The Key To Living Fearlessly And Achieving The Impossible

I'd like to ship you a free copy of my book, Habits of High Performers. If you come and join the 2026 goal setting workshop, I will ship you one of these today. The link is in the notes. Please come and join me to set up the very best 2026 you could imagine. If you've set up goals in the past or New Year's resolutions and they haven't substantiated, I'm here to help you across all the key pillars of your life, nail your goals. I'll see you there.

I look at what you've done, I'm like, my goodness, you're an inspiration. You've had one of the most difficult experiences anyone can go through.

This horrific car accident happened for me. I promise I'll do something significant if you let me live. I was living this life where I was punching the clock like, oh, I'm gonna climb a mountain. I'm gonna climb a mountain for my 40th birthday.

You did something pretty spectacular. And you are a Guinness World Record holder.

I literally climbed this mo mountain in Russia in Scooby Doo underwear. He's like, I think you should be the first female to climb the seven second summit. Seven continents, seven mountains, seven children. It's a jackpot. Stay in the struggle, but keep your eye on the prize. 25% of the people that attempted K2 died in its pursuit. I don't know why the heavens were in my favor, but we summited. We don't get to choose when we die, but we sure get to choose how we live.

Welcome to Lead on Purpose. I'm James Laughlin, former seven time World champion and now international keynote speaker and high performance leadership trainer. Each week I bring you an inspiring leader or expert to help you lead your life and business on purpose. Thanks for helping us be a consistently number one right show on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. I hope you enjoy today's show.

The Lead on Purpose podcast is sponsored by NZ Mortgages. Learn more at nzmortgages.co NZ Today's special guest is none other than Jen Drummond. Jen almost died in a horrific car accident where her car toppled and toppled after being hit by a massive truck. However, she walked away and after that she decided, I've got to make the most of every second of my life. She went on to break the world record and become a Guinness World Record holder for the first first woman to climb the seven second summits. She is phenomenal. Her story is mind blowing. She goes on to almost die another few times. And the way she tells the story, it makes me feel like, wow, we can take her lessons without having to do the crazy things that she had to go and do and implement them in our lives, in our relationships, in our health, and in our work. You're in for an amazing episode today, so please sit back and enjoy the show. Jen, a huge welcome to the Lead On Purpose podcast.

Oh, my gosh. I'm so excited to be here. So thank you.

I'm so glad to have you. It's like, I look at what you've done and I'm like, my goodness, you're an inspiration. And I think it's easy for us to look at people's successes and go, wow. But actually, when we look at what you've done, I feel it was driven from a major struggle, a major point in your life where it was a turning point, and I'd actually like to start there. Obviously, we could start with Seven Summits, which I know we're going to get to, but I want to start at the beginning. You've had one of the most difficult experiences anyone can go through, which is near death. How did that all come about? And what were the days and weeks after that like for you?

Yeah. This is going to sound crazy, but I think I called that accident in.

Wow.

And I think I called it in because I was living this life where I was punching the clock and doing all the things I was supposed to be doing, and I was hitting all these social benchmarks that would make you considered successful. And I kept getting to these points. I'm like, is this it? Like, this is it? Like, I don't feel like what I thought I would feel when I got to this point. So I just. I didn't know how to shake up my world. I didn't know how to, like, pivot and change and follow my own internal compass. So I feel like this horrific car accident happened for me because the minute the semi truck hit the passenger side, I was like, okay, I promise I'll do something significant if you let me live. And then my car went, like, end over end three times, rolled about six to eight times sideways, ended up upside down to the median. I remember hearing a voice like, are you okay? Are you okay? But it wasn't registering. I'm like, I wonder. You heard the sound, but you weren't listening to the words. And then this person peeled back the windshield, and he's like, are you okay? Like, oh, he's talking to me. And I looked at his facial expression. I'm like, I must not be okay because his facial expression is telling me something I don't want to see. And so I closed my eyes and I wiggled my fingers and toes. And my first words were, I can feel my fingers and toes. Like, I can feel my fingers and toes. I'm okay. He's like, I think you are. I'm going to sit with you till the ambulance comes. And he did. And I went to the hospital. I actually got checked out the same day, which is bizarre. If you saw the car, it looks like a tin can. And I came home a couple weeks after the accident. I got a call from the police saying, like, listen, we've rebuilt this accident every possible way we can think of. There's not a scenario where you live. Like, we can't rebuild a scenario where you live or walk away. So buy that car for the rest of your life and, like, start figuring out why you were saved. And that's what I did. Like, I literally rewrote the book. Like, there was, it was a line in the sand. And for those of you that are listening, do not make the line in the sand be a near death experience. Like, just declare it birthday, new year, today, tomorrow, this minute, whatever you want. Like, declare this is your line in the sand and start doing life a different way.

Wow. Thank you for sharing that. I've got two questions off the back of that one. What was the car?

Yeah, it was a Porsche Cayenne. So thank goodness I was in this hot rod that's really fun to drive because I'm driving one of those the rest of my life.

Hell, yes, you are. That's amazing. It's a great, a great kind of endorsement for Porsche Cayenne. And for those people that don't want to have the accident, none of us do. It's scary as hell. It's life altering. It could be life ending. How do we get that line in the sand? What's the mindset shift that we need to get to actually go, here's my line in the sand. Today's the day.

Yeah. You know, I think if there's something uncomfortable or you're not happy or there's just like something that's nagging at you, and that nagging is going to go from a whisper to a scream to a car wreck to something crazy. And so if you can learn to listen to the whispers or these things that it's like, it just doesn't quite feel like I think it should, that's your call to action. That is your. Okay, I don't know what it is yet, but I'M going to start today questioning and getting curious, and then I'm going to lean into that curiosity, because curiosity leaves clues.

I love that. Curiosity leaves clues. I really do love that. I was chatting with a friend who used to be a lead psychologist in the sas, and she was taken captive by Al Qaeda. And somehow she's one of the very few that convinced them to let her go. And I said, how do you do that? Curiosity. She said, I got curious. Curiosity is the key. So I love that you've just brought that up. And that's our starting point to move forward. Now let's talk about where you moved forward to. So you're a mum of seven kids, I believe.

Yeah.

