69. Pluck Seasoning with James Barry

Welcome to another episode of the youe Longevity Blueprint podcast. Today my guest is James Berry. His 16 plus years in the culinary field started as a private chef. His inauguration into restaurant style cooking came later when he was a vegan vegetarian chef on the Van Warped Tour which traveled to 50 North American cities in 60 days. Upon returning to Los Angeles, James continued to private chef and he had the fortune of cooking for celebrities like Tom Cruise, the Mariska Haggerty, George Clooney, Gerard Butler, Sean Puffy Combs, Barbara Streisand and John Cusack. Not wanting to limit the audience of his healthy and tasty style of cooking, he started Wholesome to Go, a healthy, high quality food delivery company that served under his leadership in the Los Angeles area for eight years. Most recently, James launched his first functional food product, Pluck, which we're going to talk about today. An organ based all purpose seasoning. It's the first of its kind and it's an amazingly easy and delicious way for people to get organ meats into their diet. He also co authored the recipes in Margaret Floyd's book Eat Naked and co authored the follow up cookbook, the Naked Foods Cookbook. He most recently co authored the recipes in Dr. Alejandro Younger's book Clean Seven. You can follow James on Instagram and Facebook and get your nutrition in a pinch@eatcluckluck.com so welcome to the show, James.

Thank you so much for having me.

You have quite the story. So tell us more. So tell us what inspired you to become a chef.

Well, you know, it started when I was 7 and my mom, who is not a chef at all, I mean she, she's constantly amazed that she has a chef for a son. She taught me how to scramble an egg and I just, I don't know, there was something about it that I just, I just fell in love with it. But what's so funny is that. So I'm in junior high, I think it was around sixth grade. Whatever age you are, when you're in sixth grade, I think you're what, 11 or something like that? Sure, I don't even remember. But so I'm in sixth grade and they're offering culinary arts class, you know, cooking class. And I immediately gravitated to it and I loved it so much. And I was never like an A plus student. I was, you know, kind of a B student. I really loved more the social aspects of school than the scholarly and culinary class though. I soared and I loved it so much that my mom asked, had to go to the school and ask Them especially if they would allow me to take it twice. So I took it during the day as a normal class, but then they offered it after school, and I got to take it then as well. So I was unique in that way, and I just loved it. And I still Merrily Done is the teacher's name. I still remember her. I thanked her in my first cookbook. And I just. I loved it. And I think I loved it because cooking for me was an expression of love. And, you know, I am a. I have a caretaker in me. And I think I look at cooking as. This is how I can show you I love you or care for you. And, yeah, so it started at a very young age. But what's so funny is that here I am in sixth grade, and I'm like, oh, well, I can't become a chef because they have to work at nights and own restaurants. And I'm a family man. I'm like 12 years old, and I'm like, I'm a family man. You know, I don't know where that came from. But for some reason at that young age, I was convinced I cannot do this as a career. And so I just chose to do it as a hobby. And I just continued to learn as much as I could until 911 happened. And 911 happened. I was. At the time I was living in Los Angeles. I was an actor, and I was working very hard at that and writing and trying to produce plays and just trying to just get my creativity out there as an actor as much as possible. And 911 happened, and I just kind of audited my life. And I was like, you know, I. I love acting. I love it, but it doesn't feel like it's the end of the road. It doesn't feel like it's the thing I'm truly on this earth to do. And I was just looking at everything. I was like, well, I really want to make sure I'm doing things. The only things in my life are the things that have heart. And I'm like, well, acting. I like creativity, but it just. It's not it. And I was like, well, but I love cooking. I'm like, maybe I should go to culinary school. And I. No joke. I mean, it was at that point I then. I then started looking at his schools. I think a year I started raising money because it was really expensive. I didn't have a lot of money at the time. And so I. A year later, I was in culinary school in New York. I picked this school because I knew I wanted to Be a private chef. I didn't want to work at a restaurant. I knew I wanted to work one on one with people and should help them with their health. I was really intrigued with the idea of comfort foods that could be made healthy.

Love that.

Yeah. And so I came back from New York, and this is kind of fun. It was the first time in my life where things just kind of clicked, you know, Know, I've been putting 200% out in acting and maybe getting back 35%, but with cooking, I put out 100%. I got back 200%. I mean, people were coming to me, and I have no idea how. It was really magical.

Awesome. I love. I'm going to have to ask you later when you say you made comfort food healthy, I'm going to have to ask you for some recipes, share some secrets with us.

Well, I think, you know, Covid really shined a light on this, right?

Yeah.

Like, we can talk health day in and day out. I mean, all your listeners, you lay out wonderful blueprints of how people can get healthy. But when the stuff hit the fan, what happened? Alcohol sales went up. Everything that's addictive basically increased in sales. And that's because we are emotional, right. And a lot of times our emotions are dictating our choices. And it's sad to me that, you know, the alcohol sales went up, that desserts and sugar items increased in sales. And, like, I mean, I just remember seeing the bins. I live in Portland, Oregon, and I remember seeing the bins, the recycling bins, and they were, no joke, overflowing with alcohol bottles, just overflowing. And it wasn't just, like, a couple houses. It was like, all of them. And so what it showed me, or at least how I saw Covid, was, okay, so we can talk health all we want, but when it gets push comes to shove. Yeah, push comes to shove, we are going to go to what we know. And so that told me that the future of health is not necessarily in figuring out what the magic pill is. It is actually figuring out how we can take the tried and true health habits, you know, that already exists. Like taking nature's gifts already that are already there and somehow making it so that we don't have to establish new habits around it. Because if we have new habits, it's going to be more challenging to achieve. I think New Year's is a proof of that. Right. Because every New Year's, we make all these resolutions, but no joke, 80% of them are done by February. So they barely last a Month, sadly. Yeah. Right. So to me, if we can make health changes but not require a new habit, then we've got something. And that's kind of now my goal.

Well, I like that you help with the how. So we're going to have to talk about that first. I think as part of your story, I want to go back to some health challenges you have had. And so do you mind sharing those and maybe how cooking helped?

Yeah, absolutely. I think everyone in the social fields and the health fields has a story of how. And it usually starts with, I got sick or some kind of event happened that propels you into, okay, I need to get better. Oh, this is what worked. Now I want to share it with the world. And for me, I got a kidney stone, and I was just out of college. Oh, you had. Really? From pregnancy or.

