Autism Expert Shares the Foods That Changed Everything | Julie Matthews

If there is anything going on in our environment, with our food, anything, it usually shows up in our kids first. That's why I'm really excited to share my next guest, Julie Matthews, because she specializes in autism, ADHD, and other neurodevelopmental disorders. She's been working with thousands of families and has found food and nutrition really does have a huge lasting effect. She is a certified nutrition consultant and published researcher specializing in personalized nutrition for complex neurological She received her master's degree in medical nutrition with distinction from Arizona State University, and she's co-author of 2 research studies demonstrating the efficacy of nutrition and therapeutic diet intervention for autism spectrum disorder. And she has a brand new book, The Personalized Autism Nutrition Plan. Welcome back to Everyday Ancestral. I'm your host, James Barry. Please welcome Julie Matthews. Julie, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you.

Thank you for having me.

Yeah. Well, I'm really curious. You have chosen to focus on autism, ADHD, really kids. And I would love to kind of get some background. Why, why kids? I know they're the canary in the coal mine, but is there a specific story as to why you, you focused on autism and ADHD?

Well, it's a bit, maybe a bit of a strange story, different than what most people would expect. Most people would think that maybe I had a child at the time or child on the spectrum or something. I did not. I didn't even have kids at the time. Uh, I was, um, you know, long story short, I was in nutrition school and I was out running around this park and there was this kids' fair outside and it was filled with donuts and pizza. And I thought, this has to have something to do with all the ADHD in the world today. And that was pretty much the start of the whole thing. So my first year in school, I studied ADHD. And when I went to study ADHD, the man that I met Recovered his kids from autism and he just wanted to talk about autism the whole time. So I went, you know, I did my paper on ADHD, but the next year I, you know, was talking to my teacher and said, you know, should I do autism this year as my final paper? And so she encouraged that. So that was it. I was kind of random, you know, he was saying, I mean, the connection started out random, uh, and the thought was a bit random, but once I found out there was so much you could do that the children we're talking about are not, you know, children with a little neurodiversity. These are usually kids that are very sick, um, sometimes in diapers till they're teenagers or beyond, uh, banging their head, uh, not able to talk. You know, it might be severe autism, not just mild, uh, you know, more level 1 type autism. So when I found out that there was a lot of suffering going on and that there were things that you can do and that nobody was talking about it because this was 20-some years ago, uh, I just felt driven and, you know, to the cause really. Yeah.

That's, I mean, that's it. That is inspiring. You're kind of really, it almost sounds like it was like you were at the right place at the right time. Really? Right.

Yes.

Um, I find autism, ADHD, I find a lot of these kind of, uh, names that we give to kids nowadays. One of the things that comes up is, well, when I was younger, I didn't see anyone that had a lot of this. So, so is that true in your opinion? Like, is it, is it true that it didn't exist to the level it does now, or is it just that we didn't diagnose it that way then?

There are some studies on this topic because it is a big question that people have. Back in the, you know, '70s, the rates were about 1 in 10,000. So if you had, you know, a special needs classroom, you might have a person with autism, but that's not how it is today. So that, that's kind of the first bit of kind of argument on the subject is just where, where, where are all the adults and their 40s and 50s with autism right now if it was as prevalent as it was. But there's actually real science showing that they looked at this and they said that, you know, it cannot be found to be diagnostics alone. They said, you know, even a more moderate, conservative study found that maybe about 50% or so, maybe we could attribute to that, but there's something else going on where, you know, 50, 60% has— is something else. And you can also think that, you know, there's no, Genetic epidemics. So there's something going on.

And so you mentioned you've now been in this 20 years. So what's your answer to what is going on?

I think it's a combination of genetic predisposition and environmental assaults. That's what I think it is. And there, there are a lot more environmental assaults we've had in the last 50 years with all the chemicals. And if you have a genetic— we'll just take chemicals as one of them. If you have maybe poorer detoxification, you're more likely to be injured by those. And if there's more toxins, that's going to be a factor, but also toxins can actually affect your epigenetics or how our genes express the ability to detoxify. And so sometimes toxins can also affect our genes. So we Have just that one thing alone can have a, you know, really a cyclical effect. And so I think that is one of the main things that's going on.

Hey YouTube fam, 80% of you watching aren't subscribed. If you're digging these episodes and haven't hit that button yet, now's the time. Every sub helps us grow, land bigger guests, and keep the good stuff coming. So hit subscribe and stay curious. When you talk about toxins, you're talking about in the air. So environmental, you're talking about in our food. What does it all encompass? You know?

