3 Hidden Signs of ADHD You’re Probably Ignoring (with Skye Waterson)

I'd like to ship you a free copy of my book, Habits of High Performers. If you come and join the 2026 goal setting workshop, I will ship you one of these today. The link is in the notes. Please come and join me to set up the very best 2026 you could imagine. If you've set up goals in the past or New Year's resolutions and they haven't substantiated, I'm here to help you across all the key pillars of your life nail your goals. I'll see you there. Welcome to the Lead On Purpose podcast. I'm James Laughlin, former seven time world champion and now coach to entrepreneurs, CEOs, professional athletes all over the world. This show is for people who refuse to settle, people who are driven, people who want to grow, who know that there's so much more to learn and want to learn from the world's best. Each week I bring you insights from a special guest who's at the top of their game with whether they're in Formula one, whether they're a billionaire, whether they've started a company from scratch and take it to the top. I bring them to you so that you can rewire your mindset, take action and lead a life of purpose. Let's get started. If you think you might have adult adhd, this is the episode for you. Today I sit down with Sky Waterson and we go deep on adhd. Enjoy. Sky, a huge welcome to the show.

Yeah, thanks for having me. It's really great to be here.

I'm glad that we can sit down because what we're going to talk about is something that's coming up more and more in my radar, personally, in my own life, but also everywhere I travel. So there's a lot of misinformation out there about adhd. In your experience, what's the biggest myth that you've came across?

I have to pick one? No, I think the biggest myth is that people think that the people who have ADHD are always employees in lower level positions. But often it's the CEO or the management or the team leader who actually has adhd.

Interesting. And when I was younger, I was led to believe that ADHD is a childhood thing that we, quote, unquote, grow out of.

Oh, yeah, that's another myth.

Right. So is that true? And tell us, tell us more about.

Your experience with that question. So there is some research to indicate that there is. You can grow out of experiencing the symptoms. Sometimes you can actually experience more symptoms. When you're older, though, it really Comes down to your environment. It's more about ADHD is a particular executive functioning and dopamine difficulty. And if you're in a position where you are.

In an environment that doesn't gel with how your brain would work, really naturally, you're going to struggle more. And if you're in an environment where you don't have that issue, then you're going to struggle less. And that tends to be what it is.

Great. And when you talk about struggling more, what might that struggle feel like or look like?

Yeah, so what it would tend to look like, at least with people I work with, is you'll be more impulsive. You will struggle to keep track of what you're doing next, when you're doing it. You might struggle to manage your time. And you'll also struggle to work on sort of bigger projects, or you might have more on your plate then you did before. And sometimes that can be a sort of last straw for people when they realize that they have it.

And is ADHD a spectrum that we all, as humans sit on? There's an opposite of ADHD or is it something totally different?

I don't think it's a spectrum. I think that you can have. You know, when you look at the research, a lot of the times people do talk about this idea of having subclinical adhd. So you might have strong symptoms, but you don't meet the requirements. A lot of the ADHD diagnostics are sort of built on that scale. But I would say that we can all do things that would seem similar to ADHD on a bad day. You know, I often say ADHD is you. When you haven't got enough sleep, you had a little bit too much coffee. That combo. That's ADHD at least.

Yeah. And ADD versus adhd.

Yeah. So nowadays it's called ADHD combined or inattentive. Primarily inattentive or, you know, primarily hyperactive. But yeah, when I was getting diagnosed, it was hyperactive was adhd, which is the more, you know, outward. You know, driven by a motor is a big thing that people talk about. And then ADD was more distracted.

Interesting. And your experience of it was this as a kid was this later in life?

It was when I got my PhD, when I started my PhD.

Wow. So how did that strike you? And you're an adult, you're clearly very successful, very switched on. And how did that strike you and you got that diagnosis?

It was. It was a lot. I had been an academic for a while at that point. I also taught developmental psychology. So I had Taught in the place where you would think we would talk about this. But yeah, when I went to do my, you know, my PhD, I'd burned out a number of times on the way there, and I really wanted to figure out was there anything going on. Sometimes my writing was great, sometimes it wasn't. And so I was able to get, you know, go to the student Learning center just down the road from here. Love them. Amazing. And they said, we think you have adhd. And it was a. I mean, I had to go home and Google. I had to go home and look up what that meant. I had so little knowledge at the time.

And it's interesting, you know, I look at ADHD as a. It's. It's a incredible thing to know about once you know about it. But it can be a big hamstring and it can hold us back if we're going through life and we don't know that we've got ADHD 100%.

I mean, I was. The problem for me was I was burning out. Every few years I would go really hard on a Masters or an honors or something, and then I would burn out. I mean, the year before, I got a scholarship for my PhD, which was amazing. And I didn't even remember getting it. I was so burned out, I went and I worked in a bakery for a year before I went back because I just didn't have any way of managing my energy at the time.

It's interesting you talk about burnout. I think back, like, my younger years. So I was a drummer. I learned drums as a kid, and it was a competitive type of drumming where you could get adjudicated and go to competitions. So I was very competitive from a very young age and was traveling the world playing drums, teaching drums, selling drums. Eventually, everything was drums. James, the drummer, that's awesome. Came to New Zealand teaching drums. Got here on a visa culture visa through drums. I got to a point where I hated it. I hated it. The thought of lifting a pair of drumsticks say, oh, my God, I can't be bothered. Like, it just brought me so much. Like, I was drained.