No, right before I got pregnant, actually. I'll tell my story after years.

Okay. Okay. Because I want to hear yours. So I got a kidney stone right out of college, and I was 3,000 miles away from my family and home. I was at this. This. I was doing this summer program, and I just arrived there about two weeks after college and got a pain I'd never experienced before. And as you know, it's not as painful as probably having a child, I'm told, but it's probably the closest you can get.

It's bad.

Yeah, it was terrifying. Yeah, it was terrifying. And. And basically got to the hospital. They said, well, it's either an appendicitis or it's a kidney stone. And then, you know, I got my drugs to basically ease the pain. And then it passed, and we discovered it was a kidney stone. And the first thing I asked was to see it. When I saw it, they said, how did I get that? Like, what is that? And the doctor said, well, what have you been eating and drinking? And I was like, what? Like, what does that have to do with anything? He's like, well, tell me. I said, well, I was eating pizza every day and I was drinking root beer. He's like, well, were you drinking any water? I'm like, no. He's like, well, what you put in your body is going to affect it. And I was like, huh? I mean, I was like, you know, I was 19, and I really did not connect that what I ate resulted in my health, like, was going to have a direct correlation to my health. And from that day forward, I carry water around everywhere.

Yep.

And I. And that. That was truly the. The pinnacle of starting to rethink, like, oh, what I eat matters. In my body. Yeah. And it's really. I mean, you can attest this, I'm sure. Like, it's alarming how many people still don't connect those dots and how many doctors do not connect those dots. It's scary.

Most patients who come to see me have seen multiple other specialists, none of which have ever once asked what they're eating, including their gastroenterologists. So, yeah, it's very sad. My kidney stone health short story here for the listeners. But my kidney stone, I don't think happened because I wasn't drinking plenty of water. I think I was drinking lots of water, but I was not supplementing with K2. And I was taking a lot of D3. I think that helped precipitate it. And I was taking a lot of N acetylcysteine to help with fertility, actually. But you can actually make cysteine kidney stones. And long story short, I actually had surgery to remove my kidney stone, and I never want to have that happen ever again. But I also was on a rather high oxalate diet. I did a lot of smoothies, and I. Which I still am an advocate for in. In reason. I think everything needs to be done in moderation. I think I was eating way too many oxalates, so I needed to modify my diet. Diet a bit there, too. So that's the short end of my. My story. But it was extremely painful.

Were you putting.

Go ahead.

Were you putting the raw spinach in your smoothies and all that stuff?

Kale. Love kale and spinach. Yep, yep.

Yeah.

And eating salads almost every day.

I realized.

So. Yeah. So having the smoothies, having the salads every day, I was. Yeah. Yes. But back to your story. So obviously you had this epiphany where, hey, I actually can go to culinary school and I can work in this industry and not have to be working, you know, late hours. I can be a private chef. So I'm sure the listeners want to know what it was like being a private chef at the start. And I want to know if they eat healthy or not.

Yeah. It's funny, I kind of look at myself as a guinea pig because one of the first things I realized when I arrived. So, as you mentioned, I specialized initially in vegan vegetarian food. And I didn't necessarily do that because that was my diet. I did that because I wanted an edge. I knew that if I specialized in something, then I would set myself apart from other chefs.

Yeah.

And also I was exploring what is healthy. I was. I didn't have an answer to that. And you know, vegan vegetarianism, which is now what called plant based. Right. It's like they keep changing the terms, but the reality is back then that was seen as a healthier diet and it probably still is to many people. But I was really exploring like, I was like, hey, what, what is health like? What does it mean? What is true health? Because you're being, as you're, as you point out for your podcast, the trends are abundant, right? We're constantly being chattered about what is healthy but what is truly healthy. And I think that turned me into a bit of a guinea pig because I was needing to cook for clients that were into all the hottest trends. So when I first got out of school, it was the fat flesh book. That was the big one, Fat Flesh book. And so I had to quickly read that and understand how to cook for it because I was getting asked to cook fat flesh food and I was like, okay. But that's really. I think my most prevalent comment I can make about celebrities is that they are, they are passing amongst the community, they are passing around whatever the newest trend in. And sometimes it's a trend that hasn't even hit the mainstream market, that it's kind of an internal trend. I think that's how the, the, the, what's it called? The, that, that detox where you do lemon juice and maple syrup, you know.

Gallbladder flush sort of thing.

Well, but there was, there's a special term, a name for it and that actually started in some of those communities. But, but I, so I became a guinea pig basically. And I just started trying everything and anything just to understand it, but, but not just in a cerebral way. Like I needed to understand how to cook for it and make the food interesting and make it feel like my clients were not being deprived. So I became bit of an expert in that. And to this day, I mean, you know, if you have a, you know, MRT list that's, you know, crazy long, I can usually, in most cases, I can show you how to cook with it and not feel deprived, how to make it feel so that you're, you're getting all the foods that you, all the comfort from, the foods that you can eat that you would hope for.

So I'm mostly dairy free and I say that and that I had been gluten free for years and I had to go, I truly believe I had to go dairy free in order to conceive my first child. I think that dairy was contributing to my endometriosis whatnot. So I say I'm mostly dairy free and that over the holidays I had some dairy. I did have some pecan pie which had some, had some butter in it. But other than someone's birthday, I'm not consuming dairy. So I'm not vegan. I eat eggs. But for our listeners, like when you were cooking for those who were vegan, like, can you give us a couple tips or tricks or that you use some pearls that we may not be aware of that were popular for you to use?

Yeah, I mean, well, what's, you know, it's interesting about and I'm curious if you found this with butter. There are so many people I've worked with that are off dairy, but yet they can do butter. And it's, it's a constant, you know, debate really about it is can people that need to be off dairy still do butter due to the high fat content? I mean, there's just so many. But, but do you, do you find that even butter affects you?

Yeah. So dairy doesn't affect me per se. Like I don't have gastrointestinal symptoms, whatnot. But I do believe it was triggering inflammation in my uterus. Right. The endometriosis. So many of my patients for their conditions, regardless if they don't, if they don't feel symptomatic eating the butter, the dairy, I'm going to take them 100% off dairy for at least. I follow kind of what Terry Walls recommends also from Iowa, that 100% for 100 days, so at least three months. I do take patients entirely off all dairy, any casein anyway, like entirely off. And then I let them introduce, and they're certainly introducing things like butter first before they would ever get something like milk or have dairy in a baked state, at least before they would be.

