Tanya Wright of Orange is the New Black and David Kessler on loss of a sibling

Hey, everyone, David Kessler here. I have Tanya here with me. We're going to get to meet her in a few moments, all right? As you find your way, come on and say hello. I know it takes everyone just a few minutes to find us. I'm even going to see how long it takes me to find us here, which is always shocking that even I often am. Like, all right, how do I get to us? So say hello when you're in. Let us know where you're at if you want. Always good to see folks. All right, we've got. Hello.

All right, that's home.

You're a Brooklyn girl, aren't you?

I'm a Bronx girl.

You're a Bronx girl. Oh, my goodness. How did I do that?

Yes.

All right.

Pennsylvania. Where you from? Pennsylvania. My mother lives in Pennsylvania.

A couple people from Pennsylvania.

Yep. We'll have a few people coming in.

Yeah. Callie.

Hey.

You're good with this live stuff. I can already tell. I don't even have to.

Say hello as we go here. All right, all right. I'm trying to pull it up here so I can get it on my phone. Hey, there. You know what I don't like about my phone is I can't. I can't see.

I can't see on the screen the names, which is a drag. I'd always like to see the names, but I'll hopefully get it here in a moment.

Okay.

Welcome, everyone. Let us know where you're from, that you're here.

All right. Bronx, too. Hey.

All right. There you go. There you go.

People. Are.

Pam, you in Washington, D.C. or Washington state.

You are live. I like that. I haven't even found us on my phone. I might be giving up in a moment.

Oh, no, I'm good. Lori.

Hey.

Buffalo, Illinois.

Kathy from Texas.

Wonderful. Glad you're here.

Hey. Another New York. Yeah.

Oh, New Zealand. There we go. I don't even know. It's. It must be. What time is it in New Zealand? I couldn't even tell you.

Yeah, I don't know.

Couldn't tell you. Welcome, everyone. Connecticut. Great.

Yes.

So glad everyone's here and finding their way. I found us. Good. There we are.

There we go.

I can see who's. Who's who. Hey.

Michigan, Georgia, Delaware, Connecticut.

Yes. Mexico.

Rhode Island. Is that right? North Kingstown, Rhode Island.

All right. I was born in Providence, Rhode Island. It's funny, we're all born in the same hospital. If you were in Providence. All right, let's see. Hey. All right. Ann from Ohio. Hey. Robin from New York. Good, good, good. People are finding us. I'm so glad.

Yes. So, David, Tanya from the Bronx, Pelham Parkway. I knew. I know where Pelham Parkway is. I grew up on 162nd street in the Grand Concourse in the Bronx.

Means nothing to me, but I know you two know what that means.

It'll mean something for today.

It'll mean something, right? Very good. Very good. Well, I'm so glad all of you are finding your way here. You can see I'm on with the amazing Tanya Wright and her lovely energy.

People are coming in still. I want to make sure everyone who wants to get in is getting in. So good, good, good.

Yes.

Welcome, everyone. So for those of you who may be new joining us, I go live every day at 1pm and then come on in the evening with a guest. We are all here because of COVID 19. Shut down the grief groups along with everything else. And I think it broke everyone's heart to think you might be grieving alone. Whether you're struggling with a loss that's been around for a while, you recently lost someone or lost someone to COVID 19. We want to make sure that you know you're not alone. So that's why we're all here. We have wonderful guests who come on in the evening. So one of the things like that I like to do is just take a moment. We're all here because someone we love has died. And if I don't believe when they die, we quit loving them. And I certainly don't believe they quit loving us. So if we could just take a moment of silence in their honor to send them some love, if you would.

Thank you so much.

So I'm excited. Tonight. I have Tanya right here. You may know Tanya Wright from a lot of things.

Love, Tanya Wright in Orange is the New Black. You are Crystal.

Yes.

And you have had many, many other roles. You're an entrepreneur. You're a lot of different things. And you're a friend, which I really love.

Yes.

