How to Scale Your Business Fast with Blair Chappell

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Foreign.

I am incredibly excited to welcome in today's special guest, Blair Chappell. Blair is joining us from Christchurch, New Zealand where he is the co owner.

And founder of the Williams Corporation.

In today's session we talk about how Blair builds wealth, how the company was built and how he's taken it forward, and ways in which you can implement this thinking and these strategies in your life and in your business. I hope you enjoy the show.

Hey Blair, I just want to say a massive welcome to the Life on Purpose podcast.

Thanks John. It's good to be here.

Yeah, good to see you again. Last time was in person, this time is digital and as most people around the world right now know, Covid is forcing most of us to do this. So really great that you made time. I know you're a very busy and focused individual. You're doing some really cool things with the Williams Corporation. So love to know before we get into some of that stuff, what led you to this point? Because I look at you and I go, wow, he really lives a life on purpose. He's doing things purposefully. He knows where he's heading, he knows who he is. What led you to this point, whether it was your parenting or schooling?

It's a really good question actually. I suppose it's one of those things where I was fortunate to start a business quite young. So Matthew, my business partner and I could sort of try out a lot of different things before finding the right thing that we ended up being good at. And I think that was one of our really key things to success has been able to start young at a really small scale and learn what doesn't work before. Also having commitments and family and heaps of staff. You Got to look after, just sort of really just being able to do it, do what you want, when you want, try lots of different things with sort of only yourself to be responsible for.

That's amazing. And when you talk about that, and I think of some of the greatest, like say, Jeff Bezos, another person, Bill Gates, they've tried lots of things. Steve Jobs, they keep trying until they hit the bullseye. So for someone that's listening, they're going, yeah, I'm young, yeah, I'd like to live that life. I want to create that lifestyle. Where do they start? When they come up with an idea or they have 100 ideas, how do they just take the first step?

Really good question. I suppose, like, one of the most powerful things we did was try lots of things, but then also one of the biggest handicaps was trying lots of things. So I think it's sort of. It's really easy to get caught up in the notion of millionaires have 10 sources of income or 12 sources of income. And when we started out, we sort of had a business doing temporary fencing. We were about 18, 19. It was going reasonably well. And we thought the best way to get there is to have 10 businesses doing reasonably well as opposed to just one. And then the sort of. The best lesson I learned from that is just if you want to be the best at something, you're always going to have competition in your space. And if you think that you can do something really well part time versus your competition, who's got nothing else on their table, or just doing one thing full time, they're always going to beat you. So I suppose one lesson is you need to try lots of things to figure out what works and what you're good at. But then you have to accept the reality of probably narrowing down into one or two key things. And as far as getting started, it depends on the person. I think if someone knows an industry or a field that they know they're passionate about, they know they want to get involved in, I think the best thing to do is actually go work for essentially the company you idolize to, I wouldn't say follow or copy, but someone in your space where you're like, this is the company that's motivated me to get involved in, say, construction, because then essentially you're getting paid to learn, you're getting surrounded by the best people in that industry, you're getting paid for it. And then that will sort of teach you a lot of lessons that otherwise might have taken you significantly longer to learn. If you just started from Day dot with no experience, trying to just sort of punch your way through it. Yeah, so definitely, I suppose just if you know what you want to do, then just go find someone in that field and kind of get as involved with them as possible. And if you don't know what you want to do, I suppose that's probably the hardest thing people face.

It's just a time thing really. It's just writing things down, trying things, talking to people, trying to, I wouldn't say work experience but just immerse yourself in different topics until you sort of go, I think that's the, that's the one I want to be in.

I love that. And it's like when you say that I'm thinking of success leaves clues. So when you start to model someone who's doing what you want to do, you're learning from the clues that they're leaving.

Yeah, definitely.

That's so cool. So you had all these things, potential opportunities going on. Now you're with Williams Corporation, you guys are driving an amazing product. Product and business. So what was the catalyst to go, okay, we've got 10 options. No, no, no, we're going to go into this funnel and this bucket here and we're going to work on this and we're going to make it world class.

