Reversing Osteoporosis: The Truth About Bone Loss & Strength with The Bone Coach, Kevin Ellis

Do you ever feel weak-boned? Have chronic illness that nags at you on the daily? Well, welcome to Everyday Ancestral, the podcast where we take the best from the past to ensure a healthy future. Today, we're joined by Bone Coach himself, Kevin Ellis. Kevin is an integrative health coach, podcaster, and is the founder of bonecoach.com, where he and his team have helped thousands of people with osteopenia and osteoporosis reversal. And guess what? Stronger bone goals aren't just for the over 60 anymore. Kevin, he was diagnosed with osteoporosis in his late 20s. You can halt bone loss, build bone strength, and prevent fractures before they happen with some simple actionable steps that Kevin shares in this episode. So stay tuned because you're about to walk away with more than just one life-changing habit that can make your bones stronger and ensure you thrive as you age. Kevin, thank you so much for joining me. You were in the military, correct?

I was. I was in the Marine Corps. Yeah. Wow.

That's, so that's not just the military. That's like echelon of military Marine Corps. At least that's how they showed in the movies. But I'm hoping you can answer this question because I truly have been wondering, not only since we met, but all of the ex-military men I know, they crush it as entrepreneurs. Is that, is there like something in the water or is that, is that, is it just the discipline? What are your thoughts on that?

I think there are a couple of things that go into that. Discipline is absolutely one of those things. You know, my view on discipline is having a foundation that you commit to every single day, even if it's a hard day, you commit to that. Even if you don't feel like you have it in you, at least that's the bare minimum that you're going to do to move forward and make progress. So I think Any person out there that's trying to make progress should have that established foundation already and just know that even when things get hard, as long as you do the foundation, you're still going to move forward. And that's a big part of, you know, how I think a lot of guys in the military that go into the entrepreneurial world, how they think. And another part of it is mindset. A lot of us talk about mindset in the health and wellness space. It is so important. And I think it's important to have a clear vision of where you want to go. So knowing what you want to accomplish before you actually set out to accomplish it, because that then becomes your, your North Star. And when you have that, it's easy to wake up and say every single day, you know, I'm already helping millions of people. We just haven't crossed paths yet. Right. So just having that mindset, I think is a really important thing. And then another one would be just a lot of guys that were in the military, or at least that I've seen, are— they know how to make decisions quickly and not belabor over every little detail and take action on those things. And there's actually a quote. It was 26th President of the United States of America, Teddy Roosevelt, said, at any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing. The next best thing you could do is the wrong thing. And the worst thing you could do is nothing at all. At least if you make the wrong decision, you then have data to inform your other decisions, right? So it just, it's important to have that speed to take action and then correct if and only when necessary, because the action that you take may be the right one and it may take you to the next level. So I think that's really some of the foundational things.

I love that. That actually feels like a really complimentary quote to the Maya Angelou quote of you do good until you know better and then do better. But you know what I mean? Like, but it's all about the learning. You know, I love that. Now you had some huge learning that really brought you into your mission and your focus. You got osteoporosis at a very young age. Can you share that? that experience and journey with us? Yeah.

And I'll, I'll even start from when I was younger, uh, when, before I was born is actually kind of when my health journey started. So when my mother was 5 months pregnant with me, my father was told he had cancer. And 2 months after I was born, he passed away. He was 35 at that time. He actually was a Marine too. Uh, he was in Vietnam, did 22 months in combat, got cancer from Agent Orange, which was a defoliant that we sprayed on our troops to kill the vegetation, to expose the enemy. And, you know, we sprayed it on our, our people too. And it ended up leading to a lot of different health issues, cancer, neurodegenerative conditions. And so when he passed away, as I was growing up, I wanted to be a Marine. I wanted to follow in his footsteps. So I went in the Marine Corps, into the infantry, did multiple deployments, and I got out and I started having all these different health issues. And I had high stress, poor sleep, chronic digestive issues. I was told I had celiac disease later on down the road. And for celiac disease, that's for those who don't know, that's an autoimmune condition where when you ingest gluten, it damages the villi, these tiny little nutrient absorption centers in your small intestine, and it blunts them and it prevents them from doing their job. So they can't absorb the nutrients that you need. And what happened was my, my villi were getting damaged and blunted, and they couldn't do their job. So, if you imagine your villi as being like roots in your soil, if your body and your bones are like a plant, and they're like roots in your soil, the— my roots were effectively being damaged. So, my body still needed really important nutrients to every single day to execute its daily functions, calcium being one of them. And it also is the primary mineral constituent of your bones. So, if you're not taking in enough calcium, or you're not absorbing it, or you can't absorb it because your roots are damaged, your body's going to go to the largest reserve of minerals that you have, which are your bones, and it's going to pull from there. So, that's what was happening to me. I was having this bone loss. I had no idea. Me just thinking I'm this tough Marine, my bones are fine. And I went, and it was, it wasn't even all the doctors I was seeing at the time that suggested it. It was a physician's assistant that said, hey, you have celiac. Has anybody done a bone density on you? And I said no. And so we went and did it and it confirmed that I had osteoporosis. And, you know, I was shocked at that time because—

Yeah. How old were you?

