Embracing the Underdog with Colby Sharma

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I'm James Laughlin, former seven time world champion musician and now executive coach to global leaders and high performers. In every episode, I bring you an inspiring leader or expert to help you lead your life and business on purpose. Thanks for taking the time to connect today and investing in yourself. Enjoy the show.

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Foreign.

Are you an underdog? Look, we've all been underdogs and there's.

Something about the underdog mentality that really gives you that hunger. And I believe underdogs are hungry, they're passionate, they're driven, they've got a lot of desire. And today I'm welcoming in bestselling author Colby Sharma. His latest book is called Underdog and look, he's a resiliency expert focused on helping organizations unlock greater resiliency in their teams to produce great work and master deep change. We went deep today in our conversation talking about what the underdog mentality is, how we can really unlock it, and that shadow self, how we suppress that and step into our greatness in these uncertain times. So please sit back and enjoy the show.

Colby, it's an absolute pleasure to welcome you to the Lead On Purpose podcast.

James, my friend, thank you so much for the opportunity. It's great to be here with you and your wonderful listeners around the world.

Hey, we've got an exciting thing to talk about today. You and I now you're already a best selling author, but you've just released another epic book and we're going to go deep on what that book is all about and why every leader who's listening, whether they're leading their families, whether they're leading organizations, teams or leading themselves, why they need to get this book. So let's get started with this. What is the key message from the underdog?

It's really a very timely yet very personal, yet very universal book on how to shed fear, eviscerate doubt, but most importantly, eviscerating self doubt and to own your greatest powers. That is the central through line through the book. Shedding fear, eviscerating self doubt and owning your greatest powers.

That's so powerful. And it's really interesting because I feel like self doubt is one of the thing, one of the things that really sits under most leaders psychology. We have this self doubt, this imposter syndrome. When the pandemics come along, when the life ambushes kick in, the self doubt kicks in like, whoa, am I the right person to do this? Where do I go next? So why is it important that the everyday leader can really embrace the underdog mindset to push through the self doubt?

Well, I mean when I started to write the book, it was all the time self doubt, there's so many pangs.

Self doubt that would introduce itself and then leave. Introduce itself and then leave. And you know, it was, I was faced with a lot of self doubt writing this book especially because I knew that a great product was in the office. It was only by getting through self doubt that I was making it as good as can be. Retooling the language. Even up until, you know, three days ago, I was retooling the language. I got a proof copy, retool the language. So for your wonderful listeners today that are leading teams, that are leading organizations, leading themselves, leading families, it's important to push through self doubt because that is the way to get through to unlock your high performance self by embracing self doubt. And you know, self doubt can lead to ego and we can get into that in a second but only if we let. It's important to really embrace and sit with self doubt because that is how it's an incubation chamber for your higher potential. It's an incubation chamber for unlocking your own truest and highest potential.

And that's so to me that's empowering to say, hey, sit with your self doubt. This is not something to be avoided. It's that whole idea of the shadow Self and we can push it down, but it's going to come up in ugly ways. And so what you're suggesting is that we all actually need to sit with and highlight, like get a spotlight and highlight that self doubt. So I love to go tactical.

Self doubt is a friend. It's not an enemy, it's a friend. Actually, it's a companion. But it can become a very dangerous thing if you let it become that. And it's very important to, to have that mindset and really not just having the mindset, but calibrating that response. So when self doubt comes, we're not in this egoic kind of trap. And we see that from Freud. We're in perpetual tension between the heroic self and the egoic self.

Yeah. And that's so vital, I think, for us to all understand, you know, the response to stress, the response to adversity really dictates where we move. Right. So let's get tactical because I know that my listeners love takeaways and love tactics that they can really embrace both for themselves and the people that they lead. So how do we first of all become aware of that self doubt? Where does that start?

Well, it starts at the conceptualization of I want to do this project or Q4 is coming up and I want to.

Embrace this new strategy that the other board might not sit with. And you're faced with the self doubt and it's important to marinate in the self doubt. It's important to really say, okay, others are doubting me. How much am I going to be willing to doubt myself in the furtherance to this objective? You know, I share this model, it's called the windshield wiper method. And if you're faced with self doubt and you're faced with, you know, lacking a purpose and you're lacking, you know, that clarity to push forward. Allow me to explain. So imagine you're driving your car in a road in a rainstorm and rain is coming down on the windshield. But when you activate the windshield wipers and it starts to remove the droplet, one droplet at a time, when you believe in yourself, one strategy at a time, going incrementally, when you believe in yourself one day at a time, the self doubt recedes. And then what comes is clarity, comes with vision to go forward.

