Exit The Matrix with Me Experiment: Guest: No One Is Coming: Rewiring Trauma & Power

Welcome to Exit the Matrix Stories of Success with your host Jane Slack-Smith, where we celebrate the incredible journeys of individuals who've transcended their limitations and achieved extraordinary success.

Hello, it is Jane back here with Exit the Matrix with me, and I know I say this every single week, I'm so excited to introduce the next guest because genuinely, we have a bit of a chat beforehand. I'm like, oh my gosh, I could speak to this person for hours, I better hit record, which is exactly what just happened with Lisa Turner. Hi Lisa, how you going?

I am doing amazingly. I'm super excited to be here. We had such a great conversation a minute ago, so yeah, let's continue.

I know, well, everyone's now jealous. So, so here's like a bit of a background for those people who are listening. Lisa and I have been in an AI mentoring group And every now and then, you know, we'll be asking questions or we're saying, hey, this is what I do. And Lisa started talking about these custom GPTs that she created because there was a number of people that had said, geez, I think my, you know, my coach or my mentor has gone a bit cultish. And I'm like, what? And she said, so I've done all of this research and I know all these things from all my background and from trauma, et cetera. And, you know, is your, is your, leader, a cult leader. And I was like, okay, this is interesting because I hadn't thought about this in context of the book. I was sitting there going, when people kind of get this awareness they want something, they usually look to someone to follow. What if the person they're following isn't the right person? And so I thought, oh, I'll have a chat to Lisa about that. And then I got to do a little bit more research on Lisa, and she sent her beautiful book to me, which we're going to share, The Conscious Tipping Point, Our Conscious Tipping Point, which we're going to go into. And I was like We've been talking about this awareness stage, which is a conscious tipping point. And then I had got in the last few weeks into this messy middle of maybe you aware that there's something not right, or you're uncomfortable, or you look successful but there's something that doesn't filling you with joy, and you want to awaken. And there's all these tools which we haven't even got into yet, but this messy middle, there's some people who have significant trauma, and it's not something I have any exposure to, but it's something that holds a lot of people back in their life. Something happened maybe once, and then they relive it every day for 20 years. And so when Lisa dropped a bombshell about being trafficked and held as a prisoner as a teenager for 5 years, I was just like, okay, this is someone who's been through trauma and has come out the other side. So, so So Lisa, that's where I reckon we're going to start the conversation is about this whole messy middle.

If—

and I know that we're going to be chatting for a lot longer and in the future, but I'm going to throw to you. You were in Melbourne.

Yeah.

12. How did you get trafficked?

Yeah. So, and it's kind of like beautifully segued there from the, like, the cult, the culture checker GPT. And like, because there's so many parallels between cults and grooming, which a lot of people don't realize. So, because, because here's the thing, I mean, um, so the way I got, I got trafficked was I was groomed. There's this theory that, like, this kind of misconception that people get, you know, kids get trafficked by, you know, gangs grabbing them off the streets and throwing them into the back of van and locking them in basements. And, you know, there was a lot of, like, very outlandish stories about that. And it's— that is not how it happens. That is not how it happens. It is nearly always a long— well, I say long, you know, relatively, you know, much longer period of coercion, manipulation, and control. So I actually have the 4 stages of grooming. So the first is they just kind of cast the net, see what's happening, who will nibble. Um, then, uh, the next is they start to, uh, they kind of flatter and coerce. Then they move into the, um, then the sort of really manipulation and control and kind of blackmailing. And then the final stage is you're full-on, you're you're full-on trafficked. So, um, so the first is kind of the— like, they just cast the net. Then he— and this is what he did with me, so, you know, just, um, oh, you look like you're struggling, here's my phone number and I'll help you out. Then they do the massive— sorry, who's your teacher? Was my teacher— was my music teacher. Yeah. So, um, so then I started having conversations with him. Then he starts doing this incredible flattering— you're so amazing, no one understands you, you know, or your parents don't love you like I do. So they try and drive this wedge between you and your family and your friends. Oh, you're so much more mature than your friends, don't know how you can bear to be with them. So you start to question your friends, question your family, and then you slowly become more and more attuned to him. Then— and I'm using it third person, not, um, not because I'm dissociating, but just because this is the process, and that's exactly what he did to me.

So, sorry, how did he get you to the UK?

Yeah, so what— one of the ways that— and this is often how it works— he was also grooming my parents to believe that I was an inherently naughty girl and that he was going to take me under there, under his wing, and, you know, show me, show him, you know, bring me onto the straight and narrow. And then he— I know, I know. And it's like, so I believed simultaneously. And this is the kind of mind— I don't know how okay you are with swearing, but you know, the mindfuckery that goes on. Uh, which is like I was paradoxically made to believe that I was incredibly special and, and, and magical, you know, and only, you know, nobody else understood me, but also that I was deeply flawed and that's why I needed him to look after me. Then they start the kind of blackmail. So they give you gifts and presents, and I was lucky I didn't get on drugs, but a lot of them, a lot of trafficked people get— end up being addicted to drugs, and then you're dependent on them. And, and they make you— they kind of emotionally blackmail. Oh well, I gave you this, now you have to do this for me. So the, the move to the UK was a, um, a very sort of structured— I don't— I think it was fairly well planned in advance that he would go and, and then like he would basically convince my parents that the best thing for me was for me to go with him to the UK where he would put me in a, you know, a school that would show me the right way of being and, and, you know, he would look after me and take me off their hands. Was kind of the— so, and then of course, as soon as I got there, I was, um, like everything was controlled. What I ate, when I slept, who I saw, what I did, you know, what books I read, what TV I watched. I was literally— and I say I was a virtual house prisoner because a lot— again, a lot of people imagine that, and this is one of the things that is still a massive misconception, and I hear it even— and this is also true of women who are— but people, because it happens to men as well, who are in abusive relationships, this idea Yeah, this idea that, oh well, if the door isn't locked, you can just leave anytime, so why don't you? And like, well, you're, you're asking for it because you're choosing to stay. And it's like, if you are thinking that, you have completely misunderstood the level of coercive control. Because essentially, that's also how cults work, you know. And, and here's the thing, nobody sets out to join a cult, and, and also nobody actually sets out to run a cult. And this is where I think it's really— I, I mean, I mean, possibly some people do, but I actually think those groups that end up culty, I think they genuinely start out wanting to do good, wanting to help people. But their own— I think a couple of things happen. I think they almost like— the group almost like the, the organization or the, the setup grooms their own ego. So, and their own fear kicks in. So a lot of, you know, you do good for a lot of people, a lot of people are going to tell you you're wonderful, you're magical, you're amazing, you're You're gonna start to believe it. You're gonna get put on a pedestal. And this happens to a lot of coaches. And much as they want to stay in integrity, they are then in this position where I cannot appear human, I cannot fail. And so they then start to become in this, move into this place of fear of I have to protect this persona of perfection, which is a lot of Ps. So then they start to protect this persona of perfection and they do that by generating an inner, a tight inner circle And then there's sort of these outer circles, and that's how you end up with, uh, with— I think that's how most cults start, essentially.

