Scotty Sio ON: Team Culture & Handling Pressure

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Scotty Seal played at West Juniors growing up. He attended Trinity Grammar School in Summerhill from 2006 to 2009. He played three years of first 15 rugby in his time there. He then played a year of grid at West Harbour in 2010 and another year at Northern Suburbs in 2011 before joining the Brumbies ahead of the 2012 season. He also made his super rugby debut. His current club team is the Tuggeranong Vikings in Canberra, Australia and he debuted for the Wallabies in 2013. Now for those of you who don't know anything about rugby, the Wallabies are Australia's Rugby union team. They're world class. He's also played over 110 games for the Brumbies and 65 Tests for the Wallabies. He's went to two World Cups for Australia in 2015 and 2019. And he has beaten the British and Irish Lions for the Brumbies in 2013 and won the inaugural Super Rugby Australia competition with the Brumbies.

Hey Scotty, Happy New Year, man. So great to see you. Tell me, what are you most excited about this year?

Hey James, happy New Year to you and your family, first and foremost. Thanks for that. I guess just the new challenges that a year brings. You know, you set goals at the end of every year you review with your family or your close ones and you, you kind of put the plans in place to try and, you know, achieve them this year. So I guess for myself personally heading into my 10th season at the Brumbies now, so, you know, I guess some would say, you know, a true elder statesman of the game. But it's, it's really inspiring for me to see the enthusiasm and you know, how Much passion a lot of the young players have for when they come in. Gives me a lot of drive, reminds me of the journey so far. And it's pretty cool to, you know, maybe be a small part of someone's journey and help them achieve what they want to achieve within the realm of professional rugby. So, yeah, those are all the sort of things I look forward to, I guess, making plans for life after rugby. You know, as all professional athletes know, you know, we have a limited time to make the most of our arena and you know, for rugby, it's not, it's not that long in the scheme of life. So I guess, you know, there's a, I guess a famous quote in rugby that, you know, you want to have something to retire to, not retire from. So the earlier put those plans in place, I think the better off you'll be.

That's amazing. And that's a great lesson for a lot of young athletes out there who are at the start of their career and not thinking about stepping down from the field. It's great for them to hear that from you. Who is starting to think, okay, in the next three to five years, how do you going to be looking at some kind of succession plan for myself, right?

Yeah, 100%. And I think it's, I guess it goes in phases. I think I'm at that point in my career where it's probably a crucial time for me to make the most of that and I make the most of what rugby's given me. Such a big opportunity to network and meet so many different people. You know, the opportunity to meet you in Fiji two years ago, you know, and that was just us planning a trip at the end of the year with some of the rugby boys and, you know, just deciding to do that, you know, help me connect with someone like you. And here we are, you know, a couple years later, still connecting and keeping in touch. You know, I think that's one of the important things, but I think for anyone starting out, I think it's super important to invest yourself in rugby. I think your first couple years.

Put in place the steps that you need to help you sort of achieve what you do want to achieve in rugby. And I guess it's not a bad thing to pour yourself into rugby because it's a time for you to sort of, you know, soak everything in and take as much advice as you can and keep evolving as a player, keep growing each year, and that way you'll be ready for your opportunity. So it's not a bad thing, I think early on in your career to be super invested in rugby. And then, you know, eventually as you, as you sort of figure out what your routine is and what gets you going and what's your inner drive, you know, that's when you can sort of put those plans in place, have that steadfast routine and then you start putting the plans in later in your career when you sort of know that maybe your time's up.

I love that. That's so cool. And yeah, reflect back to when we met and it was kind of synchronicity, you know, we both made plans to go on an experience, a tourism experience there in Fiji. We met on the boat and just right away the one thing that struck about me, about you, was your humility. And I just had no idea who you were. I actually thought you and your buddies were teachers who'd got a summer off spending all this time in Fiji. And then I realized by the looking at the build of you guys, maybe they're not teachers. This is the front row of the wall.

Yeah, it was really cool, you know, true.

No, it was really amazing to connect with you. And you were very heart centered, really down to earth. And then when I got to understand what you did, it's like, wow, you're a real high performer in life. And as I've watched you over the last few years, you're truly connected with your family. It seems to be like family is your foundational pillar. When I look at what you do on social media, it's very heavily rooted in your culture and in your family. So I'd love to talk a bit about your family. So what was your mum and dad's role in helping shape the man that you've become?

Oh, they were, they were everything and they still continue to be to this day.

I guess. You know, when you, when you're younger, I wouldn't say you take it for granted, but you're a little bit ignorant to what unconditional love is. And, and then how, how much your parents truly do love you and how really immensely proud they are of what you do in life. You know, as a young, as a young guy growing up, you know, my, I guess my parents approval on things and what they thought of things meant everything to me.

And so I was constantly trying to impress them, trying to do everything I can, I could to tick all the boxes, you know. And what I later learned in life was it was kind of their way of pushing me to, out of my, you know, comfort zone, you know, trying to create a higher ceiling. Some would Say as you go. My dad's quite a smart man, very meticulous in his preparation in a lot of things.