I love it. I love that kind of the visual of that. And when I hear that, the thing I hear is this. You can choose to be a self beater or a self builder, but to be a self builder, it's a daily incremental Commitment to building that muscle of belief.

Exactly. You know, as I share in the underdog, I mean, we're leading teams. I have this concept, T H E R E the human experience required for excellence. We have to. We are a foundation of people that have ultimately succeeded over self doubt. And it's a time for us to embrace our own potentials, other strengths, and not be afraid to say, you know, I'm having a trouble with this, can you help me out?

I love it. And Colby, in your life, where have you been the underdog? Has it been, you know, back in high school, has it been somewhere in your adult life, where have you felt like you were the underdog?

Definitely. So, I mean, I think I've been an underdog more so than I've, you know, really, really succeeded. If that seems a bit strange, you know, I was an underdog. When I was a teenager, I had a learning challenge and I went to a special school I was taking out of my normal school. I went to this special school and they're really, I think it was my X Men moment. You know, it was a school filled with unique individuals, were taught by, you know, real life Professor Xavier. And really that was a self doubt moment because I remember asking my dad, I'm just like, do I have to go here? Is this really necessary for me? He's like, yes. And it is. And this was in, you know, 2005, 2006, as the school year began. But that experience was the most profound moment I've ever had. You know, I met my best friend. I was a real life example of neuroplasticity. I was changing my brain in real time. You know, I was implementing so many unique and cool ideas. Then fast forward, you know, 17 years on, I was an underdog as a lawyer in a firm. I was with in several firms that I was with and, you know, navigating that process. And I remember I was at a, I was at a corporate commercial firm and I brought a client in my third day on the job, I brought in a client to a law firm I was with. And I remember I was getting, you know, plaudits from the associates. I was getting, congratulations. But my boss never saw what others saw in me. And I said to myself, this is not the right environment. I can't truly become successful here.

And that would have taken a lot of courage to actually come to that realization and go, this isn't for me. You know, most people dedicate their whole lives to becoming lawyers and obviously you pushed through difficult challenge, personal challenges, learning challenges to Become a lawyer and arguably it's one of the hardest things to get into. Right?

Yeah, it took a lot of courage and it really took a lot of self belief, you know, in what is the bigger picture? You know, what is the bigger picture, you know, to you people listening today, what is the bigger picture at this moment, the next quarter, the next year, what is the bigger picture looking like for yourselves and for your families and for your teams?

Yeah, it's important to take that time to reflect on where you are headed. And I think that, you know, reflection, which I think it's something you're very good at, is reflecting on. And in the book it really comes out that reflecting on the past, past behaviors, past experiences, past fail years, we've got to reflect on that before we start to move forward. So what do you do?

I'm a huge fan of the past. I'm a huge fan of the past. And it was very deliberately written, you know, recalling the past. There's this, there's this concept it comes from, it's a psychological concept, but called euphoric recall. And really when we're faced at our lowest moment, we recall instances of jubilation that excited ourselves and it tricks our mind into believing that it's going to be all good again. Now when we think about the past, we think about our past moment, past successes, we have to be willing to be mindful that I'm going to only look to the past because I'm faced with this moment, the flight or the fight syndrome. And I'm going to be willing to say to myself, I have overcome this in the past, I can do it again.

Yeah. And that's a crucial thing, is not to kind of live in the past where it defeats you, but live in the past where you can learn and build on that.

Exactly, exactly.

And tell me this, if you were to describe an underdog to the listener, like what is the mentality and the mindset of an underdog?

Hey, James, here.

I wanted to take a quick moment to let you know about something. Look, I get asked to deliver keynotes and workshops for teams and companies all.

Over the world, from London to Antarctica.

From America to Australasia, from armies to.

Small businesses to large corporates to sports teams.

But I go in and deliver keynotes around the mindset of high performers, around the habits of high performers, about how we navigate change. If you would like me to come and speak to your team or speak to speak at your conference or deliver a bespoke workshop, please get in touch with my team. Carolinejlochlan.com will be able to help. I'll also make sure that we put that in the show notes.