Yeah, I suppose for a while like we had, we started temporary fencing and just like labor only build contractors and then we sort of spread ourselves a bit thin. We got trucks and diggers and drain layers and we had like a waste management company, an IT company, just everything you could imagine would pretty much try that. And then sort of in Christchurch after the earthquake rebuild market, the market went from being really hot, lots of work on just sort of tightening up a little bit as sort of that rebuild sort of plateaued and finished off. And we sort of went from having these say 10 businesses all making a little bit of money to 10 businesses sort of all treading water or losing a bit of money. So it was sort of time to do some soul searching and going, well, one, what do we like doing? And then two, what's actually making us money? And then it sort of came back to we like building homes and make money doing it. It was enjoyable. That required the least amount of staff and then essentially that money was being used to prop up all the businesses which on their own face probably wouldn't survive. So that was sort of quite a clear strategic moment of going, well, we know the writing's on the wall, we need to keep doing what we like doing and what's making us the money and get better at that and then let's wind up rest of it and just focus on the one key thing moving forward, which was property development and is now Williams Corporation. And it was probably after that time, maybe three years of actually figuring out what our product is, what are our strengths, what are our weaknesses, how do we refine it, how do we actually get a scalable business model. And sort of as soon as we sort of managed to evolve from doing like renovations and single house spec homes into that multi unit space that was sort of the light bulb moment of yeah, this is the formula. We know it works, we know how to do it. Now let's scale this as much as we can.

That's brilliant. I love that. And so for people who have a business or they're thinking about it and they're maybe part timing it, they want to move to full time. What are the key things they need to be considering when they're running a business? If they're a solopreneur and they want to build a billion dollar empire, it's going to be difficult. So what are the key things that you think about when you think of business in terms of team finance, marketing, all those, what are those buckets that you have in your mind as a person who's running a large company?

I suppose one of the main things that made Williams Corporation grow as much as it did was sort of we always were very sales focused. So I sort of go if a business is a sphere going out into the marketplace, you want to have sales at the tip of the spear because you see a lot of people, they sort of go, well if I go from part time to full time, I'll do more business, make more money, et cetera, have a bigger team and company. But generally that should follow from I have too many sales, I don't have enough time, I physically have to leave my job to be able to deliver the results to my clients. As opposed to going I'm going to leave my job and then try getting the sales to come. I think it's kind of important to get the sales there first before getting too far into it. And also it depends on person's own responsibilities. Do they have a mortgage to pay, do they have a husband or wife, do they have children? And going or is it just me, myself and I and I can always go move into my friend's couch if something doesn't quite go as planned. So yeah, it's sort of risk appetite and imbalance by is this a good vessel to go into full time or is it actually a part time business that's small and it probably isn't the right long term thing for me 100%.

And if we think about the individual who's trying to amass wealth, they're trying to get to that critical lump sum, that magic number, their safe number, or how do they do that? If you think about your approach and you're working towards, or maybe you're already at getting to financial wealth and freedom or abundance, how does someone go about figuring out the number they need that they can live off and then determining a vehicle to help them get there?

I suppose one thing that someone told me once, which is really true, is you don't know how poor you are until you have a little bit of money. So whatever you think you need, as bad as it sounds when you get there, it will probably be significantly, probably not as satisfied as what you want it to be. And you'll also realize you probably need a lot more. And I know it sounds cliche, but I think also making money is more or less the byproduct of doing a good job. I think it's too easy to try to put money at the forefront of what you do, or what a lot of people do, where really you should just go, what is my product or service? What does it cost me? What do I make from it? What's my market demand? If I extrapolate that data out on the back of a napkin, is it going to make enough money to satisfy me or hit my sort of magic number? I think if we did that, if Matthew and I did that early on, there'd be a lot of business you'd never bother starting because you could literally on the back of a neck and go, what does this look like? If I make it as big as possible? And a lot of businesses would go, oh shit, that's a lot of work, a lot of rust, a lot of capital to make $200,000 a year. Whereas in another business you can make 10 times the money with significantly less risk or capital, or start manufacturing facilities, et cetera.

