How To Lead with Love with Alister Gray

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What happens to us when we die? There's a real threat of my existence. Have an open mind and an open heart. With this, I became aware of a plant medicine ceremony called Ayahuasca. I was stressed, I was overwhelmed, I was burned out. My ego and my alpha male tendencies were like, just challenge. I'll take on that challenge. Your light, your energy is completely dim. I can only describe it as an awakening.

Welcome to Lead On Purpose. I'm James Laughlin, former seven time world champion musician and now executive coach to global leaders and high performers. In every episode, I bring you an inspiring leader or expert to help you lead your life and business on purpose. Thanks for taking the time to connect today and investing in yourself. Enjoy the show.

This episode is a very special one to me. It's not every week that I get to interview a dear friend. Now, Alistair is one of the world's most trusted and in demand coaches. He has worked with the Googles, The Nikes, the YouTubes, Dropbox, Lululemon, and the list keeps going on and on. Alistair has the most incredible filter of the world and in today's episode, we're going to shine the light on Leading with love. Yeah, you heard me right. Leading with love. And sometimes the connotations of leadership is it's got to be intense and really forceful and. But actually, when we lead with love and compassion and empathy, we create culture, we create momentum, we create results. And so in today's conversation, we go in so many different directions around how we find our shadow, how we embrace our true inner selves, how we develop purpose. And right at the start, in the first few minutes of our conversation, you, you're going to get to experience what Alistair is world class at. And that is meditation. And so we're going to do a meditation around awareness because let's face it, in our generation we struggle with focus, we're so distracted. But when we can get into deep awareness, it can have so many incredible results for every aspect of our life and our Leadership. So if you're driving, obviously you won't be able to do this, but you might have to fast forward that little bit. But please come back to it. It's the most incredible experience. I'm so excited for you to connect with the one and only Alistair Gray. Please sit back and enjoy the show.

Alistair. A huge welcome to the Lead On Purpose podcast.

James, What a pleasure it is to be here. It's been in the making for quite some time.

It really has. I am so, so honored to welcome you. And what's really special about this, I want the listener to know, is I always have incredible guests and I always feel really honored to have incredible guests. But this today's interview, this experience, this conversation is extra special for me because you're a dear friend, you're someone who I really. I'm inspired by someone I feel deeply connected to and someone who's coached me and helped me through challenging situations. So it's just incredible to have you here today.

Well, I feel exactly the same, James. You know, I was trying to figure out before we came on how long we've known each other now. And it's, I think it's coming up to three years after we met, you know, as part of a group experience on online and a training experience that we went through for 12 months together. And, yeah, it's just, you know, our friendship and our connection has inspired me in so many ways as well. So the feeling is completely mutual.

Well, I'm so excited, Matt. Thank you very much for saying that. And I guess the one thing I want to just probably address for the listener and just chat to you is the fact that in this day and age, there's such a lack of focus. And I feel it myself. I'm distracted by notifications and emails and commitments. And so I'm really focusing on how do I become more aware, how do I really embrace presence. And when I was in the uk, I sat in one of your amazing sessions. It was about 7 o' clock in the evening and I was awakened, awakening the love session. It was incredible. And your ability to hold space and heighten awareness is phenomenal. So I just wondered if I could put you on the spot and ask if for me and the listener who's listening right now, could you help us really become deeply present and heighten our awareness and maybe take us on a meditation?

Absolutely. Listen, I would love to. And it's, you know, it's interesting because quite often before sessions with clients and also if I'm giving any talks or workshops, I often begin with a meditation. So I would love for us to begin this conversation in the same vein. And of course, for anyone listening, they can join in as well, providing they're in a place that allows them to close their eyes and become still. Obviously, if they're driving their car, please, please don't do this at this time, you know. Disclaimer. Yeah, disclaimer. Exactly. But I would love to talk you through a meditation and like I said, invite anyone who's listening to join us as well.

Thank you.

Shall we jump into it?

Let's do it. I would love that.

Okay, Amazing. So I'm going to invite you then, James. And like I said, anyone that's listening, if they're listening at home or in the office or they can find a quiet or a comfortable space, then, you know, please join us. If you need to hit pause to find that space, then you can, and I'm going to talk you through.

Only for a few minutes, meditation that will enable us to bring our awareness into the foreground of our experience, to bring what I would describe as our innate nature into the foreground of our experience. And what this allows us to do, or should I say what this allows us to be, is more present. And from all of the work that I've done with.

Countless clients and hundreds and hundreds of students, possibly even thousands of students.

Allows us to, in any moment, as we move throughout our day, tune back into this essential nature and to find what I would describe as an inner sanctuary. You know, a space within ourselves where we can remember and realize that we are peaceful, that we are joyful, that we are loving, that we are present. And so this is a practice that you can do throughout your day. I call it cleaning the space. You know, you can pause for a few minutes and reconnect this space within us. So if that sounds good, James, I'd love to invite you into this space with me now.

Let's do it. I love it.

Okay. Amazing. So if you feel comfortable, you can close your eyes. And for anyone listening, if closing your eyes doesn't feel comfortable or you're not in an environment that enables you to do so, then you can soften your gaze and focus on a point in front of you.

And I'd like invite you to bring your attention to your breath.

And at this stage, we're not attempting to change the breath.

We're simply beginning to notice the rhythm of the breath.

Observing the breath as it moves inwards.

And outwards.

And you may find that your mind begins to wander. It's very Natural for it to do so.

And if that's the case, whenever you notice the mind wandering, you can bring your attention back to your breath or to my voice.

And pay attention to the in breath and the outbreath.

You can go ahead and see if you can take the in breath a little bit deeper on the inhale.

Possibly taking the breath into the belly and opening up the chest.

And then on the exhale, just allowing the breath to be relaxed and released.

Again on the in breath, taking the breath a little bit deeper.

And as you exhale, relaxing and releasing the breath.

Almost like a sigh.

And you can take another couple of those cycles where you take the breath a little bit deeper on each inhale.

And then on the exhale, relaxing and releasing the breath and also relaxing and releasing any tension that may be present in the body.

And now you can take your attention from the breath. You can allow the breath to settle to natural rhythm.

And you can bring your attention to the physical body.

Bringing your attention at first to the shoulders and the neck.

And noticing if you're holding any tension in the shoulders or in the neck.

