Why We Don’t Need More Furniture | Conscious Design & Circular Economy

Our mission is one, is to create an impact in the furniture and interiors industry, a more conscious impact, more sustainable impact, the smartest impact. But at the same time, we have these 3 pillars. So source, repair, verify, and deliver. So that's what we've been doing.

Hello, and welcome to the Conscious Design Podcast. I'm your host, Ian Peterman, and I help turn product ideas to sustainable, 7 Join me for another episode where sustainability meets innovation and business savvy. Today, I'm really excited to have Barbara Netto. She's the founder and CEO of Curious, where she's built a marketplace for curated vintage furniture, making it easier to buy and sell secondhand furniture, promoting a more circular economy. Welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me. Thank you, Ian. It's a pleasure to be here.

Absolutely. Yeah, well, really excited to dive into the company and what you're doing, but let's take a little step back first in time. How did this come about? What— building a platform isn't just a one-day project. So how, how did this come about? You got— you decided, yeah, I want to build, build a platform around this concept.

It started 10 years ago. I started 10 years ago working in the interiors industry and the furniture industry. I worked for 5 years for a luxury furniture brand, a Portuguese one, and basically I was responsible for the UK market. So I did a lot of work in London with opening the showroom, the office for the brand, all the business development for the brand in the UK market. And so I was there for 5 years, almost 5 years. I left the company, I opened an interior design studio. And I've been doing international projects, interior design projects since then for the past 5 years. So it's not that I was bored. I wasn't bored at all. I had a lot of work and things were going well, but I think that it came from a place of frustration. I was seeing loads of issues in interiors and the furniture industry that were overlooked when compared to, for example, the fashion industry. Or in some other industries. And so it was logistics issues, it was sourcing antiques and vintage furniture, unique furniture items. It was also an issue, sustainability, like the sustainability impact, environmental impact my industry produces to the whole planet. It's, it's a massive, massive big issue. So I decided to turn this frustration into a mission. And yeah, after 10 years doing this, working as a furniture supplier and working also on the other side as a buyer, as a trade buyer, and after trying to find a platform that could help me on my daily work to sort of sort out all these issues, and I couldn't find any platform that could help me, well, I decided to create my own. Why not, right?

Awesome.

Yeah, I started to do some research, uh, on the beginning of last year to basically try to understand if it was just me that was excited to, like, you know, like a new idea. Let's see it. Let's do it. I really love vintage. I really love antiques. I really love what I do. So let's just try to make this a business opportunity and just bring it to reality. Or if it is actually a real gap in the market, if it is actually, it will solve a problem basically. So that's what I started to research last year.

Amazing. Amazing. So this is, so really, you've been, you've been in the industry, this, this problem has come up, but then you really started diving into launching it about a year ago.

Yes. So I did this research beginning of last year. Was half a year of research internally, like inside of my own industry, with interior designers, with architects, with some furniture brands, with some new artists, emerging designers, also with some small vintage furniture dealers. So I started to do this research to basically understand how deep the hole was. And, um, summer last year, I brought together my initial team. we managed to develop our first sort of prototype to put it outside in the market and in a certain way, try to test the waters, try to see how people would react to the first product. And this was in November last year. And from November until this year, a lot happened super fast, which proves basically that the market was actually looking for someone like us. So Yeah, it's been a year, roughly a year and a few months since we officially started to take these as something serious. And that's how Curious started, basically was last year, officially last year.

Amazing. Amazing. That's super. That's always good to have the idea and then, and then have it validated and know that, yeah, it's Not just me, there's an actual need. People are responding well. There's, it's solving a problem, the problem that you think it was, but you're, you're actually solving that. So that's really, really great. Okay. So you went through, so you launched November of the prototype, um, and between now and then, of course, a lot has changed. So how, I guess, how do you have an idea of how many users, like how it's grown?

That's the reason why we are so proud, uh, because of this fast So, and initially I always had the idea I didn't want to create just a marketplace, another marketplace of vintage furniture and antiques, or, you know, I, I buy.

Yeah, there's lots of those.

