Healthy Living Simple, Ep 057 - James Barry on Adding Organ Meats to Your Diet… Made Simple

Foreign. Welcome back to the show. I am super excited for my guest here today. I have James Berry, who is the founder of Pluck Organ Based Seasoning. So we're going to have an amazing conversation today all about organ meats. And I also want to know how in the world you ended up getting into this. I can probably assume, but I want to know your story. So fill us all in as to how you ended up deciding to do this, this product.

Absolutely. Well, thanks for having me, Dr. Lisa. It's such a pleasure. So I've been a chef for over 16 years. I started loving food at like 7. I became a professional chef and I think I was in my 30s. It was like 2004 and. And so. But my pursuit of food and how I cook and why I cook is really about how do I help people get healthy. Because I recognize that we all just kind of gravitate towards our addictive, like, qualities like, you know, like towards sweets, towards comfort foods. And the majority of those things are just not healthy. So I've been really kind of on that search and I think it was becoming a father that inspired me to really continue to think, how can I get nutri dense foods into my daughters or into my family? And. And really it starts with, well, you got to identify what is a nutrient dense food. And of course, you know, I think you can identify. It's like you look at the way people market what's nutrient dense. That's not necessarily nutrient dense.

So true.

Right? It's like I call that the, the illusion of health. You know, it's like, it's so important. I always tell people, like, when you're at the grocery store, don't fall asleep at the cartoon. Because if you fall asleep in a car, what happens is you look at the front of the label of the product and that says something and then emphasizes something. It's marketing. They don't legally have to tell you what's on the product on the front. The front is all about marketing, catching your eye. The back is the legal part. The back is where they have to actually identify what this is, the truth of what's in it. And so I'm always just about like, how do you get. First let's identify what the nutrient dense foods are and then how do we easily get it into the diet. And at one point, now I did not grow up eating organ meats. So it's not like I come from this, you know, hearth like this, this farm. You know, I grew up on a farm and we ate like, you know, The Weston A. Price style. You know, my entire life, it's like, I came to this later, I came to this from culinary school. And, and so for me it's about, okay, well, how, how do I get this whole food into my diet, but easily and in a way that doesn't require a new habit. Because, you know, I think when we require new habits, we fail or it doesn't stick. And I, and I want health to stick. I want, I want it to be sustainable, not just this, you know, fad. And so I identified organ meats. Organ meats are Mother Nature's multivitamin. They're the most nutrient dense food on the planet. It's bioavailable, it's easily absorbed. And I was like, ok, organ meats. But no one's eating them, right? No one's eating them, no one knows how to cook them, no one knows where to buy them. You know, I mean, like, no one knows how to source them. And so it's like, so how do I do this? And I, and, and then it was like, okay, well, organ meat supplements already exist. And I know they're getting. The quality of those are mostly coming from New Zealand, which is really clean sources. I said, well, why can't I just get that and then add spices and herbs to it to make it taste better? And that's kind of where it all came. And I'm happy to report that I think I've succeeded. I mean, we launched in January of last year and the feedback has been phenomenal. I mean, people are saying like, oh my gosh, I don't get a gag reflex when I, when I eat. I usually get a gag reflex when I eat organs. I don't get that with your product. My kids love it. I'm putting in all my food. I feel great, you know, So I think we succeeded.

I love it. And I think I see it so often with parents. It is. And like, you had just said you wanted to figure out how to get nutrient dense food for your kids. And you know, I saw it with my sister when all of a sudden she realized, I'm growing a baby. What, what toxins am I exposed to on a daily basis that I kind of dealt with and then all of a sudden it cleans it up, right? Like that though, that's. That turning point is when we've got little people that we're figuring that stuff out for. And I love that you've made it simple because that's the whole, the whole thing about our podcast here is how to make healthy Living Simple. Because when we go in, because I've seen it for 20 years in my practice, where patients will walk in and say, I'm going to do X, Y and Z and ABC and all of this, and I'm going to do it next week. And they fail at it all. And then they come back and they're like, you know, I tried that once, you know, hey, I tried organ meats. I can't do that. Like, no, you've made it simple, you've made it sustainable. So let's really. I told you, right? Like, right before we hit record, I've been using a supplement line in my practice for days. You know, the 20 years that I've been in practice, it's been around for. It was actually the world's first multivitamin, but it literally has bovine, you know, organs in it. And it has been this explanation for the last 20 years of my practice as to why we're giving them a multivitamin with a bunch of organ meats. And people would just freak out. But this is the best time period now, because with Carnivore, with everything else, everybody understands the importance of organ meats. But if we don't, let's just go back to the basics. Let's talk what exactly what are you considering? Organ meats?