And if people are out there thinking, we don't want to run a business, we don't have it in us to do that. But we want to invest, whether it's stock, shares, real estate. If they wanted to go down the real estate route, because that's what you guys do and that's what you're really well known for. What would be a good starting point? If someone was in their 20s or 30s and they're like, you Know what? I want to start building wealth down that route. Where do they start?

I suppose it depends if people want to be an active investor or more of a passive investor. I think there's nothing wrong with people being extremely good at their career, having a salary job and then investing that money into more of a hands off property investment transaction. But then I think the people out there that want to sort of try become developers or be sort of residential.

Renovators, that's more around just get a really small project and just learn the process. It's don't try conquer the world on your first deal. When people sort of say to me I want to be a developer, I just say go buy a really cheap section and go build one house on it and expect it to take twice as long as you think it will and probably you'll make half as much or no money, you probably shouldn't lose any. But you'll then learn the process and understand if it's something you want to do on mass. I think a lot of people are better suited to just sticking at what they're good at in their job and then sort of going, I'm just going to buy a rental property every two years, I'm going to amass five to seven of them and I'm going to pay them down over 20 years. So it sort of depends how aggressive people want to be. I think people get too caught up in forgetting what they're good at and what makes the money and trying to sort of sacrifice that whilst trying to do investment.

100%.

And if people were to come to you guys and they want to be hands off, can you help facilitate that for them in terms of investing and creating a portfolio?

Yeah, definitely. So we're not financial advisors ourselves but we partner up with financial advisors and a lot of it's just what's your household income? How much can you afford to save? How often can you buy a house? What houses best suit you? Is it saying that's more of a capital gains approach, something that's more yield driven with the ideal goal of people getting a portfolio of say three to five properties and then paying them down in time for retirement or when they reach retirement having enough equity where they might be able to sell two to clear the debt on the other three and then get that say 100, $150,000 a year passive income once they retire.

Brilliant. And do you think for people who are rookies at it, do you think there's a big difference with knowledge, the knowledge gap between going commerc Property as an investment versus residential.

Hey James here.

I wanted to take a quick moment to let you know about something. Look, I get asked to deliver keynotes and workshops for teams and companies all over the world, from London to Antarctica, from America to Australasia, from armies to small businesses to large corporates, to sports teams. But I go in and deliver keynotes around the mindset of high performers, around the habits of high performers, about how we navigate change. If you would like me to come and speak to your team or speak at your conference or deliver a bespoke workshop, please get in touch with my team. Carolinejlochlan.com will be able to help. I'll also make sure that we put that in the show notes.

I think it comes back to risk appetite and also just what group you're in. Like if all your friends are in commercial property, that's probably the path you'll take. And if all the people you hang out with are in residential rentals, that's probably the path you'll take. But I think there's probably some really good viable entry level commercial investments. But then also they do come with higher deposit requirements, that more tenancy risk, different bank assessment criteria. But there's definitely no right or wrong. Like I know extremely wealthy people that just do residential and extremely wealthy people that just do commercial. And then some people have a little bit of both.

That's awesome. And I love, I just love what you guys are doing and how you're doing it. It seems that you've got absolute clarity of focus. You know where you're headed, you know the numbers and you guys have great communication within the team. So when it comes to goal setting, like for you personally and for the team, do you sit down and go, okay, the next five years, this is it, or the next 24 months, this is what we're doing. What's your goal or even your objective process? How do you make a process to move forward towards that?

I suppose it's more like we're big believers in having what I call a really dumb big goal where we sort of have our 100 year plan of what the business is and what we want to achieve and why I want to be around in 100 years time. Then we have sort of a more tangible 10 year plan, roughly tracking what we want the business to be looking like, progressing through those 10 years. And then you sort of have your immediate goal of the next 12 months. But it's sort of really big, a bit unbelievable, makes you feel a bit uncomfortable, but it's Sort of you want to lift your thought process to Instead of selling 100 homes a year, how do we sell 1,000 and work backwards from that? As opposed to sort of being a normal business where they go, let's try grow 10% a year, it's more try, go, let's go for a really unobtainable goal and work backwards from that, which essentially works backwards from sales and marketing.

That's brilliant. So you set your vision and then you reverse engineer the process from there.

