Cancer at 15, Heart Failure at 20, Then a Brain Tumor | Dr. Lisa Koche

What are the chances of one human having all of these things? And it was 1 in a billion. I had to go through chemo, relapsing on my ovary, and then going into heart failure. I just kept asking every doctor I saw why. So I found out quickly that traditional medicine was not a problem as much as it was incomplete. And that's one of the things I know I'm here to do is help bridge all these modalities for everybody listening, because it's confusing.

You know, most doctors, They meet illness from the outside in. Today's guest, Dr. Lisa Koch, met it from the inside first as a 15-year-old with leukemia and later through chemotherapy-induced heart failure. And there's even more that's going to be revealed in this episode. So, so honored to have you on the show.

Thank you.

At 15, you were the patient. Later, you became the doctor. What did teenage Lisa need from medicine that Dr. Lisa now knows how to name?

Teenage Lisa wanted an answer. I wanted to know why my friends were fine and I felt fine, but I had to go through chemo and all the, the really horrible things that I had to endure, especially losing my hair and going to high school without hair and relapsing on my ovary when I was 20 and having to Go through chemo again, and then going into heart failure. I just kept asking every doctor I saw why, you know, why why did this happen to me? And realized nobody had any answers that made any sense. So I figured if I went to med school, I could figure it out myself. So I went to med school. As patients came in and would have different symptoms, I would ask, okay, but why? Like, why are we putting on on this protocol? Why aren't we digging in to find out why these people are sick? And I drove everybody crazy with my questions, and the answer I got was, "This is just how we do it." So your question of like, what did I go find out as as a doctor? We're still uncovering. So I found out quickly that traditional medicine was not a problem as much as it was was incomplete. And so I I started my career looking to fill those gaps of understanding.

Because what I hear you saying is that, well, it wasn't supporting the root cause, it was just focusing on symptoms. So is that the problem? At least?

Yeah, that was the problem. And then the fact that when patients would come in and say, you know, well, I have these symptoms, we would— I would watch the doctors either gaslight, manipulate, say, you know, we don't have an answer for that, you must need an antidepressant. I watched that where I knew I had had a lot of symptoms that didn't have clear answers either. And I knew mine wasn't a psych-related problem. So, I just kept looking for ways to fill that gap. And I learned a lot through the time. I started my practice in internal medicine because it was the broadest approach to root cause that was out there. I would learn from my patients who would come in reading about integrative approaches to thyroid or like other things with hormones or nutrition. We weren't taught any of that in med school. And eventually, I found functional medicine. This was back 20 years ago before it was the cool thing to do. And that was a really exciting time for me because all of a sudden there were some explanations for what was going on with a lot of these people.

Now, your journey kind of took you towards revealing tools that might support some of the optimizations, the thriving that most of us are kind of seeking to To the point where you created a center where you're just, your center's just filled with all these kind of, I don't know, for lack of a better word, biohacking tools. That's what everyone's always wondering is like, what, what does work? So what led you towards those specific tools? And can you talk about those tools that you have at your center?

Absolutely. When I was 20 and I had to have chemo for a second time, I pretty quickly went into heart failure from one of the toxic drugs. That was my first exposure to supplements because my uncle was a podiatrist and he started shipping me CoQ10 and carnitine, which are supplements for your mitochondria. I didn't know what they were. This was pretty cutting edge back then, and they just were on auto-ship, and I started taking them and I got better. Now, was it a young heart? Was it the meds they gave me? Was it the supplements? We don't know. But what I was able to run the 15K, and I kept learning from my body. What was next. It would guide me. So, throughout time of my practice from 20 till today, mitochondrial medicine has been a big focus. And, the mitochondria, for your listeners, are parts of the cell that produce energy. They weren't understood in any depth. Like, even in medical school, we weren't taught more than we learned in high school biology about these organelles, they're called, until maybe the past 10 years. So, I was playing with them, and a lot of the biohacks and different tools we have, it turns out, are really focused on optimizing energy production from these organelles that are inside all of our cells except for our red blood cells. I was initiated. I had no choice. I was an original biohacker because my body needed it. After I had my daughter, I got Hashimoto's, and psoriasis, and sinus problems. They wanted to operate on my eyes from thyroid eye disease, and all of these different problems came on board, and I was able to reverse most of them with in natural ways to the point where I got myself well enough to have a second kid. And even then, having cardiac issues after that, healing my heart for the most part with mitochondrial support of that types of tools that we have in the office, which range from red light therapy to hyperbaric oxygen to Charging plates that increase voltage across cell membranes, to activated oxygen like ozone, and many, many more that I kind of select what is gonna be the biggest bang for the buck for the patient, for the clinic.

