Bison and Our Ecosystem with CEO Phil Graves of Wild Idea Buffalo

All right, here we go. Phil Graves, it's such a pleasure to get talk to you. I'm not only excited to have you guys as a sponsor for January, but I'm even more excited just to share all about your mission, share about your product with everyone. So I'd love you to just go right into it, talk about why buffalo and, and why, why are you doing it the way you're doing it.

Yeah, thanks for having me. So, hey Everybody. Phil Graves, CEO of Wild Idea Buffalo Co. We have been raising grass fed grass finished and humanely field harvested Buffalo since 1997. And the reason we do bison instead of cattle is simple. It's for the environment and for the ecological reasons. Our founder Dan o' Brien was a pioneer in rotational grazed cattle and doing some great things. You can certainly have a model that regenerates the grasslands with cattle if you're thoughtful about it. But he had this lingering question about well, what if I switch to bison or buffalo? These animals have had a symbiotic relationship with the northern Great Plains grasslands for thousands of years. And you know, if I'm able to bring them back, that's important for many reasons, most of all the birds. Dan is a big birder and conservationist. Dan previously worked for the Peregrine Fund helping to reintroduce peregrine falcons and wants to do everything he can to create and preserve habitat for ground nesting birds. So the whole reason that wild idea was, was built is Dan's love for birds. And that's what we're, we're continuing to build upon today.

That's amazing. That's not an obvious connector point for, I mean it's not even usually part of the discussion really is why we're choosing, you know, grass fed grass finish and how is it helping the ecosystem around it. You know that brings a whole other level to why we eat regenerative farmed animals and whatnot. But would you, I remember when we first met, you talked about something that I've never heard anyone doing, which was basically the how you kill the animal. Would you talk about that a little bit?

Yeah, absolutely. So going back in time, Dan started with a very small, humble herd of 13 orphaned baby buffalo. When he made the switch from cattle in the late 90s and fast forward a couple years, Dan was not and is not independently wealthy. If he was going to regenerate the prairie grasslands, he would need the buffalo to pay their own way through being able to sell the meat. So Dan did what most entrepreneurs would do and that's look at what is standard in the industry. So he talked with other buffalo producers, and they would point him to. To feed lots, to fatten up the animals, and then route them to a slaughterhouse. Dan did his due diligence and visited feedlots, and it broke his heart to see buffalo, this iconic, special keystone species held in confinement, being forced to eat things that nature didn't design it to eat. And then ultimately visited slaughterhouses, too, and was astonished at the conditions that the animals are forced to endure. It's horrible for cattle to go through a traditional slaughterhouse, and even more so for a bison, a wild creature, to do so. But Dan was in the buffalo business, and so he made the really hard but impactful decision to completely bypass this traditional standard industry model of feedlots and slaughterhouses. He did his homework and realized that you can have a USDA inspector ride along with your team that can take the animals down humanely one at a time in the field. We call it the humane field harvest. And that's what we did in the late 90s and early 2000s on the first harvest. And now we harvest about a thousand animals a year. Under that same approach, the animals are given dignity and death. They're never trucked anywhere while they're alive. They spend their entire existence roaming the prairies, freely spending time in family units, and then ultimately on the harvest. It is our view that it's absolutely best in class to bring them down with a headshot. There's no pain, there's no stress, there's no suffering. It is by far the best way to harvest an animal from an animal welfare standpoint, and we're pleased to share that. We are animal welfare approved by a greener world. So a third party has affirmed that we're best in class. Importantly, from the human health consumption side and the health benefits side, having a humane field harvest results in meat with lower cortisol. Cortisol is a stress hormone you and your viewers likely know and proliferates in stressful conditions by definition. So if an animal's at a feedlot, held in confinement, if they're poked and prodded at a slaughterhouse after they've been held in a truck for, you know, many hours, they're going to be stressed out and they'll release adrenaline, they'll release cortisol, and that ultimately takes the meat in terms of taste and the health benefits. Whereas with our model and we've tested this, there's. There's no pain, there's no suffering, there's no stress. It's just lights out and ultimately it's a far better product for humans to eat.

You know, I never thought about it from that perspective because I, I, when I talk about organ meats, I always talk about like supports, like you know, that ancestral concept. But it just occurred to me hearing you talk about this, that you know, if you're looking at cows from CAFOs that have very high cortisol amounts due to the stress, then we're eating those. And I, I have to imagine the people that are mostly eating CAFO meat. I, I, I have to like supports, like, so if you're getting lots of cortisol, is that then increasing your cortisol and is that potentially one of the many reasons why we're seeing so much anxiety in people these days? I, you know, completely just introduced that concept to me right now.