Yes. All, all of them. You know, do we use more pesticides in our home? Do we use more on our food? Do we have, you know, we have things like glyphosate now that disrupt the microbiome. We know the microbiome is a big area of Difference and challenge and concern in people with autism. So just that alone, antibiotics, again, they're wonderful things. We need them for life-saving, but they do affect our microbiome. And so I actually went off a little bit. I went into the microbiome conversation. We just stick with the toxin topic. Yes, toxins in our food, food additives, chemicals in our environment, all of these types of things can affect the brain. Some of them are neurotoxins. They kill bugs by damaging the nervous system. So, I think that's a factor. And so, some of them affect the brain directly. Some of them affect the mitochondria. You know, some of them affect all sorts of different systems, and then that can affect the brain.

Yeah. I mean, it is something, and obviously parents are getting more and more attuned towards that. Okay. We need to, rethink, you know, the choices we're making in our lifestyles and in the food we put in our bodies. But I think people are also getting very stymied by all the different influencers, all the different voices that are saying, well, do this or do that. And everyone kind of is pointing in slightly different directions, sometimes grand directions, like completely opposite from each other. So You've worked with thousands of families. I mean, can you share one transformation story that has, you know, given you goosebumps in terms of what changed and how it showed up?

Yes, probably one of my favorite stories is the story that if people have my book in the introduction and then the conclusion is the individual I'm talking about. And he was a client of mine when he was about 5. He's now 21. He had pretty significant autism, um, tantrums, uh, some challenges with language, uh, challenges sleeping. Uh, you know, it was challenging for him, you know, in school and, and all of that. And he, uh, his mom worked on diet. As well as nutrition for many years, kind of step by step, changing different things, a gluten-free diet, go in casein-free diet, and then, you know, evolving into different diets and doing testing and doing supplements and things. And today he is, uh, graduated from high school. He's an Eagle Scout. He's in college. He wants to be a writer. He won an award for writing at his college. last, last year. So he is really doing amazingly well. And in the conclusion, he talks in his own words about how important diet has been for him and really how helpful. And so I think that's just one, because it's nice to hear from the person themselves and their journey and what it felt like and how important the diet piece was. So that's probably one of my favorite stories.

Well, so many cultures, um, You know, if you think about it, they relied on a lot of the foods I've talked about in previous episodes, you know, these traditional ancestral foods like organ meats and fermented vegetables. But what, 'cause that's ultimately, I think what people want to know is like, okay, so what foods did support him or what, what ancestral foods are you finding, you know, are the most supportive for these kids with autism and ADHD?

Well, I think, you know, just starting even with just a whole foods diet, right? So artificial additives, colors, flavors, we know in the research That they create significant hyperactivity and behavioral challenges. So, that's just one. Start with whole foods and you're all going to be avoiding entire categories of MSG. We know glutamate causes problems in the brain. It's excitatory. So, just that alone is a good start. And then, I really do like things like liver. So, in my book, one of the recipes is burgers with liver. And just, you know, getting a little bit in, in a way that's tasty and enjoyable. You know, it's, it's fairly hidden, but it really enhances the flavor of the burger. It's actually quite good. So liver is one of my favorites for ancestral foods. Um, you know, getting good quality grass-fed, more similar to how maybe, I mean, obviously they are, um, how, you know, there's husbandry involved. You know, it's like it wasn't necessarily wild as our true ancestors. But getting close to that kind of wild-caught fish, grass-fed meat, those kinds of things. And then usually most people I work with don't do wheat, gluten, or dairy. So, you know, more of that, you know, staying away from those farmed grains, but particularly things like wheat. And dairy.

So are, are there certain, like if you were working with a parent these days, you know, starting to work with somebody, is there just, is there just like 1 to 3 foods that you're just like, look, if you want to work with me, we, you have to be willing to cut these out. Is there, 'cause I know you're very into bio-individuality, but is there kind of like, here are the foods I believe everyone should not be eating?

Ooh, ooh, that's a good one. Well, beyond, I mean, I think a big one are things like sugar, but, you know, honestly, that's a little bit of maybe even more difficult than something like gluten, uh, because gluten, we can just take it out. With sugar, you know, it's a little trick. I mean, I want them to reduce sugar as much as possible, but the things that absolutely zero of, um, I mean, like, again, it'd be wonderful if there was, you know, zero added sugar, but I, you know, I would say usually, you know, it's so hard. I mean, I would, I, it depends how I answer the question. If I answer it from one side, it's no artificial colors, flavors, preservatives, all of those additives. Um, you know, no, you know, ideally be no refined foods, no refined sugar, no refined flour, things like that. However, um, on the other side, I'd say No gluten, no dairy, you know? Um, so I think for most of our—

At least kind of at first, right? Like, is it almost like let's eliminate these things at first and see how they're moving the needle or not moving the needle for your child?