Exactly. And I buy from, I used to buy when I was, uh, doing my interior design projects, I used to specify a lot from our, nowadays our competitors. And I always saw like, okay, they're doing a good job already. Some things could be probably be a little bit better. In terms of service, in terms of actually solving some issues of the industry. But I didn't want to create another marketplace, so I wanted to create a platform, a digital platform that could be the perfect environment for all key players involved in, in the industry. So interior designers, final buyers that actually, uh, make conscious design purchasing and, you know, conscious design and sustainable materials. They, they care about secondhand. They know the importance of vintage. So I wanted to bring these two together, but also the sellers. They are small businesses, medium-sized businesses. Sometimes they don't even have a website. Sometimes they don't even have social media, but they have amazing inventory. They have an amazing inventory, they have an amazing collection of items. So I want to bring together these parts and also what everybody runs away from— logistics. So I wanted to bring all the key players together inside the same platform using technology and artificial intelligence to basically accelerate the whole process of sourcing Authenticate it, so do the verification of the item and selling the item and deliver it. So the whole process with the help of technology and AI. I, I'm not a tech person. I'm a business person and a designer. And so I brought together a team of people that actually know what they are doing tech-wise. And we've been developing that. We've been testing the product. We've been changing a lot, pivoting a lot.

Mm-hmm.

The core, the heart of the whole operation and the heart of the whole platform is still the same since day one. And since our beta version until today, July, what we've been doing, it's having loads of results. Like we have over 552 sellers' applications on our platform, we have over 5,000 products, we launched version for sellers in November and the website in March this year. And from March until today, we have over €100,000 of product sales. We have over almost 20,000 social media followers, um, over 5,000 website visitors every month. So we've been growing super fast and organically. This is also important to mention. We didn't start yet working with Investing a lot in marketing, working with influencers. We didn't start yet. So it's really good to see the organic feedback that we've been receiving so far without pushing, without investing financially in marketing yet. So yeah, that's where we are.

Amazing. Yeah, it's always nice to know. I mean, advertising is good, right? Pushing and growing, but it's always nice to know the organic side because that really gives you that feeling of Am I fitting, you know, you identified the market, it sounds good. Is it really the market? Is it, there's a huge, you can, I think, feel like you can tell how much a demand is better when you have just an organic. And I'm sure you'll get to the point where you're advertising and you're doing all those things.

Definitely. And I think that it's good to see that we are aligned with our audience, you know, like, um, this generation of buyers, so people that now are buying items for their spaces, houses, offices, whatever, they are actually aligned with our values, with our mission, with our branding, with our content. And that's really important. And that's something that was like— I was lacking for years in industry. Every time I, I used to buy from these platforms, but I didn't find like a connection between the way I see Um, vintage nowadays. It's no longer something heavy, snob, uh, you have to book an appointment to be able to go to a gallery, to travel to Milan to see an item. It's no longer like that. It still needs trust. You need to trust the platform where you are buying your items from. You have this trust issue that you do have to sort it. Logistics-wise, it needs to be easy, fast, Um, not too expensive because people nowadays can just search and find the same item for a better price online in 5 seconds. So it needs to be a fair price, but at the same time, it needs the whole brand experience, the whole platform experience. It needs to be truth, you know, like it needs to be truthful. It needs to speak with the audience. And that's what I've been feeling, that our audience understands what we say because we are in the same Uh, you know, in the same line, in the same frequency, we speak the same language. So there's no effort in, in being true, uh, to, to whoever you are talking with. So that's why I think that it's being easy in a certain way.

Right. Well, I like that idea cuz I, I feel like vintage and secondhand, historically it's been kind of 2 categories. It's either like super expensive, like Like you're saying, you're going to show, you have to go to a special place. It's a special auction. You're maybe millionaires, but billionaire, like you're really rich to be in that room, to be buying those things. Or you're at like here in the States, Goodwill or somewhere. It's like the cheapest, just, it's basically people throwing something away and it might still be worth something, but you're like hunting through garbage to find some good things. And there isn't this middle range. I, the clothing world has had that middle range, but for furniture, I'm not aware of too many that sit in that space and go, yeah, it's, it is still good. It's not just throwaway items. It's not somebody else's trash, but it also isn't a million-dollar chair that was, you know, some royalty at some point sat in. Like there's, there's a middle ground there. So I love this idea of like, middle-grounding vintage and, and secondhand and making it, 'cause the other thing, you know, that a lot of people that part of why they buy new is for the experience of going through. They have a good experience. They don't wanna go through digging through bins experience. That's not what they want, but they don't have money for super expensive ones. So that experience is—

It's exactly what you were saying, because in fashion we also have that experience, right? Like I think, I'm not sure, maybe in America it's different, but in Europe I think about like, uh, these, uh, thrift shops of like vintage or secondhand clothes, and they are always like dark, smelly, and, uh, you know, they, they look too cheap and you don't feel comfortable there because you don't want that. But you also don't want to go to an Hermès store and spend thousands that you don't have. So you always tend to be like, like in the middle. And that's where the opportunity for these brands that does like massive produce items like Shein, Inditex, these brands, that's where they find their opportunity. Because there's the offer of this middle ground is now it's getting better, but it's still like very small, you know. So to make sure that In furniture is the same. To be someone in, in between, like someone in the middle that doesn't offer a sofa that has the fabric completely destroyed or the wood scratched.