You were like— Right around 30.

30. Oh my gosh.

Right around 30 years old.

I mean, and osteoporosis is something we associate with, with old age, right? So—

Most people aren't thinking about their bone health until their 60s, 70s, 80s. And normally when you think of it, you think of, your grandmother or your grandparent or somebody who had, and maybe they fractured too. And you saw maybe how that impacted their life down the road. You're not thinking about it in the younger, the younger people. But I would say there are probably a lot more people that have bone loss and osteoporosis at a younger age that just don't know because it's not diagnosed or tested for at a young age. So, if you're listening to this and you do have, you have celiac or you have Any, any ongoing inflammatory conditions that could be contributors to bone loss, autoimmune conditions, you should probably get tested to at least understand a baseline.

What are some of the symptoms though that people, 'cause, 'cause you were obviously experiencing symptoms at that age. So what are some of the symptoms people might, you know, be, you know, alarm them to go get checked?

Great question. 'Cause Bone loss is silent, and osteoporosis doesn't necessarily have symptoms itself, unless you have a fracture. Then, the symptom is you've got the pain from the fracture. But osteoporosis is really the result of other conditions or issues taking place in the body, and those issues could have signs and symptoms that something needs to be addressed. So, if you're getting your lab work, and your hormone levels are off, significantly off, That could be, that could be a reason to go get tested. If you go get bone turnover marker tests done, which these are tests that look at the activity level of cells that are breaking down and building up bone. There's one called serum CTX. There's another one called P1NP. And if you look at these and these levels are off, that could be an indicator that bone loss is taking place right now. If you have Secondary causes of bone loss, taking certain medications like prednisone, taking PPIs for long periods of time. If you have autoimmune conditions, chronic digestive issues. So, I talked about how our, if you imagine your body and your bones as being like plants, the villi are roots in the soil, your gut is like the soil. You could have, you could have bad bugs in your soil, right? Like parasites or something like that, preventing nutrients from coming in and being absorbed. You could have good bugs in your soil, but they're just in the wrong place. Right? So there's, there's a variety of different things that could contribute to that.

Now, why do you think your, these health symptoms were presenting themselves at that time in the military? Was it the stress, you think, or? Like, why did it suddenly show up in your 30s, you think?

Well, so I got out of the Marine Corps at 23.

Okay.

So I wasn't told I had celiac until 2013. And that was a, that was about a 4-year gap after I got out. So while I was in, my mindset was as a squad leader, you know, I didn't want to show weakness. I always wanted people to see me in a light that was That, that they wanted to follow. So I never showed anything, even if I was tired or not feeling good or whatever. I didn't really show up there. It wasn't until after I got out where some of those things started to settle in. And part of it was also because of some of the lifestyle things I was doing at the time too, as a young guy in his 20s who was partying, drinking every day, a little depressed after I got out. And I just didn't have the right mindset at that time. You know, you go from having a lot of responsibility, taking care of a lot of people in really high-stress, high-intense situations to then only having to take care of yourself.

Yeah.

And it was, there was just a disconnect that I didn't really know how to address. So I did a lot of drinking. I was smoking cigarettes at the time, all stuff I would never, you know, promote now for anybody. That's actually probably of all the things I did, I would say that's probably one of the biggest regrets I have was actually smoking cigarettes.

And I, and I wanna share with the audience too, like, I mean, for those that can see you, you, you, you look very healthy, but in person, Kevin is, in my judgment, the epitome of health. And so like this idea that, you know, he's smoking really is, it just feels off character.

Yeah. Yeah. And now, you know, I, I'm, I don't do any of that stuff. And I, you know, we have a big community of people. A couple hundred thousand people actually in the, the bone health and osteoporosis space, that, that's really my role is helping them figure out how do you get to a point where you're actually improving your health, improving your muscles, improving your bones, and living your best possible life? How can we add an extra 10, 20, 30 years of good quality, good quality to the end of the end of your life? That's what really matters most because it's not about living longer. It's about how do you feel? Are you able to get up and do the things you love with the people you love most? Are you not giving up the activities that you love doing? Are you able to take those bucket list trips that you planned your whole life? You know, that's what, that's where I want people to be. So I think I got to set an example for that.

