From everything I've heard about Ben, he would want you to have a life of love that you grieve fully and live fully. And I love and I'm inspired by watching you heal others. You're doing yoga and grief yoga and coaching people and so many things of service these days. That's really amazing. And a social worker, a counselor at all that. So I just honor all that you've been through and honor who you are, and I'm so glad you're in my life.

Tell people how they can find you. Tell them about all the things you do.

I do want to share that, but I also just want to. You know, there's a lot of. I just want to touch on something that a lot of people say, like they've been, like, grateful certain. For certain experiences in their life that got them to a point. Right. I don't. I don't ever imagine saying that I'm grateful for his death, ever. What I can say, though, over time is that.

I've been to the darkest of the dark, right? The, like.

Not knowing if I wanted to live anymore because of the pain. And I've been to the lightest of the light, and there is something in the middle, and it has taken.

It has taken connection and reaching out and.

Showing up. And I think that I just want people to know that there is both. There is the dark and then there is the light. And it does take time to practice and to see all of that.

I'm not grateful ever that I don't get to spend this life with him, but I am grateful that I feel like I can speak more from the wisdom than the pain this many years out. And.

Anybody who I trusted, who would be like, beth, why don't you try this? Or how about this? Yes, yes, sign me up. I'll go, I'll do this, I'll do that. I'll do anything that will make me feel better. And so I guess it's. I guess just something that I wanted to leave people with, too, is that it's.

Just hold on and ask for help. And when someone. There is always somebody there, even when it feels like there is not, and to just be kind, as kind as you can to yourself, because this is, you know, it is. You feel like you're. You're. I mean, I felt like I had been broken, broken, broken. And it's sort of this, like, fall apart, put back together, fall apart, put back together.

But I just.

I love that speak from the wisdom more than the pain that you've learned to do that, to speak from your wisdom more than your pain. That's beautiful. All right. How can people find you in the world?

How can people find me in the world? So Beth Segaloff.

Is my website. I, you know, I.

As I started with saying before it's people would suggest different things to try for healing. And so I started receiving energy work and that like made enormous shifts. So I became a Reiki master and I found yoga again. But yoga as a way to. I don't know how many yogis are out here if you're not into yoga. I also am an athlete, so I went to yoga to stretch really. And what happened on the mat is I cried and I cried and I cried and I cried and it was the first time that I allowed myself to just be and I felt held in that space. And so I decided to become a yoga teacher.

And, and really what I. Oh. And then I decided to go through a coaching program because again I was doing all these different things like walking on broken glass and walking on fire. So I became a certified firewalk instructor and a board break and glass walks and all different things to just again get through the, the pain to something else. And of course, if you don't know, I teach grief yoga. It was created by Paul Denison and that has been like just one of the most profound healing experiences. And really my intention overall is to just meet people exactly where they are, let you be seen, to be held, to be in a safe place. Whether it's through. I work with people one on one teaching.

Tell us the website again.

Oh, sorry. BethSaigloff.com Great.

Thank you so much. You are like just a gift to the world. And I love, you know when you talk about all the things you do, we're not one dimensional and I love that you have found so many dimensions of your healing and helping to heal others. Thank you for being on Beth. I so appreciate you and appreciate you.

Sharing your so much. Thank you everybody for being here.

So one of the things that I think is really important that Beth said and I think carries us through is, you know, there's not just the darkness, there's also the light. So I ask that people when they share here on this site and this site is for people who are feeling alone in their grief, have been shut out from their grief groups or looking for just extra support, had a recent loss, struggling with an old loss. There's no right way. We're not here to fix anyone because we don't think we are broken. We think you're in grief. And this is a natural feeling we all have, and we seek out one another because the outside world doesn't always understand. I'm on every day at 1pm Pacific time, then I come back on in the evening. Tomorrow night at 5pm Pacific Time is going to be Melissa Rivers talking about the death of a parent. We're going to also then have Tanya Wright talking about death of a brother on Saturday night and finding meaning. So this is a peer supported group. We ask you use words. No memes, no links, no go here, no try this. Just witness each other's pain. Share your hope, share your experience, share your love. I'm grateful for all of you and I thank you for the support and love you give one another. And I will see you tomorrow. Thanks. Take care.