Yeah, I think it's such a great question because we are. So we assume organ meats is like the liver, the kidney, the heart. Those are the three common answers to organ meats. But organ meats, we need to remember organ meats. The other name is Awful, which is, you know, not the best name, but it refers. So it's offal and it refers to. They think the name came from, when you're butchering an animal, the parts of the animal that are falling off. So that's where they think Awful comes from. And really what Awful is, is it's. It's ultimately everything in the animal except the muscle meat and the bone. So bone marrow is awful, but not bone. And if you think about so. So awful can mean like. So I mentioned liver, kidney, heart. Those are the common ones. But the less common that people are not eating as much because I think it's also an issue of sourcing. But, you know, you have the spleen, the lungs, the testicles, the ovaries, the brain. Brain is supposedly amazing, but so hard to get. The thymus and pancreas, which are known as sweet breads. Bone marrow, as I mentioned, tongue, lips, ears, skin, tail, blood. The blood shows up in other countries. It shows up in like, you know, Ireland and the blood sausage or what they call black pudding. Stomach lining is known as tripe. So whenever you hear someone say, oh, I put tripe in this, that's stomach lining. Feet, chicken feeder. If you ever make bone broth. Chicken feet are amazing for bone broth. Another name that you hear for pig feet is trotters. And then intestines. And intestines actually show up in Southern food. If anyone's ever had chitlins. Chitlins. They use the pig intestine for chitlins, which is actually really interesting because organ meats have quite the history. You know, if you think about it, our answer, our ancestors ate it. And when I say ancestors, people. People immediately think I'm talking about Paleolithic ancestor. No, I'm talking about our grandparents.

Yes.

Our parents, depending on our age. Like, I'm not talking that long ago. And they ate it. You know, you talk to. I know. I talked to my mom, and she says, oh, yeah, we had liver and onions constantly. And I loved it. And I remember she would tell me she grew up in Brooklyn, New York, and when they went to get, like, a chicken, they would go to the poultry shop and the chickens would be alive, and they would literally pick out which one they want and then come back an hour or two later, and it would be a warm carcass. They just plucked it, killed it, everything, right then and there. And I was like, oh, my God, they were so much more in touch. And this is not. She's. She's like 76, so she's not that old, you know, I mean, so it's like just that far back. And she. They were already still so much more in touch with where did their food come from. Now we just. It's. It's. It's. It's at an arm's distance, you know, it's covered in plastic or something. And you don't really know, well, what part of the animal is this? Or what am I eating? Or, you know, even. Even, like the full. The whole. Like, just focusing on chicken. The whole carcass is rarely even bought nowadays. It's pieces of it and it's skin to debone. And it's just. It's not really. You're not connecting this. What this is. And so I think it's interesting because in America, we are not eating organ meats the way the rest of the country or world is. And we're Also something like 92% of Americans are nutrient deficient, but yet we're not calorie deficient. Right.

No, absolutely not.

We have an obesity epidemic. You know what I mean? So, so we're eating food, but we're not getting calorie rich food. And that says everything to me. Everything.

And I think that so much. I don't know when you grew up, but I was, I'm a kid of the 80s, right? And I remember my mom like cooking liver and it's that smell like, you know, like when you're cooking, it was that instantaneous, like, oh my gosh, I know mom has liver on for tonight and I just don't want that. But that wasn't, I mean, I'm going to date myself, but that wasn't that long ago. I don't feel like. But so we know like 70s and 80s we were doing it. And then I'm trying to figure out like, why did we as America go so far astray, but of what happened in the 90s was that low fat diet, right? Like that's, we can go into the food guide pyramid. And cholesterol, right? Cholesterol, we can't do those things. But it is, it's. I even think of, you know, I'm Polish and so my parents and my grandparents would always make Polish kielbasa. And that casing, right, that's intestine. So I would always be like, this is. So why do we have to do this?

