We quit alcohol and it changed our lives BONUS

I'd like to ship you a free copy of my book, Habits of High Performers. If you come and join the 2026 goal setting workshop, I will ship you one of these today. The link is in the notes. Please come and join me to set up the very best 2026 you could imagine. If you've set up goals in the past or New Year's resolutions and they haven't substantiated, I'm here to help you across all the key pillars of your life nail your goals. I'll see you there.

James, welcome to the Lead On Purpose podcast.

This feels a bit weird that you're welcoming me to my own podcast, but I like it. Where are we going to go with this?

Today we're doing a special episode. It is our five year sober anniversary, slash alcohol free. Depends however you identify.

Congratulations. Five years sober.

That's not nothing.

That is not nothing.

So, yeah, this is a bonus episode and we're just going to talk about. Obviously I'm Caroline, not obviously my beautiful.

Partner for those that haven't met Caroline before. And she also runs the podcast.

James and I got sober in 2020 in the middle of lockdown when things were chaotic and we just wanted to reflect on the last five years. Because today is five years. Yeah.

And this is for people that enjoy a drink. We are not here to preach to you. We're not here to tell you you're doing wrong. We're just here to tell you what our experience was with alcohol and how our relationship shifted and what that's change in our lives. And I guess for me, I drank often, so say anywhere between three to five nights a week. Could be anywhere from one beer or wine to several beers or wines. In my younger years, like in my teens and early twenties, I drunk till blackout and don't remember many of the things. Like it was just crazy drunk when I was a really young kid. What about you?

Yeah, I mean, not as a teen, but from. Probably.

In and out of drinking from 17, nothing crazy. But then when I moved to New Zealand, it got a bit. A bit crazy and then it just, it just took off from there. The binging? Yeah, probably a bit more than two to three, five times a week. Probably at its worst. Two bottles of wine at night, which is quite a lot now, is like crazy to think but for some people that's normal and they think that's normal and that's reality and certainly for me it was, it was a coping mechanism for me.

So yeah, it's interesting you say that. Yeah, it definitely Is. And I think I want to reinforce again, we're not here to shame anyone and make anyone feel bad for drinking.

And I think a lot of people are curious about people who are sober or alcohol free. And a lot of people think the people who are sober have a massive drinking problem. They think, you know, I woke up and had a shot of vodka, put a whiskey in my coffee. I didn't do any of that. Likewise, I was high functioning. I kept getting promoted at work. I had friendships, like, I was doing pretty well if you looked at my life.

But from the outside.

From the outside. But then, you know, like, the minute work finished, I worked hospitality. So the culture really helped me drink. The minute work finished, it was like game on.

Which wine, what else was your favorite? Gin?

Tequila.

Tequila.

Loved a tequila. Yeah. So it's just, it might not look like you're an alcoholic. And I don't think I go around saying, oh, I'm an alcoholic. But I think if you measured the amount of alcohol that was taken in by both of us, scientists or doctors might be like, you have a drinking.

Problem, you've got a problem. Yeah.

Which I think most people don't realize they might actually have a weird relationship with alcohol. That need, they need to just look at.

And nobody wants to say, I've got a problem. I've got friends and clients who go, james, I don't have a drinking problem, but I drink like four nights a week, sometimes five. But I don't drink on, you know, a Monday or something. Like, well, I don't know if that's completely normal or James, I'm like thinking about, you know, on a Tuesday afternoon, like, I just can't wait to knock off work and go for a beer or meet the client.

And yeah, that's like, it's the reward, isn't it? And that was ours.

Yeah.

When we first got together, we literally got together and we were thrown into lockdown within weeks. And it was, it was chaos. Like, it was mental. And our reward at the end of the day was a drink. When we didn't have Finney, he was with his mum, we would have a drink and we wouldn't just have a drink, it would be. We would consume.

Yeah. It was an interesting and weird time, as you all can relate.

Yeah. And I think most people drank a little bit more in Covid.

Well, some people didn't at all.

Some people like us did eventually struck because you were confronted with what you were doing. Yeah.

And I guess to relate to the person that's listening right now. I used it a lot for two things. Reward, but also stress relief. And so often during the busier times of my life, whether I was competing as a drummer, whether there was new things that changed in my life or a lot of stress, I would cope with drinking alcohol.

Yeah, I used it.