I high five you. I've got one child. I love him so dearly. I can't imagine it. You're amazing.

Yes. Well, I have a crazy story on the kids, so let's not skip over that because I think this is a story that a lot of us could have.

I struggled with fertility, like, did not have success. And when you're trying to get pregnant and you pee on that little piece of paper every single month and you're reminded that you're a failure, you're reminded, like, hey, the one thing the female body's designed to do, yours won't do, right? Like, the thing that you spent years trying to prevent. And all of a sudden you realize, like, I can't even do it anyways. Like, I mean, there is some shame and guilt stories there that can get really loud and do not serve you. So I lived that story and kept writing this horrible narrative about myself and finally went to get fertility assistance. Struggled still then, right? It wasn't like, hey, we went there and had this magical situation until one day we did come up with this chemical cocktail that turned me into a hen. And all of a sudden I had eggs. I didn't have eggs before for some reason. And when I got eggs, they didn't know what would happen. And we. Some eggs fertilized into 14 embryos.

Wow.

So they planted two, and I got my son Jack. I was beyond ecstatic. And then they like, they're like, hey, you might get three or four kids. And where I was living, you had choices of what to do with embryos. You either used them, you donated them to somebody else to use, which then meant the rest of my life, I'd be like, do I have a kid out here or not? And then they give them to you to destroy. I'm like, what? It took me how long to have this one Kid, I don't want that karma in my life. Like, no, thank you. So I elected to use them. And I got seven kids. Like, seven kids. And the crazy thing is that story, which was so much pain for me for so many years, has given me so much power for so many more. Because it's just that story of resilience, right? Of, like, okay, not today, but not yet, right? Like, not today, but that doesn't mean forever. That just means not yet. And so anytime I run into, like, a hard time or a struggle or whatever, I can fall back on that memory, and I'm like, I was rewarded with abundance, okay? Like, abundance is coming. It's just not yet.

Hey, James here. I wanted to take a quick moment to let you know about something. Look, I get asked to deliver keynotes and workshops for teams and companies all over the world, from London to Antarctica, from America to Australasia, from armies to small businesses to large corporates to sports teams. But I go in and deliver keynotes around the mindset of high performers, around the habits of high performers, about how we navigate change. If you would like me to come and speak to your team or speak at your conference or deliver a bespoke workshop, please get in touch with my team. Carolinejlochlan.com will be able to help. I'll also make sure that we put that in the show notes.

That's incredible. Persistence is like a word that screams loud at me. You are so persistent. You're relentless, and you continue to get after it.

Yeah, I do. I know you do not want to be on the other side of me. I promise.

I love it. It's so incredible. And to me, it's such a great lesson for all of us. And there's someone listening or watching right now that's struggling to achieve something, Struggling to have a child or struggling to get the job or struggling to make ends meet. And what I'm hearing from you is, hey, stay in the struggle, but focus on what's possible.

Yeah, 1000%. I like that. Stay in the struggle, but keep your eye on the prize.

I love it. That's amazing. Now we know that you did something pretty spectacular, and you are a Guinness World record holder. Like a dream come true for any human. What was the thing you did? And in fact, before you tell us what you did, how did you get started on the first step? Who inspired you to actually to do that?

Yeah. Okay. Like, this is funny. So ready? So I'm all of a sudden, in 2019, I'm alive, and I remember, like, I made a promise. I'm going to do something significant, like, let me live. I couldn't call back on that promise. Like, who would I call back against, right? So I'm like, okay, I have to do something significant, which is overwhelming because every. It's so far away from being able to know what your next step is. And I think anytime that we're overwhelmed, we're looking too big and we need to get more granular and next to where we are right now and take that next step. And so for me, I started writing this bucket list of things I wanted to do, experience, see, try. Like, I just started allowing myself to dream. And it could be silly, right? And some of the things on this list were, I want to eat pasta in Italy. I want to go swim on the Great Barrier Reef. I want to climb a mountain. I live in Park City. Like, I'm surrounded by mountains. Like, all these things kind of were on this list. And as you allow yourself to dream, the list gets bigger and wider. And as you experience things, new things get added to the list. Maybe some things get taken away because you're like, never mind. And on that list, I started to kind of organize it with things that I could do at a younger age that would be harder to do at an older age. And at the end of 19, like, 2020, I was turning 40. So I started looking over this list. I'm like, I'm going to do something epic for my 40th birthday. What's on this list that's only going to get harder and is, like, a great way to launch a decade? I'm like, oh, I'm gonna climb a mountain. I'm gonna climb a mountain for my 40th birthday. Like, this is perfect. And so I asked some friends. I'm like, hey, if you could climb one mountain in the whole world, like, only one, what one would you climb? And they're like, oh, go climb this mountain named Ama de Blomm, located in Nepal. I hadn't heard of it, so I was like, ama de Blomm. I was always interested in going into Nepal. So I'm like, okay, let's. You know, that checks a box. And they're like, you know, it means the mother's necklace. Like, I have seven kids. So I'm like, that's kind of cool. And someone told me at the time it was the Paramount Pictures logo. So every single time I went to, like, a Paramount Pictures movie, I could say, I climbed that mountain. Okay, those of you that are listening, that's a lie. It's not the Paramount Pictures logo, but I was sold. And so I was like, oh, okay, I'm going to climb that mountain. Sounds perfect. And so I was training for this mountain named Ama de Blaming. Well, if anybody remembers back to the beginning of 2020, travel plans and climbing mountains and going anywhere was, like, nixed because of this cute little thing called Covid that entered our lives. And so now, all of a sudden, I was stuck at home homeschooling seven children.

Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. And, like, this is where it gets juicy. So my son is doing his math homework. I'm like, come on, you got this. He's, like, pouting and doesn't want to do it. And I do that parent pep talk we all have. We do hard things. Like, you've got this. We'll go outside and play when you're done. And this little kid, 8 years old, looks up at me and he goes, mom, if we do hard things, why are you climbing a mountain called I'm a dumb blonde instead of a real mountain? Like, Mount Everest? It took me a second. Like, you're quick. You caught on. I'm like, I'm a dumb blonde. Ama de Blomm, honey, I know not I'm a dumb blonde, but thank you. And, like, that's the universe, friends who are listening today. Like, it has humor. And so I'm trying to climb this mountain. I'm a dumb blonde, which is what it's known for in my household. And my son ups me to Everest.

