Libby Boyce, mother of Disney star, Cameron Boyce & grief expert David Kessler - loss of a child

Few moments.

All right. I'm kind of blinded by the light. You can see, so pay no attention. The light's changing. What can we say? Let me just find us here.

All right.

Welcome, welcome. Say hello when you come on so we know you're here.

All right. I don't see us yet, but I'm hoping someone sees us soon. Let's see here.

All right. The finding the way into the group is always a bit of the challenge. All right.

Hopefully here soon.

Oh, some people. Let's see.

All right.

There's some people. They found it. Even though I haven't found it, they have found it. I like to just see and get the questions, but I will let that go for now. Let me try to move out of my glowing light. I guess maybe there is no place to move out of my glowing light right now. Well, I'm here. I'm glad you're finding us. I have Libby Boyce on with us. Hi, Libby. It's good to see you.

Hi, everybody.

Good to be here with everyone. So we'll just give folks a few minutes to come on. I couldn't find it on my phone, but clearly you're all finding it on yours. All right, we have people from. Whoa. I think that's good. I have no more bright light in me. All right. That doesn't sound right.

All right, we got people from Pennsylvania, Georgia. I would love if you could see.

If you could find this here for me.

So welcome, everyone. Welcome. New Jersey, Illinois, Michigan, Manitoba, Parsippany. I know Parsippany. I've been there.

So glad you're all coming on and finding us. Well, welcome. For those of you who maybe haven't been here before.

This is an online grief group that I started in response to COVID 19. And because so many people, whether you've had an older loss, a loss right before COVID 19 or COVID 19 loss, so many people found themselves without a grief group, and I wanted to make sure you had some support.

Excuse me. So we're here. Don't worry. It's just a regular cough. It's all good. You have to say that now.

So I'm so glad you're found your way. I go live every day at 1pm Then in the evening, we have a guest tonight, Libby Voices, our wonderful guest. So I'm so glad she's here with us who just shares their experience. And the main thing is we want you to know as you are here, many of you, isolated in your grief with all your feelings, that you are not alone at Least we're virtually with you and you're not forgotten. And it's so important that I think you do feel seen by someone. You know, I talk about grief must be witnessed. So we're here to do our best, virtually witnessing each other's grief. So one of the things I like to start us off with is just a moment of silence. You know, we're all here because someone we loved has died. So I like to just dedicate a moment to that person and to send them love wherever they are, whether they live in your heart or heaven or. You don't even know, you know, just. I don't believe when they died we quit loving them. I don't even think they quit loving us. So that love is still strong. And I don't believe death is strong enough to end that love. So if you just join me for a moment, just sending them love.

Thank you so much, everyone.

So, Libby, I'm so sorry you're in this world.

In the grief world, and I'd love for you to share about Cameron's life and how you came here and how you're doing. So I'll let you sort of take over from here.

Sure. So thank you so much for having me and thank you, everybody for tuning in. I guess.

I'm not going to assume that everyone knows Cameron was my son. He was a young actor who maybe if you have young children, they're familiar with him, but he's my son. He's my husband's son. He's my. My daughter's brother. And he was diagnosed with epilepsy when he was 16 years old.

Actually, he had his first seizure at 16. He wasn't actually diagnosed with epilepsy until he had his second seizure. He only ever had five seizures in his life. He always had them in his sleep. So we always thought he was safe because he wouldn't fall and hit his head.

Or drown. He had a pillow under his head. We thought he was not allergic to.

Hang on, Libby. We just lost your sound for a moment there.

Go ahead and try. You're back. You're back. There you go.

We thought he was safe in his bed. We were not well educated about his disease. He was on medication, but unless you have a lot of seizures, it's very hard to know when you're going to have a seizure. They can manage you better if you have seizures. They can try different medicines out and so on. Doesn't matter. Long story short, on July 6th.

We.

Had dinner with him. My. My husband and my daughter, the four of us. Had dinner. It was kind of unusual for us all to go out to dinner together. We hadn't done that in a while. We were together a lot, but we haven't gone out to dinner. And we had a really nice dinner. I remember lots of little things from that night. And.

He texted us that night about the lakers at like 12 midnight. And I got up the next day, I went to my yoga class, I came home, I was cutting watermelon. I can't even look at watermelon the same anymore. I was cutting watermelon. And we got a call that his friends who were his roommates.