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I did. So trucking along, doing really well, probably some of the best my body has been in the past 20 years. I noticed some subtle things, um, like my balance was off a tiny bit in yoga, but nothing I would have ever thought anything about until 10 days before where I couldn't see. The lanes were getting blurry while I was driving and my eyes weren't tracking. And I thought it was my thyroid because I had— I was a little late in checking the labs. Not even that late, maybe a month late. And my thyroid was way off. So when your thyroid's way off, weird things can happen. I switched my bed. I said, I'll feel better soon. I went off to a podcast interview in New York and a meeting because driving was the only thing that was bothering me. And so I was like, oh, I'll be in New York, no problem. And I'm in New York and my balance and my eyes are getting worse. I'm feeling worse instead of better, which should have happened with the switch of the thyroid medicine. And by the time I got back home, clearly something was wrong. I went in for imaging and they found a mass in my brain. Thank God was a benign— what's called vestibular schwannoma. It's a tumor of the balance and hearing kind of nerves in the brain. And they told me it had been there 20 years now, unrelated to the leukemia in the heart. And while we were in the hospital, my family was searching on chat, like, what are the chances of one human having all of these things? And it was About one in a billion, so to have an unrelated schwannoma that required relatively urgent surgical removal. So they just went in, and and the universe has always guided me. So the trusting that things are happening for you has been a motto of mine since I was fifteen. But this one was a was a real test because I was here. I was doing well. We just moved into this eight thousand square foot facility in Tampa. That has a lot of overhead, and here I am suddenly, you know, out of commission. The timing—my right-hand nurse practitioner about to go out on maternity leave. Just so many, so many interesting challenges, and I just had to go within and trust that there was a higher purpose. And when we started researching, okay, thank God it's benign. How? What are we going to do about getting this out? Should we fly somewhere? We found that the best surgeon. In the country or maybe even the world who's the president of the society for these skull-based tumors was 5 minutes from my house. So we were able to do it at the local hospital where I already knew people. I had a lot of beautiful synergy because I'd done my residency there. So like nurses and PTs and all these beautiful humans that had been touched by my care or had worked with me when I was a resident were able to help come and take care of me, which was was really amazing to observe and to receive. I had to go into receive mode, which isn't my primary on button. I'm more historically a giver, and I'm constantly working on allowing myself to sit back and receive. And I went through an almost 9-hour surgery. They were able to do it behind my ear, which was very nice because I think if I'd had to lose my hair again, it would've been really, really hard. That's a trigger for me. Um, they were able to do it, cut, cut the tumor out, and, and I lost hearing on that one side, but they got the tumor out. I just went yesterday for my follow-up MRI, and it looks incredible. So that's, that's a really interesting image where you can see the mass was pushing on my amygdala, which is that survival part of the brain. They said it's been there for 20 years. It just got to a point where it was large enough to cause problems. And our bodies are so incredible. My brain was able to grow back symmetrically into that space already, and it's only 3 months out.

It's always fascinating to me when I talk to someone who is a doctor, who is basically, you know, steeped in science to a degree, or, or that is what our medical system, you know, it's what defines our medical system, right, is the science. And yet they talk about faith. and spirituality and trusting the body? To me, it sounds like one is driving, but maybe one is in the distance. I mean, what is your relationship to science and faith? I love this question.

First off, I'd start by saying it's different for everyone. I think it doesn't have to have a set look. It can be religious, but it doesn't have to be. It can just be more scientific, the universe, source, For me, it's an inner knowing. So even at 15, I knew I was going to be okay. I knew there was a purpose. I knew this was happening for me. I had no idea why, when, where, what. And I chose the path of it's better it happened to me than somebody else. I can handle it and I'm going to be good and I'll figure it out later. So throughout my life, I've had that. That just came innately. And I think this most recent time I've been studying a lot of spirituality. I really am fascinated by this spiritual causes of illness in general. I have been with my patients and myself my whole career. So understanding we had a whole ancient wisdom and interventions that people did before modern medicine came in, and I think unfortunately pharmacology and the— all the issues with the traditional medical system and all the agendas that, that are out there really replaced a lot of the knowledge of our ancestors. So bringing that back, because it's inside us, it's in ourselves. And I've studied lots of different spiritual-type practices. The more recent, I've gone deep in Kabbalah, which is all about trusting that things happen for you, literally, and surrender, and knowing that the universe and source is inside of us. And so I, I keep going in deeper. And it was interesting when this happened, this event, my brain was taken offline because it was swollen. And so that annoying part that all of us deal with of, oh my God, what's next? What did I— how did this happen again? Like, I'm over it, I'm done, I'm sick of this. You know, all the chattery stuff in a— to a certain degree was taken offline and it was just me and, and inside I got to go really deep. And I just felt this peace of surrender. There's gonna be a purpose, it's gonna continue to reveal itself. And I'm here to teach humans about resilience. I'm here to teach humans about hope. I'm here to teach humans about connecting to that spiritual side of themselves that can guide us through just about anything.

