https://www.listennotes.com/e/81bca401b2c0455593afaca1d5681766

Hey, James here. Got some news for you. My book is now available for pre-order. That's right, in the show notes, you can go and pre-order it today. And if you do, I'm going to give you some incredible free bonuses. Head over to thehabibook.com that's thehabibook.com to pre-order yours today. Welcome to the Lead on Purpose podcast. I'm James Lachlan, former seven-time world champion and now coach to entrepreneurs, CEOs, professional athletes all over the world. This show is for people who refuse to settle, people who are driven, people who want to grow, who know that there's so much more to learn and want to learn from the world's best. Each week, I bring you insights from a special guest who's at the top of their game, whether they're in Formula One, whether they're a billionaire, whether they've started a company from scratch and ticket to the top. I bring them to you so that you can rewire your mindset, take action and lead a A life of purpose. Let's get started. Today's special guest is Dr. Matt ChamerS, and we're gonna talk about hardcore wellness, fasting, hormones, and biohacking. Enjoy the episode. The Lead On Purpose podcast is sponsored by NZ Mortgages. Learn more at nzmortgages.co.nz.

Dr. ChamerS, a huge welcome to the.

Lead On Purpose podcast. Ah, thanks for having me. I'm so excited to chat to you. Why? Because over the last year, I've been on a health journey and it's been highs and lows. There's been lots of obstacles, there's been mixed messages. But someone who's in their late 30s, you know, pushing towards 40, I'm starting to think about my health. I'm starting to consider mortality and I want to have a longer life, but not just longer, I want a better quality life. And so I've been looking at things, reading things, interviewing incredible people. When I came across your work, so God, we've got to chat because I know you can help me. And if you can help me, it means you can help lots and lots of listeners as well who are probably in a similar journey. So you wrote a book called the Pillars of Wellness. I'd like to start with this. What is the opposite of wellness?

It's feeling like crap all the time. So like my definition of wellness is the highest quality of life for the longest period of time possible. so, you know, it's not just that you're sick, it's, you know, or people like, well, I'm not throwing up. Yeah, but do you have lots of energy? Is your mind clear? Like, are you good with sex drive? Like, where are you? Are you happy with your, with the way your body feels? That's basically what Wellness is for what I'm looking at. So the opposite of that is just, just not being optimal. Yeah.

And that's what I want. I want to optimize. You know, I started working with this incredible guy. He was the human performance specialist for the Navy SEALs. and essentially he's a scientist. And he will look at your bloods and he will look at all different markers. It was just amazing highlighting stuff that I'd never even considered. And then once I got all this information, I was like, okay, what do I do with it? You know, how do I land the ship and then keep moving? So in terms of these pillars, what are the pillars of wellness?

So the pillars I look at are the biomechanical or how the body moves to making sure that, you know, we have full functional movement for the rest of our lives. It's a strong balanced coordinated movement. The biochemistry, which is the nutrition, like what you're eating, supplementation, your hormones, things like that, making sure that is set up right. And then the psychological pillar, which is how you think and how you react in the environment. And then the spiritual pillar, which is kind of like a legacy thing. It's what have you done to better the people behind you as you left? What have you done to to better society. Those are the ways that we look at it because your legacy is a big piece of your psychology, and it is what you're going to leave no matter what. And so if we start focusing on it, we start changing who we are because we're trying to leave the best option we can for the planet. And so that's what those four pillars are.

Incredible. So there's a couple of those that I've probably started stepping into over this last year. The whole biochemistry those biomarkers. I'd like to talk a bit more about that because here was my experience and others might have done this as well. I went to my doctor, said, look, a final lump, bit worried, and they're like, cool, it looks red, take an antibiotic. If it's still infected, once you finish antibiotics, come back in. So it was still there, but the redness had gone down a little bit. We went in, okay, yeah, maybe we'll send you for a mammogram. So I go there and get that, and I say, hey, can we do some bloods as well? And they're like, oh yeah, we'll send you for, so literally it was like total blood count, cholesterol, it was like four basic standard tests. And I was like, this is not gonna tell me what I want. So I went with like a list of about 35 different markers, you know, looking at all the different stress hormones, looking at testosterone, estrogen, all the things. And the doctor said, no, no, no, no, no, we're not sending you for that. But I want to. No, no, the hospital won't like it if we do that. I don't really care what the hospital wants. I'm going to be selfish this one time and I'm going to tell you.

What I really want.

And I just want to know, am I healthy? What can I do to get better supplements? What can I do to see if there's anything dangerous in there? They wouldn't encourage it. They didn't give me a rubber stamp. I had to literally go on self-refer at a blood bank and they let me do it, which I never knew I could do. That then started opening up a chain of events. So for someone who's listening right now, Dr. Chambers, what would you suggest they do to get a bit of a baseline marker on their biochemistry? So a lot of it's depending upon.

Goals, but the thing that I see over and over and over again that's problematic is the things that are just not pulled. Testosterone, free testosterone, and sexual hormone binding globulin. So when you have a total testosterone and you have, that's just how much is in your blood. free is how much can actually be really beneficial in the body. And then the sexual hormone binding globulin basically is kind of why your free test might be low. And so there's things you can take. We use something called superior mineral that has boron in it and it blocks sexual hormone binding globulin, freeing up more testosterone in your free test range. But so I would look at testosterone, free testosterone, sex hormone binding globulin, and the most important hormone you can pull. is insulin. If you figure out where your insulin is, that is the key to getting fat off your body. It's the key to, you know, ending diabetes. It's the key to all metabolic function in the body. So when you pull that and you understand where that one is, you want it basically below 10, the lower the better. But when you figure out that what that one is, that's gonna give you a lot more function. I'm always a big fan of, you know, I like the CBC, the CMP, 'cause there's things in there that are really important. anybody who's doing any hormone therapy needs to check their ALT, AST a little bit, but they really need to check their H and H, the hemoglobin hematocrit levels because the only reason testosterone is damaging to the heart or to causes heart attacks or strokes is because your hemoglobin hematocrit levels get too high, your blood gets too thick, the pressure goes up inside your heart and inside your blood vessels, and that's where the problem arises. So it's completely safe as long as you watch those two levels. And so that's one of those things we usually like to see is, you know, where are those things? And, a lot of times when we know that there's a lot of metabolic function we can now do. So, that's basically it.

Dr. Chambers, I love that you say that once we get that information, it's not just that, oh, you got the thing. It's a, hey, yeah, there's your marker and here's what we can do. There's a lot that we can do.