And allowing that tension to be released and relaxed.

And softened.

And taking your attention to the jaw.

Again noticing if you're holding any tension in the jaw.

It's often a space in the body where we tend to hold tension.

So take a moment.

To relax and release any tension that may be present in the jaw.

Allowing the muscles to soften.

You can go ahead and take your attention to the cheeks and the muscles around your eyes.

And also the eyes themselves.

And again, notice if there's any tension being held.

And on the exhale, you can allow that tension be relaxed and released.

We often hold a lot of tension in the eyes.

Especially considering the amount of time we spend on devices.

And so let the muscles around the eyes soften.

Let the eyes themselves feel at ease.

And then you can go ahead and take your attention to your forehead.

And again, notice if you're holding any tension in the forehead.

With each exhale.

See if you can soften the muscles in the forehead.

And relax and release any tension.

And in this moment, allow the mind and the body to.

Settle and ground.

And in this space, see if you can bring your awareness, your awareness.

Notice how.

You are aware of the breath.

You'Re aware of the body.

Notice how you're aware of my voice.

Notice how you're aware of your own thoughts and the activity of the mind.

And notice how this awareness is always present.

Always aware.

Unchangeable.

And then into this space of awareness, you can welcome your breath back in by bringing your attention to the breath.

And slowly taking a deeper breath in.

And then as you exhale, relaxing and releasing the breath, let's take another deep breath all the way in.

And then relaxing and releasing the breath.

Let'S do one more deep breath all the way in.

And then exhale.

And as you allow the breath to settle to natural rhythm.

You can begin to bring some movement into the body. And as you do so, do so with full awareness.

Observing the movement possibly in your fingers and toes as you begin to wiggle them and bring your awareness back into the physical body.

And.

Then.

Moving the body in whatever way it feels natural to. In this moment, it could be distressed.

To stretch your arms or your shoulders.

And taking a moment.

Just to honor the space within you.

I always like to end the meditation by inviting you to place a smile on your face.

And in your own time you can begin to open up the eyes.

Can bring yourself back into this space in this room, but with full awareness of the physical body, of the space that you're in.

Welcome back.

Hey, James here. I wanted to take a quick moment to let you know about something. Look, I get asked to deliver keynotes and work workshops for teams and companies all over the world, from London to Antarctica, from America to Australasia, from armies to small businesses to large corporates, to sports teams. But I go in and deliver keynotes around the mindset of high performers, around the habits of high performers, about how we navigate change. If you would like me to come and speak to your team or speak at your conference or deliver a bespoke workshop, please get in touch with my team. Caroline jlachlan.com will be able to help. I'll also make sure that we put that in the show. Notes.

Alistair that was amazing.

We don't often get a chance to do that on the show and I hope that the listener has taken the time to really embrace their awareness. For me, I'm sure the listener can hear and I know you can. Right now that has slowed down my pace of thinking, it slowed down my pace of speaking. And I'll be honest, that's not intentional. That's the effect and the impact of taking time to go inwards and focus and be still. Now I resisted.

Meditation and mind for so long. I'm pretty fast paced individual that's always chasing things and goals and. And I resisted it. But when I let meditation into my life as a practice, as something that could help me be a higher performer, be a more fulfilled human, be more connected As a parent, as a partner, it was a game changer. So I want to say a huge thanks for creating that space for me and for the listener. That was really special.

As you might be aware, recently we made the decision to remove all adverts and promotions from the podcast. Why? Well, your listening experience is my priority, so we decided to remove them all. And in return, I've got a very small favor to ask of you. If you enjoy the podcast and the incredible guests that we bring on, can you please follow and subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify? Please also leave me a rating and review. The reason this is so important is the more ratings, reviews and followers I get, the more the show is promoted to other incredible people like you who really get lots of value from the show. So please do that. And also massive ask, please share this with three other people, people in your life. Share the show with them directly. Copy and paste the link. Tell them you've got to listen to Lead on purpose. I hope that it impacts their lives and it really helps me to grow the show. So I really appreciate it. And let's get back to the show.

You're welcome, James. And would you be open to me asking what you noticed as you went through the meditation?

Yeah. So, you know, for me, I do have a very active mind. And you know, for me at the start I was thinking, I've got so many questions I want to ask Alistair. So my mind was like, you know, I want to get questions on, I better not forget those questions. And then all of a sudden I was like, oh, I'm being not instructed, but I'm being encouraged to focus on a specific aspect of my physiology. And all of a sudden it became one thing. All I had to think about was one thing. So my attention was like honed in on the breath. I was like, oh, this is a relief. This, like I felt a sense of relief. And then as you went through my forehead and the eyes, I was like, this is so liberating to just for a moment switch off from the world and switch on to one simple thing, which is the physiology of the body. So yeah, I felt really relieved and liberated just by doing that for a short period of time.

Yeah, amazing. Thanks for sharing, James. The reason I ask is a couple of things that you, you mentioned. The, the idea of slowing down and how, you know, having known you and also the group that we're in, you know, there's a lot of successful, high achieving individuals and we tend to move fast as business leaders, entrepreneurs and that also tends to be the kind of general mode for society to follow. Everything's fast. We tend to take so much on now as individuals, we're balancing and spinning so many plates.

So it's not uncommon for us to feel a resistance to something like meditation, to even the idea of slowing down, because it kind of, in a strange way, feels counterintuitive, even though it's the most intuitive thing that, you know, that we could possibly do, because we're connecting back to, you know, that state where we're almost resetting ourselves to the factory settings. But it's really interesting because when I guide people through a meditation like the one that we've just done, quite often I asked them, you know, what did you notice? And things like relief comes up, freedom, liberation, you know, the things that you mentioned. And also, in some cases, a lot of awe and wonder and surprise at how much tension maybe someone had been holding in their forehead or in their jaw or in their shoulders or in their neck. And I delivered this to a group of business leaders last week, a similar meditation. And, you know, there was, you know, employees of this company saying, I never realized I was holding this, like, in my head and in my eyes especially. And I think even having that awareness of what is going on physically is a. Is a game changer, because you begin to notice I'm feeling tension in my shoulders. Maybe it's time for me to move, or maybe it's time for me to slow down or take a step away from the laptop or whatever it is. So, yeah, it's. Even though it's only a few minutes, it can be profound, you know, and to change the way that we are feeling, both physically, mentally, emotionally, and also spiritually.

