41 | Celebrity Chef James Barry & Founder of PLUCK Superfood Seasoning

Hi, everyone. Welcome to your age is not your cage with Carla Allen. Okay. Today I have a very special guest, and if you are watching on YouTube, you're going, what is up? Because Carla has a guy, a male, My first solo male on my podcast. So I'm super excited. And I. I don't just have anyone on. So, you know, he's going to be.

He.

He's really going to speak to you listeners. So I want to introduce Chef James Berry. And he has spent 20 years in the culinary business. He's been a celebrity chef chef. I'll have him talk about that a little bit more. But the main reasons that I wanted to have James on was because he has a product that he created that I absolutely love and I've been sharing with everybody and it's called Pluck Seasoning. And he is an expert in so many areas from. I have listened to him on different podcasts and just a wealth of information of things in the kitchen, things to do, how you can be a master chef in your own kitchen. Just different ideas and things that I know as my listeners, he is going to just give you so much information that is usable and tangible for you. So without going on and on, I would love for you to welcome Chef James to my podcast. Welcome.

Thank you for having me, Carla. I am so honored to be the first solo male.

I feel like there should be confetti going off or there's. There should be something going on for that, but I am very excited about it and especially just because I know what you can bring to the listeners and how you can help them in so many ways.

Thank you. And it. And it means so much because I think that women don't get their. Their due for being the movers of health. And in my 20 years experience, it has primarily been women who are the ones that are reaching out for support around health for their families or themselves, who are the ones that, when their family has something going on, are the ones that are reaching out and getting support for the family. And sadly, it's typically the male the in. In that if it is a, you know, a husband and wife situation, it's typically the male that thwarts it. So any women out there who are listening this, who feel very frustrated with that, I get it. And, and I have some tips for it, so.

Absolutely. Okay, so first I want to start off, just give some background on yourself and, and you can. You can share just anything about yourself right now that will help everyone to get, you know, a little. Get to know you a little Better as we get started.

Yeah, sure. Picky eater from. From birth on, basically didn't have my first taco till I was in high school or, sorry, college. Not high school, college. It was even later. And I just, you know, I think, I think food for me was I controlled food because I had other things in my life going on that were chaos and emotional chaos. And so that this was where I could control things and did that by being a picky eater. But I was always fascinated with cooking as a young child. And so I became a chef. And it wasn't until my 30s that I became a chef because I didn't really see it as a career because, you know, many of you, if you're older, will know that back in the day there were, there were no celebrity chefs. It was like Julia Child and the Frugal Gourmet. I mean, it was like. And they were both on pbs, you know, so it was like, it was, it was like if you wanted to be a chef, you were either the two of them or you were like, owned a restaurant. Like there were, there were really no career paths beyond that. That, that was out in the public eye. And I though I dialed in. I wanted to be a private chef because I wanted to help people on a one, on one basis. I went to culinary school. I got out, I got the good fortune of cooking for people like Tom Cruise, George Clooney, Gerard Butler, Mariska Hargitay from I think It's Not LA Law, but that one show that's been on forever. Do you know which one I'm talking about?

I know what you're talking about and I can't think of it either.

Yeah, it's. It's literally been on forever. Like over 24 seasons. She's on that show and she was one of my first clients. Lovely, lovely woman. And just in general, I've cooked for a lot of celebrities and, and, and I've also cooked for non celebrities and just people that needed support. I started a meal delivery service. I left Tom Cruise, of all people. I worked for him for two years and I left him to start a meal delivery service because I just felt I, I mean, I really enjoyed working for him. The ego, you know, fills your ego to cook for such an a list star that everyone knows who he is. Because the minute you say, oh, I'm, I'm Tom Cruise's chef, immediately everyone thinks you're the most amazing chef in the world. Right?

Yeah. Yeah.

So my ego loved it. Like, I loved working from. It was definitely hard work. But I just felt so strongly like that I'm not here on this planet to just help one person, that 1%. Like, I really believed that what I brought to the culinary world was needed by everyone. And so I was really trying to conceive of how can I affordably, you know, serve everyone. And so that's why I started a meal delivery service. I ran that for eight years in Los Angeles. That killed me because it's because if there's any entrepreneurs listening to this, you'll know that you can be proficient at making pies, but you may not know how to run a pie business. So that was my thing is like, I, yes, I knew how to cook and I knew how to help people, but running a business is a whole other skill. And so I learned that in those eight years. But it, gosh, it took all my time, my health, just everything. I feel like I lost five years of my life. So. So when I sold that, it was all about, you know, regaining my health. We had our second child, we moved from la, and it was actually during my time being a father that I really kind of dug back into what are the most nutritious foods. You know, it's something. When I was in culinary school, we learned that, you know, we learned about organ meats, we learned about Weston A. Price, we learned about these different paradigms that serve people and help people be healthier. And I was definitely putting cert certain ones into practice, but I was not eating organ meats, for example. And they are the most nutrient dense food on the planet, hands down. Anyone could do any research. And that will pop up as, you know, beef liver will pop up as the most nutrient dense food on the planet. So I knew it, but I wasn't practicing it. And when I had kids, I really started to dig deep and be like, okay, a, I want to be around as long as I can for them, and then B, I want them just like any parent. I want my kids to be healthy and happy. That's ultimately what all I want for them. Right?

Yeah.

So it was about like, how do I help them do that? With the acknowledgment of like, our humanity of like, okay, as humans, we're very inconsistent. We, we're faced with this behemoth of a marketing know, a marketing behemoth around these ultra processed foods that are constantly challenging us, confusing us. How, how do I get these foods, particularly like organ meats that are so nutrient dense, when people think they're icky, when they don't know how to cook them, they don't know. Like how do I get that into not only my kids diets, my own diet and ever and support everyone else with it. And that's where, that's when I came up with pluck. And I, I can't even tell you like well so for those that don't know pluck is it's. We basically take freeze dried powdered organs. So it's liver, heart, kidney, spleen and pancreas from 100 grass fed cows. And I combine them with organic spices and herbs. So basically I took something that's challenging for most people, they cook any to source. I took something that most people are getting from a capsule which I would love to talk about why I don't advocate taking it from a capsule. But I took that product and I made it so that anyone could get it into their diet at any time. You could sprinkle it on to go food, you could sprinkle it on your own food, you could sprinkle on your kids. But like it's so now easy and effortless. It doesn't require a new habit because we already sprinkle food on. So it just embodied all these amazing traits that you look like I look for in health food. Like when I think of health food, I want things that are easy and delicious and it needs to hit both of those because if it doesn't hit both, I don't do it forever. You know, I mean I'm, and I'm looking as a chef in the field, I'm always looking for what actually works. I don't want the new fad, I don't want the trend. I don't want that thing that, oh, you're going to do it for a month, you're going to pay all that money and then you're just going to fall off. Like I want the thing that becomes lifestyle that is effortless. Like Netflix. Right. The Netflix of food basically. Right. And, and so I just, I, I'm just so blown away and in awe that I came up with it. So in no way do I take it for granted because in today's day and age it's pretty rare to come up with a real food that is not laboratory made like that someone else hasn't done.

Yeah.

You know, and so I'm constantly in awe. And then I'm also constantly in awe of the response. I'm in awe of how much, you know, the feedback we get of like oh, father reached out to me and he said, you know, my daughter was born with skin issues and, and then Nothing we were doing with western medicine was working. And then I heard organ meats could help and. But she's so young, I couldn't get capsules into her. So we heard about pluck. We started using pluck and it went away. I mean, just amazing things.

Yeah, yeah. And aren't those the kind of things that, with what you're doing, makes it worthwhile? It's like, you know, when, when you get things like that, it's just like in anything and anything I'm doing in my business. And sometimes when maybe you're frustrated or it's not a great day or there's stuff going on, you're like, does anyone care? Is anyone listening? And then bam, you know, something like that happens and you're like, that's why I went over to doing this. That's why I'm doing this, you know?

Absolutely. And it's so on mission. Right. Because that's my. I've gotten very clear over the years that I am here to help people get healthy. Like I'm. But I'm here specifically, I'm not a doctor, I'm not a nutritionist. Like, I'm here to help them with their food, help them get their food, make their food healthier. And I really look at it like I'm the how guy. So historically I would work with a doctor or a nutritionist or dietitian or even a trainer. Right. And they would see their clients or their. Or their patients, depending on what they are. Right. And they would tell that person, this is why. You know, they would assess it. This is why this is going on and this is what you need to do. And then inevitably the person would look at them and go, but like, you're telling me that I can't eat all the things I eat. I like, I don't know what to eat now. Like, what do I do? And they'd be like, okay, let's. And they wouldn't have the how. They don't necessarily know the how either. So then they would call me and I was always the guy that, okay, I'm going to now take what they told you and I'm going to show you practically how to use it in your day to day.

Yeah. And I don't want to miss that point too practically. I mean, that is what people need. They need practically what. Especially in today's busy, busy world and movement, we have to have practical things, you know, that move, move us forward toward that healthier lifestyle.

Absolutely. I mean, you know, I can talk until I'm blue In the face about the quality of food. I could talk to, I'm blue in the face about how important these foods are for you, right? But the reality is, is, is if your body is not working well, like if you're not digesting food properly, if you don't, if you're not eliminating your toxins properly, meaning like pooping daily, peeing regularly, sweating, things like that, you, it won't matter. Like you're, you're not going to process that food the way I'm intending you to get it. So it's really important that we look towards the one soothsayer, the one truth sayer in our lives. That's always with us, that's never not there. It's your body. Your body will not lie to you. You could do everything you can to try to get to lie, but it won't. If you eat the wrong foods, your stomach gets upset. If you eat the wrong foods, your skin, you know, gets all fat. You know, you have some kind of skin. Something, you know, like something happens, you have bad sleep, you have these kind of ailments that just keep popping up daily that kind of keep us from thriving, you know. And they're the little things that we don't always think that are connected to our food, but they typically are. They're usually connected to a nutritional imbalance. And that's the body telling you, hey, what, whatever you're doing is not working. And then it's really the job, you know, then it's about, okay, getting support, you know, looking into someone who might be doing testing of blood and stool or whatever it is, or hair analysis, all these different modalities, but getting that support so you can figure out, well, what is going on. And too many people are disregarding their, their bodies like a converse. The basically the way the body is conversing to us, the way the body is kind of telling us what's going on. Too many people are just like not even looking at their body for, for support or for, you know, education. A lot of people are self diagnosing and then they're just, they're making choices that may not even be accurate. They might like, I have a cousin who stopped eating eggs at 16 or 17 and she noticed that the, the issue that she was having went away when she did, but she's now for 40 years or 50 years not eating eggs. And I'm like, well, but did you actually heal the issue that was going on? And if you didn't heal it, we don't just by removing the Food that doesn't necessarily heal it. We don't know. You could be eating eggs now, but you don't know. Yeah. You know, so a lot of people are living in that kind of confusion. And I get it. I mean, it's, it's so confusing. But, but I do believe it starts with our body, that, that we keep looking elsewhere, but it's got to start with your body. Just what is your body telling you?