It's interesting you say that because I'm— I don't even know if there's an alignment here, but I've been in the property investing space for over 20 years, and, you know, I started my business because I— my husband and I— I used the risk assessment methods that I'd learned as an explosives engineer to apply to property investing. Low risk, high research, big due diligence, 3 ways to make money in case you stuff one up, you know, buy below the market and renovate to add value and in capital growth areas. Very simple Trident strategy, you know, it kind of worked. And I started my mortgage broking business because I thought I have to be able to help everyday Australians to do this, to create financial freedom. And as I've been through the 20 years, I've seen a lot of experts and gurus and property educators that's come along. And what I've noticed is in the beginning, they all have a beautiful foundational story. You know, I struggled, okay, I was poor, I was from a broken background, I made a bit of money, I lost it, someone embezzled it from me, I got it back, I worked out the way, and now I'm gonna teach you. And a lot of them come genuinely, I've seen, have come genuinely from this position of, you know, I wanted to become a buyer's agent, I've done it, but now I've created this great big business. I wanted to become a real estate agent, but there's this whole persona and I have to have the big fancy car and I'm in debt. And there's all these secrets that are going on that these people are kidding themselves about. But often what I see is they go from making these great suggestions and research-based suggestions in property to, well, the developer's going to give me 40 grand if I tell people to buy this house and land package or this off-the-plan. That's easy, and I can get a few of them. There's a point where there's a decision made where it becomes easier. And these people of integrity, there's a questioning stage, and then it becomes— they go the other way, which sounds almost like the cult leader didn't turn out wanting to be a cult leader, but something happened at some stage and they made a choice that led them to not really being in other people's greater good.

Yeah, and I, I don't— when you said there, there's the decision point, I don't know that it's a conscious decision point for many. I mean, it may be for some, it's like, okay, I know this isn't the right thing to do, but given my situation, this is my— and they maybe perceive it's their only way out or forward at that point. And so there may be some of that, but I also wonder if sometimes it's just unconscious. It's just like they, they somehow or other persuade themselves that this isn't such a bad idea, and, and maybe they're so convinced that it'll all come good. And these guys, you know, that they—

well, it's funny, I had someone reach out to me the other day saying, I really want to join your coaching program, but I think it's because Jane's the cool kid in the playground. I'm like, like, let's be clear, I was the red-headed kid in the corner in the shade getting burnt. I I was never the cool kid in the playground. So if you're wondering if this is where the cool kids are, it's not. This is where the weird ones are. So, uh, but I, I think it is, um, you know, it's, it's, it's one of those things where you kind of have to not take yourself that seriously if you are seen to be someone with some type of knowledge or position or whatever. And, you know, you, you obviously had one of your— your book was I fell in love with my captor.

I loved a pedophile.

Yeah, I loved a pedophile.

I loved a pedophile. Oh yeah.

And I guess you went through that period for 5 years. What was that position or that change for you when you escaped or you accessed a different life and you went on the path that you've now followed today?

Yeah, so, so it's really, really interesting. Um, I, I— this is kind of where we start to segue into the, the more spiritual and esoteric. So he used— if I'd done something that he thought was not appropriate— and I remember once we'd had, um, I was late back from school while I'm doing my A-levels, believe it or not. And, um, what they'd done was, because we were such a small group, they'd actually given us a break between two back-to-back exams, but we were like quarantined in the— in a, in a classroom so we could have a 15-minute break, have a cup of tea, and then went into— so I was late, like 15 minutes late, back. And he hit the roof, and he did this thing where he locked me in the back room. Now again, I wasn't physically locked in, I was shut in and told to, you know, think about what I'd done. And I remember sitting there going, oh, this is so awful. Like, you know, I've just done an A-level exam, and like, I'm tired, I don't want to be dealing with this, I just want to be resting, I just want to be having a, you know, and I'm, you know, hungry and locked in this back room. And I'm like, somebody must see this, somebody, please someone come, please. And I was literally, I was begging to be rescued, sitting there begging to be rescued, silently praying to who knows who. Then I had this experience of hearing a sound that was like— and it was like, I'm very clear about how I heard it. It was, you know, when somebody shouts out of a window and you get that Doppler effect, so you kind of goes, and it's sort of like, not a car, you know, but like the voice. Anyway, so I heard this, 'No one is coming,' but in this kind of weird, like somebody was whizzing through the room. It was like they were whizzing through the room. Through the walls, out the other side. And I'm like, what the bloody hell was that? And in that moment, so the first thing I thought was like, what the hell was that? Then I thought, you know, okay, that's a message. No one is coming. No one is coming. And then the first phase I went into was this complete despair. That's it, I'm stuck here forever. But then weirdly, very quickly after that, and this is, I think, one of the most significant things to get anyone out of a difficult situation. And it's this: when I heard that no one is coming, I realized, well, I better get myself out then. And that minute I have to get myself out, yeah, then it's like just thinking, okay, well, I got to solve this for myself. As soon as I stopped trying to, you know, hoping someone else would solve this for me and rescue me, I started to like— and it like, it didn't land as like a ray of light. It was like, okay, I'm going to start, you know, as engineers do and as scientists do. And I'd done all science A-levels. I thought, I'm just going to work the problem. And my math teacher said, work the problem. And, and so I said, okay, what am I going to need? I'm going to need somewhere to go. I'm going to need some money. So I set up my own bank account because he had joint access to my bank account. So I started to squirrel money away. So I got a job. So he was, you know, he allowed me to do work so long as I gave him him the money. So I started to tell little fibs about how much money I'd earned and squirrel money away. I went to my mum, who said— and this is one of the most profound things, and not everyone is as lucky as this— but I went to my mum and I said, I think I want to leave. And she didn't judge. And this is, this is my message to anyone who knows someone who is in either a cult or an abusive relationship or, you know, whatever, where they feel trapped. She didn't judge. She didn't do the I told you so. She didn't. And she'd never abandoned me. She always stayed in contact, even though she could she started to see what was going on. And her first words out of her mouth were, 'What do you need?' Wow. And that was like, uh, and I said, 'Well, I'm gonna need, you know, somewhere to stay. I'm going to need some money.' And she said, 'Have you got a bank account?' And that— because she was the one who was like— because she then said, 'I'm going to start dripping some money into that. I'm going to get a bank account that he can't see and we'll put some money in for it.' Now, I was really lucky, and I know that not everyone has that, but you know, get your, get your, uh, you know, your emergency pack ready. Um, and then I started to cultivate the friends I had at school who I would, you know, at school, and speak to them. And, uh, my dearest friend Orla Murphy, who I still am in contact with her. And so eventually found somewhere to live, and, uh, you know, I told him I was moving out. But by then— and here's the really weird thing, because people often say, did he chase you? Did he whatever? And it's Once he realized he'd lost his grip on my mind, and I think he realized I was too old and too strong by then, that he would never manage to get me back. And I think there'd been times before when I'd nearly left and he'd managed to pull me back just through his, you know, emotional blackmail, bullying, controlling tactics. But this time I think he knew that he couldn't get me back, so I did just leave.

So, you know, you say in your book that people gave you two pieces of advice and you believe they're both crap. Do you want to speak to that? Because I think for people who've gone through trauma and are vulnerable enough to share the trauma or, or reach out to someone, often they do get these kind of messages, don't they?