I mean, so powerful, Lisa. I mean, you are, in my judgment, The definition of a superwoman. And I think we look at superheroes as having powers that are bigger than being human. But in my judgment, you are being forced into really delving deep into your humanity and your inner strength. I mean, you're facing things that most people do not face in a lifetime. Some don't face any of them, let alone One of the many things you faced, right? And yet you continue to turn it around, not only with your resilience, but also in how do I apply my learnings to helping others? And most people never even get to that point. It's just all self-reflection and it kind of stays within their bubble. But you continue to be like, how can I apply these learnings? How can I support others so they don't go down this path? What is the difference then for you of being saved Being treated and actually healing?

Saved, meaning not dying from this, right? Being treated, the process, and like healing who you are on the other side of it is, is what I'm taking as your question. Saved is when you turn to the outside, so something is saving you. Modern medicine had the most incredible intervention You've ever— like, they took out a little piece of a bone I didn't need in my mastoid. I plan, by the way, to regrow using light and stem cells. I have some ideas on regrowing part— the part they took out so I can hear again. We'll see how that goes. Savior or saved kind of depends on others. And I would just say, I think it's always the bridge. It's always black and white. I mean, not black and white. It's always gray. It's always a combination. So yes. Others came in. I had to be open. There are so many influencers and people today poo-pooing modern medicine completely. You know, they take the all-or-none side, and this was an example of modern medicine in the most extreme, beautiful way. So the healing was a combination of both— of me not going into victim mode, of me trusting, of me surrendering, of me having to choose to receive from everybody that was trying to To give me that support of me, like, allowing myself the grace to heal over the 1 month, 6 weeks that I was home and not working as much, even though I knew I had this business that needed me and those types of things. Letting my team step up and then being healed. So the treated is all of those things, but healing is the combination of all of it. So as I come out on the other side, I can say, like, Here's where the traditional medicine came in. Here's where me tapping into a receiving mode and grace came in. Here's where all my integrative things because I've been doing hyperbaric. I've been I just started peptides for neuronal cell regrowth. I I constantly you know I can act like I'm a normal person, but I at most days I do four to five biohacks before sometimes before I leave the house, whether it's PEMF or red light or. Getting on a Power Plate or, or activated oxygen. So I'm combining that along with the best supplements and my knowledge on the physical side and, and utilizing all that. And, and that's one of the things I know I'm here to do on the planet is help bridge all these modalities for all everybody listening and for just humanity in general, because it's confusing the amount of stuff that's out there that people are trying to navigate.

And it doesn't seem like the growth, you know, on your brain is dissuading you from the effectiveness of these modalities.

No. Well, the tumor, they got it all out of my brain. So my— what was really interesting that I just saw on the MRI yesterday was my brain was literally smushed, and after 3 months, it's come into perfect balance again. So that's what we're capable of. If you just look, you know, the resilience of the human— we hear about the resilience of the human spirit, but I mean, this was just a short period of time and how quickly the brain could grow back into place. You know, was it accelerated by all the different therapeutics? Yes. But clearly also my ability to step into, this is for me once again. This is something that's gonna allow me to have an even bigger reach with, with people that, that need to hear what I have to say.