So I'm so glad that you agreed to come on and share your story and talk to us. So you're unfortunately in our world, too. Tell us how you got into the world of grief.

Well, I don't know if any of us get it. Gets into the world of grief with great enthusiasm.

No.

So about 16 years ago, I. Native New Yorkers, as I mentioned earlier. Hey, Yankee Stadium. Again, native New Yorker. And many years prior, I moved out to Los Angeles with little more than, you know, 300 bucks in my pocket. I had worked my way up as an actor here in Los Angeles. I had just purchased a home.

And I was settling down and really creating roots here in Southern California. My dad was here helping me do some things around the house. And we got a phone call.

And it was. I'm not sure who it was that called my father, but that my brother was shot and killed by cops in Pennsylvania.

And.

I don't recall a lot about.

Many years, subsequent years after. It was, you know, I call it a very watery period in my life. It was where I just don't recall a lot of things. And the years sort of just sort of weave into each other and.

It was. It is. Has been far and away the most devastating time of my life. I am the oldest of four.

And I took on a very maternal role with my brother. My brother was 13 years younger than me. My mom had me when she was very young. She was 15 years old when she had me. So as the oldest of four. And my brother was really like my child many ways. I remember pictures of us when we were growing up, when I was growing up and growing sort of more out of the house. He was just sort of starting on his way. And.

My brother was.

He was a good person.

And.

He had lots of hopes and dreams for his life that we talked about. I'd like to think that I was a person in my brother's life, certainly within the family that he probably felt very comfortable talking to freely. I'm an artist, right? So, you know, I. We're pretty non judgmental, very accepting group of people generally. And I always like to make it comfortable for people to talk. And my brother was very comfortable with talking to me. And I was very happy about that. It gave me great peace and solace. Shortly before he died, he actually came here to Los Angeles. And I remember very well we had a really a long walk around the lake here. And when we were talking about our hopes and dreams and he went back to Pennsylvania.

I remember one of the things that he was very concerned about in our walk was that he wanted to work and go to school and where he was living in Pennsylvania.

It was very difficult. There's really no public transportation for him to get around. And so I remember that. And I got a new car and I had shipped him my old car.

But surprise, you know, all I said, you had to just get insurance and registration and, you know, get some new tires. But I remember he was like. He thought it was the best thing that ever was.

And.

My brother died in that car.

And.

You know, shortly after his death, there was an investigation again. He was shot and killed by cops. And I remember in the investigation and they were trying to figure out how, you know, what, what it was that killed him. And I remember thinking, my God, I hope it wasn't the car because he crashed into a tree after he was shot. And I think.

And you know, you use the word guilt, David. Actually, you know, I've never used that word, but I would say that that's the word.

That was the word. That is the word. That has been the word. And after the death of my brother, I lost that house. I gave in the keys to my new car and I kind of checked out for a while. You know, my thoughts were that my brother wasn't here. Not very many. There wasn't anything that mattered. Certainly not physical things. Right. Things that I need to live in the physical space. And to be honest, I became very.

Interested in this world that. Where my brother was unusually interested in this world. And.

I was inspired to.

You know, I had to remind myself that I had to stay here.

And I had to really do a lot of things to ground myself because it's, it's a, you know, it's a world that's.

It'S interesting to me. It's attractive and for a lot of reasons. But I found great solace in a little known story in the Bible about two sisters named Mary and Martha. Two sisters who had a brother named Lazarus who died. So the brother dying really, really was something that really resonated with me. And I ended up making a movie. It's called Sisters of the Poopa. It's about two women who take a road trip to meet a mythical medicine man named Lazarus who dies. But.

You know, like I said, again, my brother's death has been perhaps the most, you know, everything. And I'm sure a lot of you will relate and understand what I say, that everything there is a life and then there's a demarcation in the sand, right? And so there's pre Baron's death and then there's post Baron's death and everything that happened when he was alive. And then, and then there's another life. And I struggled for a long time to try and get back a life that I had. And it was clear to me that that sort of life was over and that this was perhaps an opportunity to start something new, new life and a new way of existing in the world. And so, yeah.