It's someone who's been willing to embrace punches left, right and center. Someone who doesn't give up. Someone who, you know, whose best friend is face down on the boxing match because they're willing to take the punches and succeed and go to where no one has gone before in the furtherance of their goals and their purpose. Now, when I wrote the book, I had this thesis in mind. And so too often we think about an underdog. We think about rags to riches, some kind of socioeconomic deprivation. But I wanted to turn it on its head. And it was very challenging to write how to turn it on its head. But really it's about saying that an underdog is. Can flourish in circumstances as opposed to status. You know, we don't have to be, you know, down and out all the time to be an underdog to. And I wanted to really reconceptualize that phrase because I think it's. That phrase is past and sell day. And I think we can embrace it anew. We can embrace it when things are not going right this quarter. We can embrace it when we're forced to leave a firm or forced to leave a job that we love, or when we have a heartbreak of some sort. We are all underdogs in that moment.

Powerful. What about a team, you know, from a team or an organizational standpoint, the underdog team, you know, whether it's the Liverpool back in the mid-2000s, they were the underdogs. Like how do we pull through? So what do you think about in terms of advising someone who's leading a team? How does that underdog team become the victor?

Well, you really become the victor by saying we're all a sum up our parts, you know, e pluribus unum. Out of many, one out of many strengths that we all, all hold individually. That's how we can create a bigger team purpose. You know, I'm a big fan of a standard operating ritual. We need to have that within our teams. What is a common set of practice, the definition of a ritual that we can implement across our teams in the furtherance of our goals and our purpose?

Yeah, I mean, rituals are really the basis of excellence when I look at our national team. So here in New Zealand we have the All Blacks rugby team and they're world class, world champions. But one thing they do at the start of every single game is the haka, which is an incredible display that the whole team is involved in. It's a spiritual experience for them. But that ritual grounds them to their ancestors, also grounds them to the present moment where they're going to battle. And it then inspires them to take action. So in your life, where have you seen great teams or leaders implement rituals? What kind of rituals have you seen that are like, just really simple but really powerful?

So I used to work for Canada's largest moving company, and every Monday he would have us in the boardroom and say, you know, here are the KPIs, how's everyone doing today? Where's everyone winning today? So that was like a corporate example, but in terms of like a truly team dynamic. I'm a big fan of football, soccer to your listeners. And Chelsea had a great manager, I think was Roberto di Mateo sometime in the early 2000s. And I love this, he got people, different nationalities together to sing songs in their native language.

Before a game or after a practice. And it brought everyone together on the same page. And I think that was such a strong sense of ritual and why rituals are so needed, especially in the corporate world. When we're leading teams that are formed of many different strengths, how can we take everyone's different strengths and mold them into one? So one thing we can do is that after KPIs have been discussed, after the strategy has been laid out, we can talk to one another and say to our teammates, what has been your personal journey to get to this moment? You know, and not just ticking off a box. So too, we're always prone to doing that when we're faced with hr. Where have you come from? What's your experience, et cetera, et cetera. But we want to get deeper. We want to get singular on unlocking people's resiliency, unlocking people's potential. The only way to do that is have an open space. An open space, a welcoming space. And you do that by creating deeper empathy, creating deeper connection. So you can say to your teammate, where have you come from? Honestly, talk to me. Where have you come from? What's your journey been before you started on this team? Could do it on a whiteboard. You can take them up for coffee on your lunch break, wherever you can find the time to really get to know your colleagues. And I think it's ever so vital in this post pandemic corporate environment.

Yeah, you're absolutely right. People will not trust you until they know you. And they can only know you when you take the time to invest and be curious.

Exactly, exactly. You know, we. I have a saying, you Know, I think empathy is the greatest and scarcest resource at the same time. It's scarce because we don't use empathy enough, especially in the corporate environment. We don't empathize and say, you know, where have you truly come from, really? Shedding the mask. Shedding the mask. You know, shedding the ego. You know, there's a part in the Underdog, you know, when it talks about. About the mask, and the main character is about, oh, I had these wins. I had that celebrated career, and the guy's like, buddy, that's just a mask. What's lying underneath that, though? And it's so important to be willing to lift that lid.