No, it really does. It's incredible. So thank you. And I wanted to actually ask you. So, I mean, over the years, you've worked with some incredible companies like Nike, Google, YouTube, Dropbox. I mean, the list goes on the who's who of large corporates and companies. So what led you into the field of coaching and providing leadership training and just being really present with humans to help them be their best? How did you end up coming into that field?

How long have we got, James?

All day.

All day. So my journey is quite unconventional in many respects. And so, you know, the first thing I would say is for the listeners today is to have an open mind and an open heart with this, because I never, even if you'd asked me 14 years ago if I thought I would be teaching and speaking about mind, body, spirit, everything related to the Human experience and everything beyond that as well.

It wasn't anything, anything that I envisaged myself doing. And actually what got me here was back in 2010, 2011, I think it was actually the beginning of 2011, I was introduced to meditation for the first time by an ex girlfriend. So I was in a relationship. I was working in London for a marketing agency. I was tasked with completing and closing a deal which was worth over a million pounds to the company. And at the time, it was one of the biggest deals that they'd worked on, certainly in, you know, the two or three years that I was with the company. And there was just a huge amount of pressure. And every day going into this office, there was this expectation and this burden, a lot of which, looking back, I was placing on myself. But there was also external pressure, for sure, to meet this deal in this deadline. And.

It was a difficult deal to put together. It was complex because, you know, promises have been made to the client and it was challenging. And so. So I found myself in this space of working crazy hours, like waking up. It was on my mind, you know, constantly going throughout my day, it was on my mind. Coming home at night, facilitating calls at 9, 10, 11pm in the evening, it was on my mind. And my girlfriend at the time said, ali, you're changing. She's like, you're changing. You're not present in our conversations. Like your light, your energy is completely dim. She says, you need to do something about this, like you're going to make yourself unwell. And I already had. You know, I've been in hospital a few times with various different things because I was running a lifestyle that was working hard, but also partying hard. And so, you know, there was this kind of this hedonistic lifestyle at weekends, which was a whole lot of fun, but also was a release. It was a kind of form of escapism. And so, you know, she said to me, I think you should try meditation. And being completely honest, James, like, the idea of meditation for me was so foreign because at the time, it wasn't one. It wasn't really being talked about a lot, certainly not in my circles, but, you know, nowhere near the exposure that it's got now. And so, you know, there was no apps at the time that I was aware of that offer meditation. So meditation for me was. Was a foreign idea or concept, and I resisted it. I said, you know, I don't think it's for me. It's, you know, it's for religious people. It's not for me, you know, what is it? And so I resisted it. And to be fair to her, she persisted. And, and you know, a few weeks later, she said, there's a guy called Deepak Chopra who runs a 21 day meditation challenge. I think you'd benefit from it. And funny, because, you know, at that stage of my life, my, my ego and my alpha male tendencies were like, challenge, take on that challenge. And, and so that's what happened. I began, you know, participating in this 21 day challenge. And I would switch on every night. I'd put my earphones on and I'd listen to Deepak Chopra who's, you know, an incredible teacher, and he's got this softly spoken Indian accent that I listened to. And it had an impact on me. I did it for 19 of the 21 days. And I didn't want to admit it, but it was having a, you know, an impact on me. And so that was kind of my introduction into this field was. First of all, I was stressed, I was overwhelmed, I was burned out, you know, and, and I began meditating. And as I was listening to these concepts, you know, Deepak Chalk probably be speaking about these philosophies and ideas that, that made no sense. And actually I found myself laughing at first because he'd be talking about the field of pure potentiality, and he'd be talking about the cosmos and the universe. And I'm like, what is this guy even talking about coming, coming from Leith in Scotland, you know, growing up, these were not terms that were thrown around regularly.

The same where I come from.

You know, probably we've talked about this in the past, James. You know, I probably got similar experiences from, from our youth and growing up, but I would think, like, what would my mates think? What would my friends think about this? And, and you know, slowly I got over that. And I also realized that when I first began meditating, I couldn't concentrate for more than truly a second without the mind going a bit like how you said earlier. You know, the mind was wanting you to think about all the questions that you were going to ask. And my mind was just gone. So that was my introduction and, you know, fast forward and I'm sure we'll pick up on some of these threads. It led me to leaving that role around a year later and then embarking on a trip across the west coast of America. I went to Burning Man Festival a couple of times, and then I traveled down through Mexico and Central America and into South America. And it was during that time where I began meditating daily and, and actually I asked the question, if this can help me when I'm really stressed and I'm working in London, what would happen if I was to meditate each day when I'm not stressed and when I've got all the time in the world, really? Because I didn't really have much to do other than travel and go and see, you know, various different destinations. And. And that's. That's what I began doing. And as I was on that trip, I became aware of a plant medicine ceremony called ayahuasca, and that something was talked about, this experience in, you know, in one of my destinations that I was traveling to, and I heard that there was a practice in shamans in. In Peru. And so I kind of set the intention, you know.

This is something I feel called towards. And subsequently, it never happened on. On that trip because I had to come home due to my nana, who was. Who was, you know, reaching the end of her life. But that happened a couple of years later. I sat in a ceremony and, you know, that really was the thing that. That changed my whole direction in life and that, you know, my career, everything began to change from that point onwards. And at that point, I knew, okay, I'm to walk a different path. I was part of a startup recruitment company at the time that was scaling and growing very quickly. And I realized this is not the. The path that I'm to walk, actually. I'm to help people and I'm to explore this fascination that was developing within me around the mind, the body, and the spirit.

Thank you for sharing that, Ali. And it's interesting, a few things come up for me as you share that. And probably the first thing is the courage. The courage to go into the real unknown and not know what might come of it. And I think that every one of us, and I certainly know that 99.9% of our listeners will be going, I listen to Lead on Purpose one because I love new insights and connect with great leaders. But the other side of it is I want to be on purpose more often in my life, in my relationships with the people that I love, with the people that I serve, with my clients, with everybody around me. And so to me, this experience that you had really helped you uncover your deep purpose. And to me, what you were doing there is no different than what the listener is doing today. Obviously, it's different experience, but you were on a journey to discover your purpose, as is the listener right now. How do we hone our purpose and refine it? A very similar experience happened for a friend He's a film producer in la and he went and did ayahuasca in South America and it really changed the direction of his life massively. Now, can we talk about what did change? So when you came out of the ceremony, what were you called to do? What direction did you get taken on?

