5 Reasons Every Leader Should Get THERAPY with Jason VanRuler

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Enjoy the show. In today's episode, you're going to learn the five reasons why every leader and entrepreneur should be in therapy. Yep, you heard me right. We've got the author, Jason Van Ruler, who wrote get past your past and he shares some absolute gold in today's session. So please sit back and enjoy the show. Jason, a huge welcome to the Lead on Purpose podcast.

James, I am so glad to be here. I know we're going to have a great time today. This is awesome.

Absolutely.

And you know what? I want to dive deep into your work. You do incredible work. And something really piqued my interest. First of all, your book. I was like, okay, I need to read that. But second of all, you said something. It was this. There's five reasons that every leader or every entrepreneur should be in therapy. And I'm like, what? I need to listen to this. Like, this is fascinating. So for the listener that's listening today, that's a leader or an entrepreneur or a business owner, they're going to get some gold. But before we get there, I'd love to just ask you, why did you get into this line of work?

Yeah. So the answer to that is kind of twofold. And I always tell people, the first is that it was selfish, right? So I myself wanted to be better and to continue to grow. And so as a byproduct of that, I became a therapist because, hey, I'm already going to school. I'm already doing the retreats, I'm already doing all the studying. And so for me, there has just been this deep desire to continue to grow as a person. And I've always had that since being a kid. In fact, it's interesting. I journaled as a kid, which I know is lots of kids don't journal, but I did and I journaled. Someday I want to be a psychologist. That makes an impact with people. Like, I journaled that as a little kid. So I've always just been really fascinated by kind of how people improve and how people change. That's been super interesting to me. The other reason is kind of, like I explained, just to make an impact and help people. I think my whole life I've just felt like the greatest work I could do is help people be better. And so those two things have really propelled me into this field.

It's incredible. And, you know, the field itself is so complex and nuanced that there's so many different areas of it. And, you know, if we go back to your childhood, you know, were there things there? I think we've all got. If we're all honest, we've all got things that happened way back that were like, oh, I don't know if I should have seen that, or I don't know if that was normal that I experienced that. And some of us want to heal it, some of us want to hide it, but obviously when we hide it, it comes out in different ways. It festers.

Right.

Was there anything in your childhood that actually sent you on that pathway of going, hey, I actually want to try and heal that thing?

Yeah, Yeah. I think with my childhood. So I came out of my childhood. There was addiction and abuse, and my parents split up early, and we moved a lot. There was lots of trauma. And so if we just kind of went through a checklist of, like, all the stuff you wouldn't want to happen in childhood, I kind of checked off the boxes. And so I did what a lot of people do, which is that I just swore I'd be different. And so I just kind of declared, yep, I'm not going to live that way. That will never be me. And then, wouldn't you know it, in my early 20s, I was the same person I Didn't want to be. And so I remember just kind of catching myself in the mirror one day going, hey, remember when you said you were going to be different? Remember that? That didn't happen. And so now we have this really important decision to make, which is that we can run for the rest of our lives from all this stuff or we can stop and face it. And so in that moment, I mean, I'd like to say that I just made a decision and the whole world opened up and changed. I made the decision hundreds, if not thousands of times. But that day was really the first day for me that I said, if I'm going to do it different, I have to know what needs to change. So the problem that I had faced was I only knew what I'd known. And if what we've known isn't helping us, we replicate it. Unless we know how to do something different.

Absolutely. And what did that look like when you say, hey, I ended up being what I didn't want to be? What. What was that? What was happening in your life that you realized this is horrible?

Yeah. Well, I mean, I think I woke up and I was pretty hungover, so. So that wasn't the best start to my day. I couldn't find my wallet. When I did find my wallet, it was empty. I was on the verge of having my car repoed. My job wasn't consistent. I'd missed a lot of work. It's just what I had done is basically adopted this. This lifestyle of chaos. And so what I was realizing is that although I said that I hated it, it's what I was used to. And so in that space, I felt comfort. And that sounds really odd to say, but I felt comfort because if we live in the past, the future is predictable. Right. And so because I was just living in my past, I could predict what was going to happen. And that was comforting to me to know what to anticipate, even if it was bad.

