How a 10-Week Sabbatical and Shark Tank Burnout Rewired Our Family Forever with Margaret Barry

Welcome back to Everyday Ancestral. What a year it has been. We are closing 2025 and per usual, well, this is really only the second time, but still, this is how we're doing it. Per usual, I have my lovely wife and guest, Margaret Floyd Berry, to help me wrap up 2025. together. How are you doing, my dear?

I'm doing great, thanks. How are you doing?

Oh geez, what a year, right? What a year it has been. And it's interesting because you would think that the previous year where we were revealing, like, all those things you had gone through, from the 50-mile run to the cancer scare to your knee, that that would be a revolutionary year. And it was, But this year feels like there was so much internal, deep, sticky growth that happened that is just, in my judgment, just pounding out of the body and just emanating as it leads us into '26. What does it feel like to you?

It feels like there has been an internal rewiring. I always have a mission, and people might have heard me say, I always wanna be unrecognizable a year from now. I wanna look back and not even like, who even was that? But normally it has been these big external accomplishments. And it's not to say that those haven't happened in 2025, but I feel like for me, and I actually see this in you as well, it feels like there's actually internal rewiring happening at a very— core level that means that who we are stepping into this next year is really, truly, totally different than what came before. It's always a building upon and accumulation of growth, but I think this time for both of us, it has been— and in fact, I would say for our whole family, It's been like this internal repatterning.

Yeah, yeah, repatterning for sure. Yeah, and it's interesting to your point, like the previous year was a lot of outward stuff, like a lot of very, you know, physical, um, you know, your knee, um, the cancer, like it was on your skin, it was outside of your body, right? And this year really has been just deep, deep internal stuff. Um, One thing though, I really want to touch base about because I think it revealed so much and it's actually really applicable to my podcast, The Everyday Ancestral. Like that it's, that what we experienced from what we're about to share in terms of you taking a sabbatical, a 10-week sabbatical, not only deepened your own personal experience and awareness of what you need and what drives you. Right. But as a family, it shifted. And I think it speaks a lot to traditional roles.

Yeah.

So I'd love to dive into that. Would you just share what you did? Because you guys have to know, I just have to set this up. Margaret and I are both entrepreneurs. We're also both kind of workaholics. We like to work and dig into it and get stuff done. And Margaret is the queen of getting Like, she surpasses most people I know in terms of being able to, like, create a list, not just a short list, but a long list, and, like, get it done. And it's sort of been in the 14, 15 years we've known each other, like, it's sort of like her thing to say, like, I finished my list today. Like, it's a big— like, she's felt like an accomplishment from, like, finishing her list. And then she decided to literally just burn it all down. Will you tell everyone what you did?

Yeah, absolutely. Well, exactly as you say, James, I've been the ultimate human doer, right? Like just in action and busyness and frankly in overwhelm and overdrive for a really, really long time. And I'm really good at hiding it. I would say not perhaps from you and from the family, but externally, I think most people wouldn't know that I was really close to burnout, if not like deeply in it. And we shared last year about some of these pretty intense things with the cancer scare and then my knee. And I think I even said then, I felt like, oh yeah, the universe was kind of taking me out at my knees, but I didn't actually slow down. I still did all the things and it didn't feel like it was possible to actually slow down. And what I needed to do was just fully step out of business matters, like my professional life that has been, I've been so career-focused since I was a kid. This is just, it never dawned on me me that I wouldn't, you know, I started working when I was 13 years old. I put myself through college with zero student loans. I, you know, I worked every summer, every weekend, all the way through university. I took a little bit of time off after, but even that, I was taking 3 months off with my back-then boyfriend on a climbing trip, which I cut short because I was like, ah, gotta get back to work. So I don't really know how to just be. And I got some pretty loud and clear messages earlier in this year, although not that much earlier. It was maybe like but just before the summer, like May, June, of like, you gotta slow it down, girl, or, you know, your body is gonna do it for you. And—

Well, your body— to be fair though, your body was giving you those messages all along.

Right.

You were just— they were just finally loud enough where you were like, okay, no, I have to do something. I am on the verge here. So you were just close to the cliff.

I think what it was is that I have been really good at just muscling through. I'm actually really, really good at that. And I actually worked very closely with my beloved coach, mentor, spiritual guide, Debra Joy. I'm not sure, I think she's actually—

She was on this podcast. She was on this podcast, so yeah.

And hard for me is to not push through. Hard for me is to surrender. And just, I was experiencing all these things, but I'm really good at overriding. I'm really good at compensating. And I would, over and over, push myself to collapse, and I would collapse for a couple of days, and then I would pick myself up and just keep going. And it got to the point where I was just too tired. I just couldn't keep doing that anymore. And this is also the age at which my mom's health tanked. So, my mom—

Yeah, your mom, will you share what your mom had just so we give that context?