Oh, Scotland's got haggis, which is sheep calf heart, sheep or calf heart, liver and lungs mixed together with suet and, and oatmeal. And then in other season and it's boiled in the stomach of the animal. I mean you just, it's like every Mexico has menudo, which is, which is beef stomach. I mean, you know, every other country's got something. And I was mentioning chitlings. So chitlings is interesting because back in the day it's really a slave food because back in the day the plantation owners would, would slaughter a hog and they would keep the muscle meat that the, the best part of the, you know, I'm putting quotation marks in the air as though the muscle meat's the best part. But actually historically it's not. But they, they would say it's the best part and then they would give the slaves the intestines and the parts of the animal that they didn't want to eat. And that's where chitlins comes from. So I really do believe actually to a degree that we lost favor with organ meats because of the economy and socioeconomic bigotry and whatnot. All these different Things, because basically people, when, when after World War II, you had a lot of families, now you had two people in the household working. So before World War II you had. It was mostly just the male, male person working. Then during World War II, when the male was in the war, women started working. It was huge liberation for women. And, and so then when they came back, the women were like, I don't want to stop working. Good for them. Which is they should have, they should have been working way before that. But, but now you have two people in the household working. You have, for most households, you have more income coming in. So it was like, oh, well, we're making more money, we should, we deserve the more expensive cuts the animal. But no one was connecting that to nutrition. It was more about the price. Like, oh, we, we deserve this. We, we can now afford this. And so we're going to step into this. And, and the reality is, is anyone wanting to save money, buy organs, they're cheaper. They're cheaper than Muslim and they're better for you.

And especially back in the day, I mean, they always said, you know, it's like the heart to help heal the heart. It's the adrenals to help heal the adrenals.

Like, yes, like supports, like. Yep. Which makes sense if you think about it. Like, because organs are designed to support, like. So a lot of people think like the liver and the kidney are, we all know that they're filtrations, they're filter systems, but they think that that's where the toxins store. And that's actually not. They're not designed to store toxins. They're designed to break down toxins so that the toxins leave your body. So they support the toxins to becoming water soluble, so they can leave through your pee, your poop or your sweat. Right. Because those are detoxification pathways. And of course, in an unhealthy animal and human too, when I say animal, humans are animals. Right. So in an unhealthy human or animal, then that detoxification pathways aren't as open. And so, yes, that is where you want to really think about quality. Because then in those circumstances, in an unhealthy person, you have the organ, the liver, whatever organ it is, liver, kidney, that may not be working proper, properly, but normally toxins are stored in fat or they leave your body. And so if you think about it, the organ has all those nutrients and vitamins because it is designed to, you know, to, to change, to get those toxins out of your body. So it has this plethora. Of nutrients to do that. And so it makes sense that those nutrients, if you eat a liver, it's going to support your liver because it has the nutrients that your liver has. Well, you know, same with the heart. Coenzyme Q10 is in the heart. It's the one organ that has that. And that's also what, you know, that's in bovine, that's in sheep, that's, you know, it's in other animals and it's in us. So when you eat that heart, it's probably going to support your heart. So I love that, the exchange of energy, the like supports, like, it's an ancestral concept. But I think we're already, we have to admit that, you know, our modern times are. We're now realizing, like when you look at agricultural systems, that the regenerative agriculture, for example, is more conducive towards a healthy planet than what we've been doing. Well, guess who did regenerative agriculture? Native Americans. We just, we decimated that culture. We decimated those people. But yet we're now learning that actually these ancient, these ancestral ways are the way we should have been doing it. And if we don't go back to those, we could end up destroying our society.

Oh, absolutely. Look at what's happening with the bees and everything else right now and what's going to, you know, like, I just, it is, it's one of those things I think we need to realize where people oftentimes will look at somebody like you and me and how we're eating and all of that, and they're like, oh, it's so high maintenance, so much to do, but it really isn't. And so like you said, you've made it simple, but it's also, this is so sustainable and it's something we need to do just not to. For our own. Yeah, absolutely. You're absolutely right.