And so the thought of changing that would have been highly uncomfortable. You would have been stepping into the unknown, into the discomfort. So you talked about hundreds, if not thousands of times. You're like, I need to change. Something needs to change. But you stayed in the disc. Well, you stayed in your known world, which was chaos. What actually changed? Like, what was the breaking point?

Yeah, I think I started asking questions. So I think for me, what happened is I decided in that moment, okay, I don't want to live this way. It is bad. I feel bad. I'm really struggling. There's lots of evidence that this is not working. And so instead of trying to just convince myself of something, I'm going to ask for help. And I don't even know what kind of help I'm going to ask for. I don't know the right questions, but I'm just going to find some way to start asking for help. And really what that was was kind of adopting the mentality of being a student of life. And so what I talk to my clients about is we want to be a student of greatness. And that's really what I decided, is that I'm not going to get it right the first time, but I'm going to ask people, how do I get better? And I've just not stopped since that day.

Amazing. I love it. And that journey of like going towards greatness, I guess that's a never ending journey because you're constantly growing, you're constantly setting new heights for, for your goals, right?

Yeah, it's ongoing. But what I needed to switch. So I think initially I did it because I wanted to survive and I think I do it today because I want to thrive. And so I talk to a lot of leaders who are in a position of pursuing greatness to survive. And it's exhausting. Right. And so you can have all the great things on paper, but if you're doing it for survival, to avoid the things that we don't want to look at, that's actually not helping you. And so there is a shift that needs to happen where we say, I want to pursue greatness just because I think I have the potential as opposed to because I have to prove my worth.

That's so powerful. And I want the listener just to think about that for a moment. And the way I look at it, so the world that I work in, when I'm coaching someone, say they're, whether they're on a PGA golf tour, whether they're a CEO, whether they're a professional athlete. There's a line, right? A horizontal line. And below the line is trauma. Below the line is deep anxiety, depression. Above the line is where I operate. And that's positive psychology. It's like moving towards the thriving. Right. But I can't actually go below the line. I'm not equipped to do that. That's not where I work. And what I hear you saying is, hey, I help get people from below the line. I get them right up so they can actually start to work towards the thriving.

Yep. So we do that. We help them get to the line and pursue that. Or sometimes I'll work with people who are just working twice as hard as they need to.

Yeah.

Because what they've learned how to do is they've learned how to become strong enough to drag the past with them. So they've still found a way to be very successful or a professional athlete or any one of those careers that we all hear, and we go, oh, man, I want to do that. They found a way to do that, but they're still dragging that along with them. And so sometimes it's helping a person step out of that survival mode. Other times it's just helping a person not have to work so hard.

How does a person know? Like, let's. Let's say it's. It's a leader of a really great company, or they're a founder, maybe even an athlete, and they're doing great things, they're making great money, they're in physically good shape.

It all looks great. The outside world thinks everything looks amazing. How would someone know, hey, it all looks good, but I'm actually dragging all this baggage. What are the signs, the telltale signs beneath the surface?

Yeah. Tell me about the quality of your relationships. Tell me about the people closest to you and how you interact with them, because that'll tell me a lot about your actual success. On paper, you can have the cars and you can have the wealth, and you can have all of those things that people really want to have. But if you don't have quality of relationships with yourself and others, I don't know that you actually have success. Because at the end of our lives, our relationships are what counts.

Hey, James here. I wanted to take a quick moment to let you know about something. Look, I get asked to deliver keynotes and workshops for teams and companies all over the world, from London to Antarctica, from America to Australasia, from Africa armies to small businesses to large corporates to sports teams. But I go in and deliver keynotes around the mindset of high performers, around the habits of high performers, about how we navigate change. If you would like me to come and speak to your team or speak at your conference or deliver a bespoke workshop, please get in touch with my team. Carolinejlochlin.com will be able to help. I'll also make sure that we put that in the the show notes.

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That's amazing. I love it. I'm seriously beaming with that because when I think of high performance, I look at it as performing above the standard norms consistently over the long term whilst maintaining positive relationships and well being. And that last bit is important. And I think for the, in the 80s, the 90s, the early 2000s, high performers in any field, it was just about winning, being the best, being the greatest at all costs. Whereas I think nowadays we appreciate we're not going to be high performers over the long term across the key elements of our life, that is relationships and well being, if we don't actually spend time working on those things. So that's obviously the area that you are, it's your zone of genius. And we talked earlier about the five reasons every leader or entrepreneur should be in therapy. What are those reasons? Why should people who are leading and are high performers, why should they be in therapy?