Most definitely. It's that old adage, you are what you eats. But then going a step further, it's you are what you eat, eats. And that stress, it comes through in the form of lower quality from KOS and higher quality from grass fed grass finished and humanely field harvested.

Yeah, that's really fascinating because I always, I knew that it affected the taste of the meat, but I didn't correlate it to, well, how, how is it potentially affecting us on a, you know, on our cortisol, on our anxiety levels? Yeah, that's, that is really fascinating. So have you, you said you guys have tested, so you're testing, did you test not only the cortisol levels, which it sounds like that was, that was one of the things you tested, but did you also test the nutritional level in comparison?

We have, and the results are not surprising. Our grass fed grass finished and field harvested meat is when compared to traditional beef, it's lower in fat, lower in calories, higher in omega 3s, so a better omega 3 to 6 ratio, which is really important for, for brain health and, and all the key metrics that you would want to live a, a healthy and vital life. You need to have protein, you need to have healthy, clean meat to eat. And that's the results that we saw and in our third party testing.

Wow, that's phenomenal. And you guys, you're, you're currently in South Dakota, right? Is that primarily where, where they are roaming that entire.

Yeah. So our whole supply chain is rooted in the northern Great Plains. Our home ranch accounts for about 25 to 30% of our supply depending on the year. And then we also work with sourcing partners who have the same practices in place at their ranches which Are primarily in South Dakota, Nebraska, Wyoming, so contiguous neighboring states to South Dakota. And the important thing to note is even if we don't own the ranch from the sourcing partner, we do visit the ranch and we conduct the exact same harvest. So our mobile harvest unit and then the team travels on site to those locations and does the exact same humane slaughter, which is what we've done for, for 26 years at our home ranch.

How far away is. I feel like you. Because you're using a sharpshooter, right? So how far away are they when they, when they go to slaughter an animal?

It, it just depends. Typically it's a relatively short shot. So 30 yards, give or take. Okay. It's. We have a video on our website and it's actually a very surreal process to watch. And you know, I wasn't sure what to expect when I saw it the first time. But the sharpshooter takes his time and makes sure that he doesn't harvest unless it's the perfect shot. The animal doesn't seem stressed. Inevitably they're just chomping on some native prairie grass and they, they look up and then that's when he places the shot. The animal drops instantly and then the herd surrounding them is unfazed. That was the biggest surprise for me. No animals freak out or run away and show any signs of stress. You know, often they'll kind of look over and sometimes walk over and give a sniff and then walk away and just continue their business of roaming and eating native grasses. So it's a very calm and tranquil process. That is one that we've been doing for a quarter century.

Wow, that's incredible. Now there's a lot of talk.

You.

Know, it's very prevalent about, you know, particularly coming from one extreme to the other. So one extreme is saying that animals are causing harm to the earth, causing.

Issues.

Obviously that's where the plant based kind of movement is happening. And then you have on the other side, people saying that, oh well, you know, just eat meat. Doesn't really matter where it's coming from, what it's been fed. Right. So we're seeing extremes on both sides. But you're specifically addressing the animals working with the earth, that, I mean, would you say that even where they're roaming, I mean, these are, these are areas you probably wouldn't be able to have something else. Right. These, these are. I've heard that in other regards that a lot of times where we're allowing the cows or in this case the buffalo to be is not really A place where you would be growing anything else anyway, right?

That's precisely right. A friend of mine, Marshall Johnson, who's Audubon's chief conservation officer and spearheaded their conservation ranching program, which basically says that you can have cows and bison that have a, a benefit to ecosystems and birds. Hence the connection with Audubon. And Marshall's famously said and shared that it's not the cow or bison, it's the how. To your point, James, it's how those animals are raised, where they're raised. Are they going to feed lots and then slaughterhouses? I mean, ultimately, if you look at the data, more than half of the crops grown in this country are going to feed ruminants, which they shouldn't eat. Ruminants are designed to eat grass and we should let them roam freely on grass for their health and welfare and for ours in turn. About alternative land uses, you bring up a really good point. So our 36,000 acre home ranch is about 40 minutes southeast of Rapid City, South Dakota. And in earlier days, farmers would try and till up this land and, and make a living there. And it didn't work. I mean, the reality is they don't get enough precipitation there. Those farmers went bust. And for all the precious topsoil that was tilled up and used in a monoculture system, which is terrible for biodiversity, it ultimately resulted in failure. So we're fortunate that much of our home ranch is intact, pristine prairie. But over the years we have bought some of these what I'll call failed experiments in monoculture, where the farmers just couldn't make it work. Not getting enough rainfall or not having the right soil type to grow corn or wheat or soy, and converted that back into native pastures, which is exactly what it should be. It's sequestering carbon, pulling it safely from the air and storing it in the ground. Just like we learned and second grade science about photosynthesis and it's the, the highest and best use for the land.