Yeah, and I love, James, how you've likened this experience, because actually, I feel like every day life is kind of one big ceremony now. And. And you know, and we're all searching and seeking for that sense of purpose. And if we really, really break it down, we're also all seeking and yearning for the same things. And like, we all want to experience more love and connection and we all want to experience more happiness and joy, you know, and if we break everything down and we distill it, those are the things that remain, you know, and. And so that experience with the plant medicine, ayahuasca, you know, I can only describe it as an awakening. And I went in with no expectations. And although I'd be meditating for a number of years, and I was definitely interested in Eastern philosophy and I was interested in indigenous cultures and I was interested in really, in anything that.

Carried answers to what this experience of life is all about, that was where my fascination was beginning to move towards. And I think that was also driven by the fact that a number of my close family members suffered with mental health challenges and so depression and anxiety and apprehension. And. And so there was kind of like this.

View within me which was to try and understand.

How we can feel happy, connected, fulfilled, joyful and full of purpose and meaning and equally not be.

Consumed by these illnesses and experiences that I'd seen so close to me with my family members. So.

So the going into that ceremony, I didn't have any expectations, but I knew that it was going to be powerful because I'd read about it. I hadn't read too much about it, which I think was also to my benefit. But the experience itself was. To try and put into words is. Is so difficult because it was in some ways otherworldly. You know, it involves a psychoactive compound. And. And equally it woke me up to a realization that we are definitely not just this one individual going through life and that you're another individual going through life and we're completely separate and there's no sense of interconnectedness. Actually the opposite. Like what I experienced in Ayahuasca was that we are absolutely interconnected and we have this inter beingness with everything. And. And it kind of took me on a journey that felt like 15 years of therapy in, in six hours. And it was one of the most beautiful experiences I had in terms of the love that I felt during that experience I never experienced before. And, and that was a visceral experience. It was the most real love that I could ever feel. And, and then equally, it also took me into the depths of my own mind and the shadows and, and I faced a number of fears. And so I came out of that experience like, wow, what was that just happened to me? And, and, and it could have been overwhelming, but thankfully, you know, I connected with a number of individuals afterwards that helped me process and integrate the experience. And I never knew where I was going after that. I knew that I wasn't meant to be doing what I was doing. I never knew fully where I was going, but I didn't know that I was being called to something that felt really important and that even if I tried to forget it, I wouldn't be able to. It's like they say, you can't unsee what you've seen. Yeah. And, you know, and after that experience, I'd seen and experienced something that was so profound and that was calling me towards a higher purpose. And that became, that became everything I, I thought, okay, I need to 1. I've got a lot of healing that I need to go through. I've got a lot of processing and integration and I want to learn more about this stuff. I want to learn more about, you know, the, the human spirit. I want to learn more about what it is that interconnects us all. I want to learn more about, you know, what happens to us when we, when we die. I want to learn more about, like, what are these shadows and these fears that were presented to me and such an obvious, and, and in some cases terrifying way like that was in me. What was that? And so I became a guinea pig essentially for this experience. And, and I committed myself to saying, well, I'm on a path now and I think, you know, you. I could have made the decision at that point to turn back and go back to my nice life in my very high paid job. And, and.

But it wasn't what I was to do. And I was being called towards something much bigger than myself. And that's the only way that I could describe it.

It's a great way to describe it. Makes it, you know, in my mind, that ethereal experience that you went through, it just makes it really clear how that has influenced your decisions. And you know, I, my first reaction when I first started looking at ayahuasca and studying it. And my first reaction was like, whoa. Like, what if it sends me off on a track where I just, like, I become dysfunctional and I can't pay bills and I can't be a good dad and. But the more I connect with people who've been through it and have, as you say, really integrated their experience through different mentors and advisors, that it's actually really elevated their life. It's elevated the impact they have on others as well. And, you know, that whole idea of the shadow, I want to just explore that for a second, because we had Dr. Don Green on the show about six months ago, and he has spent his life studying Juilliard, School of Music, the finest musicians in the planet, figure skaters that are going to the world championships, Olympic divers, chess players. He studies them. And what he waits for, he waits for the moment where they fail. And they generally fail in the last two seconds of the final moment of the world championship. Let's say that's what it is. And they go, I just don't know what happened. I've done that thing, that thing I was supposed to do. I've done it a hundred times, and at the last moment, I screwed it up. And so he made it his life mission to go, why do people do that? What. What is that? And he has got this incredible body of work called train your own hero. And he said, this shadow sits within us, and that shadow wants to be seen. That shadow wants to be appreciated, valued, heard, honored, and it needs to be brought to the surface. And he says, what we do as humans, we fear the shadow. And so we push, push, push, push, push it down through avoidance, busyness, promiscuity, alcohol, drugs, whatever we might do to avoid this shadow. And so his whole idea is like, let's figure out what our shadow is. Let's dance with it. Let's uncover it. And that's not. Let it stop us. So I would love just to ask, you know, what. What do you. When you talk about shadow, what do you mean by that? And what have you done with it since you discovered it?

Yeah, amazing. And I love the body of work that you've just mentioned, and I'm gonna for sure check in and listen to the podcast that you did together.

So, you know, shadow work in the term, from my experience, you know, the term was coined by Carl Jung, you know, the psychologist, and my experience of it is that we all have a shadow self, or we all have, you know, parts of us that the best way I would describe it, that we've either rejected or denied or disowned or we pushed away or resisted or suppressed or repressed. And this shadow or these shadows have often been developed and created at a young age, you know, based on our experiences of life, based on our environments that we've occupied, based on the conditioning that we've been exposed to. And so we develop, you know, these shadows based on.

You know, fears and in some cases, you know, our. Our need to be loved and connected. We've developed behaviors and beliefs that we have to be a certain way or do a certain thing. And equally, these parts of ourselves, if they are seen or heard, that we would potentially face things like rejection or abandonment. And in some cases when we're younger, what that equates to is an existential fear. If I reveal this part of me or express this part of me or behave in this way or say this thing, then there's a real threat of my existence. Because rejection of a parent or abandonment or. Or a sense of not experiencing that love and connection that we need at very young age threatens our existence. And so throughout our life, and especially in our formative years, we develop a lot of these shadows that are stored away and pushed down into the unconscious and subconscious parts of our mind. And they will.