He's a big forward thinker. And, you know, my mother, as most mothers are, quite caring, you know, always there for you, always shoulder to cry on. But, you know, they had the ability to adjust and sort of go either way as well both times, so, you know, they could catch you off guard both ways that way too, coming up. So I think one of the big life lessons I learned growing up was that, you know, rugby was kind of everything. It was just, you know, I was kind of in that mode at school where I was like, rugby, rugby, it's all about rugby. I'm going to be a rugby union player, blah, blah, blah, which is good, you know, and you want to have that goal, you know, that you want to achieve, but you've got to understand.

You know, the stepping stones you need to take to get there. You also got to understand that I was a bit naive, I guess. You know, I just kind of thought I was always going to be a rugby player. There was no plan B. But you got to be ready for the fact that there are a lot of things that can get in the way of you achieving that dream as well. My father understood that through his experiences in life. Both were born in Samoa, grew up in Samoa during the 70s, 80s, 60s, very tough times back then. Finished their schooling in New Zealand, met in New Zealand, got married in Australia.

There in 89. So they've been together over 30 years now and managed to raise the four of us.

So, yeah, I think, you know, one of the things as I was alluding to back before with life lessons was my dad said that, you know, you're a student athlete, student comes first. And he never likes to talk about it. But in year 11, I broke my hand heading into my second first 15 season. And, you know, I didn't really take the rehab seriously. I mean, I didn't really know that much, you know, about it. So I kind of just thought I was just going to take the momentum from year 10 and just continue it on in year 11. And it wasn't quite the season, you know, I hoped for it to be started off really slow and my dad's, I guess my studies were affected by that because I take my mood from training and games into school there as well. So, yeah, I think my dad never likes to talk about it, but one day he said to the school, you know, unless he improves his grades, I'm taking him out of the first 15 team and I was there on a full scholarship.

And, you know, I don't think it was his decision to make, but, you know, when you live under his roof and his rules, both their rules actually, dad and mum and he just didn't drive me to a first 15 game one day and, you know, I had to sit down with the principal and they called my dad and my dad said the most important thing to him is making sure his son got a great education. That was the whole reason they decided to go ahead with the scholarship in the first place, was that he understood that he'd be getting a great education first and he knew how important that was going to be. Heading into professional rugby. It kind of brought things to light for me. I kind of plotted along through year 11, but realized that year 12 was going to be a super important year off the field, more than it was going to be on. And I think it put me in good stead moving forward. So, yeah, I think, you know, you pick up a lot of different things from your family as you go. You learn, you evolve, you grow. But the biggest thing is they've just, they've always been honest with me. Their assessments of decisions that I've decided to do in life, my games as well, they don't beat around the bush, they just tell it how it is. And I think it's the most important thing for a kid growing up, you know, because if your parents can't be honest with you, who is going to be honest with you? So, you know, I think it allows you to be able to take criticism, you know, a lot easier because if you're copying it at home, you know, everywhere else, doesn't seem that bad. I love that.

That's seriously beautiful. And I really respect and admire your dad for prioritizing your education because I think for so many parents, you know, if you see your kid has this passion for a sport, or in my case it was a musical instrument, like you want to just get them to follow that and not worry about the education. But hey, things can happen. A career ending injury for a musician or a sports person can happen. And so I think it's beautiful that your dad did prioritize that. And over the last few years I've been connecting with people that look at the longitudinal studies with young boys, particularly who have education, really good education versus boys who don't. And the ones who don't tend to have worse social skills, lower emotional intelligence, higher incarceration rates, all these, you know, all these things, these terrible things, anxieties, depressions, so education is a starting point, foundational building block. So your dad had it absolutely spot on.

Yeah. And I think one of the big important things I found out, and it wasn't only till about two years ago, is that I guess education comes in many different forms and types. It's not just sitting in a classroom and just soaking things in that way, looking at PowerPoint presentations and, you know, taking in a one sided conversation. And I think some people learn great that way and, you know, it works great for them. And they were able to go into different areas and different fields of work that helped them excel with that type of platform. What I found is that education is sometimes about exposure, experience, experiences as well. And you find that with a lot of the Pacific island community, very hands on people, you know, and it's no secret to why, you know, a lot of them excel in areas where, you know, there's a lot of group work involved. What you'll find is you don't find a funny thing, you being a musician. My mother taught me this as she sang in a lot of choirs. She was a minister's daughter growing up. You don't find a lot of individual.

Pacific Islander artists around. What you find is they do a lot better in groups, in choirs, in the fields of work, you'll find a lot of them actually don't mind working in construction because they get to work with a group very good socially, you know, and, and they work well within groups. They understand how to excel as an individual within a team environment, you know, and I think they're things that you don't get taught through school and in life. They're just kind of things that you just have naturally, I guess, and they're things that experiences teach you over time. So yeah, it's kind of crazy to see, you know, everyone learns in different ways, just like everyone prepares for things in different ways. And it's so individual. But I guess, you know, for us it's. It's that how do you put your stamp on things and put your flavor on things as an individual and excel in that team environment?

That's amazing. And when you think about the Wallabies, there's such a different dynamic of different backgrounds and people and ethnicities. So you bringing your Samoan culture to the team, so how does that all work with everyone bringing their different ethnicities? Does everybody celebrate everybody's backgrounds and enjoy it and do you guys bring it to the team?