And I really do want to connect to. Like, you know, I mentioned the deficiency that's going on, the 92%. That's just what they've measured. Right. And anytime there's any number out there, you need to know that it's higher because it, because whenever they do these, they only measure like a thousand people or whatever it is. And then they take that and they apply it to, to entire society and they assume that that's got to be 92%, but you have to assume that it's always going to be higher than whatever they say. So I, my guess is that it's probably more like 99.9% of people in America are nutrient deficient. And I correlate that with, well, okay, we're not eating nose to tail. And yet our ancestors did. And so I have to connect that. Like, it's not about finding a new magic pill. It's not about figuring out in the laboratory how to isolate something to then get in our diet. You know, I really do believe it's about. No, we got to go back to these ancestral foods, whole foods, where they're properly raised, they're humanely treated, the conditions are, you know, are conducive towards health. Get back to eating that nose, to tail, that variety, the variety of that animal and move away from this kind of like very structured, very bland, very uni, you know, one way, very nutrient void.

Like everything out of a box or a can is like literally just hardly any nutrients. You're just. It's sustenance is all it is.

Yeah. So it's not working. It's not working.

No, it's not working. We're the fattest we've ever been as a country. We're the sickest we've ever been. Right. We're on the most meds in the whole world, but we've got a supposedly world class healthcare system. It's so. Yeah, there's so much. I really, I say it all the time on this podcast is we've got to follow the money. And obviously I'm a chiropractor, right? So I have figured this one out a long time ago. There is no money in healthy people. They will pay for, you know, a half a million dollar back surgery over 30, 50 bucks to the chiropractor. So anyways, whole nother story, let's talk about the sourcing of animals because like you had just said, and I'm even that person that I've said it in the past. Like I remember waitressing at the country club years ago and they were eating all had liver and they're like, oh, this is so great. Don't you want someone? I was like, I know what the liver does, but this is also coming from a conventional cow. So I was like, not up for it. However, like you had just said, if it's a healthy animal. So what are your qualities for a healthy animal? What is something that we're looking for?

Yeah, so. So I would say, you know, the qualities are the animal that's aligned with nature. So animals are rudiment. You know, they're herbivores, are ruminant animals. They, they will eat grass and they eat agriculture. Like they use land that actually is not really conducive towards growing mono crops or anything like that. So, so animals really, when you look at a regenerative farm, I mean, the animals are part of the process, they are contributing to the entire whole and they have to be grass fed to do that. And one myth is that people don't realize is that all cows, because when we say bovine, we're saying cow, that refers to a cow. But all cows are grass fed. They're just not all grass finished. So it's really important that you distinguish when you're looking for that quality of grass fed and grass finished. Pastured doesn't necessarily mean so. So there's a few different terms and none of them are regulated. So there's grass fed, there's then grass fed, grass finished, which is 100% grass fed, and then there's pastured. So a cow can be grass fed, but not necessarily on a pasture. So pasture refers to, they're not, you know, enclosed that they're allowed to roam, to eat. And so you really want to look for all of those, those qualities. But, but here's the thing that, that I have been given some thought to is if you look at the rest of the world, like China, for example, China eats an amazing amount of organ meats. And if you ever go to like an Asian market, it's not necessarily, you don't go there and go like, oh, this is grass fed. It's not like the quality. They don't put an emphasis on that quality or how the animal is being raised or what it's being fed, but they do put a, put an emphasis on eating nose to tail. And so it makes me wonder if so much of the world is in. Mexico is also one that eats very much nose to tail. But if so much of the rest of the world is putting more focus on just eating nose to tail and less on the quality. While I do support the quality of what we're talking about, I sometimes now wonder, is getting the organization more important than the quality? So, and what I mean by that is China has got a huge population, much larger than us, and for the most part they're a lot healthier than us, right? And they're eating nose to tail, not focusing on the quality. We're not eating nose to tail. And sometimes when we only focus on the quality, then we're limiting the amount of people that can eat it because it can be so expensive, it can be hard to find. You know what I mean? So I'm more and more trying to kind of put out that message of like, yes, okay, if you have a choice, look for this quality. But if you don't have a choice. And the, and the choice is I either eat an organ or I don't, I say eat the organ. And that's, I know that that's not necessarily popular, popular opinion, but I think it's similar to fish. You know, you remember when fish was kind of becoming a focused product and it was like, oh, the mercury in the fish. And, and it became like, oh, everyone's stopping eating fish. It's like, no, no, no. And then they were like, no, no, no. Eating fish is important. So if you, if you, if it's about, if you're concerned about mercury, it's better to get the fish in than to not eat it. And I say the same thing with organs, personally.