Yeah, that is such an important point. I, I think that gets lost in the discussion a lot, that they just focus on the CAFO style versus the not now. This is kind of a funny comment and I'm just curious what your answer is. Someone recently told me that the size of buffalo are now smaller than some cows because of how the cows have been bred. Is that true? Because historically were humongous. Right?

I mean, that's right. Yeah. Oftentimes our, our bison being grass fed and finished are smaller than a traditional beef cow. But again, it goes back to cows being bred for, for weight and efficiency in this industrial model. And then the feedlot side, so fattening up those animals with corn or cereal grains, things they weren't designed to eat. It'd be like if you or I were locked in a closet and fed a tray of Twinkies every 30 minutes. We're going to get bigger, of course in short order as well. It doesn't mean that we're healthier for it. So with us, we do have to call out the fact that in the industry, more than 90% of bison unfortunately go to feedlots. That's the industry standard. Many people, when they eat bison or buffalo, they feel like they're getting a, a grass fed and finished animal by default. That's not the case. It's, it's a minority where you have grass fed and finished and a, and even more so small slice of the industry where you have the field harvest like wild idea. And for that reason, our bison are spending their entire lives eating native grasses. They're healthy, they're the proper weight, but they're, they're not going to be near as big as a steer that was finished in a feedlot.

Yeah, I find that really fascinating. Now I'm interchanging buffalo and bison, but I'm probably incorrect around that. What, what is the difference?

Or is it. You are correct? Yeah, we, we get this question often. There's a helpful Nature Conservancy post that talks about is it buffalo or bison? And the answer is both. So scientifically, if you want to be a stickler, it's the American bison or bison. Bison, that's the, the species that we raise and the only meat that we sell. We affectionately call them buffalo because they've been called buffalo for a couple hundred years now. And importantly, that's what our friends who are in many cases our sourcing partners, Native Americans refer to them, they call them buffalo. That's why our name is Wild idea Buffalo. But the scientific name is bison.

Okay, interesting. Now when you go to slaughter, are you guys. So I'm being in the organ business, I'm more and more learning that, that there are certain organs you just can't get access to here in the U.S. you know, brain, of course is an obvious one, but many glands. They, they don't classify them as for human consumption, that they're a lot of times just dietary supplements. Sometimes you, the USDA doesn't even let you buy them because the pharmaceutical somewhere. Yeah, so is that true for urine, you know, for bison as well or what, what do you get Access to. And what do you access to?

You know, you're. You've hit the nail on the head. Some of the obvious things that we. We have access to and sell are liver, kidney, you know, those types of organ meats that are more mainstream. But there are certain things like lungs, for example, that the current USDA regulations prohibit us from bringing back and selling for human consumption. So over time, we're hopeful that more people will recognize the human health benefits and safety of consuming organ meats. They're often the most nutritionally dense things that we can bring back, but for right now, it's things like heart and liver and spleen and kidney. Those are the main ones that we. We offer for sale.

And are you doing any grinds where you're adding, you know, the. The grind meat with the organ. A few of those organs?

We are. We feel like that's a great. A great gateway to consuming organ meats for the first time. We have an ancestral blend which is a 70, 30 mix of our ground bison and some organ meats. And then we're hopeful that we can offer more of those products over time.

That's great. Is it. What's the percentage of organ meats in there? Is it 30% organ meat?

Yes.

No kidding.

That's hot. That's high.

That's higher than most.

Yep, that's right.

That's incredible. Well, that's a great option for people. I'm always telling them, you know, when you're trying to get organs in your diet, a great first step is just buying those grinds, because usually you can't. The texture is not different, the taste is not different. Is that. I haven't tried your grind specifically. Is that. Do you find that to be true? That it. That even at that 30, that it's not too. Doesn't change?

Yeah, not. Not dramatically different. That's right. We'd be happy to get you some to tell for yourself, but ultimately we think that's a really good way to try organ meats for the first time, is with a blend with our traditional ground and the organ meats included.

Yeah, that's really great. Where do you guys see yourselves going? Like, are there.

Are there.

Obviously, growth is key. You know you're going to keep growing. But I just mean, is there anything you re. You mentioned you just got the Audubon approval. Where else is this mission taking you? Or is what. Where's. What is the future? What's in the future? And where do you have your eye there?