Yeah.

Is that me getting towards burnout? Would you say that was me, like, burning out?

It's. It's an interesting one. I mean, I'm not a burnout expert. I have learned a little bit of it because so many people I know experience it. I think often when people come to me, it's because they've been. The best way I can describe it is if you're doing something that doesn't quite. You're doing it in a way that doesn't quite fit you and you're doing it a lot and you're maybe having to put in like 130% extra effort compared to other people because you're doing it in this different way. Eventually to hit a high bar, you are going to burn out. So for a lot of people, you know, sometimes I work with people and it's really sad, they've actually, they've stopped even allowing themselves to have goals because they have burned out because they don't know how to go for something in a way that doesn't take everything or, you know, they just, they just don't even try.

Yeah. And they probably sacrifice things along the way.

Oh, yeah, I did that too. I was like, as long as I don't have a social life, you know, I can do this academic thing.

And you probably justified the lack of social life. Like, this is what I need to do.

I mean, it was kind of the thing in academia, to be fair. It's not. It's not unusual.

Yeah. To be more maybe introverted.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Interesting. And if someone's listening or watching right now and they're going, wonder what? I have adhd. What are the top three things that people come to you going like, I've got adhd. What are they?

Yeah, so this is an interesting one. And actually, you know, a lot of times I don't work with people who are only diagnosed. People don't realize that because I'm an executive functioning style coach, you don't have to be diagnosed. So the people who come to me, usually the people who, they forget everything, they've got working memory problems. They're like, if I am in a meeting and somebody says, hey, can you remember to do this thing? I'll say, yeah, 100%. And then I will 100% forget and I will never happen. And you know, that will happen all the time. People who are time blind. So a great way you can see this is if somebody says, how long do you think that project will be? They will usually pull a number out of thin air.

And it could be next week or it could be next month, or it's probably tomorrow. And then the other one is just impulsivity. So people do struggle with impulsivity around kind of wanting to throw everything up in the air every six months. Especially if you're a business owner, it can be very easy. They call it shiny object syndrome. It's the colloquial term. And yeah, I've seen that Seen a lot of people taken down by Shiny Object syndrome.

I bet you have me too. I see it all the time.

Yeah.

And even like I think about it from a personal perspective, I. In terms of working memory, I think I've got a reasonable working memory. I read a lot, I teach a lot. From what, you know, what I've learned years ago, so I remember that stuff. But to come up here today and sit with you in Auckland, I had to drive my car to the airport in Christchurch and there's a multi story car park. Every time I go back to the airport, I have no idea which floor, no idea.

I know I have to take a photo of the car.

I get the feeling I do the same thing at home. Seven to ten times a week I will misplace my keys or my wallet or both.

Yeah.

And it will take me 10 minutes of being a little bit flustered trying to track them down.

Yeah.

So should I be considering that maybe I have adhd?

Well, you are an entrepreneur and the research, I think it was like 300% more likely to be an entrepreneur if you have ADHD. So if you have ADHD, I would say you should probably just get checked.

Just for that 100%. And let's talk about that. Do you feel ADHD is on the rise?

That is a good question. I definitely feel like an understanding of ADHD is on the rise. An understanding of adult ADHD is on the rise. I don't necessarily think that there is a. I don't necessarily think that ADHD is on the rise. I think that we're just broadening our understanding of what it is and a little bit of a. There's a little bit of a move away and a shift away and it's controversial. Away from the idea of it just being purely. I can only get it if I'm really struggling. I can only get a diagnosis if I'm really struggling.

Do you feel like. So on TikTok and the other channels there's a lot coming up about ADHD and yes, there's some really great information, but 100%, there's lots of misinformation. Do you feel that there's maybe some problems around people being misdiagnosed or, sorry, self diagnosing and doing that in an inaccurate way?

Yeah, I think that that can be the case. You know, one of the biggest controversies in the last couple of years was the BBC. They did a whole presentation on, you know, diagnosis and the idea, not even of just self diagnosis but of getting a private diagnosis. And it was a Big thing in. In the uk, we actually got to speak to some people who wrote for the Guardian on it. And what the NHS psychiatrist who diagnosed people said was that if you are spending a thousand dollars, because it can be really expensive to get a diagnosis of adhd, you probably have something, it just might not be adhd, it might be more of a mental health struggle that you have. So you definitely have something and we probably need to give you some support. It's just unfortunately, sometimes people get told that it's ADHD when it was something else, in the same way as people might get told that it's. You know, people used to get told, oh, you have anxiety when they had adhd. When they got the support for that, their anxiety reduced. So I think it's always good to. To figure it out. But you're probably not wrong that it's something.

Yeah. And there's these tests, I've taken one on online, so an assessment, ADHD assessment. And it pretty much said, james, you've got it.

And you're like, that's it, I'm done.