Yeah, that's. I actually really loved that part in the book where he was coming into the AA experience, and he said, like, hey, like, I'm a success. I'm a legend. I'm a World Series champion. You guys are pretty much all hopeless, and I'm not, like, I'm fine. And it's so interesting, you know, when you look at behavioral analysis, whether you do a disc assessment or whatever way you go about assessing behavior, we all have this public mask. And my last live event, you know, with an 80 to 100 people arrive, and we were talking about exactly this, Colby, about the mask. And I said, every one of you has a mask. And a few of them looked at me like, what are you talking about? This is who I am. I said, look, I spotted you when you're coming in the door, and I watched your facial expressions. And when you were by yourself, nobody was watching your face. And your posture was one way. As soon as you walked into the room, your face changed. You started greeting people. Your posture lifted up. That's your mask. That's the Persona that you're trying to really push. So the Underdog mask, what kind of mask do you think an Underdog tends to resonate with?

It's saying, just leave me alone, leave me alone. You know, I'm not willing to be bothered by, you know, this petty discussion of the mask. You know, I don't know what my mask is because I've had it on for so long. You know, it's become like, you know, Leatherhead from Texas Chainsaw Massacre. It's become so welded on to me. Just leave me alone. Forget I even have a mask. But it's denial at the end of the day, you know, I think we have unconscious biases. I think we also have denial as well. And when those two get together, it's not good. So I think the Underdog wears a Tightly wound mask because he's unwilling to do the work, he's unwilling to look at himself, and however flawed he is. And I think whether we're showing up as underdogs in our relationships, getting on to Valentine's Day, whether we're showing up as team members, you know, CEOs, leaders, family members, etc. We all have a mask that we can seek to recede, seek to chip away and remove that ego. You know, you can say ego edging God out or you can say ego entry gates only. It's about how you reframe.

That concept.

Really. Yeah, I really love that. The way I think of ego is very similar. It's either it's everyone's greatest obstacle or it's everyone's greatest opportunity. And I've got the underdog, as this is an opportunity for growth. Now, for someone who's got a high ego strength, and that can turn up as a big weakness as well, and they don't recognize that their ego is driving a lot of their desires, how does someone become aware that they are not their ego? Is there, is there a method? Whether it's journaling or reflection, how would you suggest someone starts becoming aware of that inner ego?

Well, I'd say, you know, so definitely journaling about it, trying to be mindful about it. But you can't be mindful about something that you don't know exists. So I'd say if you read the signals that, you know, I can only do this job 4x, that could be a sign of an ego. If you need to use something as a crutch to get something done, where does that come from? You know, where does that really and truly come from? You know, if you look at, if you're with someone and you're vibing in the conversation, but you're only pulling certain amount of punches and you're not being truly transparent, you're not being truly forthcoming, that could be a sign of an ego. So it's about, you're right, these behavioral cues and these biases, but we have to try to be aware of it at some point. We have to try to truly, you know, acknowledge ourselves. And it could be just simple as looking in the mirror and saying, how did I show up in this egoic sense today or did I not? And just keeping a daily tracker mentally about, did my ego get the best of me at this moment? Did it not? And going from there, really, really powerful.

Thank you, Cole. We see with your first book, that was Curveball prior to publishing it, and then becoming best Selling author. Did you have that little bit of imposter syndrome, that underdog feeling?

Oh, totally, totally, totally. It was my first book in this field and, you know, I was. I was scared. I was scared. But I knew that my how and sorry, my why was, was bigger than my how. You know, I was writing for a specific audience in mind directly then to write for the broader public, because I was writing for the kids that I went to that special school with, that I had my learning challenge with, that, you know, supported me when I was bumping into them unconsciously in the halls in that school, you know, those small moments, I was like, yes, I'm writing for them first and foremost. And then for everyone else, I wasn't carried away with, you know, how it's going to do for the wider public. I had a, you know, I had a really clear purpose for writing that book. And then it was the action steps. You know, I wrote it on the subway to my job. I wrote it in a coffee shop. I wrote it next to my dad, you know, in our home. And just sitting there in quiet, just writing, writing, writing, writing. So it was a really unique process, writing that first book. And then 2020 came along and I started writing it in 2016. Four years later, this pandemic moment, I'm just like, I knew I had to do something with it.

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See, there's these beautiful gifts that come from these challenges. The pandemic being a global challenge that we all experienced. And it's great that a gift like Curveball came from that. And to me, leadership.

Ironically, sorry, it.

Was always going to be called Curveball. Always.

Isn't that amazing? You'd kind of like that little synchronicity. And within these whisperings that were saying, call it Curveball and then along comes Covid.

Yeah, exactly.