Yeah, so it's more like last financial year we sold just over 700 homes and we go, we want to sell 15 to 2,000 homes this financial year. So step one, let's double our marketing and then let's see if we can double our leads and then let's see not what breaks first, but then if we go, okay, we've now got too many leads, we need to get more people in the sales team. And then it sort of works backwards from that, just with that same ethos of put sales at the tip of the sphere and then work down the sphere as needed. I think too many businesses grow everything else to try their growth without actually seeing if the sales are going to be there. And then all they do is get swamped by overhead and achieve the same result that would double the cost of operating.

Amazing. That's such a great insight. A lot of people will probably not take that approach in their first steps. To hear that now, I hope somebody is listening to that. Step into it. That's bloody brilliant. I love it. Obviously you're doing massive things, like huge things, and you guys, you have a life to match it. So what are the challenges with professionally driving really hard and then balancing it with health, with relationships, all the other stuff? How do you manage it all?

I suppose it's more, I think it really helps business wise, just doing one thing and doing one thing really well. So even though we have a lot on, it's more or less the same kind of products, the same systems, the same processes, not bogging yourself down, an unnecessary admin day to day in the business and that sort of frees you up where you're not trying new things all the time. So the business, although it's big and there's lots of things going on, it's not playing on your mind every night you're sleeping really well and then essentially empowering your team to be responsible for the work they do. And that obviously flows on to essentially making you feel clear and good. So you can go to the gym, you can do date Nights you can do time away. I think too many people wait too long to empower their team and try to do it all themselves, which really comes the detriment to growth, not the other way.

And what was your greatest obstacle? Was there a point where you guys were kind of two or three or four of you guys juggling some things, then you realized, okay, there's a tipping point, we need to hire. Was there an obstacle between where you guys were at, where you needed to get to when you were hiring?

Yeah, it was kind of similar to what I said before. We sort of the business grew because we started selling essentially a lot more than what we were. So you sort of grow the sales team and you go, okay, well now we need to grow the consenting team. Okay, now we need to grow the delivery team. Okay, we need to grow the finance team. So it was reasonably incremental, but yeah, it was definitely that point of just.

I suppose, like I said, we do the same thing over and over again. So say a widget for us, is that a block of 15 townhouses, the exact one to 100 steps to deliver that project. So then you know sort of what each part of the team's capacity constraints are and know when a second person or third person or fourth person is needed because we do the same thing over and over again.

Brilliant. So in terms of scaling, so we fast forward 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, you know, what are your ambitions as a company when you're scaling from here, where you are now, and where will it be sitting in that, you know, two decades?

Yeah. Sportswearing is like, there's always going to be market risks of getting too big in one city or country. So I suppose like for New Zealand, ideally It's around that 15 to 1700 homes a year. And I would really like to go take on Australia and just try to sort of a low scale test case in three different Australian cities. Just say a block of six in each park that for a year, see how it goes, then go, what were the sales like? What were the councils like? What's the government like? What's the margin like the construction team and then see if there's a viable market to then essentially replicate what we've done here over there. Set sort of the next, say one to four years, that sort of time period. And then ideally just see where else we can take that around, around the place.

I love it. You'll be a global titan before we know it.

Yeah. Building houses everywhere, hopefully.

Hell yeah, I love it. And it's interesting. Yes. So the one word that came to mind as you're saying that was testing. Like take your idea and then test it. Get out there and test it. So you're going to Australia with an open mind, not these preconceived expectations or ideas. You're like, we'll go there, we've got a formula, we're going to test, we're going to market, we're going to try, we're going to evaluate and then we'll make it a big decision whether we invest long term.

Yeah, 100%. I think that's one thing we learned quite well when we went from just developing in Christchurch, we went into the Auckland market, we sort of bought three or four projects to test the market. And exactly what I just talked about, where it would have been a lot easier if we just did one and just had the one. Except it's going to take a year longer to get there. But then just learn all the lessons in one project and then replicate it on scale. And then that worked really well for us. And we then branched into Wellington just having that one test project. And then we'll go from delivering seven homes in our first year to 200 the following, as opposed to having that growth appear fast at the start, but actually it's not. But it's just a bit of aggressive patience is what's required.

Aggressive patience.