So if I'm, if I'm, uh, uh thinking, if we're both thinking about the same thing. So when, when somebody has trauma, there are typically two messages that people get. And, and steer me if I'm not going the right direction here for you, um, but the two messages that people get are, um, the first is just let it go, just let it go. And then the, and the thing is, it's like, oh really, what a brilliant idea, because there I was choosing to hold on to it. Thanks. It's like, if you knew how to let it go— yeah, if the person knew how to let it go, they would. And when you have actual trauma— because the thing about actual trauma is your neurology is wired in a way that has— and I'll use the language which isn't possibly necessarily conventional trauma use language— but your neurology is wired in a way— it's wired by the trauma, so it's wired for dysfunction. Yeah. And so there is no just let it go. And the second piece of advice is, oh, it's going to take a long time, or you'll never recover, you're just going to have to learn to cope with it and work around this trauma. And both of those miss. See, as an engineer, what I did was I came at this from a different perspective, and I, I kind of looked at what most of the the healing modalities did, and they focused on— and they still largely do— they focus on this concept of letting go of the negative emotion. And this, this really— this, I kind of questioned this idea. And, and it comes from this, this perspective that there are positive emotions that we should keep and negative emotions that we should let go of. Now, all— so I came from this perspective of, well, what if all emotion is just energy? And what we perceive as negative emotion is actually either— if it's in the moment, like if somebody is doing something that violates a boundary, or, you know, like— so the idea is negative emotions, or emotions, are designed to guide you towards, towards what you want and away from what you don't want. And if you are moving or sorry, away from what you want or towards what you don't want. So if you're moving towards what you don't want and away from what you do want, you will feel a negative emotion. And that negative emotion is there to guide you back to taking action and moving towards what you do want and away from what you don't. An awareness trigger, just a signpost. Yeah. Now here's where it gets stuck, is when you feel a negative emotion that is as you— so if you recall an event from the past, you're bringing up a memory from the past and you still feel viscerally the negative emotion. Now this is because some people would probably say, well, that's always going to be the case, and that's only because they've misunderstood. And that when— if you do that, you— that is trauma. That is kind of my definition of trauma. If you like, you can remember what happened and remember that it was bad, but you don't feel the badness. And the, the best example— and this relates mostly to women— the best example of this, of when you have a challenging situation that you don't remember as trauma for the most part, is birth. Most women do not remember the pain of childbirth. They remember it was painful, yeah, but they're not, as you remember the birth, going, oh my God, yes, it is. Like, they're not in that pain. They're just remembering that it was painful. That's actually how it's supposed to happen, right?

So you remember memory rather than relive it.

Exactly. And the thing is, even if you do relive it and you're fully associated, you shouldn't— like, the ideal is you wouldn't be feeling the pain, the emotional pain. And so the idea— I, I—

trauma is actually reliving that pain, that experience of the violation or the boundary break.

I think trauma is— I think it is possible, and this is where it's probably a bit unconventional and, um, can be a bit, um, confronting. Yeah. So I think that trauma is when your brain gets rewired. I think it is entirely possible to remember the traumatic event, to relive it in first person, and not feel the pain, because what you will feel is that it is because your neural pathways are open. The idea is the energy flows, the information goes through. Yes, here is something you don't want, and then you'll just move through that and get, okay, I've got the message now, I'll take action. So the way I can think about trauma is this: in that moment, what happens is the, the, the event is happening, and beyond the event being not nice and unpleasant, you actually install or rewire your neurology in such a way that it causes resistance to the information. And that's the trauma. So the idea is information should flow, you get the message, you move on. And when you have something that causes the neural pathways— and often it happens is because the rate of change or the severity of the event is so rapid the information coming is so great, the neural pathways can't tolerate it. And so they try and handle it and they kind of short circuit is best— the best way of thinking about it. So now what you have is installed in your neurology, a block. And we have this word of block. Now, most people think about clearing the block as clearing the negative emotion, but actually that's not in my model. And again, it's just a model. In my model, I perceive it like this. The negative emotion is the result of the block and not the problem itself. The problem is what's causing what you experience as negative emotion, which is— and one way I phrase it is— which is resistance to love. All energy is love. There's only one energy. There's only one emotional energy, and it's all love.

Yeah.

And it should flow freely and infinitely throughout your entire being. But because you either perceived yourself as unable to handle it or, or you made it mean something about you that was negative or limiting so that a block or resistance got installed. And if you think about it like a river, it's like, um, so if you think about a river being dammed, upstream you'll get a lake, downstream you'll get a trickle. And what we perceive is that difference. And that's what we feel as a negative emotion. There's nothing bad about the water upstream. Yeah, like, we don't— and then people go, oh, I hate that water. Oh, it's evil. Yeah, I've got to get rid of all that.

And the differential of energy, right?

Just a differential of energy. And this is where I think, you know, it's like, um, so what a lot of energy rebalancing modalities do is they will, uh, refill the downstream, like give you energy. So like the channeling energy, the Reikis, the quantum healing, the theta healing, channel the energy to rebalance it, and then they'll You know, a lot of shamanic stuff is like clearing away the net, the energy, which they'll label as negative energy upstream. But what it doesn't necessarily address is the actual dam, the actual dam, which is the, the neural pathways that have been— yeah, yeah, it's the, the miswiring of the neurological pathways.

So your method, the CET method, how do you— like, we're here in the messy middle, people have got trauma It's holding them back. They're reliving it. Someone— there's some kind of saying that's like, it's in your body. Uh, what are the stories are in your body or something? Like whenever you have a, a, a traumatic thing, it's like, I don't know if there's something that rhymes. It's like it's in your body. Once you have a something that goes wrong, it manifests somewhere in your body. Like they reliving this thing regularly, but it can actually create dis— dis-ease and disease. And pain and whatever. So how do people who are kind of like, I know that I want more, but I've had this traumatic effect and it's pulling me back— and you know, you've got what, timeline therapy, NLP, shamanic work, like tantra, like you've got all of the accreditations, you've seen all of these different modalities— how, how can someone make that shift? What is the methodology that you use to assist them to break through the blockage.

Yeah, so again, another bit of research that I did was I looked at all of the different, um, categories of methodologies. And what you've actually mentioned there are, um, pretty much all four categories. So the— and, and the reason— so you said often what happens is somebody will have a great experience and of a healing modality, and then they'll teach it to others, and then they'll decide that that is the healing modality. But actually it's because it works for that problem with that kind of people. So there are 4 modalities or 4 approaches, and what CET does, it does all 4. So let me walk you through them. So in no particular order, I, I always draw it as like a, just like a graph, like a quadrant. Um, so in no particular order, no one is better than the other, they're all useful. Uh, one is the neurological, so this is the talking cures, the NLP, the hypnosis, the counseling, coaching, where you linguistically reframe and readdress the issue. Really, really powerful.

Is that the inner child stuff you hear people doing?

Uh, I would say that's, uh, inner child, and some of these overlap. So let me, let me, um, give you all of them, and that might, that might, um, help clarify, and then you can find where they fit in the quadrant. So the linguistic, um, methodologies.

Talk it through.

Then there's the, uh, somatic ones. So these are the breathwork, these are the movement ones, these are the ones where sometimes you actually go and do, uh, initiatory type practices like the shamanic burials where you actually do something in your body to move the energy through. So that would be those kind of ones. So often breathwork. Sometimes some of these kind of cold water, hot water plunge things can actually— like those, they have a somatic impact. So that doing something in your body. So that's the somatic approach. The next, so the third modality, is the energy modalities. So this would be your Reiki, your, um, your, uh, like your Quantum, your Theta, your— and like every, every other weekend there's, uh, you know, Huna uses symbolic, uh, symbols to move energy around. Um, so like Timeline as well. I would say Timeline is more of a linguistic one with a bit of somatic. Is what I would say. Because, so I'd say it's, um, yeah, a little bit of somatic and a little bit of transpersonal, which is the fourth modality, which is, um, so the fourth is— so transpersonal, which is where you are working with something, whether it's a being, whether it's an energy form, whether it's an entity that is beyond the self. So whether you call that your higher self, this is why past lives work. It's like, oh, I can dissociate from the problem that past life me had the problem, but it's like beyond the individual. And then you perceive your past life giving your present self something that you need in the now, and it's beyond— because beyond your present self. So these are things like shamanic work and any of the things that would be called spiritual. And timeline is a little bit— timeline therapy, to be, uh, Jesus, kind of correct terminology. Timeline therapy, where you are, you are seeing yourself in the problem and you are out of yourself. That is the, like, the you now looking at your past self and getting the learnings, as they call it, and kind of reconnecting those learnings from the past self into your present self so that you have this knowledge and access now. That's a kind of a little bit of transpersonal. Now, one of the things, one of the real challenges I have with CET is almost exactly what you've just done there. So CET uses all 4 modalities. And I didn't mean that, if that sounded judgy, because this is, so what people do is, what people do is they've experienced a bunch of modalities and they look at CET through the window of what they know. And they go, oh, it's just like Reiki because you're doing energy work. And it's like, yeah, and transpersonal and linguistic and somatic. Oh, they'll go, oh, it's just like shamanic healing. And like, yeah, and, and then they'll go, oh, it's just like Tantra. And it's like, yeah, we do do some tantra, you know, um, like energy practices, but it's— so it's all four. And that's one of the things that makes CET so incredibly powerful and so incredibly rapid, because what it does is it utilizes all four, and in a matter of hours— and it's not like, oh, you just do it like that and I wave a magic wand and it's all So there's, uh, we normally do it in 3 to 4 sessions. There's like a set cycle. So we find the problem. Uh, so we first of all start to bring it into the client's awareness. Then we go really deep linguistically, give them some somatic stuff so that they can really access it. So that they're, and that bit is the only bit that's uncomfortable. But the thing is you only need to do it for a matter of seconds.