Yeah, well, every time I talk about this, people say, oh, of course he would say that. Right. And I will say this supports my business model. This, this is, you know, reason number one is Jason's got kids that are going to go to college. So that's reason number one. I'm kidding you though, because I'll tell you this and I'll go through the five reasons and we can kind of talk about them. But number one is just exactly what we're talking about. It's the quality of relationships and really that's relationship with self and others. Because if you have a poor relationship with yourself, you actually have poor relationships with others, despite what you might tell yourself, because we lack depth, vulnerability and authenticity. And so one of the reasons is relationships. I think the other reason to number two would be awareness. We don't know what we don't know. And so just like you, I have learned probably the most about myself from how other people have experienced. Me, I know when I do a keynote or I do something like that, or I work with someone one on one, and I get feedback about myself. That is really important information. And actually it's probably worth twice what, what positive information is worth when I get a negative feedback. Right. So. So you don't know what you don't know. And the farther along you get and the more success you have, the less likely people will be honest about the things you need to improve. So therapy is a great place for that, I think. Number three is emotional iq. Sometimes we're really good at certain things and we lack the emotional IQ to kind of support that. Some things that come to mind are sometimes people in more technical fields. They're great technically, but they really struggle with that emotional iq. And therapy is a great place for that. Number four, I would say, is the why. You know, we can think of Simon Sinek, but just even your personal why, what is your mission? What is your purpose? And is what you're doing actually supporting that? Because if it's not, we're working towards burnout, like, eventually that is going to end because the cards, the money, the success, it's just not going to be enough if we don't have a solid why. And then lastly, number five, and the one that really sustains it is intentionality. We want to be really intentional about the life we're trying to build. And if we're not talking through that with somebody, we're probably not taking the time we need to build it.

That's powerful. And my whole focus with the show is to lead on purpose. And when I think of on purpose, to me, that another definition of on purpose is intentional.

Yeah, absolutely. Because if we don't look at it. Yeah. If we don't look at it, we can't measure it. And then we don't know what we're trying to do.

Yeah. And that whole idea of emotional iq, people who often lack it, don't know. They. They lack it. And I'd love to ask how.

How would.

How could they right now, if they were listening, what would you say to them? Or what would you ask them that would help them realize, oh, I've got some growth to do, an emotional side.

Yeah. So if they were just listening right now, I might. The question I would ask, and I'm going to smile a little bit as I ask this, but this is always a question I ask people. How are you feeling right now? Where do you feel that in your body? And what do you think that's about. And if that question is confusing to you or you're not sure how to answer it, or it's overwhelming, we maybe have some work to do. Yeah, right. If you answer that question with, I'm feeling good, period. I'm feeling fine, period, we probably could do some work at explaining some of that a little better, because if we can't say it for ourselves, we're going to have a hard time meeting others in those places.

And for the person right now who's like, hey, I'm too busy to get a therapist. You talked about journaling. Is there a place they could start with self therapy before they can go, hey, I need to actually sit with a therapist. Is there anything they can be journaling on or asking? Maybe those questions you just shared, Is there things they could do on a regular basis?

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So I think you can write it out. You can actually have a paper journal and just write out. Usually the prompts that I would give people are, what's my high point from today? What's my low point? And what's the thing I'd change if I could? And then lastly, what's the thing that I want to celebrate or replicate? So those four things can be excellent written journal prompts. What I also tell people is sometimes they don't want to write. Sometimes people feel like that just doesn't come naturally. I'll actually do a voice memo of myself answering those questions because I'm a verbal processor. Then what I want them to do is I want them to read it back and say, what do I think about when I hear this? Do I sound like the person I want to be? Oh, man, I sound really negative or I sound overly positive. Right. I sound kind of disconnected. So read that back because that's valuable information and decide, is this in line with where I'm trying to go?