Found him in his bed dead.

So obviously, huge shock. And those of you who have had a loss from COVID I've been thinking about you a lot because it's so sudden and it's so permanent. And I can completely relate to that. I am.

Devastated, obviously, but we have been able to have a voice and to take his voice with us and try to continue to change the world, which was what Cameron was all about.

It doesn't make it easier, but if you read David's book about finding meaning, it has given us meaning.

Emotionally. It's a roller coaster. The first few months, I would say I was completely in shock and not quite all there. And then like month four or five or six, it really just started to sort of creep ration, the.

The permanency of it, and that that person is not going to walk through my door ever again. And how do I. How do I go forward without feeling like my life has been ruined?

And that's the struggle. That's the daily struggle. It doesn't go away.

Having a really strong village and a support system has been incredibly important to me. And just to understand that who I was before Cameron passed away is who I am after.

And that's to people out there, who you were before is who you are after that. It just crescendos. It just becomes stronger in that way. And it's really just.

Finding a way to get up every day and keep moving. For me, it's about the love of my son. I do it every day for him because that's what he would want. And that's kind of how I best wrap my arms around it. But it's excruciating every day. I mean, there's no positive spin to put on it. Right.

You know.

I think one of the things that.

Just your story resonated with me and I think with a lot of people, you know, I can remember just hearing the news, you know, that the young Disney star had died. And seeing you and your husband on the, you know, the morning shows and talking about it is that.

You know, there is the sense of all that Cameron could have been and that future that could have been in front of him and just starting out and finding so much success. And, you know, he resonated with people in such a warm, loving way. He had so much heart. You could tell that. And I think so many of us, you know, and I often talk about. Even the word bereave comes from a word that means robbed, feel robbed of the future that they didn't get to have, that we didn't get to have. You know, I think that's what makes this so universal is that there was a future we lost and they lost.

Right. Besides the person.

Right.

Yeah. No, I can completely relate to that. I mean, that's like really a deep issue, was he was sort of at the pinnacle of happiness. You know, he's 20 years old. He had really found this very amazing.

Creative.

Life that he was just enjoying so much. He had just bought a house. I mean, he was really, you know, he was working, working in a profession that he absolutely loved. He had best friends, he was incredibly healthy. I mean, everything going for him. And he was extremely close to the family and really kind of integral in our being and was really going to take care of us. And so it's a loss on so many, so many levels. I will say I have found a support group, which I think is very important. So I'm really grateful that you're doing this, David.

And, you know, it's just really important to.

Think about what I'll say this. The people that I'm within, the support group, some people love to be in their child's room or whoever, their person. For me, the group is parents who have lost a child love to be in their room, love to sleep in their bed, love to see their pictures. That's not the case for me. It's hard for me to see the pictures. I have a tough time going into his room. But it's important that whatever it is that gives you any comfort, you embrace. There's nothing right or wrong here. I mean, I've learned so much on this journey. Nothing I wanted to learn, but here I am. And I've learned so much just about resilience, about, you know, how to just do what feels right and not do what feels wrong. But you have to, in some ways feel the feelings. You can't just lug them around and not think about them. But, you know, it comes in time. Like, the immediate. Like I said, for three months, I was kind of like in a blur. And I went back to work a couple weeks later, which has been really important to me. Why? Because I love my job and I have a support system there. So I do have a distraction that helps me. But every day, I mean, it rolls over me and rolls over me constantly. And it's really how you sort of go about your day to day and find the courage to keep going.

I think it's so important because one of the things I say that you've said in another way, almost more eloquently, is that, you know, we actually have to become our own grief experts. And it is trial and error. You know, people always say, what do I say? When people ask how many kids? You know, and all those things that I think anyone, or where's your husband? Or whatever it may be, there's no right answer. I think we all have to fumble and try this and try that, and what's right for me may not be right for you. And, you know, there's no. There's no rule on the rooms or the number of kids. There just is no rules in grief. It's a very organic experience we all have.

And people, everybody who's dealt with a loss knows that people in your world will say stupid things and, you know.