And I'm curious, this is, as you said, this. I'm wondering. We know obviously in the United States we're pumping our cows full of estrogen. Right. And growth hormone and everything else.

And antibiotics.

Yeah, right. And I know it's not practiced in a lot of countries overseas. I'm curious, like, I don't know anything about China, so I'm curious if they do that or not. And so if it's not there either, like, I think that's a big component of it. When we have antibiotics, the growth hormones, the estrogens, they're going to really, they're going to plump up, they're going to get big. They're being fed, you know, corn to be big. And then they're storing all those toxins and their fat. So, you know, maybe that's also part of it is they might be doing all their nose to tail, but they're also not pumping their animals full of a bunch of other stuff.

It's totally possible. And I'm not, I don't, I don't know how they raise their animals either. I, I do know certain countries, like Switzerland, you know, they, they raise their animals so clean. Right. You know, so certain countries really do have a much better method. I'm just not sure about China. But, but yeah, I, I think you're right. I mean, I think, I think it's very possible that they have different regulations than us. But I, I still, my biggest concern with health in general is I never want health to be a wealthy person's option. Like, I really, I'm kind of on a mission to make sure that we really make health obtainable for everyone because it is based on your wallet. You know, and the other question, you know, Ultimately, I think we all have to ask is once again, what is healthy? I mean, I think we get on these trends, these diets, and maybe you'll identify with this. But like, you know, I've been in the field, as I mentioned, for over 16 years. And as a. I started as a private chef. And so I, my job was to understand what were the diets out there and how do I cook for these diets and do it really well because I was getting, you know, I was with, I was working for celebrities, I was working for tons of people, and they were all just following whatever the trend of the diet was. When I first started, the trending diet was the fat flesh diet. So I had to learn everything. I had to learn all of it. And I would be a guinea pig on myself. I think I did the master cleanse. I mean, I had to understand all these different things. And what ultimately I came, came to is that one, that's why I focus on whole foods, because whole foods aren't a trend. But two, I, I quickly realized that, that basically, gosh, I kind of just lost my thought with it. Sorry. But, but I, I just quickly learned to identify like, like that a lot. Oh, I know what I was going to say. So I quickly learned to identify that a lot of these trends are just simply trends. So like now we have like, keto is really popular, right? And what happens when these diets come out? What's the very first products that just get blown out like that hit the market, right?

They start doing all like. And this is because I'm a huge keto person. However, I'm always that person that says, I don't want all the keto ice foods, right?

Like, it's the desserts. It's desserts. It's always like these new diets, whenever they hit the market is the very first thing that gets pumped out to everybody was like, how can you still get your addictive foods but within the confines of this diet, Right? To me, that's just like, it's just not a solution. It's like we're just continuing to pass. It's kind of like the way we keep having the same conversation about abortions and versus life and, and, or whatever else of certain voting rights, you know, these same conversations, like, no, this is not a woman's body, is her body. You know, I mean, stop these discussions. Yes, we don't want to have abortion, but, but you still deserve the right to choose. It's your body. You know, I mean, there's certain discussions that just should not be on the table anymore. And I believe it's the same as around diets. Like why are we still trying to fit sugary items even though they're zero calorie into our diets? And so I just, I know I'm kind of going off topic, but I just, I just, I look at trends and I just see that's the kind of stuff I see is that it's this false portrayal of what's health, what healthy is.

And the fact is we need to be able to get the sugar out of our diet because a, it's an addictive substance. And so the fact is if you, we are constantly, you know, getting the paleo treat or the keto treat or whatever it is, we're never getting the sugar out of the diet or the sweetness out of our diet. And therefore we're always constantly craving it and we're in that horrible cycle that we just can't ever get out of. So it is going back to nature, going back. As you know, I'm a very much like, let's look at how our ancestors lived. Were they in keto all the time? No, they were not in ketosis all the time. It was in adaptative state. So they go in and out. And so that's what I'm a huge fan of, cyclical keto and all sorts of stuff like that. But here's the deal. If somebody is listening to this and they're like, okay, I get it now, most nutrient dense part of the animal, I probably need to start incorporating organ meats. How do I do this? Yeah, I know you've got a way to kind of stage into easing, easing into organ meats.

