My life in the NHL : Alcohol and Everything in Between with Billy Huard

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Playing the NHL for year after year after year, the odds of making it are slim. There's so many people struggling. Hey, I'm shitting my pants for this game. It was crazy. He's just like, I can't believe it. You wanted to be the hero. You know, you don't have to blow up somebody's candle. Yours isn't going to shine brighter, right? You have to face your fear. It's an anxiety. It's causing you anxiety. There's a lot of millionaires and billionaires that aren't happy. This is probably the first one of the first podcasts that this has ever been shared on. The fans didn't know was.

Welcome to Lead On Purpose. I'm James Laughlin, former seven time world champion musician and now executive coach to global leaders and high performers. In every episode, I bring you an inspiring leader or expert to help you lead your life and business on purpose. Thanks for taking the time to connect today and investing in yourself.

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As a young boy growing up in Canada, Billy Heward's biggest and only dream was to someday play in the NHL, the National Hockey League. Grit and determination eventually brought him to the big leagues, but once there, his role as the enforcer broke him both physically and mentally. Billy's journey from crowd favorite fighter to embittered retired player, then to successful entrepreneur offers an incredible deep dive into the extreme highs and lows of life as a professional athlete. But more than that, his story, which is entitled A Purpose Worth Fighting for, it motivates and encourages readers by giving guidance on how to create a more meaningful life. I'm so excited for you to enjoy today's show. So sit back and welcome Billy Heward.

Billy, a huge welcome to the Lead On Purpose podcast.

I appreciate it man. I'm super excited. It's been a while and we've been back and forth, but we finally connected.

Oh, I'm so excited about this and your brand, your story, your life and the mission that you're on. Just Totally aligns with the Lead On Purpose podcast. A purpose worth fighting for is your new book you've just published that we're going to, we're going to jump in and talk about it, but let's just rewind the clock a bit. So NHL, right? And we've got listeners here from all over the world. But let's talk a little bit about when little Billy was growing up. What was hockey and where did you see yourself as you grew up?

Yeah, that's a great question. So growing up, I grew up in Ontario, a town about 45,000, which is in Niagara Peninsula, right around Niagara Falls, St. Catharines, in that area right across from, from the States, from Buffalo and that as a kid, you know, it's funny because most of us just grew up on a frozen pond. We start at age 4 or 5. And I never had older brothers. I had three older sisters, so they didn't play hockey. So it's not like I had the hand me down. So I had to figure all that out myself. But yeah, I started, I, we actually, I started an outdoor rink in a little town called Pelham, which now it's a huge, huge community. But yeah, I started on the outdoor pond. You know, our feet freezing, soaking them in the water. Afterwards, my dad bring. My mom and dad bringing me, and my dad said essentially when I took the ice, I could, I could skate right away. It was crazy. He's just like, I can't believe it. So, yeah, yeah. And of course, you know, being Canadian and growing up in Canada and, And you know, my dad was French Canadian, so we were all Montreal Canadian fans. As soon, as soon, as soon as soon as we hit the ground running, we were all Habs. Habs fans. So, yeah, it was amazing. It was, it really was. It was what you do when you're, when you're, when you're a boy in Canada, growing up back in the 70s, you wanted to play hockey, I bet.

And when you were a boy and you were starting to get used to it and you got the skill sets and you were watching all these heroes and idols, you know, know, who did you see yourself becoming? What was your dream?

So I think like everybody else, you want to be. You want to be. You want to be that guy scores a Stanley cup winner. You know, back then it was Montreal Canadiens that were winning Stanley Cups. It was, you know, it was Gila Fleur you wanted for your defenseman, you wanted to be Larry Robinson or you want to be a forward, you wanted to be Bob Gainey, who ended up actually being one of my general managers. But, yeah, you want. You just wanted to be. You wanted to be. You wanted to be the hero, you know, and every time we took the ice, you know, all us young kids, everybody was trying to score that winning goal, and. And everybody wanted to be that team. And we'd all have our jerseys on. Whether you were the Toronto Maple Leafs or the Montreal Canadiens, Boston Bruins, Philadelphia Flyers, it didn't matter. So we all kind of gravitated towards who our fathers liked. And it wasn't all Montreal. Where I grew up, it was mostly Leaf fans. So there's a bitter, bitter rivalry between Leaf fans and Canadians. Montreal Canadiens, so. But yeah, my dream is really to someday play in the NHL and score that winning goal in the Stanley Cup.

That's epic. And there must be, you know, thousands, hundreds of thousands of young Canadian boys that still have that dream. But let's face it, a very, very small amount, very small percentage will ever make it to that level. There's so many hoops and obstacles and challenges physically, mentally, financially. I'm sure, too. So how did your journey start to unfold? What were your steps into teenagehood and beyond?

Yeah, so you're right. I mean, the odds of making it are. Are slim, but at least there's odds of making it right. And that's how I always looked at it. So in Canada, really, you wanted to. Back then, there weren't as many college kids, so I. I grew up. I was kind of one of the better hockey players. Then I went through a gross spurt, and I missed a couple draft years in my junior year, so I actually was a free agent. Walk on. So I kind of took the long road to make it, but it was always my dream, and my father was my best friend, and he. We'd write letters together, and I. It's all in the book. You know, we talk about the letters and, you know, the one year we wrote, I want to say, 16, 18 letters, and only one came back with an invite that says, sure you can. And that was a Peterborough Pete's. And by the. By the middle of the summer when those letters were coming, the mailbox to the mailbox. I think the mailman felt so bad for me, I'd run down, open it. And I'll never forget when I opened it, I'm like, dad, we got to try out, you know, just so that. That I had to overcome a lot of adversity. And I went through a growth spurt where I was a really good hockey player. Then my. Then my legs had to catch up to my hands for a couple years. So I had some serious setbacks at a crucial time in hockey and that's why I missed my draft and that's why I missed the NHL draft as well. But.

But I never, you know, I never gave up. It was one of those dreams that me and my father had, and my father wasn't vicariously living through me. It was just a dream that I, I think God wired me for. It was just one of those things that, hey, you can do. My dad always said, you can do anything. My dad never criticized me. Whenever I made bad plays, he'd say, hey, Billy, how'd you play? Do you think you could do this or you think you could have done that? And that's how I coach my sons now as well. So, yeah, just really a lot of overcoming.