Wow.

And I thought to myself, I'm like, you know what? If this kid thinks Everest is the hardest mountain in the whole world, I'm going to climb it, and I'm going to show him whatever our Everest is, we're capable of climbing. And so I call a coach that trains people for Everest. He's like, yeah, I can get you ready. Buy this book about becoming an uphill athlete. And I'm like, okay, perfect. So this book comes in the mail. I'm devouring it, and in the front of it, there was a story of a lady who got a Guinness World Record for doing something in the Alps. I don't know what I drank that day. I have no idea what my mindset was. I look back on it, but, like, for some reason, I'm talking to my coach, and I'm like, I could have done that. And if I did that and I got to Guinness World Record, I'd be the coolest mom in the whole world. Because right now, I'm not a cool mom. Like, homeschooling. Is not working out for us. And I don't like my life. And my coach, like, took that as a challenge. She's like, jen, I'll think of something. I'm like, okay. But, like, that was kind of the end of it. All I was thinking is like, I know Guinness World record books because that's how my kids learned how to read read. And there's people who, like, grew fingernails and pumpkins and spit it, hot dogs and, like, a whole bunch of stuff I'm not interested in. And so when the coach called me back a few weeks later, he's like, I have the perfect world record for you. I'm like, okay. He's like, I think you should be the first female to climb the seven second summits. And he's like, all excited. I'm like, I don't know what you just said. Seven What? He's like, you know, the Seven second summits, they're the second highest point on each of the seven continents. I'm like, well, why would I want to hire the second? Like, what? He's like, no, no, no. You got to listen to this, Jenny. He goes, like, the seconds are actually harder than the first, and they've only been done by one male, so you'd be the first woman in the world to do this thing. And he goes, and if you think about it, seven continents, seven mountains, seven children, it's a jackpot.

And you know what? Like, that was my significant thing. I'm like, okay. Like, I am in. I'm gonna show the world that we can do these things and limiting beliefs are meant to be broken and blah, blah, blah, blah. Hey, does it matter that I haven't slept in a tent before? Because that's the thing. And he's like, no, no, we'll get you ready. And that's how it happened.

Wow, that's mind blowing. Like, that story is phenomenal. I love your son. Well, how cheeky. How brilliant.

Like, I truly think he thought it was. I'm a dumb blonde. Like, I don't think he was being funny. Like, I think he's like, I'm a Dablon. Like, I'm a dumb blonde. Like, why was my mom even doing this thing? She's so weird.

I can totally, like, oh, I think he's awesome. That's funny. So the sec. The. The second summits. What are they? Where are they located? What was that journey like? And trying to prep for something like that.

Oh, my gosh. Like, you know, ignorance is bliss, right? Like, when you don't know, you're like, I'll do this. I have no clue what it entails, but I'm in. So they. Okay, so let's go through them. You have Mount Tyree in Antarctica. You have Ojos del Salado located in Chile, of South America. You have Mount Kenya located in Kenya of Africa. Mount Townsend in Australia, K2 for Asia, Dick Tau for Europe, which is located in Russia. And then you have Mount Logan for North America, which is located actually in Canada. Wow.

So this is all over the world in some of the most incredible places. Including Antarctica.

I know. Yes.

My God, that's unbelievable. So this book, before you go to your prep, what was the book that you read, you were told to read? Can you remember the name of it?

It's called the Uphill Athlete.

Okay.

And it's about training to become, like, fit to go uphill because it's a different type of muscles and patterns and all this kind of stuff. And. Yeah, I want to read that now.

I guess we could say 100% you're one of the world's best. So you're prepping for it. Is this a couple of months prep? Is this years? Is it easy years? Okay.

Yeah. So here's what's interesting about the seven second summits compared to the seven summits. The seven summits are hikes, like 99% of every mountain on the seven summits. So like Everest in Aconcagua and Denali. And then, like, they're hikes. The second summits are like, one's a rock climb, so you're in rock climbing shoes with a harness and rope. One's an ice climb, one you kind of ski up on skins. Some of them you hike up. So, like, you have to have all these different ski skills. And so I'm looking at these mountains to learn, okay, what skill do I need for this mountain? What do I need to work on? How do I develop it? And then the other thing that's interesting is that mountains have climbing seasons. So that's why you always see summits of Everest in May, or you always See Summits of K2 at the end of July or the beginning of August, or you only climb Mount Tyre in January because that's the summer for Antarctica. And so it's like, a lot of times it was, okay, I need to wait till that climbing season to be able to go to that location to climb that mountain.

That's amazing. So, like, there's so much structure, so much planning. There's seasonal times to climb, so your windows to actually perform Are very, very limited. You miss the window. Then it's another year before you get to do that.

Another year.

My God. How do you do that from Park City? How do you prep for such things from Park City, Utah?

Yeah. Oh, I'm very lucky. So we have a ski resort here in town that is the largest ski resort in North America. So it's ginormous. And what I would do at nighttime, they have this, like. So at one, I. I'm by mountains, so I get to hike, I get to climb, I get to do all that kind of stuff all year round. And the winter, I can. They'll turn this lights on on one of the runs, and you can hike up at night and then ski down, Hike up at night and ski down. And so then you're like. You're not. Like, a lot of wear and tear in your body is the downhill. So when you could hike up and then ski down, it was like, okay, now I can get a lot of reps in and do these things, and I could go ice climbing here. So I was very lucky that I moved here and had access to some of the different skills that I needed to train.

But, yeah, no, I had no idea what I was getting into it. And, you know, like, K2 took two times. Mount Logan took two times. Like, every one of these mountains has a crazy story that you're like, real life. Are you sure? Where's the documentary?

Wow. There will be a documentary. I can tell you now. This is phenomenal. So K2, I've heard a little bit about, done a little bit of research on K2. What was that like standing at the bottom looking up? How did you feel?