Yeah, my mom, right at this age, was diagnosed with 3 very intense autoimmune diseases. She had rheumatoid arthritis, Lupus, and pulmonary fibrosis, each of which in and of itself was, is devastating. The combination of the 3 was horrifying. She also had breast cancer along the way. I honestly can't even remember exactly when that came in. I think a little bit deeper into her journey, but that was, it was a thing, but it actually was less of a thing than the autoimmune diseases. And ultimately, she lived for 20 years or so after her diagnoses, but— It was a brutal existence. It was, there was so much pain, there was so much struggle. It was this constant process of surgeries and procedures and, you know, one step forward, 5 steps back, 2 steps forward, 3 steps back. And ultimately, you know, I always say, you know, on one hand, she was a medical miracle. I mean, the pulmonary fibrosis alone is a, it's a death sentence unless you respond positively to prednisone. which she did. But prednisone is not something you're supposed to take in high doses over the long term, which she had to, because if she stopped taking it, and that's one of so many different medications, but just that one alone, if she stopped taking it, she would die. And so she ultimately passed away from side effects of the whole cocktail, but primarily that prednisone.

This is hanging over your head as you're ambulating with age, yeah.

I have my own autoimmunity. I've got Hashimoto's. I basically keep it in check. through diet, supplementation, all that kind of stuff. But that lifestyle piece was not one that I was very good at. And let's look at what I do for fun. I run hundreds of miles. So, the idea of slowing down is just completely foreign to me, but I got the very clear message that I needed to do so, which felt impossible. But I have the most incredible teams in my 2 businesses who Like, they just immediately understood the need, quite honestly, because I was not performing at my best. I was really showing signs to everybody that I was just, I was not doing well. And they were lovely about it and fully supported me in taking a full 10 weeks off. And this means, I mean, a true 10 weeks. I'm talking, I didn't look at a single work email, text, Slack message, Zoom meeting. I didn't have check-ins with anyone on my team. A couple of times I got a text message, like, needing a code for a login to, like, pay a bill. That's literally the extent. extent of the engagement. And definitely folks would message me saying, things are going great, we miss you, just want you to know it's all under control. So I got a couple of little updates like that, but really nothing was needed from me.

In 10 weeks, like 10 weeks.

10 weeks.

That is what, 2 and a half months basically.

Yeah.

And what was so fascinating in that 10 weeks And I would love you to kind of walk us through on a, you know, a high level though of each week. But it was wild. Like you really did, like the first 2 weeks, it was like, is this actually happening? Like almost like you, you didn't, you were disoriented, you were confused, right? Can you walk us through like what, what did the 10 weeks look like on a high level?

Yeah, it was quite the evolution. It's interesting 'cause I didn't really do much other than in that first week I had friends visiting from Europe and I actually spent a week being a tour guide in New York City, which sounds Really not relaxing, except it was perfect because they didn't have family obligations. And they were, because of time zones and just, they have a teenager with them, you know, we never got started until 10 or 11 in the morning and we weren't partying all night. So, you know, we were in bed by like 9 or 10 at night most nights. So I actually had quite a lot of time to myself. And it was perfect 'cause it was still busy, but it wasn't business busy. And it kind of—

Yeah.

Moved me into not, I think if I just stopped and it'd been just cold turkey, like absolute quiet, I wouldn't have known what to do with myself. So, those first few weeks was that. Oh wait, and?

And you were in New York City, which—

Oh, my favorite city in the world.

You love.

I love it so much. So, that was amazing and helped me, kind of felt like a vacation. For the first 3 weeks or so, I was completely allergic to any kind of, Anything. Like, I couldn't— I had my amazing right-hand woman who's handling all of my emails for me, but I had told her I would handle the personal emails because it's going to be things like from the school or doctor or whatever, like, you know, just like very personal stuff, which she normally does handle as well. But I was like, oh, don't worry about it, I got it. And she noticed after 2 weeks or so, she's like, things are kind of accumulating in there. Do you want me to go in and handle? And I said, yes, please, because I could not physically get myself to open email for 3 weeks. I did not look at a single email for 3 weeks.

Well, I still laugh because there would be some days in that 10 weeks where you would be home, you would have gotten a massage or something like that. You would have sometimes just been in bed. You were watching things, and I would walk up, and I think on a certain level, you're doing these things and you're not thinking about someone else responding to what you're doing. And I walk in the room and you had this sheepish, like, kind of like, oop, I got caught kind of face.

Yeah.

And what was so funny about it, because here you are, you're spending your day relaxing, watching, doing the things that most people do.

Yeah.

And yet you never do. And you were like, is this okay? And I was like, of course it is. Like, I had no judgment. And if anything, I was excited. But But it was like, I could feel like it was so hard for you to peel back and just like let yourself have the day that is not planned, the day that is just kind of flaffing off, you know, like you're just doing whatever you really want. And it could be just sitting in bed, laying in bed and like watching a whole series of a show.

Which I only did a couple of times.

You only did a couple of times.