Yeah, and, and being aware of that and listening, because that's what I tell, you know, my clients too. It's, it's not normal to burp and, and have all these digestive issues after you eat. And so many people just think that's normal when it's your body trying to tell you, hey, this doesn't, this isn't working for me.

I, I was totally like that growing up. Lots of flatulence. Like, yeah, like, I thought it was totally normal. I mean, my dad did it, my brother did it, I did it, my mom. Like, I thought this is how, you know, you undo your belt after, you know, a big meal. Like, I thought it was all normal.

Yeah. Yeah. And so I think that's such a good point because it is, It's. It's not normal. And it's listening to our body and being aware of that. Okay, so before we get too far ahead, because I want to go back to your. To pluck. And one of the things I don't think I have learned in the process of learning about pluck is how exactly I know listeners are going to want to know, how do you do that? How do you. Are you. Because you say you mentioned about so many things are chemically processed and whatever. What is the process for making your seasonings?

Yeah, it's a great question because you really cannot take seasonings for granted. A lot of people don't realize, first of all, that even with seasonings, you need to read the ingredients. And if you read, for example, the ingredients of, let's just say Lowry's All Purpose seasoning, you'll see that it has sugar in it, it has like some caking agents. Like, it has actually like vegetable oil in it. It's like it has things that you're like, what? Like, why does it have this? And in more cases than not, the reason why these ultra processed foods or seasonings have what they have is because they're creating shelf life. And I think we can never get confused by the fact that these businesses or these companies that are putting out food and it doesn't matter what grocery store Is, you know, carrying them. True. Some grocery stores have very strict guidelines of what they'll carry. So that, like, I think mothers and. And on the east coast is like, that there's a few out there that really, they. They literally won't let in all foods. They. They have to have meet a certain criteria. So that's always good. But of course you're going to pay a premium for that. But the reality is, is these businesses, they're just trying to make money. So everything's all about shelf life. It's all about how long can I get it to be on that shelf and not expire and not cake and not like clump and. Or whatever, not discolor, whatever it is. That's really all that. That's what trying to do. But to do that, they got to put in all these, like, this junk. So right then and there, that's where I wanted to be different right away. So most spices, the first ingredient is salt. And that's basically because salt is cheap. So once again, their business is trying to make money. So by pumping lots of salt into their product, it's now cheaper for them to create. That's why you see seasonings that are 295 or 299 or 399. You know, I mean, that's why you see that is because it's mostly flavored salt. That's really what it is. So right away, people need to know that. So I built pluck around the flavor and then the nutrition. So for me, because flavor is important, I can. I didn't put nutrition before flavor because if it's like I said earlier, if it's healthy but doesn't taste good, you're not going to do it very long. Right? So flavor was first, nutrition was second. So if people look at the back and what's in it, the first ingredient is onion. It's granulated onion. So a lot of powdered onion, for example, has. It has sometimes flow agents in it to keep it. So it. Because it's powdered so fine that it needs something to kind of keep it granular or from not caking. Granulated onion does not typically have that. So we're using an organic granulated onion. And that's. That's basically because that's going to help offset the taste of the organ meats. And also, a little tip. If you ever having, like a dinner party and you want everyone walking through that door to think you're the most amazing chef in the world, all you have to do is this. You just have to Saute onions on the stovetop and let the aromatics of those, those onions fill your house. And then everyone will walk in going.

What did you make?

It smells so good.

I love that you brought that up because anytime I cook onions and it is, it's like you're going, what? Wow, that smells good. So what?

Every time, that's every time, yeah, it really does work. Everyone, I, I mean it, it doesn't matter what, how good of a chef you are, but everyone will think you're amazing. So, so onion, you know, first ingredient, then it's the organ meats. And we, as I mentioned earlier, it's, it's so they're freeze dried, powdered. And why we're getting freeze dried and how that's processed is. So we're sourcing from New Zealand now. Why New Zealand? I would love to source from the US I've tried to source from the US from small farms, but the reality is our supply chain is not set up well for it. So when I did the research I could not, first of all I couldn't find all the organs. We have five organs in pluck, liver, heart, kidney, spleen, pancreas. I could only find three of them. And then I found a fourth one, the spleen. I could not find pancreas. And then the issue was we could get it from the ranch that was meeting our criteria in terms of 100 grass fed. But then they have to transport it to a processor to process the organs. So they're all uniform size because you can't freeze dry a whole heart for example, or liver because they'll freeze dry differently and it's harder to do, it takes longer and all that. So they would have to process everything. So they're basically taking product that's frozen. So that's pulled from the animal, it's frozen. And usually the freezing out for a certain amount of days, just like sushi grade will kill off any parasites and whatnot, if there are any. But we're getting it from very healthy cows. So typically it doesn't so then frozen, then sent to a processing plant where then it's cut up into uniform size, then it's refrozen, then it's sent to a freeze dryer. And that's now another transportation point. The freeze dryer freeze dries it. But most of the freeze dryers who I found didn't powder them. So now there's another transportation point to the powder place. And now what happens is they powder the freeze dried product and then from there there's another transportation point back, you know, to us. So there was something like four or five transportation points. And so what happened was with best intentions of trying to source in US it actually was more expensive than sourcing it in New Zealand because New Zealand's got the whole animal available. They have 100 grass fed animals. They're an island, they control their environment. So it's truly grass fed. It's like green grass year round. Whereas in the US you do not get green grass year round. So that means they're grass fed for a certain part of the year and then the rest of the year it's hay or it's subsidized. So it's really fascinating that I have to go all the way to New Zealand to get this product. And, and honestly all supplement companies that are, that are providing, organize, we're all, we're, we're either getting it from New Zealand or we're getting it from Argentina. And in the industry, New Zealand is just kind of seen as a higher grade product. So that's why I go there. But the Argentina product is also good. That's pretty much why we're doing what we're doing then basically. So we get those powdered product mixed to our specifications and then we're just combining it with the spices and herbs. And we have four SKUs. So three of them we call superfood seasonings. So they're really designed for you to get micro dosing of those organ meats frequently. So every time you use it, you're getting a little bit of organs and there's power in getting microdosing. This is something that's really important for people to understand because in America we're kind of this all or nothing kind of mentality how we're raised, right? It's like work, I work hard, I play hard, or it's, it's all or nothing. And it's like, well, that's not how the body best receives things. The body actually receives things better when they're in small amounts. So if, if you think about it like there are people out there that are taking the amount of organ meats that the bottle tells them to in the supplement form. And the bottle will say like six to eight, you know, capsules. And I've talked to tons of people that have been in this situation where they say they take them and then they feel nauseous. So it's, it's like your body, it's almost like you're getting too much too quickly. So I like a controlling how much I'm able to put on. I also like getting it with my food because that's also going to help you not get nauseous. And then the third thing is I just. I like knowing that it's like, it's less about how much I'm getting. It's more about that I am getting something, and I'm getting it every time I eat.

Yeah. Yeah. And I love that, too. And that's what I found so fascinating with it, because I. I take mine and just everything I'm eating, it goes in it. I put it in my eggs, I put it on. I make bowls a lot with different meats, and it's just. It's an automatic now to just sprinkle it on. And I mean, I absolutely love that. And so you have a few different flavors, too. And I'll. I'll tell you, so far, I haven't tried all of them yet, but so far, my favorite is what you call the spice Spicy mild. Right?

Oh, that's. I love that one, too. Yep.

Yeah. And I love, like, that flavor, to me, can go in almost anything, at least for me. I like the flavor of it. And every time I take it out, you know, I have to get my finger in it soon. Have some. So I like that. I mean, if people are worried about. Oh, but how. How do these taste, you know, being organ meat? Absolutely love the flavor.

Thank you. I mean, I made it for that reason. Like, I don't eat organ meats usually. Like, I'm not. Sometimes I do, but I'm not. And so I'm in it for the flavor as well. But I also want the nutrition. I think we know we have to come to. We have to come to be honest with ourselves, that we have an epidemic going on and that basically that 94% of Americans are nutrient deficient, but we're not calorie deficient. And that's so important to recognize. It's like, this isn't about, like, not getting enough food. You know, like those Sally Struthers commercials from back in the 80s. It's not like that. It's like, no, we're getting tons of food, but we're still nutrient deficient. We're not getting the right food. Yeah. So that's. That's why I'm all about, like, if I can. If I can make it effortless for you, then now, what's the excuse? Like, when are we going to start to take our own health, you know, control of our own health? Because the reality is, if you're. If you're waiting for the government to, you know, to regulate things or to, to create label transparency or to do anything that's going to support our health. We're. We're in the wrong country. We got to move to like, Switzerland or someone else because our country is in it for the profit. Let's. We got to be honest. They're. They're in it for the money. They're in bed with these companies. These companies subsidize them. They subsidize the companies. It's like this mutual relationship. And if it was for our health, we wouldn't have so many sick people.

Yes, Amen. All of that. I'm just in such agreement on all of that. And I would love for you to share a little more because we only briefly touched on the organ meets as far as what, what are the, the benefits. What are the, the health benefits to people? Why should they be adding that into their lifestyle?

Yeah. So there's. I'm going to actually kind of almost answer even, even more than just that in this, in this answer. So, so I just want to make sure everyone understands, like, for. So organ meats. What is organ meats? Because a lot of times we just think it's liver or heart, kidney, you know, I mean, like, we kind of stop there. But organ meats and another name for them is awful. So I know that's a perfect name. People might be even laughing right now because they're like, well, they taste awful.

So that's not spelled the same though, right?