Yeah, we'd love to grow ourselves, but More importantly, we want to inspire the industry to do grass fed, grass finished and ultimately field harvested. The field harvest percent is well under 1% of overall red meat consumption in the US the US and for all the reasons that we described, expanding animal welfare to human health, we'd really like to see that grow from 1% to 5% to 10% and beyond over time. I think replicating the model that we've done is something that we're keenly interested in. We'd love to share our learnings and know how about the field harvest. It takes time to master it and we're still learning things like what's the best rifle round to use and how far away and headshot versus earshot. But I feel like for the most part we have this process as dialed in as you possibly can and we would be excited to share that with other producers so we can have a alternative to CAFOs for beef and bison in this country. Because plant based meats by themselves are not going to change the environmental crisis or the human health crisis that we put ourselves in. Circling back to your earlier point, I think you can certainly have plant based foods that are good for human health and environmental health as long as they're regeneratively raised. Let's underscore that last point. If you look at companies like Impossible and beyond raising the crops or growing the crops that are in monoculture based systems, they're often genetically modified, reliant upon Roundup to grow and using synthetic fertilizers and chemicals are incredibly hard for the environment. And a key reason why that we've lost so many of our birds over the last 30 years and lost so many of our insects over the last 30 years. So inherently there's nothing wrong with plant based meats as long as the supply chain that they have is full of regenerative and organic inputs. Just like on the beef side and the bison side. You can't just say that beef is better than plant based foods or vice versa. You have to go back to the source and look at how it's raised, how it's grown and what process along the way is used to bring that product to market.

Yeah, well said. I, it, you know, it is so alarming. I mentioned I, I moved to Massachusetts and I so I remember as a child whenever I come to the east coast how many lightning bugs there would be, you know, the globes and there's not as many anymore like at all. Like see them from a dark road.

One of the alarming statistics that I've seen is that since your childhood we've had a nearly 50% reduction in insect populations in areas that practice high intensity agriculture, which is the status quo in our country. So bug populations have been cut in half in areas where we're doing what I'll call just a spade. A spade. Chemical industrial agriculture. And the same rings true for birds. We've seen a reduction in 3 billion birds since the 70s largely due to monoculture, growing crops from fence line to fence line with no buffer for species and biodiversity. And that's exactly what we've, we've built. We put a system in place that prioritizes efficiency over all else. It doesn't price any of the externalities or ecosystem services which are really important for the environment for future generations and, and us. We're seeing this in our lifetime. James, like you've seen, you just stated and same is true for me. I grew up hunting and have a passion for upland birds like our founder Dan o'. Brien. And just looking at bobwhite quail and how that species has been in a tailspin largely due to high intensity agriculture. It's something that's, that's a crisis and we have to fix it. Yeah.

Well thank you guys for doing what you're doing to help fix it and I really hope that we do see a change in and how, how these animals are harvested. So do you see this applying the, the way you're doing with bison, you see that it can apply to the cow industry, the cattle industry as well. Most grass fed grass finished obviously.

You bet. I think that is a model that's proven is replicable, you know, in terms of scale I don't see massive mobile harvest units like we have and we, we typically bring back 40 at a time at the high end. That's what we can fit in our semi truck and trailer. But you can replicate this model regionally where you can have mobile harvest units for you know, the historic range of bison which is most of the country. And you're, you can do grass fed and finished beef in New England and Florida and the west coast and all of those places. Having mobile harvest teams and units I think is a key part of the future if we're going to fix this environmental and biodiversity crisis that we're in.

Well, please keep us posted how we can amplify the message and thank you so much for joining this organuary challenge. Wild idea Buffalo. If you're listening to this video during the month of January in 2024, you get 10% off of the buffalo meat and organs and it's good. Through January 31st. So thank you again for joining me, Phil. And you just, you guys are doing so much more than just the grass. Grass fed grass finished. You know, it's just, it's you, you. You've taken things to a whole other level and you've inspired me for sure. So I hope, I hope those listening and watching are also inspired because as we know, biggest change happens when we vote with our dollars. And so I hope everyone gives. Gives your bison a try, because I, I have. It's funny, actually. I have. Not personally. I actually, no, I did try some at someone's house and it was phenomenal.

It's.

It's phenomenal, everyone. I cannot speak highly enough about it. It. It is so good and so much has more flavor. And as you said, you don't have. Because of the lower fat. You don't have to overcook it, you know? You know, you don't have to do. You just have to do very little to it. And it just is this beautiful piece of meat. So thank you. Thank you so much for what you're doing.

My pleasure. Thanks for having me on. All right.