To actually impact those levels, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, when we have low testosterone, injectable testosterone is my favorite. The creams work, but it's kind of an everyday thing and some of those things have what's called transdermal penetrating factors in them, which are problematic. pellets can come out, they can cause pocketing, which is damage to the tissue. And then the biggest issue I have with them is that it's hard to regulate the exact level. Because if you're doing injections and I pull your blood, it's easy to be like, we need to go up or we need to go down. Like, here's exactly what we need to do dose wise, and we can regulate a little bit easier. So I'm a big injection fan. You know, you can do the everyday ones. You can do the, like, the subcutaneous.

You can do.

I am. I'm an IM fan. But I've got a bunch of my pro bodybuilder buddies are big into the whole, like, everyday insulin version. I'm like, All right, that's fine. Smaller syringe and all that stuff, and I like it the way I do it. So there's a variety of different things and ways that you can bring the testosterone levels up. And then pulling your insulin levels down is just regulating your glycemic function. It's basically like a carbohydrate function. Bring that down, insulin comes down, and.

Everything kind of regulates from there. That's amazing. Look, Dr. Chalmers, I have a lot of people who talk to me about, I want to improve my health, James. And so I coach individuals. and I'm not a health coach, but I'm able to direct them to the right professionals to do the work. And one thing that keeps coming up is James, I'm counting my calories. I was like, okay, that seems interesting. It seems odd. So what do you believe from your own scientific background and your professional background around calories, counting them? Is that the way to go?

So the problem we get into with calories is that there's a lot of research and study on them that doesn't makes sense. So for instance, the definition of a calorie is the amount of energy required to heat one kilogram of water, one degree Celsius. So it's not a measurement of energy that's in the body. It's a measurement of heat. Like, like you would use temperature degrees. Like if it's 70 degrees outside and then it goes to 80, there's 10 extra degrees. So if you take a bottle of water and you heat it one degree Celsius, you've added one calorie to it. And the problem we get into is that when we look at calories and we say, well, that's the energy source of the body. That's not accurate. The energy source of the body is ATP, which is a chemical thing. Fat is also a chemical. So my question is, how do we take, my question at the beginning when I started looking into this was, how do we take this energy thing that is not a chemical and how do we create something I can hold in my hand, which is a chemical? So unless we're having energy to matter transversion in the body, there's something else going on. And so what I found out was, it's about the hormone function between insulin and glucagon. insulin stores sugars as fats. Glucagon burns fats using proteins to create more sugar to balance the sugars in the body. So it's a little bit longer process, but that's kind of where, where everything is. Cause when I looked at the, when I looked at everything, everybody talks about losing fat, losing weight. And so you've got what's called, you have a somatotype chart, which is ectomorph, mesomorph, endomorph, depending on how, how your body handles these hormones. So what we look at is like, well, how do we lose the fat? Well, if we cut the amount of nutrients we're bringing in, we cut the calories or the amount of food we bring back, then somebody loses weight. Their bodies are basically balanced between insulin and glucagon. And so they lose weight really easily. The guys who have really hard times losing weight are what are called endomorphs. They're hypersensitive to insulin, not as sensitive to glucagon. So it's more difficult for them to lose weight. Now, the reason that I started figuring this out was because there's a group of people we never talk about. When you're talking about weight loss, the people you never talk about are those guys we all know they can eat whatever they want to and never gain an ounce. So here's the thing, if there's the guys who can eat tons of calories and not gain weight, and there's guys who can eat a little bit and gain weight, then you're like, well, their metabolisms are different. Well, that's not what the calories in calories out model shows. The calories in calories out means everybody's equal. And if Ted eats a thousand and I eat a thousand calories, we're going to be the same amount of fat or thin. and so when I started looking at this model, I was like, well, I know guys. I've hung out with guys who can eat 10 times more than I do and never gain an ounce. So I know these people exist. And so as we started putting, I started putting it together, I started realizing the sensitivity to the hormones and how your body reacts to them according to what the macros you're eating are. So fat gets absorbed as fat, sugar gets turned into a triacyl glyceride molecule that then differentiates into LDL, HDL, triglyceride. kale microns, that type of thing, or is absorbed and born as fat. And then proteins are never gonna become fat. There's a whole process behind it, but those proteins will be broken down. And then your body uses a process called gluconeogenesis to turn that protein into sugar to balance your blood sugars out. So that's kind of how those works. The glucagon burns the fat, makes the sugar, insulin stores the sugar as fat. So when we start looking at it, we have to look at the macro function of what you're actually eating. and then break it down that way. So that's actually the way we do it. It works really well for mesomorphs. It's the only way we can get guys who are really, really lean, who can't gain weight to gain weight. And it's the easiest way for endomorphs, guys like me, to actually start cutting the fat off and still get to eat what they like, pizzas and stuff like that. So it's all the good stuff. All the good stuff, yeah. So it's what it's what's in the.

Food, not what the calories are. Right. And in terms of intermittent fasting over the last, I would say, 9 to 12 months, there's been a massive surge People starting it, trying it. Obviously, there's a few influential characters who've written books and a few influential influencers who've talked about it. I personally have been intermittent fasting since December and just time restricted. Stop eating at 6:00 PM and I'll start again around 10:00 or 11:00 AM next day. It's fine. I haven't noticed major changes. It seems fine. What is the research around it? Is it a useful thing to do for health and wellbeing? Hey, James here. I wanted to take a quick moment to let you know about something. Look, I get asked to deliver keynotes and workshops for teams and companies all over the world, from London to Antarctica, from America to Australasia, from armies to small businesses to large corporates to sports teams. But I go in and deliver keynotes around the mindset of high performers, around the habits of high performers, about how we navigate change. If you would like me to come and speak to your team or speak at your conference or deliver a bespoke workshop, please get in touch with my team. Caroline@jjlachlan.com will be able to help. I'll also make sure that we put that in the show notes.

Absolutely. So I do, so I run a I ran a 23 one, so I eat once a day. And that I just came back to that because I was for about three months, I ran a 47 one where I eat once every two days. And the reason I jump in there.

For the person that doesn't know anything about fasting, when you say 23 one, that means for 23 hours a day, you don't eat and one hour a day is your eating window.

Correct.

And then you did do 47 one.

Correct.

Yeah.

Wow.

Okay, tell me more.