That's really powerful. And why those questions? Why those specific questions? How do you think that can serve someone in developing their, you know, self love, self appreciation, confidence? Why those specifics?

Yeah, because usually we're really more oriented towards one thing or another. So we're either we have an easier time identifying problems or celebrating, but we aren't usually great at both. And so what I want people to do is to get to be a little bit more dynamic and to be able to identify both sides. Sometimes that's really hard for them. I have a lot of people who are like, it's hard for me to identify something I think I'm doing well. I can only identify problems. So That's a good skill to develop, because guess what? If you can't do it for yourself, chances are your employees, your colleagues probably find it kind of critical. Right. And they probably find it kind of critical because you are. And so how do we develop that skill? Also, sometimes people have a really easy time building themselves up, but a really difficult time talking about the thing they struggle with. And so some of that humility can be an acquired skill as well.

And see the writing, hey, what I'm good at, what I feel good about sometimes writing it and going, hey, I'm confident I did this great. You can write it but not feel it. You know, it's words. It's almost like cognitive, that you've recognized it cognitively. How can you. If you're journaling, how can you distinguish between, hey, I've wrote that thing down that I've done really well, but I don't actually feel it? Where's the disconnect? And how do we actually build the feelings into what we're writing?

Yeah, sometimes we just don't have the language or the experience to connect that in that written way. And so what I'll tell people to do is, when you read that and reflect, can you tell me of a movie or a television show or a song that is representative of how you're feeling in this moment? So if you're not able to really say that, that's fine, but what symbol would we use to represent how that's feeling for you? And sometimes that's way easier. Right. Sometimes you're like, I can think of the exact song that I would use to sum up today, and it's this one or this reminds me of this movie. And that's all great, too. So do what works and do what's easiest. And chances are one of those things will be easier for you to identify when you think of it.

So helpful. Thank you. And negativity bias, which we all have. And we've got our amygdala, which is a part of the brain that's really protecting us. It's on overdrive often, a lot of the time. But we've got anywhere between, say, 30 to 60,000 thoughts on average a day, and way more than 50% of those are negative. How can we reprogram that so that we start to kind of rewrite the narrative at a subconscious level?

You know, James, my wife does not think I have that many thoughts. She says, I have about 10 a day, so maybe someone has that. No, I'm kidding. I always joke about that, but it's true. We have so many thoughts and our subconscious mind is always operating. And if that is negative, what do we do about that? I think the challenge is just to ask ourselves, is that still true today? What happens is we have situations where that is preventative to think that way, but they become outdated. And if we're not intentional about asking the question of is this still relevant today or is this message the one I need to hear, we continue to uphold these beliefs that no longer serve us. And so sometimes just asking yourself, is that actually relevant today or is that helpful today? Is a really good way to qualify what to do with that thought.

That's powerful. And I guess if you're under the spotlight, let's say you're a professional athlete, you're performing in the stadium, and you start to have those negative thoughts like, I'm going to drop the ball, or I just did drop the ball. How can you quickly come out of that under pressure, under the spotlight? Is there any self talk or any skills that you think could be really helpful when you're in the heat of the moment to try and get back to that positive outcome?

Yeah. So the word that comes to mind and the word that I talk to people a lot about is maybe. Maybe. So, yeah, maybe I will drop the ball. Maybe this deal that we're negotiating will fall through. Maybe I won't get this film deal the way I want. And will I be okay? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'll be sad, I'll be disappointed, but I suppose I'd be fine. So a lot of times the work we do in that instance is we do some. Some work on the self worth. So can I have worth and value even if I'm not successful? And the answer should be yes. And if it's not, we've got some work to do. And then if we know the risk that we're taking, are we okay with that? Do we still want to do it? So do you still want to play professional football if you know you might drop the ball?

I think most of us would say yes. Right, Jason, do you still want to do the keynote in front of the 2,000 people? Even if you might stutter or you might do something uncomfortable, do you still want to do it? Yeah, I totally do. So then we just kind of come to terms with, I'm making an active decision to accept the risk. I'm not denying it. I'm not running from it. I'm just saying, yep, that could happen. And if it does, we'll deal with it then.

That's really powerful. And for those who are stuck in a holding pattern and they're not going and stepping on stage, or they're not recording that live video, or they're not applying for that job, or they're not asking the person out on the date because of the fear of failure, fear of disappointment, what do you say to them?