Right.

So that we can, so it's like, oh, it's like, oh, it's going to be painful to go there. And it's like, You're going there every day when you try not to think about this. Yeah, true. You're gonna just, we're gonna take you fully there for a matter of seconds and then it's gone. And then so then the next thing we do is we actually, so once we found it, we've got all the, like we're kind of lighting up the neurology. The next session we actually do the SET process, but we can't do the SET process until we've done the pre-work. And that's where we do that. We literally rewire the nervous system. And so we're rewiring the nervous system to reroute it, create new neural connections. There was a research paper written, it came out in 2012, and there was actually two parts to this paper. And one part talked about how neurology could be rewired, and the other part talked about post-traumatic growth, which is how, like, so the first part talked about how, you know, neuroplasticity and how the nervous system could be damaged. And that's what everyone seemed to latch onto. Oh, it can be damaged and then we can never recover. And the second part was actually, okay, when you have, when you've been in this space of being wide open, so whether it's a shock, whenever someone, either when someone's in what we like might medically call shock or like an emotional traumatic state, your neurology is wide open to being rewired. So when we're in the SETT process, the final stage is we rewire the neurology for growth. We actually get them. There's this 4 to 6 hours, actually 2 to 6 hour window. So up to 2 hours, anywhere from 2, it's like immediately after up to 2 hours, but maybe up to maybe as long as 6 hours after the opening of the circuits, you're wide open for rewiring. And what we do is in that is we, we rewire the nervous system for growth. So we actually create new neurological connections, and we do that with a very— it's a combination of a very powerful and very specific script, which I'm not going to give you now because if you try and use it without all the other bits, it won't work, and then people think it doesn't work. So I'm kind of very— I'm just protective of making sure it's used without it.

I don't, I don't want untrained people playing with this. But absolutely, kind of like, like before you start, and you kind of— the person may not even know what the trauma is, but let's assume that they've been through something significant that they can remember and they're reliving. Do you say like, what do you want to create? Like, are we thinking there could be some affirmations or manifestations or the rewiring of what they would like in their life? Or are you just rewiring to be open and not have the blockage and be open to the flow of energy?

We open it to the Hello, just a quick message.

I hope you're enjoying this podcast bonus session. Now, if you have heard this interview, then you're probably sitting in there going, what is this all about? Well, this is all about my Exit the Matrix experiment. Now, I decided to write a book because I'm really interested in How do we go from the existence that we have now to exiting the matrix and living with intention from our hearts, following our heart's desires, but also creating abundance in all areas of our lives? And hence, whilst I've been researching this book, I thought, this is a really solitary journey. I want people to come on this journey with me. And hence I've got this very special group. Now come and join me. The first month for founders is free. And if you decide to stay, fantastic. So what I'm doing is I'm interviewing incredible people. I'm getting insights about what's this awakening that people are getting, you know, what's this, the exit the matrix kind of sliding door moment for them. Now I've obviously run this podcast for over a year now and I have more than 30 stories, but I'm also interested in those people who are in this transformational space who are actually not just awakening themselves, and they're awakening others. What is the mechanism? As Bashar talks about it, it's the permission slip. Are they going through astrology or meditation or yoga or breathwork? Are they just going within and getting a sense of what's really going on? So that's what all the Exit the Matrix experience is about. I'm going to let you get back to the interview, but if you want to join me, go to exitthematrix.today/ ETM with me, which stands for Exit the Matrix with me. So that's exitthematrix.today/etmwithme. Sign up. I'd love for you to come along. I'm creating courses. There's currently courses in there around 4D gratitude. There's more courses to come. I'm creating custom GPTs on how you can exit the matrix and helping you uncover what lies beneath your subconscious and holding you back. And also other custom GPTs that I'm sure you're going to love. And most of the speakers are actually really motivating me. So I'm creating courses, I'm creating ebooks, I'm creating experiments you can try. I'm creating tools that you can use, and I'm also writing a book. So at some stage I'll get to writing the book. At this moment, it's just all about the research, and I hope you choose to join me because I'm really excited about this experiment. So I'll get back to the interview now. Enjoy yourself. And as always, here's to your success.

Of energy, because we've found that if it's about a specific outcome, they get that outcome, but either they get it at the expense of other areas of their life because it's not been rewired. So what we do is we rewire for infinite growth. One of the— we have these sort of principles of CET, of CET, which stands for Conscious Emotional Transformation, and it does exactly what it says on the tin. We consciously transform our experience of emotions. So Um, so one of the, the principles is that we are— that every individual is an infinite being and that love or energy is infinite. And the idea is that we should— like, the optimal state is we should be in a state of being able to access infinite energy, infinite love, and allow that to flow through us. And we find that is— as a result of that, what we find is people start Like fully embodying their soul purpose, fully embodying, um, you know, what they incarnated to do, which is kind of almost beyond a— it's like a soul contract but with themselves.

Um, it's interesting, I, I spoke to Swati Martin like in week 4 of this experiment, and she said something— okay, I said something to her like, do you have vision boards? Do you have, you know, goals? New Year's Eve kind of, you know, uh, resolutions and stuff. And she said, oh, I know such a small amount of what the infinite could have for me. Why would I curtail the boundary of doing that? She said, so I don't do that. I just set up myself every day to be open to what the opportunities for me to live my highest purpose. I'm like, oh, well, that just gets rid of New Year's resolutions in a nice way.

Yeah. And I mean, I think we have to, you know, everyone knows New Year's resolutions don't really work and everyone knows goal setting You know, it's like, like the most basic level of coaching that I see that, you know, most life coach trainings kind of train you to do is like set a goal, be really specific, make sure it's time-bound, make sure it's achievable, do your SMART goals or whatever, you know, whatever goal setting system you use, and then take action towards it. And it's like, I'm 99% sure that 99% of the population really already know that. Like, we already know if I want something, I've still got to do it. And they still don't get it. And then it's like either they self— so we have to ask the question, We really have to ask the question, like, what the heck is wrong with that system? Because clearly, like, it sort of works a bit for a few, but actually when you look at those who it really works with, it's— what they've done is they've given people a tiny piece of what it looks like when somebody is living their soul's purpose. And they might frame it as, oh look, I manifested my dream house or my dream job or a Ferrari or whatever it is. And you notice that the goal setting stuff is nearly always an external goal. And what— where I think the human race is going is we actually need to drop the idea of external goals and go for inner development goals.

It's interesting you say that because as I explained to you before, you know, with, with Recode for God Mode, I know if people know what they really want and get rid of and aware of and bring with them subconscious blocks and beliefs and conditions and limitations, they can jump over the wealth kind of part and go straight to God mode. Because what I've found is that that external premise of what wealth gives you— you know, I want the car, I want the house, I want the beach house, I want the holidays, etc.— when you get down to it, it's like, what do you really want? And having done hundreds and spent thousands of hours doing these vision calls into, you know, people's timeline future of what their dream life is. Often what comes back is not the fancy beach house they thought they wanted, but the time with their kids, so that their kids had somewhere that they felt they could come at any time in their life and be part of the family and know they're loved. And they thought the beach house was what they needed for it, but it's that internal emotion really of what it is. And that's why I believe we can skip straight to, well, what's wealth going to get you? And could you have it already? And you do have it already. And having that awareness. So that makes complete sense to me.