All right, so what happens is that when your body is put in a position, because your body has to have sugar, it has to have blood sugar, your blood can only run on glucose, which is pretty cool because your body will make it. And so when your body starts making the blood sugar to balance all your sugars out, it has to use something besides sugar as its fuel source. So it uses fat. So it'll start creating the sugar out of proteins using fat and burning fat. But as it does that, your body will also start cannibalizing other nutrients and other things like that, trying to scrape up enough stuff to regenerate and heal and stuff like that. So that's where we get the autophagy comments. That's where we get some of that type of stuff. But the real big benefit is that you are now using endogenous or inside your body's abilities to create blood sugar instead of the exogenous sources which are bringing it in from diet. And so it's a lot healthier for your liver. It's a lot healthier for your blood system because it regulates the sugars a little bit easier. and of course it's burning fat. Now, the problem we get into with intermittent fasting, especially into with fasting cardio and fasting working out, is that your body is going to start making that sugar out of proteins. If you don't put protein in the body, it's going to tear apart your muscle tissues to get that protein. And so if you really want to, to maximize the fasting, I have people take collagen. The collagen is a protein that with no glycemic effects, so it doesn't really break the fast, but it allows the body a protein source to use and cannibalize instead of your muscle tissues to then create the sugars it needs to run the body off of. And so if you're gonna do it, I always recommend to like, you don't need to eat. Your body has enough fat in it to produce all the ATP your body needs for energy. What it does need is methylated B vitamins, CoQ10, omega-3 fatty acids. So if you're gonna have your body run, it needs both calories and nutrients. So if you take, you know, if you take the calorie or you take the ATP creation piece out and you allow the body to have the nutrients, it will use the fat on your body to produce all that ATP and keep you healthier the entire time as long as it's got the nutrients to do it. So that's the big thing is you got a supplement as you diet, as you, as you intermittent fast to maintain.

All full function of the body. Thank you. That's really honestly incredibly helpful to hear for someone who's on a plant-based diet. What's your suggestion to them around getting the right amount of protein?

Alright, so this brings up a very important point. The body doesn't really want protein. It wants amino acids and amino acids are in protein. And it sounds like I'm splitting hairs, but it's really important when we talk about plant-based diet or vegan diets. One of the most important amino acids you can get is tryptophan. Tryptophan turns into serotonin and also into melatonin. So when we see depression, we see things like that, I look at the diet and I'm like, you're on plant-based, which is fine, but you're not getting the amino acids you need in. And so that's why a lot of times I'll talk to people and be like, okay, how plant-based do we have to be? Because if you wanna be plant-based and you wanna take the collagen, you're totally fine. Cause you get all your amino acids you need. Now we just need to worry about CoQ10 and B12 and things like that, which you can also supplement in. But that's the issue we run into. Now, people bring up, they what about soy? And soy has some of these things in it and that's fine. But the problem we went into the United States is that the last number I saw was 97% of the soybeans in this country are genetically modified. They also have a lot of them have glyphosate on them. So glyphosate is a toxin that we basically only have in the US. It's one of the big reasons we have all this gluten sensitivity issues is because it damages the gut. It's banned in most other countries. So I think New Zealand, you guys don't, you guys might, I can't remember, I don't think you guys have it. So that's the other way she was. yeah, that's the other issue with soybeans is that they're genetically modified and they've got the glyphosate. But the other problem we run into is that they're a very strong phytoestrogen. And so we have to understand about estrogens is that you have, when you look at hormones, you have the actual hormone, then you have the receptor site, and the hormone attaches to the receptor site, and then it makes things happen. So locks and keys. The problem is, is that there's other things that can attach that receptor site, telling the body that it's getting estrogen. when it doesn't have estrogen in the blood. So people will pull blood levels and be like, your estrogens are low, but then you end up with stuff like gynecomastia or you end up with, you know, other issues that resulting like, oh, well this is very, very similar to estrogen dominance and you're getting it from these Xeno and phytoestrogens. And so that's the problem with, with soy. Some people have a big issue with it. Some people don't, but when you're looking at plant-based, you've gotta make sure, again, it's not proteins and fats, it's are we getting all of the different fats we need? Are we getting all the different amino acids we need? and you can supplement them, but that's one of those things you have to be cognizant of when you're designing a diet.

That's really helpful. So for me, I should be considering collagen. I should be considering B12.

So make sure they're methylated, but yes, so a fully methylated B12 is gonna be what you're gonna want. That's methylcobalamin.

Okay, brilliant. And anything else?

So there's a couple big ones, methylated B6 and methylated folic acid. So methylated B6, so the, you've heard of gallstones, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I tell people they don't really exist. And there's a reason I say this. And the reason is because the gallbladder is a bag. It's like your pocket or a purse. Nothing's gonna get into it unless you put something in it. And so what ends up happening is that bile salts are supposed to sit in the gallbladder. The bile salts are made in the liver. If the liver runs out of methylated B six, those, those bile salts, which are supposed to be like a WD 40 really slick consistency, they start turning into basically rubber cement. So that's where we get these little balls. They're bile salts. They're bile salt balls because they've lost the methyl B6 that come down from the liver into the gallbladder and they get squished together into larger balls. And that's where we get gallstones. The reason this is important to realize that these aren't gallstones, they're liver stones, is because if you cut the gallbladder out and go, we fixed the problem. No, you didn't. The liver's still congested with this lack of methyl B6. And so we need to really increase the levels of methyl B6. to make sure everything kind of balances out. So when we start talking about the B vitamins we should take, I tell people just everybody just needs to take a full spectrum methylated B vitamin and you'll be fine. There's a lot of genetic issues, MTFHR, MTT-R, COMT, there's a bunch of them that cause methylation problems. And so if you just give your body the methylated B vitamins, you sidestep all that issue and you're fine.

So take the methylated B's and you'll be good. That's seriously helpful. Thank you. And yeah, for me, I'm plant dominant. So I'm not opposed to trying some other things. My partner is ethical vegan. So for her, it's like, no, it's gonna be absolutely strict and I respect that. So that's seriously helpful. And this kind of chemist that I have and started a year ago, potentially it could be to do with what I'm consuming or not consuming.

Well, so that's the thing is you also have to look at everything and be like, okay, this came from somewhere. This chemistry happened for some reason. Mm-. And so like a lot of times we'll see this type of thing. And, you know, one of the things we'll use for gynecomastia type of stuff, especially for on testosterone, something that is something like a Remi Dex or anastrozole, which blocks the conversion of testosterone into estrogen. And so we decrease the total amount of estrogen that's in the body. And then for like plant-based stuff, I give people DIM all the time and DIM helps basically bind and pull out some of the Zeno and phytoestrogens as well. Um, so there's, there's a, there's a couple of things we can do on that. Um, I like using different like estroflavones and things like that, especially in coffee enemas to bind and pull a lot of stuff out, those extra estrogens out. But at the end of the day, gynecomastia is an estrogen issue. And so if we pull your blood and your estrogens are totally fine in.