Yeah, yeah, we do. It was something that we probably didn't pay a lot of attention to early on in my career. And that's no fault of anyone's. It was just the norm, and we kind of just you know, stayed with it. It was just easier that way, you know, and sometimes easy road always isn't necessarily the best road taken, but it's a road nonetheless, you know. In 2019 at the Brumbies, Dan McKellar decided he thought, you know, with almost 50% of.

Our squad being of Pacific island descent at the Brumbies, it's a true opportunity for us to celebrate that and, you know, understand.

You know, different things about how to get the best out of. Out of them, you know, because sometimes we can be seen as quite shy. But if you understand the island culture and our mannerisms, you understand it has a lot to do with respect for elders. So, you know, Dan being the head coach, we told him that, you know, you are pretty much like the chief of the team, you know, so when I. And it's very rude, you know, to be. First of all, when you're talking to someone in the Samoan culture, to be standing, you need to be sitting and to be looking eye to eye the entire time. So what I guess we see in Western culture as a disrespect. Not making eye contact the entire time in other cultures is seen as a sign of respect. And it's just that understanding. And this is where I loop back to education through experience, exposure on that. And he said, you know, should we get someone in and do the PowerPoint and everything? And I'm just like, no, because you've got so many different cultures in here, you lose whoever was speaking first, you know, and just we don't have the time to do three different sessions about Tamo, Fiji and Tonga. It's a good opportunity for you to do. Like, in Sydney, we have Fiji Day, you know, Samoan Independence Day, you know, Tonga Day. Like, you go there, there's stalls, there's touch, foodie, you know, and it's just. It's a great experience. The music, everyone's got a stage, everyone does items, sings, you know, and it's just a nice way to sort of engulf the entire culture into one experience. And he decided to do that for us in 2019. So we did a big Pacifica day. At the start.

We did an ava ceremony. So in Samoan culture, compared to probably Fiji and Tonga, I guess kava is a bit more, you know, sort of a day to day thing. In Fiji, they do have kava ceremonies, but in Samoa, only people with titles are known to drink the kava. Or the other during the Ava ceremony. So it's things I'm still learning. You know, one of my. I have a few New Year's resolutions and one of my this year is to relearn Samoan and reconnect with my. With my heritage and beautiful. I think it's a. It's a big thing. I'm hoping to travel to Samoa at the end of the year, revisit the villages and just reconnect with the people who made my parents childhoods so special, you know, and. And see the places they grew up and understand where they came from and keep understanding that. So, yeah, it was pretty cool. We had our first Pacifica round and so we had the Pacifica jerseys. Something that came kind of really full circle for me was unreal. Was my hundredth Brumby's cat fell on that weekend. Wow. We managed to. To get a win. So, yeah, it was super special, you know. You know, and something that a year, really special year for me.

Something that I've never experienced before, but I'm very fortunate to Dan, our head coach, Chris Thompson, our CEO and the brumbies for taking the time to recognize that and the flow on effect we saw of that is when Dave Rennie came into the Wallabies. Being of Cook island descent.

He'S a very good singer and he's really good on the guitar and you know, decided that each.

Person of different heritage or different culture would sing songs every week. So, you know, beautiful. We had Samoan. So on our socials, on the Wallabies, you know, we saw. We had the Fiji song, Fijian song, Tongan song, Samoan song. We did a. A Maori song. Maori song. And we tried a Cook island song as well at the Australian song as well there, obviously. Yeah. And we tried to obviously learn the Australian anthem for the last. The last game in the dialect of the Gadigal people in Sydney. So that's why we sang the anthem first in that dialect. So, yeah, you know, it's really cool. I think it's one Australia's unique features is how multicultural we are, how diverse we are with all these. All these customs and traditions. And I think it's something we don't celebrate enough in Australia, but I guess you've just got someone. You've got to get someone to start the conversation there.

And. Sorry, I'm sort of rambling on a bit here.

This is great. No, it sounds like you've had an amazing coach there that thought he's not just thinking of high performance. He's not just Thinking of results. He's thinking about culture and he's thinking about, okay, if I can develop and weave this amazing culture, bring all these different young lads and young men together and really respect their culture, I'm going to get a better overall performance, they're going to enjoy themselves and leave a lasting legacy. And it sounds like that's what's happening.

Yeah, we had just one, one thing, one little story to finish off.

To finish that, that question off was Murray Douglas who's moved on to Japan of Scottish descent. Joined our squad two years ago for the last two seasons or two or three seasons and unreal guys, super humble, hard working, just, you know, had been around to a few different teams. Bit of, I guess a journeyman. He's also a qualified, certified, sorry, lawyer as well. So I'm pretty switched on guy. But he sort of, you know, showed me, I guess I'd met a lot of really cool people over time but he kind of, it's just what I believe rugby is all about. He came in, had no idea he played in New Zealand and understood all the things but really took to the Pacifica Day and then last year as well, just he would turn up to all the team drink ups, try to learn all the songs we liked and everything. One of the days. Because whoever's house it is, we normally get them to be the DJ as well. So he drank, we were drinking in our garage, Tevita bought the COVID bowl over and he'd never had, never had cover before. So we had drank the COVID and he, and he enjoyed it. And then I got him to play some Scottish songs for us. You know, we had no idea what they were saying in the songs but you know, it was just, I think no one had ever asked him before to play his music unless he was with his family and friends. So yeah, we got around him and I think that's special thing is the bonds you create with people and how comfortable you become with people where you know, you almost, they're almost pretty much your family away from your family, you know. And I guess one of the things my mum always said is, you know, how would you, you know, would you treat your family like this at home, you know, so you've got to, you know, take those values and take that and that's how you've got to start treating your team because they're the people you live with every day and people you go to battle with and then the people who are going to turn up for you, you know, so, you know, if you want them to Then that's what you need at the end of the day.