No, it's O, F, F A L. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's. And, and they think that that name came from when you slaughter the animal. Those, these are the parts that fall off when you slaughter. So they think that's where it came, but it's been around forever. Many food archaeologists will say that we, you know, you and I are able to have this discussion right now because ancestrally, we ate three things. We ate blood, organ meats, and a fat. So. So be if, like many people believe that that's what helped make our brains bigger, things like that. So. Because even when we were scavengers and we got some muscle, we still didn't change much. But it was when we started eating organs, fat and blood that we got this nutrient abundance and to change us, that's at least what they would say. So clearly these, these have been around a long time. It's something that's historically a very prized part of the animal. I mean, even in the animal kingdom, when you see an animal take down another Animal, they eat the organs first. You know, a lot of times they leave the muscle meat behind for, you know, for the hyenas and all the scavengers. Because they don't, they're like, that's not because, because you got to remember, it's like, like that's what's kind of so amazing is when we talk about awful, right? Well, what is awful? So as I mentioned, it's more than just liver, kidney, heart. It's technically everything that's part of the animal except the bone and the muscle and the muscle meat. And when you break it down, the percentage of that, it's almost like, it's like almost 49, 51. It's like a significant part of the animal. So we're technically only using like 50% of the animal when we slaughter it. So, you know, there's lots of talk of green, you know, being green, planet focused, you know, and all the, all that stuff. Right. Well, what I have to say to anyone that's saying that is there is nothing more planet focused than actually eating the whole animal because we're already slaughtering these animals. So we want to honor the animal, then we want to use all of the animals. So that's one of one thing is, that's the most humane thing to do because no matter what, when we go to eat, something's going to die. Whether you're plowing a corn field and it's all the dough and the rabbits and the insects and whatever else that die from the plowing of the field, or it's a cow or whatever or a lamb or whatever we're eating, right? So something's got to die for us to eat. Isn't it far better to, isn't it more of you're honoring that animal if you eat the whole, all of it versus like you eat 50% of it, which is what we're doing right now. And then we're nutrient deficient and then we turn around and we pay money towards the supplement industry to, to give us the nutrients that we're not getting from, from eating the whole animal. So we're literally, I mean, to me that's like the definition of insanity. We're, we're slaughtering an animal, we're paying high dollar for that meat and then we're still not nutrient sufficient. So then we turn around and we pay a supplement industry, a trillion dollar supplement industry, more money when all we had to do was just eat more parts of that animal. The organ meats have basically anything that you can think of like is in a prenatal, for example, so it has, you know, has vitamins, like pretty much all the vitamins, has all B vitamins, has tons of vitamin A. You have nutrients like iron, magnesium, folate, which you find in, in prenatals. I mean, basically everything that science is telling you this is what we need to create life. It's in organ meats. And what's beautiful about it is that it's in organ meats in a complementary way in basically like Mother Nature's designed way. So if anyone kind of knows much about nutrition is that you can, for example. And I, and I hope I don't mess this up because I'm not a nutritionist, but I've been in the around long enough where I, I've picked up some stuff, so hopefully I don't mess this up. But you can eat as much iron as you want, but if you don't complement it with, I think it's magnesium, then it won't actually absorb into you. That's what they found. Right. And I could be wrong that it's magnesium, but it's something else. Like, so it needs a complementary mineral to help absorption. And that goes for sometimes vitamin A and vitamin D as well. So vitamin A is better absorbed when you have vitamin D with it. So like for example, if you're making a pate which is going to have high vitamin A from the liver, then you want to cook it in lard because lard is high in vitamin D. So there's, there's these complimentary relationships that are constantly happening in our ecosystem and with minerals and vitamins. And so what's beautiful is that with organ meat, it's all there. Like, you don't have to eat necessarily organ meat. Like you, you don't have to subsidize it necessarily. Like it's like it's, it's there, it's going to be in the most absorbable form and if your body needs it, it will get it. And it's also a real food. So it's not synthetic, it's not confusing to your body usually. A lot of times when we get fortified nutrients and foods, we're getting sometimes too much of it and then your body just pees it out. So it's just becomes very, you know, expensive pee. Yeah, but I don't find that with orgamines. And one of the reasons is because as I mentioned earlier, when you take a supplement, you sometimes can get too much. Right? It's guesswork. You don't know. You might take the six, eight Capsules, but you don't actually know what your body needs when you, when you swallow a pill. But when you eat liver or any if, when you eat your food in general and it's real food, not ultra processed, your body will tell you when to stop. And we know this because, for example, let's just say we're craving oranges. Try to eat six oranges, try to eat eight oranges. Like your body will stop you. Try to put salt on your tongue, try to put a teaspoon. Your body won't let you, Your body will literally freak out. It'll be like, this is disgusting, stop. However, you just dip your finger in it, it might let you do two dips maybe, right? But our body has this mechanism in it. It's, it's, it's, it's the lingual response. It's a beautiful thing. And it's, it's, it starts like, if you think about ancestry, it starts with our senses, right? So maybe in the past we would see something from afar. So it starts with the scene. Maybe you hear it, you hear something drop from a tree. And so you're, you be, you start to be curious. Then you get closer. Now your smell might start to come into place because you smell it as you get closer. Now your, your touch comes to place because now you're picking up, you're grabbing it and then you stick in your mouth. Now you're, you're tasting, the juices are flowing down your, your, your, your, your mouth, they're going inside you and, and all this communication starts to happen. It's happened from the minute you saw it to now tasting it. And your taste buds are firing. There's all these mechanism, biological mechanisms that are happening. And your body now responds with this is good. Give me more or less. This doesn't taste right. Stop. Right. It's like we have this ancestral knowledge in our body, but we have to use the mechanism and it has to be real food if it's ultra processed food. See historically, ancestrally, flavor represent nutrition. So when you, we found something in nature, if it had like a sweetness or a flavor to it, that meant, oh, this is, this is something that's okay to eat. Typically, if it was bitter or didn't have a lot of flavor, that typically could, could mean that it was poison or not good for you, right? So our body is hardwired for flavor equals nutrition. Well, as you can understand, like all ultra processed food has artificial flavors, natural flavors. It's like, it's just the flavor. Now something can have extreme Flavor, but have like, it might have strawberry flavor but have no strawberries, like, and no nutrition. Like, it's just. It's crazy. Yeah, but we, our taste buds and our. In our natural biological, innate knowledge of what our body is is completely being manipulated because these things don't have the nutrition that our body thinks they do. So that's why we then keep eating the chips, we keep eating the cookies. We can't stop because the nutrition that our body thinks is going to be there isn't. And it's the nutrition that tells our body to stop, not our head.

That is such a good point. You know, and it is when you're eating all the fake and the artificial flavors and too, it's going in your body. Your body is going, I don't know what to do with this. I don't know how to digest this or where to put this or it's just such a. To get those natural flavors and natural nutrients, and it's just such a different process. And what you brought up about the capsules, I mean, they have to go through a whole digestion. Digestion process before you're even getting any of the nutrients through. So I love that you. You brought all that up. And I have to share with you that we. So my husband does raise cattle, and we're in Texas. And so we actually are. Are picking up our steer on Saturday and getting all the organ meat and all the organ meat is, is. I mean, we're doing nose to tell. We're getting everything. And I, I want to learn how to make tallow and all the things with it. But it's, It's a process in learning about everything nose to tail. And my. And my husband's a hunter, so we've always had venison. I mean, same type thing. And how you brought up honoring the animal I think is such a beautiful thing because if, if we are anything we're doing honoring that animal. And we're honoring it too by, you know, nose to tail eating and, and getting everything. And so I will tell you, I've never had beef liver and so that. And we'll be getting the heart in the tongue and I can't remember, but.

Oh, well, well, let's talk. I can share with you right now what you can do with some of them and then. Yeah, yeah. So. So here's kind of. Kind of the easing into organ meat recommendation practical tips I have. So as we've already mentioned, you know, pluck is definitely like an easy entry point, I always say, like, if organ meats are the gateway to nutritional abundance, as we've been discussing, then pluck is the gateway to organs. It's just, it just makes it so easy, Right?

Yeah.

But in no way should you stop there because I, I, I absolutely believe, yeah, get whole animal, try to incorporate these things. And so with that beef liver for example, you can ease into it. You don't have to just like, I think we once again that all or nothing mentality is we think, oh, I got beef liver, I gotta only make the beef liver for meal. So now I'm gonna just make liver and onions, you know, I mean like, we don't think about the fact that, well, hold on. In our humanity, in our humanness, if you're not used to something, if something's not familiar, you have hesitancy and that. And you should like we, we should have hesitancy towards new things because that's what keeps us alive. Right? Like if, when you're, imagine ancestral, if you came upon a new region and you didn't know what a plant was or a certain animal was or certain waterway was, you better be hesitant because something could come out of there and kill you. Right. If you were in Florida back ancestrally, and you went too close to the water, an alligator could come out and kill you. Right. So hesitancy is a good thing. But we want to get to a place, particularly when it's something we know is good for us and we want to get to a couple places. So one is we have to remember that just because something doesn't taste as good, like what's the best? Like, just because something doesn't taste like you're familiar with. So just because it doesn't taste like a ribeye doesn't mean that it's necessarily bad. And I think a lot of people default right away thinking that organ meat is just gonna, it's just gonna taste bad. I, I haven't had it, it's just gonna taste bad. And, and I think I always say that like, incarcerated people are a really great example of this. So when you go into incarceration, I've been told that the food is horrible. And so when you first get in, you hate it, but then when you get out, you miss it. And I, and it's because we will, as long as we do something regularly, we will act, we will acclimatize to, will become good. Like it will become something you actually crave. You can train your palate to pretty much like almost anything, but you just have to be patient with yourself. And it really does Go fast. It can go as quickly as two weeks. So here are some tips on how to accomplish, you know, am I, am I saying that right? But basically how to ease into it. So you get that beef liver, instead of making it the whole meal, you keep it frozen because you're going to probably receive it frozen.

Yeah.

And you just pull it out when you're having ground meat. So when you're having your ground beef and it doesn't even have to be beef, it could be turkey, it could be whatever ground meat you have, you just take that liver and you grate it right into the ground meat and then put it right back in the freezer.

Oh, that's a great idea.