A reward. Socializing. Socializing, I always thought came naturally to me. It doesn't with one person, two people, three max. I'm okay. I'm comfortable. But the minute it's a group setting, I'm out of my depth and I'm nervous. So alcohol definitely helped. And then I was like the laughing one and the one who's having all the fun. So I would definitely use it to be able to be comfortable around people.

And socialize and then also just avoid what was wrong. All the things that I wasn't confronting in my life, I guess. So that's definitely what I used it for.

And likewise, for sure. And I think, you know, in perspective. When Covid hit lockdown, hit. Carolina had just started dating weeks prior. So we're now in this new relationship. My business at the time was just taking off. Covid made it go nuts in terms of leadership development. One to one coaching, helping people through the really difficult stuff and working on the mindset. It just went insane. So I was busier than.

We didn't anticipate that.

No, not at all.

We were like, ooh, lockdown, new relation. No, it was not that.

Not at all. And so in the evenings, that's how we connected was like we started with a bottle of red.

Yeah.

And then Game of Thrones. I never watched it before. So we're watching that.

Game of Thrones. Yeah. I felt like Tyrion Lannister. We would drink red wine out of goblets. Goblets.

And it was almost like, I guess with alcohol you pair it with like experiences. Music, smell. So like, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. As soon as that started, it's like wine time.

Yeah. I would do a little fairy dance around the room. Like wild times.

We're strange people, folks.

But yeah. And also from my perspective, in lockdown, I was late 20s, late 20s, never had a child before. And all of a sudden I knew Finn. But we were in lockdown and I had a 3 year old and Finn was not. I'm a calm 3 year old. I don't think many are. He was. I've got the energy of 10 children in my body. Let's go. So navigating that while a new being in a new relationship and James being busier than ever, that the end of the day was like, I need wine, because I had no other way of coping.

Totally. And I guess most of us always look for coping mechanisms. Everyone does.

Yeah.

And I guess what we're going to look at in a second is that how life has changed and the benefits to you. If you're thinking about changing your relationship with alcohol, we're just going to share what happened to us. We're going to share a few of the stats that we've came across as well that helped to solidify that decision. And I'll be totally honest with you right now, I was not the one who came up with the idea of let's get sober. Let's. I wasn't the one that drove that. What happened? You were on, like, a run or something?

Yeah, I just. I went on a run because I was. I felt like I was losing my mind. And I listened to Rich Roll, and he did a podcast with, I think it was some guy from one year, Novia.

Rory. Rory Fairburn.

Yeah. And they were speaking about it, and I'd read Rich Roll's book. He has a book?

Yeah. By the way, folks, if you don't know who Rich Roll is, he runs an awesome podcast.

I'm pretty sure he has a book, but I read some book.

Two or three books.

Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, he's this amazing runner, and he's sober. And I just thought the scariest thing to me would be giving up alcohol for a year. And I thought, there's no way in hell I can do that. And then I thought, I have to do that.

And then you told me.

And then I came home and I was sweating, panting, and I said to James, I'm stopping alcohol one year. That's it. And he was like, no, my birthday is coming up. I'm not.

Good luck.

You're on your own. And then I slapped on it the next day. He was like, oh. And he had the same thought process that I did. Like, why was I so against that?

Yeah, should have been. It should have been leaning in with curiosity and encouraging it. But right away, I was like, whoa, you're leaving the tribe? Like, this is our little tribe.

We drink together.

That's how we bond.

Like, yeah, like, what else would we do over weekends and evenings? And how boring.

Like, I hear clients talk about this client who give up alcohol. They. Their partner at home, wife or husband. It's like, oh, come on, please just have a one. And that's, like, so unfortunate. And I was in that.

But it. But I understand it because it's scary to confront and it's scary to lose, to think you might be losing someone. Because the minute you stop drinking, like maybe we can talk about before and after your. If we start with your. Like your mental health and your mood. Yeah, when you were drinking versus what it is now.

Hey, James here. I wanted to take a quick moment to let you know about something. Look, I get asked to deliver keynotes and workshops for teams and companies all over the world, from London to Antarctica, from America to Australasia, from armies to small businesses to large corporates to sports teams. But I go in and deliver keynotes around the mindset of high performers, around the habits of high performers, about how we navigate change. If you would like me to come and speak to your team or speak at your conference or deliver a bespoke workshop, please get in touch with my team. Carolinejlochlan.com will be able to help. I'll also make sure that we put that in the show notes.