Exactly. That's why it's a little hard for me to answer the question. Um, in my, you know, when you mentioned that it is, I have a 12-step approach and the first one is remove the artificial But then second is add the good stuff. And then we don't get to, you know, like avoid gluten and casein until we get to like step 5. But I do think it's one of the most often valuable dietary trials. So that's why I guess it took me a little while to kind of answer that question. It, it does depend on the person. However, I do find that those are some of the things that are either generally not good for our health as humans in general, or particularly problematic for people with autism.

It sounds like nutrition for you is kind of the number one marker to look at with kids that are autistic or have ADHD or any, you know, other neurodevelopmental disorders, right? So why do you think Why do you think it's the last thing that conventional medicine is looking at?

Oh, that's a, that, that's a hard one because I don't necessarily know why it is so challenging. You know, it's not the first thing they think of. For me, if we can work on, it's not that those other things aren't valuable. I always recommend people work with a great integrative medicine physician, the thing for me is that, you know, if we can work on some of the, what I call the low-hanging fruit, if we can get improved hyperactivity, irritability, sleep, aggression with removing foods that are bothering them and adding good foods, then maybe they, their, their doctor can say, oh, okay, we still have some issues in this area. Let's look at this medical thing or that thing, or while they're waiting to get in with their pediatrician. I'm not even saying that the doctor needs to be second, but sometimes it highlights and brings to the forefront the things that really need maybe a more significant approach. So I had a client that had severe aggression and, you know, if you were thinking that, wow, I might have to get them Some strong medication, or I might have to put them in institution, but diet fixed the problem. Most parents are going to pick that approach first. And so trying to see if you can address certain things with diet, I think is a great way to go. So that's how I feel about it. For— I think it's just the school of thought that you're trained in. And I, and I, and I give a lot of credit To doctors because they do very important, life-saving, amazing things. But just as if you— I actually did some research on this for my book and they only do get a couple hours of nutrition training in med school. And that's just a fact. And they have other important, you know, life-saving things that they are Spending their time on. I wish they spent more time on it. It's interesting. They learn all the systems of the body, exactly how the biochemistry of the brain works and the liver works, but they don't really say, well, these are the nutrients we have to take into the body to create that glutathione or to do whatever it is that we need to do. And so that, I feel like that's an odd disconnect for me. I wish there was a little bit more of that.

Yeah, absolutely. Do you, I mean, a lot of people, because really what we're talking about is, okay, so doctors have their place, but then clearly someone who focuses on the nutrition also has their place and maybe they are separate roles, but maybe what needs to change is that we have to see them as separate roles. A lot of people see their doctor as being the catch-all for everything and maybe they're not. Right. In a sense. So what, for the person that is like, okay, if they have a child that's exhibiting ADHD, that's exhibiting autism, what do you think are the first steps someone should be taking? And if they are to, let's say, focus on food, are they going to a dietitian? Are they, if they are going to a nutritionist, what, what kind of nutrition, like what are they looking for in those first steps as they reach outside of their own family?

Well, I think you have a good, I mean, you know, I do say there's clearly a role for nutritionists and dietitians in the world. Um, I, I like that. I like that, that, you know, a doctor doesn't have an hour and a half to necessarily go through every food. And so there's absolutely a role for, uh, people that specialize in nutrition. The thing is that most people go to their doctor as their first step, which again is great, important, wonderful. Uh, that's where I feel like if the first line, the doctors had a little more knowledge, education in the power of nutrition, they might more readily recommend to people that could really be a great resource, somebody in the nutrition field to help them. So that's what I would say. And then I would say if first steps for people, um, well, I think it does depend on their resources. I mean, I do have families in 146 countries that are part of our community. And so, you know, people have vastly different resources and, uh, in, you know, in their community and different things like that. So for some people it might be going online and getting support from other families. Learning what they did, uh, figuring out, you know, their parents can be a wealth of information in terms of what could be some first steps. Why would I look at a gluten-free and dairy-free diet? How can I find products in my area that are free of the chemicals and dyes and things like that? So parents can be a great first step. Uh, also talking to them about some good practitioners in their area that are well-versed in nutrition. Maybe there's a good nutritionist or RD or somebody in their area that is knowledgeable or find somebody online that's knowledgeable. And then that way they can get more personalized support.