You really ride that In both worlds, like the biohacking world, but then also as you're talking about medical science, which sometimes those are different, right? Some, sometimes the biohacking tools don't have all the research yet because they're so new. But then you're also writing, as you mentioned, the spiritual side as well. You've got your foot in kind of 3, 3 areas. What I find fascinating when I talk to people that overcome really extenuating circumstances like yours, the pattern I see is that they try everything. They don't go just down one path, go all in with just, let's say, chemo or, but they're literally trying everything. They're trying the biohacking tools. They're trying meditation. They're, they're literally trying everything and anything because as they see it as like, we don't necessarily know what's working. We just know that there is something out there that's beyond, you know, that's possible. They see what's possible. What typically happens is you, you lose your authority. You, you get scared by your diagnosis and you basically surrender your health to whoever it is that gave you the diagnosis. So how do people become the CEO of their own health?

I'll start it by saying the time to begin this work is not when the diagnosis comes. The time to begin this work is now. That's something I'm super passionate about, is getting people to start paying attention to the fact that what we're teaching and what we need to be doing is for what's coming tomorrow, because there's an unknown tomorrow. Hopefully it's not some brain tumor that's been there 20 years, but it could be a divorce. It could be, you know, like a family member that passes away. It could be, you know, getting exposed to extreme toxins. So I, I like to really work on people before the diagnosis comes. I'm happy to talk about what happens when it comes as well, but I think if we can get people who are mostly disconnected from their bodies, who are living day in and day out on the hamster wheel, just to reconnect. And it's often very painful because there's trauma from all types of things in just about every person's physical vessel. So it's easier to live outside of it. It's easier to scroll or merge into your partner or work 24/7. If we can get people to spend that time disconnected in nature, like feeling their bodies, feeling their pain a bit, letting it come to the surface, working through it, acknowledging it, giving themselves grace, That's always my first thing I do with people is work on reclaim, I call it, which is reclaiming your nervous system and your responses to the environment in general. And I think if you have a diagnosis, it's probably going to be exactly the same as well. It's just going to be a little bit harder because the fear does kick in. The medical establishment has us outsourcing our sovereignty to whatever the system is and, and the doctor. And a lot of times you need that short-term to feel supported, but you can work in partnership with these practitioners and maintain your own sovereignty at the same time. So it's gonna be easier if you establish that personal sovereignty before something big and traumatic comes in.

So as a chef of 20-plus years, I've always been about taste, but it was becoming a father that made me really start to think about function, because I want my kids to thrive and I want to be around long enough to witness it. And it was when my daughter became ill, my wife and I, we struggled to get the right nutrients into her. It was a true wake-up call. That experience is why Pluck was created. So Pluck is a superfood seasoning made with 100% grass-fed beef organ meats blended with organic spices and herbs. The beautiful thing is it doesn't taste like organ meats. It just tastes like the seasoning you're already using. But better, because when you add it, you're adding these bioavailable nutrients that your body can actually use. If you can salt it, you can pluck it. Learn more at eatpluck.com and save 15% off your first order using code EA15. So how does someone achieve that personal sovereignty? Like, how, how does a body in survival mode—

what does that body need So, when I describe it, I talk about our bodies being almost like a motherboard, the computer. So, we've got systems, our nervous system predominantly, that's listening to inputs coming in 24/7, whether it's blue light from our computer, whether it's walking on eggshells in bad relationships, whether it's poor food we're putting into our body. So, when that happens chronically, Our stress systems get overworked, and then our thyroid and hormonal systems are back up, and they burn out. Very often, people will focus a lot on things like perimenopause and all these things that are endpoints from the original problem. So, if we can hit on the original issue, which is our constant inputs to our nervous system, how do we handle them? Yes, you may need a little testosterone or a little progesterone, but it doesn't need to be this life-changing event if I can get people in their body. And how I do it is sometimes diet, sometimes tools to calm and activate the vagal nerve. So there's a lot now that are out there, everything from wearables that you can wear directly on your vagal nerve like the Pulsetto or the Apollo. These are devices I'm happy to explain that send messages that are beneath your— like, it's sort of under the brain process. You can just tell the body directly to calm down, that it's safe. There are programs that you can work through on the computer that are also talking about this, because what happens is when a body doesn't feel safe, it doesn't know the difference between a virus, a fight, chemo, anything. It just shuts down into what's called a cell danger response. And, and we don't want that response to happen because then nothing works. Tell the body it's safe, and we need to start healing the cell membranes. So I put patients on blends of phospholipids that will heal the cell membrane, and then I have them do a lot of different exercises to calm the vagus nerve: somatic work, journaling, grounding. Have them understand that they are going to feel—they're going to feel uncomfortable when they start being present for once in their bodies. We find different ways to work through that, and I explain how a lot of different ends. Symptoms, whether it's Hashimoto's or, you know, low testosterone in young men, why that's happening and how it's related. And then we will give them the support they need for those backup systems so they can transition into kind of reclaiming that level of sovereignty where they see, wow, if I can get calmed down, if I can heal my cell membranes, if I can restore my backup systems and like really work on just some basic foundations, shaping up the diet, hydrating, all the, all the things that people think are boring because they're tired of hearing eat well, drink enough water, understanding that these are the key to getting you out of feeling unsafe.