There is no right or wrong way. And that. That's really kind of the challenge for me. I love talking about Cameron. I don't want to go in his room. I don't want to see his clothes. I don't want to see his car. But I love to talk about him. So I don't, you know, when people shy away from that, and I can sense that, I tell them, no, no, let's talk about it, because that makes me feel good. That makes me keep him alive. We did start the Cameron Boyce foundation, which, you know, we do have assets in terms of, you know, his celebrity that help us to get his message out there because he was doing so many philanthropic things. And we were just so devastated to think of his loss, also the loss to the world, because there was so much he was doing and so much he was light, he was providing. So we've wanted to keep that going. And we've, you know, done everything in our power to do that and to bring. Shed more light about epilepsy and. And the fact that it's the most common disease that we know least about. And so finding that meaning, finding those things that make you feel good about or comfort I guess is the right word. It's so important and it's so individual. There is no journey that is just like the next. It's just not. And that's what you have to find.

And that's what I was going to. You know, the other thing I was talking about this earlier today is that even in the same family, if we all love the same person, we all grieve differently.

Yeah.

You found that in your family?

Oh, yes. I immediately wanted to talk to other parents who had lost a child. I immediately reached out for therapy. I immediately reached out for support. My husband, not so much. He got on his bicycle and he rides all around town and he's to himself. But that's who he was before. So this is not that unusual. And, you know, and my daughter has her own process. She's a very stoic person. She always has been. And so I see that in her now. But, you know, we have been able to band together and appreciate and respect each other's differences and allow that to be. And that's really. If people aren't doing that and they can dig in their heart to do that, it's really important to support whoever you're grieving with, because it's going to be a different journey for each of you. Even though you have this amazing connection, it can be a different journey. And it's not a time to be judgmental about that because it's such a different journey for everybody.

And I think sometimes I hear that, you know, we suddenly all have this loss, dealing with the funeral, which people these days can't even do, which is just terrific. But we're dealing with the funeral. There's a close knit. We're all in this horrible pain together. A lot of us drop our stuff. Your child isn't rebellious. Your husband's great, your wife's wonderful. And we're all in this loss together and. And we get in this grief bubble for a few days and we think, wow, we're all the same. And then everyone goes back to themselves and many people are left going, wait, wait, you're doing how you know.

Yeah, that's probably the hardest part. When everything goes back to normal and you realize that this is your new life and how do you keep going on? And some days are worse than others, and it is a day by day, and it's like, how do I wake up today and go brush my teeth and get dressed and do what I need to do when I've lost, you know, the love of my life or whatever, whatever it is And. And. And it is to say it's the hardest thing in your life. It's such. It doesn't. There's. To say that is just. It's not even. Doesn't even make sense because it's. It's just right. It's so profound. It's so profound, and it's a profound, profound loss, and you have to. Have to go on a journey to figure out how to get through it.

You mentioned the stupid things people say.

How do you deal with that?

I haven't had too many people say stupid things to me, but I've just heard from other people, and I'm not sure why they haven't. Maybe. I don't know. Maybe it's just. I work in social services, so maybe people are a little bit more sensitive. I don't know. I've heard a lot of things, but, you know.

People ask, how many children do you have? That's just what they do. There's nothing wrong with that. And so finding some answer that works for you.

But, you know, mostly I just sort of redirect people. So if they say, oh, I shouldn't talk, this is what I get. It's more like, you know, oh, I'm sorry. I forgot to, you know, I shouldn't have said something, or I say, no, no, it's okay.

It's.

Please, I'm happy to hear anything you're thinking about or have you. Or you have questions or, you know, you want to say something about Cameron. Please do.

Yeah, and I want to ask about that because one of the things I find as so many people feel that silence that you're in, like, oh, she's here. Cameron's dead. No one mentioned anything.

Let's. Yes.

Notice he died. We don't want to upset her. I'm sure she forgot by now. She looks like she's having a good day. So the things that you do, that's unique, and I tell this to people a lot, people get really hurt at that point. And I will say, you might have to be the one to tell them it's okay to talk about Cameron, to talk to you like you clearly do. But so many people in grief feel like I shouldn't have to do that.

They should know how to handle my grief.