And all you need to do is focus on the ratio. So when you have the liver, it's going to be big. And let's just say you're working with like a pound of ground meat. So I find that as long as you don't go over like 20, 25% of the, of organ meat to the ground meat, then you're okay. So if we have a pound of, you know, ground meat that's about 16 tablespoons, 16 ounces, I should say. So I find that I basically will take about 2 ounces, or sorry, 2 tablespoons of, of graded liver and I will add it to that ground meat. So I don't usually go higher than four tablespoons. So that's like, I start with like maybe one and I go up to maybe two, maybe three. And that's just taking the graded, you know, liver and putting it in. And the reason why you don't want to go too high is because that's going to change the texture of the meat and it's going to change the flavor. So when we're easing into something, we want to maintain the highest percentage, the highest ratio of the thing that we're used to and have the new thing the lowest. That's how we start to get, you know, get it into our diet effortlessly. So you can do the grading of the liver. You can also do this thing that people do, it's called liver pills. Basically where you take the frozen liver, you let it defrost just a tiny bit, but then you cut it into very, very tiny bite size, like pill sized pieces. You can then stick those pieces in your freezer on a tray, on a tray, and then, and then put them in a bag after they've refrozen. And now you have all these little like portion size of liver. You can also do it in like, you can Blend it in a blender and then pour it into, like, ice trays. And then you have an ice tray portion. And then every time you go to have like, I don't know, a smoothie or something like that, you can throw it in your smoothie and you won't taste it because it's such a small amount.

Yeah.

So you can do that as well. And then when you're ready, you can also incorporate. You can make pates and, and, and you can, you can braise, you can kind of saute it. But I just find, like, one thing that a lot of people don't realize is a lot of people are overcooking the organs when they go to make them. So like liver, kidney, heart, even, they shouldn't. Like when we cook something and you pull it off the bur. Off the stove, it's still cooking in the pan. So there's, there's, there's sort of like, I always recommend to people, when you want to keep things so that they're not overcooked, you pull them off when they're still a little red or pink because it's still going to keep cooking in that pan, but you pull it off and you let the residual heat finish it versus letting it finish in the pan the whole, you know, over the. Over the stovetop.

Right.

But that little tip right there will change everyone's relationship to the organ because when it's overcooked, it gets stronger in flavor. So. And that's usually what. It's the texture that people don't like because it gets, like, kind of chalky. And then it also gets very irony or very metallic. And that's because it's overcooked.

Yeah.

So. So right away, just try to keep it not as overcooked and then portion it out and just ease into it. But what's beautiful is when we start to. So, so organ meats have an umami to them. And I'm sure you've noticed that with pluck. Pluck has a specific taste to it. It's not a bad taste, but specific and to the point where. I don't know if this is true for you, but when I. Because I use it all the time when I have like, let's say eggs or something, without it, that item doesn't taste. It tastes plain to me. Like, it doesn't taste good to me anymore.

Yeah, that's how I've gotten. And if I, If I make something and I'm eating it, I'm like, oh, I forgot the plug.

And so, yeah, because it does. It tastes almost like too plain. It's like this is not as interesting. Right. And that's the umami and the. So umami is the fifth unique taste we have. Bitter, sour, salty and sweet. Those are. And in the US we're primarily salty and sweet. That's, that's all pretty much if you're eating foods from a grocery store, that's what they're skewed towards is salty, sweet. So basically when you go to eat foods and if you, there's any bitterness in them or sourness or even umami, sometimes they'll taste hard on you. Like, you won't like them because they're not sweet and salty. So basically Pluck has an umami. And then I also recommend you incorporate bitter and sour foods. But that's how you change someone's palate. You can actually get them to be more adventurous eaters if you just start to incorporate these other flavored foods. And organ meats have that. So all you have to do is start to incorporate that liver in that ground meat or just start to like. Ideally, I mentioned the organ pills where you're swallowing them. Ideally, you're actually tasting it more. So you're getting it in the ground meat because that's how your palate is going to start to change. And once your palate, once your palate changes, you're going to find that you actually crave it. Like you actually want it. But for things like heart or kidney, we have tons of recipes on our website@eatpluck.com and then there's a tab that says recipes. There's a great recipe from a cookbook called It Takes Guts. By gosh. What I'm, I'm skipping on her name, Ashley. So Ashley Van Houten, she's also known as the Muscle Maven. She's got a great cookbook called It Takes Guts. She gave us her, her heart jerky recipe. And what we did was we, we call it. We pluckerized it. So we, we took the recipe but we like added pluck to it. And it's really, really good. And it makes heart just easy to eat because you're. It's more like jerky. It's still got a strong taste that you got to get acclimated to. But I want. I found that after I started eating it and I had it for a couple days, I actually once, just like I just said, I started to crave it. Like I wanted that flavor.

Yeah, I love that. And I'll, I'll definitely include all your Info and, and the website and everything on in the show notes because yeah, now I'm excited to go look at those recipes and look at that too.

And tong is a great one by the way. I mean, not because I heard you say that you're going to be getting the tongue.

I think we're getting it in ours. It is one that I said I don't think I could eat it, but maybe you'll change my mind.

Oh, no.

Yeah.

Tongue is amazing. So heart and tongue are both the closest to muscle meat. So those are going to be like, you know, really your easiest entries because they're, they're so similar to or meat. And I even say like the easiest organ to start with. The easiest species organ to start with is chicken. Chicken hearts, hands down, the easiest.

My mom has always loved chicken hearts. I like chicken liver and the hearts were always kind of okay. I just, I passed them on to her.

Oh, there you go though. So if you like chicken liver, I mean, but either way, the chicken is the mildest species. You can start with those organs and then graduate to beef. But you're getting these beef organs. So. Yeah, yeah. The key will just be, you know, really keeping it at lower ratios initially and then increasing them with the tongue though we have a great tongue recipes on our website. So tongue shows up in America mostly in Mexican restaurants and it's at taco places. There they'll usually have a dish called langua and that's tongue, that's beef tongue. And what's really cool about beef tongue is not only is it more flavorful than muscle meat, but it's also cheaper. So anyone that's ever like, oh, you know, I, I hear all these people saying I should be eating 100 grass fed and it's just so expensive. Those rib eyes are like 24 bucks. I'm like, yeah, but guess what? That same 100 grass fed cow has a tongue, has a heart, has a liver. And that stuff is not 24 pound. Like the tongue is more like $6, $7 a pound. So you can get the same quality of animal but just get a different part. And, and the tongue is really cool because so if you're someone who makes braised meat or let's say even like a Taco Tuesday kind of thing where you, where you slow cook or pressurized cook a meat, you can do the exact same thing with the tongue. So let's just say if I'm making pork, pork shoulder or something and I'm, and I'm making pulled pork, so I'll Put, you know, everything into my pressure cooker. And I'll put the pork in there, but there usually will be some liquid, right? And then I'll put also the tongue in there. And you put that. When you get the tongue, it's got that really kind of like, thick kind of. It's just like our tongue, but it's thicker. It's got like a really thick kind of skin on it. It's very sandpapery. So that's going to be on there. Don't let that overwhelm you. Just take the whole, whole tongue. Don't do anything to it. Just put it right in there with the pork. Let it cook for like an hour and a half with the pork. And then when it's done, you're going to pull out that tongue and that sheath. That kind of skin is going to just kind of be peeling apart, peeling off of the muscle of the tongue, and it comes off so easily. It's almost like if you bake a potato right, you can peel off the outside of the potato. So it's just like that. It just peels right off. And now you have a muscle. I mean, it's really no different than regular muscle meat. And it's very delicate. It's. It can. If you cook it, you can actually, like, shred it. You know, if you cook it enough, you can also chop it up. But it's also going to be smaller than that pork shoulder. So when you go to then serve the pork, pork shoulder, all you got to do is like, basically either shred or chop up that tongue really nicely, finely, so you can't recognize it in chunks, and then combine it with a pork shoulder. And now no one will even know it's there.

Wow, those are great ideas. I'm excited about that now because you're telling us something. I'm just like, I don't know if I can. I could do it, but I used to say that about different organs, too. And once I've done it and tried it, and it's like you said, I think it's just learning in the whole process of it and cooking it and. And learning the right ways to. To do things, I think is key in that, you know?

Yeah. And I think. I think too, like, I think sometimes we put. This is maybe a different topic, but I think we sometimes put the wrong language on food. And I say the wrong. Maybe that's the heart. That's too. Too much of a judgment. But it's like we. We put incorrect language on food. So we say, like, Oh, I love this. Right. And we, we use that language when we're talking about food. But really, if you think about it, love is more something you love a person. Like I love my wife, I love my children. Right. So when our brains hear love, that's usually what it's connected to, is our connections with other humans. But then when you say, well, I love this taco or this ice cream, well, now my brain thinks, oh, well then that means you love it just like your kids. So, oh, we better eat that. We better put lots of energy in towards that thing and make sure that it's as much of a focus as our kid or whatever else we love. Right. So we're using this really intense language when. And here I'm a chef, right. And I'm saying this. I don't think we should be putting such an emphasis on food because that's the. We're digging a hole for ourselves.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, because we're already in a society where we're raised to believe that we should reward or, well, reward ourselves for good things, but also reward ourselves for hard things and reward ourselves for just. Yeah, like I don't feel good. You know, whatever it is, like so, so good or bad. We're, we're raised to, to, to reward ourselves with like treats and alcohol and all these kind of addictive things like desserts. Right. When we're our birthdays. Oh, we're celebrating birthday. It's all around cake. Halloween, all these holidays are all around the sweets and all that kind of stuff. You had a hard day at school, honey. Here, let's go get ice cream.

Yeah.

Oh, you passed your test. Let's go get ice cream. You know, I mean, like, so it's hardwired in us that this food, this very addictive foods are such a priority. So I'm always trying to deprioritize it as much as I can so that I. It doesn't have such a hold over me.

Yeah, yeah. So what do you do in those cases? Since he brought that up, what do you do with your kids? And, and the ones classified, quote unquote, picky eaters? And what, what advice do you have, listener, in those areas?

