David Kessler, a former hospice director, discusses deathbed visions where dying patients see deceased loved ones and experience sudden shifts from hopelessness to hope. He describes accounts from doctors and nurses, including his own father's vision, and argues these often happen before medical decline, not because of it.
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What happens when we die?
Yeah, a lot of people would like to know about that. Well, David Kessler is something of an expert on the subject. His new book is Visions Trips in Crowded who and what yout See before youe Die. He's also got a piece on CNN.com which is titled do the Dead Greet the Dying. David is in Los Angeles for us this morning. David, so great to see you. Thanks very much for being with us. We should say that this piece that you did for us on CNN.com is hugely popular. Obviously, this is something that people are very interested in.
I'm quite overwhelmed by the response. It's just the stories are coming out of the woodwork. It really is a statement about how much people want to talk about this and how they each do have a story to tell.
And it's interesting when you say the stories are coming out of the woodwork. The question, which is the title of your piece, do the Dead Greet the Dying? Do they? And how are people describing this as it happens?
Yeah. It's interesting that I interviewed so many physicians, nurses, clergy, social workers for the book and with all due respect, didn't allow any mediums or psychics. It was strictly medical professionals who witnessed patients, one after the other, having visions of the dead coming to greet them as they were dying. They would also talk about going on a trip and they would see these crowds of people that were coming. I don't think it was any accident that the COVID of my book as well as the afterlife and the movie are so similar because that is what people describe to us.
Now, you've got extensive experience with this because you were the director of a hospice. You watched so many people pass on, and you've got personal experience with it as well because of the situation that your father was in. Tell us about that.
I have to admit I was a skeptic early on, and Kubler Ross, my teacher and co author for years, talked to me about this, and I would hear about it from patients. But it wasn't till I saw my father, who was at the end of his life, dying somewhat hopelessly and lonely and missing all those he had loved. And all of a sudden something changed. And I said to him one morning, what happened? And he said, you, mother, who died years ago, came to visit me last night. And she said, we're going to be together again. All of us are going to be together. And I realized he was now not dying into an emptiness, but into a Fullness and his hopelessness went to hopefulness. And it made me realize, what if everything we know about dying isn't true? What if everyone we've ever loved, ever cared for, ever lost, we will see again? That would be a true heaven, you.
Know, and it's true. It's what all of us want to believe. And you also have people who describe their near death experience as saying that it seems so pleasurable and seems so they were really in euphoria because they were, you know, knowing that they were going to pass on to something better. However, scientists of course come in and say, wait a minute. If we stimulate certain parts of the brain, we can recreate this feeling that it may just be, you know, some, some sensory or synapses in your brain, not really this experience. What do you think?
Well, I've certainly heard and read those articles myself. The interesting thing is when you look at deathbed visions and the dying coming to greet the dead coming to greet the dying, people have visions of their mother coming for them one month before they die, before they're ever on any medications, before there's ever any lack of oxygen. And when they don't have a euphoric feeling until they see their mother, there is truth. We can create a euphoric feeling. People have it all the time, maybe even after you've had surgery from the medications. But when you're dying and you look over weeks before and see your mother there to tell you it's going to be all right, when you're in the living room with your family, that's not something that's been recreated by oxygen deprivation.
Interesting. So this gives us a couple of very interesting things. Consider, and that is when someone is dying and they are having these visions, how should we deal with them? And then for somebody who is witnessing someone dying and just can't bear the thought of them passing on, what are they going to do without this person? Does it give them something to hang onto?
Yes, absolutely. I think when we are dealing with the pain of loss and the idea of losing someone so dear to us, what could be greater than to maybe have a glimpse that it's not the end of the relationship? That maybe birth is in the beginning and death is in the ending. And maybe we will be joined again together. And I think that's very, very powerful.
It certainly is. Now, in many religions, you know, there's a belief that if you do right, you go to heaven or you go to someplace good, and if you've done wrong, you go to someplace bad. Does anybody describe perhaps a devil coming for them or seeing themselves going to hell.
Kyra, that was so fascinating. What a great question. One of the things I was curious about was just that, and whether or not there were people who said, my gosh, you know, I had a father who abused me or someone who was not kind to me, will they be greeting me? The fascinating thing that came out of all the interviews, the person who always came for us was a very comforting person. So the good news is, in the afterlife, it doesn't seem like our enemies show up. For us, it's someone we care about who comes, and it's always comforting in a good place.