Thank you for sharing that.

I, I brought up the word guilt because I remember one of the conversations you and I had had about And I think people will relate to us. If there's any. Any.

Piece in the story we had around our loved one's death, it often causes us guilt, that idea that he was in the car you had given him. And I know what our mind does. Our mind goes, oh, if I hadn't given him that car, would the story have been different?

Absolutely.

And you do something generous and loving, and your mind turns on you later for doing a generous, loving thing.

And yeah.

Yeah.

You know, I don't want to stop you if you do. You have a. Did that come up for you, that sense?

Yeah. Well, in addition to that, David, the thing about the car, then there were. There were a lot of other questions that came up. You know, the biggest one is why. Right. That's the one that, you know, that's a question that will defy. There is no satisfactory answer to that question.

But in addition to the why, there were lots of other things I was like, well, maybe if I was there, that that would not have happened. And if, you know, I knew that, like. And actually I felt really strongly if I was there, that that would not have happened, that I would have been able to protect him or shield him in some sort of way or divert him or stop this horrible thing from happening.

And then, you know, my brother came to me sort of in a dream.

Afterwards. And I remember in the dream I kept. I kept asking him, baron, are you okay? Baron, are you okay? Baron, are you okay? Almost like a kind of a hyperventilating kind of just non stop, like the way that my mind was racing, this question just kept racing. And I remember seeing him just look at me calmly, quietly. And he never responded.

But in that exchange, I got such peace because he was like. He was telling me that he was okay without saying to me that he was okay. And afterwards, I never asked why again.

Yeah.

You know, there's different versions of the story.

Yeah.

That our mind makes up. You know, and one version that I would add to your story, my guess is you have the day you first bought that car that you gave to him and how you felt about that car, and then you gave him that car.

And you gave that with so much love and it meant so much to him that I think about the story is he was surrounded in an embodiment of your love.

You know, it's. It's also.

It's devastating in our country. I don't know what the. The circumstances were exactly, but it's no secret in our country that.

People of color.

Have certainly been fatally killed by Police, Yes. More than people who are white. And you know, I am reserve police officer, specialist, reserve with the police here. And you know, I feel a. I know the good police, I know the people, the police who take an oath to protect everyone and keep our street safe. And if any part of that police department has failed you and your brother, I am deeply, deeply sorry.

I wish the world was different. And it is tragic.

What goes on in our world. And I know a lot of wonderful police officers who are trying to change that world.

Yeah.

You know, interestingly enough, I hold no ill will to the cop who shot my brother. I never, not one time did I feel any sort of anger or animosity.

This person.

And you know, I'm so, I'm in Hollywood, obviously.

Hang on, you froze there.

So in the creative field, I froze.

There for a second. So I'll speak to you unfreeze for a second. It usually takes a moment there. And you know, I just, I just.

You know. How old was your brother, by the way?

He was 25 years old.

You know, I don't know what the story is, but it's sort of like, you know, I know at the highest level your brother was being 25, whatever that looked like, and you know, good or bad decisions, no one deserves to die. I know the police were trying to keep the world safe. Good or bad decisions, people don't deserve to die. And.

You know, I am, it's, it's something that I stay awake at night a lot about.

Because I wish that our world.

Could mature in so many different ways. And, you know, I serve with the police because they do such. You know, literally no one I know gets up in the morning and risk their life the way a police officer does. Well, certainly doctors and nurses these days and whenever anyone misses the mark, and I don't even know if that happened in your brother's case in terms of not being and doing the correct things. It just hurts us all and, you know, breaking our heart for you, for Baron, for the police.

Yeah, my, my brother was shot at point blank range in the car and it was said that he was selling the police drugs. There were no drugs, there was no weapon.

And so he was shot in the car.

And.

He was trying to drive away from the police because he had been shot.

And the police actually said that the car was actually a weapon and that the car was being used to, to.