Right.

In places that it's shown that you won't be proud of have owning that item. It's not something that we want, but we also don't want to do this sort of things that sometimes, like last week I was seeing an auction house selling, like, uh, auctioning an Hermès bag for millions, you know, like we don't want to be that. We want to be middle because economically the world is not in, in the best place ever. Gen Z and millennials, they have amazing style, they have amazing values, but they also have some, a limited budget, but they are conscious. So they know, okay, I prefer to take a little bit longer and shop this sofa that has a story. has an amazing quality, is in a good stage, and it fits my budget, I prefer to wait to be able to afford these than to just buy something from a mass-produced, uh, a mass-produced item from a, uh, a brand or a random brand and then have issues and this item won't last. It won't last. So I feel that it's exactly like you were saying, like— Right. To be this person or this experience, this brand in the middle, it's a tough way of going. But there are so many items, like there are so many items already in the planet. I can definitely guarantee you that we don't need to do more. We don't need more. It's exactly the same speech as we listen in fashion. It's the same in furniture. We don't need more. We— there are many items already out there. We just need to make sure that we give them visibility. They are in good conditions. They are not replicas. That's also important. And they are accessible to anyone without like this thing of being, having to book an appointment and you have to know someone that knows someone. Like there's no point of doing that. Yeah.

Hey, it's your host, Ian. I'm really glad you're enjoying this episode. I absolutely love highlighting amazing brands and founders for the awesome things they are doing. I've helped hundreds of entrepreneurs and businesses like yours turn their boldest ideas into powerful purpose-driven brands. So if you're serious about building a brand people love, like our guests and clients do, and one that you're proud to stand behind, I invite you to dive a bit deeper with our book Conscious Design. Inside, you'll discover the exact framework and steps we use to help entrepreneurs like you turn purpose into a powerful impact-driven brand. A brand that stands out, attracts loyal customers, and drives sustainable growth with social and environmental responsibility woven into its DNA. Grab your copy today. You can find it on our website, consciousdesignhouse.com, or just find the link below in the show notes. Enjoy the rest of the episode and don't forget to like, subscribe, and share. Right. It shouldn't be like buying really expensive art. Like that's— yeah, like you can do that, but you shouldn't have to. And you, you mentioned, you know, like quality and lasting and, and it's funny there, I just had, was talking to someone earlier this year about the furniture industry and they, they were very much like, yeah, there's fast furniture. People don't talk about it, but when you buy furniture that's only gonna last 2 years compared to like But you're talking about good vintage, well-built. These things, they last generations if you take care of them. Right. And that's a big, like, 2 years to 100. Like, that's a long— it's the same as like clothing you wear once versus 100 times. Like, it's the same kind of ratio. But we haven't— I feel like we haven't all kind of had that beaten into us. We haven't had that repeated over and over of— whereas the fashion, we have definitely. been talking about the fashion world for a while about, about it, but not as much in the furniture world.

I feel that it's the same thing as if you know someone that smokes and constantly tell that person like, you, you have to stop smoking, otherwise you'll get cancer. People won't change just because you are talking about the bad things that smoking makes to their bodies. You have to do the other approach, which is like, okay, tell the benefits or the good things that will happen in case they stop doing that. So I think that, yeah, until today, people used to basically— the way of doing marketing and promote sustainability is still, for some of these interiors and furniture brands, is still a little bit old style, which is exactly that heavy way of communicating sustainability and showing how bad this is to the planet. But actually, I feel that Mm-hmm. What we should do is to show how good it is to have a vintage piece, how good it is for your personality, for when you are receiving friends or hosting friends in your place, hosting your family, how good you feel on these items, how comfortable they are. They are also, uh, they, they basically, they position who you are. They express your, your personalities exactly like greenwash the whole thing. I think that we should be honest and real and try to spotlight the benefits, the good things of having vintage items in our places, which are way more than just buying fast furniture. They need to make money because if you sell the item for like a very, uh, small price, it means that you have to sell a lot of items, right?