Different obstacles. And it's not just physically, it's mentally because when you see your friends move off and then you move away from your girlfriend, there's a lot of sacrifice in hockey. And it's good and bad. The good news is a lot of guys kind of take themselves out of the picture just because they can't manage it. And the guys that just can hang in there and, and wait for their break, it usually comes. So.

And that to me, again, you're in the rare air in terms of high performance mindset when you can hang in there. And some people say, oh, it just sounds easy. Just hang around till your opportunity comes. But no, you are, you missed out on the draft. For most people, that would be it. Throwing the sticks. I'm going down to the pub and that was the end of my potential career. You didn't choose that option. So what was in your wiring? What was maybe in your heart that you thought, no, I'm going to keep going, I'm going to keep fighting.

It's, you know, I'll tell you a story. You know, we were, the draft was in, in Detroit at the time, I believe it was 87. And me and my dad went there and we weren't sure. I had an, I had an agent and I wasn't sure if, if I was, if we were going to get drafted. Probably not. But you weren't sure back then. Everybody, there were 12 rounds. It's not like it is now, where there's a few rounds on few rounds one day and there's only seven rounds now. And I'll never forget we were there and all my buddies, Luke Richardson and all the first rounders were getting drafted and me and my dad Were in the bleachers. And one hour goes, two hour goals, three hour goals. And I think around the fourth hour, I got up and I walked down to the draft table, and I had my suit on. They announced the draft pick, and I walked on the floor, and a lot of them thought I was a draft pick, but I wasn't. I kind of snuck through security, and I went over to a table with. With the hall of Fame great. Phil Esposito was the general manager of the New York Rangers. And I had a run in with him before at a hockey camp. And I said, phil, I said, billy Hewitt, do you remember me? And he didn't, but he said. He said, yeah, I remember you. I said, look, we've been. Me and my dad been here for about four hours. I said, I believe you. You mentioned something. You were going to offer me a tryout or something with the Rangers, but I would love. I'm here for that tryout. And he looked at me, and all the scouts were at the table looking around, and they're like, who is this guy? And Espo said. Espo said, you got it. I'll honor that. And I went up. I left the draft floor, went upstairs. My dad's looking down at me, and he's kind of giving me, like, what. What did you do? I said, we got what we came for. Let's go home and see Mom. And that was. But to. To get to that point, you really have to truly want it. Like, you really have to, you know, when you live and breathe it. And there is, you know, there. When I. In the summers, I'd worked for my daddy at a heating and air conditioning company, so I would cut gas pipe and boilers and do all the grunt work, you know, for the. For the tradesmen in the winter and even in the summer. And I always thought, this isn't. I could always do this. My dad would always say, you can always come work here, chase your dream. Like, go for it. You got. My dad always believed in me. He says, you got what it takes. You just got to, you know, you just got to chase your dream. And. And he says, of course there's going to be setbacks. He says, but every setback is a setup for a comeback. You know, he's like, you can do this. And. And that's essentially what we did. And it went all the way until it didn't. And we'll talk about that a little on the podcast.

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Yeah, well, thank you. And honestly, when I keep bringing it back to this, it's a purpose worth fighting for. So just for a second, when you talk about purpose, what do you mean by that?

I think for me a purpose is someone that. Someone that's content, someone that doesn't live with envy, someone that's. That gets up every day and is. Is liberated from pain or agony or the past. That haunting thorn, something that's bothering them. A relationship. Maybe a father, son relationship. To me, a purpose is about helping others, you know, and that's the way I. That's what I kept thinking about when I came up with the title, like, and then got in with my faith. God created everybody for a purpose. And later on in hockey, I thought being in the NHL hockey player was my purpose. I didn't know. And then when I came to faith, I was like, oh no, there's a way bigger picture to this. And that's where I understood what my True purpose was. And. And that's why I wrote the book. I wanted to help others because there's so many people struggling and you don't have to, you know, to be a Christian or you can have other beliefs. It doesn't matter. Everybody's wired for something. And there's. If there's anxiety or stress or something holding you back from being all you can be, then that's. That's really a reflection of a. Of a sad life. And for a long time, I late. I lived that life because. Because of the role I ended up playing in the NHL. But to me, a purpose is someone that gets up every day, that's content, and everybody's created. Created, you know, differently for a reason. You know, there's no reason to be envious of others. You know, you don't have to blow somebody's candle. Yours isn't going to shine brighter. Right? And. And that's kind of the direction I went with the book. I thought, you know, everybody has a purpose worth fighting for, but so many people don't want to fight for it. They just want to. They want to give into that habit. They want to give into something like that. For me, I. It was alcohol after a while with the stress that we'll talk about later in the podcast, but you just get caught in that funk, but you don't have to. It's all between your ears. And there's steps of getting away from that and getting out of that, but first you have to recognize that 100%.

Thank you for sharing that billion. There'll be someone listening right now. That person that's going, you know what? I do have an anxiety or I do have a fear or I am not living my life congruent with what I'm dreaming of my life being. So this is really for them. And you mentioned something called the. The Haunting Thorn. Tell me more about that.

Yeah, you know, I thought of a. I needed one line. I was thinking of one line. What if I ran into somebody, which I do often. If I ran into somebody and they were. And I could see that there was, you know, they were depressed or they were serious anxiety. You know, if there was one thing I could say to them, if they. If we were leaving and they were getting on a plane and I had to say something, I. I would say, you know, what. What's that one haunting Thorn? What is that one thing that's bothering you? You got one foot in. You're doing so great in life. You got everything going, but, you know, in your mind, so Your closest friends. There's that one thing that's holding you back from being all you can be. You have to face that one thing. You. It's a challenge. You have to face your fear. It's an anxiety. It's causing you anxiety. I don't know what's going on in your life, but it's caught. But you know. You know, and your closest friends know, and people know. It's. It's not like the white elephant. Everybody knows, but you have to take initiative. So to me, that haunting thorn is that. And. And. And until you deal with it, you're going to always have it, and it's going to be, you know, and then you. And then the problem with that is it's almost like collateral damage, because hurt people hurt people. And if you're going through that, you're. You know, your family's going through that, your friends are going. It's not just you. So when you can conquer that, then it's a reflection for everybody else as well. There's an easiness. You're not. Nobody's walking on eggshells. There's like, oh, my God, I can't believe he did it. And it's never too late, you know? So that. To me, that one haunting thorn is that. That's. That's the line I use if I'm talking to somebody, because there's. We all go through anxieties. There's always anxieties and different levels of stress every day. We're normal. That's life, you know, and there is envy, and people want this, and people want that, and. And it's hard to be content because the world doesn't want you to be. Everything in the world's telling this, look this way, do this, talk like that, watch this. But in all reality, if you can re. If you can. If you can deal with that anxiety or that one thorn deliberation or that one dependence, maybe it's alcohol, drugs, I don't know. But when you do remove it, your life changes. It's unbelievable.