He was using the car as a way, as a way of being violent toward them.

But I'm pretty certain he was probably trying to get away. He Had a bullet lodged in his heart. You know.

So.

And I had, you know, I have two kids who, in their 20s, did stupid things. We all do stupid things. Sometimes with police around, we do stupid things and.

Tragic. Tragic, yeah. How, How. How. How are you? How did you find peace with that officer? Have you ever talked to him or know about him or know anything about him?

I don't. I don't know anything about him. You know, it's not really about him. Right. So it's, you know, the human being on the planet. And.

I, you know, like I said, I was very interested in the world that my brother is now in.

Right.

And so I think of things mostly from that perspective and.

Tell us about that perspective.

Well, I think that.

I think that people are used as devices in some sort of a larger.

Larger thing that we don't know that much about.

And.

You know, as much as I would like to think that I could have stopped my brother's death or somehow, if I would have been there, it would have been different. I know on some level, on some deep, visceral, primal level, that I know that that is not true.

And so.

You know, there's that human construct. We get very interested in circumstances and the external and doing and. And that. But it's really. I think it's all a lot quieter.

And. And not what we think it is.

And.

And that world, you know, after. After my. The death of my brother.

You know, that. That is. That is so much trauma to take into your family. Physical.

Space that I actually, you know, I hearken back to that time in my life. I had to almost. I call it like hovering like a balloon. Like, I had to kind of remove myself from the immediate sort of almost contact of that trauma and sort of float above it and sort of hover there, if that makes any sense. I know that might sound strange, but that is. It was a coping mechanism.

Because to take on that level, I would not have been able to take on that level of trauma directly. And so I had to almost view it from a bird's eye.

And.

I remember that space, and I can still always really recall that space. It's a very familiar space to me, a space of lightness and.

Just lightness.

How did the movie. Well, let me ask you. Did the movie bring you some peace and healing?

Yes.

So I've got to say that.

You know, we all deal differently with grief, and there's no wrong way to do it. God knows there's no wrong way to do it. And I am so fortunate to be.

To have chosen a space, a creative space.

Where I was, I allowed myself to.

Exercise that energy.

Right.

And in a positive way. For me, that was healthy.

But even more than that, that it would be able to help other people.

And it will. And you are, you know, your, your sharing the story and talking to us. It's helping people right now.

Yeah. So, you know, and I want to say to you, David, you know, I.

I have been so.

Invested in this space because I know that grief is a topic that we don't, as a society talk much about. Right. You know, people expect. You sort of get on with it. I mean, you listen, I'm. Look, I'm 16 years in, and it was like it was yesterday, right. And I feel so invested in this space, in, in my desire, my deep primal desire to help people.

And that's why I was so. Your book resonated with me. It was about finding meaning because it was.

It was really through that, the space of creativity that I was able to find meaning. You know, it's not an answer to the why, but it's almost like a. Okay, so now, boom, you know, and.

I'm.

I'm just deeply invested in this space. It's. It's important to me. And I, I do feel like I, you know, there's, there's a lot, lot to do here. So, you know, in addition to the movie, there'll be other things coming up as it relates to grief that I'm.

Talking, You know, that's, you know, one of the things I said to you is.

My goodness, I've written six books and I can never touch people in a broad way that TV and movies can.

Right.

So whenever an artist such as yourself wants to bring some of this to the masses, I think it's so important. And, you know, I always. Look, I am sure people watching here, we have all seen a movie or a TV show with a death. And I've sat there and I've watched it and I went, yeah, the person who wrote that hasn't lost anyone.

Right.

They don't know. Nope. Nope. That's not how. No, that's not how death happens. Nope. That, that's all an artificial story.

So when people who have walked through the, the fire want to come into this space artist and bring some light to this world and bring knowledge. I'm always so happy.

Yeah. Yeah. I do feel like it's like.

It is part of like my life's work. It's, you know, it's purpose and, you know, it's, it's, it's strange to even think that my brother's death has given me, you know, like, so pre Baron's death, you know, an actor here in Los Angeles. And.