For me. So mental health and mood. I would say lower energy. Certainly people wouldn't have seen this in me, but more anxiety, more stressing and ruminating on things.

Versus now.

Next to no anxiety. The only time I get anxiety is if I mistakenly have two coffees.

Oh my God.

Like by like 6pM that night. I'm a mess. But yeah, my mental health, I feel, is 3pM I feel like I'm in a much better place. I have a clearer way of processing my emotions and thoughts. Generally a higher energy as well. What about you?

Yeah, yeah, my mental health, it's like night and day pretty much. I think when I was drinking it was avoiding a lot. So it's sort of like. I think a lot of people think you quit alcohol. And this is the truth. For some people, you quit alcohol. Your mood is only up from there. For me, it was quit alcohol. A little peek, like, oh, look at me doing something cool. And then a massive dip. And it was like, I need therapy now. Like, who am I? What is the. Like, what is the meaning of the world? All these questions I'd asked since being a little kid, like, why are we here? What are we meant to do? They all came back with vengeance. And it was like.

So my mood sort of dipped a little. And I'm not trying to put anyone off, but I needed to do that and figure it out. And then it's just, it's gone uphill from there. Like, I'm in a much better place. Definitely when I was drinking, the anxiety the next morning. Anyone if you know Me and you're listening. There are a few people who I would call or text the next day and be like, what did I do? Who have I heard? Even if I can remember everything, I am convinced I've done something to hurt someone. So that was wild. And that's not there anymore. And like in your recent episode with Patagawa, he speaks about when he gave up, how he had phantom hangovers. Yeah. And I thought, wow, that's the best way to describe it, because they have still, even now, there are mornings where I might wake up and go, how did I get here? And then I'll just sit up and go, oh, my gosh, it's been. It's been four and a half years. You put yourself in bed, you're fine. So it is. It's night and day.

Yeah. I think everyone is different. Like, you had that dip and. Whereas I feel I didn't. And I think everyone will experience it differently. I think just be prepared for it to be uncomfortable. Be prepared for things to come up that you maybe haven't expected to deal with.

Yeah.

But I do think for everyone, it's going to be a unique experience. And some people will need therapy, some people will need to go to aa, some people won't. But do what you need to do and take the first step.

Yeah. And don't be scared to ask for help. Like, there's no shame in it at all.

100%. And I think we should be honest. So I slept on it. You were like, I'm going to go off alcohol for a year. I slept on it, woke up next day. I said, look, I'm going to join you. However, we've got, like a full bottle of red and I think we had half a bottle of gin.

That's not true.

He's a liar. We had a bottle of red. We had, I think, two bottles of gin and a bottle of champagne. Okay. In the cupboard. And James said for us to quit alcohol, we have to drink all of this. So I don't know if we. Well, we didn't drink all of it. We ended up giving most of it, like, gifting it outside people's houses that we knew, obviously.

But we did go hard that way.

We went hard and it was painful.

And the next day, when we started our day one, we were very hungover.

I was hungover for, like, four days.

I think it was a good way to start. A bit of leverage, you know, a bit of pain. Reminder.

The only way James knows is. James knows is the extreme way.

Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

Yeah. So yeah, you. I brought that up because you said you have clients or people you know, and then their partner's like, no, don't leave the tribe. But because you make the shift from this is what I'm in to, this is who I am now, you do become a different person. And that is scary, too, for some people. They don't want to change because change is. We're trying to avoid it, but it's the only thing that's certain. So you might as well lead the change rather than letting alcohol change you and make you sick.

Yeah. At the end of the day, like, life is changing every second of every day. The only kind of constant in life is change right from the moment you're born. Like, every moment is different. Every second is different than the one before and the one after. So I think just embracing the fact that will be change will be challenging, but the other side of it's pretty amazing.

Yeah. Yeah. And I've also heard people say before when they've given up that they.

Did, they were so reluctant to stop because. And this isn't us preaching to you to stop at all. Just if you've had these thoughts, you're not alone. Like, other people are thinking them. They now have. This person doesn't drink anymore. But they said when, before, they gave up. I didn't want to stop drinking because it was the only thing that I had that was always there for me. Like, my relationship ended. It was there for me. The earthquakes, alcohol, you know, lost a job, alcohol. But in that process of picking alcohol, you actually end up abandoning yourself. Like, you're picking. You're giving control over to something that isn't you. And that's. I think that was the biggest thing for me, was taking back control 100%.