What are 3 of your favorite modern tools, the tools that you think move the needle the most for anyone in any circumstance?

My favorite right now that I've seen dramatic improvement with is a device called the Apollo Neuro. So, there is a psychiatrist in Pittsburgh who developed it. It looks like the Whoop kind of, it's a wearable. And, you put it on for an hour a day, 90 days in a row minimum, and they have science showing rewiring of brain circuitry back into balance of parasympathetic and sympathetic, which is Pretty dramatic. And you don't have to do anything. He researched the power of touch because these veterans he was taking care of were so bad they couldn't be touched. So he started researching, well, what happens with a hug or touch? How can I get that to these veterans without them having to have it be human touch? And he found that if they wore this device and it vibrates, he could isolate which emotions for which vibration. Went to the brain and calmed the vagus nerve. So I've had pretty dramatic results with patients. A lot of my hypersensitive patients, a lot of patients who have had issues and symptoms for a long time that aren't responding as well as other patients, after about 3 months, their system is healing enough that things we were trying before— we weren't necessarily trying the wrong thing, it just was that the cell membrane was stiff, it couldn't respond, the receptors weren't responding. Once we calm the system down and then we put people on this phospholipid blend, after 3, 4 months in, they were able to tolerate a lot of other therapies. Like, their hormones worked better, their thyroid supplementation worked better, their supplements worked better. They had tolerance for stress. And I think one other point that's really important to make right now, and you asked for 3 things, so I'd say, The Apollo or other devices for the vagal nerve, phospholipids to heal the cell membrane when it's in this cell danger phase. I mean, the third is probably finding— this is a broad one, but it's finding some type of spiritual practice, whatever that should be for you. If it's If it's meditating, if it's studying, whether it's, you know, anything, any kind of spiritual system, if it's prayer for you, whatever it is, putting that into where you're taking some time to go inside every single day and just get out of this crazy world that's trying to get our attention. Our attention is our most valuable currency. So I can't stress that part enough.

That goes, goes into my next question, which was I wanted to hear 3 ancestral practices that might Uh, in your judgment, be the biggest movers. So before going to that, if we touch on the kind of spiritual or meditative practice, are there modern apps you recommend for that might help people?

Yeah, there's a couple systems. So there's a, there's an online program called Primal Trust that will walk people through ways to really work their nervous system. It's a 15 minutes a day kind of commitment. I've had a lot of patients have success with that. I'd say anything from the Calm app to just going on YouTube and type searching guided meditation. I will say that every person I see has a different desire in terms of the tone of voice or what the person's saying. But when they say, I can't calm down, I can't meditate, I don't know how to meditate, can you push play on a YouTube video and just breathe? You know, I, that's, I just will start as basic as possible. Give them the empowerment to go and search which one they like. Some people like apps like the Calm app, and some people get tired of the same one. There's also a device called BrainTap, which has, you know, a couple thousand different types of meditations, and that one brings light into the brain through your ears and behind your eyes. There's a visor that, that kind of dances, and they have clinical research showing rewiring of brain circuitry after 90 days, 15 minutes, once or twice a day as well. So I think It's an exciting time from a tech perspective that there are these tools out there that we, you know, we didn't have before. And, you're absolutely right, the average person can't even drive in their car without being on the phone, you know, hearing music, listening to a podcast. So, we feel like we have to stay busy, which is in a lot of ways the opposite of what we need to be doing.

So, what are 3 ancestral practices that don't require any tools that you would love to support, you know, listeners in doing more of?