And how stringent do you get around like ghee, for example, where the dairy.

Has been removed depends on how sick the person is. Usually I do say ghee's allowed butter heel.

I mean, let's be honest, we are, you know, I've been in this field for over 16 years. Right. And where we are now in the world, the number of options are incredible. Right. Like there's that dairy free substitute that my wife, because she's dairy free as well, that just loves. Is that, is it Miyagi? Miyago, Miyoko's. Miyoko's love that brand. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and that's a pretty clean butter, you know, I mean like for, for a dairy free butter. Because that's the thing I always look at is what is in the ingredients. And, and I, you know, you look back at back in the day when we were even younger, like margarine, for example, like that, that is a scary concept because what they were doing was they were putting flavoring in margarine to recreate the butter experience, right? But all the ingredients that were in that margin were really bad. I mean like, they were really, really bad for you. And I think you still see that in so many so called health foods now that like, like actually you see it a lot in the impossible burgers and all those kind of things is they're trying to sell you on this idea that this is better for you. But if you just read the ingredient list, it's scary. It's not. Yeah, yeah, it's huge. It's not recognizable. The question always, I always ask is, is this something found in nature? Is it not? And if it's not, does that mean my body's not going to be able to simulate it and understand it? And usually that answer is, it won't.

My husband and I talk about this a lot because he is not free of really any foods. He eats whatever he feels like, but he, he has problems with a lot of these alternatives because he feels like their ingredient list is two paragraphs long and has things that aren'. Nature. Whereas butter, like organic butter or ghee, he's saying this has got to be healthier than some of these alternatives. So you have to find the clean alternatives. I mean, you really do.

And we, I mean we live in an age where they exist, you know, I mean there's even, there is even like a non dairy. Most of the non dairy based ice creams, for example, are really not good. I mean, if you once again read the ingredient list, they really aren't good. However, I've recently seen some brands that when you read the list, there's like four ingredients, five ingredients, you're like, oh, finally someone's doing it. Like, and I can't even tell, I don't even remember the name of the brand. But if you just read the ingredients, you immediately can kind of dial in is this gonna be good for me or not? Or is this gonna be a good substitute for the real, you know, the full dairy one. But in terms of some tricks like, so here's one that it has nothing to do with dairy because I really do think there are some great non dairy options nowadays, right? I think Nut Paws, for example, is a good, good option. And she's a, that's a wonderful company in terms of their mission. And. But here's a, here's a tip that a lot of people don't realize. So a lot of times you're getting your MRT back and it says, you know, like, you can't do lemons, for example. And everyone's like, oh, what do you, you know, if I can't do lemons, sometimes you can't do limes. Well, sumac is a spice. It's a Mediterranean spice. And sumac is a. It's a, it's not a mixed spice. It's an actual spice. It's a seed spice that has a lemony taste to it. So this is one example of, like, if you can't do lemon. Yeah, it's a little hack of, like, just use sumac. And there's tons of stuff like that. Like, you know, and some of this stuff is now popularized. But I was doing this stuff a long time ago. Like the use of cauliflower for grains and for thickeners. Like, I make. When I make curry sauce, for example, I thicken it with cauliflower. So I add, I'm making the curry, and I use whole cauliflower florets, and I just let them simmer in the sauce and soften, and then I blend it and it just naturally thickens the sauce. So that's a good hack. If you can't use coconut, for example.

Yes. That's frustrating when that comes back on a patient's food sensitivity test. Can't have coconut. I know. That can be really frustrating. Speaking of cauliflower, I have another question for you. So we'll come back to our agenda here, but for a moment, we were gifted an air fryer from some popular now. Yes. And I love chopping up cauliflower and broccoli, tossing that in an oil. So I guess I would ask, what oil would you recommend to be used in the air fryer? And is the air fryer healthy? I mean, is that okay or what's. I haven't. I mean, the food tastes delicious, but is that something we should be using or what is that?

Well, it depends on what your definition. Yeah, it depends on what your definition of health is. So if you know. Because when people say that, they could be saying, well, is it healthy to fry food? Right. And of course it's not. It's not healthy to fry food. In any clean oil, it's still not healthy. Because, sure, just the act of frying the food, deep frying it, is going to make it unhealthy. It's going to change the Molecular qualities of the food. And so it's not going to be as healthier. Now that's the kind of cerebral terms. Right. But does fried food taste good for the soul and like, emotionally? Heck yeah. Right. People like, there's. There's nothing better than something like that, particularly if you grew up eating that. Right. So in that sense, a air fryer is miraculous because you're not having to deep fry it. So you're going to get. It's going to be healthier. Just in general, right now, the thing with like the pressure cookers and the deep fryers, I think ultimately what those. I think the technology is really great. I think it makes things that used to be a little bit more complicated and. Or unhealthy healthier. In the case of air fryers. But the question becomes like, well, I guess it's really a thing of preference and then of time, because sometimes people mistake and they think these things are going to make it faster to cook. It doesn't necessarily do that. Like if you were making rice in a pot, for example, versus, let's say a pressure cooker. Right. It takes 15 minutes for the pressure cooker to pressurize.

Right, right.

So that 15 minutes and then you.

Could have just cooked the rice.

Yeah, yeah. It's like. And then it takes 10 minutes for it to cook. So that's 25 minutes. And you could have easily done that in a pot. And then this. The same kind of similar concept you can add to air fryers is, well, are you now eating all of your food in the air fryer? Is it all that same texture? And does that mean it's unhealthy? Not necessarily. But you are like, what kind of oil are you using? Because you still have to use some oil in the air fryer. Right. So what kind of oil are you using, to your point? And I, technically, if I ever fry anything or even coat something to bake, I really stick to. I think it's about five oils or five fats. So I do lard, I do ghee, I do tallow, I do duck fat. Duck fat is amazing on potatoes. Amazing. Duck fat. It's like, it's almost like duck fat was meant to be used with potatoes. When you taste it, it's like so well together. But so duck fat and then coconut oil. That's really it.

Sure.