Yeah. So it's interesting. I did Everest to train for K2. Wow. I know. Isn't that funny? So I did Everest first. And so that kind of took away the fear of the height because everest is like 800ft taller or something. Silly. I had climbed a different mountain, so I knew, like, I could do the climby features. The thing about K2 is that it is obnoxious and unapologetic. So when you're a kid and you draw mountains in school, you kind of draw a triangle when you're first learning how to draw a mountain. The only mountain in the world that looks like a triangle is k2. If you were to draw k2, the triangle would be appropriate. And it is this steep, like 60% grade for most of it. Mountain that shows off. You see it the entire time you're climbing. You know, when you climb Everest, you don't see the top of everest till Camp 4. You kind of, like, work around the mountain and get to it. Like, hey, two, you're on it the entire time. And it is unforgiving. And then the culture is a little unforgiving, too. Not to bash anybody, but it's a harsher culture than what I'm used to.

And what do you mean by that?

You know, like, in Nepal, you have, like, a Buddhist, Hindu culture that's very, you know, you're going to move worms. You're not going to kill them when you build something. Like, it's a very loving, everybody's equal. We're all here on this planet together. And then you get to Pakistan, which is predominantly Muslim. So depending on what version of Muslim that you, you know, believe in, sometimes some of them believe that women are property. And you can have up to five women as wives. They're lesser class, you know, like. And that's not everybody. Right? Just, like, you can meet, like, extremists in anything. But that energy is very different than Nepal and the. The landscape of Pakistan. So you have the Karakoram mountain range instead of the Himalayan mountain range. The Himalayans are these, like, big, gorgeous, beautiful mountains, almost feminine in energy. Like, they're very gentle and giant and loving. And then you get into the Karakorum, and they're very masculine. They're sharp and edgy and dynamic and all these pieces. And so it's just funny how, like, the land's even different. The people are different, just different. It's not bad or good. It's just one of those things where it's like, that's very different from where I'm coming from. So it's just more to adjust to.

Yeah, and that's hard as a performer, an athlete who's trying to achieve something monumental. Being in an environment that's not their normal environment, actually being uncomfortable is very difficult to perform at your best. And I think I read studies around K2. Around 20% of people have actually died on trying to Summit it.

Yeah, 20. Like. So when I went the first time, the stats were 25% of the people that attempted K2 died in its pursuit. Okay, so, like, K2 is so dangerous that typically you're going to acclimatize on a mountain next to it called Broad Peak. So you're going to go up and down Broad Peak to get your body used to the lack of oxygen. You know, like when you're on Everest, you just go up and down Everest. But when you're on K2, it drops rocks. And it's just dangerous from that kind of a standpoint. It's not even people dangerous. It's like naturally dangerous. You feel like you're playing Frogger when you're climbing. There's a rock, there's a rock. I gotta move, I gotta move. So like there's that component to it too.

That's unreal. And so you said it took twice. So first summit, what happened that you had to turn back or stop?

Oh, the first one was so hard. So, okay, so we're acclimatizing on this peak next to K2, which is called Broad Peak. There are fourteen 8,000 meter peaks in the world. So it's kind of cool to say, like you've done these Fourteeners, right? Or 14 8000ers. And so everybody was trying to summit. But the thing about big mountains, this is a business lesson. Big mountains take big teams, big goals take big teams. Like big companies take big teams, right? Like it's just like A and B equals C. And we didn't have a lot of people there in 2021 because Covid was still kind of a thing. And so not everybody was climbing, not everybody had been vaccinate, all that kind of stuff. So we were running very lean. So lean that in certain sections of the mountain, they would borrow rope from other sections that weren't as steep to give you enough rope to get through this section. And then there was some misplanning on how much oxygen we needed, how much fuel we needed. Like just a lot of things that weren't going well. And so since it was a acclimatizing mountain, like, yeah, I wanted to summit, but it wasn't my mountain. Like I was here for K2. I didn't want to get distracted on this one next to it. So when I started adding all the problems up, I'm like, I think I'm gonna go down. I just don't feel it. Like there's something off. There's been too many mistakes. And you don't get a lot of mistakes. And with mother nature and I, like, I waited an hour and a half at this section, like, hoping somebody else would want to go down with me. And finally an individual named Rick said, yeah, I'm gonna go down too. This isn't feeling right. So Rick and I head down. Rick stops at Camp 3. I'm kind of angry. So I go all the way down to Base camp because anger is great fuel for anything you're doing. Take this anger all the way down to Base camp and I get to Base Camp. Like, hey, you're here. I'm like, don't talk to me. Like, this was a disaster. You guys should be, like, angry. Like, I can't believe this happened. And then at midnight, I get a knock on my tent. Hey, Jen, there's been an accident on the mountain. You're the only person that's been up there. Can you help us? I'm like, I didn't go that high. Like, I turned around because things didn't go well. Well, long story short, somebody fell with the rope into a crevasse, which trapped a whole bunch of other people up there. A couple of people lost their lives. A handful of other people lost, like, limbs because of the frostbite. Took us a few days to get everybody off the mountain back down to Base Camp, and it was, like, a lot of trauma and tragedy that probably shouldn't have happened, but did. And then the weather started getting good again. So they're like, hey, we're going to go attempt K2. So the K2 is so pointy that there's not a lot of places to put tents. And so there wasn't enough people, there's too many people climbing to all go to Camp 1 on the same day. So I was pretty fit coming off of Everest and, like, turning around earlier and coming back down to the camp or whatever. So we've decided that I was going to go a day ahead of everybody and just keep, like, the camps going. And so we're a day ahead. And I get a call on the radio. When you get a call on the radio, you have, like, 15 minutes to call back because you need to get to a safe spot to be able to dial back to Base Camp and give an update of what's going on and what's happening. I get a second call on the radio, and I get a third, and then I get a fourth, all within five minutes. So, like, your brain starts racing. Something's wrong. Because two calls may be an accident. Three calls, I don't know, four calls, definitely not an accident. Like, something's going on. So I hand the radio to the Porters. They talk for a few minutes. They finally handle the call back to me. And in broken English, I find out that Rick, the guy who went down with me, died in an avalanche. One of the other people, like, broke their leg and another person was actually stuck in the territory because they weren't going to be able to send a helicopter there because a helicopter would cause vibrations, which would cause snow to move, which could trigger another avalanche. And so here I'm on the mountain and I have to decide, like, am I going to go continue to climb or am I going to go back down? And, like, in that spot, like, you're. I'm two days from the summit. I've been here forever. This isn't my favorite place in the world to be. Like, I paid a lot of money, my kids are in camp. Like, there's a lot of thoughts running through your mind. And there is a large percentage of me that's like, I think I should just go. Like, the guy already passed away. Like, what are we going to do? Let's just finish this thing and I don't have to come back. And then when someone said my name, like, hey, Jen, our team's going up, your team's going down. You want to go up or do you want to go down? And when I heard it outside of my own head, I was like, man, I need to go down because I have these values. And when you're building a business or starting a family or climbing a mountain or doing whatever, you need to know what your values are before you start. Because summit fever grabs all of us, right? And so summit fever was trying to convince me to go up. But my value said, people over peaks, like, the peak, will always be there. Who you are as a person, that is the only thing that you get to, like, change and be with others on. So that's something you really need to carry very tight to your heart. And when I said people over peaks, like, I gotta go down. So I go down, I bury a human. Whether, you know, we start the 55 mile trek out of base camp, to get to a road, to be able to get to a car, to be able to get to the airport and fly home. And I remember landing in la, there's like a whole bunch of details I'm skipping over because it would be five episodes of a podcast. And I, like, take this deep breath. I'm like, oh, I'm here. Like, if anybody knows lax, that's not a place to be. Like, I'm relaxed, life is good. I'm so glad I'm here. But considering where I was, it was like, I mean, seriously. And so I called the nanny. I'm like, hey, I'm gonna need to take a couple days to digest what just happened before I come home. Because kids sniff fear and kids sniff victim mentality. And I definitely was not through that victim mentality yet. Like, I was like, why this happened to me? What wrong? Blah, blah, blah, blah. So I sat with the stories for A few days, like, rewrote them and process them to get me out of victim mentality, because that's where you have your power. I come home, my kids yell like, mom, mom, did you summit? Yeah. No, I didn't. But I had success. And they're like, what? What are you talking about? And, you know, I went through, like, who we show up as people is way more important than anything we'll ever achieve. And I'm proud of the person I showed up as, so I'm going to consider that a success. But I have to go back. And they're like, okay, so here I am, like, training for this mountain for another year, and I'm bitter. Like, I'm not like, yeah, I got to do this again, right? Like, I'm being real. Like, every time I'm training, I'm like, now I know what I'm getting into. Now I have to pay for all this stuff again. I have to figure out what I'm doing with my kids. Like, all the stories that are just heavy and hard. But three weeks before I left, I got a phone call, and it was somebody that was trying to climb the mountain that didn't quite have the resources to do it and asked if I could bring gear over because it's a lot easier for us to get stuff in the US Than it is for anybody in Pakistan to get anything. So I'm like, yeah, you know what? We have room on our team. Let's figure it out. I'll make some arrangements. So I went back in 2022, became the third American female to stand on top of K2, which was awesome. But even more important, 30 minutes later, the first Pakistani female stood on top of her country's prize peak. Like, the first Muslim female stood on top of this, like, ginormous mountain, declaring to the world, like, hey, this is possible.