Yes. Well, I would say the get up, trying to really control your mornings where if you wake up, if you can get exposed to the sun as it's rising, that is incredibly powerful. Just putting your feet in the earth, letting the sun get in your eyes without staring right at it. But if you can do that every day for 5 or 10 minutes, it will reset circadian rhythm. There's a lot of research coming out now on how our mitochondria actually have clocks on them. This is some very new research out of the lab in San Diego that I work with on mitochondrial medicine. And, they are finding that it's not just the morning exposure, but if you can get out in the morning, that's number one. Number two, periodically exposing yourself to the sun because your body knows what time it is. Which is wild to think that. And it wants to know what time it is. It doesn't want to be under blue light in a constrained manner. So probably number one, grounding and getting early morning sun. Number 2, telling your body throughout the day what time it is. Number 3, I like to just describe in general how our mitochondria and our chloroplasts, which are the energy part of Plants look exactly the same. So, if you ever look up a picture— when my daughter was studying, had me quiz her one time and she was in 8th grade and she said, will you quiz me for my test? And, I said, please don't be history. Please don't be history. And, she said, no, it's science. It's mitochondria. I was like, yes. So, she gives me the packet and the whole first 10 pages were about a leaf. And I remember just saying, you told me this was mitochondria. Why is this all the plant? And she looked at me and said, they're exactly the same, Mom. What are you talking about? And then you look at the picture and they do. They look exactly the same. So the point being, when you're trying to figure out how to take care of yourself, just remember we're very similar anatomically to plants. So what do plants like? They need the right sun exposure. They need to be hydrated. They need to be connected to the earth. And they also are sensitive to what you're saying to them. There's certain plant whisperer type people. So what are your internal thoughts? You know, these are all things that don't require any tech at all. And we can make big moves in the needle and in our health when we really kind of keep them up front and act on it.

I love that. You're reminding me of those, you know, grade school science experiments where you play, you know, classical music for the plant and you do the whole testing to see, does the one with the classical music, you know, thrive more so than the one that has, you know, punk rock or something like that. What would you say to the person that wants to become the CEO of their health this week specifically? You know, they, they listen to you, they, they value what you're saying, and they're like, okay, I'm ready. What is the first small decision they can take right now?

I would say it is setting aside 5 to 10 minutes. And in that 5 to 10 minutes, whatever they're capable of doing. And so I can't stress enough how self-judgment and self-gaslighting can block people. I can't do this. I always fail when I try to meditate. I just might as well give up. I started eating badly again, or now I drank again. I was trying to quit working on, on That self-talk is probably number one. So take the 5 to 10 minutes and whatever you can do. If it's, okay, I can go outside and put my feet in the earth today, or I can sit with a journal, and I have a special way that I tell people to journal that I'm happy to share. Or if it's, I'm gonna hydrate, just pick one thing that doesn't sound overwhelming to you. It does tend to build on each other. As soon as you try one thing, you start feeling a little bit better. Then you want to do more. You get excited. And remembering the whole time that we're in a culture where we've been trained to do fast everything fast, fast food, fast you know fast results, keep up with the Joneses, all that. And that a lot of times. It's not even our surroundings that are making us do that. It's our own inner thoughts. And if we can just pause, slow things down, things become clear as to what the next best step is.

I love that. I, you know, I just started journaling again after probably a 10 or 15-year hiatus. So what are your tips for journaling?

One of my favorites, I have patients get like an old-fashioned spiral notebook, and I have them at night write down as if Everything's perfect. So you're inviting in for your sleep, you know, I'm healthy, I'm abundant, I have true love, I eat well, take care of my body. And it may not quite be there yet, but just inviting it in, that type of energy of your higher self. And then in the morning, when they wake up, I'll have them just barf out whatever needs to come out. I'm sick of this. I woke up, I'm still in the same house. I, you know, I can't stand my job. Whatever they need to say. But then those pages of purging, I have them rip out, rip up and throw away. So it's just a movement process where also if your partner finds your notebook, it's all happy things and, and, and you've torn out the stuff that, that's not so good. But it's, it's making space and inviting in and it's honoring that you're having real negative thoughts and that's okay. We're gonna be working through them and this is what we're trying to bring in instead.

What's your process been for your thoughts as even this most recent episode occurred? I have to imagine you're being tested, uh, with specifically that inner dialogue, right? Uh, or are you just like resolved and like, oh no, I'm going to get through this. What is Lisa's process inside around that?