Correct.

That's the way they make money. So of course people don't think about this. They think like, okay, but I only have this. much of money, I'll buy this sofa and then I see what will happen. Okay, fair enough. But if you have more time, if you can wait, if you can just wait for the best opportunity, source, try to follow the pages you like, follow the pages that have the items you like, ask. I'm sure you will find your item and it'll be worth the wait because in the end you spend much more money than if you just waited for that specific item that you wanted. So, yeah, I think that it's the thing people talk a lot about fashion, but in furniture, fast furniture, in terms of wood consumption, it's insane.

Right.

In terms of waste. Of course, I read a lot about this, but like last year, I thought that it was less than 2023, but it was more. It was 12 million tons of furniture waste only in America. So it's insane. Very big numbers. And yeah, I'm kind of surprised that people don't talk about that, but they talk a lot about fashion, which I understand that it's, uh, more like business to consumer. It's like more B2C, it's more consumers.

I feel like it's, it's more, right? Like you buy a lot more clothes than furniture. So I feel like it's, there's that piece and like that's bigger numbers, which I think goes back to what you were saying. Which I love what you were saying is we've been so kind of the fearmongering side. And I feel like that's part of why fashion is a good point. Like, yes, they're not doing well, they need to do better. But that number is way scarier when they're like, oh, it's like 12 billion pieces of clothes. Or I forget the exact number, but it's like, it's way, it's a really big number. And they're like, this is how many are getting thrown away. It's not quite the same when you're like, oh, well, it's 600,000 or something, something smaller. You're like, oh yeah, well, okay, that's a problem. But then—

Yeah.

To your point, like when you actually think about furniture, it's, well, that's how many trees got cut down to get it the way, like there's so much, you know, we worry about deforestation, but then how could we not talk about furniture waste? 'Cause that's literally wasting it.

Logistics-wise is also an issue because like, for example, people think if you order a t-shirt today, like maximum 2 days, you have this t-shirt in, in your place, in your delivery address. But if you order a sofa or if you order a dining table, it takes ages because it's a bigger item, it's heavier. Usually it's somewhere super far from the delivery address because they don't have warehouses, because warehouses for furniture are way more expensive than warehouses for fashion. And so what happens is that the logistics process, it consumes much more CO2. It consumes a lot of work, a lot of time, a lot of money, a lot of efforts because it's not a smart process. So that's one of the things that we are— for us is one of the top 3 priorities for Curious is literally to create a smart logistics process for furniture. We want to— we are in 2025. There's no point in spending— sometimes I used to pay more for the shipping quote than the actual price of the item. So I had like, for example, a shipping quote costing €3,000 and the item was like €1,000 or €500. So there's no point of doing that. Plus the impact that that has in our planet, it's insane. Like we are talking about sea freights, air freights, land deliveries. It's a headache and it needs a smarter way of doing logistics.

Yeah, that's a good point too. We put a lot of weight on the item itself, right? Of like, oh well, you know, like you're saying waste, there's this much waste, but in order for it to turn into waste, it had to be shipped through some long process that definitely was more impactful than shipping a t-shirt, and then it turned into waste.

And then imagine the returns. If you don't like the item, then you have to return. So the whole way Yeah, with fashion it's easier, it's cheaper, and in terms of impact—

Yeah, this weighs nothing to ship. I can ship this in the mail. I can put it in an envelope, fold it up, put it in an envelope and send it. Cannot do that with my couch.

Yeah, see, it's a big issue. We have to focus one at a time. Um, we had the issue with curating and bringing all these small and medium-sized sellers and dealers on board. Making sure we give visibility to their inventory. So that's number one. Then we go through the verification, double-check if the item is authentic or if it is a replica, verify if the item is in good condition or if it is in bad condition and needs to go back, be restored. And only after that, it goes back to the circular— that's why we call circular economy, right?

Yeah.

Means that we are not getting rid of it. It's repaired and then it goes back to the market. So that's—

Okay. So you're actually taking those items and refurbishing them so that you can, they become sellable then?