But I did feel guilty the whole time. It was actually, I had this perpetual feeling of, of playing hooky. Like I can still, I can remember when I was in school, just like in elementary school or high school. And there's that, there's a specific feeling when you know you're home, but everyone else is at school or everyone else is at work. It's like the world looks different when you are not working or not at school when you normally would be. Like everything just feels a little different and you're not out because you're at an appointment or you're like, there's no reason for it. You're just not there and it's not a holiday. And I had that feeling incessantly for like the first 3 or 4 weeks. I couldn't shake it. Now, I will say what I did, I slept a ton. I could not believe, I was expecting I would sleep a bunch for the first 2 to 3 weeks, but I will tell you, like right up until like week 9, 10, I was still sleeping to the point where a week before I went back, I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna do this. I was like, I now need a 2 to 3 hour nap every day in order to kind of make it through life. So how in God's name am I gonna remove that from my daily schedule and be okay? And I am okay. Although I have even been able to squeeze in some naps. I found that space in my calendar. But that's, you know, then I would say that the kind of middle part of it, once I had sort of untangled from some of the business things and got more used to it, the middle part of it, I really leaned into the family. And I think that's probably what you're referring to here. And, you know, I grew up with a mom who was hyper-career-focused. We always kind of joked, both my parents were very, were professional. They're both professional musicians and academics. And, So it wasn't that the roles were fully reversed, but it kind of felt like the roles were reversed. My father was very artistic and very lots of emotions and all these things. And my mom was very straight-laced and disciplined. And she sort of was the one who put her foot down with things. And she was very much the consistent career person. And so I have no idea what it looked like to be You know, the idea of a stay-at-home mom. And I know that when Sia was born, that's our eldest, I didn't really, I took, I mostly took time off, but I actually still had a lot of business obligations even with taking time off. And an infant is a totally different stage. It's just so hard. And I remember thinking, oh my God, how do women do this? This is the hardest thing in the world. Let me get back to work. Like, I couldn't wait to get back to work. But now that our kids are older, um, and they're really at that fun age, right? We have a 9-year-old and a 13-year-old.

Mm-hmm.

And they really wanna spend time with us. And I was able to do that.

It is.

I was able to spend all this time with them. And I learned things like, if they come home from school, when they come home from school, they wanna connect. They're ravenous. And so I started having dinner ready at 3:30 in the afternoon, which sounds absurd, but we'd have dinner together at 3:30 in the afternoon and connect and debrief their day. And then they weren't feeling abandoned. I wasn't feeling frustrated, 'cause what will otherwise happen if I'm still working when they come home is they come in, they're like wanting my attention. I'm like, I still have 2 more hours of work at least, you know? And then they're hungry, so they start trolling through the cupboards of the kitchen. And even though we have really clean food in the house, they're not eating dinner, they're eating snackier foods. And then I, by the time dinner comes on, they're just like, eh, I'm okay. And then it turns into a fight, and then I'm tired, and you know, like all this. You know, just this major domino effect of me being fried that would then spill onto them being fried. I was able to be home when they got home. I was able to connect with them, nourish them. I was nourished, so I was showing up really present and engaged with them. Something I did about halfway through is I noticed that because I had so much space, it was really easy to pick up my phone and start scrolling Instagram. I really have no addiction to any other social media, but I just deleted Instagram off my phone completely. That changed everything. So I don't have that kind of, I didn't tune out. I just, I did a lot of meditation, a lot of journaling, a lot of reading, a lot of time with the girls. I felt like I could just really tune into them in a powerful way. And it actually made me realize just the power, you know, and they— Look, James, you're an incredible father. Like, you are in like top 0.001% of fathers out there, like engaged, loving, supportive, involved. And kids need their moms, you know? And they need moms who are present. They need moms whose nervous systems are regulated. And I had never given them that. I had given them exhausted dredges of myself. And it's no wonder that we used to just like all be in this kind of like tense, who's gonna freak out first mode, that just went away.

Yeah, this is a, this is a, this is the gray area of traditional values, right? Because when we say traditional values, a lot of people just jump to like, oh, the woman's got to be at home and the man's got to be working. And while I do think that we are wired that way, and I don't know if that's fully, you know, like Mary Ruddick would say that that's actually how male and female are wired. But I don't know about that. I haven't done that research. So I don't know if it's because we're wired that way or if it's because we're socialized that way. I don't know. But either way, that is what we've known historically. I tend to think that it's more of like, we just need— the traditional part is we need someone who's managing the home, the kids, the things, everything that surrounds and is within the home. And then we need someone managing—

The business.

The, the income of money outside of the home, whether that's the, the husband, the wife, the male, the female. I, I don't personally have an attachment over that, but this was the first time I experienced it where we had a someone who was managing the home, and then I was focusing on being the, the person who is working, I guess, outside the home, even though I'm working from home. But I will still say though, That even though you were the homemaker, you're still the breadwinner, and that your businesses at this time are bringing in the majority of our needs financially. So yes, you were taking 10 weeks off. Yes, you were a stay-at-home mom, but your businesses were still keeping us afloat to a degree. Well, not to a degree. Literally. Um, and I felt like you being at home and in that role enabled me to be more in my masculine. And I felt it. I felt finally like, like the chains were off and I could like really just dig into being like, I am, I am going to take care of this family financially, you know? And it was so interesting because they were invisible chains. I didn't know they were there. But I felt it. Did you feel that?