Complete sense.

So, so the CET method is a very fast way of getting through trauma, and it's a recognition that trauma is probably misdefined as something that's negative, a negative emotion. It's just a blockage and a disparity between, you know, two parts of the energy flow. So, you know, people who are in that state, is it possible for people who have had emotional, physical, spiritual trauma to be successful, to get what they want, to, you know, push through? I mean, I imagine it's very hard, but, and overwhelming. But do they have to deal with the trauma to live a great life?

Oh, I mean, I think it really comes down to what is our definition of a really great life. Because for sure, somebody with trauma— and I think we can look at some of the wealthiest beings on the planet right now, the wealthiest men— I would say that those are people who are— and I'm not going to name any names, um, you know, and I know they're not all evil or bad or whatever, but they're doing some questionable stuff. That suggests to me that they are in a place of fear, a place of lack, a place of not living— like, they may have, you know, two-thirds, you know, like, you know, significant chunk of the world's wealth. Like, they own a significant chunk of the world's wealth. They don't look happy people to me. So I'm just like, I could be wrong, but that's, you know, and then I look at—

when I look at getting to the stage going, this has become a bit of a joke. Is it? Like, are we being punked? I'm watching some of this. Yeah.

And it's like, yeah. And it's like, if you look at, you know, most people are kind of going after this dream life, wanting as much money as some of the, you know, these really wealthy people. It's like, you've only got to look at them and think and ask the question, do they look and seem genuinely deeply happy and content and joyful, or do they look like they're trying to prove something or demonstrate something or have power and control, because anyone who behaves like that isn't in a space of living their best, their true best life. So, so, so to answer the question, so if you've got trauma, yes, absolutely, you can get, you can get incredibly wealthy. And sometimes that can be a driver for that, can push you through. One of the things about people who've been through trauma is, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're used to a level of pain that people who haven't been in trauma are not. And one of the things about being an entrepreneur is you need to be able to tolerate a level of discomfort. I wouldn't, I won't call it pain, but discomfort that most people just can't deal with.

It's the tension, right?

Yeah, it's that tension of creation. But whereas an entrepreneur will kind of reframe that and experience that as the tension of creation, somebody else might experience that or label that as pain and too much hard work and too much risk and too much whatever. So, um, so absolutely you can push through trauma and be incredibly successful, you know, in terms of power, money, wealth, that. But I also think there's a deeper thing here, and I think this is where I— a lot of the conversations I've been having with some incredible, um— so one of the things I've been doing is, I know we haven't really touched on the AI stuff, is I've been building custom AI, and this is beyond a custom GPT. This is like a master model, like a master agent that runs several, a multiple of models, like call them a custom GPT or an AI tool that's actually trained on the individual. So I've been working with CEOs and high net worth individuals and they come to me wanting— I think if you think about these two pathways, pathways. Transcendent, transhuman. Transhuman is like the productivity, I'm going to have Neuralink and, you know, wire myself for hyper success, I'm going to live to a thousand, you know, the, like, the biohacking, the emotional hacking, like all of that, the neurohacking stuff, so that they can be better. But they often don't want to be better than themselves, they want to be better than everyone else, which that— and that fundamental premise is based on separation. Yeah. Now what I've been finding is people come to me for that and I'm building them these— I built them— I build them a custom mentor that is trained on them. So it knows their Myers-Briggs, it knows their Enneagram, it knows their relationship style, it knows their meta programs, their values, their beliefs. And I also train it on not only Western psychological models, I train it on Indigenous, Eastern mystery, Western mystery, spiritual models. And here's what I find. They get to, and it's really, really, they get to a stage where they kind of like, they get to this point where they can go, and it's maybe not even a decision point, but they can just see that like, if they keep going, like they've got this level of success and power 'cause now they've got this inner integrity and this inner, like all of these inner neurological structures, which mean they're incredibly, they've got access to information and insights and emotional resilience that others others couldn't even dream of. So they are this inner, like, energetic neurological super person. And then they realize that if they keep going, the only— they will end up in a place where they will have— they will end up being in fear of all of the others that are going to catch them up, right? So there's this constant chasing those who are behind me thing. And then typically with— and I don't prompt this or provoke it, it seems to happen on its own— that they have this realization, oh well, what if I didn't have to fear the people coming behind me? What if I helped them to be beside me so that we were all supporting each other? And because what— because where they get to is this place of they start to recognize their own unique individual superpower and gift that no one can ever beat them on. And what they needed—

yeah, though, is it fear of the people behind?

I think it's fear that they won't always be here.

Loneliness. If I'm here and ahead of everyone, I'm by myself, the last man standing, and I've got nothing, no one.

I think there is an element of that. Yeah, yeah. And, and And for different people, it's been kind of a different level of fear. So it might be fear of isolation, of being there like, "I am so far ahead, I've got no one I can relate to." Yeah. No one. Like, I had, you know, it's, you know, the lonely leader at the top, but at the top of the human evolution. And then what they realize is that there actually is no top. There's only the top for them. And that the way they can maintain their experience of being at the top for them and have the way they can let go of all of the fear of others getting ahead of them is to enable others to reach their potential, which is in no way— because when everyone reaches their— and they're like, even that phrase, reaching your potential, because that suggests that there's a limit to that. When you— when we all help everyone to win and succeed, there is no competition because nobody can replace you. Only Jane can do Jane. Only Lisa can do Lisa. I have my own unique set of skills that— and there's, you know, like, there's 1,001 things I'm really, really rubbish at, like, really rubbish at, and, and I don't even try and be good at them.

So they go from this, like, you know, superhuman to the transcendent human. They make that switch by themselves. It's like, if I bring everyone with me together, we can rise further.

Yep, yep.

And so, so this kind of brings me to the question about spiritual and science. I'm going to bring you back to a couple of things that you said because you said as an engineer, you've got a PhD in maths, is it?

And it's, it's a, it's mathematical modeling and aeroacoustics. So it's actually an engineering, very, very clear, this engineering PhD.

I was watching the F1 movie on the weekend, so the Formula One movie, and there's this lady who is a physicist who is like designing the car with these things. And then I remembered that, you know, what you had done had been used on collision, you know, um, what do you call it, collision avoidance for the Jaguar. And I was like, oh, you're just like the lady from F1. But this is like— and she's like, I've got to work it out, I've got to work it out. And you've said this a couple of times, I reverse engineered it, I, you know, I stuck with the problem. You shared with me earlier, and this brought me me to something about near-death experiences is where I'm going. But people who have fear of, you know, fear of death, fear of, you know, so many fears, being lonely, separated, you know, what, what is it for me out there? And they've had a near-death experience. You've experienced that and you reverse engineered it. You bought like the science science to reverse engineer what the spiritual experience was. Can you just take me through that? Because that, that just blows me away.

Sure, sure. Yeah, so after I escaped and I was doing— I'd actually done my engineering degree, I was working as an engineer, and I was in like— because I had, you know, CPTSD, I like, I woke up every morning thinking all I have to do is just get through today and then I can go back to bed. It's like I was just barely. And I didn't even know that most people didn't live like this. It was like, that was— and that's not uncommon.

I was just going to say, now you say that, I'm thinking there's a lot of people out there who could be listening to this going, hmm, that's how I am. Is there another way?