It is. First of all, I wish I could say I've got it all figured out and just do what I do and you'll be fine. I don't think there's anything like that in life where it's one size fits all, first of all. But secondly, my kids are 12 and 8 and I find that the only Control I truly have is in the household. So I make a very conscious effort of. I don't bring in food that I don't want them to eat. Now, sometimes I make an exception if it's like, their birthday, which is exactly what I'm saying. Like, so I do sometimes making one exception, sometimes it bleeds into more. But, like, that's always my goal is, like, to. To. If I don't want them to eat it, don't bring it in the house. And I'm not always perfect with it, but that is the goal. So it's all. That's always what I'm striving towards, which is, if it's in the house, I know we'll eat it, so don't bring it in the house. And. And I know that I always think that's very fascinating because historically, when I've worked with clients, I. I would get feedback of, like, oh, my kid, they're so. They're so There's. They're addicted to Cheerios. And I'll be like, oh, that's really interesting, because Cheerios don't grow on trees. Like, how did your kid get Cheerios in their life? Well, it's because you brought it into their life, right? It's. We're the ones. We're the ones causing ourselves the biggest harm, right? So. So that's one thing. If it's not in the house, I won't eat it. So then two is you do turn it into. You make it hard for yourself to get these things. Like, so the harder it is for you to get it, then hopefully it weeds you out of the emotional eating. Like, so if I really am wanting something and I'm willing to go out of my way to get it, then that's probably something I need in that moment. But most of us, if we just go for a walk, if we just have a glass of water, like, if we just change the stimulus of the environment. So let's just say you're feeling very emotional. You are listening to something. You just had a conversation with someone. Something is triggering you to feel very emotional. Well, sometimes it's the environment that you're in that's triggering you. So all you need to do is just get outside, go for a walk, and you're in a totally different stimulus, and suddenly you're not feeling triggered as much. And suddenly now you're not craving that ice cream because you're no longer in the environment that was supporting you and wanting it. So it can sometimes be that simple. We just have to. We have to build in these, these triggers or these, these kind of like pivots into our life, particularly around the things that aren't serving us. I mean, I will say that as well. Like, I am not a fan of taking away someone's process with their diet. Like, if you're a vegan or if you're a carnivore or whatever you are, like, I want you to have the dignity of that process, but I want you to listen to your body. And so whatever you're doing, if your body is in constant inflammation, is, if it's in constant, like ibs, you know, irritable bowel syndrome, if you're having skin flare ups, if you're having dandruff, like, if you're having all the things we've mentioned at the top of the podcast, then that to me is a sign that what you're doing isn't working right. But I still believe you have to have the dignity of that process. You have to allow yourself to play out whatever it is you, you think you should be eating, because that's the only way we're going to change. Yeah, I learned, I learned very early on when I was a chef. I, I was learning all this stuff about, you know, the state of the agricultural system and the state of our food industry. And I was like, oh my God, I gotta talk to you. I gotta share this with everybody. And so I would go to parties, you know, while I was in culinary school, and I meet new people and be like, oh my gosh, did you know this about the, you know, the CAFOs and how they treat the animals and da, da, da. And the person would leave the conversation saying, thanks, like, you completely ruined me. Like, I have no idea what to eat now.

Yeah.

You know, so because I had all, I was, I was kind of presenting them with all the issues, but I had no solutions at that time. And so I quickly learned like a. You don't talk about it unless someone asks you. Because if they don't ask, that means they're not ready.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that. Before I forget, because I've had a few thoughts along the way too. I'd love for you to share before we go today. What as just share on cooking oils. What are your favorite weather. You know, there's so much talk on all the cooking oils and the different things in cooking and, and cookware, your favorites that you like to cook with. I think those are important key things too, in your kitchen and when you're cooking.

Absolutely. So cooking oil wise, first of All I don't typically like to cook my oils too close to the heat. And that goes for my seasonings as well. Because you don't want things to get, you know, too much heat to them. Particularly like something like with pluck, like you want to keep it away from heat because, you know, heat can destroy vitamins and minerals. So that's one thing is I always try to just kind of honor like that piece of like you want it in a cold, cold place or maybe on your table or something, but you don't want it to be in a hot, hot location, first of all. But in terms of the oils I'm always looking for what is, what is the oil or fat that is closest to its natural state. So meaning when you're eating these kind of vegetable oils, for example, for them to pull out, you know, canola from the rape seed or like from, or, or, or I don't know, like sunflower from the sunflower seed or, or some of these just, you know, safflower from that grain. It's like for them to pull these things out, they have to do a lot to them. Like sometimes in, in for canola oil, for example, they have to pressurize it. They then have to, they have to soak it sometimes in these kind of like these, these like I, I'm forgetting exactly what it is. But like chemicals basically they have to pull, put them using these chemicals to leach out the different fats and oils and whatnot from them. So right away that's, I look at that like how processed. What was the process to get it to the state that I'm now using it? And in most cases that kind of kicks, kicks me out of, from using any of these seed oils because they're all so overly processed. So the most, mostly what I'm using is I'm using animal fats. I do use some coconut oil sometimes that's, that's a little, you know, that's less processed than some of these seed oils. The coconut oil as well. I'm looking for, you know, virgin coconut oil, extra virgin for the olive oil. Same thing. It's usually pressed. There's not much else done to it. And so I'm looking for extra virgin. Whereas if you just see olive oil and it doesn't say extra virgin or cold pressed, then that means it's very processed. It's kind of no different than some of the seed oils. It's been overly process. Same thing with sesame seed oil. I look for un, you know, unfiltered, unprocessed you know, or, or I look for the least amount of processing done. But so I'm mostly on my, in my kitchen, ghee, which is clarified butter, is probably the thing I cook with the most. I cook with lard as well. So I, I, I either render the lard from, from some of the fat of the, of the, of the pig, or I'll just. You sometimes use even my bacon lard, but I use that and then tallow as well, which you'll find when you get your animals, you just need to basically take the fat from that cow and you gotta put it in the, in a pan in the oven and you can slow cook it and stuff. And it just, it just, all that fat comes out of it, and then you just pour it into a container, let it cool, and then you got tallow. It's, it's you, you can also strain it in case there's any bits. But it's, it's surprisingly simple. It solidifies the, all these items I mentioned, they all solidify at room temperature when it's not too hot, and they cook beautifully. I mean, ghee's been around for thousands and thousands of years. Like, I much prefer that kind of fat than these seed oils that have only been around for, you know, a hundred years, you know, or less. Right. It's like ghee is therapeutic. It's been around forever. And basically for anyone out there is like, but I can't do dairy. What's beautiful about ghee, and you do have to be careful of the, you know, the supplier. But most ghee has no dairy in it. It's so, and that's what makes it clarified butter, is they're removing the dairy solids from the butter and you're left with just the fat. And that is what ghee is. Yeah.

Yeah. So even if he's one of my favorites, that's, I use that to cook a lot.

Yeah.

Now.

Oh, and there's another fat that I love using that a lot of people don't even think about, which is duck fat. Duck fat is phenomenal. If you're cooking any kind of potato, like a roasted potato, it was, it's, it's, it's almost like the potato and duck fat were like distant lovers at one point because they're just designed to go together. Like, they just, they, they blend so well. And the duck fat makes the roasted potato taste so delicious that it's, it's unparalleled. There's nothing in my judgment that tastes as good, fat wise. If you're making French Fries or if you're making roasted potatoes, anything like that.

Is it hard to find? Because I can't say that I've seen duck fat, but maybe I haven't looked.

You know, I mean, you're gonna probably find it in kind of those healthier stores or even stores like Whole Foods and stuff, but it usually will be in the oil and fat section. So it' usually cold. It's. It's on the shelves. It's just going to be, you know, in a jar. You usually find it next to lard or tallow. And it's like some of the brands I've seen out there is. What's that? Epic Provisions. I think they make one.

Okay.

And you can definitely find it online. But duck fat is one I usually. I. So if I'm not using the fat regularly, I keep it in my refrigerator. And that goes for seed oils as well, because a lot of times if I have, let's say, an unrefined sesame oil, for example, so sometimes if I'm making Asian cuisine, I'll use that. I will keep that in my refrigerator because when the oil is separated from the seed, it becomes very temperamental. Like, you don't want. Again, you don't want it to get hot. You don't want it to be in clear glass. You know, like, if you see a vegetable oil in clear glass, I would stay away from that. Like, even olive oil, like, that's clearly someone that doesn't care about the nutritional value of that oil at all, because clear glass is going to expose it to too much light and potentially too much heat. So I'm always looking for colored glass. But then I keep the ones that I don't use often in the refrigerator. Now, like ghee, I can absolutely keep out, particularly if it's not too hot. Now, obviously, in, like, Texas, and even where I am right now, it's way too humid. Like, if. If you don't mind, you know, your fat's going to be liquid. As long as you don't mind that, then you're good.

Yeah, it'll do that here in the summer in the pantry, it'll get liquid, which. What about like your. Say you've cooked bacon and you keep the. The fat in a jar? Or is that something that you can keep out indefinitely? Or does that need to go in the fridge?

I mean, most fat, as long as you've removed, you know, there's not tons of moisture in it, it won't go bad. I mean, fat is. Fat in many ways is a preservative. Like fat and salt both can be a preservative. So. So like there's a, there's a, like a type of meat out there. Well, it's kind of like a jerk. It's a meat bar kind of thing, but it's an old, old recipe. It's called pemmican and that bar, so that's a way to preserve meat. And basically they used it way back in the day. I'm talking like old west time, and even before they even found some pemmican, I think in the, the pyramids. But basically what it is is they take the muscle meat and they dry it out and they powder it. So you have this powdered muscle meat and they take 50% of that and 50% of the fat, like tallow, and they combine the two and they create like a little like meat kind of bar from it or brick, you know, whatever you want to call it from it. And then that, that would absolutely preserve it. I mean, it could preserve it for 25 years. It would be fine. You could eat it 25 years later and still be good.

Yeah, well, and I have to say, because all of this goes so against kind of the way I was brought up and going through the, the low fat, no fat craze and all, you know, where you cooked with margarine and, and so over the years, how it's evolved and even, you know, I know my husband, you know, he grew up with the bacon fat and you know, the cast iron skillets. I didn't grow up that way. I grew up with seed oils and Teflon pants and all the things. So it's, it's been really amazing for all the things that I've learned through the years and now really just coming so much further and learning that lard and tallow and you know, these, these fats that you cook with like that are, are not bad things, you know, because I think they've been classified that way for so long. And it's just, it's opened my mind up to, to, to the, the nutrients, the benefits of those versus like an oil. And then also like the, the cookware that I was saying. I mean, we have several cast iron pots and stuff. And so. And I love those.

You asked about cooking utensils and containers, like so, yeah, I use cast iron a lot of. I also use stainless steel. Those are my primary two.

That's my two.

Yeah. I'm not a fan of the non stick stuff. Even the ones that they say are safe because they're even funny now that the ones they said were safe or not, you know, so I just don't trust that tech. And I, and I just, I mean even cast iron you got to be careful with because like you get iron from it. So if you're someone who has an abundance of iron and you're always cooking in cast iron, you could be getting too much iron, you know, so you do have to be careful. So I just find I mix it up all the time. So I mostly do stainless steel. But then every blue moon I'll do cast iron and a lot of times I'll dictate it by what kind of sear I want on whatever. You know, what I, how I want the food I'm cooking to look at the end. I think slow cooked is also really great way. So I have like a, I have an instant pot or pressure, you know, or a slow cooker as well. Like I have that kind of stuff because I think that that's one that a lot of people don't use. But it's severely good for you to have these slow cooked meats that, where you're breaking down the collagens, you're breaking down some of these, these things that you wouldn't normally eat if you just, you didn't slow cook them. Like some of the cartilage and the bone stuff like that, that gets broken down sometimes when you are, when you're slow cooking. Like that stuff is really good for us. Particularly the marrow and the collagen.