You know, I had done a television series and.

I made some money. And so that was. That was the way that I was able to do these things that I was doing.

But after his death and literally after having losing everything, like everything I own and, you know, I say the word loss, but, you know, when I think about it, I think, was it losing or did I just sort of release was just not. Not a feeling of wanting to hold on to anything sort of external or that was. That was in this world. I just. It didn't. It didn't concern me that much. But I would say after his death, you know, I made the movie Sisters of the Poopa.

I wrote a book, Butterfly Rising. And I also created a business, a hair care business. And so I really. And all of those things were. It's called Harriet, by the way. Harriet. And so all of those things.

Were inspired by the one sentence. And that one sentence was, okay, not one sentence, maybe a couple sentences. So now that this thing has happened, Tanya, you're still here, right? What are you going to do with the time that you have?

And.

And then as a result.

There were so many things that were. Were possible because of that moment, you know, asking me, reminding myself that I was still here, right? And that, that I. And since I was still here, then that means I have some work to do. And. And so let me get to the business of doing that work, because if my brother cannot be here at 25, you know.

This is. This is not anything I would have expected, you know, that would be presented in my life any stretch, you know, prior to my brother's death. And I remember so well someone asking me this one thing, and they said, tanya, what is the thing that you fear the most?

And I'm a pretty, pretty tough girl, right, from the Bronx. You know what I mean? I don't. I don't, like, think a lot about fears in life. I think about, you know, let's get it. You know what I mean? Like, let's get it done. Climbing mountains, setting goals. I'm a very hard worker. I'm a very disciplined person and extremely focused.

When they asked me that question, I thought, what would be the worst thing that could happen? And I said, if something happened to a member of my family, that would be the worst.

And so the worst has happened.

And I am still standing. I am still here.

And you know what, what do I have to do. And I got a lot of clarity about that. And my life.

Expanded in a way, it really expanded. And.

I want to dive into that.

Yeah.

So.

You know, it's interesting. I. I had that time after my own son died that I really said to me, myself, my son loved my work. He would not want my work to constrict because of him. He would want it to expand.

Tanya, there's a lot of people who watch these.

And they're right with you. Right up to the point you saying.

And I'm still here. What am I going to do? There's a lot of people who are here who would say.

I can't go on. There's no point. Now that they're gone.

Everything'S ruined.

Yeah.

How.

How would you help them.

See their life still holds a story.

Yeah.

And their life is still as precious as the person who's died.

Yes.

And that they could live a life in that person's honor. How? What is there anything you could think of to say to them?

Well, there are two things that. That immediately came to mind, and I would say I would encourage them to.

Find whatever space that you can find in yourself. And we all have different words for it. Again, there's no wrong word.

All.

Any word. God or spirit or self or universe or being or space or whatever it is. That space that gives you peace.

That is ever present.

That is not changed by any external circumstance.

If you can find that space.

And listen to it.

That would be the first thing that I would say. The second thing I would say, and it has mostly to say to do with your last sentence about honoring the person. So if you can't do it for yourself.

You might consider doing it for.

Someone else's memory or legacy as an act of love and a show of faith.

And even, you know, again, no, I don't think any wrong way way of doing it. Whatever. Whatever. Whatever feels right and good to you.

But, you know, I think that those are the two things that those two things have really.

Really. You know, and I talk about this balloon feeling as much as it was a balloon feeling. It was the thing that kept me grounded is the thing that kept me love.

It kept you ground.

Yes. Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, one of the things that I often think about is.

It'S easy to get stuck in the eye and to sort of look inside when you're in grief and go, what am I supposed to do? There's nothing here. I'm just so empty. And I often think about the concept and Viktor Frankl Originally talked about this.

Life doesn't owe us. We owe life. So sometimes for me to kind of go, what could I give to life since I'm still a standing human being, still breathing, brokenhearted, but still breathing.

Right.