I'm so excited to go deeper with this. This is. This is incredible. Now, for a moment, for myself and for the listener that's listening right now. Take us onto the ice. Who was Billy on the ice? What did the world look like when you were on the ice and you had that stick in your hand?

Yeah, it's. It's a great question. It was exciting at first. It really was. I mean, it was exciting overall. But it depends. You know, hockey, you have roles, you know, like rugby and and all these other sports, football, you have different roles and everybody plays a role. And as we know, in hockey, fighting is a role. For a long time, that was a big role in hockey. Intimidation played a huge factor in hockey for 20, 30 years, maybe longer. And it's all fun and games until you're the guy that's that enforcer, we call him the enforcer, the tough guy. You know, your dream, your dream of, of playing in the NHL, like you said earlier, and scoring that goal when you realize, you know, it's the best league in the world. So we have goal scorers. If you're not a true, true goal scorer, we have players from Russia, Sweden, Finland, you know, and if you're just like, I was a big guy then, even though you could score goals at another level, lower, that's not your role when you get to the NHL. So my dad prepared me for everything, going to the NHL. One thing he couldn't prepare me for was having to become somebody I wasn't, to live out my dream, which was to be a fighter, to be an enforcer, to set the tone of the game. And it's a role I signed up for. You know, it was one of those roles, but that didn't help me mentally at all. It was a struggle. And, and you go through. And going back to that one haunting thorn, the anxiety leading up to the fight. So on the ice, here's, here's, here's, Here's a game. Here's. Let me give you a game day so all your, all your listeners know about an nh. This is when I play. It may have changed a little bit.

So you have. Your schedule comes out in the year. You know who your tough guys are on each team. Let's say we fly into St. Louis. We fly into St. Louis. We, we know there's. They got some tough guys, so that's going to be my job. The other guys are goal scorers. You know, they have to worry about putting the nut, the puck in the net. So we'd fly into St. Louis the night before, we go out for a nice team meal. The next day we get to the rink, we'd have our morning skate. We'd see their team out there skating around. And we guys were always infatuated with the tough guys. They'd always see who's the tough guy, who are they dressing? Because intimidation is huge. You got 18,000 people plus tough guys. And then I would see who was playing, see who was. Because they would have their morning skate, then they would go off. Then we would have our morning skate, then we'd go back and I didn't sleep good that night because that's not my makeup. I wasn't created to be this player. So then we'd go back, we'd get our afternoon sleep, our pregame meal, and then we get to the game. So as a fighter, so the game would start. And as a fighter, your job is to change momentum of a game. So if your team goes down two goals, you're out there stirring the pot, you're out there sticking guys cross check and you want to get the momentum back. Now if you're up a few goals, they're tough guys coming out. So tough guys, and not a lot of people know this, this is probably the first one of the first podcasts that this has ever been shared on. Tough guys want the game to kind of remain even. They don't want to have to go out there and go to battle. Half the guys are fighting. They know they drank beer with them in the pub, you know what I mean? Like, or they played on the same team, but they know it's role. That's why often you see guys fight and they're kind of laughing after or, or they're kind of giving each other a pat because it is part of the sport. But that doesn't stop the anxiety. So you go out there. So let's say we were out there and I was playing with Dallas. We'd get up a goal, okay, no problem. We'd get up two goals, okay, well, we're okay. And then bang, we'd let. And then we'd score another one. Now it's three nothing. Now I'm like, now the fans are starting to chant. The opposing fans are starting to chant. So I go out there. Now their tough guy comes out there. And a lot of times hockey changed. For a long time, tough guys could actually play hockey. It was part of the game. Everybody took care of their own battle. Like James. Even you would fight if you had to. But that shifted to where just fires. Just tough guys ended up being fighters. So I was a good hockey player, but I shifted as well. I had no choice. People were coming after me as well. So then their tough guy would come out and then of course it's on. The puck would drop, gloves would boom, boom. We'd go at it. Good fight, good fight. Then it was over. I'm re. I'm relieved. He's relieved. Sometimes the game, if he really beat me bad, which didn't happen a whole lot, then the momentum of the game would switch a little bit, but it was more pleasing for the fans. What the fans didn't know, but the fans didn't know was the two scaredest guys on the ice were the fighters. The two skaters, guys in the rink were the fighters. Those guys have been thinking of that fight. And if those guys fought earlier, months earlier, before, or weeks earlier, months earlier, they've been thinking about it. They've been thinking about it for the summer sometimes, because we're not UFC guys, and there's no disrespect to UFC or those other fighters, but that's a different sport. That's a whole different role, and that's a team sport, and they're driven to do that, and that's what they grew up wanting to do, and they trained for that, which is a great sport. I watch it. But it wasn't what we were trained for. It wasn't what we were going for. We were hockey players. So it. It took its toll over the years, you know, on me. It took its toll. It took its toll on a lot of guys. After a while, you become numb to it. You become numb to it, and then once your inside gets hard, then you just want to crush guys. Then, then. Now I'm offended, James. You coming after me? Are you kidding me? You're going to try and fight me, you know, and that's where your mindset goes. So collateral damage, what happens then? Do you think you're just going to go in a fight in front of 18,000 people, and then you're just going to go to your hotel room and go to sleep? It's like, nothing. Do you think you're just going to go home and fly back on a charter flight and tuck your kids in bed like it's nothing and read them a story? It's more than that because it affects your brain and. And you're always afraid of getting really hurt. Your hands take a mess. You know, when I played, what we did was we would just go drink a bunch of beer. I mean, everybody does that. But the fighters, we'd always wanted to be part of the team because there were certain games when we would step in and fight, and there are other games. They wouldn't even dress you, so it's kind of like a roller coaster. So mentally, you have to prepare for that, you know, so. And it's not easy, because what gets hurt the most? Your pride. Right? Your pride gets hurt because one day you're the hero, and next day you're the zero. You're not even in the lineup. Coach comes in after warm up and says, hey, Huey, thanks for, you know, you're not playing tonight. And you're just like, well, no, they don't have. A tough guy can play tonight. I can actually score some goals now. We're going to put so and so and so. That was the battle for me for 12 years, seven in the NHL. And it got worse and, but it was, it was the sport. And like I said earlier, I'm not blaming the NHL. It is. That's what was the role. That's what the demand was and that's what the role was. And that's what teams would literally build. They would build their teams around that. So, and, and, and good on them. That's what they want to do. But there has been a lot of guys and, you know, there's been a lot of guys that have paid the price for that.