Yes, we have, uh, so for vintage and antiques, we are talking about very specific types of restoration process and repair process. So the people that do that job, they need to be specialized. In these type of products. And so, uh, they have to have a certificate and so on. So we have a list of some partners that we are still growing this list in Europe, and we are looking for some partners also in America that we basically, we present them to our sellers to push them and basically motivate them to repair the items before they upload the items into Curious. And with those items, we give them an extra push marketing-wise because we want people to see how the item was, that the item was restored. We want to tell the whole story. So that's what we are doing. And with the verification is through AI. So on the beginning, we were verifying if the item was authentic or not with the original invoice or a certificate of authenticity of the item. But nowadays you can fake pretty much everything. But we started to create, develop, uh, an API that helps us basically verify through AI with photos, videos, angles, label if the item is an original or not. And then the third point that we want to do is sort out logistics. So these 3, I would say that our mission is one, is to create an impact in the furniture and interiors industry, a more conscious impact. more sustainable impact, the smartest impact. But at the same time, we have these 3 pillars. So source, repair, verify, and deliver. So that's what we've been doing. That's our core mission.

I love it. So, and it sounds like you've gotten through your first 2 pillars, or you're getting there. How tackling logistics, and you know this, and probably everyone, logistics is a pain. Even well-designed logistics is not easy. Can you share anything about what you're doing on the logistics side and trying to handle, 'cause you're dealing with stuff coming from all over to anywhere. Like you're already a very, like people run away from regular logistics. You are doing reverse logistics plus like this is the combination of all the logistics nightmares people would usually run from, which is great you're tackling 'cause it needs, it gets ignored. So I'm curious, how are you going about tackling that?

So we, as I told you, I believe that technology is here not to replace us, but to help us improve some things and some gaps that we are not seeing because we are focused on our daily work. And then we don't have mental space to think about new stuff, new solutions. Um, so we are launching by the end of this year, again, platform Inside Curious that is also basically enabled by artificial intelligence, enhanced by artificial intelligence. So we are about to launch that end of this year. But in the meantime, we are working with technology with a more simplified plugin that we feed with contacts from smart and medium-sized logistics companies that are based in Europe, UK, and America. So we don't work with the big names like UPS, DHL, And the main reason why we don't do that is because first of all, their quotations, their prices for furniture are insanely high. They're not used to do that. They are used to shipping everything fast, the small items.

They do boxes. You can carry, one person can carry. Yeah.

So we don't work with them. And number 2, the reason also is because they actually don't care about the environmental impact that much. And the third reason, is because they don't know how to handle furniture. So we had loads of issues while I was working for all this time, this decade in interiors. I saw sometimes they just dropped the item in the middle of the street. They didn't care that much when they were lifting the items, putting them on the floor. So sometimes an item could go like from Paris to New York, arrive there, and surprise, it's damaged. Now we have to return it and say, or send a new item. So they don't know how to handle it. And so we partner with small and medium-sized transport companies that are specialized only in handling furniture. So, so, furniture delivery across countries and inside a specific area or a specific country or in Europe or only in the UK, only in specific states of America. So that's what we've been doing. And I believe that even when we launched AI-enabled system, we will still have one very specific factor, which is the human side. We cannot forget that because things happen even with technology, even with the perfect system, things will happen. And what I feel is that my team, our competitors miss a lot. They have big teams, they have loads of clients, which makes sense, but at the same time, people need feedback. People need to know where the item is. And I feel that that's what makes us different from, and will keep making us different from, loads of other platforms is the feedback, the human side, technology together with the human side.

Right. Yeah. I love that. That's, I feel like technology is good and there's a lot of stuff you can do with it. There's a lot of automation that you should do. And if I'm going to spend money on something, I should be able to, if it's $20, no. Okay. That's fine. Like I don't need concierge service for that, but if I'm buying something bigger, I expect to have the, I should be able to get to a human and be able to talk to, talk to someone, especially like you said, shipping, because we all know how shipping goes normally. There's a big risk there. So being able to talk to someone and know, yes, there's somebody watching it. There's someone. checking on it, this is all being guided, is a nice reassurance for your buyers, which I'm sure is a huge benefit that they, they recognize.

I agree with you. Well, that's the feedback we've been having. We, we are starting. I can't guarantee that once we scale, we will only have good reviews and good things. I think that's, uh, that's not possible. We will fail sometimes, but One thing that I can promise and guarantee, first of all, to myself is that we'll always, always keep our core. And the core, the 3 pillars are the ones I told you before, and they include the human side. Like we, my team, we want that. We want to be close to the sellers. We travel, we go to the trade shows, we are with them, we do videos, we interview them, we share their stories. We are with buyers, we share with buyers. interior designers' projects when they specify vintage items, even if they didn't buy from us. So we, our mission is way bigger than what we do. So that's why we will keep pushing.