And the thing you shared with me that really sat with me was like, okay, let's pretend alcohol is a person and you're in a relationship with this person, and their name is Alcohol. So this person is poisoning you on a daily basis. This person affects your physical health because you're putting on weight and your organs are getting smashed. You're going to die younger. This person is going to help you die younger. This person's helping you go broke or.

At least stealing your money.

Stealing your money, for sure. This person is making you more promiscuous, potentially. Or making poor decisions when you're inebriated.

Yeah.

If this was a person, a real person, it would be called an abusive relationship. So would you stay in that relationship? Most likely not.

And people would encourage you to get out.

But this is the one relationship where people don't encourage you to get out.

Yeah. And it's the one addiction. Well, one of a few that are, like, people don't look at it as an addiction, but it's the one that people try and tell you not to stop.

If I was doing crack cocaine, and I was.

Yeah. If you're only two to three nights a week, only two to three lines, like, people would be like, what is wrong with you? You can't function.

Yeah. And then Jimmy goes, hey, I've stopped taking crack cocaine. Everyone would be like, celebrating for me.

Right, exactly. And they'd be like, let's keep you clean. Even weed. Yeah. People would be like, jesus, James, you gotta. You gotta. You gotta stop.

By the way, folks, I don't do any of these things.

He doesn't. But yeah, people like, they. They frown upon those things, but they are no worse. Like, I mean, they're all poisons, right? They're all. They're all doing. They changing your state.

Yeah.

So, yeah, what else have you got.

In there for me?

Okay, you spoke about weight, so I want you to speak about your body. What is it like now versus what it was like back when you were drinking?

Okay, first up, I do not have a rock star's body. Like, I'm not at the gym every five minutes. I'm going to say it's not perfect. Okay, let's start with that. But I look back at a photo when Finn was about 1 and I was holding him and I looked just pudgy and bloated and I. Yeah, I look puffy. I look. It's awful. Like, it's not awful, but I look back and I say that that's an unhealthy version of me.

Yeah.

Whereas now I feel unpuffy. And I actually like my body. Yeah, it moves the way I want it to move. And, yeah, if you go down to kgs, I'm maybe like 6 to 8 kgs lighter than I was when I was drinking alcohol. Maybe even a bit more, to be fair. What about you?

Yeah, my body's definitely a lot, lot less puffy. Like, if I look back on photos and you don't see it when you're in it.

But, yeah, there's a massive difference. And it feels better. It moves better.

Like, yeah, everything, my stomach, digestive health, all of it is much better than it used to be. And I'm probably Now, like, also 67 kilograms, probably more, because I wasn't weighing myself and I was drinking that much.

Yeah. I'm in a much better space physically. And I know weight is a big thing that comes up with your clients a lot.

A lot of men tend to say they can't lose. And I know it does get tricky as you age. Like, I think it's after 35 or somewhere around there for men. As you get older, it gets harder to lose the weight. Also for women.

But these people, like, what are they? The one habit they don't want to stop. When you say, oh, have you tried? Is alcohol always.

They're always resistant. No, but I do business, and that's how we kind of socialize. That's how we entertain clients, and that's how I unwind, whatever it might be.

Yeah. So I've just got a little bit of science when it comes to weight loss. And I obviously, we're bringing it up. It's like, it's a vanity thing. It's also a health thing. But it's often a thing that when people. You can't see your organs getting cleaner or getting healthier, maybe you can feel healthier, but you can't actually see them purifying. But you can see yourself losing weight and other people can see you losing weight. So when that happens, you get like, oh, looking really good today, Phil. You know what I mean? So it's often a really good way for people to motivate themselves. With alcohol, it's like, oh, look, look how I look. This is working. I'm feeling good. So with alcohol, just simply like, they are calories, we all know. Calories in, calories out. There's all the science behind it. Alcohol, you have seven calories per gram of alcohol. When it comes to carbs and protein, that's only 4 calories per gram. So there's a bit of a difference there. It's nearly double the amount of calories for the same amount. The difference comes in with alcohol. When you drink it, your body signals it as a toxin and it goes, we've got to get this out. So if you have been eating really healthy and you're exercising, you're trying to lose weight, the minute you put alcohol in your body pauses the weight loss from the fat stores in your body. It goes, no, we're not going to burn that. First we have to get rid of this toxin so it starts to burn the alcohol off. And if you're drinking like most people, they say, I drink two to three drinks a week. Two to three drinks, two to three nights a week. So that is. I've worked it out. It's like A thousand two hundred and thirty three calories. Your body can't burn any fat from itself until it's burnt all those calories. And it takes a lot to burn those calories.