What could I give life? How could I still be used?

Yes.

And it takes me to a better place sometimes when I go, all right, let me look inside of me and try to find my purpose. I'm like, I'm brokenhearted. I can't find anything in here. But if I could go, wait a minute, since I'm still breathing, what can I do? Outward.

Yes. And you may not even arrive to that immediately.

Right.

It may take some time, you know, and it.

And.

And 1 year, 5 years, 12 years, you know.

It is. It is a rolling thing.

And, you know, I so appreciate your rawness in this and your vulnerability, and people are seeing your tears of love for Baron and you're missing him. And you're also an extremely happy, funny, full of life person.

Yes.

And.

You know, that part, I feel like, honors him so much.

You know?

Yeah, I. I hope so.

I mean, I remember being at my. You were literally at one of my last lectures before the pandemic, and literally, in a room, you sort of glow, you know, it's like there's Tanya just smiling and taking it all in.

Yeah. Well, you know, in some way. Yeah. I really enjoyed that day with you. You know, I didn't know what to expect.

So.

I just, you know, when you invited me to come, it was something that I was like, yes. Like, this is really wonderful because, you know, I've already identified. This is, like, purpose, like life's work. Like, this is your space. And so this was another way to understand the space. And.

It was such a wonderful day. And if grief can be inspiring to people, you know.

It'S possible, you know, if you could just leave just a piece open. Just that it's possible. It's not like you have to necessarily do anything, just maybe entertain the thought that it could be possible.

Well, and for someone on the outside hearing, wait a minute, you went to a day of grief with a grief expert and it was enjoyable, wonderful, funny. What? How's that?

It was wonderful. It was. I met so many wonderful people. We shared our different stories about our loved ones who had died. Many of them, obviously were therapists or people in the. In the community. And, you know, it was. It was a wonderful day because, you know, there's certain topics that I think when you talk to people about, like grief or dying, you know, there's something that drops away from any sort of facade or any sort of external thing. It is a very intimate subject, and.

I feel very comfortable there with intimacy.

And authenticity. And it is so funny that we're on social media, right? Because I like. I don't think I'm that good on with the social media, Right.

But because I am a person who really.

I feel like I live in the space of let's drop this shit, you know what I mean? Let's just talk real, right? What's really going on.

And.

I like connecting with people in that way.

Well, I'll tell you what works on social media is being real loving and being vulnerable and. And showing us your happiness and your sadness and all of you. So you got it. Anyone who want to ask Tanya any questions here? Lots of. Lots of really sweet comments. And if you have a question for Tanya, good time to write it. People are sending you love and prayers. Tanya, your smile's beautiful. Thank you for sharing your heart. Carla writes, grief is intimate. Shannon says, thank you for sharing your brother and his heart and your purpose. Sandra says, we all feel some pain.

Yes.

Let me scroll back and see here. Some questions.

Yeah.

And we have so many other people who are watching tonight. Beth Segalovs on who talked the other night about her fiance dying. That was really beautiful. Tom Zuba's here, who shared his gift. So I love that the people who are sharing up were showing up, were all sort of finding community with one another.

That's wonderful.

All right, let's see here. So Kathy says, my brother and only sibling passed away July 6th. Tomorrow is his first angel birthday. He was my best friend, my cheerleader, my protector. I've lost my identity. I feel so lost without him. And my heart is broken into a million pieces. I'm consumed and overwhelmed with grief and anger because he suffered and was an honorable and kind man. Tanya, I feel your pain. And so much of what you're saying about sibling loss resonates. How were you able to move forward without your brother and find happiness?

Oh, boy. Kathy.

Yep.

First of all, I gotta say I am so sorry about your brother. I know what that feels like. I know what that feels like.

I think that the answer is actually.

How are you able to move forward without your brother and find happiness? The thing is, I'm not moving forward without my brother. My brother is here. I'm certain he is here. Even now.

I liken it to a form that. Because I'm human. And here we are living in the age of COVID Right. You know, in this sort of human existence.