100%. And I, I really, I love that you brought this up because I think it's an important piece. You know, I am, I'm so— we have 2 daughters. I want them to grow up believing they can do absolutely anything that they set their heart to if they work hard enough and really like go for it. I don't ever want them to feel that they are limited in their choices and options because of their sex. Like, that's just stupid. And I think as women, especially women who assume historically masculine roles, like being the breadwinner and the provider financially for the house, we can unintentionally be very demasculating towards our male partners. And I know that that was the case with us. And I don't have enough distance from it yet to really psychoanalyze myself in terms of the whys, the whats, and the hows, because truly all I have ever longed for in my life was a male to take care of me. I did a women's relationship weekend way, way, way, way, way back in the day. Some people would say, oh my gosh, it's just so, it's all about the patriarchy, this and that and the other. But I do think, and I don't know, is it societal? Is it Wired. I don't know. Who knows? I don't know that it matters. All I can tell you is that I have just longed for somebody to take care of me. And I remember learning, for women, love is being taken care of. And I was like, that lands. Whereas for men, at least per this person's teachings, men want unconditional love. And I think it's really interesting that so often we do the opposite. Right? I know you, James, love me unconditionally in this way that is just like at a cellular level, at a way that I sometimes can't even take in. Like, it's annoying sometimes 'cause I'm extremely self-critical. And then you look at me with these eyes of love and acceptance, and I wanna smack you because I don't look at myself that way. And it's like, it's grating when you can't experience yourself that way and somebody sees this greatness in you and it's just, Ugh, I get teary even thinking about it. It's beautiful and it's hard. And so I feel like, you know, in a lot of these modern relationships, you have the male giving the female unconditional love and the female, but not receiving it from the female partner. 'Cause I know that myself, when I'm tired, when I am completely exhausted, when I feel I was both very proud to be the financial provider and like do this thing for our family and also totally Like sometimes resentful and sometimes just like, oh my gosh, I'm just so tired. And you just take the reins for a minute, but not wanting to admit that. There's very, very complicated feelings within that. 'Cause that sort of felt like if I admitted that, then I'm failing as a modern woman. If I admitted that really I wanna hang out with my kids and I wanna like make dinner and I wanna help them learn how to fold their laundry properly, and I wanna like walk with them to school slowly, walk the dog and like hang out and just take the dog for a walk in the afternoon because that's what I can do. That felt embarrassing to acknowledge that I actually long for that. But this break forced me into that role, and I freaking loved it. And so all that unintentional critique of you, I think, dropped away. And I noticed in our relationship, all of a sudden it became spicy. Like, I relaxed into my divine feminine, and you were able to express your divine masculine in this really beautiful polarity that we hadn't— really had never experienced in a relationship before.

Yeah. And, and I mean, our family just dug into this beautiful place. Like, you could feel the kids were feeling like nurtured, you know, and, and seen in a way that I think we had kind of— I mean, I think failed is a harsh word, but I don't— that's just the word that's coming to me. It's like, I think we had failed at with the kids to a degree because we're entrepreneurs, we're stay-at-home entrepreneurs. So they've seen us all the time, but we're not actually available. And I think that it's not about always being available to your kids. I don't think that's at all what I'm trying to say, but I do think it's about the quality of the time you do have with them. And I think that we were sometimes half there, half not, because I know at least for myself, I was thinking about all the to-dos I had to do to move the needle on the business, things like that. And so it's challenging, and I think it's taught us to have boundaries around our work.

Yeah.

boundaries around, you know, making sure that we have family time on the weekends. But this was other level. Like, this was to me the missing ingredient from, from our lives. And I believe that we're now seeing it from this 10 weeks. We're seeing how regulate— like, how everyone's just— everyone's system seems more regulated, you know. Everyone seems more in parasympathetic mode. There's not as many fights. There's not like— there's no— not as much aggression on anyone's side that There's just like this love, and we saw it play out to where when our kids, right before Thanksgiving, they were like, we were supposed to go to a friend's house, and they were like, hey, can we just have Thanksgiving, the 4 of us? And we were like, huh? You like, you wanna hang out with us? And they were like, yeah, we just feel like it would be so nice just to be the 4 of us. And we were like, okay. Right?

Yeah. It has been and continues to be Really, really beautiful and important for our family. And I want to— I have a lot of questions for you, so I want to shift, but I just want to just say that now that I've been back, I'm almost at the end of my second week, so we're still in early days. I will acknowledge that. But I feel like, you know, when we do our— the Real Food Reboot, or what we used to call the Sugar Control Detox, we would describe that as a chiropractic adjustment for your blood sugar handling, right? You'd have to take absolutely every hint of sweet and overt sugar and hidden sugars and all the things out of your diet, even sweet fruit, for 3 weeks in order to, like, really, like, break the habit so that when you step back into things, it's a whole new world. And I feel like this 10-week break for me was that chiropractic adjustment for me in terms of my relationship to my work. Now, my team gets all me when I'm there because I am present. I'm not exhausted and depleted. And so, I'm able to be very specific in what I do. I think we've all learned that there's things that I was doing I didn't need to be doing. So now, I'm only doing the things that truly only I can do and should do. And it means too that I'm extremely— I'm able to be really present with the girls when they get home. You know, I'm still able to sit down and eat a meal with them. For the most part, not every day, but for the most part, sit down and eat a meal with them when they first come home from school and check in. And then if I need to go back and do an hour or 2 of work, they've been satiated, they've connected, and now they're off doing their thing. I'm doing my thing, but they don't— I feel like we have established a new system for, and kind of a new pattern for the family overall. And that feels really good.