Yeah.

Cartilage or anything like that. So those are giving you nutrients. And that goes back to our discussion about whole animal. I mean like you want to eat all the different cuts and they're all cooked differently. I mean, not all of them, but they're mostly cooked differently. Like you're going to cook oxtail very differently than you would a ribeye, right?

Yeah.

So I'm, I'm a big fan of that. And also the power slow cooked. Me also, this is kind of just a tip that I find moves the health needle the most and people don't take the time to do. But I really, you'll, you'll get exponential, you'll get more bang for your buck and for your health if you just do this one thing, which is meal plan. Meal planning is. Yes, it takes a moment. You got to pick one day of the week. You gotta actually like go through either a cookbook or a magazine and find the recipe you want to make. You got to, you know, look at your, your schedule and base the, the day of the week. That you're cooking based off your schedule. So don't just make a random meal plan. Like, look at your schedule and be like, okay, on Tuesday, I know I'm working from morning to night and I'm not going to have time to stop to make my food. And you don't want to be in a position where you're eating out. If, if you're eating out there, it's impossible to be healthy. Impossible? Yeah, because they're, once again, they're businesses which, using cheap ingredients so they can make the most profit. And there's not a lot of profit in the food industry. So I'm not faulting them. I'm just saying that's the reality. We gotta, we gotta be honest with the reality. It's like, yeah, they're not in it for our health, they're in it to make profit. So the only way to really take care of yourself is to control your own ingredients and cook for yourself or have someone that's cooking for you using those ingredients. Right. So meal planning is beautiful because you can be like, okay, that day, I'm not going to do anything complicated. I'm going to do a slow cooker meal because I know I can throw everything in in the morning. I can time it out. And then at 5, when I'm done, it's ready.

Yeah.

All I have to do is add, you know, I could add some spinach or kale to it and let the residual heat wilt that or something. You know, whatever you want. Right. But the point being is that you're. You're building that meal plan based off what you need and what works for you. And then you create your grocery list from that meal plan. You can even involve your kids in the meal plan. That's a great way to get your kids to be more adventurous. They're the ones picking the me. And then you take them to go grocery shopping. Right. They're the ones you're. You're together, you're picking. Oh, let's get this red bell pepper. It said one. You know, set a red one. But which one looks the best? You know, you start to pull them into the process, but you have a grocery list when you go to the store. So now you're not buying things based on your emotional, you know, by being hangry or whatever. You're only going off of that list. So now you're not bringing in food that you don't want your kids to eat.

Yeah.

So you're building, you're building your week off of only the food you're going to use. You don't have to worry about lunches. Like the focus I always tell people, like, look, just focus on dinners, make more than you need and then that's tomorrow's lunch.

Yeah.

Like, don't complicate things. Like breakfast. You can eat the same three same things every three days, you know. Right. So have three breakfasts that you like and then just repeat those every three days. And you can do this same with dinners if you really want to as well. It's up to you, but don't over complicate it. The key is to eat real food and hopefully the foods that you're eating are the ingredient versus having ingredients. And then do that as much as possible and you will find that the weight will just kind of melt off. Yeah. And then if you can, even now eating, you know, food is definitely a priority. Like that's going to be the thing that moves your weight the most. But then if you can then also incorporate simple movements, but incorporate just going for a walk after you eat. And what a beautiful way to spend time with your family too. Right after dinner you all go for a walk together and it could be just 15 minute walk, whatever, but you're moving your body after you've eaten it, supporting the digestion and then just those little movements. And now instead of worrying about how much am I walking, how much am I doing of this thing, just focus on doing that little bit every day. And that's how I look at pluck as well. It's not about how much pluck you use, it's about doing it daily and with every meal.

Yeah.

And you will start to see as you eat, you know, control your own greens, you're going to start seeing that the weight just melts off. You're going to start feeling better, you're going to start sleeping better, you're going to feel closer to your family because you're all do, you're all eating together, you're all walking together. You know, whatever it is, this is a family activity. It's, it's so undermined how important these things are. And to me these are way more important than like that what I was talking about, that emphasis, that over emphasis. I'm like, oh, I love this food. It's like, no, no, love. Love the process of feeling good in your body. Love the process of being close to your family. Don't like, let the food just be food. And yes, you can definitely go to nice restaurants and you can enjoy, you can have moments where you're putting tons of emphasis on that food. But that's the minimum. Like that's something we don't need all the time. What we need all the time is, is food that's working for us. And when we get caught up in these, this emotional tie to these foods and to soothing our, our emotions and to fighting our humanness because our, because our humanness is our humanity is like I, I want immediate gratification. I want, I want like, if, if I, like, if I'm not eating regularly, then I'm going to be over hungry. And when I'm over hungry, I'm just going to gravitate towards the food that is easiest to get calories from. That's going to most likely be ultra processed foods. Like, like we can't, I'm always telling people like, like willpower doesn't work. Like, stop it. Just, just forget about trying to, oh, I'm gonna bring it in my house and I'm not gonna eat it. I'm just gonna really try hard and I won't eat it.

It.

It's like, no, no, no, no. You are going to eat it because your, you will, your mind will find a circumstance that will like, that will basically convince you that this is the time to eat for you to eat it. Our minds will play havoc on our, on our desires to eat it. Right. And so I'm just like, we're smarter than that. We know certain things don't work. Yes. There's certain things that are out of our power. This ultra process behemoth, you know, these big ag companies, those are out of our power. Right. The marketing of those things, those are out of our power. So what isn't our power? And this is just a recap, but what is our power is eating our food, eating real food, controlling the ingredients, setting ourselves up for success. So we know that if we go to the grocery store and we're hungry, we're gonna buy crap. So what, what can I do? I can go there with a grocery list. I can stick to my list and I can get in and out. And if you know that you're not good about growing the grocery stores, then guess what? We have tons of amazing modern amenities. You can have someone you can type in and send the list to some other organization and then they'll pick it up and deliver it for you.

Yeah.

Like don't put yourself in situations that are setting yourself up to fail. Yeah.

Yeah. And you know, everything that you shared is just. That's why I knew I was going to love having you on because I have listened to you on other things is that you share. It's an all encompassing thing. It's not, it's not just one little piece. It's not eat this, eat that quick diet this, quick that, whatever. It's, it's everything. And I love that you involve family in it and the, the peace in that and involving your kids in the, in the process of the cooking. And I think that's how you know our family. Our kids learn that they may not realize that you're teaching them, that you're trying to educate them, that they're just having fun with it. It's a part of your life, it's part of what your family does together and goes for the walk afterwards. And I think those are so many keys that are missing in today's society and how we, we do view food and spend time around food. And I don't know, I just feel like you have shared so many incredible little nuggets and just takeaways that anyone can, can use. And I just, I'm so honored that you've been on here today. Before you go though, also share. I know that you've been a published author on some cookbooks and stuff I would love and I can put those in the show notes unless they're on your website too. I would love for you to share where they can find more info on you.

Yeah, no two of them. Well, you can definitely find me on@epluck.com that's, there's a bit about me. There's also another site called eatnakedkitchen.com My wife is a functional nutritionist and that's a site that we, we had and there's lots of stuff there too that I've done over the years like recipes and stuff like that. The two cookbooks. Well there's, I guess there's more than that. So there's, there's one book that was hers called Eat Naked. It was her nutrition book and I did the recipes for that. There's about 70. I want to, maybe it's 40 or 70 recipes in that that are really, really great. And then we did a follow up cookbook called the Naked Foods Cookbook. Now both of these books are out of print at this point and I'm actually in the process of rebuilding a new one and I'm excited to when I'm ready to share that. But it's going to incorporate organ meats. But it's going to be very much this philosophy of like how to make really delicious meals simply easily and from Real ingredients. Because it's always funny. Like, a lot of cookbooks are either they're complicated or they just tell you, okay, you've made this, now go buy this product. And it's some kind of like, you know, com, you know, dressing, pre made dressing or sauce. And you're just like, what is in this? And it's horrible ingredients.

Yeah. Like, yeah, what?

Like, like one thing I love, Sharon, and we can even. I know we're coming in, but I think this would bring such huge value to everyone is, is how to make your own dressing. Because dressings and sauces are. Where are. They're the biggest culprits, you know, like the stabilizers, the synthetic ingredients, the bad oils, the sugars, all these things that are in these dressings. And we're just pouring these things over our food. So a lot of times what happens, I tell people, okay, make your own food. So they make their own food. They make, let's say a salad. They make. They make grilled chicken. They add it to the salad and then they pour. They don't make their own dressing, so they then pour, you know, Paul Newman's or whatever dressing that's out there over this, this beautiful salad they just made. And now it's no longer a whole food. It's. It's now got this horrible fat and stuff over it that's pretty much making every good thing that you're eating bad. So I'm all about, like, let's take the good and then build on the good and make it even better. Let's not, let's not, you know, hinder ourselves. The food we eat, which, like, you know, when you use these seasonings that have all these sugars and additives, you're. You're doing the same thing. You're. You're taking your homemade food and you're making it worse instead of better. I, I want efficiency and I want flavor and I want health. Right. So I want it to build better, not worse. So dressings are, you know, something that are so easy. And in one of the cookbooks, we actually have something like 10 Mason jar dressings. So you can make them in five minutes, and I'll give you one of them right now. So basically you take a mason jar, and when we talk about dressings, we're talking about ratios, really. So in the U.S. typically, the ratio is three parts fat or oil to one part acid, which could be vinegar, could be lemon juice, lime juice, pineapple juice, like anything that's kind of more acidic. Right?

Okay.

And when we say the ratio or the parts. What we're talking about is just the vehicle you use to measure that. So whatever I use to measure the oil needs to be the same measurement tool for the vinegar. So three parts, whatever. So it could be a cap, it could be a tablespoon, it could be a fourth of a cup. You know, whatever you use, it's just gotta. If you gotta use three parts of it for the fat, the oil, and then one part of it for the vinegar. So let's just say if I'm making a dressing for just myself, I might use 3 tablespoons of olive oil, extra virgin olive oil, and then I might use one tablespoon of balsamic vinegar. And that's it. Put it in the mason jar, shake it up, and then you. Yes, you can add some salt, pepper, pluck. You know, you can add whatever seasonings you want, but the base for your dressing is done.