Any. Anything else. And I, you know, it's questionable. You know, vegetable oils, it's inflammation. I mean, and a lot of these oils are highly processed with chemicals you don't want in your body. So I used to try to keep it to those kind of solid at room temperature fats. And then the issue becomes, well, I don't know if you're always eating like that. You know, that, that's really kind of. That's where the debate is, right? Should. I mean, I think it's great to get saturated fat. I think it's, I'm very pro fat, but you can have too much fat. You know, it's like I, you know, when I'm like, during my kicks of trying to kind of lose weight, I mean, I eat. So like right now I'm doing the carnivore diet and I'm just kind of, yeah, I'm 24 days in or actually 25 today. And it's, it's just an experiment. I'm doing it for three months to try.

And are you checking labs before and after?

I should have. I know I didn't do it before. I wish I had, but I am going to do it during. And I have some labs from about a year ago that I could compare it to, but I didn't do it right before. But point is, even on a diet like this is so restricted to just animal products. I'm not eating anything else outside of it. And I still have to be mindful of fat. I have to be mindful of fat in terms of making sure I get enough, but also make sure I don't get too much because it can negatively affect your health. So I think that goes for any cooking method. And then lastly, you know, I think we never want to forget aesthetics when cooking. So flavor is key. Flavor is king. Right? You always want it to taste good. But aesthetics are important too. We can get tired of, like, I think anyone who grew up having boiled vegetables can attest to this. Like, it affects how they look at vegetables as an adult. Right? It affects, like, oh, I don't like Brussels sprouts. I hear that all the time. I don't like Brussels sprouts. Well, how, how are you? How were they cooked when you were a kid? Oh, they were boiled and it was lime green and it was disgusting. I said, well, have you tried them roasted? No. Well, maybe you'd like them. You know what I mean? Like, so sometimes when we fall into just this, the same aesthetic of the food, the same style of cooking, it can sometimes get boring. And I think it kind of puts food sometimes at a flat line.

Agree.

I like to mix it up. I just like to mix things so.

I can use my air fryer with the appropriate fat occasionally. Just not day.

Yeah, I think so. Unless you're, I mean, you know, unless you're on a kick where you're just like, you're loving it. I mean, I think it's really. We cannot underestimate the importance.

Not gonna lie. When we started using it, we used it like every day for a week, but then we got off.

Yeah, I think it's really important to not underestimate energy with food. The energy of the intention of when you're making it. But also like if you're loving something, there is plenty of data to show that actually you're digesting it better when there's, when you're, you're kind of feeling good about it or pos towards the, that what you're eating, it could be even something that's not good for you. But if you're eating it and your, your mind and your energy is, is clean about like, oh, this is, I can't wait to eat this. And it's positive, there is plenty of data that will show you that actually it, your body assimilates it differently than if you were sitting there, you know, tight and stressed out about it. Like, oh, I shouldn't be doing this and I'm hiding, you know, and like shame is filled, you know, with you eating. So there's lots of data around that and I, you know, what is that movie like Water for Chocolate? Like, I think where they talk about the energy you put into the food you make. I'm a full believer of that.

Love that. So let's go on to some common mistakes that you've seen in your years working as a chef. So what are some common mistakes that you, you've seen?

Yeah, I, so this is, this is going to be a tough one for people, but it's the number one thing I've seen and that's self assessment. I think particularly with Mr. Google and just the ability to have so much information at our fingertips. I constantly see people self assessing and thinking they know why they can't do something. Like, I know someone from my childhood that self assessed and so she hasn't eaten, I think eggs and a bunch of other stuff. And this has been now like 30 years. And I hear stuff like that and I'm like, huh? But you don't actually know why you're not eating this stuff? She said, no, I just, I just know I feel better. I'm like, okay, but did you actually heal anything in the process of removing it? And she has no clue because she never actually did the test. And that's One of the reasons why I love, you know, the work of practitioners that are not just removing things, but they're also focused on the healing. And, you know, I always try to tell the. The self assessors, I'm like, you know, most health protocols are three to six months. And you've been doing this for 30 years. Like, you, you could be limiting so much of your diet for really no reason. You don't even know. And once again, I just go back to life is short. Like, we.

If.

If you don't have to limit something, why should you? But if you have to, then let's figure out how to do it, you know?

Agreed.

So self assessment, I would say, is the number one thing. And then the second would be this idea that we have to be good at cooking. You know, I think there's this concept that because we need to eat, we expect that we're all supposed to love cooking and that we're supposed to be good at it and we're supposed to want to do it. And just in my time as a chef, it's just not true. Most people, for most people, majority of people, they do not enjoy cooking. It's fuel to eat, and they want to have nothing to it. But they put a lot of pressure on themselves. And I, I'll be the first person to say that, that there's no pressure needed. Like, a lot of times we think that we have to be good at it. We think that we need to be creative in the kitchen. But you really don't. Like. I mean, I look at. I don't look at things as recipes. I look at things as formulas. And so when I look at, when I think about what is for dinner tonight, I literally think of it as a formula. And it really has a few components. It has protein of your choice, it has vegetables of your choice, and then it has fat. And then sometimes it has a starch or something like that. Right. But that's it. And so everything else kind of is about the formula of, like, well, how do I want to put it all together? Do I want to just stir fry it? Do I want to roast it? But it's all. It's not necessarily about, like, the, the measurements of things. It's more just about making sure the plate kind of fits that profile of this formula. And I usually. I mean, right now I'm on the carnivore diet, so my plate is all animal, but usually my, my plate would look like, you know, 60, 70% vegetable, and then, you know, like 10, 15% protein and then, and then. Or maybe 20% protein and then. And then I guess another 10%, 5 to 10% of. Between the fat, the starch or something like that, if I'm even doing that. But it's usually mostly vegetables and I find that works really well. But now I'm exploring new ways of doing that. So, you know, who knows? It's always interesting to see what works. Yeah, those are two mistakes. I really. The pressure we put on ourselves and then also thinking we have to figure it out on our own and not going to someone that's a professional.

I fully admit I am not talented in the kitchen, but I can make a sheet pan of vegetables and put it in the oven. I can make my protein. So I can do what you're saying.

Yeah, well, you know, one of the best ways I've found that really moves the needle in terms of health is meal planning.