Well, is there anything though that you've experienced or you've learned in your 20 years that really kind of completely changed the way you even feed yourself? Uh, like Like, 'cause obviously you went down this path. You, you mentioned you got kind of, you, you, you focused on autism, you focused on the kids, but during, I have to imagine that during that research, during writing these books, that, that you may have actually learned something that may have been surprising, first of all. And then 2, that you actually maybe changed how you even treated your own life.

Definitely. What's, what's interesting is I must have studied this for many years before I realized I have some of the similar underlying factors that they, that kids with autism do. Now, I'm not claiming by any means I'm on the autism spectrum, but what's interesting is that certain things like methylation, they can affect people and they can create autism or ADHD or anxiety or depression or heart disease or cancer. And so. Sometimes even in a family, the child might have autism, but the sibling might have anxiety and the mother might have a digestive issue and the father might have an autoimmune issue. It's all the same underlying or pretty, very similar underlying genetics and even environment, but it's manifested differently. So, I learned a lot about myself in terms of some of my underlying factors and some of the nutrients that Could be helpful to me. You know, things like methylation. Also, I think one of the things I learned with working with lots of families is, you know, there isn't one diet that works for everyone. There isn't even one diet that works for autism, which is why I talk about so many different diets. And I think that's one of the things I applied in my own life. So, and one of the things I think is an important point, let's say whether it's in the book or Just with practitioners I train or whatever is evolving the diet over time. And the diet is not static all the time. Like the first family I told you about, that first boy, he now young man, he did a number of different diets over time. I could say probably 5 different diets that I can think of over time and evolving it. And it still evolves. And I would say that's one of the things I learned in my own life is that, oh, we went to a third world country. We got a parasite. Okay. I need a different kind of diet for my gut right now. Okay. You know, okay. We're dealing with this challenge in our family now. Okay. We're noticing a reaction to these types of foods, but my goal isn't to remain on that diet forever unless, unless it's, you know, somebody has celiac disease or something and they just can't do something forever like gluten. But usually I like to think of the diets as kind of healing diets or removing the things that are causing inflammation, but then working on healing those underlying systems that are affected. So I try to think of diets used more that way. So I'd say that's one thing or a couple things that I have learned that I apply in my own family.

So you haven't found necessarily one diet that supports, you know, the different levels of, let's say, autism, like. Oh, well, if it's mild, then this diet works. If it's extreme, this diet— there's literally no through line for you?

No, I would say there isn't. I would say that there are maybe through lines. So for example, in a study that we published about a year ago, we looked at 13 different therapeutic diets for autism. And not only did we find that they were significantly Better in terms of overall general, like an overall benefit to the individuals compared to things like psychiatric and seizure medications and even actually nutritional supplements. But, and we also found that they were significantly less likely to create adverse effects. So, um, In inside of that study though, if we dig down further, we looked at 24 different symptom improvements and different diets helped different symptoms more than others. So certain ones were better at improving certain symptoms. So classic example is seizures. We've known for decades the ketogenic diet is a great diet for seizures. And yes, the study showed that for seizures, the ketogenic diet is the best diet. So, there are some things I think we can take. We can look at underlying factors. We can look at symptoms and create these likely scenarios that certain diets are going to be maybe the best or beneficial with certain things, but not kind of more of a protocol. Like, you have this, you do this diet. It's more complex than that.

Do you think that, I mean, I know we started this out talking about, you You know, the toxins that are in our world, but do you think that there's any contribution to autism and ADHD, um, that involves lifestyle in terms of like a loss of, you know, I think of like certain, I, you know, I use ancestral a lot. So even though I'm not talking about our, you know, Paleolithic ancestors, I'm just talking about like pre-iPhones, you know what I mean? Like, like, so do you think some of these technologies, some of these newer modern lifestyles are contributing? To the symptoms?