I love that. I love that you're really connecting family and high performance sport. And I think that there is such a cross connection between the two. And the fact that you've been brought up with the amazing cultural background by beautiful parents has allowed you to fit into some incredibly high performing teams and thrive.

Hey, James here.

I wanted to take a quick moment to let you know about something. Look, I get asked to deliver keynotes and workshops for teams and companies all over the world, from London to Antarctica, from America to Australasia, from Australia armies to small businesses to large corporates, to sports teams. But I go in and deliver keynotes around the mindset of high performers, around the habits of high performers, about how we navigate change. If you would like me to come and speak to your team or speak at your conference or deliver a bespoke workshop, please get in touch with my team. Carolinejlochlin.com will be able to help. I'll also make sure that we put that in the show notes.

Yeah, no, it has, I mean it's put me in good stead again. I can't, I can't thank them enough. They've done so much for me. They continue to do so much. So, yeah, I guess while I'm, while I'm in this arena of professional rugby, you know, you know, it's, it's not a bad thing to splurge every now and then on them, you know, and absolutely, you know, give them all the things that they, they, you know, they thought were maybe unattainable to them growing up. So, you know, they're so humble about it, they try not to accept it. My dad sarcastically says no, but you.

Know, a big shout out to your parents. We should say hello to them.

Yeah, yeah.

Is it talofa? How do I say hello in Samoan?

Talo falava.

Talo FA lava. We'll say talo FA lava to your parents then.

Love it. So tell me this. I look at you and I see such success. I see it from your high school age. I see it at your club rugby, your club team. I see it at your state team. I see it at your national team. You're incredibly successful at what you do. So if you were to look at what you do, what would you call your success formulas? Is there certain things we like? Hard work, dedication, repetitions, mindset. What are some things that you look at? Say that's my formula that helps me get a more successful outcome than if I didn't do that, I guess.

I guess I'm very organized in my preparation. I have a routine that I tend to stick to a fair bit. And consistency is key at our level. If you can't consistently deliver, you know, unfortunately, that's when you, you find yourself on the back burner there, you know, and it's, it's something that I think people tend to say, like, you know, people say, you know, don't talk about winning, you know, and this. And I think, you know, those are the sort of things that hold you back when you're afraid to talk about something. You kind of fear the consequences that come with that as well. And, you know, I think one of the things is just because you're afraid, you're not afraid one day to just start talking about winning or, you know, start talking about things like this doesn't mean you're just immune to it, you know, it's, it's a forever changing and evolving process, I think, you know, for an individual, you know, and like you said, so many different things come into play. Injuries, team selection, the weather of the day, you know, how you feel that morning when you wake up, your preparation throughout the week. So I think just being consistent in what you do is super important.

In one of the questions I answered earlier, before, when you.

Pour yourself into rugby early, that's the time where you find out what's most important to you to your Monday to Friday, Friday grind. And that's where you need to spend that time experiencing, you know, new things and trying new things because you won't know what works for you, you won't know your formula unless you, you know, take the time to piece it all together there. So, yeah, it's, it's a, I don't think it's necessarily like, you know, there's one standout thing, you know, that's just got me to where I am today. I think hard work, determination, persistence, all these things, they've got to become non negotiables for you as a, as a professional athlete, you know, and it's finding what your X factor is, what's your point of difference, I guess, and, and, you know, injecting that into the team, you know, what do you as an individual bring as a team? So understanding your core role, your core role in your position and then understanding what you do the best compared to anyone in the world, you know, there and harnessing that. So I think, I guess, you know, I think one thing at the back end of my career I've learned is that you've Got to be willing to keep growing and taking on advice as much as you can. You know, this. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Is not the way for it might have been 10 years ago. But if you're not willing to change and to grow and to evolve individually and this is both on and off the field, then, you know, you'd be stuck where you are. And you might play at a high level, you know, and you might just sort of stay there and it might be enough. But, you know, it then becomes the conversation of where you were a good player or were you a great player, you know, and if you're in the professional environment and you don't want to be, you know, a great athlete, one of the greats, and you know, what are you really, you've got to understand and what are you really trying to achieve in this arena here? So, yeah, I can't pin it down to one thing. I think it's forever changing for me as you see, you know, what's happening in the world is forever changing. So, yeah, I think it's just, you know, having an open mindset, refreshing every year and just remember what got you to where you were and how hungry and driven you were when you first started professional rugby.

I love that. And you talked about personal growth on and off the field. So what do you do off the field to continue to grow your mindset and to make your future brighter?

Look, I think, you know, education is super important.