I. Yes, I agree.

And that's kind of part of what we're talking about here. So a lot of people think meal planning is so hard. And I'm like, well, no, it doesn't have to be. Like, you could simply just get a subscription to a culinary magazine, Bon appetit, whatever, and then you get that once a month and then just go through that and do the recipes in that. Let that be your meal plan. Or you could simply, you know, subscribe to any of the thousands of meal plans out there that are available either for free or at a very low price. But you don't have to put pressure on yourself to figure it out. But what I love about meal planning is that it really helps you stay on target in terms of what your health goals are because you create a, you know, you create a grocery list and you don't diverge from that. And then hopefully it also helps support, ease that there's no decision fatigue of like, oh, what are we going to eat tonight? Right. So you already know what you're going to eat. You've hopefully already prepared for it. And you've also managed your week so that maybe you did a slow cooking meal or pressure cooking meal on the day that you knew you were going to be really busy. You know, she started that in the morning, things like that. So you can really budget the time of your week based on how crazy it is with your meal planning. And then lastly, you can really, it saves you money in a sense. Like, you're not like stuck eating out all the time. You're not buying things that are going to go to waste. Like, so meal planning really supports lack of like you have less waste when you meal plan.

At least you're less likely to diverge, you know, and then give in and eat unhealthy, like eat out. I totally agree. My husband and I, on Sundays we meal prep, meal plan. Like that's what we do, decide what we're having for dinners. And then I usually make salads for the week or lunch at least at work. So just fewer oxalates now. But still I'm a meal prepping and I think that's very helpful. You have to set aside that time on your weekend or whenever that is for you. But that's, that's what we do.

So one thing we also do is we do leftover lunches. So we always cook more of our dinner than we need and we, and we use the next day's lunch is the leftovers and we just, we change it up. So let's just say dinner was roast chicken. Well, for lunch it might be as chicken salad or it might be a, you know, a tortilla, you know, like a siete foods tortilla wrapped with the chicken and vegetables. You know, I mean it's like you can, you can change it up. You don't have to feel like you're always eating the same thing. But I think creating less work in the kitchen is always going to be to everyone's advantage than creating more work.

Agreed. So a lot of my listeners are females and what would you tips would you have to them who are coming to see me. Right. As a patient and I'm recommending some diet changes and they go back home and their partner maybe is not on the same page.

Yeah, it's frustrating because that is definitely a theme I've seen. Now this is just of course my perspective. I can't speak for every male out there. I don't know every male, of course, but in my time, my 16 plus years, I have noticed that theme that a lot of the drivers of health in a family or in a couple is the female. And typically I can think of like handful. Like typically it's the, it's the male of that relationship or of that family that's kind of poo pooing the idea or resisting it. And it's frustrating to me because if anything, what's the other statistics? The other statistics are that men die earlier than women. So if anything we should be, we should be on board with our health just as much as a woman should be. Right. I mean there's really no good reason why we should be undermining an effort to get healthier from anyone. But I think in my observation that. I think a lot of times it is connected to a few things. It's connected to fear, you know, fear of change, fear of like, oh, what if what I am doing is negatively affect my health? So what's going to happen if I have to stop that? And so that could be something as simple as the enjoyment of going out for a beer for many men or something like that. Whatever it is, right, Whatever that ritual is that men have, whether it's connecting with other men, maybe connecting with their child, maybe it's even connecting with their spouse, right. That they might have to lose that way of connecting. And then the other way is sort of what I just mentioned, which is, I think in the cases I'm thinking of, the fathers were using these unhealthy tools, whether it's getting desserts or things like that, to connect with their kids. And when the idea of losing that maybe they didn't know how to relate to the kids. I don't know. But I. But I. But I have observed that a lot over the years and it's concerning to me. And what I always think about is. And in the few women I have counseled through this, I'm always trying to give the male perspective. Okay, first of all, the male is wrong. If the male in your life is saying that, I don't believe exactly what you and I said earlier. If they don't believe that food affects their health, they are wrong. And you just need to know that they are wrong. And I'm not telling you that you have to shame them around that, but you just need to know on a certain level, they are wrong. Food does affect our health. It's the first thing you should always look at and because of. And just having the confidence to know, okay, they're wrong. And it's not my job to make them know that they're wrong, but it is my job to take care of myself. And so how can you best do that? And I always try to kind of mirror back to women, their strength. Women. I truly believe this. Women are what make the world go round. Women are strong, innately strong. I believe that's why women have baby, that they have the constitution. They are, they are able to have babies because. Because whatever created us knew that women could handle it. And I think a lot of. I know that as a male, I typically look to the females in my life to help. Not just ground me, but kind of help tell me what is needed in a situation. And I think in many Ways a lot of women are sometimes made to believe that they don't have that power in a relationship. And so I'm just here to say that I think you do. And I think that you should get. If you need to kind of do really primal things to get back that power, then do it. And one of those primal things might be like, hold out. Don't give sex to your partner until they, you know, observe what you want them to do. Because many men are driven by sex, right? So it's very. We're very physical creatures, right? And, and so right away, if you want a man to change his ways, then stop giving him the stimulus that he's, that he's wanting, right? So give him, give him something different until you get what you need. But. And that's just a. That's just, you know, that's a very simplistic thing I'm saying. I know that that can be hard, but I'm more just trying to support women in knowing that you, not only are you not crazy, you are correct that food matters. And two, you have more power in the relationship than you realize. And so I am just, I am, I'm. I'm just trying to mirror back to you to explore the different power dynamics and how you can not make your. Not shame your partner, but kind of support them and saying, okay, you may not believe this, but give me two weeks. Just, just give us two weeks. Let's do this for two weeks and then we'll reevaluate, but commit to it for two weeks and let's see what happens. Because a lot can happen in two weeks. I mean, I mean, we do this thing. We used to do this thing called a sugar control detox. And it was 14 day sugar control detox. We would cut out anything that was actual sugar. We cut out alcohol. We cut out things that converted into sugar in the body quickly, like pastas and starches. And so you were mostly just eating protein, vegetables and fat. Right. But in 14 days, people not only lost weight, but they also changed their palate and they lost, I mean, health ailments that have been chronic disappeared in 14 days. I used to do this. I used to run this program in my meal delivery service in Los Angeles. And it's. People would say, this is miraculous. I'm like, no, it's not. It's just food. It's just, it's just food. But convince your partner, give me 14 days. And if things don't feel different, then we can reevaluate. But if they do, I'm going to ask you to then to re up another two days or two weeks, you know, I mean, but take it one step at a time with them because it's usually just based around fear. Fear. And they just need some support, they need some hand holding with that, whether they know it or not.

Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think women make the world go around. So thank you, thank you for giving a shout out to all the females. But you're right. And they're doing the grocery shopping usually for the family. And this is where kids come in. So what are some lessons learned when cooking for picky eating children?

Oh yeah. So I have two girls myself, but I've been doing this now for a while with other families and I found there's a few things that really move the needle. And one one is include the kids or the picky eater in the process as much as possible. So that means grocery shopping, that means the cooking, that means the tasting along the way. What does a bell pepper taste when it's not cooked? What does it taste like when it's cooked? What does it taste like when it's roasted? What does it taste like when it's fried? Change it up, let them explore it. Because a lot of times picky eating is really just. And I was a picky eater. Absolutely. And I still am to a certain degree. But it's usually based around, once again, fear. It's lack of control. So something's going on and I need to feel, you know, something that's going on in my life. I'm overwhelmed by it. So I need to get some kind of control. What can I control? I can control what goes in my mouth. And I've found that a lot of times when parents are having like a tumultuous relationship, how do the kids react? They react with picky eating. They're a lot of times connected. But so first off, connect them to what you're doing, let them participate, give them that control again. Give them the control of like here, why don't you pick the vegetable for tonight's dinner and you can pick from this area whatever you want. You know, give them choices that you're going to be okay with them making. You know, I'm saying, so set them up for success, not failure. That's one thing. The second thing is only bring into the home what you want them to eat. And I know that seems like very simple, but how many times as a practitioner, how many times in my career have I heard a parent say, I just don't understand why my kid is addicted to Cheerios. It's like, well, Cheerios buying them, right? Yeah, right. It's like Cheerios don't grow on trees. They're not picking them as flowers. It's like you're bringing them into the home. You're the one that introduced them or someone in your life did and you contributed to it by continuing to buy them. And so that's the first rule is like set the standard that you want. You are the, you are the one in control. So set the standard that you want. Don't bring it into your home. I know and I speak as someone who, if it's in my home, I will eat it like that. Like we have to know our limitations. I have learned that I do not have self control around most, mostly like ice creams and certain chips and certain foods. So I can either fight, I can either bring it to the home and then fight myself and beat myself up and like, oh, and struggle, you know, or I can just not bring it home and then I don't have to struggle, you know? I mean like choose the simplest path. Don't, don't choose the path that's hard and stressful and that's going to keep you in your head and keep you kind of in that pull, tug, pull, tug. Like the simplest path is don't bring it in your home. And then you could say, well, what about when I do want to eat something? Well, here's the tip to when you do want to eat something that's, that's not an everyday, you know, something that's a treat is you simply go out, you buy it no matter what size it is. It could be a single servant, could be a family size. Whatever it is, you buy it, you eat the amount you want and then you throw the rest away. You do not bring it home. And you can say, well, that's a waste of money. It's like, well, it was already a waste of money because the minute you're buying something that's not for your health, it is a waste of money. It's extraneous, it's not needed. You're not buying it to survive. You're buying it because it's an, you're addicted to whatever it gives you. You're, you know, it's a pleasure, it's a comfort thing, it's a pleasure point. So it's, it's already an unnecessary item. So don't bring it into the home. And then the third thing is give once again, give the kids the option. So this is a really cool Trick. Instead of like plating the meal for your family, what you do is you have like, you know, a separate table or an island in your kitchen and you put all the food there and you only like. Let's say you only don't cook multiple meals. That's. I guess that's another tip. But this is part of this. Don't cook three different proteins and one that's dino shaped for the kids and one that's, you know, for the adults. It's like one for everybody. But then when it comes to the vegetables, have something that you can always pull out. So for our home, it's cultured vegetables. We always have cultured vegetables in our refrigerant because they don't go bad. You can just kind of keep it in the back of the fridge and it doesn't matter if someone eats it every day, it will not go bad. That's just the nature of cultured vegetables. Right? But if you have it in there, what we do is every time we cook, we put whatever vegetable we did make, whether it's a salad, it could be chard, it could be broccoli, it doesn't matter. Whatever we made, we put that out in a bowl. And then we put us. We put the culture vegetables out and then we tell the kids, you choose. Give them the control. You pick what you want from this meal, but you have to choose one of those vegetables. You get to choose. And because we have this mainstay of the culture vegetable, it's very safe. It's like they know what it tastes like, they know what it looks like, they know what they're going to get from it. And so if the other vegetable seems unsafe to them or just kind of new and they just aren't feeling like they want to do that, they always have a safe, a safe zone. And it's really, it's always fascinating. Sometimes they go for the cultured veg option, and a lot of times they don't. But it's so interesting because the thing you think that they're. The times you think, oh, they're going to want this vegetable versus the cultured veg. They don't. They actually go for the culture. You know, I can never predict what they're going to do, but it's. I find, though, by giving them that option, they eat their food and by doing it that way, too, is by leaving it on the island and basically advising them to take the food themselves. You're not only giving them the power, but you're also encouraging them to not food Waste. You're basically saying only put on the plate what you're going to eat. Right. And that's one thing that as parents we all can relate to is that shaming of like you need to finish everything that's on your plate. But we're the ones that serve them in those circumstances. Right. We're pushing these foods. And so instead of like having a nice relaxing meal, you end up having a very stressful meal. But by letting the kid choose what they put on their plate, it's their portion sizes, but it's a win win for you. So they're choosing what portions and you've chosen the food options. Right. And as long as they're never getting away with anything, they're never like, oh, but they didn't have a vegetable. No. Because the deal in your house is they get you, they get to choose which one, but they have to choose one.

Right.

They're always eating food that you want them to. They get the power and then they have to finish the plate from the food that they ate. So they're being taught to, not that they chose to. So they're being taught to not waste food, to respect, you know, the process of food, from the growing to the buying to the, to the sourcing all, everything. And I just, I think it's a win win when you include children in those ways.

I love that at the time of this recording, I have an only 2 year old, but I'm kind of doing that right now. And then I'm offering him if he's not going to eat the vegetable that we prepared. We usually carrots, we just always have carrots in the fridge. I'm always saying, would you rather have carrots? Right. So I have another substitute that's still a vegetable. He gets to pick one. And I think all of your tips are going to be very helpful as he ages. So thank you very much.