I do. Uh, I, you know, my book, while it is on diet, there is a section on, you know, toxins. And one of the things I put in there are EMFs. And so there was a great series of papers by Dr. Martha Herbert, who is a pediatric neurologist, who looked at the, uh, kind of the underlying Biology going on in autism and compare that to the things that can happen to an organism or a cell or a person with EMFs and found a lot of correlations with that. And there are groups and organizations dedicated to really looking at that. So I think from a number of perspectives also, you know, the brain involves a lot of neurotransmitters. And so, you know, I feel like we're getting, let's say, too much dopamine or whatever it is from being on our screens all the time. I don't think that's going to be advantageous when we're already trying to work on the neurochemistry. So I think from that perspective, there's a few things. And also if we look at ancestral living, there was a lot more activity, physical activity than we have in our world today. And that survey that I was talking about, that study we did on diet and looked at, you know, psychiatric and seizure medications and other things, also looked at other therapies and looked at things like physical activity. And physical activity has been shown to be very beneficial for people with autism. And I can tell you, parents will often tell you the same thing. So I do think, you know, going back to even our childhood where we, not so maybe ancestral, but even, even just a couple dozen years ago, we can see that a way of a more natural way of living, getting outside, getting out in nature, riding a horse, riding a bike, going for a walk, some sort of physical activity, and less of that indoors on screens, I think does have an important beneficial component.

Yeah, that makes so much sense. What about The palate and textures for kids that have ADHD or autism. Sometimes depending on, on the level of either of those 2, specifically autism, it can play out where they are very picky, correct? Like very picky and very specific about what foods they're willing to eat. What are some of the tips you've found to help break some of those cycles?

Well, firstly, I would say you're absolutely right. And so for parents that are listening, don't be disheartened, or I would hope you won't be disheartened by if your child is, if you're struggling around feeding your child, because it is very common. 80% of kids with developmental delays have picky eating and with autism, There are more picky eating behaviors there that in some of them very specific to autism. So a vast majority of my clients have picky eating habits. So I still, even if your child has picky eating, I still think that I'm still including you in the conversation about improving diet because it is possible. I like to suggest things like texture is a big one. So how do we make vegetables maybe crispy and crunchy at the beginning to get them used to them, to get them more familiar with them in a texture they like? You know, over time you can evolve things as you can, but for now that's beneficial. And figuring out what it is they do like. So Do they like certain textures and how can you make whatever it is, whether it's protein, maybe protein is too chewy for them, too dry and chewy. And so, uh, you, you maybe you marinate it in a sauce or you braise it or, you know, something like that. Uh, so figuring out how they like it and providing it that way. So, you know, again, one of the recipes is Like chicken pancakes. So it's like, it's chicken and eggs into a pancake, but in a form that kids tend to like. So I like to do that kind of thing, really look at how can I make it in a, in a way that they're more willing to accept it.

What do you say to some of those parents that, because I'm sure you've heard this before, like, well, I don't think I should hide food from my kid. You know, I should, you know, they should know exactly what they're eating. What do you say to those? people that come at, you know, diet and nutrition with very dogmatic perspectives?

Yes. Well, really try. One of the big things is, you know, in my, when my practitioner, um, when I train practitioners, I say, um, uh, no diet dogma, you know, cause that, that, that's, I feel very important if you're going to personalize something. With that said, I would say Uh, you, you have to know your child because I would agree whenever I suggest ideas for getting vegetables in, I always say, if you're going to hide it, you need to know your child. Because if you hide it for a child that only has a few foods, is highly suspicious and unlikely to, unlikely to take it and highly likely to reject it, you might lose an important food. So I think that, you know, I like to honor that. Um, there is some truth to it. However, on the other side, there are kids that, you know, they're just like, oh, I don't like anything green. It's yucky. And it's just more of a, you know, in a mindset thing. But if you put it in a sauce, they don't know, they don't care. They just don't wanna see it or they don't like the texture of it. And so you've put it in a form that is visually more appealing for them or texturally more appealing to them. So I think it, it does depend and I think it can be a tool, but not for everybody.

Yeah, that makes sense. Did you ever, you mentioned when you went down this path that you didn't have kids. Did, do you, did, have you, do you have kids now?

Yes, I do. I do have a, a daughter.

Oh, wonderful. Um, but I'm curious, early on when you didn't and you, here you were dispensing, you know, advice and support to parents, did you get any pushback of like, well, you don't know what I'm going through or anything like that?

Surprisingly not. I mean, maybe they said it behind my back, but I never heard that. Um, you know, I think, I think people, I don't know, saw my sincerity and I always try to make things very based in science. So that's one of my favorite things. I've published 2 research papers. Um, I love science. So most of what I talk about and recommend is based in the science behind it. And also a lot of individual experience, family, you know, evidence from a clinical perspective.