So I should probably finish. So the sourcing is we Talked about the 100% grass fed, the pastured. But then where do you find that? And the reality is that feeds into the easing end. So you can definitely do a search online. There's US Wellness Meats sells them. I mean there's so many. You do any search, just do a search for 100% grass fed organ meats or beef organ meats if you want. And tons of options will come up. Most of them will ship out. You can also go to your local market and see. Of course, farmers markets are a great option as well. Just talk to the farmer. A lot of times they don't bring the organs, all the organs to the market because they don't think they'll sell. But if you talk to them and say, hey, can I get the tongue, Can I get this? Can I Get that. They'll be able to sell it to you and most likely they'd be happy to sell to you. But when you're easing into organs, Pluck is actually the gateway. Like Pluck, the organ based seasoning that I created has five organs. It has liver, kidney, heart, spleen and pancreas. And it tastes good. And you don't need to know how to cook. You can put it on your to go food. If you're eating out right, you can literally sprinkle it on anything and it ups the nutrition of that thing. And now you're getting micro dosing of organ meats with frequent use equals the accumulative effect. So it's just a gateway. You can hide it in food, whatever, it doesn't matter. No one even needs to know what it is. You could just sprinkle it on things like salt and pepper.

An easy way for the kids.

Yeah, totally. So that to me, that's the gateway of getting organ meats. Because now you're starting to change your palate because pluck has got an umami, because organ meats have umami. And so starting to shift your palate and get you open and then try and organ meat. So gateway pluck. Then next step is, I would advise you buy a beef liver. But when you get that beef liver, it usually comes frozen. Keep it frozen and here's what you do. Then you take that beef liver out and let's say you're making some spaghetti sauce you're using, or hamburgers, anything with ground meat. And it doesn't necessarily have to just be beef. It could be lamb, it could even be turkey, it doesn't matter. Then just take your grater and grate that frozen liver. Grate like a tablespoon in it first and then up it to another tablespoon and keep it at like about 20 to 25% of whatever the ground mix is. So if you have a pound of ground meat, that's about a fourth of a cup of grated beef liver. So I find that if you go beyond that, the taste starts to come through, the texture changes. So our goal when you're easing into organ meats is to not have that happen. We don't want the taste to come through and we don't want the texture change because we don't want anyone to know. We don't want to. We don't want you to feel like you're sacrificing anything by getting organ meats into your diet. So that's step two. Step three is, well, I Should add with step two, there are some already pre ground meat combos. Like Forces of Force of Nature has a ancestral blend that already has liver and heart in it. So you can find those as well. And that's. That can sometimes be in a freezer aisle of your market. And that's called forces and force of Nature. But step three, then would be okay. You're now starting to get the taste for these organ meats. But now try it where it's not the main thing of the meal, but where it's got to. You're incorporating it. So what I recommend is you then step into doing like, tongue, beef tongue, or even a heart, chicken hearts. Like, you try an organ, but you're not keeping it in that shape. So what happens is when you cook a tongue, for example, you cook the tongue no different than you would like braise a meat. It's very identical. You could put it in your, your, your pressure cooker, your slow cooker, put it with some seasoning, add a little liquid, and it's like, it just. It just cooks just like any braised meat. But what happens is that tongue's got a sheath on it, and you just, it kind of starts to peel off after you've cooked it for about an hour. But you, you take out that sheath, and what's underneath is this meat that is extremely close to muscle meat. It really is basically a muscle. And you can then take that out, stick it in your oven under the broiler, crisp it up, have, you know, put some seasonings on it, crisp it up, and then it shreds just like carnitas, and then make beef tongue tacos. And so then to my point is, you don't really think about the fact I'm eating tongue. You're just like, oh, it looks like shredded beef. Yeah. You know, and you can do the same with chicken hearts. Not in terms of the cooking, but what you can do is chop them up really small and steep, stick them into the dish, and it will look like you have little mushrooms in it or something, diced mushrooms. And you won't think, I'm eating heart. But chicken hearts are so mild, and they take on the flavor of whatever you're using. So they're just an easy organ to assimilate. And the heart, as I said, is closer to muscle meat. So those are kind of like three steps to ease in. And then next step would be, okay, now front and center. Take the organ and make it front and center. Have like a liver and onions dish or something like that. But the Easing in will help to adapt your palate and your sensibility. Because we have to remember we're emotional eaters. You know, we're all food and psychology go are hand in hand. So you got to think about the fact, okay, we're not only deterred by the taste, but we're also deterred by touching it and the look of it and the texture of it. So any way that you can ease into all three of those, the taste, the look, the texture, is going to support your psychology around the food.