Pretty much prevent us from experiencing and realizing our true nature and also expressing ourselves in a way that allows us to reach our optimum, you know, performance levels, our potential. And from the work that, you know, I'm now involved with, James, prevent us from. From experiencing an unconditional love for ourselves. And not only that, but ultimately then an unconditional love for everything and everyone. And so these shadows are parts that have been pushed away. And if you think about it, as soon as we are disowning or rejecting or denying a part of ourselves, then there's no way for us to be whole, you know, because what we're saying is, I like this part, but I don't like that part. And so essentially, we're creating an idea of duality, an idea of separation within ourselves. When you begin to work with the shadow, you welcome it in consciously. You be with it. You begin listening to it, speaking to it, seeing it. Then something quite incredible happens. You begin to integrate all of these parts that have been denied or rejected or disowned or even deemed as unlovable.

And you begin to feel a sense of wholeness. And, you know, that's been the. A big part of my own journey. And also, you know, the journey that I work with others on is. Is recognizing that all of These parts.

Not only need to be seen and deserve to be seen, but also need to be loved and experienced and accepted. And when we can do that, the experience of self love and unconditional love for oneself is, you know, it has an incredible impact on everything.

Because when we love ourselves and we realize that actually we are whole and we are perfect as we are.

Then we begin letting go of the need to prove ourselves, the need to strive, the need to. To seek that attention and that love from the external world. And although in some cases people think, well, that would mean I would lose my edge, or that would mean that I would, you know, lose the very thing that's got me to this point, I've found the opposite to be true. I find that when you're fueled by this love, rather than a fear of not being good enough, of needing to prove myself, when you're fueled by a love that never runs out, that fuel and actually you tap into an inspiration and a motivation and a creativity that is endless and infinite in its nature. So, yeah, this is the power of integrating those shadows and really spending time with them and allowing them to be seen and heard is that it leads us to the realization of a beautiful inner world that. That is filled with love and peace and compassion and empathy and acceptance and all of these things.

I really love that. And a really good example of that. And listeners who've been listening to the last few weeks will remember this incredible guest we had, Campbell Johnston on the show. And his dream as a little boy was to become an All Black. And for the listeners who are not from New Zealand, that's the New Zealand national rugby team. They're world champions. And every little New Zealand boy wants to be an All Black. And that was his dream. And he said after. And he became an All Black. And it didn't last maybe as long as he'd wanted. And eventually he was asked to stand down from the team, but he came out about three months ago as the first openly gay All Black and long after his career ended. And it was incredible talking to him about that shadow that literally lurked with him the whole way. And he said, look, I did not want the world to know that I was gay. And he says, I knew I was gay from, you know, I'm 13, 14. And he said, I'm in these big macho alpha male rugby teams and, you know, now all of a sudden, like on the world stage and he's. I didn't want people to know that because I figured people wouldn't like that. And people Would, like, literally rip all my opportunities away from me. I would never be able to fulfill my dreams if people knew the truth. And he's saying, now that's so far from reality. And he wants to set the tone for other people who want to address whatever part of their life is holding them back or they're hiding and say, hey, be you and you can still thrive. And what you just said really reiterates his story from. From a few weeks ago. So thank you.

Yeah, that's beautiful. And. And I love that the messages be you and. And. And you will realize even beyond what you could imagine is available to you. And, you know, and that's. That's been part of my own journey. James, is the message that I talk about now, which is all about love and awakening to what I would describe as our true nature. There was some hesitancy in me about that before, because how would it be received? And I've been known as an executive coach that works with people on performance and everything else, but actually, this is the most authentic expression of who I am.

And so I love that we often fear showing this part of ourselves that. That we think won't be accepted by society, by our communities, by our family members, by those closest to us. And so. And so we kind of dim our light. And yet when we begin expressing our innate qualities and our innate talents, and.

The world responds in a beautiful way. And there's an amazing quote by Joseph Campbell that he says, the cave that you fear to enter holds the treasure that you seek. And I think that's a beautiful description of this shadow that we're talking about. Is that often those deepest, darkest fears that we hold.

One, when we get intimate with them and we get close to them, we realize that they're not anywhere near as frightening and as scary as we built them up to be. But also they contain a wisdom and a power and a truth that. That when we realize it, wow. We can expand in ways that. That changes who we are, but also has a significant impact on the world around us. And if you think about your guest, was it Campbell that you. You said. Yeah, Campbell, you think about the power of his message. Now to young boys and young men who may be going through a similar experience who see him and everything that he achieved, and then also the courage that he's been able to show to express who he is. I mean, it's a powerful message. And so the ripple effect from that, who knows the impact that that has on however many people? But it's. But it's beautiful. And I think that's the power of the shadow is that we often feed it. We don't look at it, we push it away, we resist it. The only thing I've found is that by looking into it, by becoming intimate with it, is you begin to realize more of your wholeness. And, and, and, and if we ask what is our purpose in life, I believe it's to realize that, realize our true nature and then to express it into the world and every interaction and every environment that we, you know, we find ourselves in.

That's beautiful. That's seriously beautiful. And it's interesting that you mentioned about like I was an executive coach and I'm in a similar field and often we get these ideas from leaders that to lead you can't be too soft, you've got to be hard and you've got to be ruthless. And it's really interesting because I think that model has been, there's some old school leadership around. You know, you've got to bark the orders, you've got to make sure you don't get too close to your people. And you know, because if you get too close, it's going to be hard to make those tough calls. But in fact, I've seen the best leaders that have the highest performing teams and individuals within those teams are leaders that are very highly aware, are more often than not softly spoken, are very empathetic, and they lead with love. And I truly think that that's the next.

Stage of leadership is leading with love. So I'd like to ask you, how do you think leaders should go about leading with love?

It's a great question and I love that you've described that as almost like the next evolution of leadership because I've noticed the same things, James, with the clients that I've worked with is that.

Obviously some clients have been on this journey with me over the last, you know, however, however many years they've seen these various different expansions of, of who I am and the work that I do, and they've become naturally curious and interestingly like you. What I've observed is that those who have opened themselves up to experience and vulnerability within themselves, to looking at their own shadows and fears and limitations.