That's remarkable.

It's remarkable, right? And, like, I. I know I'm long winded on that story, and I'm sorry, but, like, the reason why I share it is because failure happens to all of us. Frustration happens to all of us. Like, doing things that are hard is kind of our responsibility if we're here on this planet. And when we continue to persist on these pursuits that call our heart forward, the impacts that we can have, we don't get to know. We don't get to know on the front end. We only get to know on the back end. And I promise you, like, that was never in my realm of possibility. And I am not more grateful than any other story in My life, that I get to play a teeny tiny role in that person's story. And I know what it's like because I have twin daughters that are 11. And to know, like when they see me on the mountain, that starts that curiosity thread that we've talked about earlier. And that curiosity thread allows you to start questioning everything. And when you start questioning everything, possibility shows up.

I love it. Problems, present possibilities. I just, I love your outlook on life. And you said something earlier, people over peaks.

Yeah.

That's remarkable because when you told me this story, I was like, there's a very good chance you could have died. You could have went, you could have made one left hand or right hand turn decision and went a different way, up or down, dead. But there was something there. You had an inner calling, a gut instinct. How did you tap into that? How can we tap into that? Because you have values, you live by them. That's not easy. Most of us get distracted by opportunities and possibilities that are money driven or what it might be. How do you listen to your gut and take action based on that?

Yeah.

So I survived this car accident and about two weeks after that car accident, a girlfriend of mine asked me to go running. And I don't go running with her because I'm a fair weather runner, believe it or not. Friends, like, if it's not sunny and 75, I'm not really interested in running. So I said no. And later that evening I got a phone call from her husband that said it was wet, she was running, she slipped on a rock, hit her head and will not be coming home. And so I'm metabolizing this horrific car crash that I survived that does not even make sense. And her doing something healthy that we're encouraged to do and doesn't get to come home. And the only thing that could come out of that for myself was we don't get to choose when we die, but we sure get to choose how we live. And it is our responsibility to make sure that we're really living. Because I believe I'm going to die when it's my time. And whether I'm driving a car down the road or taking a walk or on a mountain, that's not my decision. My decision is how am I leaving impact and helping others because that's the only thing that matters.

It's really freeing. If it sounds to me like you're free, you're not thinking, how do I protect, how do I stop? How do I, like just. You're living your life.

Yeah, like I'm being safe. I'm not being rogue and crazy. Right. Like, when we were on K2, we wouldn't hike during certain times of the day because the sun would come out at a certain angle. And that's when you'd hear all the avalanches. And, you know, like, you were, like, intelligent about it as much as you could be. But there's a. I mean, we're alive. There's a miracle in that. And we're gonna all die, and there's, like, we don't get to pick that date.

Amazing. I love. I honestly love your perspective. I want to. I want to hear about Antarctica, quite selfishly, actually. So we're heading down there in February for the first time, and I'm running a leadership program at Scott Base, which is New Zealand's base.

Yeah.

And very excited about it, but also intrigued. Like, what's it like? What am I going to experience? So you're going. You went down there at the same time that I'm going down?

Yep.

What was it like? What does it look like?

Flying or taking a boat?

We're taking a Hercules. Yes, we'll be flying.