Your blood, which they do come from somewhere else.

Yeah.

Yeah. My testosterone was normal, estrogen was normal, and the doctors were scratching their heads like, I don't know. And that's where they stopped.

They just stopped there.

And I want to know, it's like, let's go deeper.

Yeah. Well, and that's, so that's like, that's where we start going into. So I love, like, I do giant amounts of Western medicine testing. Like, whenever somebody comes in, they're like, my cholesterol. And I'm like, I don't want to hear about your cholesterol. Like, if you want to talk about your cardiovascular health, don't talk about cholesterol. They're, they're not tied to each other at all. Like, we did a study here in 2009, 136, 000 people, I say we, UCLA did the study, UCLA Medical did the study. 136,000 people in the hospital for a heart attack and 75% of them had good cholesterol levels. So the amount of cholesterol doesn't really matter. It's lipid peroxidation, which is an oxidative stress issue. But if you want to know, don't pull your blood, get an echocardiogram, which is a video of the heart actually beating. So we can see, oh, you have leaky valves, you have myocarditis, you've got a hole in your heart, whatever. We can actually see the heart physically beating, like the inside of it. And then you get what's called a calcium CT. I prefer the ones with dye, the CTAs. But now we can look inside your blood vessels and go, do you have any plaquing? Because if you have plaquing, now we need to do something about it to fix the reason why you're plaquing so that we don't have a heart attack or stroke. So, you know, as we're going through some of these things, like that testing is phenomenal. But what I really, really like is we use Eastern medicine testing, muscle testing, energy medicine to go through and figure out, you know, different things about people. So parasitic infections, we can go through and test the gut, the chyme, the spot itself. and be like, yeah, you've got xeno and phytoestrogens in here, and so we can use X, Y, and Z to help strip those out. So I love to use a lot of the Eastern and the Western medicine together, because I think if you look at it from two different vantage points.

You get a lot more information about something than if you just looked at it from one. 100%. And Dr. Chalmers, can people say in Australia, South Africa, UK, who are not close to you physically, can they go.

And speak with specialists in that Eastern medicine? There's a lot of guys out who are doing muscle testing. The problem we get into with muscle testing is it's just information. It's like when you hand somebody a lab and they look at it and go, yeah, you're fine when they shouldn't have said that. It depends on the information this person gets and how well they know how to use the information. But yeah, there's people all over who are doing muscle testing and stuff like that. So the possibility of getting it's great.

The level I can't really speak to. Yeah, okay, great. And I want to go back to intermittent fasting for a second. So for people that are listening, you're not going to see Dr. Chalmers right now, but if you want to go and see him physically, go to YouTube and you'll see that he's ripped and he is a solid human. He's like a rugby player ready to go, right? So you are not eating for 23 hours a day. You've got a one hour window. You are not wasting away. So I want to probably highlight that to start with is that I feel that there's this fear that, oh my goodness, if I only have my window is probably like six, sometimes eight hours of eating, it's quite significant. God, I'm going to waste away. I haven't found that to be the case. And clearly you haven't. So what is the ideal window for the majority? If that's even a thing or is there a certain window that you think we should all be aiming for?

I don't have a I don't have a window for a for everybody. I don't like to do blanket stuff because everyone's metabolic chemistry is so different. Like I've got people who eat like once every two days. The once a day thing works for a lot of really busy adults. And so like when, when we, when we start getting through things, like what I, the way I do diets is I say, bring me your 10 favorite foods and the 10 foods you never want to eat again. I'll build a diet out of your favorite foods. And so they come in, they're like, great. And as we start going through it, I'm like, how important is breakfast to you? And I get the same answer every time. They're like, man, I love breakfast foods. And I'm like, it's me too. Not what I asked, but like the actual meal of breakfast. And people are like, you know, if I just have my coffee, I could skip breakfast. I'm like, then just skip breakfast. This is how we start doing them in our fatness. Fasting, they go, okay. So they skip breakfast and I'm like, How was lunch? They're like, I was pretty hungry for lunch. I'm like, well, then eat lunch. I'm like, now if you eat a big lunch, are you hungry at dinner? If they're like, Not really. I'm like, well then eat something smaller, don't eat at all. And so what ends up happening is that people kind of find their window. What happened with me was I quit eating breakfast and then I was like, Man, I don't have time to work out the way I want to and eat lunch. And so I was just like, you, know what? I'm gonna see if I can work out not eat. And so I started doing that and I was like, Man, this is a lot better. and the other thing about me is I like to eat a lot. Like when I start eating, I want to eat a bunch of stuff. So it doesn't matter if I eat three times a day or once, I'm gonna eat a lot because that's how I enjoy doing it. And so if I went to dinner, I could eat a giant amount of food, really, really enjoy it, and still lose the fat. So, like, I'm using this for bodybuilding. So I'm gonna be on stage December 7th at super heavyweight, and my goal is to be on stage for bodybuilding at about 250 pounds. and I'm eating, like I said, once a day.

Unreal. And do you use any steroids?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So the argument that testosterone is not healthy for you or is bad for you is absurd. There's been no research that shows anything about it outside of that, you know, making sure that your hemoglobin and accurate levels are okay. So I use testosterone, I use cypionate, I use nandrolone decanate, I'm a big Anavar and Winstrahl fan. And now on the oral pieces, this is one of the things we work with people all the time on. Because they're like, well, those are toxic and they're liver toxic, right? That's the big thing everybody talks about. Not really. So what happens is that you ask people like, well, it's toxic over time. It's not the first two weeks you take them, it's like two months in. So what you have to understand about chemistry is that things run on what's called a limiting reagent. So let's say we're baking cakes. We have a lot of flour and a lot of sugar, but we don't have any eggs. You can't make very many cakes because you've run out of eggs. That was your limiting reagent. And so what ends up happening is that when you take some of these anabolics, your liver has to process them at a different rate and it runs out of the chemicals it's using to process those chemicals. And so it ends up having to cut and break over other chemistry to get the chemicals it needs to do the metabolic processes of flushing them out. So if you feed the liver giant amounts of nutrients, It can actually maintain that function for a longer period of time. And again, it goes back to the chemistry of the body. What does the body need chemically? Give it that those things and it'll be fine. So I always say, put good chemicals in, bad chemicals out. Everything runs just fine. It's a chemical engine. Don't put morality on these things. It's a chemistry equation. Put the right chemistry in, everything works the way it's supposed to.