What would you say? No, you got to be. You got to take a higher road. It's a tough situation. It's tough to talk about people. The thing about this kind of a loss, people can't empathize. There's no way to empathize until you've gone through it. So you will find when you talk to people who have had such a profound loss, it's a completely different discussion. Even my feet, eff, I love her to death. She can't provide that for me. I found new moms who have lost children that I've become very close with. They're not replacing my other friends. It's just a different relationship. It's a very different relationship. Grieving is a very, very lonely thing. It just is. It feels so lonely because you're all in your head and it. And it's nothing that anybody can make you feel better about. That's the issue. And that's a big one for me because I'm a problem solver. So it's like, how do I fix this problem? I can't fix this problem. I can't. So how do I keep going knowing I can't fix this problem, but also knowing that the love of this person that I lost.

Is so, still so important to me and he would just be so mortified to think that I broke down and couldn't continue to function.

And I also think about that. What? You know, I think everyone's different. I tend to sometimes go, what would David want? What would David know? That thing that you do too. I know some people are like, I don't want to hear that. And I think it's maybe too soon for them. And I don't think when we say they would want us to be happy, we're not saying bypass the pain. And I often think about wherever they are, I think they're in probably a wiser place than we are. So I think they would get the concept that we have to greet, grieve fully, and also live fully.

That's the struggle. That's the struggle right there. You kind of keyed in on it is if I go and I have a drink with my girlfriend and I laugh, there's a little bit of me that feels like that's wrong. But then if I don't do that, I'm not living. And I do, at some point started thinking about what he would want.

And that's been very important to me to keep remembering. And again, it's a different journey for everybody. So whatever that thing is that helps you to keep going on, grab it and take it with you.

Right. And I think there is such an underlying belief for so many people, no matter what your loss is, that somehow the pain is loyalty. And to ever have a moment of laughter or releasing the pain or having a good moment is being Disloyal. I'm not sure where that comes from, but we all feel it, you know, I mean, I certainly know I had to really sit down with that moment when it first hit me, and mine was around laughter to really think about.

Can you be a parent who still. I mean, if your child dies, can you laugh again? Can you live again? Is that okay to be? You know, I had to really kind of have that discussion with myself that, you know, as a parent, there's this thing about, yeah, you're never going to be happy again. Does that have to be true? Did you sort of wrestle with all that?

I think the biggest thing I wrestle with is guilt. And it's not because I think I necessarily. That I could have done something to stop what happened. It's just that if you're a parent, you keep your kids safe, right? That's what you do, no matter what. And so there's so much guilt. And I wrestle with it, and I. And it's. Intellectually, I know I shouldn't feel guilty, but it's just a natural feeling and so understanding that it's a natural feeling and understanding that I'm going to feel it and let myself feel it and just kind of put it over there, it's been. It's helpful because I can't make it go away. And maybe someday it will, because every day, this journey does change over time, and I'm hoping that, you know, it does go away because it doesn't feel good at all.

Have you ever thought about. I don't know if you've heard me talk about that we'd rather feel guilty than helpless.

Well, I think you did say that to me once, David, and it connected to me then, and it connects to me now.

I hope I couldn't. How could I have not been able to do something?

Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, that's one of those things you just grapple with, and it's kind of like you can't go through a day. If you go through a day without thinking about that person.

No matter what, there's a point where you go, oh, my God, that's. How could that happen? One thing that, for me, really triggers me and not my husband, just me, is the idea that he would be forgotten.

It just. It just kills me inside when I think about that. I try not to think about it.

Because it just, you know, his life had to be worth something, and. And I can't. I cannot wrap my arms around the fact that he would someday be forgotten.

It's such a challenging Thing that. That idea of, you know, it plays out so differently for all of us. It plays out for me. My son is buried fairly close to a pretty common freeway here in Los Angeles. So, you know, the first day I drove by that freeway without pulling off, you know, know, it was like, wait a minute. How could your son be there and you not stop? How could you drive by and, you know, then I would force myself to, like, stop in. And then I went, well, this feels artificial. It wasn't organic. I want this to feel organic when I'm here. Not like, oh, I stopped by out of guilt. That didn't feel weird either. And to recognize so much of him lives in my heart. You know, the cemetery is just sort of a place to close are, but, you know, it's certainly a focal point.

Yeah.

So it all plays out so differently for all of us.

Yes, it sure does. It sure does.

Lots of comments coming in. Do you have. If anyone has a specific question? Do you want to say something there?

Yeah, I wanted to say. Can I see these comments later, David? Oh, yeah, okay, good. I want to read them. I want to read them all. People. I. It's hard to read and talk and. But I will read them later.