Well, and you mentioned one of them, and I want to highlight it to people, is that Through that time off, Margaret, as she mentioned, noticed that, you know, the kids are really hungry when they get home. Instead of like forcing the kids to wait with that hunger and play out the normal pattern of snacking and then not being hungry for dinner, why don't we shift as a family? Like, let's shift and have dinner earlier. And that switch really does work, like adjusting the environment. Sometimes to fit the people in it works very well, and it not only have I seen them eat better because of it, but I also notice it's affecting the choices we're making with food. Like it just it's forcing like we're no longer having we don't have as many snacky foods in our house because we don't eat them. It's pretty incredible, and so I really love that. I was using the analogy the other day on some other podcasts of like you know when you baby-proof an environment. Well, one of the reasons you do that is obviously you want your child to be safe, but you're more so doing it because you don't want to always be in the position of saying no to everything. Like, no, don't touch that. Get out of that. Right? So if you baby-proof it and remove the things that you're going to have to say no to, then it's about just let them explore, you know, let them be curious. Right? And in many ways, that's what you did by adjusting dinner time and adjusting certain of our lifestyle practices to fit everyone's needs. It's like we made it so that no longer do we have to be out of congruence with each other or angry or hangry or whatever you want to call it. Okay. You said you had some questions.

I do. Well, this has been, you know, no small year for you, Mr. James Barry. And the big one that I'm sure all your audience is aware of and is wondering about from the inside, and I recognize there's things you cannot talk about Due to signing NDAs. But Shark Tank, this was a big year for you, and people have witnessed the external manifestation of that. I want to know if you're comfortable sharing the internal journey that you went through, because from my position here as your wife watching you go through this, As I said to you the night before the episode aired for the first time, and by the way, amazing that they've already aired it twice now. By that night, as I said to you, no matter what ends up coming of this, who you are as a businessman and as an entrepreneur has just evolved massively, right? I think about with marathon running, which I do and you have done, the race is Whatever. The race is great, but the outcome of the race is so little of the overall experience. It's who you become as a human through the discipline of the training and everything it takes to get to that starting line. It just evolves you so profoundly as a person, and that is what I witnessed in you. So, I would love it if you could share with your audience what that internal journey was for you.

Yeah. Well, it really, yeah, it was very revolutionary. And it's hard for me sometimes to step outside myself and see what you see, but I feel it. I do feel the change. Um, you know, something a lot of people don't know about is the process of how it happened. So I'll take a second to share that because I think it's really telling of What has occurred since. So since I started Pluck over 5 years ago, every single year throughout the year, multiple times, people will come up to me and they'll say, you gotta get on Shark Tank. This, it would be amazing. They would eat it up. And I've never felt aligned to it ever. I've just been like, ah, I'm not really a glory hound. I don't need to be on TV. I have some, you know, I have a great investor who helped to get it launched. Like, I don't want to do something that is not needed. You know, I want to focus on the business, you know, and I, and it just, for so long I poo-pooed it. I was just like, nah, this is, this doesn't feel right. And then earlier this year through some, well, the last few years, there's been a lot of like internal work going on. Some work we did with some friends of ours, like just really like processing some deep stuff and releasing things. And I think it culminated from that process. But I started this year out at one point, right? Like in May or something like that. And I came to you and I said, Margaret, I think I'm ready to be on Shark Tank. And what happened for me was I had this revelation of like, oh my gosh, being on Shark Tank is not about me. It's not about my ego. It's not even about the company. That it became really crystal clear to me that it was about the message. It was about the mission that I'm on in terms of trying to help people and support them in getting these nutrient-dense foods, these animal-based nutrient-dense foods. Like, it's about amplifying that mission and message. And so suddenly when it was about more than just me, I was like, yeah. I'm ready. And I told that to you. And then like 3 days later, I got an email out of the blue from one of the producers on Shark Tank saying, hey, we think you'd be a great business to be on Shark Tank. I thought it was a joke. Like, I messaged them back saying like, really? Are you, you know, is this for real? And they're like, no, no, no, it's a for real email. Like, we'd like to have a meeting to see if this would be something you want to take advantage of. And then suddenly it was like I was catapulted into this process of just just being like, just saying yes. Like, do you want to do this? Yes. Okay, what do you have to do? Okay, do XYZ. Okay, I did XYZ, and I was not easy because I'm still doing the hundreds of other things I got to do. But now I'm adding more work, and so suddenly it was like I was like doing the things, and I just kept. Passing go. I kept passing, getting to the next stage every time, and it felt so divine in many ways. Like yes, there was effort, but it was nowhere near the effort that most businesses go through to get on this show.

Nowhere near.