Yeah, done, take it. And then I thought, okay, so that's that. And then I started looking into it. Actually. No, there are clinical diagnosis. So to say that you've got ADHD and say you actually got it, you need to have a clinical diagnosis in New Zealand. So at a friend that did this recently, it's very, very expensive. And there, I mean, we're talking, I think, was 2 or $3,000.

Yeah.

And it's a long process and a big wait.

Yeah, yeah.

So do you feel that potentially there's a. Not money grabbing, but there's something in this where there's criticism around. To get a diagnosis, you've got to be paying a small fortune.

Yeah. I mean, it's really expensive and I don't know why it's expensive. I think psychiatrists just. There's a waiting list, there's the medication side of it. But I do think that if you. And this might be controversial, but if you do feel that you are struggling with executive functioning difficulties, which I separate from adhd, because executive functioning difficulties, which you can have with adhd, you can also have if you have post traumatic stress disorder, for example. So it doesn't necessarily mean that you have it. If you want to get support for executive functioning difficulties, I don't think you should have to wait for a diagnosis. That's one of the reasons I don't make people wait for a diagnosis, because it can be years, 100%, and you need help. Probably now.

And these executive functioning difficulties. Can we just talk exactly what you mean by that?

Yes. So they make a very small amount of the actual statistical diagnosis, diagnosis manual, the dsm. But when you look at the dsm, they talk about these executive functioning difficulties. And executive functioning is a very broad term, but essentially, the ones that I see the most are working memory struggles. So struggling, you know, with what we said, losing your keys, all that kind of stuff. Time blindness, transition time or set switching. So always being early or late to everything. And those are kind of the big three that people tend to struggle with.

Interesting. Yeah, that's really, really interesting. So, for me, time is a very intense thing, and everything's measured to the minute, to the moment, like, fanatical. And I'm up here in Auckland, and obviously Pablo travels with me. Videographer. He knows if we're meeting at a time, like, I'm there at the door, like, one second before waiting to drop the door.

Yeah, yeah.

Is that potentially a sign?

Yeah, that's an interesting one. I would say it depends. Like, did you ever struggle with being late in the past and now you're compensating?

No, I've always been either really, really early.

Yeah.

Or like, oh, my God, we got it. We got to go. We got to go.

That's very adhd.

Okay, I see.

I say this to somebody who circled the block for, like, 10 minutes before coming in.

I love it. And you were early.

Yes.

And then I was at the front waiting for you, and I'd walk past you. Yeah. Two ADHD people in the building trying to meet. I love that. And so I guess the next question is this. So someone's listening, and they're maybe experiencing some similar things that I've shared or that you've shared. And they're going, but I think my life's going, okay.

Yeah.

Do I need to go? Or what would be the benefit of me going to get the diagnosis?

Hey, James here. I wanted to take a quick moment to let you know about something. Look, I get asked to deliver keynotes and workshops for teams and companies all over the world, from London to Antarctica, from America to Australasia, from all the armies to small businesses to large corporates to sports teams. But I go in and deliver keynotes around the mindset of high performers, around the habits of high performers, about how we navigate change. If you would like me to come and speak to your team or speak at your conference or deliver a bespoke workshop, please get in touch with my team. Carolinejlochlan.com will be able to help. I'll also make sure that we put that in the show notes.

That's a good question. So I would say you want to get the diagnosis if you want medication, which not everybody does, or if you want to know that you have it so that you can start feeling like you can get the supports that you need. If you don't need either of those things, then you probably don't need to get the diagnosis. If you're comfortable saying I'm ADHD ish, which is a term that people use these days, then that's fine. But, but yeah, it's a, it's a personal decision. I would say most of the time, if you're going to go see a, you know, psychiatrist for medication.

Okay, that makes sense. And does ADHD ever show up in less visible ways that really subtly show up?

Interesting. I mean.

I think there's, there's many ways. One of the funny things that happens a lot is people, once they start working with me, they'll tend to just bring everything for a while. They'll be like, is this adhd? Is this adhd? And, and often it is. I mean, I think, you know, things like what, you need a cup of tea before you want to go do something else. So somebody might be like, that was a great meeting. Now we're gonna, now we're gonna jump into some work and then we have another meeting. And, you know, people with ADHD might be like, I kind of need to just like, do something. I need to, like, look at my phone for five minutes. I need to like, just, you know, because again, we struggle with that transition. And, you know, we need a little bit of a dopamine break. So those kinds of things, I think are very subtle ways that we can exhibit signs.

That's awesome. And, you know, I'm thinking about the person that's maybe less ADHD ish and more like full adhd. Workplaces must be damn difficult, like productivity. Let's go, let's focus. Forget the cup of tea.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, I think that's one of the reasons why they end up running the joint, because it's like, you know, it can be very difficult to be there. So sometimes the person leading the charge and being the most.

The most determined to make the project happen and contacting you at 11 o' clock at night about it, that is sometimes the person with ADHD or it's the person who's like, not turning up until 10 o' clock and trying to make up an excuse and all that kind of thing interesting.

I. I'm a planner and I like to manage my time. I like to plan way ahead. So I've got a little system that works for me. Do you have a system that you recommend with clients for people that have ADHD to manage their lives?