Do you think osteoporosis, you know, our concerns with bone health is a modern problem? I mean, or do you, or from your research and from, you know, you just being in the study, Is this something that was going on back in the day? They just didn't have, you know, a label for it.

Yeah, I, I don't think it's a new condition. I would say that the, the diagnosis of osteoporosis really started happening when DEXA scans were assigning people a score, right? Yeah. If you have a -2.5 score from a, from a bone density scan, They consider that osteoporosis. And then, the typical recommendation is calcium, vitamin D, go for a walk, don't lift heavy, take this medication from the pharmacy, and we'll see you in a couple years for another bone density scan to see where you're at, right? And that really started happening just decades and decades ago. So, yes, bone loss, I'm sure, was happening for far, far longer than that. But there just wasn't a name for that. And I would say that our modern lifestyles where we're staying up late, we're letting all the perfect lives of the Joneses and social media and all these other things stress, all these stressors impact us a little bit more where our food, our food supply is changing. Like the quality of the foods that we're getting, even if they're organic, Right. They might not have all the nutrients that foods in the past used to have.

Right. They're getting pulled from the vine and the trees earlier.

Yeah.

They're not, not, not allowed to ripen on the, you know, you know, on the vine.

Yeah. And, and, you know, if minerals specifically that are, that are making up our bones, if they're not in the soil, they're not in your food and you're not taking supplements for it, you're, you're not going to have enough of what you need to sustain the structure that you have or even build it. So, I do think things with our modern lifestyle and food supply have contributed to it. But the good thing is, is that if you're aware of it, you can actually monitor it, make progress, improve your bone density, your bone quality, your bone strength. You just have to be educated and empowered and know what to do.

Well, let's give some people some proactive things. So, what are, let's focus on diet and nutrition. What are some specific food and nutrients that are, you know, most beneficial for maintaining and improving bone density?

Yeah, I would say first and foremost, we'll start with protein. Okay. Now, if you go online and you search and say, is protein good for my bones? You may get conflicting information. Too much protein's going to cause bone loss. And, you know, you need protein, you need enough protein. Protein, your bones are 50% protein by volume. So, they need amino acids. Amino acids are the building blocks of protein. So, you need to be eating, I would say, at a minimum, try to aim for, you don't need to weigh it perfectly every single meal or obsess about it, but if you aim for 30 grams, maybe more than that per meal, that could be a good foundational starting point. And if you're like, well, I'm not hungry that much throughout the day, or I don't know if I can eat You know, a big piece of salmon and a piece of steak and a piece of chicken every day. Well, that's where we would look at something like a protein powder, right? Maybe it's a grass-fed beef protein isolate. Maybe it's a whey. If you don't tolerate whey, then go with a beef isolate protein powder. Maybe you're incorporating some collagen or bone broth protein or something like that. This is going to help you get more of those amino acids. And so, I think that's, that's an important foundational element.

And it sounds like you're, you definitely skew towards animal protein clearly, right?

Yeah. When you go toward the, the plant-based proteins, the volume of food that you have to consume to get the amino acids that you would need is, it's pretty significant too. So, I would always say animal protein is, is great to incorporate. when you can. So, the other part of this is minerals and nutrients. So, calcium, I already mentioned, is the primary mineral constituent of your bones. So, you need to get calcium every single day. Now, if you are following a, let's say you have an autoimmune condition, let's, let's, and you're following a path that doesn't incorporate dairy, then you have to find other sources of calcium to make sure you're getting that each day. So, what are some good non-dairy sources of calcium? Some of my favorites are bone-in sardines and mackerel. Those are fantastic. You get 'em, you get 'em in a can, a BPA-free can. Now, when the bones are in, and I, and you hear me say that, some people are like, oh, well, bones can poke you in the mouth and be painful. Well, these ones aren't like that.