Yeah.

And you'll see it tastes really good. Like, yeah, it's. It's not too bitter. It's not too vinegary. It's like, it's just perfect. And you. And all you need to do is just kind of finesse it a little bit with, like I said, the salt or whatever season you want. And a lot of times what I do is I'll make that dressing without salt or pepper. I'll pour it over the salad, and then I'll put. Put pluck over it. So now I'm already getting the salt and other flavors right. So it's like you don't even have to necessarily salt and pepper it if you don't want. Yeah, but that's kind of your base. And you can change the vinegar. It could be champagne vinegar, it could be red wine vinegar, white wine vinegar. Like, you can lemon juice if you want to get really clean. Right. Apple cider vinegar. Like, you can change the vinegar and you can change the oil, but you want to keep it around that ratio. And Mason jar, just shake it up. And it's so fast. I mean, as long as you have the ingredients on hand, we're talking. You just made it your own dressing. That's delicious in what, 30, 60 seconds? Yeah, like, it's. It's amazing. And I really, you know, I cannot overemphasize this. You know, we're talking about eating real food. We talk. We started out the podcast talking about, you know, listening to your body once again. And I really feel like we need to end there. Like, we need to end coming back to the beginning, which is the body will not lie to you. So we just gotta tune attune to the body's frequencies. Right? Or to the body's communication of things. So, for example, I'll tell you this story, but this applies to everybody. So I, I was once hired to work with these people that were starting a restaurant company. They, so they hired me to do the menu and they, when we started the relationship, I needed to understand, well, what was their benchmark? So let's just say they wanted a roasted potato or fried potato for their menu. I need to know, what did they think a fried potato should taste like? Like, So I needed to know their benchmarks. So they would, they drove me around, you know, LA and Southern California and they brought me to the places that they were, thought, this is the best fried potato we have. We want whatever you create to be equal or better. And it was so interesting because we, we stopped at this kind of Thai place that was in Long beach and we opened the door to walk in and I immediately get hit with this kind of like, burnt kind of smell that anyone who's ever been into a fried restaurant where they're frying stuff, you know what I'm talking about? You're hit with this kind of really almost bitter smell in the air. Like, very kind of, almost like rancid. There's just something that your body responds to you, like, oh, this is off. Right? And I, I know anyone that's walked into some kind of bar that has fried foods, you know, any kind of like fast food restaurant, you've all experienced this. You just haven't listened. Yeah, but your body responds like, that's strong. Like, what's that? Right? Well, that's what happened. And so I immediately, I was like, oh, this is not going to be good. Like, I immediately, I didn't even have to taste the food. I just opened the door and I got that whiff of that, that rancid, you know, oil that they were using to fry those potatoes in. And I'm like, there is nothing you're going to serve me here that I'm going to think is good. And they, we got it. We got the roast potatoes. I tasted one. I'm like, yeah, I knew exactly. This tastes just like the air that I smell. And, and they were like, what are you talking about? I don't understand. Then what happened is I spent the next two weeks, I said, let me just cook for you and, and change. Help change your palate. Because you can change someone's palate in two weeks. Weeks. It's. It's amazing, actually. After the story, I'll even share something that everyone listening is can do. And you will change your palette in two weeks. So okay, so it's super exciting. So, so in two weeks we then went back to that restaurant and actually I didn't go with them. They went on their own because I didn't want to go back to this place. I was like, don't take me back to this place. And then we went back or they went back and they were like, you were so right. We, the minute we opened the door, we now smell that we understood. Now we're talking. We went to taste in it, tasted it, it horrible. And I was like, yeah, it's because we're so where our bodies are so acclimated to this subpar, rancid, horrible kind of ultra processed foods that we don't actually know the true taste of real food. And so one of the ways to get recalibrate your taste buds is you want to remove these foods. So you want to remove the, the foods that are kind of causing the issue. So for, and it really depends anyone listening? Like, so I'm going to kind of share that. The easiest route, like the kind of first step or you can jump to the last step. So the last step would be you immediately remove any foods that are sugar, any foods that convert quickly into sugar in your diet. So I'm talking like spaghetti, like, any starches, like, like pastas, rice, grains, anything like that. You remove that from your diet. You remove anything that is sweet naturally. So that goes for ice cream, cakes, cookies, all that stuff. But you also remove foods that convert quickly into your body, like, like pineapple, peaches, any, anything really beyond berries, any other fruit that converts so quickly into your blood sugar or into sugar in your blood. And then you also remove, you remove any kind of processed foods and any alcohol. So you remove all these foods. And basically what you're eating for anyone that wants to go all the, all the way is you're eating protein. So any animal protein, you're eating fats. But healthy fats, you're not eating seed oils. You're eating just like the flats we talked about ghee. You could eat ghee, you could do lar tallow, duck fat, you can do coconut oil, you can even do butter. You know what I mean? So you're doing those. And then you're, and then you're doing vegetables and, and you're, you're, you're. That's really it Just do those kind of three things. Do that for two weeks and it's going to be hard around the third or fourth week or, sorry, the third or fourth day. But then it's going to get easier. And by the time you end that in two weeks, let's just say you're someone who came in drinking three glasses of wine a night. You will barely be able to finish one because it will. It will taste so sweet. You'll put a strawberry in your mouth because strawberries, like, in terms of berries, during the two weeks, I only want you having blueberries, blackberries or raspberries, not strawberries because they're too sweet. And I don't want you eating too much of them. Like, I want you filling your diet mostly with the protein, the vegetables and the fat. Right?

Yeah.

So do that. Remove dairy as well. Of course. So you're removing dairy. You're removing all the main allergens to dairy, like cheese and stuff. You're removing soy. And then you're also moving, like, grains, wheat and all that. Right. And in two weeks, not only will you have lost weight because all the inflammation from all the foods that are causing your diet will. You'll lose that. You'll lose water weight from that. But you'll start to taste the real food. You'll put a strawberry in your mouth and you will taste how sweet it is naturally. You don't need sugar or cream or anything added to it because it's already so sweet. Now, if that's too big of a jump for you, then start with what we've already discussed. Start with, I'm only going to eat foods I make, and you can eat anything, but it's got to be something you made, not something that's already made for you, like, not ultra processed. And if that's even too much, then start with, okay, instead of drinking this many sodas a day, every time I have anything that's not water, whether that's a soda, coffee, you name it, anything that's not water. For every glass of that thing that's not water, I have to drink two glasses of water. So if I have a coffee, I have to drink two glasses water. If I have a soda, I have to drink two. And I have the. I have to drink two of whatever size I had of that other thing. So that's. You can even start there. Like, so you could, you could simplify it. But just do that change for two weeks. And then if it's. If you're starting from zero and going to that initial change, then add to it the next two weeks, like, just. But keep, keep going until you get to that last one, which was just eating the protein, the, the vegetables and the fat. And I promise you, you will feel amazing. You will, it will be life changing. And you didn't do anything but just change how you ate. Yeah, I'm not telling, I'm not telling. You go take some special pill or something, you know, special like elixir or something like that. Like you're just removing the foods from your diet that are causing harm. That's.

Yeah, yeah. I think you need to have some kind of. I don't know, what am I trying to think of something where you share all this info. You know, it makes me think of like a mastermind or a webinar or a, you know, something where you put all this information and maybe you have it and I don't know about it, but in one place because I think you just, you have so much to share that I think can help so many people.

Thank you. That's. Like I said, that's my mission. And, and, and, and no way do I try to pretend I'm perfect at it. I'm still figuring out too. But I just know that, you know, when I got in this business 20 years ago, the, the popular diet at the time was the fat flesh diet.

And I remember that.

You remember that? Yeah, it was very popular at the time. And then of course, Atkins is probably. There was. There's always diet trends. Always, always. And anyone that's been in it for a while, they know, like you mentioned earlier, that like fat free trend. Right. There's always something going on. But I immediately identified, I was like, you know what? I have no interest in any of the trends. I don't buy any of that. That's going to come and go. But there's one thing that does not veer, and that's just real food. Yeah, that. I don't care what generation you, you come from. That always works. Yes, yes, like always. So that's where, that's kind of where my North Star is. And if I can help you get, you know, make it easier to get real food. That's. That is what I do, you know, reach out. But there's lots of different things you can do. I mean, there's. I think the key is that you gotta. We just need to be honest with ourselves. We're always, we. We gotta start with our human, our humanity and our humanness. And the humanness is like I've talked about earlier. It's like we're not perfect. We crave sugar, you know, we crave sweet things. We have stressful lives. We have all these things. So don't assume that you're perfect and that because you're starting this diet that you're just gonna, you know, you're gonna be in this bubble and none of these things, all these. The things you normally dealt with before the diet suddenly go away. It's like, they don't. You're still gonna have stressful days. You're still gonna want to emotionally eat. You're gonna still have moments of insecurity, whatever it is. Like, that's humanity. That's being alive. So what I try to do is I try to take ownership of, like, these things. Okay, this already exists. So how do I support myself in creating different triggers so that when I'm in a moment of feeling emotional, when I'm in a moment of craving sugar, that I can't default to the easiest, lowest hanging fruit, which is going into my freezer and grabbing ice cream. If I can make it, if I can change that. And you want to hear this is. This is a fascinating one. And I don't think a lot of people talk about this, but, like, you want to. You want to make it simpler for yourself. Convince yourself that there are certain foods you cannot eat. So let's just say, for example, so my family, many years ago, we went gluten free. It's because my wife has Hashimoto's, which is known for. Like, you. You want to go gluten free when you have that autoimmune because gluten can sometimes attack the thyroid. At least that's the knowledge that they have at this point. And. Right. And when you're hearing this podcast. Right. So in my family, when one person has, you know, a specific. A food specific kind of diet, we all do it because it's too hard to have one person eating gluten and one person not in a household. It's too. It's just too. It makes it too hard. It does exactly what I said earlier, which is it feeds our humanity of wanting to take those things versus supporting us in not getting them. Right.

Yeah.