You'll be fine. Okay, so it's like, the flying aspect is crazy. Okay, so we. You're probably flying from South Africa to get over.

No, we're flying. So I live in Christchurch, New Zealand, so we have a U.S. base here, one of the U.S. hercules.

Okay. Okay. Okay. So, like, we had to go from here. We had to go to Punta Arenas, Chile, and we flew, like, a 7, 5, 7 if I. Maybe a 4, 7 if I have the numbers wrong. I apologize, pilots. But whatever airplane we took, it was because it could carry enough fuel to get all the way to where we were landing. And if for some reason a cloud came in or weather turned or whatever else like that, it had enough fuel to get us all the way back to Punta Arenas. Because here's the thing. There's no control tower, right? There's no Runway. There's no, like, lights that say, like, hey, here, you're coming at the right slope. What happens is, is these planes have to judge their depth by their shadow. And so you have to have, like, this perfect weather. And it is like, where we landed is this white desert of nothing. And we had a perfect shadow. The guy lands the plane like, believe me, I'm in worse landings than what we did in Antarctica. And, like, just. That is fascinating. And then what's fascinating about Antarctica, especially where we were, is there's no color, right? Like, there's no green. There's no red, there's no purple. There is white ice, blue ice, blue sky, white cloud, yellow sun. That looks white, I swear down there. And like maybe some rock, like black rock. And that is the only color you see. So you have this color deprivation. You have a scent deprivation because there's no life, there's no bugs, there's no whatever where we were. There's so like there's no, there's no flowers, there's no green, there's no like there's no smell, right. Which is fascinating. There's no color. The only sound is variations of wind or you talking to somebody else.

It's just, it's fat. Like it's so fascinating. And it's crazy because when you come back to civilization, like I remember coming back to Punta Arenas, Chile, which has like a population of five. Okay, so we're like not a ginormous population whatsoever. But they had a stoplight and you were just like, oh my God, that stoplight is so overwhelming. It changes colors and I can't believe the sounds of these cars. And oh my gosh, there's so many smells, my nose doesn't know what to do with them all. And it's just fascinating that like that contrast.

Amazing. And when you got down there, I imagine temperature would have been below zero.

Oh yeah, I was freezing. Like it was freezing. But it's crazy because in this daytime the sun is reflecting off of all these surfaces and it's daytime like most, I mean, you know, it's like you're going during the summer, so it's like the sun just circles you. Like it's 3am and it's still sunny. It's. It's 5pm and it's like the sun doesn't set. The only reasons why it gets really cold sometimes is when you're on the mountains, sometimes the sun is lower than like where that mountain peak is. So then you have a shadow and the temperature difference between the shadow and the sun is mind numbing. Like, it's like you could stand and like you would have frozen nostril hairs here and it'd be totally fine here. There's people who will ski to the South Pole and the side that is in the shadow gets frostbite and the side that's not doesn't.

Wow, it's crazy.

Yeah.

Did you stomach them? Is it tyre down there?

Yeah. So I did Mount Vincent first, which is the highest point. So we did that one because it's a little bit easier than Tyree. And then we went and did Tyre Like, I think we were the 15th through 20 because there's five of us on the team, people to summit this mountain.

Wow.

So it's not like. It's not like you had a whole bunch of beta and notes and whatever else like that. Your GPS doesn't work down there because you're at the South Pole. So, like, the magnetic pieces just don't line up. I mean, it's just. It's a bizarre experience, but it's magic. It's so magic.

I love it. Thanks for sharing that. I really appreciate it. And yeah, the seventh. Did you have an order, a particular order you wanted to do them in, or were you just saying where you could fit things in as you went?

Yeah, you know, like, I was. I did. It was so. You know, I started this when Covid was going on. And so my first mountain was I'm a dumb blonde. And then I did Ojos del Salado in Chile next, because that's what opened. Like no other country was opened. And then I went to Mount Kenya in February because that's what opened next. And then I did Everest, and then I did K2. And then after K2, the first time, which we failed, we were trying to get into Russia to climb this mountain. And it's kind of hard to get into Russia as an American, even back then. Now it's not possible. And we were, like, waiting and waiting, waiting. We finally got permits. We're like, okay, go. I go to this Russia mountain. And it's pretty technical. So I ordered, for example, 20 pairs of gloves and sent 19 pairs back because I'm like, okay, this pair fits the best for dexterity and warmth and all these different pieces. Try tying your shoes with gloves on, right? Like, you need to have certain gloves that allow you to do that and still keep you warm. I land in Russia, none of my gear does, like. It's like, lost in luggage land. And my guide there is like, well, we go now. I'm like, well, my stuff's not here. He's like, you go home, we rent. Or you go home. And I'm like, rent. I like. You don't like. I know. Rental gear. Like, come on, buddy. And he's like, rent. Go home. I'm like, fine, we rent. So we go to this rental store, we rent gear. And at this point, I, like, decided, okay, we're not going to summit. It's fine. We'll just see what happens. I'm going to get Beta on this mountain because there's not much in English on it. It anyways. And I'm just gonna. Whatever. I don't know why the heavens were in my favor, but we summited, which is a really rare mountain to summit because of the location and avalanches and all these things. I come home to the airport, my luggage is there. Finally, I fly home, and six months later, Russia closes. And if I had not been like, we'll just try it and see what happens. And this is an imperfect start, but, hey, whatever happens, happens, I wouldn't have this record. And so, like, I love sharing that story on stages because we all have this idea of how it's going to look, and when it doesn't look like that, we kind of get a little. Well, I don't know, you know? And if I would have done that, like, are you kidding me? I'd have to figure out how to become a national of another country and decide to go over there.

You would have done it. I imagine you would have figured that one out, too.

I know. I'd have been like, okay, let me find some hot Norwegian. Like, let's figure this out.

I love it.

What I hear from that as well is, like, when things get ugly and aren't pretty and aren't perfect, get on with it. Just get on with it. Like, there's no perfect moment is what I'm hearing.

Yeah. No. I literally climbed this mountain in Russia in Scooby Doo underwear because all my stuff was missing. And I went to the store to buy underwear, and the only thing that came close to fitting was, like, little boys underwear. I'm like, oh, my God, this is so embarrassing. I cannot even believe this is my life right now. But here's where we're at, so let's make it happen.