Yeah, they're too small. Yeah, they're—

Right. When they're cooked in this can, it kind of softens 'em up. And it, the good thing about these sardines and mackerel are that They give you protein, they give you omega-3s, which are like the dampeners of inflammation, and they give you all the minerals your own bones need in the right ratios that nature put them in. So, you get the calcium, you get the magnesium, you get all these other minerals and nutrients, and that is a great source of calcium that's non-dairy, right? So, if you're following an autoimmune protocol or something like that, and you don't have it in your plan, Consider adding those. And if you're like, well, I, I'll eat sardines right out of the can. And I have no issues with that. And I actually like them at this point, but some people might not. So, if you don't like that, you know, we got recipes for that kind of stuff on our site too, but you can, you can look up, mix in like some Bubbies pickles and some avocado and some Redmond's Real Salt, or maybe some Pluck seasoning in there or something like that. And, and flavor it up, make it taste good. And that could be one way, or you could drizzle like some dressing, some Primal Kitchen dressing or something like that on there too. So, that's one source. Another source that I like is arugula. Arugula is a cruciferous, same cruciferous family of vegetables as broccoli and kale, but it is a low oxalate green. So, oxalates are anti-nutrients that bind up bone-healthy minerals and nutrients like calcium, prevent you from From taking those in. And so, arugula is a low oxalate green. And if you're somebody who has a history of kidney stones or joint pain or digestive issues, and you're eating a lot of spinach, spinach is a high oxalate green. So, consider swapping that spinach for that arugula. That could be a good, a good one. And you just get another bioavailable source of calcium. So, those are 2 good recommendations. And then the last thing I'll make a note on of calcium is if dairy can be incorporated into your plan. I am not anti-dairy. I don't think it makes sense to just drink a bunch of milk. I don't think that's what we were marketed to when we were younger. Milk does a body good. I think to a certain point, it can be helpful when you're, when you're developing your skeleton, right? As you're growing up and you're a kid, I think milk can be an important, can and should be an important part of that. Maybe it's raw milk, maybe it's cow milk, maybe it's camel milk, whatever that looks like. But as you get older, I think looking more at cultured and fermented dairy is the way to go, right? So maybe that's a probiotic-rich 24-hour yogurt, or maybe that's a kefir or something like that where you're getting the protein, but you're also getting these other nutrients and beneficial compounds in that too. So, Those are my thoughts on some additional helpful things.

Yeah, those are really great and very doable. I mean, I think people have access to at least most of what you mentioned, if not all. I'm curious though, like I said this to you last time I saw you, I always feel like you just have it, you always, you have it together. And I don't know if it's because of your military background or, you know, that tough exterior, but you always seem like you have it together. And you made a comment, you're like, oh, you should see me when I'm not at this event or something like that. And I'm just wondering, like, so what is, what is you falling off the wagon? Are you kind of, or do you, do you have those days where you're just like, man, I need a, I need a break. And what does that look like?

Yeah. I mean, I, If there's one thing I can say that I have learned about myself is that I really identify with a couple of words like resilience and grit and endurance. Those are things that I feel like really are a good representation of me internally. So when I have my own internal self-talk, I, a lot of times what I do is I anchor to experiences that I've already had in my life that were really challenging. And I'll say, you did this so you can do this. And I think it is important to push yourself and to create those experiences for yourself, even if it's through discomfort, because in that discomfort, you will find growth and you will create new anchors. So when you have those uncomfortable experiences, You're going to have to figure out what it takes to get through that discomfort. And a lot of times when you do that, you're going to reach this new level of personal development and you're going to create a new anchor that you can then reference and say, I did that so I can do this. And that's a big part of what I do is, is I just kind of put my head down and I'm like, oh, this is an easy day.

Was that how you When you first got your diagnosis of celiac and when you first had these health issues, I mean, you didn't have this background. You didn't, you didn't have your nutritional background at all then. So did it just, was it like getting hit by a brick? I mean, how, how did you deal with that? Because most people, when they're told they can't eat the thing that they're pretty much always doing or eating, they, they melt. They don't know what to do.

Yeah, it's interesting. So when I was younger, I wanted to be a Marine when I was growing up. As soon as I was old enough to know what a Marine was and to know that my dad was a Marine, and I knew I wanted to be one, but I also wanted to be a bodybuilder when I was in high school. And part of the reason for that is after my father passed away, my mother remarried to my stepdad at the time. He's no longer my stepdad, but He was abusive and he, you know, he just wasn't a, it wasn't a good person for, for us. And I remember when I was growing up, I was just thinking like, I don't want to be in the position again. Like, I started to develop that mentality of being someone who was tough and endure when I was younger from, from those experiences. And then my brother, he actually got the brunt of some of that abuse more than I did. And, you know, he would turn some of his anger and frustration on me. So as I was growing up, I, and I became a teenager, I was like, how do I put myself in a position where I never experience this again? So I actually started taking boxing lessons too when I was in high school. And then I wanted to build muscle. So I got Arnold Schwarzenegger's Bodybuilding Encyclopedia.

Which is a great book.

Freaking amazing.

Honestly, amazing book.