Regret hurts more than failure every day of the week. Regret is the thing that'll get you. When we talk about people who are dying and what they talk about experiencing, it's the regret of not doing something they don't talk about, well, I tried and I failed, and that was too bad. They talk about, I didn't do it. And so I think the really hard pattern we get into is if we don't do things, we just don't do things, we get stalled out then. And so the fix for it is you just have to take a step. And so what I'll ask my clients to do is I'll just say, you know, you might have this big goal, but I want you to break it down into the smallest possible step that you could take tomorrow, and I want you to do it, and then I want you to take the next one. And so that's all it is, is we're just practicing. When we start to look at our life, kind of disconnecting ourselves from the outcome and saying it has to be like this, and instead saying, I'm just practicing, it allows us some leeway to try things.

That's incredible. And see, by doing that, by saying, hey, break it down into little chunks and take action on them, I imagine that has a really big impact on neural chemistry and just the different dopamines that get released. So is there anything from your experience in terms of taking small steps and small wins, anything that builds internally within our, like, say, blood or with our hormones?

Yeah, well, we build confidence, right. So a lot of times I'll get approached by someone and we'll say, jason, I really struggle with self confidence. And I'll say, okay, what are your goals? What are the things you're wanting to do? And they'll tell me, and I'll say, so what action are you taking towards that? And they'll say, well, I'm not. Right, okay, well, that's why you're struggling with confidence. Right. And so the more that we engage and take those steps towards our goal, the more confident we get because we're keeping our word to ourself. And so we can't manufacture a feeling if we're not taking action. So it's kind of like when you take those small, consistent actions, the confidence comes with that. You don't just get confident because you tell yourself to be.

And that's where it's like, visualization is good because you can start to create it, but actually you need to take the action towards what you're visualizing.

Absolutely, yeah. Otherwise we're living in a fantasy. And also, we don't know what we need to do till we try something. So sometimes I'll talk to a client, I'll just say, do you have five possible ways to solve this problem? And almost every time a person does, we say, yeah, here's five things I think I could do. And I'll say, go try all of those and then talk to me about what to do next. That's amazing, because the thing is, the problem isn't that we can't identify the solution. The problem is we're not taking action towards it.

Right. I love that. And that action would remove the doubt, which would remove the fear, and then we move forward.

So many times I do that with people and I follow up and I say, okay, tell me about what happened. They're like, I don't even need help. I got it figured out. And I'm like, I know, I'm telling you. I know you did. I know you could do it. But. But we get in this place of stuckness because we're overthinking it. And. And when we're overthinking it, we're too attached to the outcome and we're not attached to just doing the work.

Yeah, makes sense. And for the leader or the high performer that's listening right now, if they just keep pushing this stuff down and forgetting about it and the toxic relationships around them or the lack of self love, self health, nutrition, maybe they're drinking, maybe they're smoking, whatever it might be, what's the consequence if they let that compound and stack for years and years? What's the end result?

Yeah, it will become unsustainable. I talk about. I like to run. And if you're a runner, there's this term bonking. And so we bonk out. And so bonking out is when there's the finish line and you're 100 yards from it and your body just says, I quit. And you do that thing where you crawl across. That's how your life will be. Right. Because at some point you're not going to be able to finish because it's not going to be sustainable. And so the challenge is maybe today you can get through it, you can wing it, you can cope with it, but eventually that will not be true. And when that is no longer true, there will be significant consequences. And so my goal with people is always let's avoid that, because that's the messy stuff. So let's be intentional and catch it before that happens.

I love it. And the title of your book is really powerful, get past your past. And for me, we have all got a past, and some of us choose to live there, and some of us don't. And for those of us who tend to go back and live there, often it really holds us back, puts us in that holding pattern. So for the listener that wants to buy the book and essentially fast track and learn all of the ins and outs of what you do, what's in the book and why were you inspired to write the book?