I love it. And hey, I was thinking, you publish a book, you become best selling authority. Now a lot of people are one hit wonders, right? And they're like, we've done it. I'm best selling author, let's live my life based on that. But great leaders know that leadership is not a destination, success is not a destination. It's truly this ongoing journey. So to me, I think it's even harder to start writing a second book and then takes even more courage to publish the second book because there's a risk that, hey, I'm going to not make a bestselling author now after reading the book. I know you are, but that must be something you toyed with, was like, how do I step into that courage? So would you mind shedding a bit of light on some of the thoughts that were going through your head after Curveball did so well and then this courage to step into writing another book.

So I started to write the underdog more than two years ago. So January 2021. And I was just like, I knew I had to make this irrespective of whether it would have, whether we would hit in the future the sales of the Curveball. But I had to say to myself, this is going to be my most personal book. I'm going to share things in this book that I might not have shared in the Curveball, but yet it's Going to be the most universal book because we've all been underdogs, we're all operating as underdogs, whether we want to say it or not. But this is the post pandemic world we're in. You know, do we work from home or do we not work from home? You know, how do we split our time while caring for ourselves and our families? So it was going to be. I said to myself, those are going to be the key metrics.

Were the foundation for writing the Underdog. And then I said to myself, what would I say in this story? And then I was just inspired by books that I just love. You know, I wrote the Underdog in places around the world that are truly myself. I went to law school, started very grateful to be there, in the Cayman Islands. I finished in Liverpool. I live in London. I have been on vacations in Italy. I adore Italy.

I started to flesh out a story and I said to myself, I wanted to take Bryce down a notch because I'm really inspired by books that are like, you know, thrillers, you know, Grisham, the Firm. I love stories like that. And taking that inspiration and really making it into a world that was my own. With the characters from the Curveball.

Yeah, it was incredible. I really, really enjoyed. I felt like I was on that journey with you. And probably the reason I resonate with your style of writing is that I want to have something tactical I can really apply to my life or to my clients. And that's what I really love about that style. And, you know, when I think about you being the underdog, you know, before you started writing Curveball and the Underdog book itself, you know, that mentality of, how do I get there? Now, I firmly believe every underdog has one or many great mentors, coaches, leaders, role models. Who in your life has been really instrumental in helping you as a mentor or as a role model?

My dad, first and foremost. Definitely. Definitely him. I mean, the inspiration, the guidance, you know, just the times together, you know, the tactics, you know, I mean, writing the book and having his guidance right next to me just in a very visceral sense was just. He's just been incredible in his support and his love and is just his inspiration in this career and in the law career and just guiding and saying, I'm going to support you no matter what, and I'll always be there. So my dad, 100%.

Richard Branson for being authentic with that learning challenge and saying to ourselves, saying to the world, you know, we are underdogs, but that's okay, because we are meant to do the things that only we can do, only we can see, to do things in a new way, to shift our perspectives anew. And I think that's what's so important with this, like, underdog message. And it's, you know, universality. You know, we all have been underdogs, even though we've been doubted, even though we've been called names, even though we've been, you know, discounted and discouraged and, you know, ideas disproved. But this is our moment. This is how, as an underdog, we can truly, truly shape the world as we see it.

I love it. And you had your dad there, and you had Richard Branson. So one person who's very intimate, very close to you, and then someone that you're learning, possibly from afar and watching and being inspired by. Now, how important is it as an underdog, as a human, as a leader, to really protect that sphere of who you let into your inner circle? How important is it to get the right people around you and keep the wrong people away?

It's vital. It's vital because, you know, even as an underdog, especially as an underdog, I should say, you know, we're in this unique moment where, you know, people are discounting us. People are actively out to diminish our potential. And I think when we have that mentality, when we have that, you know, I have so much to prove ultimately to myself, but. And also to the world who have doubted us. I think of Michael Jordan, you know, when he was cut from his high school team. You know, he went back to his brother Larry in North Carolina. Let's go. Go again. Let's go again. Let's play pickup. Let's play until our. We can't play anymore. You know, I think that mentality of that underdog, no, that unrelenting this, that, you know, perseverance above all else, that, you know, that audacity to really claim, you know, our time in the spotlight as an underdog. I think that's so vital to have. So we have to be very cognizant about who we let in in this special moment, because it's like we're being recreated anew in this moment, but especially for this moment. And we have to be willing to really be vigilant and very vital about how we spend our resources.