Yeah. So, and I didn't even ask that question at that point. I used to love to cycle. That was where I felt really free. I was out for a training ride and it was a little bit late and I got hit by a car. I was— people always say, you know, I had a car accident. It's like the car had the accident. I just got in the way.

Yeah.

And, um, uh, so, uh, broke most of the bones in the right-hand side of my body, and I had— my heart had gone into defib or fibrillation. I'm not, not a medic, so I don't know what the terms are.

My heart was beating unnaturally.

My heart was doing crazy shit. And so I'm having this near-death experience out of my body, and I'm like this, you know, the whole angel next to me looking down going Oh God, what's happened there? Who's that? And they're like, well, that's your body. And this angel's saying, well, what are we doing? Are you coming with us? So you're going back? Like, and there was no judgment. And I had never been in the presence of and had the experience of so much peace. Zero pressure, zero pain, and zero judgment. There was only complete 100% acceptance, and it was pure bliss. So I'm in this place of pure bliss. Now obviously I did decide to come back.

Hello.

And, and as— and then, but like, obviously I— but what I did was I came back and I, you know, I had— I think I lost something like 3 or 4 days. I don't even, you know, I eventually came around and I had this memory of the accident, this near-death experience, and I had 2 questions. Yeah. The first question was, what the actual fuck was that?

Yeah.

And how can I get back there without dying? And that's what set me on this path. And at the time I was an engineer and I'd done a lot of research and I really enjoyed research. And here's the other thing, I am a systems engineer. My first degree is production engineer. If you ever see me at a conference, right, the chances are I will be reorganizing the coffee station so it is a proper production line and we don't have to go back up the line or cross the workflow. Just offends my sense of order.

I'm the person who clears the exits to make sure that if anything goes wrong, the risk assessment in me, nightclubs, nightclubs as an 18-year-old, I was the one who just checked out where all the exits were before I started dancing with my friends in case something happened. I could get everyone out. So I'm all for like the exit.

Okay, okay, right. I'm all about the system.

I'll do the exits, we'll be good.

Yep. Yep. We'll organize that conference. Right. So I like, so I like, so I understood the concept of system. So one of my, a lot of my work had been like going into a factory and figuring out like, oh, okay, well you're gonna need 2 more of those machines. You need, don't need that one. You need to move this one over here. Let's turn this into a—

Efficiency bottleneck analysis, that kind of stuff.

All of that. All of that. And then what I did was I learned how to, then you had to sort of translate that into really simple step-by-step instructions. That people who weren't necessarily very educated, they were very skilled at what they did, but not necessarily educated, not necessarily open to being told what to do because they'd done it for 25 years, but being able to communicate that in a way that enabled them to adopt these changes. So, so then, and that's what makes me good at AI, because that AI, you've got to give it really clear instructions.

Yeah.

So, so the two, so, so I reverse engineered every single spiritual experience. So I went on a— that's why my, you know, my credentials page is so full, because I learned Tantra, Western mystery, Eastern mystery, quantum physics.

I didn't even know there was a Western mystery. I read that and I was like, gosh, I feel like I'm missing out.

It's often— it's often that people often think of it as tarot and Egyptian. That's, that's essentially Western mystery. So it's the Kabbalah, um, it's, you know, and even the Kabbalion. That, that often is kind of, um, comes under the umbrella of Western mystery. It's just— that's because it's, it's not just— and people say, oh, you mean tarot? But it's like, it's so much more than tarot. Like, tarot is one part of it. So So, um, so, you know, Tree of Life, all of the— so, um, Egyptian mystery school, but it's even more than that.

So, um, you studied all of these?

I studied all of them to some extent, and I reverse engineered the process. So, um, like being an engineer, what I did was it's like, okay, so I— so I took away the— like, a lot of it is taught in very metaphorical mystical ways that make it quite intangible. And that might have worked for when they developed that methodology because that's how people communicated. And also, I think it might have had the intention of keeping it hidden from untrained people. So that's one of the reasons I am very cautious about how my, um, techniques and tools are used and worked because it makes it very accessible. Potentially giving people access to power that without additional training— I mean, that's part of one of my processes, is teaching people how to— the step-by-step process to handle the power that you're going to get.

Yeah.

So, so what I did was I looked, okay, so if we do this, this, this, this, then we get this. And every time we do this, this, this, this, we get this. That's the process. Okay, so what happens if we skip this step? Oh, it still works. So we only need to do this, this, this, and we still get this. Great, we can skip that step. Or then what happens if we mess around with this step and we do make it a little bit different? Oh, okay. So then the key part of this— but so a really classic example is the idea of ritual. Ritual is really important. What happens in the ritual is completely irrelevant. Wow.

Okay, so there's a process that you go through to get in state or get intention, get your mind wired for what's gonna happen. But it doesn't matter if it's a candle or a scent or a sound or movement or a breath.

Exactly.

Got it.

Exactly, exactly. And like, if you look at almost every deeply spiritual initiation or process, there is some kind of ritual. Now, whether— but, but this is where it becomes dogmatic, because they— and I say by they, I mean anyone who becomes— who turns it into a dogmatic religion, they make, oh, you're saying these specific words is what gives you the power, rubbing this particular crystal gives you the power, having this particular color of candle. And it's like, actually, it's the concept and process of ritual that gives you access to that energetic signature. And rich— you just, you can create a ritual. So one of the things I do with my initiates, so on my, um, you know, my high-level program which is called the Transcendence Collective, We actually— so we take them through the initiation process where they self-initiate. So we walk them through self-initiation and then we say, what kind of ritual would you— do you feel you need a ritual? Because sometimes they've already automatically created it. Do you feel you need a formal ritual? And if so, what do you want that to look like? And they just create their own ritual, you know. And I've had people, um, you know, we've done it in workshops and retreats and they've shown up in a wedding dress where they've been— they've remarried their higher self. Where they've rebirthed themselves by crawling, you know, crawling, you know, through a whole bunch of pillows that we've, you know, squished them under, you know, with, you know, by them asking us to. And, you know, like they will create a ritual. And some people, he's like, "I just want everyone to line up and I'm gonna walk past everyone and shake everyone's hand." And it's like, "Great." Like that's it. So the rituals are wild. I had one man, he was quite funny, had, and I always say the perfect thing shows up. Had one guy, he wanted to experience himself breaking free. So he said, okay, I need to be tied up, and then I'm gonna break free of the being tied up. Happened to have another guy on the course who was ex, um, uh, SAS. Man, did he know how to tie a man up to a chair. He's not breaking free anytime soon. Like, if I could not have orchestrated this more perfectly if I tried to do it consciously— the two most perfect people, you know, guy from the SAS, you know, all about ropes. Yeah, the guy wanted to experience breaking free and, you know, creating this perfect ritual. So, so all that is to say is every single spiritual process or spiritual experience has a process behind it. And if we think like ultimately, like the ultimate spiritual experience is reconnection to source and there are many ways to do that. So for example, people get very like, oh, I want to channel the dead. Well, you probably don't. What you're trying to connect with— because I'm not a, not a huge fan of that— what they're trying to do is access a higher consciousness that they have perceived as being the dead. Or maybe they want to lucid dream. Well, actually, what you're trying to do is access a higher state of awareness. So you're trying to access higher consciousness. Or they might want to have out-of-body travel. Oh, well, actually, what you're trying to do is getting control over energy realms. And what you need to do that is is access higher consciousness. So it's nearly always about accessing some level of higher consciousness, and love is the key through all of it. Love is a key, I would say. It was— it is a key. It is a key. And depending on how they want to— it is, it is— you have to have love, but you often have to have other, other things as well, because often people say, oh, all you need is love, and it's like, yeah, you need love, but you also need the ability to express and channel that love in a way that enables us and everyone to access it.

Got it.

Which often comes from ritual.