What's the ultimate price? If you look at it and you want to share that and with the listener, you know, if you do go into battle and you are fighting, whether it's in the rink or it's commercially, if you're running a business or at home, what's the, what's the risk and what, what's the, the consequence of doing that constantly for your mind, for your relationships, your health?

Well, for me, it was anxiety and depression right away. I mean it, because once you, once you have to become somebody you're not, it's kind of like, you know, people that are, you know, it's kind of. I, I compare it to, let's say that executive. He's on the 42nd floor in New York or London or wherever he's at, he's made, he made it. But in doing so, he stepped, he stepped over and stepped on a lot of people. He doesn't know his daughter's favorite color. He's on his fourth marriage. He's, he's, he's a, he's a heavy drinker. He's not in great shape. His mind, you know, he's done what he had to do to make it, but at all, you know, at all costs. He's that guy that went to an Ivy League school, you know, got that amazing education and is the most unfulfilled person in the worst in the world because let's face it, you know, success, success doesn't mean you're fulfilled, right? It's, it's like you can be. There's a lot of successful people out there that aren't happy. There's a lot. Just look around. There's A lot of millionaires and billionaires that aren't happy. And it's unfortunate, but I think part of it is understanding, you know, getting back to really who you are. You know, for me, I was that little guy that grew up with three older sisters, middle class, you know, But I became somebody I wasn't. But in order to do my job, I had to. There's no way, you know, there's no way I could have just been easy going, going on the ice. I had to mentally prepare. Now, don't forget, I wasn't fighting for me. I was fighting for my team. Tough guys don't think to each other we were. We would have to build ourselves up for that fight, you know, the ephedrine and things like that. So in the, in the real world, it's the same. It's, it's. There's a lot of people out there that are doing something they don't enjoy. They're not living their purpose. They're caught. They're maybe at a job where they're making so much money. They're kind of stuck in that now because if they don't, if they quit their job, they won't be able to afford the lifestyle that they've created on their climb up. So, you know, for those folks, it's like, what is that one haunting thorn? Like, you know, and that's why you see a lot of people just walk away and you're like, why would they do that? It's because they have no purpose. There's no. They don't feel it inside. It's not fulfillment. They hate what they do. They get up every morning and, and, you know, sun. They can't stand Sundays because Monday's around the corner and they hate Monday. You know, I heard a story of, of a couple in Hawaii. There were a couple couples, and I wrote about it in my blog, and there were a couple couples, you know, at the bar and they were having a few drinks and there was this young lady at the end of the bar and she was typing or typing away, and they're just like, looked at each other like, what a shame. You know, what a shame. Look at that girl, you know, on her vacation, she has to type away and, and do her work. And she was looking at them going, wow, what a shame. One week out of the year they get a vacation. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, totally. It's how your life, right? It's how you live your life. And I think with since COVID a lot of people figured that out they figured out health, first of all, health, first and foremost. And then the freedom, the freedom maybe to change. It's allowed them the freedom to change. They had to change because they weren't in the setting that they were typically, typically used to. So to me, I think first and foremost is to, is to have gratitude and to wake up every day. You don't have, I mean there's always going to be ups and downs, but you definitely have to be focused, you know, focused and you have to be. To me, it's gone God centered. You have to put other gratitude. You have to be very thankful for, for what you have, you know, you have to be thankful for those who've supported you. So in hockey it was hard because when you're the tough guy and you're going through, when you're going through that, you don't have anybody to go to. It's not like it is today. So you didn't, what am I going to say? Hey guys, I'm scared, You know, hey, I'm my pants for this game. I, you know, I don't, you know, you don't want to share that or. I mean, I remember when I sat out in Anaheim, I was almost crying to myself because I was just crushed. Because you build yourself up for the game because you think you're gonna play and you think you're gonna fight and you're build up and you're on ephedrine and you're on coffee and you're, you took warm up and you're ready to go and you got the Vaseline on your gum. The coach comes in and taps you and says you're not in tonight. You know what I mean? You wasted a whole day. Not your whole day was wasted. Not sleeping. That's why I didn't like coaches that would wait. I'd rather have a coach tell me in the morning than I could work out, I could run. I wouldn't have that anxiety all day where a lot of times they didn't, you know, I mean, but that's just, that was the, that was the way the game was. You know. My first NHL game, Listen to this. I played five years in the minors. My first NHL game was the Boston Bruins called me up against Hartford. They had a tough, they had a tough team. So I told my dad and had all the, the local bars and well and were all up and everybody were drinking beers and they were ready to see me. And it was my first, first call up after all those years. So I got to the. I was fired up, got on the ice, took warm up. The Hartford guys are skating around. They know who I am because I fought a lot of them. And the Miners are like, holy, Huey's got called up to the NHL. You know, it's gonna. It's game on. And.

And I took the ice and warm up. And the games are about to start. National anthem, There's a face off, Puck goes down, puck goes to the far end. There's a whistle. The referee goes down. And our general manager at the time goes over to the glass and he talks to the referee. And then the referee comes over to the bench, the bench. He talks to the coach. And just before that, Brian Sutters, the coach said, hughie, you're up next. So my first NHL shift, you know, so excited. And. Because after all the. All these other years, I'm watching all these drafted players play ahead, even though I was better than them, playing the NHL for year after year after year, I'm watching these guys on tv and I'm still slugging out on bus drives and the minors. And the coach comes over and I'm just about to go on. If you did once, if you take one, if you step one foot on the ice and that's your one NHL game that's register as playing in the NHL. But just about to go on, and I got a shoulder, and Brian Sutter, coach goes, billy, you can't go on. I'm like, what do you mean I can't go on? They go, they didn't put you through waivers. You're gonna have to sit down. So I'm just like, oh, my God, my dad's watching. Everybody's watching, all my family. I'm so proud. Now I'm feeling embarrassed, which I shouldn't be. It's my first NHL game. So I go to sit down. He goes, no, you're have to leave the bench. I'm like, what do you mean I have to leave the bench? He goes, yeah, you have to get off the ice. You can't be part of it. So I'll never forget that James skating across that ring, leaving that ice and thinking, what if I never come back? What if I get hurt in the minors? So I went through. I held back my tears. I got undressed. Back then, there were no cell phones. There was a payphone. I went to a payphone. I called my dad. My dad's like, where the hell are you? You know, And I'm like, you're not going to believe this. And my dad being my dad, said, hey, man, this too shall pass. You just hang in there. Good things will happen. So the game ended. So Brian Sutter, the coach, came over. I don't know if we won or lost. I forget. I was in a daze and. And he said to me, I said, brian, you know, he goes, man, I'm so sorry, Huey. I'm so sorry this, this happened. He goes. I go, so that's okay. I said, we're playing in Philadelphia. I'll play the next game. Goes, now we got to send you back to the Miners. So I'll never forget their team bus going out like this. And they put me in a town car going back to the Miners. It was all in the papers. You can see it on my website. I threw it up there. You know, all the articles, how close I came. I did get, obviously, get called up a couple weeks later, played a few games, and then the next year, expansion, and I went on to play in the NHL. So that's just a little bit about the highs and the lows of. And. And everybody goes through this in sports. I'm not. This is just my story. There's a million stories. I don't know how many guys went through that, though.