I love it. Aggressively patient.

I need to be more of that at times. As a young dad, well, not so young anymore, but as a dad with a youngster, aggressive patience would be a good thing.

I love it. And let's talk about wealth, right? Because there's so many connotations around wealth and some people have this anti wealth thing, like, hey, money's bad or money doesn't grow on trees, this negative wealth mindset. So as someone who's operating with millions of dollars and you're investing and you're transforming other people's lives in the process, what do you think is a great way to think about wealth and how wealth can help the world, the community?

I suppose it's more like there's an abundance of wealth and money. I think there's a preconception that if someone's done well and gotten wealthy, especially in New Zealand, it's at the detriment of somebody else. And I think, don't get wrong, there are some corporates and large businesses where that is the case. They might get wealthy, but ruin the Amazon rainforest or drop 50,000 litres of crude oil and the ability to go for Mexico. But I think generally it's more shifting the focus away from capitalism and towards ethical capitalism where we can make money, our builders can, our suppliers can, the person we bought the land off, our investors that give us money can the home buyers can when they sit on their home. So I think it's more people don't need to look at wealth as a win lose. It can be a win win. And the fact is like right now there's $11 trillion in banks getting negative interest. There's just so much money in the world. Yeah. People are so caught up that just because you have some, you've taken it from someone else when that's not the case or in most cases that's not the case.

And for you as you're building wealth and you know when you look at the span of life, you're still really young and you're doing incredible things. What's it allowing you to do for your own personal life and your family, your friends, your community?

Well, I think it's sort of like it's freedom you can do, obviously you can do what you want, but you don't need to worry about buying food, paying your power bill, paying your mortgage. If you want to go on holiday, you can. If you want to take friends out for dinner and cover the bill, you can. So it's more just, I think it frees up your mind to think at a higher level. I think there's actually a lot of studies showing that if people are worried about paying their bills, essentially puts their mind into a primate state of going, I'm living hand to mouth. And they can never think about getting ahead of proving themselves, their health, their relationships, their business, their job, et cetera.

Absolutely. That's so powerful when you look at the human needs, certainty and significance of the first two. And certainty is really around financial certainty for a lot of people and safety. And so most people are still operating there. They don't get down to those spiritual needs which are contribution and growth. And when you talk about thinking, higher thinking, that's brilliant. So something I encourage a lot of my clients to do is create think time where they're each week, at least an hour, a couple of hours would be great, where they sit down, they ask themselves thought provoking questions, they flesh out business ideas, scalability of their current ideas. Bill Gates takes two weeks a year where he goes to a lake by himself with like 20 books and yeah, I've read that. Yeah, he's into it.

It's quite a long time to think.

Yeah, it is. But people like him, like you take him or maybe even Warren Buffett. So Warren Buffett only needs to make three good decisions a year. That's it. Most of us need to make three good decisions a week. He just needs to make three a year. So when you think, what is your process like? Because you think big. I know you do and the results prove it. So how do you think and do you have a. Like, do you write things down? Do you ask questions? Do you seek mentorship?

I suppose it's one of the things where there's a lot of thinking involved. But also just since we have the roadmap and the goal so clearly laid out, you sort of know exactly what you need to do on any given day. So there's always. We schedule time to do like a strategy meeting and innovations meeting for sort of that more high level thinking. But since it's just the same thing day in, day out, it sort of becomes just built into your day to day structure. It's not something that you have to go, I haven't thought for a while, let's make a plan about what we're doing in a year's time. Because it's all been mapped down and worked backwards from. Yep.

Do you actually. It's a part of your framework, it's part of the fabric of who you are.

Yeah, that's just part of the day to day. I love that we sort of have a business ethos of get 1% better every day. And that's not in one particular area. That's just us with what we do every day, what the team does every day, what the contractors do every day. It's just, I think growth and success is tens of thousands of small things done slightly better. Because I think too many people focus on it's not working. Where's the one big change to make it work?

Brilliant. So rather than global changes, it's about micro changes.

Yeah. Just thousands of small little tweaks and adjustments.

That's brilliant. I love it. It's almost like a Formula one team, you know, when they're adjusting things.