Good advice. And, Colby, sometimes the people that are closest to us, it may be our longest standing friends. It could even be family. Sometimes some of them are not the most positive influence. Sometimes they are our greatest critics. So what's your advice to the person who has some of those really close people? How can they just create a bit of space or gently create a bit of distance between themselves and these critics?

Well, I think kind of the first signal you want to check in is, are you people pleasing. Are you people pleasing your families, like your friends, you know, colleagues, co workers, really check in on that. I think the second thing is really trying to create, like, a boundary as much as possible, you know, can go incrementally. Creating a boundary can start with, you know, I'm not going to do X if Y is not done, and you can just go from there. You can just build on the boundary. Build on the boundary, Build on the boundary. I think it's harder as a family because you could have some blind spots, but it's important to really overcome that. And we do that by going incrementally, you know, shedding out of perfection and embracing inner reflection and saying to ourselves, you know, I'm doing this for a purpose. It's not against you. It's not to be antagonistic, but it's to be realistic with my energy and my resources and how I'm willing to show up as an underdog in this moment.

Thank you for sharing that. And I find authors fascinating. I think the authors are some of the most courageous people on the planet because they literally open their souls and their hearts up for the world to read and either celebrate them or criticize them. So that takes a lot of vulnerability. So I want to know, how do you manage your vulnerability? How do you express it? How do you step into the world and go, you know what? I'm publishing this bad boy, and I'm putting it out there.

You know, when I was trying to publish the Underdog, a lot of people said, you know, is this the right moment to publish it? Should you wait a second? Should you wait a week? And it was just like, should I listen to that, or should I go full speed? Or how do I calibrate the strengths and the speed at, you know, in terms of how do I get this out into the world? So I think to go back to your question.

It'S really saying that, what am I meant to do? Really going, gut instinct and trusting your gut and trusting your instincts, because you only have your gut and your instincts to rely on. No one else is going to really say, here is the roadmap to accomplishing the seemingly, like, audacious goal. So you have to really, you know, trust your gut. And, you know, I was lucky. I think I Learned from my experience with the curveball, you know, what do I trust? And really getting in to detail with, like, how do I become perfectionist about certain details? What am I willing to really, you know, leave out?

And being vulnerable, but in a way that really makes the story shine? And I think about vulnerability on a scale, and we can. I think the Japanese have a great proverb on the three selves, there's one self you share with friends and family, one selves you share to the world, one self you keep hidden in a box. So I think when we're talking about vulnerability on that spectrum, what is a vulnerability that would be great at this moment, that would highlight the strengths, that would highlight and really make the story pop that people can resonate with, especially when you have a universal message like an underdog and how it would just shape the message.

Powerful. And, Colby, one thing I've read about the great authors, the prolific authors that just keep on putting out, as soon as they've public sent the book to the publisher, their habit tends to be very quickly thereafter, they start writing the next book because they are authors, they are writers in their DNA. So for you, people can get underdog right now. And in fact, just for a second, before I ask the question, I'm going to just say for the listener, I know most of you are listening on a mobile device, please, if you're not driving, or if you are driving, pull over right now. Go to Amazon and order Underdog by Colby Sharma. Get it ordered. Support this amazing author, enjoy the book and see how it impacts your life. So I just wanted to put that out there to tell people.

Thank you now.

You're welcome. So for you, what's the next step? What's. What's Colby's dream like? Where are you headed as an author? Where are you headed in life?

I want to help as many people as possible realize their own true underdogness. You know, I think underdogs are incredible people. I think, you know, people shouldn't be discounted because they've overcome something tremendous. I think that is the beauty about being an underdog. You know, we have been discounted so many times. We've been on this journey to prove, most importantly to ourselves. So I want to be there with people to unlock their greater resiliency and their own underdogness and really help people with my, you know, authenticity, message, etcetera, and through my books and my speaking.

And we're going to talk about your speaking in a minute as well. I really want to dive into that. But with the Books. Have you got any inklings or whisperings of what the next book might involve or where it might take you?

Honestly, no. Honestly, no. I'm just like, great to be here right now in this moment. It's coming out soon and just going to be sharing with as many people as possible on lives anywhere I can. So I don't have anything concrete about the third one right now. But I'm just grateful to be here in this moment and just relishing it. And hopefully people would like what I wrote.