And through that process, I was definitely having to like really get granular with my the numbers, the business, really understanding like why, what is this about? Like really. Dialing into the mission, everything. And I had to lock down a pitch, all these kind of things. And suddenly I was on that list to shoot it. And then suddenly I'm now in the Shark Tank and I'm doing it. And it was so intense. There was so much adrenaline to it. It did not go how I thought it would. And You had to even remind me, like, you never actually wanted an investor. Like, you had to remind me when I first did that, that it was about amplifying the mission. Because I, during the process of doing all the work they told me to do and being around all these people that kept saying, oh my gosh, you're going to get a deal. I started to actually believe it. And I started to actually shift and think, oh, this is why you're in it. Instead of being reminded and remembering that no, it was about Amplifying the mission.

I think that's— I just want to pause there for a second because I think that's a really, really important piece. You know, nobody ever intended on doing anything but complete support of you, right? And you are, you know, people see what an incredible thing that you're building. And they— it's hard for those who are familiar with you, who know you well, or who just even know you through Pluck to see anything like, how could somebody look at this and not see the incredible opportunity? in front of them. And so, there was so much of this energy of like, well, of course you're gonna get a deal. I mean, we had friends who were making bets on which Shark was gonna make the deal. Not, is there gonna be a deal? Just like, well, which Shark was it? And da-da-da. You know? And that's— it's so loving. And it did— you know, it's hard not to start to sort of, you know, believe your own press, so to speak, right? And start to kind of take it in and have that as the new, Expectations. So I think it's completely natural that that ended up happening, 'cause that really was, from every angle, that's what you were hearing.

Yeah. And it was— and it— and I don't wanna go into details about what it's like in the tank, 'cause I— that is kind of the NDA stuff I had to sign. But I, I— let's just say that it was— it, it really was overwhelming. And it's, it's not what it seems like on TV. It's, it's, it's, It's pretty intense. There, there was a lot of things that happened that I didn't expect, that I wasn't ready for, because I— it's, it's different when you're in there. You know, they film like 45 minutes, then you only see 7 minutes of it. So what, what, you know, what they— what I experienced versus what people saw are very different. And, um, so let's just like— I'll just leave it at that without, you know—

Yeah.

Crossing any lines, but but basically when I ended, I was like I was flattened. I was like I don't I don't even know what to do. Like at this point, because my the energy output was so intense, and then and then and then feeling a bit like a failure to a degree, even though like you had reminded me, like this was not you didn't do it for that. Like I had to be reminded. I have to stress that because the the emotions were really heavy for me, and and then you were the only. person that knew, and I— and we couldn't talk about it. And, and that— so I filmed it in June, and it didn't air till September. So that's like nearly—

October.

Oh, October. That's right. So, you know, 5 months of just sitting with that silence and those feelings. And I couldn't sleep for the first month. I really struggled because I kept playing out the whole process. And in many ways, I would say it was kind of traumatic for me. Like, there was an element of trauma. And I got through it though in that month. And I really did kind of turn it around energetically and be like, no, no, I, I get it now. There's a bigger picture. And I was really like just at peace. And I still didn't know if it was gonna air. And then we got word that it was gonna air. And then I did something that I think you even struggled with. And I'm curious for you to share your process with this, but you were, you were like planning a whole viewing party and I said, I'm not gonna come. And you were like, what? Now it was later. Like, I was really— I do put, you know, my health and, and I, I wake up, you know, at the same time every morning. Like, I didn't want to diverge off of my lifestyle, you know, plan. So that was an element. But to a degree, like, when there's, you know, supernatural things that are about to happen, you step out of that just to be in them, right? Um, it would be like getting nominated for an Oscar and then not showing up to You know, for the event, just because it's too late. You know what I mean? So there was an element of absurdity about me saying I wasn't gonna show up, but I felt really clear of like, you know what, I have made my peace with this process. And I did have fears of like watching it, seeing how they edited it. Like just, it would open up something that I didn't need to revisit, that I got from the experience what I needed. And I continue to get from the experience what I need because there's, it continues to flower out and blossom and like. And reveal new beautiful things. Um, but yeah, will you share your process of me not, not showing up in that conversation we kind of had around it?

Yeah, well, it was actually really interesting because I, you know, I had my own, my own feelings because I, I knew the outcome, but neither of us, of course, had any idea what was actually going to be shared. And, you know, because it is always a longer thing and they edit it down. So we have no idea how it's going to, how it's going to be finally, you know, that final cut, so to speak. And I was definitely disappointed that you didn't want to come. And in my mind, I said, well, isn't it like if you, you know, so you're an actor and it's the premiere of your movie and then you don't go to the movie? And you were like, Margaret, most of those actors go to the red carpet and then go home. They don't need to see the movie. They were in it. Like, they were there. They're not going to sit there with everybody and watch it. And I'm sure that there are some who do watch and some who don't, but that actually made a lot of sense to me. And it was actually, it ended up being great because, you know, as a group watching it, we were able to, you know, We were able to— everyone was able to comment freely because you weren't in the room. And we were then able, you know, as soon as your segment was done, you know, there was, you know, the TV was turned off and there's a very, very lively discussion about everything, which again, probably wouldn't have happened as freely had you been in the room. And no, I think it was— it ended up being really the right decision.