Yes. Yeah, I have a system because this is the number one thing people come to me with. They come to me because they're feeling overwhelmed. They are like, you know, some. Because we have a little form you fill out when you apply to work with me. And you know, sometimes people will just write like, I don't understand, like anything and I need help. And that's kind of where they're at. So I have something, it's called the Focus Filter. And what it allows you to do is I tend to say, you know, it helps you go from completely overwhelmed to focused on what you need to do next in 15 minutes. Because we like to know it's gonna not take a long time. And you know, we go through and basically filter through different struggles. I actually have that, you know, you guys can go to my website. Unconventional organization. Just click Focus Filter. It's free to download. The dashboard is there for you. The video is there for you. Please do it. I don't want anyone overwhelmed. Yeah, I don't want anyone to feel overwhelmed. But it's just simple things. Like the Eisenhower Matrix is great if you guys have ever done it just.

That urgent, not urgent, important.

But when you have ADHD and you have a working memory struggles, it can be a bit hard to look at something and say if it's urgent, important or important. Not like it's too many steps. So I've kind of, you know, I didn't even realize I was doing a bit of it. But like I've kind of broken it down just a bit for everybody. So it feels a lot more streamlined. And the idea is everything feels easy when you start doing it in an ADHD friendly way. I think that's the thing. Nobody really understands.

I can't wait to see that. Because it's interesting. I know the Eisenhower Matrix. I talk about it, but when I see it I'm like, but it's all important to me. Yeah, like it's all important.

Everyone says that. So I have a. I have something called a significant external negative consequence. That's what it has to be. You know, if it's not a significant external negative consequence, then you cannot write it down in the urgent section and it has to go in important. And I kind of help you guys with that. But it's really important. And I will say for anybody who's interested, I'm app agnostic. You can do it. I have a dashboard that you can do if you want to use a Google sheet and get it all done for you. But you can put it on a bullet journal, you can put it in your notion. I know everyone has different systems. I never tell people which system to use.

What systems do you have? Like, if I was to jump into your phone right now, you've got kids, you've got family business, so how do you manage your life? What are you using to keep yourself on track?

Well, I have the wonderful, my wonderful EA Jess, shout out to her. She manages my calendar. She manages everything. She's the reason I'm here today. So first of all, you know, I've been able to do that and I use Notion usually, so I use Notion, I use Slack, but a lot of this stuff gets done by my team. And then I'm spending a lot of my time having these conversations and doing deep work and, you know, writing on my Remarkable and things like that.

Cool. Do you journal?

Yes. Yeah, I have a remarkable. I've had it since my PhD. It was a big investment at the time and I don't regret it at all. And so I journal like every day in there.

Incredible. So I'm a daily journaler and I love it and I've done it for years. What do you journal about? Is there any structure? Are there any questions or prompts that you use?

The best journal that I've found personally is, is just stream of consciousness because usually, and I don't know if this is adhd, this might just be me, but I'm usually like, there's something I need to get out. And so a lot of what I'll do is just kind of try and get it out by writing words on paper until I find what's bugging me or the puzzle I'm trying to figure out.

I love that. That's really cool. And what about calendars? Like, so I have one calendar. My team has that, my family has that.

Yeah.

Do you operate by a calendar or a diary?

Oh, yeah, I live on my calendar. Yeah, definitely. That's like where everything goes. So my, my EA knows that if it's not on my calendar, then I'm probably not going to do it. So this is on my calendar. There's like a little note section next to it that reminds me, like, where we going? The dress code, like all of that kind of stuff. And. And then right after this, there's like, you know, what's happening next, where we're going next, all of that stuff. And I'll shamelessly move things around as well. Sorry, Jess, you're a bad egg. Sometimes I'd just be like, nah, we're not doing that. Not events, but, you know, different kinds of work.

That's brilliant. I seriously love that. That's cool. It's interesting. I think about many friends I have had and still have throughout my life who've had adhd and they're so successful in a lot of things that they do, but they feel like there's so many opportunities that they haven't pursued.

Oh, yeah.

So many ideas they've had that they've never follow on. So let's talk to that one person right now who's got this. Maybe six ideas over the last six weeks, and they're not executing on any of them. What's the process to get them to pick one and to move forward and keep going?

That's a great question. Are we talking business ideas or just general ideas?

Just general.

It's interesting. I think the best thing I could say is put everything else in that not now. So don't say never, just say not now. Sometimes it's about sequencing. I often say to clients as well when I'm working with them, especially if people really want to grow their business and they have like a ton of ideas, I'm going to do this and that. And so we go, okay, what is the sequence that we want to do? What is the 8020? I often say, so what is the thing that is the 20% that's going to give you 80% return? And so for me, when we talk about Focus Balance Growth, which is a program that I teach, the first thing we do is we go and find that thing. Thing, and we say, that's the thing you have to do first. So for me, you know, it's been like one of my dreams and goals is I'd like to go back to academia, I'd like to write papers on ADHD and really, like, build out that research side of it for ADHD people, practical strategies. But I have to build. Build the business first, you know, so this is my 80 20. And so that can really help.

That's brilliant. And tell me, Focus Balance Growth.

Yes.

Okay, tell me more about that, what that looks like.