I, you know, but I know that energy doesn't die, you know, and so I know that my brother is here. I know that my brother may be enough be in a form that with my human eyes I can't see him. But Kathy, if you can go inside that place that I talked about earlier, I think you will find your brother there.

And.

So, you know, and also, I don't know, Kathy, if you have any siblings. I have three other siblings. And the way that I think also about my brother's death is like you just imagine yourself just sort of walking down the street, right, without a care in the world. You know, birds are whistling, you're looking at the clouds walking down the street.

And then someone says your name, Tanya. You turn around and they've got a sickle and they cut your arm off. It's like, oh my God. What. You, you know what? You don't even know what's going on. You don't even know if you feel any. Do you feel the pain after you've, after you've had your arm chopped off? You know, after the, the blood and, and the, the just the shock, the, the shock and the trauma can almost, it can take you out of your mind.

But that arm, that was my brother. Like, this is Tanya, this is Sheena, this is Clinton. Those are my other three siblings. This is barren. Just because someone sickled it off doesn't mean, you know, that arm will never grow back. It just means that I only have one arm and I have two legs. And so therefore I have to adjust that. That's, you know, for me it's, it's. I'm a three legged stool instead of a four legged stool, you know, and it's just different.

And the other thing is Kathy's brother died.

July 6, 2019, which in grief terms is like day before yesterday.

Yes, it is the day before yesterday. You know, with, I mean I. Cassie, for years after my brother's death, years I could not make sense of it. And I, and I wouldn't, I wouldn't encourage you to try to just be right now, I think just be and let yourself feel all the feelings. Right? Because some of it too, I liken it to being thrown into a washing machine and just.

You just toss, you are in the tossing phase where like it's all jumbled around and at some point the washing machine will stop.

And.

You'Ll be different, you'll be changed. But just let it have its way with you, you know, I think, and not rushing through, you know, I don't know. Obviously, David, you would probably know better.

Well, the only thing I would say is, and I think I might have mentioned this before, too, about, you know, that phrase, I've lost my identity. The reality is you've lost your brother physically, but the person who loves your brother, that is your identity, and that's still here. You still exist to honor him, to love him, to miss him, and that is the identity that you hold. The identity did not die with him. His physical identity did die, but you didn't. And you can honor him. So part of your work is rebuilding and reforming and regrouping and rebuilding an identity that does not leave him behind, but is rebuilt in honor of him.

Yes.

Carolee says, finding my purpose since my husband passed four months ago is gone. I hurt so bad, and I don't even want to try. Tanya, how did you move on? I don't know that you did move on. You kind of move forward. Do we move on?

I think you're exactly right, David. I think you move forward. You don't move on.

Any suggestion that I have left my brother 16 years in would be.

I have not, and I will not.

He is part of my life. He will always be a part of my life. You know, I always get confused when people ask me, oh, how many brothers and sisters do you have? I say, well, I have three of them. You know, I always say, one is one, one is not here, one has died, but he's still my brother. You know, but in the beginning, I didn't. It was very. Was a really confusing question.

But I've along the way, determined a way that was authentic to me and how I really felt. I really do feel like that is still my brother. He's not my brother because he. He's died. He's still my brother, and he's died. Those. Those are two. Those are two facts.

Brenda says, I have no siblings left or parents. I just buried my sister in January of 2020. I have no arms or legs left. I'm lost and crushed. So, Brenda.

It just happened in January. Our job is to see your pain and to just let you know we're all here with you and you're not alone. And of course, in terms of your immediate family, it is heartbreaking that you are on your own. And I hope that you will be here with us so that you can find ways to honor all of them and the time any of us have left here.

Sherry says, as a mom, having a front row seat to my living son's grief over the death of his only sibling and brother is so heartbreaking. I step out of my mom grief often when I see us hurt. Any advice on supporting him as a mom? I'm late. I apologize if you already addressed this. Well, we didn't, Sherry. So, Sherry, I will just say, and I don't know if, you know, anything happened with your parents around this, but, you know, as someone who has another living son, it's really hard for me to give my older son the dignity of his own grief because as a parent, I want to go in there and fix him and make him not hurt. But the reality is.