When they first told me there was a tumor, the radiologist, my daughter was with me and brought us back and he just Pointed to this mass and said, "This is a tumor or a stroke." That's all he said. Just let it out there. And I had about 12 hours where I didn't know if it was cancer. I didn't know what was happening. And again, I was a little bit lucky because my brain was offline a bit with the symptoms I was having. But I just kind of went into again, like really? You know, I couldn't help but ask that. This is the best I've been doing. I just have a book coming out. I just moved into this big center. What do you want now? And that quickly shifted into, I'm going to be okay. I'm just going to go into surrender that the answers will come to me. In the study of Kabbalah, it's always, why is this in my movie? And things are happening for me. And I had been studying that for a couple of years more deeply prior to this diagnosis. So that really helped where It was whatever this purpose is, I'm along for the ride. I'm gonna, I'm gonna understand it. And I know as I keep gaining visibility with my message, and now I'm gonna have bigger platforms with my book, this must just be some other way to reach even more people that maybe wouldn't have listened before.

Do you feel tired with it all though, ever?

You know, surprisingly, I mean, sure, maybe bits and pieces of, I don't want to do this, like, I'm sick of this, there's got to be a better way to live. But I think I'm so driven by my dharma and my passion to, to help people navigate their health and become sovereign that I just, I have something that I call, that I play with, a structure that probably will help the listeners, having to do with the 4 energies. Masculine and feminine, the wounded masculine, divine masculine, divine feminine, and wounded feminine. I talk about it in my book, but it's like a speedometer and you wanna be straight up and down, kind of navigating between the divines. The premise is that it doesn't matter what gender you are, male or female, you're going to dance in all of these energies. And so the wounded masculine is the egoic, controlling, like narcissistic type pattern that a lot of our systems have. And in this culture, um, the wounded feminine is the blamey victim whiny type of energy that can be very, very toxic. And again, men go into that wounded feminine a lot, as do women into the egoic. As I've regained my power, I've noticed tipping into both at various times. So for sure, with the diagnosis, it went to a little bit of the victimy. The difference now with me is I can see it. So I'll like pull out of the experience. I can look down, kind of ask myself, my body, my higher knowing, like, okay, where am I operating from at this moment? And the divine feminine is the flowing, connected, empathic, innovative, intuitive. It comes very natural to a lot of women, but especially to me. The divine masculine is a little harder for most, which is a heroic action taker coming from love who gets things done. So knowing that I have to really make sure that I also get into that side in order to keep progressing. So when I see myself in victim, acknowledging it, trying not to judge myself, and then just, okay, how can I take a more Balance between these 2 divines' method of acting right now. And most of the time for me, it's getting up some salt bath. I mean, at least 4 or 5 times a week, I'm soaking in about this much salt, you know, a big, huge bag.

Medicine used to be homeopathic. Medicine used to be holistic. And a lot of people don't realize this, but it was the change in the medical systems that, you know, that was enforced by big tech, or not big tech, but Big Pharma. Yeah, Big Pharma. That changed how we looked at medicine. So I'm very encouraged and very excited that you're bringing back that energy of that medicine is, is not just science and what can be proven, but that there are energies that we cannot see, but we can feel if we get tapped into it, that can absolutely move healing. And clearly they are with you. I'm just floored by not only your life experience, but also your bravery, your passion for continuing to help others. But you, you truly are an inspiration to me. So thank you so much. I always ask, if you could wave a magic wand and bring back one ancestral practice, what would it be and why?

There's one that I've noticed even in our lifetimes that we did as kids that the kids aren't doing now. And it's basic humanity, if that's a word. Like, the kids don't smile at each other when they walk by each other. Have you noticed that?

Oh my gosh. I've never had anyone answer it like this. And you are so right. I mean, let's face it, not a lot of adults smile at each other when they walk by each other. Like, smiling in general, that connection with other humans is completely getting lost in, in modern society.

So that, that would be it for me because we are, we are a communal species. I see it. I was driving in this morning and I saw a woman and we have a pretty little lake pond thing right by my house. She's sitting and I was like, oh good, somebody's appreciating nature. And then I realized she had the AirPods in and she was on her phone. And I, and I just stopped and thought to myself, she can't hear the birds. She's not watching. There's turtles in that pond. That would be a minute where that connection probably would help her body so much. And instead she's got EMFs going in her brain.

So powerful. Can we please all commit to this week choosing instead of, you know, being plugged in with your earbuds or AirPods, with whatever it is, whether it's working out, walking down the street, whatever it is, you pick the one thing that you're zoning out with. And let's just this week choose to zone in and connect with somebody. So don't have the device in your head and just actually look at someone as they walk by. Look at that other person as they're walking out and smile and say hi or something. Just connect, even if it's for 30 seconds. I think that is an incredible lesson that Dr. Lisa coaches in.