Love that. Now I wanted to ask briefly, so you said that, right, there's interior designers that are ordering. Is this a platform then that like I could use, but then also you're making sure that design professionals and You're a hotel and you need some vintage pieces put in, right? You can use this business case, but also this trick. Is that correct? You're really encompassing everyone with that?

Yeah, we are more focused, especially in this first year, we are more focused on B2B. So interior designers and architects. And the reason is because these people are the number one responsible to make sure that vintage and antiques and This sustainable approach in interiors industry is not seen as something cheap. It's seen as something stylish and that has personality. So they are our like biggest advocates. They are the ones that we want to have close to us to basically spread our mission and show how cool an interior can be with a vintage piece, with an antique piece. So that's why we are focusing and targeting and working a lot with interior designers and architects. But we also have many final buyers purchasing items through our platform. So it's really easy to use. What we are about to launch after summer, so in September, is an app for interior designers and architects to communicate. It's a community app for design professionals. So I'm just telling you this firsthand.

Yeah.

But that's one of the reasons why we are doing that is Our main focus for this year are the professionals because they are our— basically they are the messengers for what— for our mission, for what we've been doing. Yeah.

I love that. It's good to resource. I feel like, I don't know, my theory is that designers can make sustainability happen if we resource them. That's the— if there's nothing for them, like as a designer, you're usually pretty good at convincing people to follow a design. Like that's literally your job is to help guide the design of everything. So if you give people the resources and go, yeah, here's an option. Here's something that you can pick. They can advocate. Like you said, they can do all that advocating and go, yeah, look, it's available. I'm not inventing it. You don't have to spend extra. It's right here. It's a select.

Yeah. You have that also with vintage. It's like, it's ready to ship. It's ready. You don't have to wait 14 weeks to manufacture the whole thing.

Yeah.

You don't have to spend a lot of— yeah, it's there. It's ready. If the fabric is not the fabric you want, you have probably like 100,000 other items that will probably fit. Same with finishes, same with dimensions. It's there. And I know as a designer, I know that sometimes we have this thing about the budget. So the client has a budget and vintage, um, it'll take a portion of my budget? How will I do this? But it's exactly what you were saying. It's about storytelling and real storytelling. Like, it's literally an investment. The client, in 10, 5 years, the client can sell that item and that item will cost 2 times more, 3 times more. So it's an investment. It's like an art piece, literally like an art piece. And basically that's the way I feel that. Us interior designers, we should be able to sort of educate our clients and show them how interesting it is from also a financial perspective to invest in vintage and antiques.

Right. I hadn't even thought about the value side of it. But yeah, if you can do that and you can, I don't know, maybe you can find some tax professionals that are like, here, this is, here, Your CPA says you should do this too. Like, yes, do it. It's good for the planet and your taxes and your portfolio will be better. So.

Yeah, it's again, it's the same thing about, uh, if you smoke, look, this will happen. Or if you smoke, look how good you'll look. Look how things will change. So it's the same thing, showing the bad things or showing the good things about doing something like buying vintage.

I love it. I love it. Well, this is amazing. I love what you are doing. Before we wrap up, kind of last thing, anything, just wanted to give you some space if you wanted to add anything that maybe we hadn't covered. They're like, ah, I wanted her to say this. And then also, where can people find you that are wanting to get vintage and not have to go to a really expensive auction to get it?

Yeah, no, I think we've said a lot and we said everything. I feel that there's still a lot to do, but the good thing is that we are young. So I still have time to do it. My team still have time to do it. And we are super passionate about vintage and about interiors and about planet and about what we do. So the future is bright for us. And people can find us at Curioz.com. They can also follow us on our Instagram, Curioz Official, our social media channel where we share literally every single day something interesting for curious people.

Awesome.

So yeah, I'll say those 2.

Amazing. And for everyone listening, watching, links will be in the description, so please check those out. And Barbara, I really appreciate your time. Great for having you on the show. Appreciate it.

Thank you so much for your time. Same here. Thank you so much.

And that wraps up another episode of the Conscious Design Podcast. If today's episode inspired you to bring your product idea to life and turn it into a sustainable 7-figure business, Visit petermanfirm.com or click the link below. Your ideas have the power to change the world, and we're here to help make that happen. Thank you for joining us, and I'll see you on the next episode.