What would that be roughly? If I wanted to burn 1,200ish calories off, what am I needing to do to do that? Roughly?

Okay, it's. So it varies, it depends from people's body weight and height and height and their fitness levels and all those things. But if you do like a 25 minute hit workout, for most the average person, you're gonna burn like 300 calories.

Okay. So I'm like several intense workouts just to burn the alcohol calories off.

And now you've got to get back to then burning your fat off.

Right. So I said, get a loss leader. I'm not probably going to be burning much.

No. And the, the tricky part comes in is when you're drinking alcohol, you release more of the ghrelin hormone, which is your hunger hormone, which then your body goes, I need to eat. That's why when you've had a few, like even just two drinks, I'm like, where's a bag of crisps?

Yeah.

You want the fatty foods, you want the salty foods. So this is, I mean, it also messes with your sleep, which then raises cortisol and stress and that makes you store more fat. So it's sort of a losing battle. When you're younger, you can have a six pack and drink and be fine. But it catches.

Yeah. Metabolism changes.

It all adds up in the end. So if that helps you at all, I'm happy. Because, you know, some people just need to know that they're going to see the changes.

Yeah.

And that actually helps most people stay committed.

Yeah. I think that helped me initially as well. Like I wrote down, why am I even doing this? I wrote like, I would advise anybody who wants to change their relationship with alcohol to write down why. So, like one of the reasons why I wanted to have a body that I actually liked. That was the first one. And then I was like, okay, it needs to be more than that.

Yeah.

Just be vanity. Okay. I want to have a longer life so I can be. Maybe if Finn wants to be a dad one day, I could be a granddad. I want to have a long mobility life. So I'm actually healthy. Like a health span rather than just lifespan.

Yeah.

So that when you and I are retired, like we're still active, we can.

Actually walk the hills and.

Yeah.

Do things you want to do. Like most people say I'll do that when I'm retired. But then they get there and they are sick. Their bodies don't work like they used to.

So write out your why, why are you doing it? And many, not just the vanity stuff, but as many wise.

Yeah. And the, the, like the vanity metrics played a massive role for me too. Like my skin was clearer, I had more color in my face. I did lose weight and people did say, you're looking good, what are you doing? And that feels good. Like as, as much as all of us want to go, I don't care what people think. Most of us do, of course. And we, we all do have a bit of ego in us. So it's nice to get those compliments 100%. That's just a bit of science for you.

Love it.

I do have a little fun segment.

Okay, what's your fun segment?

So it's called Two Truths and one Lie.

Two truths and one lie.

And it is the alcohol edition. So it's three things people have done, Right? It's going to be. I'm going to give you three things people have done whilst drunk. One of them is a lie.

I have to guess the lie.

You guess the lie to our truths. Okay, okay, hit me up. So the first one, man from New Zealand ran out of money in the middle of a binge drink drinking binge and sold his car for $800 to keep going. He then reported it stolen afterwards because he forgot that he had done that and it was weird. Second one man ends up with a criminal record after in Boston after being caught fishing from his boat while drunk. He wasn't given the criminal record for fishing while drunk. He caught 122 sea bass and you can legally only catch eight at one time. Most people struggle to catch one. This man caught 122.

Okay, pretty impressive.

He had to give them back the rest. He had to. Well, he could. They were dead. He had to donate them. I don't know. And then the third story man broke into an IKEA store to make his DIY dream come true whilst drunk. He then proceeded to fall asleep in a display bed only to be awoken at 7am by security. So you've got selling a car, catching way too many fish and sleeping in Ikea, selling your car. No, that's true.

What?

Someone did that.

I forgot they did it.

The man in Rotorua in 2017.

Are you serious?

Yeah.

Which one was the fake one?

The IKEA one. Oh my God. Yeah, that's how funny.

Thank you for that.