It's funny someone said the other night, because I have a phone right here to read the comments. You look distracted. And I'm like, I am. I multitask.

Let's see. So many people are sharing their stories and their comments. And, you know, Libby, at the end of the day, I think what's so meaningful, it's just like in your support group, that the world may not get what. What's going on. And certainly you. And I don't know what it's like for COVID 19 folks now who are getting to have a ceremony, who weren't getting to be there with their loved one, but we can show up and take action and be here because everyone matters in grief. So, yes, I think that's so important.

And I've been thinking a lot about the people who are losing people through Covid, and it just. It tears me up right now. It's on my mind, weighs on me a lot. Knowing that anybody else would have to.

Go through this, write a question if you have it, and people are talking about the laughter and things like that. I'm curious, did you deal with anger?

Not so much. But, you know, they say guilt and anger are kind of commingled.

Not so much anger.

You know, I.

You know, I do feel as though the medical community let us down, but again, because I Feel like I'm not sure that we could have stopped what happened.

I have met some parents recently who have lost a child from drunk driving and that kind of thing, and the anger is palpable. And I. I feel like it's just such a different grieving process when it's a situation that was avoidable and that some entity came in and, you know, did something bad, and then now your child is dead. I think it's such a different grieving process. That anger is just at the core of those situations, and I think it's probably a lot harder.

Right, right. Yeah. We had Kim Goldman on the other night, who, you know, her brother was murdered. It's kind of like, you know, how can you.

Angry forever, angry forever. And how do you cope with that anger? And I hope I wasn't on, but I hope that she did discuss how she's learned to manage it. I don't know.

Has. Interesting. One of the things that we talked about and her and I have talked before about this is like I just said to her, when I go to look up your picture online, every picture of her is an angry person, and she's actually not an angry person. Has a very full life, and she honors her brother and has a wonderful son. But it's interesting how we want to reduce people in grief to the angry sister who's still bitter, or the sad mother. We want it like everyone only gets one adjective. Yeah. What are you? Are you the sad mother? The angry mother, the sad sister?

But that's people. That's people who have not dealt with this kind of a loss that say that because people have dealt with this kind of a loss, they know. They know the complexity, they know all the textures, they know all the layers, and they know how to handle other people who have gone through a loss. Generally speaking, this is something. I have found that my best interactions for what I need right now are with people who have had this kind of loss. And it's sad to say that, but that's the truth. Not true for everybody. But for me, the moms who have lost a child, especially around the same age as Cameron.

You know, we just bond in a way that.

You know, you can't with somebody who doesn't have that kind of a loss.

Yeah, there. There's such an interesting mixture of, you know, if you've had a spouse die, if you've had a sibling die, there's so many similarities with other people, and then there's a part of grief and pain that's just universal and. And then there's also a part that, you know, you and I have both had children die. I still. You could talk to me for the next 40 years. I'm never going to know what it's like to have a son, Cameron, die. You're never going to know what it's like to have a son, Dave. There's a part of this that's unknowable by anyone else.

Yeah.

You know, anyone says, I want them to get it, I'm like, why would they get it? Who. You know, you've got to get it. No one's going to get it as much as you do.

And even, you know, between my husband and I, we get it to some degree, but he had. It's a different experience, so. Absolutely. I totally agree with that. My. The moms that I have befriended who've lost a child. There's. There's definitely vast differences in our relationships with our children, but it's still. There still is something knowing there that is very comforting to me. And I always come away from those conversations a little lighter.

Right. So people are talking just so you know, about, you know, they resonate with the loneliness and being angry or not being angry. People are proud of what you're doing. Shannon says thank you. Shannon's on who. Her dad passed away today. And she said she's stunned and angry. Of course you are, Shannon. And I'm just so glad you're here with us because it's not a moment to be alone, and we send you all of our love.

It's just so heartbreaking, you know, I see. And I'm looking at a comment over here about nothing matters. Why bother? Nothing matters. And I remember my husband said that right away he really felt that way, and it took me longer to feel that way. And I understand that feeling. I really understand that feeling way too well, actually. And, you know, you can't make that feeling go away. You can just take one minute at a time, one step at a time, one day at a time.

Things do matter.