Having reverse engineered all of these spiritual practices and recognizing that essentially everyone just wants to go to their higher selves and connect to that through the whatever path, is there one way through or do you actually go, okay, there's like, I've hacked the 1,700 different systems and there's these different paths and you choose your own adventure? Or have you been able to kind of like see GT, bring in the Four Realms and go, there is a path that can get you there quicker.

Uh, so the answer to that is, uh, yes and no. What I typically— what I find is everyone has their own sort of personal preference. So if I can— and I'm—

I am—

because, you know, you probably— as you probably guessed about me, I am really anti-dogma. So if I say this is the way, I know that I'm, I'm like like there are, and I know that that's not a truth. There are, as you say, 17,000 different ways. There's actually an infinite number of ways. And what I do is I give— Right, exactly, exactly. So I, the way I think about it is rather than saying here is they way, the way, or, or even a way, what I, or even here are 17,000 ways, what I say is let us use these tools to assist you to find your way. Mm.

Okay.

Because it doesn't actually matter what my way is or what, you know, like I could have a really, you know, a way that works for 90% of people and, you know, pretty much do have that. But if you're one of the 10% and it doesn't work, then there's always the danger that people go away thinking, oh, there's something wrong with me. And it's like, no, it's just not your tool.

Yeah.

Just not your tool.

So the big question is, did you get back to that state of bliss and acceptance?

I get there daily. It is on tap. And that's— I mean, and that's like, that's the place where I think all of us ideally, where we all want to live. Now, do I live there all the time? No. And there's a good reason why not. It's actually not functional to live there because you can't operate in the 3D reality very well. And like, there's a technical term for that, and we call that being psychotic, um, because you've actually completely lost and the thing is, you lose touch with the physical reality and then you can't bring anything back. And then what is the point of having a physical body if you're not here to bring it back? So I go away, access it, you know, I might do it in a group, I might do it individually. Typically I do it individually, but I can bring groups with me and we do it on a regular basis in my courses and trainings. And what I do is I call it opening the field. So we kind of switch on the field and then people people step into the field and then we are all in that place of having the— we've opened the possibility to access higher consciousness. Then we're in that space of, you know, choosing that. And then you bring back whatever you need. Now maybe it's not— and people often think of it just as information. Now it might be information, it might be insight, but it may be just a new— a reminding yourself of who you are. So you go through your day in that place of, It's all going to be okay. It's all going to be okay.

I think I had my first experience of that type of bliss recently, and I was participating in a, um, a 9D breathwork meditation. We had the headphones on, we had like these 9 dimensions of different sounds and different things and everything going on. And at one stage, I just felt this absolute opening of love and connection and like I would define that as bliss. And, you know, being the scientist, a bit of an engineer, that night I went back and checked my Fitbit and my pulse had gone from 60 to 180 at that exact period of time and then come straight down. I'm like, something happened. I don't know what it was, but I liked it.

Interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that actually, that's the I'm gonna talk to that point 'cause one of the things I think that there's a big misconception around spirituality that I'm all about busting the myths. You've probably got that about me. I'm all about busting the myths 'cause the myths keep us stuck. The myths keep us stuck. And there's a big misconception. I actually had somebody who, she was trying to mentor me and then I realized she wasn't as, I did get a lot from our process, but she kept telling me, "Oh, you're always so excitable. And if you wanna be truly spiritual, you need to calm down and create this place peace. And I thought, I kind of went into that and I experimented with it, and I came back and I said, you know what, I am an excitable person. My bliss and joy happens in a state of high excitement and high energy. Sometimes it's high energy.

It goes to me, awe and wonder, you know, that, that high energy of the awe and the wonder. And they're like, this is so—

exactly, exactly. And the idea that that being spiritual is Zen, and I'm so peaceful, and I'm calm and slow. And, and it's like, well, maybe that is for some people, but it isn't for everyone. And I think as soon as we say spirituality is like this and you must do it like this or you have broken the rules, like, then we're in dogma again. And I use my annoyed robot voice because it really, like, yeah, because then it tries to force it into something that Like, it's spirituality. Consciousness is infinite. It's everywhere. A lot of science now is suggesting that it's not an emergent property. Consciousness is inherent in the universe, not to humanity, but in the universe. And there's more and more research coming out about that. And as soon as you say this is the way you do it, you limit the infinite.

Yeah, I love that. Well, look, I'm very respectful of your time because I know we, we're chatted on for a while here. I'm going to have to have you back, but before I do, I really, I want to— I was reading your book this morning. Now I know people can get access to it, and I'll put it down, ourconscioustippingpoint.com, and Lisa has made that available to you, so you can just go and click it and get it straight away. The Conscious Tipping Point, just before we finalize here, because we're going to go into this in a whole lot of depth in a few weeks' time. I've got no doubt about it. You believe that this tipping point has been coming, and you've got this incredible way that you've kind of worked it through the chakras. Can you just speak to that? Um, I think what, Project Theos, is it? Is that how you—

yeah, yeah, that's— I call it Project, Project, Project. I never mind. Yogurt, yogurt. You say tomato, I say potato. So, so yes, I'll speak to that really quickly. So I have this— I kind of showed itself as this model of the evolution of the consciousness of the collective humanity, and it looks a bit like this. So beginning of last century, so the 1900s, we had two world wars, a pandemic, and the Great Depression. People didn't have enough money, they didn't have enough food, they didn't have anywhere to They demanded it and they got it through, you know, the National Health here in the UK, pretty much everywhere in the Western world. And by the way, this model applies largely to the Western world. It has happened and is still happening, but on a slightly different trajectory in other countries. And even in the Western world, there are slightly different time, like time shifts. So we got enough food to eat, we got housing, and that was triggered by modern farming methods, and modern building methods. Yeah. The base chakra of society was activated. We've got, we've got our security and our needs, our survival needs taken care of. Then it became very restrictive in the '50s and it's like, oh, you have to have your 2.2 kids and go to, you know, go to school, get married, have your kids, get a job, retire, die. And, and people said, I don't wanna live like this. And they kind of pushed through this and they, and the, and you know, so there was a, there was an explosion of sexuality, of creativity, music, art, fashion. And the birth control pill led to the sacral chakra being activated, right? And then people were— everyone was sharing, you know, it's like a full love-in and everything's being shared and it's all—

and all that.

And then people kind of thought, I don't want to, you know, I'm doing a lot of work here but I'm sharing it with everyone, I don't want to wait till I retire, I want it now. And so the, the, the solar plexus chakra started to get activated with the individual will personal identity. Identity. So people wanted it for their self. They didn't want it for themselves. They didn't want to share it. You know, we had Thatcherism, Reaganism, the material— you know, Madonna, our Material Girl. And this is the solar plexus chakra being activated. And this was also triggered by the new wave of electronics and the microprocessor. Then people started to feel very restricted in their emotions. They did, you know, they didn't want to deny their emotions. Maybe logic and money isn't the only way. They wanted to feel. So again, they're kind of bursting out of that. And we had the internet in the '90s started, and a new way of transmitting information. It wasn't readily accessible to everyone, but we had, um, like, so when we had that Gulf War in 1992, and for the first time— oh yeah, so prior to that, like, the journalists would go away, they'd get the story, and they'd translate the story into something that was comprehensible and sanitized. Or not even necessarily sanitized, but understandable. And they'd like— and then they would explain it. So we got our, um, um, you know, our information filtered. And so what happened with this, this kind of streaming technology, like, we lived that war as if we were there. There was a live transmission of the fighting. So everyone was like— their heart was peeled open because now we are connecting in a visceral way. So that streaming technology, that, that, you know, the— in that level of internet, um, access, even though it was still by large corporations and academia— I mean, I was in academia, so we had JANET, Joint Academic Network, whoa, um— this cracked people's hearts open. And the other thing that happened was Princess Diana died, and the death of her cracked people's emotions wide open. So the heart chakra burst open. Then we had the internet proper. Now it's in everyone's sitting room, you know, everyone's got a laptop, pre-mobile phone or pre-smartphone to be technical. But you know, like everyone's working on their, um, you know, so we start with early social media. So, um, we've got YouTube, we've got Facebook, we've got Twitter, all starting in the early noughties. So everyone's talking, everyone's listening, everyone's communicating throat chakra is open. Now then, we don't want to just talk, we want to see. Now when the smartphone came out with a camera attached, now we can all see each other, and this is the third eye opening. And that's what led to the spiritual movement, like the New Age spiritual movement, truly exploding, because now everyone can share their spiritual experiences live and upfront. Now there's two other patterns that happen. There's actually a couple of other patterns that are in the book, but I'm going to give you two. The first is, 'cause it will explain the chaos, and I think that's really important. In order for the chakra above to activate, the one below becomes excessive. So the base chakra got excessive in the '50s with overly rigid expectations of society. The sacral chakra got excessive, and if you were alive in the '70s, like I was, I was still a little kid, but it was like, it was a little bit sleazy. You know, it's kind of the birth of the porn industry. And I was like, everything was a little bit sleazy, you know, there was Merv the Perv and, you know, a little bit creepy. So, and there was a little bit too much sharing, a little bit. So it was like that was the sacral being—