A lot of boys study. I did do uni for a bit. I think there's things that I need to talk to our careers advisor about. I think one of the hardest things for rugby players when they are finishing up with rugby is finding something else you have a passion for outside of rugby. You're obviously not going to have the same amount of passion for that that you did in rugby, but, you know, you don't want to just go into another job just because it looks pretty and it looks nice, you know, I think you've got to find something that you have a passion for.

Definitely. So I'm very social person, love golf, not that great at it. So tend to play a lot of Ambrose through ball basketball with the boys. But I just enjoy the social aspect of golf. You know, it can bring a lot of different people together and, you know, One shot in nine or 18 holes can make a round for someone, you know, And I love the how much that is play a lot of PlayStation, Call of Duty, Fortnite, all this. So what I found is actually it's It's a really cool way to connect and stay in touch, just like Zoom is and as well. So I also, you know, Obviously too much PlayStation is never great for anyone, but I found that PlayStation probably has kept a lot of kids off the street.

It's probably good for professional rugby players. I think it, it's, it's probably kept a lot of people from overindulging in gambling and, you know, becoming alcoholics and this. So people have their opinions on PlayStation and I understand that too much of anything is never, is never good, but I, I think it has, it's had a good effect on, on professional sport and young kids coming up. So I think finding a balance is obviously the important thing there. But I think in the bigger picture, I think it's done a lot more.

For the economy than most people would like to point out.

100% agree. And chat to some of the guys in the All Blacks who are also pro rugby players. They talk about Fortnite and all the gaming that they do just to relax and to just decompress after a game. So I think you guys all have that in common. You high performers are big gamers.

Yeah, that's it. You know, I think it's, you know, we're all pretty competitive too, so ever so slightly. Yeah, just a tad. Just a tad. So, yeah, it's cool. It kind of without the strain on the body, you're able to, you know, keep that competitiveness going there as well.

I love it. And hey, would you have. If you think of someone out there who's dreaming, so they're sitting at home, they've got this massive dream, whether they're a cater or they're an adult. Massive vision, massive dream. But they don't know where to start. What advice would you give to that person?

I think first and foremost you need to understand who your support network is. Who are the people most important to you that can help you achieve what you want to achieve? I guess for me personally it was my family letting them know what I wanted to achieve in life and then setting a plan moving forward.

Luckily for me, my parents had a lot more life experience than I did. My father obviously had gone to a World cup with Samoa, played for Canterbury.

Wow, I did not know that.

Yeah, went to Canterbury University, so he played with the likes of Robbie Deans, Victor Simpson.

Jock Ross, you know, so a lot of, a lot of New Zealand legends there as well. Played against a lot of the all blacks of the 80s, so.

Amazing.

Yeah, you know, and obviously played with the late Peter Fatihalofa as well. He was the captain of Samoa in 1991. But, you know, I was very blessed that I had them in my corner and my mother as well.

Within what she had done in life, too. So I think, you know, you fool yourself sometimes if you think that individual athletes as well have just achieved everything off their own back, and they've just done everything themselves. A lot of them, boxers, tennis players, all this, they walk in entourages because that's the people that they. They lean on the most when they need them. You know.

Music, artists, actors, they're always in groups of people, you know, and. And. And. And that's what that is at the end of the day. It's the people closest to them, the people that are going to help them get to where they need to be, you know, have those honest conversations with them and that. And I think, you know, I believe that's the most important thing. Recognize what you want to do, understand the plan to get there, you know, and then commit to that, you know, and then you understand what drives you externally. And then. Then the next sort of step, the next process is to find what's your. Why, what's your inner drive, you know, what do you individually want out of life and want out of professional rugby? You know, what do you kind of legacy do you want to leave behind? You know, so.

Yeah, I think that's the most important for me.

That's amazing. And, you know, I think when you said, you know, start with why, it reminds me of the great author Simon Sinek, who wrote the book Start with why. And it's all about discovering your intrinsic drivers and what internally drives you. So with that in mind, what legacy do you want to leave?

Yeah, I think it's an interesting one. Obviously, early on my career was. It was all family, you know, and that was what drove me and understand the sacrifices and all that. And it still does. And I think, you know, I've learned that sometimes it's not enough, you know, and what do you want out of rugby and what do you want to achieve and what are you playing for at the end of the day? And what I found is that, you know, I want to inspire the next generation. Like a generation inspired me to want to play for the Wallabies and to play super rugby. George Smith was my. My favorite rugby player growing up. I was a young back rower, you know, you know, so I, you know, I wanted to be like him. I wanted to play in the back row, six, seven, eight, you know, and. And be kind of like A jack of all trades. And you know, you had to there as well. Obviously being a young Samoan kid growing up, there were the, the people that I naturally gravitated towards, you know, and yeah, it's.

I guess watching George Togtai, you know, obviously George Gregan as well. You know, one day I'd hope to be one of those players that inspires a kid to want to play prop, you know, for the Brumbies and the Wallabies and, and leave that lasting legacy, get back to club rugby, you know. And I remember how excited I was when we knew that, you know, the first grade West Harbour were coming down and you know, the Waratahs were potentially coming down to train us. I played a lot of league growing up too. I was about Main junior. So getting the opportunity to meet Benji Marshall, you know, in the mid-2000s when I was coming through was just unreal. And you know, you sometimes forget that feeling, you know, when you go through and when you recognize that again, it's such a warm and unreal energy, you know, and you know, kids bring that out of you, I think the most. So I think that's, you know, when I look back on my career, I think you want to be known as a great player but you know, you'll find consistently a lot of guys say they've also wanted to be known as, you know, a top bloke.