Yeah, that's pretty extreme. And that, to me, represents life and the ups and downs and the roller coaster of life. Now, for a moment, I'd love to.

Just hone in on your dad.

You've mentioned him a couple of times. He sounds like a great dad. He sounds like a great mentor. He's got perspective, he's got longer term, you know, long game thinking. So tell me, what role has your dad played in your life?

Yeah, I'm glad you pointed that out. Yeah, I mean, I lost my dad in 2015. He was my best friend. He was. He was my buddy. He was the guy that did it. We did it together. I did it for me. I did it for him, too. But it was. I did it for me. He was always there, you know, this two show pass was his favorite line, you know, My dad was a, you know, was a horse bug. Race horses and pool. He's a pool shark. And he was a businessman, you know, And I learned most of my lessons at the racetrack, you know, or at the pool hall, you know, he plays snooker. Like, hey, it's not what you make, it's what you leave, you know, or you talk about a horse, you know, the size of. It's a size. Not the size of the horse, it's the size of the fighting horse, you know, and things like that. And he'd say, you Know, horses know. They know when they're going, when they're dropping down in class. All those. All those horses know when they're looking at them that they're a lower class. And that's kind of. He taught me so many lessons in. Around those kind of that CD area where a lot of people don't hang out. But I was there because dad brought me everywhere. He was handicapped. He. He had polio, so he was. Couldn't skate. We couldn't do the father and son game and things like that. And, you know, as a kid, you're a little embarrassed because your dad's got a limp, and it's. It's just natural.

But he was my biggest fan, and he had some heart conditions, and he sold his business. When I. When I went to Peterborough and I made it, he retired. He sold his company, heating and air conditioning company. And he followed me. And. And back then, no cell phones. My. My. My buddies would say, huey. I'd be like, what? They'd be like, because he was a big man. He's 6, 4, 6, 4. They'd be like, big Jack's here. I'm like, what do you mean he's here? I'd be like, he'd just show up at a game, oh, my God, dad, what are you doing here? You know, and he. And then. And then in the afternoon of that game, he'd go play the sports book, he'd bet the ponies online. You know, I don't know if you have OTB over there, over, you know, and he'd always meet friends, never met a stranger, Great salesman.

And just truly believed in me. Like, I feel so bad when I hear stories and I. And I don't take this, you know, I'm very, very thankful that I had the data, because I know there's a lot of people that didn't have. Have that father figure. And I know how important a relationship between a father and a son is, how instrumental that is and how that son develops. I mean, let's face it, our brains aren't fully developed, and we're 26, right? And that. That relationship and having father that stands behind you and gives you confidence and puts you ahead of everything else is amazing. My dad wasn't the perfect dad when he was young. I had three older sisters, so those same. Those same lessons that he taught me at those places, he hung out at a lot of those places when he shouldn't have been. So he. He grew up when I came, when he had his boy. It's almost like my mom said he started to grow up when he had you. And then we were off to your races. I. Or to. To the hockey rink and stuff. We took him away from that environment, you know, because he's. Now he's your dad. He's doing hockey tournaments and things. But, yeah, my dad, right up to the end, when he was my dad, felt bad because what I went through in the mental and PTSD and things like that, and one thing he said to me on his dying bed was, hey, just take care of yourself. He goes, it's a shame what you went through. And I said, dad, it's. It's all good. I'm good with it now because I fought it for so many years. That's why I didn't come out with this book 20 years ago. It's like a fine wine. I had a lot of hate in my heart. And then I figured it out, you know, I read a book called the Evangelist. It was a. It was about Billy Graham. I read a book and I read another book, a couple other books like that. And I realized that there's so much more to life than just me and that my stage was hockey. And I didn't utilize it like I. Like I wanted to or like I should have when I played the sport, but I'm damn good. I'm going to make sure now that I utilize why God made me a hockey player. And I told my dad that, and he was thankful. You know, I mean, let's face it. All you want for your kids is you want peace, right? You want them. We always want that. And we want them to be better than we were.

We.

We wanted. You know what I mean? So. And that was my dad. My mom was always. My mom was a firecracker. She was a heck of an athlete, fastball player, worked for Bell Canada as an operator all those years. My mom's still around 85 years old, still walks three or four miles every few days and things like that. And they tagged along together. But my dad. Yeah, my. Without my dad, I could have never. I know I never would have made it without his support, 100%.

Now he'll be so proud that, you know, you do talk so passionately about him, and he's imparted so many lessons that now you're imparting with tens and hundreds of thousands of people who are reading your book and listening to you on shows. So it's so exciting. And just before we move forward as well, I just want to remind the listener and if you're watching this, that's great too, but you're probably on your phone or you're on a device. Get that phone, go to Amazon and order the book. Billy's book is out, it's published. A purpose worth fighting for. And don't even go looking for it. I'm going to put it in the show notes for you to make it easy. Click on that link, go and order it. You can get it in any format you want. You get an audio, you can get it as an E book, as a hardback paperback. Just go and order it. And it's an incredible story, but we're going to jump back in and I'd like to talk a little bit, Billy, around this hatred, this anger that built. And before we talk about how you've resolved that and the advice for other people who let things fester and who suffer from anxiety, depression, ptsd, what was it that really compounded? What were a few of the big things that compounded to develop that? The anger that hurt within.