I'm so glad that from a young age, I picked that up and I actually read it and stuck with it. And because it laid a good foundation to, to actually kind of sculpt my body a little bit from a young age and lay a good foundation of muscle, but also just to get some of those foundational principles in place. And from an eating perspective, prioritizing protein, I think was a really important one. So I already had a little bit of health and fitness knowledge from that. Then I went in the Marines, still worked out, but it was more, some of those workouts were more just what they want you to do. Right. So it's running, doing a certain amount of pull-ups and doing crunches and you got to have a certain outcome.

Like you're, it's for the outcome, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And, and then some of the other ones were just really long rucks or hikes or Different exercises where you're just trying to test your, your mental fortitude and just how much you can put your body through and still keep going. So, not all of those were built to like sculpt a person or to maintain the healthiest physique. So, after I got out though, I did eventually get back into working out, but I really didn't have a lot of the health knowledge about osteoporosis, especially until I had the diagnosis. And when the diagnosis was given to me, I was like, I just remember at the time I got the diagnosis and I was, I went home. I was laying on the couch across from my wife. My daughter was upstairs sleeping. My wife at the time, my daughter was upstairs sleeping. And I looked up and I saw my favorite picture of her on the wall. She's a little over 1 year old wearing this cute polka dot dress, standing in front of a white picket fence, blonde hair, Blue eyes, innocent, sweet as could be. And I just broke down crying. And I just remember I cried so hard. It was, it was like emptying the sum of life's burdens. And after I was done, I, I looked over at my, my wife and I said, I just wanna dance with my daughter on her wedding day.

Hmm.

And, you know, I felt like she needed her daddy and I wasn't gonna be there for her. And it, that for me was rock bottom because I felt like I was about to put my daughter and my son who was on the way. Uh, I was about to put them in the position of not being there. Like I had, I had that pain. I know the pain of that path of not having the person that you want to be there to be your guide and shepherd. And, uh, you know, I didn't want to put them in that position. So I took the same energy and effort and enthusiasm that I, that I had for the Marines and for everything else that I done. And I just applied it to the health space and to this osteoporosis. And I went from, when I first started Bone Coach, we had 200 people in our community. I built up this coaching base of a, you know, a small amount of clients. I really didn't have that many clients when I was first starting out. And I had like an email list of like 200 people and in a 5-year period grew that from 200 people to now 258,000 people. And went from a team of just me to a team of 43 people now. And we've had over 11,000 people come through our programs at this point. And it's just, it's great to see, you know, I love seeing people in the health space too. A lot of us, you know, have our own stories that are tied to why we're passionate about what we're passionate about. And mine was just not wanting to see other people in the position I was in and helping them get to a better place.

Yeah, having that anchor of the why, you know, that really shifted me as well. What, what are, what are some kind of common misconceptions about bone health? We already identified age being one of them, that it can happen at any age. What are some others?

Yeah, I would say some of the ones around diet nutrition, right? That number one, dairy is bad. I don't think dairy is bad. I think if it's, if it creates inflammation in your body, like for example, if you're trying to put an autoimmune condition into remission and you're trying to incorporate it and it doesn't work for you, don't incorporate it. Right. Or if it's, But I would say not, not for everybody, right? If you tolerate it, if you do just fine with it, you can incorporate that into your plan. Just look for cultured and fermented dairy, add some kefir, add some, some 24-hour yogurt or something like that, or, or even whey, if you tolerate that. Those can be great additions that can support muscle building, that could support bone building. They could be great additions. So, I think that's an important one for people is don't just steer away from dairy because you hear somebody say dairy is not good for you. I don't believe that. And then the, the other one would be the whole protein piece is it is important to get enough protein. The other one is that genetics are your destiny, right? Sometimes people have certain genetic variations that, that could lead them down a path of maybe skewing more toward more bone loss or potential for bone health issues down the road. And what you want to be able to do is say, okay, even if genetics do play a role, which they do, how can I help my genes express themselves more favorably through the things that I do every day, through diet, through lifestyle? I think that's important is that genetics don't have to be your destiny. You can you can actually do things to help them express themselves more favorably.

So is there, is there ever an age where it's like too late, you know, or a point of no return? And, and, and then coupled with that is like, well, how long, for example, when you were diagnosed, how long until you were sufficient, you know, where, where you were no longer diagnosed with osteoporosis?