Yeah. So Focus Balance Growth is a program that I teach where we help people go from overwhelmed to focused, then help them get their time back. So I teach the systems I use and that I've Sort of learned as well to, you know, bring people on board, bring in people, because if you're going to grow your business or you're going to grow as an executive, you need to have a team around you, but you have to do it in an ADHD friendly way. And then I talk about, you know, how to create predictable scalable revenue, how to, you know, create revenue dashboards and things like that that are going to be really helpful to just have one space where everything is there for you. It's not a ton of. It's not like tips everywhere. They're like, you know, repeatable, usable systems that you can get. People often say, I get in their head. They're like, you're in my brain. And then. And then all backed by primary research, which is something I'm very, very pass.

Tell me about what does primary research mean?

So primary research means that we, you know, I have a researcher as part of, you know, my organization, and her and I will meet about once a week and we'll go through the new papers that have come out. So journal articles into adhd. Neuroscience is a big did that into postgrad. So I love that stuff. And we'll look at, you know, what's come out and we'll kind of peruse it to find things that are going to be helpful. Because there's a lot of stuff that comes out that's just like, ADHD is bad and here's why. And it's not really built for us, but when you look through it, you'll find things like dopamine transfer deficit theories and things like that that show things that we can use to say, oh, well, if you take this and you put this with this, that actually will be really helpful. And so that's what we do.

That's powerful. It's interesting. I read a book, Dopamine Nation, by Anna Lemke, and it was really interesting understanding how dopamine functions and works. And so I started doing a deep dive into hormones and how that actually plays with our motivation. Because often we look at motivation as extrinsic, like money, power, status, goals, bonuses. Yeah, and that's great. That motivates us to a certain extent. But actually there's a lot of internal, like, physiology stuff going on. So in your research with adhd, what role does dopamine play?

Dopamine is such a big factor in adhd. It's. It's basically one of the things we can see is that when you're adhd, your brain is not processing domain in the same way. Neuroscientists are still arguing about exactly how, but that's what we can see. And so one of the things, it was actually created by a professor from Dunedin that I'm, like, going to call this week and be like, please, I want you to come on the podcast. But it's this idea that when we start a task and we have adhd, this seems to be something where we don't get a dopamine boost for starting a task that if you're neurotypical, you would get. So if you're neurotypical, your brain gives you a big thumbs up, says, hey, you're about to do something that's gonna be great in the end, so well done. And if you're adhd, your brain just kind of goes, this sucks. This is boring. And so that, you know, led me to start encouraging people to do sensory rewards when they start a task. And that, for a lot of people, has been a huge unlock to really getting things done.

I love that. So what would a sensory reward be? What are some examples?

Yeah, so it's. I call it sensory reward because people often say, like, I don't want to eat chocolate. And I'm like, that's okay. I'm not gonna make you do that. But I ask you to think about your five senses. So touch, taste, you know, smell, and then stack things. So you could say, I'm gonna have a smoothie, I'm gonna sit down and, you know, somewhere really comfortable, and I might listen to some music, and then maybe I'll, like, you know, pick up a very short magazine and flip through it, and then I'll dial my dopamine down to, you know, just the music and so on and so forth. And that can help you get into work without the dopamine boost that you seem to get if you're neurotypical.

God, that's so powerful. So I think about this, and I try really hard. In the morning, I wake up, I lift my journal, I write in it, and it's like, I don't even get out of bed. It's like I'm writing in it. Next thing, I close my eyes, I meditate. And then, like, the pull, the urge is like, the phone. It's over there. It's over there. Like, I need to go and check that phone.

Yeah.

So that, to me, must be. There's a dopamine going. Lift the phone, man.

Your brain is like, this is boring. Let's do something fun. And so we try.

And, yeah, what can I do?

I would say you need A dopamine boost in the morning.

Okay.

So usually I recommend people get it. I mean, obviously movement is great in the morning. There's research. It helps with working memory, which obviously we struggle with. So something like that. But something fun like I wake up, no joke, and I have to feed my son. So I'll wake up, feed my son and play Stardew Valley on my switch. It's great. It has a few days, last about 10 minutes. So I'll play like a few days and then I'll get into my day. So, you know, sometimes that's what it is. And people say, I will, I'll play forever. So if that's. You don't do this, but there's something, something you enjoy, do it in the morning.

Great. That's what I'm going to try that.

Yeah, that's pretty good advice.

I love it. And I think about the habit trigger or the habit loop. So we've got like this trigger and then we've got the behavior itself, which is the habit, and then we've got the reward, which is obviously the dopamine off the back end of it. For people with adhd, you know, is it just as easy to install new habits or is it a little more tricky?

It's definitely more tricky. It can become kind of an art. You have to practice.

The best way to install a new habit is to tack it to something you're already doing. And I think this is the same for neurotypicals as well. I don't really work with people who are not adhd. But you know, if you already brush your teeth, this is a good example. Sometimes people come to me and they say, I want to do more movement in the morning. How do I do that? So I'll say, okay, well you can brush your teeth and wander around the house and do lunges and things like that. So if you can add it to something you already do consistently, it's going to really help. But the problem with ADHD and habit building is inevitably people will come back and say, well, I just forgot that I was building a habit. So we have to put a lot of external reminders into our world to tell us, like, hey, we're building a habit, this is the habit.