That's brilliant. I love it. You know, that bit's gonna make the sizzle reel for sure. That's awesome.

Thanks.

You rock. And so the last one you summited.

Was Mount Logan in Canada.

How beautiful.

What's the thing about that? Bugger is that took two times two.

Wow. And so which province is Mount Logan?

I flew into Vancouver and then flew into Whitehorse and then went up. It's actually quicker to get to Mount Logan from Alaska.

Wow.

But they won't allow you to land on the glacier from Alaska. You have to land on the glacier from a Canadian area. So that's why we drove up to Whitehorse and then flew a plane and landed on the glacier from there. Wow.

Amazing. And so you go to summit. It's your last one. You're going to be a record holder. And you don't make it the first time. So how are you feeling at this point?

I was so angry because, like, okay, so you know that people over peaks concept. Yeah. It is not easy to live. Okay, like, just telling you right now, if you declare that as one of your values, it's going to, like, poke you and twist you and make you. Like, are you sure? Are you sure? So year one, we're climbing and it's like, we have terrible weather. We're delayed 100 different ways to Sunday. Everything's running behind schedule. And Mount Logan's huge. It's remote. There's not other teams to borrow gear from or to team up on because, like, no one wants to climb it. And it's just this beast. Our guide got sick, so some of the people went down with him so that we could continue to climb. And then we were getting good weather, moved up a load, and then all of a sudden, like, I guess the weather changed and we weren't having good weather. And now it was going to be this timing that was going to make take one of the guides late for his son's kindergarten graduation.

I love your face right now.

Okay? Kindergarten graduation, okay. Your kid eats glue. Let's be honest right now, okay? Like, that's where I'm at. And he's like. And he's like, I need to. I promised my kid I'd be there. Like, Junior doesn't remember this, buddy. Like, we're good. Let's continue. And he's like, no, I promised my kid I'd be there. And I wanted to murder this human. I wanted. Like, I was so, like, you've got to be kidding me. Money, time, all the things again, we're like, only a few days from, like, the top and we're going back because Glue eater is graduating. And you think he's gonna remember? I don't think so. But, like, when you put people over peaks, right? Like, I don't get to decide what is his priority. I have to respect who he is and what's important to him, and he has to respect who I am and what's important to me. And even when I disagree, I have to put that over the peak, which is really hard to do. Like, really, really, really hard to do. So we had to go home and we didn't summit, and I literally got back to Canada. I'm like, I'm gonna find another guide and we're gonna go up there and blah. We just ran out of time. It wasn't gonna happen. I had to wait an entire year to Go back now. That person was not on my team again, but I like, at least respected him at the time.

He was.

That patience of a year. Waiting must have been torture.

It's horrible. It's so bad because your mind tells you it's bad, right? Like your mind tells you, like all these things that you could have been doing or should have been doing or I didn't need to be training anymore. Like, you know, like we have these ideas and they don't always go the way that we planned. The. And then I go back and it wasn't this beautiful, awesome experience. The second time, if I had to be honest, we actually had really good weather. So the second time, like, we were like, oh, my gosh, this is what it's like when it's good weather. Like, this is amazing. We're moving up this mountain fast. Like, things are feeling good, we're feeling good. And there was only three of us the second time, one of my best friends, Ryan, and then our guide, Todd and myself. And the reason why we did three of us is because three of us could sleep in a four man tent. The interesting thing about climbing Mount Logan, which you guys are going to die, that this is how this gets done, is that Mount Logan is like very exposed and windy. So you get dropped off by a plane, you set up your tent, and then you build an igloo. And you build an igloo because you need the igloo to protect the tent walls from ripping because of the wind. So you build this igloo around this tent and then the next day you wake up and you ski up this glacier, which does not have a route, which has not been tested. So you have no clue if it's safe to take a step or not. So every step you take, you have to take a ski pole and go to the left of you, the center view and the right of you. And if it bounces back, you assume you can take one step forward. And then you go, poke, poke, poke. It's two steps forward. Poke, poke, poke. And then you leave bamboo sticks to show where it's safe to go because that's ground that you tested. You go as high as you can and then you stop and you dig a hole and you bury all your stuff in the hole and then you ski down that exact line that you just drew on the way up, because that's the only thing you know it's safe. Like, it could be dangerous. Two feet to either side of this line. You go back to your tent. You go to you like you Boil water, you eat food, you go to bed. The next day, you pack up your tent, you go past the stuff you buried, and you go as high as you can. You set up your tent, you build another igloo, you go to bed, and then the next day, you ski down to where your stuff was buried. You bring your stuff up to where you were, and, like, that's how you move up this mountain, okay? Five of those igloo building things. Five. Like, it's ridiculous. So anyways, we're at Camp 3 and a storm comes in. And the storm comes in for a week, and it dumps snow and all this stuff. So we have to unbury the tent regularly. We have to do all this stuff. And it's miserable and boring. And three people in a tent for a week is. Nobody deserves to be in that situation. And finally, at like 6 o' clock on an evening, it's like, oh, my God, it's sunny. And again, we're so far north that the sun doesn't really set. We're like, we need to go get more food. Because you kind of like, say, okay, I think we're gonna do it in this many days. Let's not bring everything up to the top, because that's just weight. So we're like, okay, we need to go back down and get some of our stuff. So we go back down to get some of our stuff in the evening. So it's sunny, but it's colder. And then it takes us a little bit longer to get back up because again, all of our trail is buried. So now we have to reestablish this trail. We have to unbury the tent that has all of our supply, like, all the things. And on the way back up, Ryan gets frostbite, and it's bad. And so the next day, we can't go for the climb because the weather's too bad and Ryan's injured. The next day, the weather's good enough to rescue Ryan. So they send up a helicopter. They have to long line him off the mountain, which means that we're so high up the helicopter can't land because if it lands, it won't get to take off again because there's not enough oxygen molecules in the air for it to have resistance to take off. So they drop this long line. They drop what they call a screamer suit. So we have to zip Ryan into this suit, and then they, like, zip Ryan off the mountain, like out to base camp where we were originally. That's low enough so they can get Ryan back into the helicopter and fly him to the hospital and do whatever. They can't take us. There's not enough space, and it's not safe for them to rescue us. And we're not covered under Ryan's insurance, so we have to decide what to do. And we're like, okay, well, we're here. We can't do anything else. We're going to go up. So the bummer about Mount Logan is you go from Camp 3 at 16,000ft, you have to go over a bump. 18,100ft. It goes back down to 16,000ft on the other side. So we set up camp, and then you go from there all the way up to 19 something, which is the summit, and come back down. So we summited, but it wasn't like this, you know, like, it was kind of sad without Ryan.