That's a great question. So for how long is too— let's start with the how long is too late. So you can build bone strength at any age. You can improve your bone density, your bone quality, bone strength at any age. It does become more challenging as you get older, right? And there are fewer cells involved in the process. The process becomes less efficient. So the sooner you can do something, the better. And I think it's really important to know that The first place you have to start is if you're still actively losing bone right now, knowing that, knowing that you have bone losses taking place, you can find that out through a serum CTX test. That's this active bone loss test. And you get this test, it tells you if your, your bone loss activity is really high. And if it is, there's something contributing to that. And then we go in and you gotta figure out what are the underlying issues contributing to that. And then you retest that serum CTX 3 months, 6 months down the road, and you look, is that CTX coming down and improving? Is that bone resorption, that bone loss, is it coming down? That's what we want to see. That's like a near-term target. So that has to be the starting point. And I tell people, you can't start going up and improving if you're still going down and losing. So that's a really important part. And then if you're looking at the bone loss part of the picture, you look at the bone formation side too. There's a marker called P1NP, pro-collagen type 1 N-terminal propeptide. You look at this marker and it tells you if you're still, if you're actually building bone too, and you want to see that ratio improving over time. So you don't just have to look at a bone density scan. or bone quality scan every 1 or 2 years. Those are like lagging indicators that you're moving in the right direction. We want to look at the leading indicators of success too. So if you, when you do that, you, the timeline for making improvements, it really varies by the person's starting point, right? So I see a spectrum of people. I have people that come to us that say, I eat healthy, I exercise, I got this diagnosis of osteoporosis. What do I do? That's like 50% of the people we see. The other 50% are people that have lots of different health issues, multiple autoimmune conditions, chronic digestive distress. Maybe they have a history of cancer, bone density from the negative 1s to the negative 5s, no fractures to 15 or more fractures. This is like the spectrum of people that we see, and every single person has a different starting point. So, if we understand that, we are going to understand Improvement's going to look different based on where you're starting from. So, if you have root cause issues contributing to bone loss, the nearest-term improvement we need to see is figuring out what's causing the bone loss, addressing the underlying issue, seeing a near-term objective improvement in 3 to 6 months in those bone turnover markers. That is the improvement we look for. And it's, that's so much, that's so different than what most people think they need to look for. They think they need to reverse osteoporosis. And, but that's not the first place you start, right? This is, that, that can come down the road, but we have to focus on the leading indicators first. So stability, bone density, bone quality improvements, those, you're going to see those a year, year and a half, 2 years down the road is when those start.

I love though, that it's like you're given a blueprint of though the process. What, what, okay. You've seen over 11,000 people. You've, what are, what would you say are the top 3 culprits of bone density loss?

Great, great question. First one, primary osteoporosis, which is typically related to a decrease in estrogen and postmenopausal women.

Okay. So that's the hormone piece you mentioned earlier.

That's the hormone piece. So, estrogen has a protective effect on bone. When estrogen levels decrease, as they do during menopause, that causes an increase in the activity level of cells that break down bone. Okay? So, that is a primary cause of osteoporosis. Then, we talk about secondary causes of osteoporosis. And this is where the bone loss and osteoporosis occurs as a result of behaviors, disorders, conditions, diseases, and medications. Right? So, the ones that, that I see a lot that follow after that, celiac disease is one of the contributors. Parathyroid issues are another contributor. Parathyroid glands are these tiny little rice-sized glands that sit outside of your thyroid, and they're responsible for regulating the calcium levels in your blood. And what can happen is you can get tiny little adenoma On these parathyroid glands, and that can cause calcium to be raked from your bones. So, the way you know if you have, if you look at any of your previous blood work, let's say you've had your calcium levels looked at over the years, and that calcium is persistently above 10, and you see that over time. So, as you're listening to this, go back and look at your blood work. Is your calcium level persistently over 10 over time? If it is, and you don't have a PTH, parathyroid hormone level looked at yet, I would go back to your doctor, get the PTH looked at, the calcium level, and the vitamin D in the same blood draw, because there could be a parathyroid issue taking place causing bone loss. That's another one. And then autoimmune conditions, I would say, absolutely contribute. And then prednisone use is another big one too. So when people have autoimmune conditions like lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, they might take prednisone. Just know that when you go on a medication like that, it will cause bone loss.

Right. What now? I'm just curious, 'cause a lot of, I'm curious, 'cause a lot of what you are sharing is, is really identified through testing, which is excellent, right? 'Cause we want, we want some markers. We want to be able to see We want to see ranges so that we can see patterns, right? But there was a point where we didn't have these tests. There was a point way before any of this. And so some people might look at our loss of bone density as like a natural part of aging. And why should we be fixing it? Now, obviously the why is important and we want to thrive. We want to live longer. Those consciousnesses and that mindfulness. But have you ever thought about, well, why are, why do we lose bone density? Like just, just why, why does this happen? You think?

Yeah.