Well, I think, well, I shouldn't say I think I know that is the legacy that you're creating. You emanate this authenticity. You're down to earth, you're grounded, you're willing to speak to anybody and everybody and you show that in person. You show on your social media, you show it on the field, off the field. So you're really doing an amazing job at that, Scotty.

Geez, I appreciate it.

It's amazing. And the one thing I want to ask you as well was just around pressure because a lot of people look at you on the field and they're like, whoa, look at him go and look what he's doing. But not only are you dealing with on field pressure, you've got a life off the field. Like you've got to pay the bills, you've got to have relationships, you've got to deal with a broken down car, you've got to deal with what the media are maybe writing about your social media. How do you deal with stress and pressure?

Yeah, it's a, it's a tough one. Look, I think you've just got to look at it from the perspective of there's the pressure that we face and then there's the pressure that people around the world are facing who are less fortunate than you are. You know, you've really just got to put things into perspective. You know, I think, you know, sometimes we probably make our problems to be bigger than what we think they are, you know, and when you do that, you're able to micromanage them better I think as well there. But you're right, I mean, it's not a performance based environment without pressure at the end of the day, the pressure to consistently turn up at training each week, pressure to, you know, perform on game day, week in, week out and continually push the boundaries there. You know, I guess the pressures of what the day to day living at home bring, but I think it's all part of the process at the end of the day.

You know, if you too busy thinking about the outcomes and the consequences, then you forget about what's the process, you know, to figure these out and it becomes so much tougher.

So yeah, I think, you know, I've been under pressure a lot through times. I don't think that you can say that you haven't. And people who in the professional environment say they don't really feel the pressure are definitely lying.

Everyone feels it in some sort of way, you know, everyone just has different ways of dealing with it there. So yeah, I think, you know, I found a lot of the things away from rugby, you know, sort of tougher to deal with.

I'm single at the moment, so, you know, I guess I'm trying to find something to share this life with someone who becomes important to me away from my, my family and you know, you don't fear the consequences of rugby because you know that you can turn it around in one week or in one training session. You know what I mean? We make mistakes on the rugby field, but the magnitude of the mistakes you make there compared to some of the mistakes you can make in life, it's probably not even in the same conversation there. You know.

It'S not like you can, you know, stuff up a relationship and then just make it up the next day. You know, people just sometimes don't let go of things and sometimes you never recover from that. So it's the same with all different personal experiences in life. So there are definitely things that probably I haven't found the answer for for me. And I'm continually trying to find an answer and open yourself up. I think, you know, fear of failure away from rugby is massive. It's something probably that I need to continually deal with. It's always a tough one. So I think it's there. And if you understand that it's there, that's a good thing, because, you know, you know, and when you try to sort of block it out, it's always tough, you know, because it's always sort of creeping up on you. But when you understand that that might be part of the process, it is what it is, and it's about learning and growing from that experience, you know, puts you in a much better place. Moving forward.

The first thing I'd like to say is one, I love that you can acknowledge that you have a fear of failure. And I think that is the first step in being able to move forward and handle it, because it's a human trait. I'm actually reading Barack Obama's book A Promised Land, and he talks about his own fear of failure. And then as he got closer to presidency and he started to realize, wow, I might become the president. Fear of success then kicked in.

Fear of.

And he's like, whoa. He started to back away a little. So I think no matter who we are, we're all human. We all have these fears of letting people die and of disappointment, of humiliation, of success, failure. So I really admire you and acknowledge you for being open and saying, hey, that exists within me, but I actually have a coping mechanism and a strategy to deal with it.

Yeah, 100% funny you say that. My siblings got my father his book for Christmas, so he's also been reading it, and he says it's an unbelievable read. He just says there are a lot of different things, obviously, the fear of failure, coping mechanisms in and around that, being ready for opportunities. I think he was the.

Youngest senator or whatever to put his hand up for presidency as well. And I'm not 100% sure of the whole story, but my dad just sort of says the biggest thing he learned from him was that no matter what, even when he. He wasn't ready, he taught. He told himself he was ready no matter what. You know, and even if he knew he hadn't prepared the best, he just. His mindset was always, always, he's ready. He was. No matter what came forward, no matter what came his way, he was always good to go. And, you know, I think even you. You read about a lot of, you know, different people through life, but I think, you know, reading the book of the first, you know, black president of America would be, you know, you pick up a lot of different life lessons there. So, yeah, it's.

Like, I Said, I mean, that's no surprise to me that you're also reading his book and picking up.

A few things there to add to your arsenal. I think it's great.

That's a beautiful book. And Scotty, the first four chapters have probably made 300 little notes about it. You know, I went wild. There's so many lessons. It's a phenomenal read. And I think the internal dialogue thing that came out, the self talk, the positive self talk that Barack talks about. So for you, is there anything that you do internally to prepare for a big test match or to prepare for the World Cup? Do you say anything in here that lines up with your heart and gets you ready to go?