So that's how we do a lot of the anabolics and things like that. Thanks for sharing that. 'Cause I think it's one a topic most people are like, let's not talk about it. And it's also a topic where there is a generalization that, hey, steroids are just bad. Stay away, they are bad. I have never had an experience with them myself. As you can see, I am not exactly a bodybuilder, but I have known a lot of people who have used them. But you are the first person who has actually explained very clearly, chemically, how it works. That is very helpful. In terms of, again, the fasting, if someone was to go and fast for, let us say, 18 hours a day consistently. Would they be getting into that aut autophagy window? 16 hours is pretty close.

Like, there's gonna be some people who are like, anybody who's like, it's this amount of time. That's not how the body works. Like, yeah, some people are going to get into about eight or nine. Some people are going to get into about 23 or 24. You know, again, metabolically, we're a little bit different. That's why tracking things properly in, like, when I work with people, it's like, hey, Tell me how this thing went. How did you feel here? Like we can even track ketosis with blood work. So there's all sorts of things we can do to figure out where your specific window is. But most people, if you hit a 16, you know, eight spread, you're gonna do really well. So, you know, that I like the 16, eight, but I try to people tell people, you need a lot less food than you think you do. Like you need a lot more nutrients than you think you do. But if they are the actual amount of food, you don't need that much. So if you will start spreading out your meals or radically reducing what you're consuming and monitor the hormone function from it, you can control anything you want to in the body. So losing fat's really easy, gaining muscle's pretty easy. As long as you can regulate the chemistry that's going on, that's all you gotta do. So if you can eat less, it's gonna be easier for you on both.

Sides, gaining muscle and losing fat. And in terms of autophagy, if that's new for someone, how do you explain that and what are the benefits of it?

It's basically like recycling. So let's say your body has a lot of, you know, old dying cells and they're like, Hey, you're, you're, you're kind of on the way out. You're gonna go through what's called apoptosis sooner or later anyway. So we're gonna like kill you now and take the nutrients that are in you to repair and create new tissues and new cells, which is, it sounds terrible, but that's exactly what you want your body to do. Turnover of cells is extremely important. So it's how well your body is turning over your cells is how well you're gonna age as you go. And so again, that's the, are you getting all the chemicals that you need? Are you getting all the chemicals you need out, out? And that's really where that thing lies in is that your body is basically taking the stuff that's already in it, tearing it apart, utilizing, cannibalizing, if you will, whatever the good stuff is, and then throwing the rest of the junk away.

Really, really good. So for a lot of people, they may be familiar with that, but a lot are not. And the fact that that's a tool that we can use and tap into very quickly, three intermittent fasting. How amazing. The other thing I want to ask you about is, let's say, you know, from my own experience, I'm getting close to 40. I've got a young family. There's lots going on. There's business, there's responsibilities, there's maybe some stress. There's not lots of time, but there is some time to work out and focus on health. What should someone my age and stage be doing in terms of physical exercise? Is it the big long runs? Is it getting to the gym and pumping iron? Is it a mixture? What do you think is the best thing if you're short on time that at this age and stage we should focus on?

So again, everything I like to do is goal based. So I'll tell you that if you go out and you run five miles and it clears your head and you can relax and you can kind of calm down into it and you get done, you're like, ah, like all the problems of the day have washed away. Run, you need to go run. that shift with that calming down is a shift between the neurologic state of sympathetic, which is fight, flight, freeze, and parasympathetic, which is resting, digesting. The most important thing exercise actually does for us is shift us neurologically from sympathetic to parasympathetic and allows our body to regenerate and heal. So running can be your thing as long as it really clears your head. But if you're wanting to look for things that are like, okay, biggest impact on long-term health, I like weight-bearing exercises. But I like them. I take away all the bars. And the reason I do that is because, so if you do a single leg squat, let's say you're doing a right leg single leg squat or a single leg step up on a bench, your right ankle, your right hip, your right knee, the right low back, and the left low back have to strengthen and stabilize for you to do that motion. So what does that do? It builds your quads and your butt and it, everything looks good and feels good. However, we've just radically increased your balance, your coordination, your stability. so as you age, we worked on your neurology and we worked on your body's ability to move. So it's really, really important. And so as we start building those things up, it works great. So one of the things I can tell people is if you're doing bicep curls, if you use dumbbells and you just do a bicep curls where you're standing up, that motion of coming up, as long as you lock your core and try not to move at all, really, really good form, your core. So your, everything that touches your pelvis, your low back, your abs, everything has to lock you in and hold onto you and stabilize you while that weight is moving. So again, we're working our biceps and we're working our core. And so there's a lot of things you can do that way because one of the things we see long term is, let's say it's easiest to say with old women, but it happens to old men all the time too, because they haven't been doing, they don't have any testosterone and because they have not been working out, their bones get brittle and then they haven't been working out. So they have balance gets messed up. And so they fall, they break their hip. There's a lot of times where the active old lady breaks her hip and then she ends up cuz she's got a, you know, she's sedentary now. She has to do that. We see DBTs and we see all sorts of massive health problems come from that, that issue. So building your core, your balance, your coordination and putting that physical, electrical, that stress on the body, physiological, neurological stress on the body helps rebuild your bone tissue. So that's why I would tell people that lifting resistant weights is probably the best thing. from those arguments, I think you can get into. So, I definitely resisted weight-based workouts are going to be important.

That's so helpful to hear. And, in terms of the collagen piece to get specific, if I am wanting to do a clean fast, can I have collagen? Like, I have my black coffee during a clean fast, can I have the collagen as well?

Or would I wait and put it within the window? Oh, no, you can have your collagen throughout. And so, I always tell people, look, if you're going to work so hard to build the muscle, Don't eat it. Don't let your body eat it. And so, 'cause what'll happen a lot of times is people go, they do fasting cardio, they go to do fasting workouts, and they go in and they do this workout and they, their body goes, Look, I gotta have some blood tissue, I gotta have some blood. So it tears apart the muscle tissue, creates a little bit of sugar, and we're good. And then, so you've lost the muscle tissue. So you go home and you have your protein drink and your body rebuilds the tissue that you just lost. So you're basically spinning your wheels. And so that's why I tell people, take your collagen in the morning, Give her 30 or so minutes to start breaking down, then go work out or then go do your hip work or then go do whatever you're gonna do. And people are like, well, I like to just get up and leave. No, you don't. No one does that. So keep your college in by your bedside, wake up, take it, then go to the bathroom, then put your clothes on and put your shoes on and walk around the house. Because you've got about 20-30 minutes in there sooner or later 'cause you're gonna go to the bathroom, something like that. Take your college in immediately. then by the time you're out ready to run, you should be good. Great.