Well, that's right. And they'll keep buying every book you put out there. You know, certainly from the curveball, the feedback was just incredible. So I'm looking forward to seeing the feedback as well with Underdog. Now, let's talk about your speakers. Because great speakers can really move people. Great speakers can inspire people to action. Great speakers can change people's lives in an instant with one line, with one tiny little insight. So what is it about speaking that you truly love?

So I've always been a people person. I've always been. I said people person, not people pleasing person. So people person. I love connecting with people.

I love, you know, networking, building great relationships.

You know, I debated in high school, I mooted, mock trialed in law school. So I've always been very natural in front of others and talking and sharing a message, whether that's like an oral argument or a debate, etc. So it's very natural to be a speaker and I just think I have something to share. Unlocking your greater resiliency in your teams to do great work and master times of deep change, specifically for the younger employees and team members and companies and organizations. They've come through three and a half years of pandemic isolation, job closures, restrictions.

We're forced to come anew in this moment and think it is like the pre2019 working environment. It's not. We need a new playbook for this new time in the world, 100%.

And when you think about that playbook, you know, leaders have got to lead those others around them, but they've got to lead themselves first. So how does an existing leader lead themselves right now so that they are equipped to actually help these young aspiring leaders to that next level?

Start by going back to basics, you know, implementing a standard operating ritual. Number one, you know, creating an open space, a safe space, number two, really getting to know your team members, really truly getting to know them, not because you're forced to know them. There's a huge difference. Really trying your best to figure out their journeys, where they've come from, and instilling that as a practice amongst the wider organization. So you have, you know, quarterly, like get togethers, where you talk about really deep stuff that is affecting your co workers and your team members. I think number three is acknowledging the fact that, you know, we don't just have economic crises, we have an adaptability crisis. We have to be willing to adapt in times of deep change, adapt ourselves to post pandemic world. And I think numbers four and five get back to basics, Having a mindset of tabula rasa, blank slate, shedding perfection and embracing inner reflection, really implementing practices that are not solely focused on KPI driven, results driven, but where people can feel the best at the workplace, even if they are going to maybe leave your company. Really acknowledging the fact instead of belittling and holding that in, really acknowledging that, okay, I did something right to foster a community and a culture now that this person is choosing to go, but she's going to take something great from this experience.

Great insights. Thank you, Colby. And I was also just thinking about underdogs and underdogs are hungry. Underdogs want to eat. They're willing to fight. And often when an underdog becomes a victor and let's say a world champion or an Olympian or Fortune 100 company, whatever it might be, often what got them to there won't get them to the next stage. And sometimes they revert and get a bit complacent. So when an underdog, and there might be someone listening right now who was an underdog and is now a victor, but that can easily slip away. So what's your advice to someone to always maintain the hunger of an underdog?

I think really looking to the past is powerful. I think thinking about a time where something was viscerally taken from you, viscerally taken from you, what was an opportunity or your chance to do something, you know, como the cost of missing out, what was something that was taken from you and really marinating in that thought and in that feeling, because I think it'd be pretty powerful, you know, what was something that was taken from you and you're striving to get it back. I think when we go down to that level, then it's like, okay, playtime's over. The underdog mode is engaged and we can go through that again and again. I think going back to the curveball, sometimes we have to lose something to find everything. I think it's in loss, it's in tough times, it's in adversities. And I don't mean to advocate for that in a detrimental sense to anyone, but loss, as in when the ego gets diminished and chipped away. Loss, as in when something was taken from you. That's what I mean. So when you get into that mode, you're like, okay, I can do this. I'm willing to be hungry in the pursuit of my goals, and that's it.

I think that hunger is the one thing that drives the grits. And certainly people who are winning 4, 5, 6 back to back championship titles or awards, it's easy to get complacent. But if they keep coming back to what you write about, which is that underdog desire, that burning desire to succeed, I mean, it's going to fuel them to stay at the top of their game. I think.

Totally. You know, we go back to Jordan. I, I think Jordan, in my opinion, is the greatest of all time. You know, what was taken from him was the spot on the high school team that was taken from him. So when you tap into that and you hold that within you, that is a powerful feeling to keep tapping into again and again and again. Especially when we get to, like a success, when we get to the next milestone and the next deliverable is done, what can we keep doing again and again to shed that formula?

And for the listener that's listening right now, I would love to challenge you to think what was taken from you in your life? What was taken and why did it mean so much? How did you feel about it? And why are you committed to never letting that happen again? And I think that's fuel, right, Colby?