I think I went through, I think I went through a lot of tough times when I retired from the NHL. I didn't have a whole lot. When you retire from a sport or even if you're involved with it, it happens with people that work at a company their whole life. They retire and two years later they're gone. It's a shame, but it's just their purpose was, that's what they did their whole life. They went into that factory or they went to work and it's almost like it's over. And you hear that a lot. And in hockey, it's something different because it's your whole life. It's your center, it's your nucleus. Hockey was right here, everything I've ever known. It wasn't just a sport to me. It was a vessel. It was my life, it's my relationship with my dad. It was everything I've ever gotten, even to this day. At my age now, I went through a lot, you know, I, I went through in business, I lost a business.

I, I, I and I talk about all this in the book. I went through some really hardships. You know, one thing a lot of athletes do is you tend to try and keep, you know, you're used to making whatever, I don't know, 20,000 every two weeks, you know, good money. And that's why a lot of people are like, oh, what do they have to bitch about? Or what do they have to gripe about? And they do have a good point. It is. But we've really kind of been like, in the military. We've been outside of the real world. We haven't, I haven't been a part of the real world. Everybody at my age, when I, at 32 or 33, they've had jobs for 10 years, they've been in the real world. We're not in the real world. We're in a, we're in a fake world. We're on charter airplanes. We're getting, you know, it's, it's, you know, our cars are being started for us. We're telling agenda, here's what time you get up. Here's this, this, this is every day, every day you're doing that. And when that goes away, it's hard because it's like it's been ripped out of you. Now for a lot of players, there's only, there's only so many jobs in hockey. So you know, scouting, coaching, GM and they don't give those jobs up. So it's not like, well, I'm just going to get a job in hockey. I, I actually did talk to one team and about getting a scouting job and this is, but this is where pride comes in and they're like, well, we can't pay you first year. You know, you will pay your expenses but once you understand the sport, then we'll pay you well. And you know, being prideful, you're like, well no, you're not going to pay me, I'm not going to take the job. So what do you do? You don't work and you blow 100,000 anyways, right? So there's, there's, for some folks out there, sometimes it's better off just take the job. And if you can afford to take the job and learn, learn what you can. And that's my advice now to guys that retire. I'm like, look, if you're really anxious about getting a job because you don't want to invest in something to create a position for your, yourself if you don't know what you're getting into. So if you're really passionate about something and if there's listeners out there that are passionate about something, especially athletes, if you're retiring, I highly encourage you, do not invest a dime. Go work within the industry that you're excited about because sometimes that industry that you're so excited about isn't the same industry when you're day to day in it. It's not, it's not that industry that, you know, it's not that whatever that it was more a hobby or something that you thought you'd like where you necessarily don't like it when it becomes a business. And it'll save you a lot of. So my, My advice to people is get a job within the industry that you like. Learn everything about it. Learn everything about the competitors. Learn the business side of it. Then if you're in, then after a year or two of being in the business, then you can invest. Maybe you want to start, get a percentage or, or start your own little company, but at least you know something about it. You know, it's just a quick. It's just a short little, short little insight, but it's. It'll save you hundreds of thousands because most, that most athletes just invest hundreds of thousands, if not millions because of this or because of that. And a lot of venture capitalists, especially where I live here in California, there's a lot of people will take your money and they're like, well, no, you can be the VP of sales. First of all, you, You've never sold anything in your life. You know, like it's. Secondly, I went to the school of hard knocks. I went to. I went and worked for Oakley, which was Oakley sunglasses and visors. And I, I worked my way up to brand manager. That's how I did it. But not. But first I invested in a company that I knew nothing about and it cost me a lot of money. So I went through a lot of hardships financially. I went through a divorce, which was painful as well. I was not the same person. Hockey spit out a different person than person that, that entered the sport, that's for sure.

And I. What got me, you know, alcohol got me through the NHL, through the tough times. You know, I wasn't doing pain pills or drugs wrangling does. We were drinking beer, but more than I should have ever drank. And then I leaned on that even after hockey. And then the more depressed and the more anxiety and then with ptsd, it's a depressant. It just got worse and worse and worse and worse.

Course.

And I talked to the book about, you know, where, where I, you know, in the book, you guys will read where it took me, but it didn't take me to a really good place, let's put it that way. And, and if you're listening out there, I do want to say that there's always, there's hope for everybody. And if you're in that place, that to reach out to somebody, you know, because I'm living proof that things do turn around once you, once you, once you seek support, you know, so it took me to that. And then, and then I, and then, like I said, I had an epiphany. And I read a book. I was in my office, my wife kept saying, hey, let's go to church. Let's go to church. And I was dead against church. I grew up a Roman, Roman Catholic. And, and I didn't, you know, I didn't have any relationship with God, but I, but I was a believer, you know, weddings and funerals and, and I read a book one night and I woke my wife up. The next morning was Sunday. I said, we're going to church. She's like, what? I'm like, we're going to church. Usually, usually she, usually she's like, you know, she'll take a half hour to get ready. She was ready in like four minutes. We went to church in a church and we were living in Vegas. There's another place you don't want to live and hit the rock bottom. Oh my God. I had it all lined up. I mean it wasn't good. But I will tell you this. My dad called me and saved me. My dad again saved me. He said again, you know, this too shall pass. And it did, you know, go home, this too shall pass. And, and I had that epiphany. And ever since then, my life, you know, and I'm not saying everything is peach, you know, peachy. You still have your setbacks, you still have your struggles. For me, alcohol is no longer struggle for me. I just put it like that. When I got diagnosed, it had run its course anyways. But.

You change, you have, it's a whole lifestyle change. It's not just changing something. Like when I say, what's that haunting thorn? When you recognize that haunting thorn, that's just the first step, then the rest is life changing. There's a lot of you have to do, but they're all doable. You just baby steps.

And what level of ownership did you take for your contribution, say to divorce? I'll put my hand up and say also, I've been through a divorce. Also, also had challenges with alcohol. I'm happily alcohol free. But I put my hand up and go, you know what? I contributed in so many different ways to these things. I've had business failures, I've had books that I've launched that didn't sell a book. And I go back and I was in denial sometimes during the actual process, like that's somebody else's fault or the publisher didn't do this or they said this. But upon looking back on it getting clear headed, it's like actually I contributed greatly. My mindset, my skillset, my intentions, my lack of purpose. I contributed. So what level of ownership when you look back, do you see that you attributed to say divorce or some, some of your greatest challenges?

I'd say significant lot. Yeah, I mean because yeah like my ex wife was a great per. I changed. It wasn't her, you know what I mean?