Well, it felt like a real moment for me as well. Because I really, I stood up for what I needed.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? And I really, I stood up for it and I stayed true to it. And I didn't let my worries or concerns for you or other people like sway me from what I needed in that moment. Since technically it was, you know, an experience that was about me, right? So it's like I wanted to really make sure I took care of myself and, And I feel like that was a moment for me. And I think even how I'm now looking at the business and how I'm running, yes, there's all this kind of growth in terms of numbers and understanding the ins and outs of the business. But I think ultimately what's really landed for me is the confidence that what I feel and what I have an instinct around is okay. Like, a full acceptance of, like, you know what? I'm going to stay true to this instinct, and I'm okay with that. And I'm going to make sure that I take care of myself in that. And I'm also not going to apologize for the instincts I have. I'm just going to clearly communicate them. And I feel like I'm doing that more and more and just showing up with that confidence, but also that Curiosity, because you have to— I believe you have to be curious to follow your instincts. You can't just, you know, it's not overconfidence. It's like, no, I have an instinct, and you got to be like, well, what is that? And you got to explore it enough to then confidently say, like, okay, I'm going to listen to that. And I feel like I am in absolute acceptance of what I know, what I don't know, and my curiosity to gain even more knowledge around whatever it is I don't know. And I also feel like I'm showing up in relationships and I'm really listening more to people and I'm looking at others with softer eyes and I'm trying to help as much as I can when I can, but I'm also not trying to do other people's work. I feel like I'm finding this really beautiful balance between entrepreneurship and humanity. If that makes sense.

I would agree completely. And I would add 2 things to that. One is that I think you got even clearer that all of this is about your mission. I know of some decisions you've made in the business that you're going to be revealing in 2026 that are just so aligned with you. They're just in such integrity with the vision for the business. You So clear on that in a way. And you got clear on it. I think about the clarity going in was one piece. And I mean, the clarity even before the producers reached out to you, that was step one of it. Then there was the clarity through that process, which, yeah, got a little muddy at the end. But then coming home from the experience, it's very tempting. Any of us who do anything in the public, anytime— I have never given a single speech, I'm sure you're the same, where you don't then Analyze every little bit of it. Oh, I could have done this, I could have done that, and that times 1,000 with the experience of, oh, could I have done this in this moment? Could I have said this? Would the outcome have been different? You were forced to just let go of all of that. You didn't even know if it was going to be aired, right? There's a lot of unknowns throughout the entire stage in the process. So, you had to let go of all of that and just say, you know what? It happened. I have no idea the outcome of it. I have no idea if it airs what this is going to do for the business. I am just going to move forward with utter clarity on my vision and my mission and what I am here on planet Earth to do. And you just did it, you know? And then it came out and then everyone's talking about it, right? Oh, what about this? And what about that? And everyone's kind of trying to break down, you know? And you actually did such an amazing job of listening and you discuss it a little bit, but you actually didn't get caught up in the, well, I could have done this and what if I had gone that way? And if I did it, you didn't do any of that. You were just like, Yeah. Mission. Back to mission, back to mission. And I think that is just profound growth because there's always going to be things in business and in life that come at us externally over which we have zero control. I mean, we have control over basically nothing other than ourselves and our internal reaction. And most of our life allows us to operate under the illusion that we actually do have some kind of control over all these external factors. But really, we don't. And you were put into a situation where you had zero control over something that was going to be extraordinarily public, viewed by millions of people, quite literally. Talk about bringing you to the fire and forcing you to just say, like, I gotta just be me. That would break a lot of people, but it didn't break you. It just like, it got you so clear on what you're here to do and why you're doing it. And I, I know you can't talk about what's to come in 2026, but I'm so freaking excited to have this conversation with you in a year from now because I think the purity, you've always, I mean, you go through life with the cleanest heart. You're so, of anybody I know, you do things for annoyingly the right reasons, right? Like you will put yourself last on the list of people to receive benefit from your business, for example, right? Like you really are doing this for the mission of it, sometimes to a fault. But right now, you are just so clean and you've got now the success in the business that allows you to make some decisions that are really, I mean, it's just, it's really beautiful. Sometimes I think success can really corrupt people and help them, or sort of tempt them off course and draw them away from the original intent and the original integrity of their vision, especially in a mission-based business. You did not decide to launch this business because you thought you were going to make bazillions of dollars on it. You were like, people need to learn that organ meats are not scary and that they're the most nutrient-dense parts of the animals and they need to incorporate them in the diet. And I have solved the problem of how to do that without having to deal with all the hurdles that people have when they think about organ meats. Sometimes it can be tempting for people when they achieve a certain amount of success to forget their origin story, to forget why they're actually there. But what this experience has done for you is just fricking nail that into every fiber of your being so that you can move forward with even more integrity. And that, my friend, is why I fricking married you.

Thank you, baby. It's hard not to cry hearing this, of course, but I I think, I think from what I heard, the, the last line of what I said in Shark Tank is really, I'm really glad that they left that in. Um, and, and it's that I'm not gonna apologize for wanting to help people.

Yeah.