I Know, I just. Those sort of stories are so funny. God, that's funny. Obviously, we don't recommend you do any of those.

No, please don't do that.

But if you have. If you want to send us an.

Email, I'd love to know what silly stuff you've done. I've done so many silly things.

Oh, my God. Do you care to share a story?

Got so many stories. Most of them I don't remember. I've been told about them. But, yeah, I went missing one night. I think I was 17.

That's scary.

Yeah. Went missing and there was like a search party looking for me. Mom, I hope you don't listen to this because you don't know about this story. Dad knows about this one. So. Yeah, went missing and they thought I maybe fell in the river. And I was very drunk and they were very worried.

Yeah.

And they got back up home and there was like a truck close to the house and I was lying underneath the truck with one shoe on. My white shirt had been ripped open. I have no idea.

Yeah. Your sister. His sister has told me that he was always the kid who would wake up with one shoe after a night of drinking. That was his thing. Lose a shoe.

How do you do that? I do not know.

Why do you do that?

I have no idea. I don't do it anymore, thankfully. But yeah. Goodness. So many ridiculous moments. And then buying stuff online, like books and flights. Oh, my. Digital things, like. Yeah, just silly flights. Yes.

Where do Norway.

As you do. Moving on.

Yeah. I remember one night I. Pink gin was a new thing, you know. Pink gin?

Yes.

So I had a bottle. I didn't drink the whole bottle, but I had a bottle. And I was just sitting at the kitchen table and I just. Just. I was alone and I just decided I'm gonna do shots of pink gin, because why not? And I got on the laptop and I was taking a shot. And obviously then as the night went on, my memory fades, but I did wake up having ordered 10 books on.

Buddhism.

Pink Jin and Buddhism. Strong connection there.

Yeah.

How many of those books did you read?

I have not read one. I think I gave most of them away. Don't know why. Don't know what the connection is. I haven't delved into it at all.

300 bucks on books or something like that?

No, actually, it wasn't that expensive, but. And much cheaper than flights to Norway.

Yeah.

Oh, gosh. Okay. And to finish, I just thought we could not too in depth, but just briefly talk about your biggest challenge over the last five Years before we do that.

Can I get my phone and go to the. It's called a sobriety counter.

Yeah.

And share the dollars. Is that okay?

Yeah. I don't. I. We. So we both got this app when we stopped drinking, but we.

And we both put in how much? Roughly we drink and we drunk. Roughly drunk the same amount. And I yield a bit less maybe or a bit more at the time. I don't know. There are thereabouts. Anyway, here we go. I'll lift it up. I don't know if you guys who are watching can see that on the screen, but I have saved $51,904 based on the average amount that I was drinking. That's over a five year period. Quite.

Yeah.

Unbelievable.

So sorry. Just in that in. That is not just alcohol. It is. When you're drinking you tend to eat out more. It's all of that factored in. This app like makes you slot in how much you would spend on all this.

$50,000. You were something similar. So over a five year period, $100,000. I mean it's not just some change. It's a fair few. Few dollars. So yes. I think about is just how much you're spending and what silly flight you might be booking after too many.

And that might seem extreme, but if you go.

And do the math, you might be pretty close.

Your drinks, your Ubers, the food, the entertainment. Shouting other people drinks. Because you've had a few drinks.

You always shout people drinks. This one's on me. That was your thing.

Always. I couldn't stop. Yeah, I know. I'm happy to show people peppermint teas all day long.

That's great. Sorry.

So I just wanted to.

Yeah, no, I think it's good. And I think money is also a massive thing for people. Like just as weight is, finances also motivate people.

Yeah.

So it's about finding.

Not just. Not many people have the willpower to just quit something and stop. It's about finding the things that are going to keep you going. So for us it was the physical health, but also the finance. Looking at what we could do with that money instead of drinking it away.

Yeah. What can we do with $100,000? So much, you know, that's a big difference.

How many fights to Norway?

Yeah, exactly. There's quite a few.

Okay, so what has been one of your biggest challenges over the last five years when it comes to alcohol, if you've had any?

It was more so in the earlier phases of it. I really struggled because when we Committed to going alcohol free. And for whatever reason, I like to say alcohol free rather than sober. Everyone's different. But that works for me. So I was a bit worried because about two or three months after the day we committed to stop drinking, I was hosting former prime minister in Queenstown with a bunch of my clients. We're getting helicopters, we're landing on the snow, having champagne. Like, all the stuff was connected around.