So when we chose that as a family, I also went gluten free. I don't have that on autoimmune, so I didn't technically need to be autoimmune, like, gluten free. But I gotta tell you, it cancels out so much of the bad food out there. Like, so, for example, like, I go to grocery stores a lot, or I did. I used to go a ton. And that was kind of like my office and I, you know, whenever you go to grocery store, you always have samples. So I used to just grab sample after sample after sample and I would just suddenly be like, like, you know, months later, be like, why am I 20 pounds heavier? Like, what the heck? I'm not aware that I'm eating. And it's like, oh, no, it's because I'm eating all these, the samples. And then the samples are always processed food. Right. It's always crackers or chips or whatever. Right. So by going by, by just declaring, okay, I'm gluten free. I cannot eat any gluten. It literally took about 85 to 90 of that kind of food out of the. It's not even an option anymore.

Yeah, yeah.

And I gotta tell you, not having options is actually easier. That's the thing that no one talks about. It's. We all, we, we tend to think like, oh, I can't have limitations on my diet. That's. That's food shaming. Or that, that, that brings up all this bad, you know, history of like, food phobia or just even issues around anorexia or whatever it might be that you've come from. Right. And I get that that's different, but that's a different kind of like, phobia or food issue than just saying, you know what? I'm gonna do this for my health. Like, I'm gonna say I'm gluten free or sugar free or alcohol free, whatever it is.

Yeah.

And I'm going to label myself as that person. So then now it's no longer even a considerate. It's not even an issue if I go to a party, if I've declared I'm alcohol free. It's not even an issue. Like, I'm not pulled towards alcohol anymore because I don't drink alcohol. So I go to a party if anyone said, no, I'm good, I don't drink. And then you move on to something else. Right? Yeah, but, but having that limit, that restriction and limitation is actually a good thing. It's not a bad thing. It's only a bad thing if you tell yourself it's a bad thing.

Yeah.

I'm recommending you tell yourself it's a good thing and you live by it because you're living by it because it makes you healthier.

That's such a good point. I mean, that is, that is such a good point. So tell me where everybody can find you other than we have eplat.com, but where else? And also, I wanted to ask you before we go Is there anything else you're doing right now that. That other than creating your seasoning? Are you still. Do you still do any kind of chef cooking for other people or what are you doing now too?

Yeah, it's. It's always changing, but I. So, yeah, Pluck is my main business. My. My focus is on really growing that business and, and truly supporting people and getting organates. I believe so strongly that that's what we're lacking is that real food nutrition. You can find us on. On most socials from, you know, Instagram to Tick Tock to Twitter @eatpluck is our handle. My personal handle is Chef James Barry. And I do put different information on my personal one versus Pluck. It sometimes there's overlap. For the most part it's different. But I. I'm, yeah, mostly focusing on pluck. I sometimes do private chef. Like, I recently had reach out who needed my support in France and they flew me out to France and I did that. And I. And I mostly did that because it was financially, you know, they were paying me well. But also it was an adventure and I love adventures.

Yeah.

But I am cautionary from doing too many of those jobs because they take me away from my kids. And, you know, this time is definitely precious. I'm very much have learned that every. For every yes, there's a no. Right. And so I. I kind of now restrict what I'm willing to say no to. And I don't want to say no to the kids, you know, time with them or my wife. So I do that though, sometimes. And then I'm working on. I'm working on a new cookbook. And then we're actually at Pluck. I'm really excited to share that we are changing some of our offerings. So right now you'll see if you go to the site, there's bags. It's all bags. Like.

Yeah, I have the small. The small bags is what I have.

Yeah, that. So that's what it mostly is. And I was looking see if I. Oh, I have one right here. So this is. If you're visually watching. So this is what they look like.

Yeah.

But we are going to be moving to Shakers. So we're going to have Shakers soon. And then we're also going to have little single use packets, which I actually have an example of right here that you can then travel with.

I love that.

Yeah. Because. Because really, you know, I want to make sure, like, if you're doing this, that it's not like I never want anyone to treat Pluck like nutmeg, for example. Like, we're only using it once or twice a year. It's like, you only benefit like this is snake oil if you don't use it. You know, I mean, like, everything is anything that's healthy if you don't use it. Like, just because you bought it doesn't mean it's going to make you healthy. You got to use it to make it. And that goes for any kind of health modality. Right. And so. And the thing that you're going to get the most benefit from is the thing you do daily. Yeah, I'm a huge, huge proponent of that. You know, like, we can look at anything in life, anything. And we can, like, I can pick the most random thing, like intimacy. And if you're someone that struggles with intimacy, is hugging someone once a month gonna affect your intimacy? Not really. Right. It's. It's gonna be the small touches or the small intimate moments you have daily. That move, they don't have to even be hugs. They can just be small movements. But those small movements, if you do them daily, they will add up and you will no longer feel issues around intimacy. Right. And that goes for our health as well. Ex. If you're someone who struggles with exercise, small movements every day, going for that walk after you eat, that's a perfect place to start. It doesn't have to be a marathon start there. And what happens is exactly what we talked about earlier, which is your body starts to crave it, your body starts to want it, your body starts to regulate around it. And as your body gets to that place, it suddenly is not such a chore to do it. It's not hard.

Yeah. The thing I tell my clients is it's. It's creating the discipline to do it consistently every day. And then it becomes a regular rhythm because you've committed to it. And it's just like that full step. That's. That's what it becomes.

It really is. I mean, I know some people will call them baby movements, or you call them whatever you want, but it's just. I find it's gentler on your body. Your body's easy, it's easier to receive.

Yeah.

On so many levels. Right. Because a lot of times we put so much stress on ourselves. We're like, well, you know, you know, Carla told me I gotta get my exercise in, and I'm just so stressed out because like she said, I gotta do 90 minutes. It's like, well, you. Of course you didn't say that. But yeah, you know what? I'm saying, but like, but like, like, we put the stress on. Like, we've gotta fit this in. It's like, no, it doesn't have to be 90 minutes. It could just simply be a walk after you eat. Yeah, okay. Yeah, like, just do it, though. And you know, I love this quote, but it's like, it's not about one day. It's about day one. So don't be the person that's like, well, one day. Oh, I loved this podcast. And, oh, he's talking about organ meats. And I. Yeah, one day. I'll try that. One day. It's like, no, no, day one is tomorrow.

Yeah.

Like day one. Not one day. And that's what I want everyone to do for their health, is don't wait to start. Because if you'd wait, your humanness will pop in and you will never get to it. Because we're humans and we love our comfort zones.

Yeah. And if you're like me, when you listen to you and hear about Plug, then you get curious. You immediately go into the show notes and click on it, which is what I did and ordered. Because that. That's. That's me. And I don't want to forget about it. I want to. I want to. I want to do it. So when did the new the single and the Shakers come out?

This. The singles are what we're going to call, like travel boxes. Those should be out sooner.

Okay.

But we're. I'm hoping that they'll all be in place sometime in July, that the Shakers might be more like August or September. It's mostly because everything, you know, it's like anyone that is in business will know what I'm talking about. But everything takes. What did they say? They said takes twice as long and costs three times as much. That's what they say.

Yeah. Yeah. It's the same as renovating, waiting. Because I did that too.

Same thing. You're right.

And so is.

Are you.

Is it just available on your website or is it.

No, no, it's Amazon, Right. Yep. It's available on Amazon as well. And. And then you can go to our website and there's even a locations tab and you. It's possible. We don't. We're not at tons of places because we're not trying to be. But yeah, people come to us and when they do, we. We sell it to them and as wholesale. And so there are some clinics, there are some health stores in the US that have them, and even Canada, there's a couple. So you just go to our locations tab and you'll, you'll see what's there and maybe, maybe there's one near, near where you live.

Okay, well, I'm going to check that out because I haven't clicked on that.

Yeah, there's definitely a bunch in Texas too. It just depends on, on where, where they are for you. But yeah, so then you save on shipping if you do that, but Amazon's got it and that's a great one if you have prime, because then you're not paying extra shipping or anything. So.

Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, so when your new book comes out and whenever you do this, this course or whatever it is that I have in my brain that you should do, we'll have you back on and you can share all the things, but definitely your cookbook because that would be something I would be so excited about and interested in and I know my listeners would too.

Thank you so much. I so just appreciate the support. And you know, if enough listeners hear this, you know, of your audience and they're like, okay, I love that. And I would love him to talk about a, you know, specific topic. Like, please, you know, reach out to Carla, tell her what it is and we'll do it. We'll schedule that and we'll just talk about, you know, meal planning and we'll just talk about whatever you want. That whatever is going to help you.

Yeah.

Execute and, and do these things. Because there's so much we could talk about. I mean, like, like, like I can talk to you more about at another point. Like the things of, like when I would work with a client, like the first things I would learn, you know, from them so that I could figure out what their comfort foods are so then I can make the healthy food match their comfort food needs so then they didn't feel deprived. So that's a whole other conversation.

Yeah, yeah. And that's the thing. When I was making notes and things to talk to you about, there's so much I'm like, like I probably need like a six part series because there is. And that's why I say you're such a wealth of incredible knowledge and wisdom in this area that I, I just feel like encompasses so much that it's hard to squeeze it in. So I hope we at least hit, you know, some of the key things and that, that, yeah, we will definitely have you back. I mean, you are the number one first mail on here. So, you know, you've got a VIP entrance.

Thank you. And, and as I said, anyone Listening to this, I just. All the power to you. You know, everyone's journey is worthy of something. And, and like I said, yes, we talked a lot about organ meats, but wherever you are in your journey, it's valid and it's. It's legitimate. And you need to honor yourself for being on that journey, because I promise you, even the best people in the field, like, or I say best, but that's a judgment. I say just the big people in the field, not the best, but the big. Because you can be big, but not necessarily be the best. Right? So the. The people with the biggest audience in the field, they all came from somewhere. So if I. Even that person that's known as Carnivore now, well, they probably were vegan at one point or, you know, they probably had a process that brought them to Carnivore or brought them to Paleo or Keto or whatever it is. So everyone's got a journey and you just. I. I just hope you honor. Yours is my, my, my want for everyone listening.

Well, thank you. That's a beautiful way to end it. And just thank you so much. I enjoyed this conversation and just, I've learned so much along the way, too, and I know my listeners have, so I just appreciate your time and. And getting to know you. And after hearing you on other podcasts, I love that we were able to sit down and just share and. And get this out there for people that we know need it on their journey. So thank you.

Thank you and. And I'd like to say thank you for spreading the plucking words.

You're so welcome. Okay, well, we're gonna wrap up now, but thank you, everyone, for joining. Your age is not your cage, and don't forget to go on YouTube, subscribe and rate and review on the podcast. And just thank you for being here. I appreciate each and every one of you. So until next week, we'll see you later. All right, Bye. Bye.