I love it. Those are so simple. I think I have a funny story to. You'll probably laugh with this, maybe not. Or just some of our listeners might be grossed out by it on Facebook. I'm watching because my friends, right, like we're all crunchy, holistic people. And so one of the girls is like trying to figure out how to get beef liver into my kids smoothies. So literally did a slice of raw beef liver, threw it in the smoothie. She's like, kids didn't tell, couldn't tell. So she's like, so I upped it the next day, still couldn't tell. And I'm sitting here thinking, oh my gosh, at one point kids knew what was in that smoothie right now. But I know so many of us have done that with our kids where it's like, well, maybe they won't know some spinaches in here, but raw beef liver I had left.

No, I mean, that's true. It's like there is, there is a ratio and that's kind of what it meant for me. I discovered it was around 20, 25%, but there really is a ratio. You can, you can do up to a certain amount. No one will even know. And I'm all about like, any organ is better than no organ. That's my whole philosophy. It's just we are missing these foods from our diet. They're incredibly nutrient rich. But what's also really key about that is they are bio available. And we cannot lose sight of that because all these packaged foods have synthetic vitamins. A lot of times it's not measured how much. So you don't know how much your body's getting, how much it's not getting. A lot of them are not even absorbable in your body, so they just get peed out. I mean, we're just, we're kind of being fooled into thinking we're getting these nutrient rich foods and they're just not. They're not at all.

I agree. And this is where I always tell My patients, because we use standard process. Right. And so it's coming from a farm in Wisconsin and then it's a bunch of cows.

Process is a great brand.

Yeah, I love them, Love them. But you know, the B vitamins, they're like. But my, my patients would be like, what, my urine's not bright yellow? I'm like, yeah, you need to realize that bright yellow is a byproduct of coal tar. And do you think your body knows what to do with that? You know, so I'm like, you know, versus you think of the nutrients you can actually get like B vitamins that are found in organ meats.

So off the charts. I mean, B12, of course, being one of the most dominant. But the, you know, if you think about it, you mentioned your pregnant mamas, right? Yeah. It's like if you look at prenatals. So science is telling us to use prenatals when. When you're trying to get pregnant and when you are pregnant. Right. Well, what's in a prenatal? Oh, it's vitamin B, it's vitamin A, it's vitamin B, it's folate, it's all, you know, the list goes on. You know, it's all the different, you know, C, D, E, K, iron, calcium, copper, magnesium, all these things. Right? But folate being a very big, big important one. And if you look at what's in a prenatal and then you look at what's in organ meat, it's like, oh, wait, organ meat has all of it, plus more. So it's like, isn't that interesting that the thing science is saying is going to help you create life is already in organ meat?

And it only makes sense, right? Like we're here trying to reinvent the wheel and it's like, wait a minute. Like, I think whoever created us actually knew what they were doing. And the other thing, I want to make a comment because so often now we hear the MTHFR defects so much and that has to do with the folate and folic acid. And if our bodies, because so many of us have this genetic defect and we can't synthesize that or not or break it down properly. So unfortunately, when women are loading up on some of those, it's not. It can't be so beneficial if they happen to have one of the MTHFR genes. So it's going to be so much easier to get the nutrients from an actual whole food source because your body knows what to do with that versus the coal tar. Right. That I had just said. So especially when you said that about the prenatals, I'm like, oh, this is a big one. Because we up our vitamins a ton when we're pregnant ladies. Right. And if there is, if we have not tested for an MTHFR defect, we've had people on the podcast where they've talked about this, where they, the woman continued to miscarry and couldn't figure out why. And it was because of all of these excess, the B vitamins they were doing that they couldn't methylate, they couldn't, they couldn't break down.