It could be in different forms, powder, capsule, doesn't matter.

Yeah. The joke I tell everybody is I like to be like, which one do you like? The capsules that are on my website, I take all the time. And the reason I prefer capsules is because I apparently do not possess the ability to scoop a powder from a container and put it into another container without getting it all over the counter. I just, I have tried so hard for so long and I just can't do it. So I'm like, screw it. Just give me the capsules.

It's easier for me. I'm too messy without them. That's so good. I love it. Good advice. And for me, this is not about being huge and, you know, big and bulk. This is to me when I'm 70, 80, 90, being able to walk, maybe even run, climb a hill, lift the shopping bags, not have to go into care because I have not looked after myself. So I really love that you're saying, James, you do your run if you want for your mental clarity, but actually the most important thing is resistance training.

Yeah.

Amazing. And what's your stance on alcohol? So a lot of my listeners are busy people. They have to socialize a lot, maybe entertain clients. Alcohol is a big part of their lives. What's your thoughts on its benefits to wellness?

So let me preface this by saying I actually designed a supplement that completely blocks hangovers because I used to drink so much, I didn't want to have hangovers. So I had to fix it. So I designed a supplement that completely blocks hangovers. Having said that, I don't. So I actually don't drink anymore. I quit drinking for bodybuilding. Not like, people are like, that's such a great thing. I'm like, no, I did it because, like, it's easier to burn the fat, to get rid of the fat if you don't drink alcohol. So, like, that's why I gave it up. After about six months, I started looking at it and was like, I don't miss it at all. Now, I use a. I use a decent amount of cannabis. but, and I did a TED Talk on replacing opioids with cannabis. I've done tons of research on cannabis, and I'm a big, big fan of cannabis for what it does. However, the only positive I'll give you on alcohol is if you come home and you take that glass of wine or you take even that scotch or whatever, and you take that first sip and you set that glass down and you just go, and you feel the day melt off you, that is you shifting from par, from stressed out, sympathetic back to parasympathetic. so that glass is important. The next four, not so much, but that one, that one's fine. So if you're like, this is the thing, this is why I tell my body, we're done for the day, we can relax, we can calm down, that drink is very, very valuable. So that's great. Having said that, if you can find another way of doing it, alcohol is pretty toxic all the way around. So outside of neurologic function, I'd tell you you probably want to Cut back as much as you can.

This is so good to hear. And, you know, all the experts that I've had on the show in terms of health have all said the same thing around alcohol. They struggle to identify one positive thing for wellness. I'm coming up five years of alcohol free. Feel great, don't miss it. And I do find other ways to get that shift into parasympathetic. For me, it's breath work. And that allows me, maybe even a physiological sigh. is sometimes enough to activate that. But you did mention cannabis, Dr. Chammers. So let's chat. It's a bit of a taboo topic in a lot of places, particularly in the workspace, particularly in professional services. This is kind of frowned upon. However, it has been legalized and decriminalized in a lot of countries. It's now available in New Zealand through prescription. It's still quite heavily regulated. But for me, you know, I was in the states, Arizona, California, they had in the supermarkets drinks that have CBD in them. And I was like, what is this? Like, I'm interested. So they were researching, oh cool. So I tried one of these drinks and as I say, get out of the supermarket. And after a day of pretty intense work and maybe a little bit of ups and downs in energy and anxiety, It was able, I can tell you now to shift how I felt within about a 30 to 60 minute period of time. And that's obviously not THC, the stuff that gets you high, it's the CBD, the cannabinoid component. That was quite remarkable. Now, coming back to New Zealand, I haven't tried anything since I've came back. I haven't went to THC. But for someone who is busy, for someone who is maybe experiencing stress, for someone who is, there's maybe ladies going through perimenopause or menopause here that are listening in, for people that are, you know, gynaecomastia sometimes gives me weird pains. I'm like, oh, the way. What function does cannabis have and what are the, the side effects if there are any?

So, like I said, my TED Talk, we, we go over it. Cannabis can replace opioids 64 of the time for pain, and they don't have any addiction issues. They don't have any overdose issues or anything like that. You can smoke as much cannabis as you want to. It's not going to kill you because the way that opioids and alcohol kill you is it shuts off the the autonomic respiration or the, the reason that you breathe without thinking about it. It's ruled over by what's called the ponds. Cannabis has, there's no receptors for C, for cannabis in the ponds, so, but there are a lot of opioid receptors there. So basically one of the reasons that you die from opioids is you just stop breathing. You don't start again. Now, cannabis isn't going to do that. But so, like, my son had surgery. He had a plate and six screws removed from his arm, and he had a, a one inch by about four-inch scar cut off as well. When he came home from the hospital, all I gave him was a sublingual cannabis that does have THC in it, but the dosage was so low that it blocked all of his pain, but he never had any psychological or any high issues. The problem we get into is because cannabis is phenomenal for anti-anxiety, it's great for helping you relax and calm down and shift out of that sympathetic nervous system. It actually has very inhibitory effects on what's called the amygdala. The amygdala in the brain has fear, hate, anger, terror, all that type of stuff. That's where it all lives. And so using the cannabis to calm that down is really, really beneficial. So on that, I'll tell you a story. So we were testing out these, these sublingual cannabis strips, and I'm one of those guys that I don't feel like I can speak on something with Integrity unless I've done it. And so my wife was, was going to, she had She had an event, all day event. My kids were going to something else all day long. And I'm like, this is fantastic. So I can test this stuff out. It'll be fine. It'll be great. And so I take one and that thing hadn't dissolved under my tongue for five seconds. And my wife calls me and goes, my thing didn't get canceled. The kids did. I'm dropping the kids off at home. And I'm like, okay, this is gonna be an interesting day. So they drop them off and, you know, we go through the whole day and towards the end of the day, everything's worn off and I am beating myself up. I'm like, you have crossed the line. This business ventures, put your family in danger. I'm just being a horrible human being to myself. And I'm laying down that night with my son, my oldest, and he rolls over and he goes, Daddy, I had a lot of fun with you today. Can we do this again? And I started thinking about it and I was like, who was I today? And so typically, maybe because I'm too spooled up in the PTSD or whatever, but if they repeat something more than three times, they go, toop, toop, I'll yell at them and be like, stop it. Well, they did that like four or five or six times and finally I was just like Zane and he was like, oh yeah, sorry. So I didn't have to yell at my kids. I still got that dealt with. You know, a seven year old's fart joke's a lot funnier when you've had a little cannabis. And so we laughed more and you know, that type of stuff. I was still like, again, doses is a massive problem. Like, if you dose it right, it's really, really great. And so, but nobody could tell. Like, oh, I was just nicer, I was easier to laugh. I was more lenient. I still disciplined them. I still did the whole thing. And I started thinking about it and I was like, that's the guy I want around my kids. That's the version of me I want around them. And so that's where I started realizing that the dosage is a big issue because here's the deal. If at 10 milligrams, you get all this great suppression of the amygdala, you can relax, you can shift into that parasympathetic state, you can be chill, but you're still 100% control of your faculties. It's like having one shot of vodka. Like you're not drunk, but you might even feel it, but you've had one. So that's at 10 milligrams. And so your anxiety is gone, everything's great. The problem is when you smoke a joint, you get 200 milligrams. And so you don't know that the small amount does all these great things because you've taken so much dose in that you're just dumbfounded and you're just kind of sitting there staring at the wall, which, you know, if that's what you wanna do for fun, That's cool. It's better for you than alcohol. It's better for you in pills. So it's probably the safest way to go. But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about using cannabis from a standpoint of blocking the pain or reducing anxiety or just helping you to relax and calm down. So that's where we get the CBD, the low THC stuff. That's where a lot of that stuff comes in. And we're finding giant benefits for cannabis used in dosing properly in all sorts of aspects of medicine and all sorts of life and stuff like that. So it's a, it is one of those things where if you dose it right, it can be really beneficial to life. Yeah.