And so that could be post it notes, it could be reminders on our phone. It could be people that we love reminding us, hey, have you done the thing?

Yeah, I recommend all of them.

Okay, good. That's awesome.

Because, you know, you want to have multiple layers of redundancy and, and also because you're adhd. Don't start all the habits at once.

Yeah, pick one.

Yeah, pick one.

Great. Yeah. Essentially James Clear, obviously a very well known through Atomic Habits.

Yes.

Talked about habit stacking and stacking that on top of. So after I brush my teeth I will insert new habit. I think it's a very successful way to do it for sure.

Yeah, definitely. So I think, yeah, I love Atomic Habits. I think do that and then just remember you will forget that you wrote, you read Atomic Habits and you wanted to do this.

What impact does that have on someone's self worth and self love? When they're good humans trying to do their very best, set up with great intentions and they just don't follow through. They tell their friends, I'm writing the book, I'm going to finish the course and get the certificate. What does that do to their self love, self image?

It has a huge, huge impact. It's actually one of the reasons I love running a group program because people will get to share and you'll see these very, you know, people, other people think, oh you're doing so amazing. And then they'll share and people will realize, oh, they just like me, they've forgotten things, they haven't finished things. And it can be a real struggle, especially when you don't have the strategies and you really are wandering around in the dark a little bit. I do like to remind people though that ADHD does have strengths associated with it. Like this isn't just me making people feel good, this is what the research says. And you know, people with ADHD are really great problem solvers. They're really original thinkers, they really creative thinkers. So your ability to pull a solution out of a hat that no one else has ever thought about before, your ability to, you know, come up with a totally new idea while everyone else is still just riffing around the theme like those are also your adhd.

That's interesting. I'm thinking about a friend of mine from high school and if there was something silly to be done, we'd always know, hey dude, go and do the thing. And he'd always do it.

Yeah.

Very impulsive. And we found out later in life he had adhd.

Yeah.

And it was just so easy for us to go and do the thing and we wouldn't get in trouble, you know, like such bad eggs. But it's interesting and you know, I think about ADHD in women, so my understanding is that women are often misdiagnosed because men are boys. Yeah, it was kind of. We'll focus on Boys. Boys have this adhd. Let's pump the Ritalin or whatever it is they do nowadays into these young boys. Yeah, but women often, I hear, are they present maybe differently, and therefore the weight to their adults before they get a diagnosis. Why is that?

Yeah, it's a huge thing. And a lot of people who come, I mean, I think both genders have late diagnosis, but I definitely see it a lot in women. And, you know, one of the reasons is because of just the way that it comes across. So if you're disrupting the classroom, that's a problem we have to solve. If you're really trying really hard and trying, you know, masking, which is a term for basically trying to be neurotypical for your adhd, then that. That isn't going to be noticed. And so for a lot of women who have adhd, it was more of an internal struggle. So there's a lot of burnout in that way where people were, you know, not realizing that they were having to work extra hard to keep up, and that wasn't normal.

And I think medication is a real hot topic. And it's either, you know, some people say it's a magic bullet. Others would be like, avoid it at all costs. Yeah, it doesn't do a thing. It will hurt you. What's your thoughts on medication?

Well, I'm not medicated. So first of all, not that I have any issues with medication. I just had kids, and then I didn't end up getting medicated because I thought, why not be the most ADHD it can be? Gives me a lot of information to then turn into, you know, resources. What I have seen from people is that some people will take it and it will be a magic bullet. And I'll have never heard of them because, you know, occasionally they come into my world and they go, oh, well, I just took this and it was fine. Some people will take it. They will think nothing has happened, and then they will ask the people in their lives if anything has happened, and they will be like, yes, you are very, very different because it's. It's an external thing they haven't noticed. For some people, it doesn't feel like it's really having any effect, and it doesn't look like it's having an effect. And then some people will need, you know, there's multiple kinds and in different countries. So like in Japan, France, you know, there's different abilities to even take different kinds as well. And there's also shortages now around the world. So it's a journey is the Way I often describe it to people, it's, it might be a magic bullet, but it's more likely to be a journey.

And does ADHD have an impact on our mental well being? Like, does it ever increase our susceptibility, exposure to depression or anxiety?

Yeah, yeah, it definitely can. I mean, when you grow up with adhd, research shows you grow up with more criticism from others because you're even by, you know, people who have the best interests at heart. You know, they might say, hey, we just noticed you're doing something a bit differently. We want to guide you in the right direction. And that constant you're doing things differently, you're doing things wrong can then turn into self criticism later. So there is research to indicate that people with adhd, we are a bit more self critical and we definitely see that when we're talking to people.

Yeah, I can imagine like as a child, if you struggle to focus that say you're hyperactive and maybe you weren't reading, writing or mathematic at the same rate as everyone else.

Yeah.

Then perhaps you would be criticized as dumb, stupid, whatever the friends or people might label you.

Or even if you're doing, you know, really well in one class, really terrible in another, it's that spiky profile is often what we'll see.