In a different way. And, David, you said something to me when I. When I talked to you initially, which was, you know, it's still horrific and horrible, but somehow it changes over time. It's a different kind of pain. It's a different kind of feeling. And I've been. I'm the type of person who goes and wants support from outside of me, which is different than other people, different than my husband. And that is something I carried with me. So people say things that I sort of take with me and try to remind Myself of or your book really resonated for me and I underlined and sometimes I go in there and look at those parts because then you see you're not alone. Oh, he knows what I'm talking about. That's something.

That he got. So other people in grief have to get this. We're not alone.

Right. That's beautiful. Someone asked, do you keep a journal?

I don't. However, I have met a lot of other moms that do, and they absolutely love their journal and it's really important to them. For me, I'm so busy at work. That's sort of my distraction. I did write some poetry.

And you know that I did one time thing. I don't keep a regular journal. I think if I had more time, I would. Believe it or not, I'm working right now on the COVID issues in the homeless population. So I've been extremely busy since this began in mid, late February for us.

And I don't know, I thought about a journal and it's funny, Cameron always had a journal. I haven't done that. But I think.

Whatever comfort you get, some people like to write and that makes a lot of sense. And just putting down your thoughts and you'll see over time how that changes.

Yeah, it's interesting. Robin says, the pain softens, but there is. But still there will agree forever our child is. But still we will grieve forever our child is gone forever.

Yes, yes, that's the hard part. Very, very hard. And it's hard to reconcile that. Really hard. And I don't know that I ever will.

Patricia says, libby, I know you have a million things you loved about Cameron. Can you tell us something you really want us to know about him?

I mean, he was just joyful. He was extremely wise and he. I always say he was kind of like an advisor to everybody. We called him Switzerland a little because he always sort of made everybody. He was the guy everybody went to to kind of normalize. He was just a joy. He was not an in your face kind of here I am type of person. He really sat back and he was just so talented and just loved to perform. And it just kind of happened.

He was just an incredibly special human. And I'm not a very spiritual person, which is something that I wish I was at a time like this. But, you know, if there are angels on earth, he was one. There's no doubt in my mind if. If there are, he was one because there was nothing bad about him. He never said anything bad about anybody. He always was there to comfort people. He was funny, he was goofy, but he was just the warmest, sweetest, most giving person. I mean, somebody said something to me, he was at his memorial, that they came to a set that he was on, or they brought somebody to a set that he was on and they said, hey, can I take a picture with you, Cameron? And he said, no, no, you can't, but can I take a picture with you? And that was Cameron.

That's so sweet. That's so, so sweet. So.

Have you in your group, obviously you are with lots of other parents who are having the same type of loss.

Have you seen anything that you feel like holds people back? That just makes healing a little more confident, complicated.

You know, like today I talked about earlier how it's the most personal thing that will ever happen is someone dying. And it's not personal, that it wasn't done to us. It's not a punishment of us. And yet some people do feel punished or wronged, that something was personally done to them that helps, that actually hurts their healing.

You know, I think everybody has a different journey, so I can't really judge, but I will say that. And I think I said this to.

You and I wasn't asking for a judgment.

I know, I know. I'm just saying it's so hard to say, you know, but I do think, you know, if you're somebody who is, you know, suffers from depression or mental illness and you've dealt with a loss like this, it potentially could be a lot harder. And if you have not had cotton health, it's a really good time to get help because it will just be hard. I have noticed the thing about the group that I'm in is a couple people lost their children a couple months before I lost Cameron, and a few have been after, but generally around the same time frame. So that's helpful. But some of the newer. One of the newer people, she still just really in denial. And her. I think her daughter died in November, and I think that's really tough. But I also understand, and have come to really understand that denial is a tool.

And that sometimes our bodies.

Positive coping mechanism.

Yes, exactly. And that sometimes our bodies just can't take it and that it protects us with denial. So it's something I would say if it's lasts for a really long time, I imagine that can be a problem because eventually you do have to go through pain, and it's not something you go through and it ends. Like you said, it changes over time, but it doesn't go away.

Right. And the flip side of that question, whether you've seen it in your groups or you. What's helped the most.

It'S just not feeling like not alone. Just not alone. And it doesn't, it's not like I come away from the group and go, okay, I feel better now, but I feel lighter. I just feel like it's a place that I can just cry and let it out.