Totally. It's the most potent tool for sure. I think what was taken from me.

When I went to the special school, what was taken from me was those couple years that wasn't in the normal school. So I didn't have that normal kind of friends, that normal kind of experience, which was okay because I made up for that. But those kind of years were, were hard because I was out of a school, I had to get added tuition. But that molded me, that shaped me, that really fortified my hunger, my drive. And that experience led me to high school in the university and law school.

Yes. Incredible. And when you look back, you know, at the time, it would have been tough having to move to this school, but now you look back on it as a gift, right?

Total, absolutely.

That's a mindset shift. We can look back with like, resent resentment, but you're actually looking back with total appreciation.

Nothing but pride, nothing but, you know, good memories, happy memories.

I remember, like, when I was first at the school and I was having a tough time acclimatizing to that school, but they said, okay, we're going to go through it incrementally. We're going to set you a daily and weekly goal to hit in your respective exercises. When you hit that goal, you know, et cetera, it's going to get easier, etc. You're going to build capacity to go at it again and harder. So I think that environment and being around people that really stimulized you, that stimulated me and forced me to really say to myself, you're okay. You're meant to be here, and we're going to help you get to where you want to go.

Yeah.

And you must be proud. I think being proud of oneself is such an important thing. You know, having other people be proud of you is great, but actually, you know, being proud of yourself, and I hope that you're at that point where you can really, truly be proud.

I definitely am. I definitely am.

Yeah. And Kobe.

Yeah, I love it. I love it. And I would say, you know, the two people that are probably the biggest role models in our lives, or maybe three, are our caregivers, our key caregivers. And often, you know, I look up to Nelson Mandela, I look up to Richard Branson, like you just mentioned, they're just great leaders. But actually, our greatest role models and our greatest leaders are our parents or our key caregivers. So if you think about your parents, what are some of the key values that you think they've instilled in you that have helped you become the Colby that you are today?

So what I take from my dad, I take, you know, hunger, persistence, attention to detail, really being, you know, not a perfectionist in a truly egoic way, but a perfectionist in terms of, you know, service in the product. Really perfectionist in terms of making the story as best as it can be, making the presentation the best it can possibly be. You know, just be willing to help others any single time you can, really serving others the best you can in a way, you know, never letting obstacles get in your way. My mom would just be, you know, one door might be closed, but 10 open. You know, being willing to really go on the back foot for several years until you find what you truly meant to do. Overpouring of love. Both are given tremendous love. Nurturing, great guidance, both of them. Yeah. I'm truly grateful to have incredible parents. Yeah.

And you're so blessed. Not everyone has that. And, you know, that is a blessing. And that's going to guide you through the rest of your life. And, you know, just to wrap up a little bit, I'd love to just spend a little bit of time thinking deep into the future. And if we were to fast forward and Colby, it's your last day here on planet Earth. And, you know, it's your last day. We're many years in the future and a really young individual, maybe, maybe a grandchild, just a really young child, comes up and says, colby, Colby, Colby, you've lived an amazing life. Can you please let me know how can I lead my life on purpose? What advice would you have for them.

Son, grandson, whoever you may be, I'm a perpetual overcomer of adversity. You have to be willing to perpetually overcome adversity in the furtherance of your dreams and in your goals, because that is the only way anything can get done. That is the gateway to leading on purpose and finding a fulfilled life.

Incredible. That's beautiful. Thanks for sharing that. And just as the listeners listening right now, I just want to thank the listener for listening deeply, taking notes, maybe sharing some of it with the friends. But please do me a couple of things. You know, leading is not just listening. It's taking action. So for the listener, please go to Instagram and connect with Colby Sharma. Make sure add him on follow on Instagram. We'll put it in the show notes. Also make sure to go to Amazon and if you're a reader, go there and get it and learn from it, share it with friends. And Colby, is there anything else you'd like the listener to take away before we wrap up?

If any of you are interested in in my speaking and how can I help add value to your organization can connect with me on LinkedIn, Colby Sharma, and at my website, www.colby sharma.com.

Brilliant. I'll put all of that show notes.

For my newsletter for the Underdog and its official release, Magic.

Hey, I just can't wait to hear over the coming months how this release and this launch goes. I'm here to support you. I'll be getting copies from my clients, so thank you so much for taking everyone.

Really appreciate it. Tremendous time with you all.

Thanks, Colby.

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