I mean, and is there a bigger picture to it? Is there, is there a reason for it?

Yeah, I, I think for, it's a really good question actually, you know, from a, from an evolution standpoint, I haven't actually, look too much at why, you know, we would lose bone or why that may serve someone, you know, up to a certain point in their life. I think life expectancy was certainly shorter than it is now from an evolutionary standpoint. But in terms of, you know, the whole monitoring and whether we should look at testing and whether bone loss should or shouldn't happen, and we should just kind of let life take its course. I think now, because we can prevent bone loss from happening, if we know about it and we can take certain actions and we can monitor it, I'm all about doing all the, all the health things first, like just the normal foundational stuff where we're not obsessing over every test detail and every nutrient and all that. I'm all about that. I love that actually, where people can just wake up and live their lives and do great things. And, but I do think it's important to get some regular blood work done, check out some of these markers. Are the things that you're doing, is there something hidden there that you don't know that maybe we could address, that if you addressed it now, you could add an extra 10 or 20 or 30 years to your life? You know, just especially with the bone structure, because that's what I deal with mostly, is, you know, the more you can preserve and strengthen that structure, the longer your life is going to be and the better quality it's going to be. It is, it is so much easier to slow and stop and prevent bone loss than to build it back once you lose it. So much easier.

I feel like it's just a really great example. And what you've been sharing in this episode is just that we, There may be an evolutionary reason why we lose our bone density. Maybe it's so that our bones, you know, disintegrate into the earth easier. Who knows? But, but more importantly, as you're saying, like, look, we have this, we have this knowledge, we have these techniques, these tools, and why wouldn't we want to live longer? Why wouldn't we want to, you know, walk our daughters down the aisle or you know, be in our sons' lives when, when we're old men and, and, and, you know, holding their hands as they, you know, go down their path of being a father, you know? So I, I love that. It's a perfect marriage of like, look, we, we have this, let's take advantage of it and just try to thrive as long as we can. I'm curious though, as we wrap this up, are there any like advancements or emerging research in bone health that you are excited about? Is there anything new coming from, from what you've seen?

I'm going to get to that in just a second. I want to go back to what you just, what we just said there. I think, you know, it is important. It's important to just live your life and enjoy your life and not obsess about all the details of all the testing and every single nutrient, every single calorie, hyper-focusing on all that. I think we can overdo that to a point.

Hmm.

And I do see that in the health space sometimes where we become hyper-focused on these These, the minutia, and there's such a bigger picture, right? It's so hard to just target the minutia and then, you know, think that the rest of the body is not going to be impacted.

It is.

So sometimes that hyperfocus is not going to be helpful. And then I'm all about like, look, if you have the tools and you can get the testing and you can get some advanced insights, do those things again, don't obsess about it. But at the same time, if it can extend your life a little bit longer and make it a little bit better. At the same time, I personally am not, I'm not interested in living to, you know, 160 or 100, 200, whatever. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing to think that. I'm just saying me personally, I'm not interested in that. Seneca had a really interesting quote, which was life If well-lived is long enough. And, you know, I, I really just, I want to encourage people, just focus on living and enjoying your life and being happy and create memories with the people you love and creating good experiences, not focusing so much on the material things. Just focus on the experiences and just health doesn't have to be this thing you obsess over. It should just be part of your life. That You know, I, I think that's an important thing. And I don't know if you had something else there.

Well, I was gonna say, but it does sound like though, based on what you've shared is like, but, but also keep it as natural as possible. Like keep your foods as nat— you know, like, like keep your, your interactions, like be, be mindful of, of what you're putting in your body, how you're moving your body, and the choices you're making. While also not stressing over the details, right?

Yep. Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. And then in terms of like new research in bone and, and things that are coming out in this field, I mean, a lot of people ask me about different technologies and, and things that are out there currently that, hey, can these things be helpful?

Like there, one of 'em I'm thinking of is that there's that OsteoStrong stuff, right?

So there, OsteoStrong is one that's osteogenic loading where you're, You're loading the bones, you're, you're providing the stimulus, encouraging those bones to become stronger. And OsteoStrong, it's a, it's a great concept. Now, I will say it might not be, I do like it as a complement to a, to a well-rounded plan. So you've already, you're figured, you've figured out the root cause issues, right? If you go into an osteogenic loading session, but you still have a parathyroid tumor, Right? That's causing bone loss. There, that probably needs to be addressed too. So you, we can't just look at the complementary things, or the vibration plate, or the PEMF mat, or the dot dot dot dot dot, the stem cells, or whatever, and then forget about doing the foundational things. I see so many people come to me, and they're like, they'll they'll have a bottle on their call. They'll be like, I'm taking this supplement, or I'm gonna buy this vibration plate, and it's six thousand dollars. And I'm like.