No. I think I had a tendency to overthink things when I was younger. I was so like my father, very meticulous in my preparation. And I'm so big on have to be here at this time. This is my role here. This is if this happens. This is where I need to be where. And sometimes you tend to lose that instinctiveness over time, you know, and you become a bit like a robot, where you're good within the game plan. But then it's. I guess it's that what I talked about is, what's your point of difference? Then again, you know, what's your X factor? And you lose yourself in it a bit. So I think I just have to tell myself that I've been here and I've done it before, you know, plenty of times, you know, and just go back to that. What worked for you, you know, when you're coming through and what got you to where you are today. And I just have to remind myself of that at the end of the day and remind myself that what I've done from Monday to Friday is enough. And I've ticked the boxes, and it's just about making sure that I turn up on game day for my teammates, for my team, and for those people who are supporting me.

That's amazing. And I think people listening could also apply that to their own lives. And when they're coming up against a big, say, a career transition or they're applying for a job, or they're about to get down on one knee and propose is just remember, hey, I've succeeded in one thing before. I've succeeded in this. I passed that test. I got my driving license. I think it's about empowering yourself and reminding yourself you have done it. And I want to thank you for sharing that. It's amazing.

Yeah, no, 100%. I think sometimes you know, we're our own harshest critics, you know, and we don't give ourselves, you know, enough credit for what we've achieved in life. And, you know, I never quite understood the quote, you know, learning to love yourself, you know, makes it easier to love others. You know, I've never understood it, but it's something that I guess I'm kind of getting, getting to understand. And it's not just, you know, you love yourself, then you can love others, you know, it's, it's, you know, understanding. It's more of an understanding of, of yourself and, and, you know, what you bring to the table, what your flaws are, you know, and everything and being comfortable with that as well, you know, so that when you meet people in life.

You know, you're not afraid to tell them, you know, of that. It's not all about the good stuff. It's about having that vulnerability to open up to people and say, look, you know, it is what it is. This is something I struggle with or, or this is an experience that I've been through.

And I'm not afraid to talk about it. And hopefully, maybe it helps someone along the way or it helps you understand that situation better. So if you do come across it, you know that someone else has been through it and they've found a way to get through it as well that.

Is so relevant in this day and age. When we've got Instagram, we've got Clubhouse that's just been released, we've got Twitter, Snapchat, when we see everyone's kind of like highlight reels and often we don't see their vulnerability and when we do, sometimes it shocks us. So I love that you're encouraging people to express more self love, look within and accept yourself for who you are and then get out into the world and you're able to connect with people and other humans in a totally different way. When you love yourself for who you are.

Yeah, I think it's super important, especially in professional sport, because whether you like it or not, not everyone's going to care about the Monday to Friday grind before a weekend game. You know, all they see is 80 minutes between the white lines on the weekend. And you know, some people will just, that's all they care about, you know, and they'll just judge you on that at the end of the day. And if you can't look, if you can't learn to look past that, it's just rugby becomes, not just rugby, but the professional sport environment becomes a bit of a burden on you. Because you're so harsh and so critical of yourself that if you start taking in opinions of people who weren't there for you from the start, then it's just gonna keep weighing you down and keep weighing you down and every mistake is gonna seem like a big mistake and it's all gonna pile up. And mentally it's hard to cope, you know, I think over time. And it's the blessing and the curse of social media, isn't it? At the end of the day, and I'm not a fan of this, everyone has their own opinion and blah, blah, blah. You know, I think social media has given everyone too much power, and that's politicians, professional athletes, day to day, people, actors. It's given everyone too much power over other people's lives, you know, and I just think, you know, I understand you're invested in teams and you're invested in people and all this and, and that, but like, you know, don't throw stones at a glass house. At the end of the day, you know, who are you to judge people for what they're going through? You know, And.

I think everyone has their own story. Everyone's obviously going through different things and, you know, adversity and that, you know, you can't just say because someone is starving here, they have no water and that their problems are just bigger than what you're going through. You've got to understand that every little problem, you know, counts, you know, and obviously I'm a man of faith, a Catholic. My parents are devoted Catholics, obviously a lot more forthcoming than I am. But what I always understood is that, you know, to God and Jesus, no problem's bigger than the other. You know, every problem is important to them. So I think it's the same thing in life.

You know, where every problem counts and making sure you're, you're there for each of them and making sure that you address each of them is important as well.

100%. 100%. Thank you, Scotty, for sharing. That took me back to last year. I spent the whole year studying Nelson Mandela and reading books and watching documentaries and taking notes. And he said one thing that really resonated with what you just said, and it was all about judgment. And he said, don't ever judge a human by one of their current actions or one specific time in their life. He said, the only time if you're going to judge someone is like, wait to the end, wait to the end of their life and judge them on their whole life what they've done, what they've given what they've taken their goods, their bads. And I guess from him, he spent 27 years in prison, he went to prison for treason and then came out and transformed a country and united people and was really the father of forgiveness. And I love that outlook. Don't judge someone on one thing they've done on the field in the 80 minutes. Don't judge someone on the one faux pas that they've said or they've screwed up with a word they've used, or they've been interviewed and said the wrong thing. Don't judge someone on that. Look at the whole span of their life and look within before you, before you judge 100%.