Tend to become more empathetic and compassionate and loving by a byproduct of that inner work that they do. And the response to that and the people that I've worked with directly is that they haven't. Teams that are engaged, teams that feel part of a mission, part, you know, a sense of belonging, they create a Psychologically safe environment where people can express and talk and share, but also a high performing environment. And I think what previously happened was that we never believed those things could coexist. You know, we had an idea that high performance.

Could only be experienced through.

You know, an edge that is driven a lot of the time by fear. You know, and we never thought that success, high performance could coexist with what some may suggest are softer skills. But really I think it's connecting into something that we all relate to. And like I said at the beginning of the conversation, you know, we all want to experience more love and we all want to experience greater sense of happiness and fulfillment. And so when you can meet all those things and still perform at a high level, then you've got a winning combination. And so, you know, for me, leading from a place of love doesn't mean that we don't have ambitions or targets or goals or what it means is that we have all of those things and we move towards them with a sense of wholeness and unity and passion and inspiration and motivation. That means that we enjoy the journey as well. And even the way that we respond to setbacks or obstacles or challenges is very different. We begin to look at them as opportunities to grow. We begin to look at them as opportunities to access more of our innate potential in the same way that shadows and fears are opportunities for us to access more of our true nature, more of these innate qualities. And so leading from a place of love for me is, is using our everyday experiences with our teams and our organizations and ourselves.

To realize a sense of meaning and fulfillment in our everyday lives. And if we have that, then what I've learned is that the performance.

Is often a byproduct of that.

I don't know if that makes sense, James.

I 100 resonate with that. And as you share that, when I hear what you describe leading with love means, I get such a strong connection with what I believe leading on purpose means. So how you just described leading with love, that's. You could easily, I would easily describe leading on purpose the same way. And you know, I think when there is self love and there's, there's love of the, the greater whole, that we lead better and we get better outcomes. But all too often there's a metric focus and often you, you, you might, might be similar. But you know, I've had some incredible people come to me for one to one as a one to one client and I'll say, look, the big focus is this year we want to hit that big Target. That's why I want to come to you. And, you know, this is what we need. And like, three sessions in, we're talking about the way they're avoiding difficult conversations with loved ones, the way they've got disconnection with the people that matter most in their life. And we actually spend most of our sessions focused on self love and building better connections, relationships and wellbeing. And in the end, they hit their metrics. But it's been through working on all these important things, not just monomaniacally focusing on the digits in the numbers. Have you found something similar when you've been working with clients?

Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think you've. You've touched on.

The most important thing is that we are holistic. You know, as human beings. We have all these different aspects of our experience. Whether that's personal relationships, whether it's friendships.

Work performance, career, finances, like there's all these various different elements. And recognizing that, you know, there used to be an idea that you've got to keep personal life separate from work life. And the truth is that's still, I suppose, an idea that is.

Suggested in many work environments.

But it's kind of impossible, you know, because even if we are in the workplace and we're fully focused, if something's not quite right at home or within ourselves, then as soon as we leave that workplace, we're back to thinking about that thing, or we're back to thinking about that relationship, or we're back to. And so for us to deny looking at those things, especially in the context of, say, professional coaching, but also, I think in the workplace, when we deny guiding our team members or the people that we work with through those difficult experiences and allowing them to be seen and heard, then essentially we are preventing. There's almost like a film or a layer that's placed over that individual's vibrancy or their light. And it might not be noticeable in every day, but over time, it begins to corrode at that individual. You know, it's like a corrosion. And so, you know, this is how I think we see so many people going through burnout in the corporate environment. You know, there's so much pressure. They. They go, they go, they go, they go for so long. And then this corrosion is just happening underneath the surface. And then stress begins to form, and then a sense of anxiety and apprehension. And then, of course, mental health challenges become even greater. And so like this, you know, if we ignore or deny these other aspects of the human, then at some point that human is, is going to find themselves entangled in their mind. You know, they're going to find themselves entangled in the content of all of their experience and they're going to lose some of that light that is that innate nature within them. And so, you know, leading from a place of love and going back to the idea that you said where you would have a client who comes and they want to have a focus on one area or one outcome or one goal, but then over the course of the partnership you begin looking at all these other aspects. Well, that's leading from a place of love as well, is that when we can help an individual to feel whole.

Within each part of themselves and in life and that individual is going to perform and express and, and show up with a different energy and a different vitality. And, and I think that for me is, is leading from a place of love. It's, it's being able to recognize that what is in me and the desires that I hold are also in you. And that together we can work with one another to realize, you know, that incredible.

Reservoir of creativity, of imagination, of potential, of purpose that's within us. And I'm going to help you to do that by understanding who you are, what's going on for you.

What do we need to do or how can I support you to realize more of this potential within you?

And look al you, you've been instrumental in helping me. So you know the group that you and I joined, 12 month mastermind, essentially with some incredible global high performers. I joined that to grow my business, to grow my revenue. That's, that's why I joined it. That was like, that was it. And you and I connected about two or three months into that and I was like, there's just something about this Alistair guy. I need to get to know him. I don't know what it is, but like he's a cool guy. And when we started to get to know each other, I was like, oh, when we chat, we, we all were very ambitious, both of us, and we're wanting to grow our impact and, and grow our businesses and nurture our beautiful families. But actually, you know, when we're chatting with Alistair, it's about self love. It's about becoming aware of how I'm feeling and thought, oh, this feeling stuff, this is interesting. Like what the way I feel directly impacts how I show up for my loved ones, for my clients, for my business. And I want to, just for the listener that's listening right now, I want to just ask them for a moment.

Do you truly Love yourself. I want you to think of that for a second listener. And look, I get the great privilege, as does Alistair, to meet lots of great people doing incredible things and they work hard for themselves and their families and when they turn up, they've got this brave face and some people might call it the mask, and they put that mask on and they're confident and they're doing their thing. But often I get the privilege and Alistair does this way more than I do, to step behind the scenes with that individual, peel back the layers and actually look within to say, is it love or is it loathing? And certainly, Alistair, you've helped me to find areas where there was a lot of loathing and that I can look back at parts of my life and go, how I led people there or how I treated myself there, or the things that I did during those times in my life that was a direct reflection of the lack of self love that I had. And so there'd be a period in my life where I thought, working on self love, how's that going to help my business? Working on self love, how's that going to impact anything and anybody? That's just going to be a waste of my time. I'm too busy. Let's get back to doing busy stuff. Right? But that.