Yeah. And you know, that kind of speaks to another thing which is palate. I think, as you'll find you've probably already seen is any parent with a kid will recognize that one week the kid only wants green things, the next week they only want white things. Another week they only want red things. One, one week they love carrots, the next week they don't want to have anything to do with them. And so I think palates are, I look at palates, it's like breathing creatures, you know, like that, that we have to never assume that you, because you didn't like something one week that you're not or at one age that you're not going to like it ever again. And that. So as a parent, to constantly be putting things in front of kids, even when you think that they might. They didn't like it last month, why would I do it again? Like, don't just keep, don't ever assume. Just keep putting stuff in front. And then also kind of what we talked about earlier, which is try different things. Like, so let's say right now you might be putting out raw carrots. I don't. Well, I guess if they're two, maybe you're cooking them slightly, I don't know. But try doing it different ways. Like, so sometimes grate the carrot, sometimes cook it, sometimes roast it. Because caramelizing carrots is going to bring out the sweetness in them, right? Yeah, there's lots. Sometimes you should. You could even coat it with some kind of cheese or something, you know, like. Or fat, like, because there's, you know, if you stick to kind of that dry texture, then the kids always going to expect things to look like that. Like, how many kids love sauces, right? But my kids love sauces because from day one, everything has had a sauce. So it's all what we, you know, it's all what we acclimated them to. We are driving the truck, we are the ones driving it. And never forget that you're the one in the driver's seat. So it never has to be what they think they want. You can dictate it, but just give them choice within it.

Yeah, I love that. I've always been a dipper. I love sauces. But again, I fully admitted to not being highly talented in the kitchen. So when it comes to even sauces or seasonings, I feel like that's my weakness and that's part of what you've created. You're the inventor of seasoning. So tell us what inspired you to create that seasoning and tell us what it's all about. We want to know how we can use it, of course, as well. So. Yeah, so tell us.

Thank you. So, I mean, organs are, to me, nature's superfood animal organs. I just feel like nature delivered this amazing source of nutrients. I mean, organs. Like, if I just focus on bovine organs, cow organs, vitamin A, B, C, D, E and K. Right? All the vitamins, essential minerals, iron, calcium, copper, magnesium, phosphorus, potassium, zinc. I mean, everything. Like, if you're trying to get pregnant, it's all in the organs, you know, I mean, it's like you need a. You need a prenatal pill. Just eat organs. It's all there. And technically we used to, as a society. We used to, our great grandparents did, in generations before that, they ate organs. But for whatever reason, we've lost the taste for them, We've lost the cooking knowledge. And so nature's superfood is getting lost on us. And it's sad to me because, you know, 35% of the world is nutrient deficient. I mean, that's only the people they measured, right? And yet we know in the US it's not because it's a food problem, it's not because we're not getting enough calories, because we have an obesity issue in the U.S. right? So to me, it's like quality. It's all about quality. So, so here's nature providing you with this incredibly nutrient dense product. And what's also super cool about it is that organs, the nutrient in organs, it's a whole food, it's a real food. And so our bodies recognize it and can assimilate the vitamins and minerals of it versus like fortified, you know, packaged foods in the store. Most of those vitamins get washed down, you know, washed out of our body or not utilized because our bodies don't know what to do with them because they're not whole, they're not, they're synthetic, you know, so to me, that was, that's the gift, nature's giving. But the issue is like, people aren't eating it. And that's when I, I started to really think about, well, how can I get nutrients in my kids without it, be in a fight, you know, how can I get things, how can I help people with their health where they don't have to adopt a new habit like we talked about earlier. And I was looking at the way collagen was being used in so many things, and I was already experimenting with like collagen and nut butters and things like that. And then it hit me like, well, wait, nature's superfood is not even being used. And I feel like there's got to be a way to incorporate that. Oh, well, freeze drying organs nowadays, which is something that's prevalently done in the supplement industry. Like, well, that's all shelf stable. So they're freeze drying and powder and organs and it's shelf stable. So all I need to do is offset, I need to complement or offset the flavor that people make the icky face with when they eat them. I got to somehow compliment and offset that flavor. Well, when I make pates, what I use is, I use like onion, I caramelize Onions and I use different spices and herbs. I was like, well, what if I did that with some spices? And so that's how pluck was created is I thought, well, I want to get this nutrient density in people's diets, but I also want to offset the taste. And so I do that with the complimentary herbs and spices. And so basically. And I know you haven't tried pluck yet, but when, when I get you sample, I think you'll find this to be true. The feedback we get is it A, does not taste like organ meat and B, it just, it's easy. Like you don't have to know how to cook. You just, you can cook, you can put it in the recipe or you can just finish the product with it just like you would salt like you have. And it goes with anything like popcorn, eggs, fish, chicken. Doesn't matter that it's, it's cow organs. Like it just goes with everything. And it's. And I didn't know that when I created it. I mean I'm constantly discovering this, but it really does, it goes with everything. And so it's kind of a win win. It's easy to use and you're basically adding nutrients to everything you put it on nutrients that you weren't getting before.

So it's basically freeze dried organ meats from cow you're saying, right?

Yeah.

But there are also seasonings in there to make it taste better.

Yeah. So organs have this umami. Are you familiar with umami? Yeah. So for those that are not familiar. So umami is what they call the fifth flavor, the fifth taste. So we have sweet, sour, bitter and, and salty. Right. So umami is the fifth. And what umami does, they're all unique. But what umami does is actually make all the other flavors taste better. It heightens everything. And the way you see that play out in packaged foods in the grocery store is that you'll see a lot of packaged foods have natural flavors added to them. And usually what's hiding in those natural flavors is msg. And MSG is the industry's synthetic way of adding umami to the, to whatever you know, the package good to make it taste, you know, better. But technically it's not good for you in that form. But organ meats, it's natural, it's totally natural part of the organ meat. So, so what pluck tastes like is, is it has an umami focus. So when you put it on something and umami, the best way to describe umami is savory. It's got A savory taste to it. And I put like powder, I put a smoked paprika in there too. So it's got a little bit of a smoky thing but it's kind of an all purpose seasoning. So it doesn't tast different from most all purpose seasonings. But I've included five organs in it. I've included liver, kidney, heart, spleen and pancreas. And so you're not just getting one organ, you're getting five. And there's this, there's this concept of like supports like and that's why I did all five. And the idea is it's an ancestral kind of Native American thought but it's, it's if I eat, you know, animal organs then they're going to support my own organs and if I'm eating those five then I'm going to be supporting the fat, those five organs in me. And each organ has its own identity. You know, like, like there's certain heme, iron and liver is not found in other things. You know, there's the enzymes in the pancreas that aren't found in the other organs. So they each contribute in a way that's going to give you even more of a full fledged, you know, nutritional profile from them. So that's why I'm trying to get as many. Much variety. It's all about variety in my, my opinion.