Yeah. So what's in the book is all the stuff I wish somebody would have told me. And so had they told me that, boy, I could have saved a lot of time. So there's that part. But then there's also, over the course of my career, I worked with people just basically starting over again, coming out of prison to people who are literally making millions of dollars a month and more. And I've just found the same things to be true, which is that the people who are successful, they take that past, they actually pull the lessons out of it, and they use it as a springboard to the future. The people who struggle, the people who get caught up in it, they're the people who do not make peace with that. They do not deal with it, and they try to just drag it with them, and unfortunately, it pulls them back in. And so what I'll tell people is sometimes we set up camp in the cemetery. And the problem with that is there's nothing living there. And so this book helps us to get out of that stuckness, use it as a springboard, and actually get to our potential. Because our past, if we let it, can be the springboard to us getting to our potential. Because we have information no one else has. Yeah, right. Because it's been our experience. And so if we learn how to use that properly and into our benefit, that will actually improve our life instead of pull us apart.

Incredible. Well, look, if you're listening right now, I'm going to be putting the link in the show notes to the book. If you want to go and grab a copy of the book, I highly recommend that you do. And, Jason, I just want to ask if someone's listening, going Ah, I'm fine. Like, no, I'm doing good. And life's. What are some of the external things they might be doing to numb and just like low level numbing. So for me, I'll be honest, it was alcohol. So for me, I liked a couple of beers that might have been five, six, maybe even seven nights a week. Then there might be a blowout every three or four weeks. So for me, that was. I didn't realize it was a red flag. It was probably like a yellow flag that I just didn't see and it came up as a red flag and I had to change my life and how to address things in my life. What are some of those yellow flags? Little things that they might be doing to. To numb the past and not deal with it.

Yeah, I would say kind of like you spoke about. It can be like alcohol or substances, but it can also be diet food choices. It can be overworking. It can be struggling to have boundaries with people. It can be avoiding certain things that we know we really need to do. It can be feeling isolated and alone. And so when we feel that way, we can find ourselves in these situations we don't even want to be in, but we're in because it's easier than facing the thing we don't want to face. And so that coping is just to kind of sum it up more generally is it's where you find yourself doing a thing you know you don't want to do, but you're doing it instead of doing the thing you ought to. And so that can be lots of. It could be working out too much. It can be lots of different things. And everybody's got their own version. And some are definitely sounding better than others. Right. You know, they're like, oh, that guy works out too much. Not many people say that, but what's true is we can hide out there. And so it's. It's the things we do to avoid what we should be doing.

Wow, that really lands powerfully. You know, for me.

I had every night a large, like, bar of a Cadbury Dairy Milk, and it would be like six to eight minutes gone. Like, it's just like inhale. And afterwards I'm like, still gross. Why did I do that? I'm not doing that tomorrow night. That lasted for like a year. I was like, what's going on? So I had to deal with some stuff and realized that actually this is just like my little numbing technique. And it's not alcohol and it's not drugs. But I'll tell you What I knew I shouldn't be doing it. It didn't feel good. And this work that you do is crucial. And I've had therapy. I'm proud to say, hey, I've had therapy. And I hope that listeners will embrace it. Many will have had it already, but I hope they do embrace it. There's one last question I want to ask you, so we'll fast forward many, many years into the future. It's your last day here on Earth. And, you know, it's your last day someone very young, maybe a grandchild, comes into the room and asks you, jason, how do I lead my life on purpose? What would you say to them?

Wow, that's a great question. I think be honest with yourself, be authentic and be intentional. Right. But I think the intentionality only works if you're honest with yourself. And that's for better or for worse. Right? I mean, because we all had those things that we're really proud of and we want to advertise and we all have those struggles, which, by the way, that sounds. The Cadbury chocolate bar sounds pretty good. So I'm not going to judge you there. But we all have those things on both sides. And so I think the thing that I wish I'd known and a lot of other people struggle with is just. Just be who you are and work from there. Because if you're honest about who you are, it makes it easier for people to love you as that person. And then we can start to actually do the things that make our life better.

Incredible. Thank you so much for sharing that. And I know there will be a listener listening right now who needed to hear what you just said. So I sincerely appreciate the work that you do. I appreciate you for making the time also to connect with the audience.

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. This has been wonderful and you had fantastic questions. I really enjoyed it.

It's been amazing. Just. I look forward to connecting again soon.

Yeah, me too.

Cheers. Thanks a million.

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