That'S his grief. I can't take it away. I can't fix it. I can't make it better. And the other thing is, our children, young, old, often will go to everyone before they'll go to their parents.

They don't want to burden their parents with grief because they already see how burdened we are.

I would definitely say I did not want to go to my mother with grief. It just never even occurred to me.

Siblings are an interesting group because.

We don't give ourselves permission to grieve.

And we're sort of over here.

Right.

So the parents or children or spouse.

And I always say siblings are often the forgotten grievers.

Yes.

You know, when you say that your brother has died or your sister has died, siblings have told me, the first question they get is, oh, my gosh, how are your parents?

And. Or the other question is, oh, my goodness, your brother died. Were you close?

Yeah.

I need to know if you were close before I, like, give you some sympathy.

Yeah.

We don't ever say to, you know, a parent who's had a child die or a person who's had a parent die, were you close? We're always like, oh, my gosh, that's heartbreaking. So I so appreciate you being here and talking to us about sibling loss. And let me tell you, you are someone. When we talk about finding meaning, I know you're going to be finding meaning that you're going to be sharing with all of us.

Yes. I look forward to it. And like you said, David, I really am.

You know.

You know, who knows how long we all have here on this planet. Right. And so I just. I really try to find the joy in the things, even the things that cause me pain. You know, I'm really good at making lemonade out of lemons, so I even.

Try to find joy in the things that cause me pain. Wow. Yeah.

Yeah.

And, you know, we talk about it. Whether you use the term Collateral beauty, or seeing, you know, the beauty of a sunset and in the darkest of nights or whatever that, you know, there always is some light in the darkness.

Yes.

So I so love you sharing yourself with us. Tell people who want to find you, want to know more about you, want to be in touch.

Sure. So, actually, I just wrote everything out here so you can see where I am.

Look, you're Tanya Wright. Twitter is Tanya T. Wright.

Tanya T.T. is what my grandmother called me.

Yes.

Instagram. Tanya. I. Tanya is hair.

Right.

And harriet.com.

Right, Harriet.

Yeah, very good. Harriet.com.

Yeah. You see my nails? This. This is. This is Corona Nails. This what happens when you don't go to the nail salon. It's a very real thing.

But anyway, it is. It is. We're all deteriorating together here. Yes. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Believe me, I'm. I've. I'm gonna be on a diet after this since a mother. Tanya, I love your energy. I love you being here, and I love your vulnerability. We're going to be seeing more of you in the future. So thank you for being here.

Thank you, David, for having me, and kisses to all of you out there. And I'm sending so much love and thank you so much.

Thank you. So for all of you who are here for the first time, just know I go live every day at 1pm Pacific, 4pm Eastern. Then in the evening, we have another guest all the time. Going to have a bunch of different guests. All these folks are showing up because you matter, because your loss matters. Because we know in COVID 19 we don't want you to feel like no one cares and you are grieving alone because we do care and we recognize how important you are. And your loved one who's died is still important to us, and we honor them. If you know someone who's alone, please let them know about this. We've had wonderful sessions. All the recordings are here. You can go back and watch any of them. We had Melissa Rivers the other night talking about the death of a parent, Joan Rivers, and her father who died by suicide. Paul Denniston comes on and does grief yoga. So many wonderful people here. We've had lots and lots of recordings. You can go back and see all of them. So it's a rich library for you to really use this time to find your healing. And I don't ever believe that healing means forgetting or moving on. Healing, to me means moving forward with love, with that person and honoring them. So I thank you for being here. If you're new to the group, we use words here. We don't use memes. We don't send out links. We're here to talk to one another because grief is personal, and we want to personally connect with one another.

So I'm so glad you're here, and lots of resources for you, and I will see you tomorrow. Thanks so much.