And it's like, that to me is like, should be put on a t-shirt for me because it's like, I really, I've always Gone down this path of wanting to be a chef, of to be specifically in the health field around cooking, because I want to help people. Because I've recognized that food is so it can it can be so complicated and so tied to our emotions, and we can make poor choices because there's so many manufacturers and agencies out there and marketing that are that are really not in it for our health. And so it gets so confusing, and I want it. I just want to cut through it all. And give people clean but delicious food, and and that's how we met, right? I mean, that's that's literally it was you know you're a functional nutritionist, I'm a chef, and then us realizing that our alignment in the philosophy of health was was the same. I think I always have said over the years, I've said there's an illusion of health with most products, but when you meet someone that's in alignment with your health, I mean, that was the coolest thing is when we had that trip, you know. that wine, the wine country, we had just, you know which one I'm going to tell. We just started dating or dating.

Like, we've been dating for like 10 minutes.

Yeah. And we just got into a discussion about like, oh, if we had kids, how would you want to raise them? And how would you want to feed them? And of course food was, I think, the first thing we talked about regarding lifestyle. And it was like, we were right on the same page, like right from the get-go. And, um, and I'm just so excited to enter '26 with you. It feels like '25 was such a deepening and so much growth happened, and I feel like it's all ready, it's percolated, and it's just all ready to pour out into '26. And I can't wait to share the bounty with everyone and to continue to expand and grow with you and our family and our little ones. Like, it's, it's truly a journey and it's a beautiful one, and I'm just so grateful to be on it with you.

You too, baby. So much.

Anything you want to say as we end 2025 wrap-up? Um, It's it's gonna be you know I hope my hope is that you know everyone out there is feeling a sense of coexistence you know of like collaboration in their lives and and and feeling an agency and an empowerment to not go into 26 feeling like oh like defeated or not feeling like less than but where you feel like. That you can be fully yourself and, and really emanate that beauty and that strength to those around you as you enter 26. I, I really hope and want everyone to feel empowered to not only support those around you, but also to support yourself.

Mm-hmm.

We gotta, we gotta like self-care. And I think you beautifully did that by taking 10 weeks off. I think I beautifully did that through my process with Shark Tank. And, um, and I wish that upon everyone that's listening or watching this podcast. Do you have anything you'd like to kind of, a gift you'd like to give everyone as we wrap this up?

Well, I want to reiterate what you said and also put it in the context of, I recognize that in the world at large, it's a little crazy out there. And I think your example of like, there's just so much out there happening that you can't control that can feel really overwhelming. You've had a very intense and personal example of that experience with you and your business, but I think a lot of people are experiencing that in the big picture of the world. And I think that I just want to encourage people to Exactly like you say, really take care of yourself. That's not a selfish thing. And gosh, I can even feel as we're talking here about it, I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe I'm acknowledging that I took 10 full weeks off. This is so self-indulgent. And I can feel there's stories. So I'm not gonna pretend that I've resolved this, but I wanna encourage all of us to freaking get over ourselves because here's the deal, you cannot contribute to a better world When you are just butt tired, and your nerves are on edge, and the slightest sideways look makes you want to just, like, snap. Like, you gotta take care of you. So, please do that as number one. And then please, number two, remember that all you can control is yourself and your reactions and how you show up. And as soon as you start to control somebody else, whether it's your partner, whether it's politics, whether it's, like, Anything out there of the myriad of things that are annoying and not going the way that one might want them to go, whatever spectrum, whatever your perspective on anything? I think that if we can all just take better care of ourselves and care of our close communities, our families, our close loved ones, our friends, I think that we would live in a really, really, really different world. And I really wish that for everybody.

Thank you. Thank you for joining me. I look forward to many more wrap-ups in the years to come. And most of all, I want to thank you all. You know, I started this not really knowing what it would become, but I definitely started it knowing what I wanted it to be, which was I just wanted to have curious conversations with interesting people, and I wanted to to be of service to you. Like, I wanted to— you probably noticed almost every episode, I, I think he actually— every episode has like actionable items, like things that will directly help you immediately. And that's really important to me, that I, that I want you to feel empowered to self-care, to self-love, and to help those around you. Because I believe it's this community that we have and that we're building. That is keeping us tied to our humanity. It's community. It's whose hand we're holding, who we're in relations with. That's what matters. And so I just want to thank you all for joining me on this journey. I truly, truly send you blessings and deep, deep love. But most of all, I hope that you can direct that to yourself. I believe we are, as Margaret said, and as I've said, we are all too hard on ourselves. That we can hold ourselves to the fire, but we can also be kinder. You know, we really can. We can, we can, we can do hard things. We say that to our kids a lot, and we can also look at ourselves with softer eyes. I think both can coexist. So thank you all. This is a close to 2025. May 2026 be just a beautiful time of expansion for you, and I look forward to many more episodes with you in the year to come. Thank you, Thank you so much for joining me on Everyday Ancestral. If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe so you don't miss the next one. You can find the show notes, links, and resources mentioned at eatpluck.com. That's E-A-T-P-L-U-C-K.com. And hey, if you know someone who'd get something out of this, share it with them too. Stay curious, live well, and keep it ancestral.