And my life with alcohol was me. I don't blame anybody. It was me. I can't blame the sport of hockey, you know what I mean? Like blame games got to end at some point, you know, and I had to end it, you know. And that's why I'm so glad I didn't write the book. You could write the book 20 years ago. I started the book 20 years ago, but I didn't finish the book. I'm so glad because, because I did recognize that a completely different person to people that have hurt over the years, the lifestyles that I've led, you know, all the, all the, you name it and all the sins, all the sins are there, right? But I don't think I, I think everything happens for a reason. I truly believe it. And if I was perfect then I wouldn't be here today. And I don't truly believe I could be a mission driven messenger and help others. So you know, people ask me man, you're so transparent with your life and you know, you played hockey and you grew up. Everybody's going to know everything about you.

And.

And I'm like, yes, so what? How it doesn't matter to me. In 25 years I'm going to be gone anyways. Or 30 years I'm going to be gone anyways. If, if one person picks up this book and goes man, I can do this or you know, or gets a chance to be a father and reads about what my dad, how great he was with me and he never had a father like that. You know, he can relate to my dad. Maybe he doesn't have a dad or he would grew up with a single mom. Then he can see what my dad. That's really what that. So Vegas is where we really hit. Where I hit rock bottom. And it was, you know, and I don't put enough, you know, my wife went through it like my wife is a trooper, you know.

She went through the hard, the hardship with me and she stuck with me, you know. And now we're so happy because we're like best, best friends now. My son plays hockey and we're watching him and we're flying in and out of. You know, he's been playing hockey east and things like that. But I'm transparent because. And my kids see that as well, you know, and they're proud of me, and I'm proud of them. It's. I. I don't. I do believe. And I get. Not everybody's like that, and, And I respect that. My wife's very quiet. You know, she's like, I don't have to say anything. You've kind of told the whole world. But I'm like, I'm doing it so I can help people. And if I can help one or two people or if someone doesn't maybe take their life or somebody is in a role that they, they're like, man, you know, are they going towards something and they have to make a decision, and they're making a decision based on just the money or it takes them away from their family or things like that. I think you really have to think long and hard about that, because I know this, man. It goes so fast. I mean, we all say it, and I'm sure you say the same thing, James. I wish I would have changed 30 years ago, 25 years ago, because I can't imagine. I can't imagine the, like, you know, just like, if you struggled with alcohol, how incredible a morning cup of coffee is now, and how going when everybody else at a trade show or wherever's hungover and you're on the mountain. I mountain bike. Or you're like. And, And I'm not judging everybody. To each their own. I'm just saying that freedom, the freedom that sets your mind. And, And I think I, I, I do a lot of. I do a lot of things. I took a lot of steps. And, like, I learned. I. And I talk about it in my book. I use a lot of mentors that don't even know me. I use Cam. You know, Cam Hayes. I use, like, even Tim McGraw. I read his book and, and.

Different. Different folks, you know, Goggins. Different guys that Ed Mylet. I listen to their podcast, Laird Hamilton, and I see what they do. None of those guys drink for the most part. They all work out. They're hard. They're my age. They're 55, 56. They're all in amazing shape. And I. And, you know, I have a cold tank, a cold tub in the back where that's good for my head. I'm in there, 38 degrees every morning. Doesn't matter how cold it is. It's California, so. So I. It is kind of warm here. But still I do that. I'm in the meditation and I. I listen to podcasts. I'm always learning. I'm trying to. Because I don't know if I. If my PTSD turns into ct. I don't know how much time I have either, you know, because I go through. I go through different spells, so I'm doing all I can do. But it's a lifestyle change, and you know that.

It's.

It's a total lifestyle. It's not like when someone's, zoe, just quit drinking. Boy, look at them. He's in good shape. No, it's a lifestyle change. You have to accept you're a new person. And that's who I had to become. I wish I would have done that when I retired from hockey. Right. But now the NHL has some amazing programs in place, and so does the NFL and everything else. So people retire. They can kind of segue them in, because not everybody retires a millionaire, you know, more so now, obviously. But now they have courses and they segue them in and. And people can learn how to speak, public speak, and get into businesses. I'm on LinkedIn with a lot of companies that are athletes, doing business with athletes. So there's a lot of, you know, it's come a long way in the last 23 years.

It has. And I think that's a global thing, too. So I do the mental skills. I run the mental skills program for our local rugby team, which is Canterbury Rugby. And they're no different than a lot of the other regional rugby teams here in New Zealand, where they've got professional and personal development managers for all of the teams, and they sit down with the players and, okay, what are you studying? What business are you starting to build on the side? What are you going to do post rugby? And they're setting them up for success. How are you budgeting? How are you, you know, managing all of this? Incredible.

No, that is. And that's so good. And they have psychologists and. And even in hockey, if a guy gets hit hard, you know, and concussions and stuff wasn't just fighters. There were hockey guys that got laid out, you know, that are, you know, goal scorers. Like, hockey was ruthless, you know, and, you know, but now, I mean, you get a concussion, you're off the. You know, you're gone. They take you off. There's. There's a. There's a doctor at every game now. So they're. They're conscious of all that stuff. The NHL has done a tremendous job. They haven't been Fighting, which I don't think they ever should ban fighting, it was how they were utilizing it. Because hockey, such a high energy sport, you're going to, it's kind of like if you go into a bar and someone gives you. I'm not saying you're supposed to do it, but if you're defending yourself, you do it. It's just natural. But you didn't go into the bar thinking you were going to do it. You know what I'm saying? And that's, that's the difference. And, and I know now that you know the way I am, if I had to do it all over again and everybody asked this, I would do it all over again. But I would have faith. I would know that there's a bigger reason. And I probably would have been tougher too, because I would have been able to understand my dad, where my dad helped me out my whole life. When it got to the fighting, he couldn't fathom and he's like, why are you doing that? I'm like, dad. And I talk about that in the book A Few Stories and he's, I'm like, dad, I have to do it. He's like, Jesus. So. But had I had a purpose worth fighting for, had I known that was my purpose and there was a bigger purpose, then I don't think I still would have had some anxiety, but I would have known like I do now, doing this podcast or this business or my book, I'm doing it all in faith. I don't know how it's going to go. I'm just trusting in faith that, hey, I'm going to change one person at a time, you know, and, and that's all. That's really, honestly my goal with this is to hopefully people say, man, yeah, he was a hockey player. But more than that, you know, I read his book when I was 21 years old or 35 years old, and it changed my life. It gave me the courage to step up. You know, I love it.