So yeah, I imagine then the question comes up is like, hey, if you're eating organs, should you be taking a prenatal? And what do you usually tell your.

You know, if we're going to do something like that, we're going to be doing a whole food prenatal. And you know what I mean? And I look at standard process. They don't have a straight up prenatal, but we're going to look at individual. Catalan was the world's first multivitamin. Right. Like we can go through all of that. And so often I have a conversation all the time where people are saying, but on the side, it's not saying like, you know, the thousand percent of the RDA value. And I'm like, right. But again, when it's synthesized in a lab, when it's made in a lab, we can have those numbers. When you're grabbing it from the farm, it's not going to be that high. But your body knows what to do with it a lot easier.

Yeah, I think it's such an important distinction because, you know, you hear a lot when, when people talk about beef livers, the fear of getting too much vitamin A, for example.

Yeah.

And that is the important distinction is when it's coming from a whole food source, your body can either assimilate it or get rid of it, process it. It knows what to do with it. It's when it's synthetic, your body doesn't.

Know what to do, has no idea.

Yeah. And you can get, you can enter into a danger zone and of getting too much. So it's a non issue. When you eat it, you get it from a whole food source.

And I really think like, how much liver would you have to eat to get to that point? Because people are typically so deficient. Any. And you know what I mean? Like, I don't think we're going to be eating liver three times a day for the next 30 years. Like maybe then we're going to be looking at it that way. So I think, yeah, I 100% agree with you.

And I find that, you know, our skills of intuitive eating are real. Like, we do innately have the ability to intuitively. We've just lost touch with it. But similar to when you lick salt, like sea salt, for example, you can test this. This theory, which is you take some assault, your body starts going, oh, I want this. I want this. But then at one point, it says, no, I'm done. And it's so clear. You just. At one point, you cannot do any more salt. It's like, it will taste bad, right? And the same thing happens with organ meats. If you. If you start eating liver, and it's like your body's like, oh, this is so good. I want more and more and more. Your body will tell you, you're good, you're good. Don't need anymore.

That's exactly it. Like the element electrolyte caps that I use. You know, there's a day I'll be like, okay, one, I'm fine. The next day I'm like, I think I need more. And then you reach that point halfway through your drink. You're like, you all right there? This is salt. I am done. But it is. It's intuitive that way. And I like how you said that, because oftentimes I hate when people are like, I intuitively I wanted an Oreo today. And I'm like, no, that's just stupid.

No, that's. Yeah, that's. That's. That.

That's an addiction.

Yeah, that's addiction. And. Or, like, you're probably deficient in something and you're just craving sugar because you're not getting enough fat. You know, there's something else, but. Totally.

Right.

Or it's marketing. It's marketing influence psychosis. I mean, there's so many different things. It could be when you're craving something that's not found in nature, then, yeah, there's. There's something else on going on.

I agree. 100 parasites, Candida, all sorts of stuff.

Totally, totally. It could be so many things.

All right, James, tell them where they can find you. And I know we have a coupon code for them, too, but. Yeah.

So Pluck is available@eatpluck.com and I'm sure you'll post your.

We'll put the coupon code. It was Dr. Lisa.

Oh, yeah. Excellent. And. And. Yeah, give it a try. What's. What's really cool about Pluck is it's extremely versatile. So even though it's coming from a cow source, bovine source. You can put it on everything. I mean, we put it on fish. I tried it on oysters, and it's like amazing popcorn. My kids love it on popcorn. If you eat popcorn rice, people tell me it's great potatoes. It's so good on. I mean, like, it's just endless. It's just because it's really about that umami. It's like it's. You really. Don't you want to almost not think about it as an animal product? It's more of an umami product. And umami is really. It's the fifth taste. So we have sweet, sour, salty, and bitter. And umami is that fifth one. And what umami does, it's kind of. It's savory, it's kind of meaty, but it makes the other four unique tastes even better. So it actually, when you. When you put pluck on other foods, it actually makes the food taste better. So you'll just be prepared if you start using it, that you may start getting lots of compliments on your cook cooking. If you want those, use it.

Awesome. I love it. And this is the best way to, like, help. Help all of our diets improve and especially our children. So thank you so much for your time today. I appreciate it.

Thank you for having me and thank you for pushing organ meats. I so appreciate what you do.

Absolutely.