Are there any contraindications? Like is there garlic in your seasoning? If someone has.

It's not. Yeah, mine's not, it's not aip but we're actually like. We are and I'm working on an AAP version right now actually. I'm like literally weeks away from debuting it. Um, Exciting. Yeah. So we, our goal is to make it more accessible for, for people that are, have certain sensitivities. I just kind of wanted to launch though with a. Yeah. You know with a kind of a general standard since, since the. Sadly, I mean and I, and I don't mean to offend anyone but like you know, the AIP community, while I completely support and respect them, when you're trying to sell a product that's it's a small community and I mean you have to.

That's the autoimmune Paleo for those listening community.

Yeah. And a lot of the, you know, that's. Now they can do garlic but they can't do seeds. But, but just to your point like that I will be creating product that can serve a lot of different palates and a lot of different health needs.

Well yeah, very creative idea. Yeah, you got to start somewhere. Yeah, yeah. So how can it be used? Is there. Does it contain salt at all or is it just seasoning?

Yeah, so it has salt. So we, we advise you just to use it like you would salt and pepper. I mean, in many cases, you don't even need to add more salt. Sometimes I do because I didn't. I purposely didn't add too much salt because I just. I. Yeah, I was aware that everyone's kind of got their own palate around salt, you know, depending on your adrenals and whatnot. So you're going to have different needs around salt. So I didn't want to do it too salty. So it doesn't have as much salt as most products, but. But it has enough where you could get by with just using pluck. We've heard from families that kids love it. Like, I haven't met a kid yet that doesn't, to be honest with you. It's really intriguing. I think kids are really in tune with their bodies, and I think when they taste it, because it does taste good, that they immediately know what their body needs. And I think they're getting nutrients they previously weren't. So I think there's kind of this quality of wanting more of it. Like, I just. I hear kids, like, actually sticking their fingers into the jar and eating it. Things like that. My kids are like that.

Yeah. Very exciting. Well, I have to ask you, you have obviously quite the experience, and you've given us several tips today, and I'm excited to use your plucked seasoning. But tell me, what would your top longevity tip be? Everything you've shared with us or maybe something you haven't. What's your top longevity tip?

Yeah, you would think it would be. You would think it would be like organ meats. Just eat organ meats. And I think that I could easily say that. But if I. If I really reflect on what. What has been the thing that moves the needle the most for me personally and what I've experienced in my journey on this planet, I would have to say it's sleep. And I say that as a notorious night owl. You know, I think if you had talked to me two years ago, I would have, you know, we would have had this conversation at, like, 11 at night, because I would be up. Um, but now I go to bed, like, you know, 8:39.

Me too.

And it's amazing. It's amazing how different life looks when you get sleep. And I say that even as a parent, like, we. We have, you Know our kids are 7 and 4 or, sorry, 8 and 4. And I don't. Out of all the kids, you know, families we know and where we live, I think our kids go to bed the earliest to this day, even our 8 year old. And I'm just like, yeah, because they're better people when they do. And I noticed that in myself. So I just believe a good night's sleep, it helps. Here's why it's so important for longevity, in my opinion. So one of the biggest issues we have with health is the choices we make, right? Particularly around food. When I get a good night's sleep, I make better food choices. It's just a fact. So if it starts on the simplest, most base level around, health is what we choose to put in our mouth. And if I make better choices when I get sleep, then that's got to be the first marker for me because every choice I make is going to be based on how well I slept. And I think that's so easy in our lives, particularly when there's so many factors against us. You know, where we have these big food companies that are creating products that actually like feed our addictions and, or play with our, with our, like our brain, you know, and our addictive qualities, like they're actually manipulating us and make, manipulating our flavors. I think that when we have so many things against us, we really have to dig into the things we do have power over and we have our choice. We do. You know, no one is force feeding you to eat, whatever it is you're eating and shaming yourself for eating. No one's doing that. No one is doing that to you. You are choosing to do it. So best way is to use your own skills around making the best choices you can make. And that's sleep for me.

Most, I feel like literally most meaning a third of all of my guests say sleep, including the interview I did earlier today. He also said sleep. So you're not alone there. Tell us, I know you have a special promotion for our listeners to try your seasoning. So tell us about that.

Yes. Yeah. So the site is Eat Pluck E A T P l u c k.com and we have created a special 10% discount for your listeners. It's Dr. Gray 10 and I'll let you kind of share more about. I don't know, it sounds like your listeners know the spelling and everything, but you can order. We sell on our site, we sell pluck in pouches and then we sell it in tins. And we actually chose that because we really wanted to kind of not just be about helping people with their health but also focusing on the planet. And I didn't see plastic containers as an option and so that meant glass. But to me, glass is heavy and it potentially would break so meaning that I would have to put more shipping material around the glass to protect it. So we're now using these pouches and what it means is we don't have to use any. We don't literally don't have any protectant like any, any superfluous like protectant in the bag because the pouches is. Can't break and, and it's its own protectant and then it's lighter so there's less fossil fuels to ship it to us and for us to ship it to you. So I felt like it was a win win for right now.

Sounds like it exciting. So I can't wait to try your seasoning. So to the listeners, I will post the link. You need to use a special link in the show notes to get the 10% off. Again, the code is Dr. Gray. D r g r a y 10 for that 10% off. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show today. This was very interesting. I'm sure my husband's going to enjoy this episode a lot. So thank you for your passion and really helping our listeners learn that it is easy, it can be easy to cook and eat well. And again, I look forward to trying your amazing seasoning.

Thank you so much for having me. Have a great rest of your day.

You too.