Act of engaging and awareness of self love has been the biggest transformation in my life. It has. You know, that saying probably not going to do it justice, but a rising tide lifts all boats.

Yeah.

My God, learning to love myself was the rising tide. And my business, my relationships, my health, even my thinking, all of it has improved. Now, it's not perfect and it never will be, but understanding how love shows up and how I need to love myself has been the greatest impact. And I put that down to the work that you and I have done.

Even just. It's interesting how some of the stuff you put on Instagram, your Instagram blows my mind. Like some of the stuff you put on there just hits me exactly when I need it. I'm like, wow, this is so powerful. And I see it going off. You know, there's hundreds of thousands of views and some of your incredible thought leadership on there. And for the listener that's listening, I'm going to put that right in the show notes. You got to go and follow Al on Instagram. It's. It's incredible. But I just, I don't want to be the only person that benefits from that work. I want everyone that's seeking more love, seeking more self love, because you can't Love others till you love yourself. I totally, totally believe that. And I've been through some of your incredible meditations. You know, you run awakening love every two weeks, isn't it?

Yeah, every couple of weeks. Exactly.

Oh, it's so good. I mean, I love jumping in on those sessions and I just want to talk a wee bit about where people can actually connect with your amazing work. So I think that's probably, if you want to just chat a wee bit about awakening the love is probably a great place for people to start.

Yeah. And I love James, what you, you know, you asked the audience, you know, ask yourself, do I love myself? And.

This deeper exploration of the self is kind of now the body of work, as you know, that I'm doing. And. And although self love is one part of it, what I found is as I began going on that deeper journey inwards, and as you know, I sat in ayahuasca ceremony that I mentioned earlier, but thereafter I sat in a number of other experiences. And what I realized is that when we begin to. To acknowledge and connect to that what I would describe as our essential nature, it could be called awareness, it could be called consciousness, it could be called love. We realize that our essential nature, or my essential nature, is the same as your essential nature, you know, and when you realize that we, and I'm using you and I as an example here, both have the same essential nature and that we emanate from the same source of energy, which I would describe as love. Some people may describe it as consciousness or innate intelligence or God or, you know, the universe. But when you realize that, that actually we share.

Our essential nature, that we are one and the same.

Then the way that you interact with the world changes significantly. Because if you're at one with something, then you don't want to harm it. If you're at one with something and you share that beingness with another person or another thing, then you only want the best for it. And so naturally, what springs from that, well, is compassion, connection, but also the cool stuff as well, like joy and liberation and freedom and love and all these cool things. So, you know, the work that I'm doing now, and you mentioned my Instagram, which is incredible. You know, every day there's. I don't know how many people watching the videos, but. But more importantly, the comments and the engagement of people feeling this sense of connection to themselves or belonging, you know, people going through extremely difficult periods in their life responding to these videos, saying something you said resonated with me on a deep level because What I'm sharing is I'm sharing a truth that is in us all. And all it takes sometimes is to see that in another person or in another thing. And it reminds us of our nature. And so, you know, the work that I'm feeling inspired to deliver now is, is. Is very much related to us realizing our true nature.

Which is love. And then subsequently, through that realization.

Realizing that we are all connected in that field of energy that is love. And so we're not separate. And this can seem a little bit out there, but what that gives is, that gives an energy for life that is entirely different.

Because you begin to say, wow, okay, James is the same on the inside.

And I'm the same. And the person, the stranger in the street is the same. Even though it may be buried or hidden or veiled. Because of our conditioning, our past experience and everything else.

There'S a seat of love within everyone. You know, in Buddhism, they call it the seed of enlightenment. And everyone, and we are, we've all got this opportunity to awaken to that, to awaken to this experience within us that will lead us to experience in the most beautiful life whilst we're here on this planet. And so that's the body of work that, as you know, I'm now being altered in a way that even if I wanted to resist it or, you know, not follow this path is impossible for me now because, you know, this is something that, that I feel I'm being guided towards from a higher intelligence and, and from this source of energy that I'm pointing towards. And so my awakening love sessions that you mentioned are a way to give people an entry point into this work. And so they take place every couple of weeks. We come together, we meditate, and then we explore a theme or a topic. And those themes and topics are often related to what I teach on the I Am Love course that I run, which is kind of eight steps to self realization and to experience in this love. And these eight steps are.

Ways that we can work with our mind and the layers of conditioning and to remove and peel back those layers to reveal our true nature. And they're things like acceptance and forgiveness, gratitude and appreciation, surrendering and letting go. These are all ways to peel back these layers and, and they've been developed through my own experiences of sitting in ceremonies and also working with healers and coaches and mentors. And.

You know, I know that this, this work, I really believe that for us to create a more beautiful world for our daughters and our sons and also for all future generations that this is the only answer, and the only cure is for us to collectively awaken to the truth of our nature, which is love, and to come together and unite in that shared sense of beingness.

Absolutely agree. And I've never met anyone that could actually convey it like that before. And it's, it's interesting when I think of. There was an experience happened a few weeks ago and it really kind of startled me. So when you were talking about, you know, we're all one and in the inside I'm the same and you're the same. And.

The first thing that comes up for me is, but what about the really bad people in the world? And I'm sure one of the listeners that's listening right now has probably said the same thing. How could you know, how can we be the same as a really, really bad person? Something really startling happened a few weeks ago and there was a quite a in depth, intimate documentary on Osama bin Laden. And we all know him for all of the horrific, horrific things he did. But there was some very private video footage of him with one of his kids. And Alistair. I've never seen this love. I just never would have expected it. And there was joy, there was playfulness. You could see that this dad, who in this case was Osama bin Laden, just wanted the best for this young boy and was encouraging him to read and celebrating him when he got words right and playing with him and truly creating memories. And to me, that in that moment it shocked me because in my mind I was like, no, he's just a really bad person and every ounce of his body is bad. And for a moment I just realized, actually you mentioned the word seed. There was a seed of love and goodness in even the worst person we could imagine. It's there. But I guess seeds take watering and seeds take culture and environment and love. And yeah, that, that was just. I wanted. I felt compelled to share that, that I think that no matter who we are, we have that seed of love in us.

Yeah. And it's a beautiful example, James. If, if we continue to hate or we continue to.

Try and resolve our problems as a species with.