And what I'm hearing is it, it can actually enhance performance if used correctly.

Well, so it's also vaguely psychedelic. And I, that's, that's one of the things I love the most about it is so, like, like, especially indica, I, I noticed because you Indica is the one that they call in the couch, kind of like, makes you go home. But if you get the right dose in, you can start going into your life and being like, am I the man I want to be? And you can really, really bore in, really dial in and really do a lot of internal self-work that, because you think a little bit differently, you're a little bit more, I don't know, just you can really get kind of deeper in. And that's been super beneficial as well, as we've done more and more research on psychedelics, it's been more and more beneficial all the way around.

So interesting you bring up the psychedelics thing. So, I've got a former client who is very successful in the corporate world, is around 60, just maybe just past 60 years of age, very buttoned up, always in his suit, very well spoken, incredibly well connected. And we were speaking recently just privately and we started chatting and he went, what do you know about psilocybin, James? 'Cause I had someone on the show and we talked about psilocybin mushrooms. So I was telling him and he says, have you done it? I went, no, but I'm definitely really curious. Maybe I should consider it. And I've always been like, oh, no, no, push away from that stuff. It sounds weird, woo-woo, dangerous almost. He says, I've never told anyone else, only my wife knows this, but I've recently did it. And he said it was the most unbelievable experience. I'm too afraid to tell my colleagues 'cause I don't know if they're prepared for that yet. He says, but it helped me deal with so many things that for the last 50 years or 45 years of his life he hadn't dealt with. So can we just shine the light on that before we head towards wrapping up? But psychedelics, let's start with psilocybin mushrooms. They're very well researched. There's lots of benefits. What are some of the benefits to someone who is 40, 50, 60 years of age who has a lifetime of small traumas that have built up, maybe larger traumas, they have stressful work, maybe financial challenges, health challenges. What's the benefits that psychedelics can actually bring? So the easiest way to explain psychedelics.

And there's a whole host of flavor of color and all sorts of awesome stuff with all of them. But the easiest way to explain it is that look at it from a PTSD standpoint, right? So what we have to understand about trauma is that, because I talk to people all the time, they're like, you, work with veterans who got shot at. I've never been shot at. I don't have that type of trauma. And I'm like, It's not the trauma received, it's the trauma that's perceived. So, and the way I explain that is, I don't know if you, your wife, or any of your girlfriends, if you've ever known a woman or a guy who's had a dream where somebody else did something wrong to them in the dream, and they woke up and they were pissed, right? And you're like, sweetheart, you know that didn't happen. They're like, I know it didn't happen, but I still have the emotion. I still have, I've still injured inside. that type of idea. Cause remember when we start working with the mind, you have to let go of all the physical stuff and go, what is going on in the mind? Like if it didn't happen physically, but it happened in the mind, we still have to deal with it, right? So that's a big piece. So when we have this PTSD, think of it this way. The best way to, I can explain it is that that sympathetic nervous system has been turned up to 10 and they broke the knob off. And so you can't turn it back down. So you're always on, you're always buzzing, you're always kind of, ah, from these traumas, these little, like you said, these, like you said, the micro traumas or those traumas you've had. this helps turn the sympathetic nervous system back down. It helps you kind of relax and calm down. And so, like, we'll use ketamine, we'll use a variety of them. Psilocybin is one of the ones we use. And you walk people through it. You, you, we do what's called the set, the setting and the intention. So the setting is somewhere they feel safe, your weighted blankets, you deprive them oftentimes, you know, psilocybin is a little bit different, but oftentimes we'll deprive people of sensory input so they can just be in their head. and then you go through the mindset of what are you trying to do? What are you trying to achieve? Are you trying to release painful memories you've had? Are you trying to allow the universe to come in and talk to you? What's going on? And so what you want to kind of understand about it is that, 'cause people are like, oh, you hallucinate, you see things. The easiest way to explain it is from a psychological standpoint, you have your conscious mind, which is what we're sitting here talking to each other with, You have your unconscious mind, which is, or your subconscious, which drives a lot of who you are without you thinking about it. And then you have young talks about the universal subconscious, which is where we're all actually connected on this larger, bandwidth of communication. And so that's, that's when we talk, people talk about like they, they saw God or they talked to God. That's the level they're talking about there. But what ends up happening is that you're, you can actually start interacting with your unconscious mind. And so what'll happen is that you'll tell somebody, Hey, if you see a big scary bear, remember, you're in your mind, scary bear can't hurt you. Go talk to the scary bear. And say, all right, and so you see it and you go up and you talk to it and tells you this thing and you're like, oh, all right, well, we can deal with all these things. Sometimes when you hallucinate, you'll see things you don't remember, like you didn't remember you had. Like we talked to veterans all the time who, you know, they have this thing and they have this PTSD and they can't remember what's going on. and they go back through a psychedelic experience and they can it sounds terrible and it kind of is, but they relive the experience and they let they kind of get it out. And so when they come out of their psychedelic experience, they remember it and they can deal with it, they can process it and they can get rid of it. And so now that PTSD is calmed way down, like on a daily basis, we see a lot of benefit for ADD, ADHD. There's some neurotropic effects about focus and concentration that are really beneficial. But at the end of the day, We work with people's guts all the time. We do lots of ulcerative colitis, we do lots of celiac and stuff like that. And what I've found is that because of the way the sympathetic parasympathetic system works, is that I can get your gut to function just fine with all sorts of supplementation, but it doesn't work the way it's supposed to because you're stuck in that sympathetic shift. And so we'll use psychedelics to break that psychedelic hold, I'm sorry, that sympathetic hold, so that you can now go back and have your gut start processing things the way it's supposed to. Because again, the most important, out of all the hormones, out of all the stuff, the number one thing that we need to recognize for our health is our mental function, our mental state. So, I always say that's weird because you ask anybody anywhere, there's very few things that us as a human species can agree on. We all agree mental health is important. And, I always ask people, what are you doing for it? And they're like, nothing. Like the one thing we all agree we should be doing, nobody's doing anything for. And so we do a lot of mental work. We do a lot of, you know, hey, look at this situation from this other angle. Like, look at this thing from over here. And like we try to work with, like one of the big things we do is gratitude. Because if I can start, if I can get you to unconsciously be looking for things you're grateful for all day long, now all of a sudden you start seeing all sorts of things that you're happy about, that you're grateful for. And it really, it literally shifts your perspective and shifts how your body is functioning. So the psychedelics kind of help us walk down that road. of I'm going to start working on your mind. And so the psychedelics will help reset that one. I have a phenomenal story personally with ayahuasca, but it's, you know, that's probably, it's one of the top ones. Do some of the psilocybin first and kind of work into ayahuasca.