Interesting. And for the person that wants to do one thing today, they've got ADHD and they're about to jump off from one app to another and do something different. But there's one thing they're going to do before they go and download. So I'll put that in the link. Download your help. What's one thing they could do today to kind of relieve that pressure of.

Yeah, my recommendation is reward yourself for starting a task, don't reward yourself for finishing a task. If there's one thing I want you to do, I want you to stop being like, I'm gonna give myself a reward when I finish this boring tasks. Chances are you're not gonna do it, you're gonna give yourself the reward. You know, at different times, try rewarding yourself for starting, for sitting down with the intention of getting some work done. Just see how it goes.

Beautiful. And for the leader out there that has a team that they're leading, what advice do you have for them? Let's say they don't have adhd, but they're listening to this because maybe one of their ADHD staff have sent it to them. They're listening to this, going, I see those things in some of my staff. Who do they need to show up as to let their team and their staff members thrive.

This is a great question. I actually worked with the New Zealand government a couple of times on this particular topic when ADHD was really coming into fruition. And the biggest thing to remember is that you want to have some kind of flexibility. People who are neurodiverse are going to need some differences, so. And they might not necessarily understand fully what they need just yet. Unfortunately, it doesn't come with a manual, so they might need headphones. That's a really common one. They definitely need a clock in the meeting room. If you're mad that they're taking too long in the meeting, then you should put a clock up that they can see. Otherwise it's just going to keep happening. And sometimes people need to turn up a little bit earlier, go to, you know, and a little bit later, you know, just so they can get a bit more quiet time to get certain tasks done. But all of these things are going to be helpful for everyone else as well. So this does not need. And this was something that came up a lot when I was working with the government. This does not need to be a neurodiverse only thing. If you give it to everybody, neurodiverse people will benefit, everyone else will benefit. It doesn't have to be, you know, one for one person, one for the other.

Amazing. And the government that you work with was this Lux and national or was this.

No, it was before. It was like in 2021, I worked with New Zealand Intelligence Service and then also New Zealand Health, so.

Incredible.

Yeah.

And because often when a government changes, there can be really good things that happen and there can be really not so good things. There can be a lot of good work that's undone. Is there anything our current government you feel now could do better or understand or help with in terms of adhd?

That's a good question. I mean, I think, you know, Chloe is always talking about adhd, so she probably knows more than me. I think it's always really important just to have an understanding that people are different and make sure that whatever you're doing is supporting people who are different, but also, you know, understanding that people who are different can succeed as well. Because that is. That is the thing that I'm very passionate about now is saying, hey, what if you're adhd? Yes, we need to give you support, but also, how do we get you a promotion? Because sometimes that is missed in the conversation. Sometimes people that I work with won't say that they have adhd, even though Their workplace is incredibly supportive because they want to become the leader and they don't feel like it's supportive for them to be the leader and have adhd. So that that kind of conversation comes in as well.

Amazing. Yeah. This is this whole stigma thing around it still there. And it's interesting. I in the past have used the word with ADHD and with autism. It's a superpower. And the more I, like read about it, I was like, james, that's not what you're supposed to label. That's not cool, actually. And it's just a really unique and incredible lens to see the world through. How would you describe it? Because I used to say it's a superpower. How do you like others to describe it and think about it?

Yeah, I think. I think a really great lens is a wonderful way to describe it. I like to say it's incredible. Strengths and weaknesses, you know, you have really big weaknesses and you have really big strengths. And so what I talk and what I teach about is how do we help support you in your weaknesses, which are there and they're real, so that we can focus on making your strengths the spotlight so that you can do amazing things.

That's beautiful. I love that. And these idea of strengths, of Clifton strengths and the via have strengths tests. Have you ever done any of those personality diagnostics?

I used to. I did like the Myers Briggs. I think I did the disc recently. Somebody sent it to me. I even did the Enneagram. Yeah.

Okay. And do you feel like for people with adhd it's challenging to do that? More challenging, because sometimes they take a bit of time to sit down and do it. Are there certain ones that you recommend for a person with adhd, but give that one a go?

I don't think I have a particular one that I would say. I think the Myers Briggs has always been the most popular and the most fun.

I think that it's really just about understanding yourself in terms of your executive functioning. Yeah. So whichever. Whichever personality you are, you're just going to be that personality.

With adhd, it's interesting, I was thinking about Stanford. So they've got the human persuasion lab, and so they got the smartest people in the world in that lab looking at how do we get you to click on the thing on your phone, how do we get you to stay on the app? How do we get your dopamine to fire up when that red little notification sign comes up? So they know how the brain works, they know how habit loops form. It's quite Cunning, Really? People with adhd, are they more susceptible to becoming addicted to technology than people that are not adhd?

I don't have research to back this up, but I think so. I'm very. Yeah, it. Because essentially what you're doing. And I think this is why people say this whole idea of ADHD is more common now, because there are a lot of, like you said, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars being put into understanding how your dopamine works and trying to hack your dopamine receptors in some way and probably always done this, but I feel like it's more of a conversation now. And so, yeah, if you have adhd, those dopamine receptors are much harder. I mean, I remember I worked with Simon Mundy from the BBC, and he wrote a book, and he said he had to put his phone in a lockbox in order to write the book. You know, you probably don't need to do that if you're not adhd.