I remember you being like, I can't give that up.

Yeah, I was worried about that.

Yeah.

Like, my clients and this prime minister will all want to celebrate, and there is going to be champagne. And so there was these moments like birthdays and celebrations and hanging out with clients. And they all knew me as Irish James. And the guy that's a lot of fun to be around when he has a few drinks. So I think there's an identity challenge for me that I'd identified as someone who drank.

Yeah.

And so that.

Who am I without it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I thought maybe I'm not as fun or maybe I'm not as appealing to be around or to work with. And obviously, I find the opposite to be true. And that's been confirmed through people.

Yeah. Business has been better.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that was the biggest challenge in the first part. And I'll be honest, I don't have any challenges with it now. I love not drinking.

No, I don't have challenges now either, if I'm honest. But definitely initially.

It was the social occasions. And I think for me, it's different socially. Like, if James is with a group of people, he's able to just engage and just be with them, be present and be part of a conversation with many people. I didn't know I wasn't comfortable with that, but I'm not. And I only figured that out when I stopped drinking because alcohol just made me. Yeah, you just lose all, which seems.

Good at the time.

Yeah. And it made socializing easier, for sure. But, yeah, I very much am. I like to be alone, which is great. And I still have connection in my.

Life, but you choose it where you want it.

I'm. Yeah. And I'm. I think the biggest shift for me and the biggest challenge was learning. I think I was avoiding being alone. So alcohol was there to numb that. But then quitting, I realized, actually, I want to be alone. I just need to learn how to be comfortable and it's not scary to be alone. I think we're all always told you should be social, which we need it. Like, we're tribal. But it's okay. To be an introvert.

Yeah.

Want to be alone. So I think that was big for me.

That's huge.

Yeah.

But then to be fair, you run an event every year with anywhere between three to five hundred people at it. You run it, you do all the logistics on the day you're dealing with those 500 people.

Yeah.

So you can still perform 100.

Like if it's. If I have a role and something to do. Happy days. And I can turn that on too. If I need to come across as extroverted, I can do that.

Yep.

But for the most part, it was just learning how to actually accept that that's not who I am. Which, I mean. Happy now? What is your. You know, people talk about the life changing gift of being sober. How has it changed your life and why? Why is it a gift?

Look, for me, I just love being able to wake up knowing that I will be healthy, I'll be energetic, I won't feel like sick or nauseous. That to me is such a gift because, like, one of the whys I wrote down, I want to be a present father who's always there and fully engaged and a present partner. And I feel like that's happened and that's such a gift and that compounds year after year after year. So I think not drinking alcohol has multiplied how much I love my life.

Yeah.

And it has.

Yeah.

I'm really grateful and I spend it every, every morning thinking about what I'm grateful for. But also, like, I'm passionate about my work and I know a lot of you guys and girls that listen like, you love your careers and work. So it's helped on that front too. Like it's thriving.

Yeah. Yeah. Everything feels a little bit easier.

Yeah.

Initially, I think just knowing that I will always be me and that, I mean, that sounds captain obvious over here, but I'm always going to show up as me and it's not going to be a different version of myself who I'm not in control of. I think having control is. I know we're not meant to want to control everything in life, but knowing that something isn't controlling me has been massive.

Yeah.

I'm really grateful that also in our relationship, like, I know who I'm getting when you walk through the door and James travels for work and I'm not worried about him coming up and having weird conversations. Like, you're always a little bit like looser when you're drinking or certainly that was my experience. So I don't. We don't have that worry.

Yeah, I think it's just a consistency.

Of like, yeah, I know who you are. Yeah, yeah, you're going to. This is who you're going to be 100%.

Because often when people drink, they just do change a bit. They get a little like more disciplined or a little less disciplined, a little easier going or a little more uptight.

It's sort of heightened certain parts of your personality. Yeah.

And if you're triggered or someone challenges you on something, it can be like a heightened response. And I agree. Like, I know exactly what Caroline I'm going to be dealing with now.

And it's.

Yeah, I love it.

Yeah, I like that consistency. That's been big for me, by the way.

Can I just say, as we, you know, get towards wrapping up. But Caroline's awesome. I should just hand the shoe over to her more often.

I'll take it. It's my time. No.