Well, yeah. They spend what, a million dollars per. What's like 10 million per second or something? Just insane.

Totally. And what about. We'll wrap up here shortly, but one question I had for you was in terms of your teams and leaders within those teams, how do you empower them and help them grow as leaders?

Good question. One, we run a reasonably flat management structure, so we don't have layers upon layers of management. And then two, we have very transparent and clear systems and processes where it's here's your role, here's your job, here's the system process to follow, here's the expectation. And then it's sort of also, there's always an open door to management if you need to talk to them. And then we've got easy ways to essentially look at those systems and processes so there's not that second guessing going. Is James doing a good job? Is he not? If you have a thought about that, you can easily check the work, the system, the process and then get involved. If there is a problem, or at least reassure yourself that there isn't a problem, that's great.

So you remove all ambiguity. It's really clear what's going on.

Yeah. And it also stops people from like protectionism, where managers worry about, I don't want someone else to take my job, so I'll sort of lock the information away and hide it from everyone else. We sort of always try to business in a really transparent, open manner and sort of get rid of the scarcity mindset going, if someone's better than you, that's not a threat, that's a good thing. Why would you want everyone under you to be worse? I think too many managers are worried about empowering their team because they're worried they'll get demotion and someone else will get put in their place. As opposed to realizing a good business is big enough for everyone to have their own success. It doesn't have to become the structured system of the person behind me is always worse than me.

That's so cool. And too few businesses take that approach. And that's why you see politics, it's so active in a lot of workplaces, part of the culture. So that's lovely that you've done that. I think that's powerful. And if we were to look at your competition and you don't need to name competition, but how does that drive you? When you look at the goats of property development, whether it's in Australia, New Zealand, whether it's in North America, when you see them, whether they're individuals or they're big brands, what do you do when you see that? What they're doing with their opportunities, what they're doing with their revenue, their scale, how do you use that to drive what you're doing and innovate?

Good question. I suppose it's more especially in the property development space. Generally everything you see in the marketplace will be, say, one year old. If I drive past someone's finished project, that was their thought process from a year ago. That's now eventuated so it's quite a hard space to try. I know a lot of competitors try sort of copy their other competitors. Whereas I think what we've always done quite well is just focus on what we do, focus on what our buyers want, our market feedback, and go through our own projects going, if we built this again, what would be these small little tweaks and changes we do as? It's kind of like whenever you photocopy something through a printer, every time you copy it, the quality goes down. I think too many people in the development space see something and try copy it without realizing that it just won't be as good as what that first thought person managed to produce.

That's awesome. So you run your own race?

Yeah, essentially it's one of like I like looking at like Harry Triggerboff in Australia. He's built 75,000 apartments. But then also that's quite a different marketplace. I can't go build a 75 story apartment building in Christchurch and have the same success that he did doing it in Sydney. So I think it's more just running your own race and just improving your own product, not necessarily trying to copy other people's.

That's fantastic. I love it. And the last question I wanted to ask you, so it's the Life On Purpose podcast and I ask everyone that comes on is to you, what does living a life mean on purpose actually mean?

I think it's, it's a mixture of things. I'd say it's being happy with what you do every day so you only get one chance at it. And I think too it's also empowering people and people that you bring up with you. Like I think I know a few people that are really wealthy but quite lonely and miserable. And I think you get just as much joy from a non financial sense of business as you do from a financial sense. Whether that be clients being really happy with their product or staff improving their own processes and their own sort of self purposes, empowering them to look after their children, their husbands, their wives, et cetera. So living a life of purpose isn't just yourself, but also those key people around you. And it's a lot more than just sort of financial merits.

That's amazing. Well, hopefully everyone that's listened to that will take some notes on that because what you're doing financially, professionally is just incredible. But what you're doing in your personal life matches it. And I think that that's the real synchronicity and that's the joy that you get from what you do is that there's all these things that happen and you create from that process of thinking the way you think.

Definitely.

So thank you so much for taking the time. Blair, on the company. An epic year ahead.

Yeah. No, thank you. Don't be. Maybe we have to catch up in a year's time and see how we went on our goals.

Let's do it. Cheers, Blair.

Thanks, James. You have a good one.

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