Okay.

Do we know if we have celiac disease? Right? Have we ruled that out? What does your diet nutrition look like? You know, some of the foundational things usually aren't in place, and people are just looking for the quick fix or the magic bullet, and it just, it doesn't exist. So, get the foundation in place, then go and explore these complementary technologies and new advances and all that stuff. But a lot of those, you just have to know, They're not, they're not financially reasonable for most people, right? It's not very expensive, especially when you get into, you know, stem cell treatments and things like that. So.

Yeah. Well, I love that you're really focusing on foundation and, and looking for root cause before jumping to assumptions and/or to these, like you said, like tricks or, or, or these secret, or, or what am I trying to say? The, the, the bullets, the, you know, the, the one-trick ponies. I always think of Suzanne Somers' ThighMaster when I think of all these, these exercise tools that come out, because anyone that remembers back in the day, that was like the hottest exercise thing. And then like 5 years later and beyond, it's at every yard sale. every single yard sale always had a ThighMaster. So it's just like, yeah, money spent today, gone tomorrow kind of thing. Yeah. Well, hey, thank you so much for your time today. How can people get involved and reach out to you regarding Bone Coach?

Thanks so much, James. I appreciate it. And by the way, I love the, I love the conversational style that you've structured for this podcast. I think this is really cool. And really great. And it's different and unique from a lot of the other podcasts out there, especially ones that I've done. So, I love what you're doing with this.

Thank you.

And then, from a bone coach perspective, so a big part of what I do, what our team of 43 people helps people do, is we help people build stronger bones. So, if you know, if you have bone loss, or you have osteopenia or osteoporosis, Or, you know, somebody in your life who does, maybe it's your mother, maybe it's your grandmother, maybe you are the mother or the grandmother or the grandparent, and you need help with that. You go to BoneCoach.com, and we have all the resources that you need there to start building stronger bones. We've got free resources that, you know, a kickstart guide to get you started, to tell you exactly what you need to do. We've got anywhere from Recipes, exercises. And then we also have paid coaching programs where you can work with me and our team to actually help you build stronger bones. So we get in there, we look at your plan, we help you build it out, and then we'll, we'll see you through to that end result. And so all that, you can find it on bonecoach.com, and you just submit an application to work with the team if you want. And that's the process for that. And then you can find me on all the social channels too. And the podcast, Bone Coach Podcast, which James, if you're not scheduled to be on it, you should be on it already.

So— Send me the link, man. I'll be, I'll be on there in a minute.

We'll do that. That'd be awesome. You can find me on the social channels @BoneCoach or @BoneCoachKevin too.

Well, thank you so much, Kevin. And before we go, I feel like I gotta ask one last most important question. Because you opened your heart up about, you know, your daughter, your son. How old are they now?

Well, my daughter is 8. My son is, he's 6 and they're just awesome kids. They're just the best. You know, I would say being a father is probably the most important thing to me. You know, being the father mine didn't get the chance to be for me is probably one of the most important things in my life.

So, Yeah. No, it makes me teary, man. I want to honor you. I hope I want to honor you for that because I just lost my father in August. And so I had a long time with him. You did not, and you didn't have that model. You had a stepfather who was abusive. And so hopefully there were some Someone that helped model. And if there wasn't, I just want to honor you because I've met you. You're an outstanding person. I imagine an outstanding father and just honor you for the journey you've been on with your kids. And kudos to you. It's just none of it's easy and it's particularly harder when you don't have a model for how to do it.

I really appreciate that. And I'm sorry for the loss of your father as well. And my mother, she was a, she was a great role model for me. She, very kind heart, always set the example of being good and doing good for others. And, you know, one thing that I, I'm doing this year actually is I'm launching a mentorship for kids called Mentor a Million. And it is where I will teach kids values, how to be good, kind, contributing members to society, be the model that I didn't have when I was a kid, be that strong model to help teach those things and eventually go on to create the other mentors who will mentor a million kids. So this is a big passion project of mine.

Awesome.

We're going to launch that this year.

Well, get us the links and we'll put it in the show notes. So thank you. Thank you again for all the work you're doing and for sharing your heart today. Appreciate it.

Thanks so much, James.

Thank you so much for joining me on Everyday Ancestral. If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe so you don't miss the next one. You can find the show notes, links, and resources mentioned at eatpluck.com. That's eatpluck.com. And hey, if you know someone who'd get something out of this, share it with them too. Stay curious, live well, and keep it ancestral.