And obviously there are people, you know who support you as fans and that, who love you and have been there all the way. But I just think, you know, social media has just given too many people too much power to just say what they want without any consequences. And, you know, there's always going to be people that go, oh, well, you know, when you decided to be a rugby player, this is criticism that. That comes along and blah, blah, blah, you know, and. But you've got to, you know, look at it in the scheme of life, you know, in terms of people taking opportunities in rugby. You got to look at your workplace. You know, if you were provided the same opportunity and work in your workplace, would you not go ahead and do it? You know, and you've got to ask yourselves those questions at the end of the day. So, yeah, I think you've got to learn to deal with it. It's the. It's the times my father said he'd hate to be playing in this, in this time because, you know, he's just being on social media, it's just realized how much people can just. I just have to get. You can get you at any point in time. There's an app for everything, you know.

But, yeah, like I said, you know, it's the times we live in, it's the time we're growing. And that's why being able to adapt and adjust and evolve is super important 100%.

And I think that, you know, as a professional athlete, I imagine resilience is so, so important. So that when you do get that criticism, which is inevitable, that you have the thick skin that your parents helped you develop, you know, they told you the truth and kept honesty as a big part of that relationship. Gives you that resilience to deal with these haters.

Yeah, 100%. And it's one of our pillars at the brumbies. You have to remain resilient as a rugby player. I mean, you ought to look at guys like David Pocock Back to back ACLs, you know, that would have finished a lot of different players careers. But you know, he went on.

Became better in different areas of his game and evolved as a rugby player. And you know, it's amazing to see someone who arguably probably didn't need to do anything to his game and could have come back and still performed at a high level, but wanning, had that growth mindset within that and understood that it's a opportunity to grow within. Rehab as a player is amazing to see and I think it's something that any young rugby player could learn from in terms of dealing with injuries and that sort of thing, moving forward.

I love it. It's amazing. And hey, I've got one last question for you. I know that you got a lot on your plate and you're prepping for big things coming up, so I want to say a massive thank you for making the time and it's really great to connect. Hopefully we can do this again in person in Fiji sooner rather than later.

Yeah, yeah, that's it. Over a few my times maybe.

That sounds wonderful.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, the one last question I've got for you is what is your definition of purpose?

Yeah, I guess it's similar to what's your inner why? You know, and.

You know, I think it's. It can be such a broad question, you know, and I think.

There'S no one answer and I think it's important that maybe you need a couple answers to a couple different answers to answer this question.

Like I said, I think my inner why is probably what my purpose in rugby is now to inspire.

You know, and.

My, I guess, purpose in life is to be a good family man. You know, I think one of the quotes, new quotes, I put up a new quote on my Instagram every year and each year it's always been something about rugby, you know. You know, persistence is key, you know, work hard in silence. Let success be your noise. Was it last year, but I think I had to strip it all back and remember what was important. And this year it's family.

Where life begins and love never ends, you know, and I think it's something that I'll live my life by this year. And I guess it's something where I talked about wanting to share, you know, my life with someone, my experiences with someone. One of the really cool things I've noticed is seeing.

A lot of the boys and their kids where they're at an age where they can see. So Kep's. Take Kep's.

He's the kind of guy that I'd love to model being a father on and being a husband, and the love that he shares with Anna, his wife, and he has with his kids. But the really important thing is seeing how proud his kids are of him. They wear his jersey, they have his number, and they're at an age where they can share that with him. And I think that's something really cool that I'd like to experience one day, you know, And I think, yeah, I think, you know, your purpose is something that's forever changing. I don't think there's, you know, one thing that you should strive to be in life. I think it's, you know, a couple of different things that you'd like to leave in terms of a legacy and in terms of your experiences with people. You know, they have different conversations and had different experiences with you, so they talk about the different things, you know, about you that they got to spend time with. So, yeah, I guess I can't give you one of those textbook answers, you.

Know, that was amazing.

Yeah. But it's. Yeah, I guess it's. For me, it's just something that I just keep learning and keep and keep understanding as I. As I go along to the journey of life.

I love it. Well, I want everyone that's listened in to please head over to Instagram, follow Scotty SEO. That's s I o Scotty SEO. Please go and follow him. He's an inspiration. Incredible player. So, Scott, I just want to say a heartfelt thank you for making the time to connect.

Thank you so much for having me on. Really cool to connect again. And I think it's something really, you know, important, I think, to, you know, cherish those, you know, those people you meet and you connect with in life. And, you know, I think, you know, everyone give this guy a follow. He's doing some really cool stuff, you know, and I think there's a lot of vulnerability.

On his page with a lot of different people through life. And I guess it's for a lot of our different experiences. There's an opportunity for everyone to learn and continue to grow. So, you know, for everyone listening or watching, you know, all the best for 2021. Stay safe, keep healthy. Much love to all your families. Same to you, brother. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. And, you know, all the best for the year.

Thank you so much for listening in today and investing in your own personal growth. Please hit that subscribe button. And I would love, love, love if you'd leave me a rating and review as it really helps me to impact more people.

I've got some amazing guests lined up.

In the coming weeks and folks, it's that time. Get out there and live life on purpose.