I bet the whole journey that you've shared has been just, like, so many ups and downs, unknowns, things that have tripped you up, ambushes almost. But again, persistence. You kept at it. You didn't let anything stop you. How did it feel when you actually had summited, got back down, got back home and realized you were the first in the world ever to do this?

Yeah.

Okay, so let's bring you to the spot where, you know, I have, like, five more steps and this thing's done. So you almost start going slower because you just want to take it in, right? So, like, you're taking these steps slower. You're looking at everything, you're doing, whatever. And then when you get to the top, you take in, like, the deepest breath you can take in. So you're just like, bring it all into my body. And you close your eyes and everything disappears. There's no sun, there's no sky. There's no mountain. There's no you. There's nothing. There's just this moment of.

Of awe.

And you hold on to that feeling until you have to exhale. And then when you exhale, you kind of like, breathe out and things start to separate and form again. And you take a few more breaths in that moment, and, you know, like, I'm not allowed to stay here, but I touched this void, and I know, like, that, like, this is the moment, right? So, like, it's almost like you tell your soul, okay, I'm gonna throw you out into this universe again, and I'm gonna find you, and I can't wait till I do. And then you start down the mountain, and that's when you really realize, like, life is the journey we want, the climb we want to be tested and tried and figure out where our breaking points are and to like, have that full spectrum of life. Because that's how we get to those moments of awe. And they're not meant to be lived in, they're meant to be experienced. So you get the taste. So you'll go after it again.

I love that. I really love that. It's incredible because I do believe we all want permanent happiness. Permanent awe struckness. Actually, that's not possible. It's in the pursuit of difficult things, in the pursuit of these big moments, that we get that satisfaction for a little fleeting moment.

Yeah, yeah. And that fleeting moment is just like, that's life. Like, that's life in all of its compass. Yeah. It's just magic. And so, of course, I'm feeling pretty good about myself. I'm not gonna lie. Like, I'm like, I am a cool mom. Like, this is awesome. Blah, blah, blah, blah. I fly home to Salt Lake City because I live in Park City, Utah, and I'd been on an airplane for quite a while, but my kids meet me at the airport. So I'm like giving them high fives and hugging and feeling like a million dollars. And my little guy gives me a hug. He's like, good job, Mom. I'm like, thanks, honey. He goes, mom, you have bad breath, dude. I was on an airplane for hours. Yes, I do have bad breath. Thank you very much. Thanks for deflating my ego. I'm just the mom. Nbd. Let's continue.

Welcome home.

Welcome home.

That's incredible, kids. Just say it best. Oh, my goodness. Well, I think your journey is phenomenal. From the car crash and then that epiphany to go, I need to do something. You did it. You followed through. There were moments when you could have quit on yourself, but you didn't quit on yourself. That's an inspiration to us all. You went on to write a book, Break Proof, and it's strategies for life, for work, for business. I'm going to put the link in the show notes so that everyone can go and get a copy of that today. If there's one message from that book that you think is really important for the listener to grab onto, what is it that.

Yeah.

Being kind to ourselves makes us stronger. I think we get into these hard situations and then we get hard on ourselves, right? And we're like, why are we doing this better? Or why aren't we there yet? Or what's like, why am I short? Or what's wrong with me? Or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, that hard moment is a pause. It's a chance to see, where can I soften? What can I learn? Wow, I'm so proud that I got here and I can continue. And in that softening, you get to figure out what the next move is. Because if you force it and you just make it hard, even if you succeed, it's just not as rewarding.

I love it. Great advice. And just before we part ways, a couple of things. I'm going to put all of your socials down in the show notes so people can follow your journey because you're incredibly inspiring. They need to buy your book and need to get a copy for a friend because it's one of those things that we need to understand that we are going to hit our ambushes, we are going to be tripped up. But actually on the other side of that, there's potential, there's possibilities, and there's exciting things to achieve. So thank you for it all. And I want, for a moment just to pretend that you're fast forwarding into the future. Many, many years into the future. You're highly aware that it's your last day here on Earth and someone very young that you love walks into the room and says, jen, how do I go about leading my life on purpose? What would you say to them?

Yeah, I would say lean in to what's fun. Like, we make life hard and serious and it comes at us full force. It's our job to make it fun. Like, when you know you're going to get to the top of the mountain, you don't stress about getting to the top of the mountain anymore. You stress about, like, how do I make this enjoyable? How do I have a good time? How do I impact others? So for the younger versions of ourselves, have fun. Like, enjoy this gift of life and understand it's all going to work out.

Such great advice. And there's someone that's maybe not so young listening or watching right now that needed to hear that. So thank you so much.

Yeah. And I have one more thing for you all. So I. When I'm on podcasts, I love to give the listeners a video that I have from Everest Base Camp. So we have this video where the Milky Way galaxy is going over Everspace Camp. And I tell you, it's the most beautiful imagery ever. And it just reminds you how big this world is and how fun it is and how many options we have. And it's ours to create. So if you would like to have that video on your phone to just ground you when life gets hard. Text the word Everest to 33-777-AND you'll get it on your phone. You'll be able to keep it and use it for your good.

Amazing. And will that text code work internationally?

Oh, shoot. I don't know.

If it doesn't, we'll work out a plan somehow and get an email or something. We can. We'll work out something.

I apologize, I don't even know. We'll have to check.

But for our North American listeners and viewers, you can do that right away. For everybody else, we'll check and we'll put something in the show notes. That's so amazing. Thank you for sharing it.

Yeah, thank you.

And we'll look forward to getting you on the show one day again soon. The Lead on Purpose podcast is sponsored by NZ Mortgages. Learn more at nzmortgages.co nz.

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