You know, especially when I'm so busy. I need time to just let it out.

Right.

I did see a comment here about the universe attacking, personally attacked. I know that feeling too.

Absolutely.

And yeah, I know that, you know, I totally. I mean, I still feel that way. How could this happen? Like, how could this have happened to him? It makes no sense. And the universe doesn't make sense. And that's the part of the journey too is figuring out that we don't have control, that, that we can't solve every problem. And, and that's. It's an awful slap in the face.

I had. I called it my really God moment. Really God, really this.

Like really. Yes, yes. I have that pretty much every day.

By the way, here's something Jessica asks. I have a lot to say about it, but I wanted to. Jessica says, how do you know if you're healing? I lost my 13 year old Maya two months ago and I do not feel healing is possible.

There's no such thing as healing in this. And don't look for healing. That's what I would say. Two months is very soon. There will be a lot of feelings over the next six to nine months and you just have to let that happen. By the way, my daughter's name is Maya and so I heard that name and my ears perked up. But yeah, it's. There's no straight line through healing. This is not a linear process. There is no right way to grieve or I'm going to feel this, then I'm going to feel this, then I'm going to feel this. And.

You can't look for it. You can't look and expect a certain feeling. You just have to live it and believe that at some point the waves will let out a little bit.

And the things I would add to that, Jessica, are, you know, Maya died two months ago, which in grief time is like 30 minutes ago. So, you know, of course you would feel whatever way you feel is completely all right. There is, there is no wrong way to grieve or wrong way to feel. And the other thing is just to invite you to look at what healing means to You. You know, to me, I think all of us discover a different healing. Healing to me is finding ways to remember and love and honor my son.

I think sometimes we get afraid. Healing means getting over them. My son was not a cold or a flu. I'm not getting over him. That's never happening. I'm never moving on. So for me, healing has a different, you know, definition. But it'd be interesting for you to kind of think about what does your healing, what does that word hold for you? Because there's many different definitions of it. You know, I also think about, to me, healing means that event, your loved one's death doesn't control you anymore. Like, I'm not defined by the day my son died anymore. I define him by his life and my healing by his life, not his death. So thank you. It's a great question and sending you so much love.

I also, like, feel like, you know, what will be a sign that I'm better? I know this feeling so well because you want to find something that can make you feel better. And, David, you said something to me, too, when I spoke to you the first time. Would you. You'll never feel fine again. You'll never be like, oh, life is great. Like, it is a different world, and it's never going to be fine in the same way it was before. It just is not. And so how do you figure out how to move forward, taking the love of that person and the courage that you have and continue to live? It's a challenge.

It is. It is. And one of my best friends for 30 years was Louise Hay, and, you know, the queen of affirmations. And Louise used to always say, all is well. All is well. And when my son died, I was like, all is not well. All is not well. And it took me a long time, and I remember even being with her and going, all right, all is well. But David is dead, you know, And I still feel. And, you know, Louise was like, of course there was no part of her that was ever going to minimize that or try to pour pink paint over that. Got that concept, you know, but we're never just fine again. There's never. We're good.

Yeah. Even though you say you're good, when people say, how you doing? Because it's just knee jerk. Knee jerk.

Right.

Let's see. Yes. People are talking about you. Never forget about the loved one that was part of you and part of your life.

Right.

What? With time, I have found a smile with warm memories of them. Absolutely. So I love, you know, just Watching these comments, people are just talking to each other. Rachel says, will you ever be okay again?

What do you think about that, Libby?

I mean, that's same thing as mine. I mean, no and yes, that's what I would say. No, it's never okay again because there's a hole in my heart. There's. You know, we were four, we're three now. Like, that's never okay. It's just not.

But I have to be okay. I have a daughter, I have a husband, I have a village that support. I have a family. I.

You know, I. I cannot get in bed and not get back out again. I just can't. It's not in my.

Did you allow yourself at any point to do that?

No, and I didn't because it just didn't come naturally to me. I don't know. You know, I was in such a daze for the first couple of months. I literally feel like I was kind of robotic.

And then. I know, like, very personally, you know, on New Year's we were in Scotland, and.