One thing that you want people to know about sobriety, I think this is just. Just to shine a light. Like most people. A lot of the people that I know that I probably don't socialize with anymore. When I stopped drinking, it was how boring. What do you even do? I go to bed at 8:30. What do you do? Genuinely, I go to bed at 8:30. But like, life isn't. It's so hard to think about when you're drinking and socializing and using it, to think that life gets better without it. But it gen. It genuinely does. Like, it's. It's tricky, but the minute you are out of that murkiness, it just is. There's more color to it.

100.

That's the only way I can describe it. It's not gray.

Yeah. 100% agree.

Yeah. Yeah.

I think for me, when I look at it, you've got the choice of drinking, and that's an absolute choice. And there's a choice of not drinking and not drinking. That choice is hard. Right. So saying no, that's hard. You want it, you think you deserve it. It relaxes you. You want to connect. You want to not have all this beer pressure and people kind of criticizing you because you're not drinking. So that's hard. Right. And then you have to. Instead, then let's say you do have the drink in the short term, that's really easy. Let's say you have your ninth drink or your sixth drink and you start falling over or making silly decisions or spending money you don't have. Then you fast forward five years and all of a sudden you're a bit overweight. Or your mental health is depressant after all. Right. People who take antidepressants and take alcohol, you got to look at that because they're counterbalancing each other, right? So then you fast forward 20, 30 years and all of a sudden you've got maybe liver issues. That's hard as well. And what I'm going to suggest is choose your hard. What's going to be hard for you? You make a choice. Both are hard. Choose your hard by not drinking. That's hard in the short term. It's beautiful in the long term. The highest performers I've ever met, sat down with, worked with all are about delayed gratification, doing the hard thing today so that in the long run you get the amazing rewards. So I think that's what we're talking about. It's not easy.

Yeah. And if you are still watching or listening, you might be curious about it because I feel like if I had no interest in quitting or at least stopping or exploring my relationship with alcohol, I wouldn't still be watching. So if you are, maybe give yourself a challenge of seven days. The Spencer Matthews, who some of you might know from Made in Chelsea Reality Clean Co, he's got a couple podcasts. He's an ultra. He said again, it's world record ultra marathon runner. He said if you. I remember in an interview he did with his therapist about him getting sober.

If someone says to you quit for seven days and the thought of that is terrifying, maybe quit for seven days, maybe that's what you need to be doing. You know, you're meant to be stepping into what makes you uncomfortable. Try it for seven days. The whole idea around the challenge we did one year no beer was not to make you quit for life. It's to change your relationship with it. So a lot of people finish it and then they go and they can dip in and social occasions have a champagne to celebrate. I'm not that person. I am quite extreme. So if I'm going to do something, I'm really going to do it.

So I can't dip in and dip out. But I know that about myself.

And also I guess maybe try if you want, give it a try. But also for those that are curious on want any support, we'll probably put a few links, I would say in the show notes for places you can go for support. We'll put one year no beer link in there. The thing that we actually did and loved. We'll also just be very open to you messaging us. So if you've got Anything you want to ask, any questions. This is the one episode where I would love to open it up and, like, send us an email, a LinkedIn message, Instagram, wherever you connect with us. Here to support you with that. This is a big, important topic. And it's not just you. You're helping. You're helping everyone around you by everyone benefits.

Like the knock on effect. Like even us, seeing there are quite a few people in our life since we stopped, they became curious, it took a couple of years and now they don't drink. And that's so amazing to see. And the way their lives are changing. And then Finn, like, what knock on effect will it have for him? But yeah, and we also, we are not therapists or doctors or nutritionists. So all of this information is just sharing from our experience and our learnings. Pretty much.

Absolutely. Yeah. There's no replacement for therapy. There is no replacement for getting professional help. And so if you need that, go seek that. I encourage you to do that. But we just wanted to take a moment today to share our experience. Five years in, and it's what we do. We don't tend to have like a podcast once a month talking about sobriety and alcohol free. Once a year is generally what I do.

Yeah, we don't want to preach.

No. If you want to change your relationship with it, go for it. You've got our support. And if you don't, that's awesome too. But I just can say, hand on heart, it's changed my life.

Yeah, it's changed mine too. I'm really grateful.

Well, thank you for hosting me on the show.

All right, folks, for now, it's about that time. Get out there and lead your life on purpose.

Job done.

I've always wanted to do it.