That's powerful. Yeah. I think the phone shows up in a really powerful way for a lot of us nowadays.

Yeah.

Is there anything that you do to put some friction between yourself and social media?

Yes. Yes. So I. I've tried a bunch of different ways. You know, I've used freedom to turn off the apps, that kind of thing. Nowadays, my app is giving me good stuff. I've tried to aggressively teach it to do that, but in the evenings, I tend to switch to Kindle. So in the evening, I'll put my phone in my office, I'll switch to Kindle, and then my watch, which has my alarm on it, and that helps me de stress after the day and avoid my phone.

Beautiful. And anything else in that evening routine to kind of down regulate.

Switching to Kindle.

And then I just. I play Switch.

I love it.

I'm not gonna be. I'm sorry. Just don't meditate again.

That's awesome. I love it. I really do. Now, I think this has been just so insightful, and it's interesting. Whether I've got it or not. I just think it's helpful to know and understand because there's been people in my life who've clearly had ADHD I didn't know. And that's created friction.

Yeah.

Because I'll have expectations of, you know, maybe what should be done and at what time, and we agreed upon this and maybe it didn't happen, and that's just friction. And so now I can go in with the understanding of being more curious and look for some of these signs so that I can show up more patiently, more understanding. I think it's a two way street. It's not just the person living with ADHD that has to live in the world. It's everyone else around that person that goes, well, how can I actually just be more supportive?

Yeah. And also, you know, there's different kinds of people are going through the ADHD process in different ways. So they might not know they have ADHD even though you suspect it. They might know they have it, but they haven't quite gotten to the point where they're using strategies to support themselves. They might be building out strategies, but they're not working all the time. You know, some people are in that troubleshooting stage and all of those stages before you get strategies working and it starts to feel really good and you start to manage a lot of those weaknesses, they do cause conflict.

I love that. Is there two or three books, something about ADHD and learning anything that's really inspired you throughout the years that somebody could read?

I have an article, it's like a neuroscience article about the brain. I'll have to send it to you.

Send to the team. I'll make sure by the time we go live, it's in the show Notes.

Yeah, I'll make sure it's in. I'll send it to you. But you know that one, it's by Trippin Wickens from 2009 and it's, it's a, you know, it's a real seminal piece on, you know, it's, it's easy ish to read. Other than that. Yeah, mostly, mostly for me it's been academia. I, I tend to really dive into those, those spaces. But I know there's been a lot of really cool things, a lot of cool stories. I think what I love is that, you know, I had to turn off the Google alert that tells me when somebody gets done, you know, says they have ADHD because it's just went off every day.

I bet it did. I bet. And in terms of. I'm going to just plug for a second your podcast. So for anybody that's enjoyed this conversation that wants to know more about ADHD or is want to maybe forward this to a friend who maybe has it, I'm going to put a link in the show notes for your podcast.

Thank you.

People can come and join in that conversation.

Yeah, the ADHD skills lab, we really go through, you know, we interview amazing people like you. You know, we kind of go through entrepreneurs, people who've done really cool things and have adhd. We always Ask them at the end what their most embarrassing professional moment is. So if you feel like they're super cool, wait till the end and we'll talk about it. And then we have research sessions where we go through the latest research into adhd, what's coming out, and we take a friendly, critical look at it.

Amazing. I love it. Who are two or three world famous figures that have adhd?

Simone Biles is a huge one. I think that one really comes to mind. Other than that, gosh, you're putting me on the spot here.

Simone, I think she's. She's top of the pop. That's good enough. I love it.

Yeah, yeah, she's good. And then there's Richard Branson. I think he has adhd. He's definitely neurodiverse.

He's dyslexic. Definitely.

Yeah, yeah. I think he might say he has ADHD as well. He's cool.

That's amazing. And I'm gonna throw it back on you. So what's your most embarrassing professional moment?

You know, no one's ever asked me that. My most embarrassing professional moment is. Gosh, that one is probably. It's before I started working here, but there were a few times where I just would miss an appointment. Just straight up miss an appointment. And there is nothing worse when you have ADHD than looking. This was before I had strategies and I didn't. I think it was even before I knew I had adhd. But you'd have those moments where you just, like, you're so careful, you try so hard to be on time and you just miss something completely.

I've been there. Yeah, 100%. And just one last question I would love to ask you. So if we were to fast forward many years into the future and you were highly aware that today was your last day on this planet and someone very young came into the room that you love dearly, and they said, sky, how do I lead my life? On purpose? What would you say to them?

I think I would say you need to do what you love and you need to.

Bring other people into that vision and connect with what their vision is and align those. Those things together.

Beautiful advice. I love it. I just want to say I've really enjoyed today. ADHD is something I want to learn a lot more about. I now know I find the person who I can learn it from. So thank you so much.

Thanks. It's been really amazing to talk to you.

My pleasure. Thank you. Thanks for tuning in to Lead On Purpose. If you find this episode valuable, please share it with one person that you think might benefit from it. And if you're serious about leveling up, please make sure you're subscribed to the show and continue to lead your life on purpose.