And you said earlier, and I want to just highlight that you're a mission driven messenger and the person listening, you know, I think that really hit, that hits home. And your purpose that you're fighting for is to help others, is to contribute, is to help others avoid maybe some of the pitfalls that you've had to go through, the suffering that you've went through by saying, hey, here's how it happened, here's how I would do it differently. Here's some strategies, techniques, and also stories that can go deep to allow people to actually fight for a purpose that's worthy.

Yeah, Everybody, you know, just everybody's unique. You're, you're created to be you, not anybody else. And we, and we have all this anxiety and all this stress, whatever it is. And instead of just focusing on being a better you every day, you're focused on being somebody that you're not. And just like I see kids and I have, you know, young kids and especially, you know, with the, with the tick tock all. Everybody's trying to be somebody they're not. When you're absolutely perfect. Everybody's created perfect. You know, nobody. There's nobody. There's a, there's not another James out there. Be James. Do what you're doing, Billy. There's not another Billy out there. Use your past. Use what you know, use what you, you've been given and help people. There's, there's nobody else that can tell my story like I can. There's going to be different iterations of it for other hockey guys. And that's what I tell people. And they're like, well, maybe there were fighters that enjoyed the fighting. Awesome. I don't think there's too many, but good for them. And they can write their book and they can talk about it and how it inspired being a fire, inspired being a fighter, inspired them in their life. You know, that's one thing is I don't cast stones here. It's just this is my, my life. I just really, I'm just going to bat. I took the punches. So folks that are reading this book don't have to. They, they can understand that. Man, your purpose is you're great, you're awesome, you're great person. Go out and be that person. Let's, let's step back a little bit and let's, let's see who you're trying to be. And what's that causing you to do? What's that anxiety? What's holding you back? What's that one thorn? Is it maybe someone that you haven't forgiven? You know, 20 years ago, you're still drinking the poison and hoping they get hurt by it. They're, they haven't, they haven't remembered you in 10 years, you know what I'm saying? Because you have a lot of that. I mean, just the stress alone and the regret. You could empty have to half the hospitals in the U.S. if you just took regret away from so many people. You know, they're just, so many folks are just, they just feel so guilty or they're not giving up they just have animosity against somebody that said something years ago, you know, and. Or they're. Or they were put down when they were younger. I wrote a blog about that. You know, on my website, I talk about that is what got you through your anxiety years ago isn't necessarily what need you need now. So what got me through my. My fighting and the stress and anxiety of the drinking isn't what I need now. What got you through when people would make fun of you and you being shortcast and going right back at them and being, you know, and attacking them, that doesn't get you through now in your relationships. It doesn't. It served a purpose for its time and it got you through that. Maybe you weren't in the best shape. Maybe. Maybe people teased you so you were right back at him. You don't need to be that person anymore. It was. It was back then. And that's how I looked at it in hockey. I'm not that person. I'm not that person I used to be. I'm a totally different person, you know, and anybody that's known me, you can tell changing people. When people have been affected and they really realize who they were created to be and they have a purpose worth fighting for, there's change. It's undeniable. People in your life, I will guarantee you, James, everybody, your closest circle, go, man, he is not the guy. He is completely different. He's doing a different this, he's different that. He's different this way. It's. But. And then you look back, being that person, you have regret, and then you're like, no, I don't. For every. Everything happens for a leave. And I have to turn that page, man, and I got to move on and be the new me. And that's what this book's all about.

It's about incredible. And I think the person that needs to hear that right now is the person that, you know, they know that there's a past, and they are not their past unless they choose to live there. And this book sounds like a vehicle that can actually help them move forward into purposeful means and a purposeful life. And, you know, a lot of people listen to the podcast. It's lead on purpose. So a lot of people want to lead others more intentionally, but it starts with self and it's about leading yourself. So I'm excited for the listener to order the book. As I say, I'm going to put the link in the show notes. The book is out now, so go and grab it while it's hot. And also, Billy, just a last question I'd love to ask you. And I'd like us to fast forward into the future. It's your very last day here on earth and someone very young, like maybe a great grandchild, just somebody like six or seven years old, comes up to you and says, billy, I want to lead my life on purpose. What advice would you give them?

The advice I would probably give them is be willing to change, Be willing to alter your life. You know, a lot of people.

Be willing to live out your dream. I'm a huge believer in that. And so many people are like, well, the odds, the odds. If I believed in the odds, I would have never made it. So. But for me, it's really. It's about being able to change. Going down a course that gets altered, Understand when it gets altered, there's a reason for that and recognize it and make your decision. Don't just go to status quo and be and be yourself. Be unique. Be the best all you can. Be like, like I tell my kids, be you. I don't care. You go to college. If you want to go to college, go to college. If you don't want to go to college, don't go to college. Just be you. That would be the advice I'd give anybody. Because when you're you, the world's a better place. We have enough. There's already mean, there's already you, you, be you. That would be the advice that I would give any young, young child for, for whatever they do. And be willing to change, Be willing to accept. Big one for. For other folks is be content. Just be happy. You know, I mean, be, be grateful. You know, I look around, where we're at and where you're at. I mean, two thirds of the world has less than $0.50 change in a jar. We have warm water, we have cold water. We have a roof over our head, we have a bed. I mean, isn't that enough? You know, really, when you think about it. So for those that are down and out and going through a lot of hell right now, just be thankful. Because if you look to the left or you look to the right, I will guarantee you there's somebody worse off than you.

100 such beautiful advice and insights. And I just want to say I've learned so much just by sitting with you, and I'm excited for more conversations in the future. But what I'm most excited about is for the person that reads the book or listens to the book, and it impacts their life and helps them to fight for the purpose that they want in their life. So thank you for the work that you do.

I appreciate James. I really do. Congratulations, first of all, over 400,000, you know, listeners on your podcast and. And growing steadily. Thank you. And I'm honored because I see the guests you have and I'm like, Billy Hewitt, are you kidding me? But it's good. I mean, you know, like I said, I'm your first NHL hockey player. Can only get better from here.

But no, I'm so honored.

I look forward to meeting you and I look forward to meeting you in person and hopefully at one of your events. I'd love to come out and speak and meet some of your, you know, meet some of your listeners and things like that. So I appreciate all the support and I do believe that the book will help a lot of people. Yeah, I agree.

I agree. It's going to be a bestseller and I'm excited for it to spread around the world. So keep up the great work.

Appreciate it. Thanks.

Thanks, Matt.

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