That was the hardest day. That was six months after. But it was just so devastating to be. I was in a hotel looking down on a big party in Scotland and just. I just cried and cried and cried. I mean, I've never cried so much ever. I mean, but all the. You could put all my tears over the past nine months, and there's nothing that even compares. It's mountains and buckets and buckets.

And, you know, I think we all have those moments. And I send so much love. So many people, they. They don't have anyone, so they are truly alone. And I can remember I had that moment. And I've talked about it before. My older son, who is alive, came over for Father's Day. I think it might have been, I don't know, the second or third year. And I was just in bed. Yeah, it was like, you know, he knew. I was so devastated. And it suddenly dawned on me. I thought Father's Day was ruined forever and ever. And then I got, oh, my gosh, he's here to be with his father. Like, his father's still alive. I actually have to show up as his father on Father's Day. And, you know, it made me have to pull myself together.

Yeah.

Because it's true. I had a son who died, but I had a son who was alive. And so many times, you know, we talk about, we don't want to make the dead more precious than the living. I mean, they're both equally precious. You know, all life matters.

So yeah, no, I can relate to that. I'm worried about Mother's Day, but we'll take it as it comes, right? And I. I will give my daughter a heads up, like, I'm gonna need a little extra extra. And she'll deliver, I hope. We'll see, gosh, what mood she's in.

And, you know, you can also say to everyone else, mother's Day is coming up. I need a little extra, you know.

Yeah, yeah, I know.

Everybody's gonna be thinking.

Well, people are really touched by your story, and it's just a testament to who Cameron was, and I'm sure he got a lot of that from you. So, you know, it's just. Is there any. I don't know. Does. Does. Is there a website about his foundation or anything we should go to or gather more?

Yeah, yeah. The Cameron boycefoundation.org is. I think it's dot org. Yes. Must be, right? Yeah. Probably you can find it. If you do a search, you'll find it. The Cameron Boyce Foundation. And we're just updating his website and doing lots of different things with our donations in terms of things that he was really interested in, which is wielding peace, which is basically helping kids, youth to have creative outlets as opposed to negativity and violence, etc. And you'll see a little bit about that. And obviously, epilepsy research.

Clean water for the world. No, he was no big deal. He was gonna. He was gonna make sure the world and he was gonna reduce gun violence. So that's what we're gonna do.

I just. One of the things, I so appreciate you taking the time to be on here, you know, people are talking about, well, how are you getting these people? It's not me.

No, but you're showing up right now for all of these people. You know, I just want to thank you. I mean, you and I just. We breeze through that. It feels like it's going to be like 30 minutes and then it's like, oh, my gosh, an hour.

Yeah. Yeah.

All. Thank you. And I know you showing up here for all those people who are alone, isolated, with all kinds of losses, just for us to say, you matter, you know, we care and you matter.

Absolutely.

Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.

You're very welcome. And I plan to read all the comments and, you know, all I can say to everybody is, you know that you are not alone.

Give yourself the space. Find your village.

And find what feels comfortable to you. Take it day by day.

Thank you, Libby. I so appreciate it.

Thank you.

So for those of you who maybe are new here, I just want you to know that we are here for you. 1pm every day, different topic that I sort of see through the feed. So if there's things you want to address, just put them in the feed and I'll look tomorrow night. I think we're going to have Tom Zuba, who's going to be here. He's written books about grief. He's had the death of a wife and two kids. We're going to have.

Beth Segaloff, who's going to be talking about death of a fiance. Then we're going to have Melissa Rivers talk about death of a parent. And even though you may not have these specific things, you, you see from anyone like Libby talking tonight, that we all, there's something universal about grief that we can connect with. And it's really remarkable the, the love you're showing for one another. I come on here, you know, one hour in the day and one hour at night, but the rest of the time this is peer supported. And some of you are in pain and we're here to witness that pain. If you're not in pain, you're doing okay. Please be support to the other people. It's okay to share if you're in pain. It's also okay to share if you're having a good day or you're actually finding some peace. You know, I think it's important for so many people who are struggling to see others who are finding peace in ways to honor their loved one. So I'm so grateful all of you are here. And if you have someone that you need know is alone, isolated, please reach out to them, let them know about this group, whether you share it on Facebook or Instagram or somewhere to let them know all these are recorded. They're here for you to see later. So lots of people with lots of great information. Thank you all for being here. I will see you tomorrow and I so appreciate your time. Thank you.