How do you though reconcile, I mean, I feel like just in the last 10 years, we have been revealed that so many scientific papers were doctored or, or, or, um, or were influenced by, you know, some big food or big pharma or something, you know. So how do you reconcile trusting and, and, you know, digging into the science when we're also on the flip side being revealed that it's some of it and a lot of it is BS, that it's, it's been human, you know, Human-affected.

Yes. That is a little more difficult. And I would say a couple things, a lot of studies. So I read a lot of studies, um, you know, and, and some of it I did learn when getting my master's degree, like how do you really tell a good study? So that might be a little challenging maybe for some, you know, I'm not saying that everybody needs to understand like, What a good study design looks like. But what I would say is, okay, you want to know about the gluten-free dairy-free diet and a new paper. I'm just making this up, right? A new paper comes out saying there isn't any science to it. It doesn't work. By the way, they love— they, the media tends to really latch on to the stories that say diet doesn't work. But when the study comes out showing that diet does work, there's no buzz about it. You often don't hear about it. So that's why the, if you can read a number of studies, you can see the one, okay, let's read the ones that don't, that show it doesn't help. And let's read the ones that show it does help. And, you know, then you might find differences in how they were conducted. So the diet, the study, the randomized controlled trial we did, we did, um, diet, but we also looked at a whole phased approach of 6 different things, a multivitamin mineral formula. Then essential fatty acids, all the way through a healthy gluten-free, casein-free, and soy-free diet. And we followed them for a year. So, you know, if you're following them for a few weeks or you don't know how the diet was put together, or, you know, different things like that, you might not get the same results or they don't follow it strictly. So with something like a gluten-free, dairy-free diet, you really have to follow it very strictly in order to really get the benefits. If you're kind of doing it 80%, you might not see those benefits. So I think reading, reading the myriad of research on the topic will give you a broader perspective and you'll see, you know, sometimes a study doesn't show something and that's okay. But, you know, I don't know if you'll find any topic where 100% of studies show that it works. And that could be from a variety of different factors.

Where do you think, you know, we've talked about ancestral food. So where do you think that ancestral intuitive instinct or knowledge comes into play, um, with when you're trying to support these families? Like it is, 'cause you know, there's always that piece of like mother's intuition, right? We talk about that.

Mm-hmm.

But when a child has autism, Is their intuition kind of not as regarded because it's based on the condition? And, and if so, or if it, if it's not as regarded, then who's into it? Is there any room for intuition in this circumstance?

You know, I do very much believe in mother's intuition. And so that, so when I'm working with somebody, I will often, You know, before I might make a suggestion and, but then I always check in with them whether it, if, does it resonate with them? Does it seem like the path they wanna go down? That's, that's number one. So I do believe in mother's intuition. Uh, I also think from the individual child, it does get a little tricky because I always wanna honor, you know, any individual, whoever they are, whatever the age. So I always consider what their, you know, let's say their behavior is like, they don't wanna eat something. Let's say I always consider that. Because I wouldn't wanna ignore anybody, especially if they're nonverbal. There could be something that could be that that food is giving them heartburn and it's not good for them, uh, right now, or, you know, something like that. At the same time, they often do crave the very things that are the most problematic for them. So gluten and dairy, they can convert to opiates. They get strong cravings for those foods. That doesn't mean eat more of those foods. That might mean in that case that those foods are creating negative compounds. Um, there are other foods like that where they often crave the very things that are problematic. So what I try to do is, okay, let's look at the foods that they wanna eat. There are certain symptoms that are more associated in my experience with certain foods. So someone said that they had Uh, let's say pain, but they had pain and fatigue and, um, you know, other symptoms versus they had pain and hyperactivity and couldn't sleep at night. It might tell me something a little bit different, you know, different. So I like to look at what symptoms do they have? Do they correlate with the foods they're eating a lot of? In my experience. And if so, then maybe those foods are contributing to those symptoms that they're having. And maybe that's a, maybe that's a kind of a red flag to look more at those foods. So it's a little bit of, you know, if you crave sugar, should we say, oh yeah, that my intuition is telling me sugar is good for me? Most of us will say no. Because Sometimes we do crave the things that aren't good for us. But, you know, you'd be surprised. Sometimes the opposite is the case, but I like to, I think I just like to dig further and figure out what might be behind it.