More anger and more conflict, we're going to find ourselves in a perpetual cycle of more of the same.

And.

And, and all it leads to is this idea that there's us and then that there's object and subject.

And in that space we're going to find ourselves trapped, like I said, in this perpetual cycle of fighting, of conflict, of anger, of resistance.

And the only way that I can see that Ever ending is if over time, and I don't think it will happen in our lifetime. I think this is an evolution of consciousness. But over time that we begin awakening that seed and more people. And then as parents, we break the generational patterns that have been handed down to us. The traumas, the wounds, the shadows. And in turn, we begin raising our children from a place of love and wholeness.

Then I really do believe and hope that over time, through possibly many lifetime cycles, we begin to see that love emerges. Because.

Love is the most powerful force in the universe. It is the energy that everything emanates from. And, you know, I loved how you said, but people might be thinking, so how can that person, you know, that evil person or this, you know, individual that. That that has caused so much pain and suffering and others, whether, you know, that's Osama bin Laden or anyone else that comes to mind for the listeners is because in those.

Experiences, the individual has become so identified with the ego, with the idea of being a separate cell, so identified with the need for power and greed, so identified with the fears and the conditioning and the experiences and the traumas and the wounds that they've been exposed to, that they see themselves as a separate being. They don't realize that there's a shared sense of beingness, a deeper truth within them because we've become so identified with the ego. And so they operate from that idea of being a separate cell.

As soon as we realize that the separate self, the ego, is not who we are, but that there is a deeper truth within us. And that deeper truth brings to us the realization that we are all one and the same, that we all share this sense of connection, then we begin moving towards a very different experience on our planet. And that's really the bigger purpose behind the work that I'm doing is do I believe that this innate nature, this energy of love wishes to be expressed and realized in every living being, Absolutely. Yeah. I believe that's why I'm being called to do this work. 100. And you know, in that moment where you witnessed Osama bin Laden with a child, what I'm recognizing is that possibly just for those moments, his idea of being a separate self faded away and he was in love with his child. And when the idea of the separate self falls away, that's what happens. Love emerges. You know, we have that in an experience when, you know, we could be on a dance floor with our friends when, when we're growing up or at a festival and we're nowhere else. We're not thinking about the future. We're not thinking about our status or our business. We're in the moment and we're so present and we feel at one. You know, those moments where you look at a friend and they're thinking the same thing. You've not even said anything or you. We're in love, you know, and that's what happens when our personal thinking mind falls away, when our ego dissipates.

We drop into a shared space of beingness. And in that shared space of beingness, there's no desire to hurt.

Anyone or anything because why would we hurt something that we're part of?

100.

So, yeah, this is what's inspiring, the work that I'm doing now.

James, your work is incredibly inspiring. And literally, I'll be honest, we have just touched like the tip of the iceberg here. So we need like another 10 episodes. You're going to be on this show again. So a couple of things. I know I want to be mindful of your time. A couple of things. So one, I know I've got the inside scoop that there's a book in the mix that's going to be in the hands of millions of readers over the next few years. So could you just give us a little. A little bit sneak peek of what the book's going to. Going to be about?

Yeah, so. And I'll try and keep this short for time. So the book is inspired by. I sat in another ceremony last year called a Buffalo ceremony, and it's another ceremony that involves a psychoactive compound. Someone told me that it's actually seven times stronger than ayahuasca. It's a compound called 5ME ODMT. And I also want to share that anyone listening to this, I'm not suggesting that anyone goes and does these medicine ceremonies. You know, this is very much a personal choice. I'd done my research and equally I'd also prepared extensively for the ceremony last year with all of the deep work that I've been doing. But it was in that experience, James, where, as you know, I had a realization of oneness. And the only way I can describe it is that it was a complete disillusion of my ego, of my personal thinking mind, but also my identity as Alistair Gray. And I realized this truth, which is we are all love. And. And that we are all connected. And. And so that inspired a program that I've created into a course. And it's like I said, these eight steps to realizing the truth of our nature and to opening up our heart. So I'm in the process of writing that at the moment. And, you know, that's essentially going to be a guide that enables people to consciously go through these steps which will help them heal, which will help them bring awareness to shadows, potentially some traumas and wounds that we've been carrying through life, through the very process of that experiencing a liberation and a freedom that allows us to live a more beautiful existence. So, yeah, that, that's in. In the process. And like I said, it is going to be a book in it. And it's also a course as well that I guide people through.

That's incredible. And I'll be getting copies of that for my clients and I'll get a few extra copies that I will give away as prizes here on the show when it comes to light and comes to the world. So best of luck with writing it. That's going to be quite an incredible journey in birthing it and bringing it to light. And the course, I'm happy to say I'm going to be signed up as one of your very first people to go through the course. And I cannot wait. Caroline will join me on that as well.

Amazing. Well, listen, I appreciate, you know, first of all, you support in the journey and also, you know, I think, James, just your openness to explore some of these topics with me over the last few years, but also then to share it with your listeners because I understand that, you know, some of the concepts can be foreign and also can provoke resistance in some people. You know, I certainly know that was the case for me when I began this journey. So I just wanted to honor you and thank you, James, for, you know, opening up this space and for being courageous in your own exploration to find, you know, different ways of leading on purpose. So thank you so much for having me.

Thank you. Al. I'm going to sneak one last question in. I can't. I can't let you go without this one. We're gonna fast forward to the very last day of your life here on Earth. And you know, it's your last day, you've been told and someone very special to you, a very young person, it could be a grandchild, maybe even a great grandchild. And they come up to you and they say, oh.

How can I lead my life on purpose? What would you have to say to them?

I would. I would give them the simple guidance to be love.

And. And that would be a beloved.

I love it. Well, with that, I want to encourage the listener right now to be love, to love oneself, and to have the most incredible day because I know that what we have shared and talked about has impacted me. I can feel it. And I have no doubt that the listener will be feeling the same way. So, Al, thank you so much for creating this space.

Thank you so much, my friend. What a pleasure it is to spend time with James.

Thank you so much, Matt. We'll see you soon.

Thank you. Bye. Bye.

Thanks for tuning in today and investing in your own personal leadership. Please hit that subscribe button and I'd love if you'd leave me a rating and review. I've got some amazing guests lined up for you in the coming weeks. And leaders, it's that time to get out there and lead your life on purpose.