I never thought anybody would really care about my story. So I think we're the first harshest judges. Like I said, that self-judgment, that self-gaslighting and manipulation that comes firsthand from just years of serving energy when we've been just serving everyone else and not ourselves necessarily. So being able to take that time, and I think that connecting to other humans and taking the 5 minutes to appreciate and connect to nature can really help you fill yourself with, with that feeling of, of peace and connection that helps self-love and helps get out those, those thoughts that tend to jump in too quickly.

You just overcame this tumor removal and you obviously still have to, you know, as you mentioned, you still have to deal with the ear and your, and, and your hearing. But what's the one lesson you are taking from it right now? Is, is it that connection? Like, what is it that you are gonna choose to do this week? Based off of your experiences?

I think for me it probably is more along the lines— you just kind of nailed it when you said, I hope you realize, because that's not always been the case. Women especially, some of my male patients too, but we're so sort of programmed to, to serve that very often we don't see ourselves for, for what we are. So that grace For myself, gratitude for my body. I constantly am just thinking the miracle that it is. People should be doing that every day, no matter big brain surgery or not. Like, just sitting listening to this, your body's doing so many beautiful things while it's enabling you to do that. Just listen. Like, everything from how your ear works down to your breath and things you don't have to think about. So probably gratitude.

And you're so right. I mean, even just the act of breathing is a miracle. And if we just take a moment just to acknowledge that we are all breathing and that that in itself is something that not everyone is getting opportunity. I mean, I just learned just the other day, a childhood friend of mine who not much older than myself died from a stroke just out of the blue. You know, so in this moment, I am breathing and he is not, you know, and that's, and that is a moment of gratitude. It's not, it's not meant to be like, oh, I'm better or anything like that. It's not ego-based. It's more of, as you said, it's just, it's just being grateful for what we are and what we have.

Yeah. And I have patients run a gratitude scan of their body. So this is something else the listeners could do every day is just take a minute, maybe before you fall asleep at night or right when you wake up. And start at your feet and just thank every aspect. So you can thank your toes for balance and your feet for being able to take steps forward in life and your legs for the muscles and the ability to run if you need to or want to and just move all the way up thinking all the organs and your extremities and just having gratitude. And that connection, I think we're going to understand And in my book, the way I structure things are this reclaim that we spent the most time talking about goes into healing, which has to do with detoxification and infections and your gut, into performance, which is mitochondrial optimization and all the hacks, into transcend, which is the unknown. So I think what's going to happen is as we start to understand quantum principles more and more, This conversation that you can have with your feet all the way up your body is going to be proven that, that by having this moment of, of gratitude and connection, whether it's with other humans or your own body, is changing things at the cellular level. We, we have enough science to know that that's happening, but I think we're gonna see. A lot more in the coming decade.

Well, and as I said, I think you're supporting the process and leading as a doctor who is open and interested in these other aspects. That's how we get these tests done, right? Is we get people in science interested and open to them. So, really appreciate you for not only what you've endured, but also how you turn that around and you turn it into a learning piece and/or a supportive piece for others. Wow. Lisa, I had been so excited to talk to you and you more than delivered. Um, just love you so much and I appreciate you. Please share how, if they are in the area, where can they go to your facility? How do they eventually get your book when it comes out? Like, where do they go to learn about you and connect with you?

So the practice is called Spectra Wellness. In Tampa, and we do destination along with locals. So people, wherever they are from, we're only about 5 minutes from the airport, and we have a lot of different programs that we do. So you can go on spectralwellness.com and find all the services. And then on all the socials, I'm Dr. Lisa Koch, and my book is called The Unwritten Prescription. So it's all the things that were never said, the science and soul answers to, to what you're seeking. And that's gonna, it's already available for presale, which is crazy because it's not out till December. The pub date is December 8th. So very, very excited. I'll be hopefully coming to specific towns, um, on a book tour at that point too.

Well, let us know how we can support and, um, we will do that. Uh, but thank you again for joining us on Everyday Ancestral. And thank you all for listening wherever you did watch or listen. I hope you were able to take something from this episode. That's it for today. Just remember gratitude, breath, and most of all, stay curious. Be well. Thank you so much for joining me on Everyday Ancestral. If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe so you don't miss the next one. You could find the show notes, links, and resources mentioned at eatplantbaseddiet.com. That's e-a-t-p-l-u-c-k.com. And hey, if you know someone who'd get something out of this, share it with them too. Stay curious, live well, and keep it ancestral.