Yeah. I mean, 'cause like in your example, maybe it's not literal, like, oh, you're craving sugar. And I know most people would say, well, Then that means they have a sweet tooth, but maybe it's that they need more fat in their diet or, you know, right. So it's just an indication of maybe that there's something else going on. So that's, that's a nice way to look at, you know, look at the situation with what, in your opinion though, and from your experiences, the single biggest mistake parents make when trying to fix their child's diet and what should they do instead?

Hmm. Oh, that's a good question. Let's think about that. The biggest mistake. I would say that the, the first maybe mistake is that not realizing how important diet actually is. And, you know, there are a lot of challenges on a daily basis just being a parent. And then if you have a parent with a child with some sort of ADHD, autism, special needs, developmental delays, There's a lot more day-to-day challenges and it can be hard to commit to doing diet. So I would say that maybe the first one is not realizing the potential power of diet. You know, if like for the example I gave of the child with aggression, yeah, it might, I'm sure it was work, but the power of that was, was pretty profound for them. And a lot of times parents don't realize That diet can have such an effect. So I think that might be one of the, the biggest maybe misconceptions. And I would say that maybe the biggest mistake they're making when they're doing diet might be that, yes, a little bit can hurt. So if they say, all right, well, we're doing gluten-free and dairy-free, but you know, they go and spend A week with grandma, a weekend with grandma, you know, every month. She loves to show love by baking her favorite cookies. And so, you know, it can't hurt that much. I mean, everybody is well-meaning, but they might just, they might not realize that actually, you know, the amount of a grain of rice or less than that could affect somebody for weeks and could keep that inflammation going. and those negative problematic compounds going for a long time. And so they never quite can get out of that. So I would say, you know, committing to the diet, just trying it 100%, just to really get a sense of if it's, if it's working.

You know, I have to imagine that stress is huge for families with children That are really exhibiting any of these, any of these issues, but particularly the really intense ones, right? That stress, stress must be just so high. So what tips do you have from your experience with all the families you've worked with in terms of managing that stress when they're first starting down this path of focusing on nutrition and food and making, and just starting to make these changes?

Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up because it was when I wrote my, when I, so my book is based on a program and, you know, it has the 12 steps, as I mentioned, and I struggled because it's a, it's a nutrition program, but the middle step of the program is take care of yourself. Because if you don't, then it's hard to help anybody else. It's hard to have the energy, uh, the mental fortitude, everything that you need on a daily basis in order to help Your child. And so, I struggled on, you know, is this going to resonate with people? Should I put this in? Because they want to help their child with nutrition. That's what the book is for. That's what the program is for. But I know I've got to put it in because, like you said, it is so important. So, you know, there's a whole chapter on stress, stress-relieving things, nourishing yourself. So, I mean, one of the things I talk about is I personally love EFT. So tapping, I personally really find that to be helpful, but maybe it's going for a walk, connecting with your friends. You know, when I'm going through something stressful, you know, I've got some good friends on speed dial and I could call them every day sometimes, because sometimes you just get triggered and, or you get, You know, negative thoughts or stressed out and you just need somebody to help you in that moment. Um, so somebody that understands you, that's why having a community like this is so valuable. Um, in fact, once I, I'm surprised sometimes that some people say that in my nutrition program, the most valuable thing is the community. And I'm thinking, not all the nutrition advice, um, but it really truly, that is very, uh, important. So I would say for stress, you know, whether it's get out, go for a walk, take care of yourself, eat something yourself. Parents are often the last people to take care of themselves. You know, they cook food for everybody else in the family and then they don't eat themselves. So really encouraging them to find time for them, for that they eat and get some fresh air and, and do those kinds of things.

Yeah. Community loss of community seems to be one of the biggest culprits of so many of our disorders in modern society, you know, that we've lost ancestrally. I think we were designed to be parts of communities and, and it just seems to be isolation just seems to be increasing more and more with our modern lives. So tell us about the Bio-Individual Nutrition Institute, speaking of community.

Yes. All right. So that's actually for my practitioners. So if practitioners want to learn how to do personalized nutrition, they can learn that, um, at Bioindividual Nutrition. Um, and, you know, again, it's one of those things we meet every month. We go through, you know, all sorts of really valuable things like how to help people with autism. The other community that I think might resonate really with people that are interested and I'll just share with them. So, um, you know, my new book that just came out has a program associated and has a community associated, and that is, um, Nourishing Hope. And that, um, you know, so if, if, you know, they can absolutely get the book, they can find it online, but if they want that community, they can join us over there, um, and really get that support on how to implement these things, you know, all of that. So there are a variety of ways I try to support parents. And so, yeah, so those are kind of the main 2 communities. And the Nourishing Hope community is the one I mentioned that has 146 different countries, people represented from all of the, all over the world. You would be surprised, which is why sometimes even something like You know, coconut might be very, very difficult to find, or it might be very easy to find. So, you know, every, you know, it, it depends where they're from. And that's why, uh, being able to connect with others and just, you know, also emotionally, um, as well as getting nutrition help.