Yeah, so ayahuasca have a few friends that have done that. And again, very kind of unlikely candidates that you would think they wouldn't go into ayahuasca. You know, the people that are film producers and people are running multibillion dollar companies and A lot of people say, if you go and do the thing, the plant medicine, you'll lose your mind and you'll lose your job. But actually, they've found the opposite to be true. And as I say, I haven't tried any of this yet, but looking back at my life, growing up in Northern Ireland and seeing some things in the troubles that were sitting in my mind, going through thousands of earthquake tremors and then two or three massive earthquakes here in Christchurch, there were certainly some high stress points. And so I just wonder, with what I was experienced with gynecomastia. Could that come from a bit of PTSD and the stress that has driven and perhaps psychedelics at some point in the future when I'm ready to do it, might that actually be a helpful solution?

Yeah, I'll tell you that everybody needs to go through it and do it at some point. I saw one of the women we were working with, she was using ketamine. And when we do this, this isn't at home. This is like we do ketamine. You're in a safe place. We've got ER docs watching you, like, if, oh, your heart rate's up a little bit, we can push back down. Everything's totally safe. It's not at home for fun. And I was talking to her about it, and because she's had some bad divorce and she said financial things, she's had the same thing the rest of us have all had. Like, everybody's had these issues. It's just how, how well do we recognize the damage they're causing? And so she went and does it, and she came out, and I was like, how was it? She was like, it was the greatest thing I've done. She goes, I was in a bubble. All of my problems came up to the bubble, but they couldn't touch me because I'm in a bubble. She says, but I can manipulate the problems. I could work with the problems. I could deal with my problems without them hurting me. She was like, I got a lot done in that hour. And so, there's a lot of people who tell you that doing psychedelics properly is kind of like doing 10 years of therapy in one hour. Because again, you get to deal with the things that are in your head that you normally can't see and touch and deal with, but you get to say, oh, this is a thing. I've been lying to myself, this is a problem. I need to start dealing with it. And then once you know that, you can deal with it in the psychedelic space. Once you recognize that, you can now deal with it in a much better manner outside the psychedelic space and actually.

Clear some of these problems that we have. Dr. Chalmers, had you said that to me five years ago, I would have said, catch yourself on, you're having a laugh. There's no way I'm going near that stuff. But the more I've read, the more, I mean, scientific studies, and I've watched actual friends who I deeply respect go through these journeys with plant medicine. I'm like, There's something to it. So I'm really glad that you've shone the light on it today. And I feel like we need to get you back on here a few more times because there's probably one or two topics we could just spend a couple of hours on specifically. You're just quite incredible at what you do. I want to thank you for the work that you do do. The people that are listening, please go and order the book, the show, in the show notes, we've got a link. Also, go and connect with Dr. Chammers on his socials. We'll put all of them below. He's a leading expert in wellness. And at the end of the day, if we don't want to focus on becoming more sick, we need to focus on how do we become more well. And Dr. Chamerz is the man for that. So with that, I've got one last question for you. I want you to imagine that you fast forward many years into the future. You're highly aware that it's your very last day here on earth. Someone very young that you love dearly. comes into the room and they say, Dr. Chalmers, how do I go about leading my life on purpose? What would you say to them? Well, it's funny because that's why I'm.

Making all the videos. That's why I wake up in the morning. That's why I do the videos. So that, you know, like, these are the things. So when we're looking at leading on purpose, the number one thing you got to do is you have to start learning how to set goals. You've got to figure out where it is I want to go, how, and then, like, I tell people like, I don't know how I'm gonna get there. Like, that's not your job. Your job is to set the goal of where you wanna go and then let it fall in place. Like set a really crazy high goal and then set one a little bit closer to you, like 50 years in the future, then 40 years, 30 years, 20 years, like set these goals out and then just kind of walk into 'em. Because if you live your life on purpose, that's the way to do it. So figure out, like, for marketing, we always build avatars. So you marketing guys, if you know what I'm talking about, you're building an avatar. Do it for yourself. Who's the man you want to be? What's important to you? Is integrity important to you? Loyalty is important to you? What is important to you? Put that in this avatar and then figure out how do I become this guy? That's the way you do it. You plan out who you want to be and then just walk the path. That's the way you do it on purpose.

I love it. Such incredible advice, Dr. Chalmers. And I know that there was someone listening today that needed to hear that. Thank you so much for sharing. Again, keep up the incredible work.

Absolutely, man.

Thanks for having me on. Pleasure. The Lead On Purpose podcast is sponsored by NZ Mortgages. Learn more at nzmortgages.co.nz. Thanks for tuning in to Lead On Purpose. If you find this episode valuable, please share it with one person that you think might benefit from it. And if you're serious about leveling up, please make sure you're subscribed to the.

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