Which really kind of puts even more fuel towards the bio-individual eating. 'Cause right, if you're working, if you're working with so many people throughout the world, you can't really say like, okay, everyone eat this. 'Cause it's, to your point, it's not going to be available everywhere.

Absolutely. In fact, my first book that I had written was published in Japanese. And when we, um, when we really dove into it, there's different foods, there's different foods they, um, you know, obviously, obviously every culture has different foods they have access to, but there's different foods that they eat a lot of. And they might have some additional sensitivities based on the foods they eat a lot of, you know? So, um, there, obviously we know that different cultures have different foods. different availability of foods, different traditions, but also they might have somewhat unique reactions to foods, which is again where that personalized element comes in.

Well, I'm grateful for you taking the time to talk about your work and your experiences because I really do— I said this when we started, but, you know, kids really are, I believe, the canaries in the coal mine.

Yeah.

And that it's really important to Take note of the health of our children because they are—they're a guide for how well things are, in my judgment. You know, like how is our environment? How is this modern way of living working? How how are these you know standard American diet foods working? You know, they are the indicators because they are going to affect them on a deeper level than maybe someone who's you know. in their 50s who was, grew up at a different age or whatnot, right? Um, their, their systems are more delicate early on, right? So that there, it's going to show up. Any issues that we are experiencing as a society are going to show up in our kids first, in my judgment.

Absolutely. And I used to have a slide for many years that children with autism are the canaries in the coal mine. Um, because in addition to being children, They tend to often, maybe their systems are, you know, maybe again, we'll go to detoxification, right? It's a little bit, might be a little bit less. They tend to react more. They tend to be a little more deficient. They tend to need more of the good nutrition and more of the therapeutic diets than maybe even other children might need. So, I agree with you completely on how— important our children's health is because they are more sensitive and they're smaller beings compared to the level of toxic load that they would get exposed to.

Yeah. Thank you again for joining. And so where, where are, what are some other ways people can learn and connect with you?

I would say maybe the primary way would be they can go on if they want to get a copy of my new book, the personalized autism nutrition plan. They can go to any major retailer, look up Julie Matthews Autism Nutrition. They'll be able to find it. Uh, that might be a, a really great way to, for them to connect with me besides the websites that I was mentioning.

Wonderful. Well, thank you so much, Julie. Any, um, any last kind of tip you want any families that are just getting exposed to realizing their child has autism or even Their child just got diagnosed with ADHD. Any last remaining tip you just would like to impart to them?

You know, I think just keep going. And then we go back to the intuition, intuition, trust your intuition. If you feel that there might be something related to their diet, they, if they think it needs to be improved more, or if you feel that there's something in there that's bothering them to just follow that and do some research, do some reading. And see what you can figure out and maybe talk to somebody, try something. But it really goes down with trusting your intuition and exploring it further.

Yeah. And I would echo that and just say that, you know, and you mentioned this early on, but it's the lowest hanging fruit. It's the thing that we do daily, multiple times daily. And my judgment should be the first thing we look at because it's It's the, it doesn't require paying a lot of money to just start being curious about, is this affecting our health? You could, you simply can just go online, start looking it up, start pulling out certain foods, trying new things. Like it truly is the lowest hanging, lowest cost fruit. Because once you start going to a practitioner, bills will start to get higher.

Exactly. You know, it's true. It's something we all, we all have to eat. So we're going to be buying food anyway. So, and it's something we have control over because we're, you know, we, we are, you know, we feed ourselves, we feed our children. So it's, it's, it's nice in that way as well, because we have, um, it's something that, uh, I think it can empower us.

Yeah. Well, thank you, Julie. And thank you all for participating in this episode. Uh, just keep curious and keep Asking those questions. And if there's anything we learned today is, is try to incorporate those ancestral concepts of real nutrient-dense foods, community, and getting outdoors. Thank you so much for joining me on Everyday Ancestral. If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe so you don't miss the next one. You could find the show notes, links, and resources mentioned at eatpluck.com. That's eatpluck.com. And hey, if you know someone who'd get something out of this, share it with them too. Stay curious, live well, and keep it ancestral.