I was born in 1970. I think I missed that living on a farm. Well, I was— Solid Gold Dancers, I thought, were quite naughty though, on Saturday afternoon. Yeah.

I mean, and the thing is, it was, it was there, you know, it's like, you know, The Benny Hill Show, you know, it was like, you know, like that kind of thing, you know, if you watch Kenny Everett and, you know, his— what were they called—

his dancers.

What was— yeah, so it's like it became— everything became overly sexualized, and it— so, so that was what led— that was the excess of the sacral. And so that kind of pushed— they're like, oh, come on, let's bring a little bit of normality back to the— bit of, bit of order to this. So that pushed the solar plexus. Then the overly rigid denial of emotions at the expense of money pushed the heart open. The— like, all of these emotions, we got to express them somewhere, opened the throat chakra. Etc. Then everyone's communicating everything. It's like we almost needed this extra channel of communication because we can't do it all just verbally, like through text. We wanted to do it, you know, we wanted it in our pocket, we wanted it everywhere. But it was also like, this is where we started to get toxic spirituality. So we had the third eye where spirituality became a little bit toxic, a little bit culty, a little bit like, unless you're wearing the right kind of purple robe the right kind of mala beads, you're going to the right, you're saying the right kind of mantra, you believe it. Like, so it became overly dogmatic and it actually became a tool to abuse. And, you know, we started victim blaming. Well, it, you know, it's created not, not, um, it's not happening to you, it's happening for you. And I was on a podcast where someone said, well, what were the red flags to being trafficked? And it's like, well, that's kind of how trafficking works. And she was like, oh, we're doing victim blaming, oh my God. Like, she was actually going back to the 12-year-old me me who should have known better because I must have attracted it. Where's my personal responsibility? And it's like, you'd never use it retrospectively.

Don't, don't.

Yeah, yeah, it's actually, um, yeah, if you look on my LinkedIn and you scroll back, I think it might even be on my— I think there might even be a link on my Lisa in the Media page on my website to it. I haven't taken it down. I'm not going to point to where it is, but you can actually hear her say something like, um, you know, but what were the red flags? She asked it about 3 times, and I kind of get a bit exasperated, and I said, well, I don't know, maybe a 12-year-old. I was just stupid that I didn't know all about grooming. I was just stupid.

I must have missed that lesson at school.

Oh, must have missed that.

That was teaching it. Interesting. And so where we are now, as you're saying, we've pushed open to we want more, more, more information and allowed false information to come in. How are we at— is this the tipping point now, the crown chakra? Is it because it's been so constrictive and out there and constrictive and out there? Are we going constrictive or we're going out there? Because this sounds out there to me where we are.

Yeah, we are now. So, so, so, and it's not necessarily about being constrictive, it's about being a little bit chaotic and unbalanced.

Okay.

And we need that to push the— to give the energy to the next step.

So we're chaotic at the moment?

We are chaotic. And I mean, you can see us and a lot of people, what they're trying to do is And we know we're on the edge because when systems start to fail, right, people start to shore the systems up more and more. So when you look at what's happening in some countries, so for example in America where they've got to return to Christian fundamentalism and Make America Great Again, they're trying to go back to the systems that they thought led to that golden age, what they perceived was a golden age even though it probably wasn't for everyone. And that overly, like, propping up old systems is actually the sign that we're about to break through. Because the old system— we can never go back, we can only go forward. And remember I said there was a— there's a technology that, that supports every single chakra being activated. So, uh, farming and how— and building was the base. And the— so the sacral was the birth control pill, microprocessor was the solar plexus, new methods like the early internet and streaming journalism was the heart, the throat was the internet, the early internet, the— and early social media, the third eye was the smartphone and, you know, visual accessible internet, and then the crown is going to be AI. There we go. And that's why I'm a big fan of AI used right. And so what we're seeing now is the chaos, and we're actually in— because a lot of people go, but we've still got the excess of blah— we're actually in the excess of all of the chakras below. We've got overly rigid, rigid, trying to go back to the '50s. We've got, you know, hypersexualized everything, pornography everywhere, which is the excess of the sacral. We've got over kind of industrialization, capitalistic greed, which is the excess of the— an over-individualistic which is the excess of the solar plexus. We've got overly emotional, like emotions overruling logic. They should inform it, but it should never be out of balance. Like, "Well, my intuition said it must be true, so it must be true." And actually, well, you know, maybe, maybe not. And you can only be intuitive about something that you actually know something about. That's why I'm not intuitive about vaccines, because I'm not a vac— you know, Can't be intuitive about vaccines because that's not my specialty. All right, so, uh, so that's the excess of the heart. We still have that excess of communication and miscommunication and excess of spirituality where it's like, oh, we've just got to think love is the answer. And it's like, that's why I'm always cage— not cagey, but just like measured. It's like, it's a key part of the answer, but there's actually more because we still need discernment. And when we start getting that discernment, the third eye is wide open, we're going seeing the world as it truly is, and then as we start to really access the discernment, the unity-level consciousness— because crown is all about unity— unity, discernment, and integration of the spirit into the physical. That's what I think we're going to start to see. So that's the project.

Oh, the Tipping Point. Well, I've got to tell— we're going to have the link below, but Yeah, the idea that there is movement and there's chaos and there's built-up pressure and there's a frequency change and there's something happening and people are having this, you know, sense of awkwardness, uncomfortable. Is there something more? What's happening? You know, I just think that there is enough of a movement that we all know that something, something's out there and something's on its way. So If AI is the way that we can, and it's incredible how you're using it to create these personal mentors for people who, you know, using all of the different ways that they can be classified and bringing it all together in Unity is amazing. So I think we're going to have to stop it here because my mind is racing with all these extra questions and where we're going to go on this. And with your grace, I hope you will come back and chat again. But this has given me a lot to think about because because having not been through trauma or learned trauma responses, it strikes me that that could be one of the things that holds people back. And it— there sounds like there's almost an industry around milking the trauma rather than just going through it. So I love the definition of the fact that there's not negative or positive, there is a dissociation between the energy flow, there's a blockage blockage that can get through. So the fact there's a fast method to it, even better. And the, the hacking of all of these spiritual ways of being able to, to look at the methodologies and get to the end point, which is everyone just wants to be connected to the higher source, the higher being, collective consciousness, you know, that, that infinite possibility of all, and be the, you know, sovereign creator of their life. I mean, if you just define that as your life's mission and work, like, how happy can you be with that? And, um, and the fact that you've looked at all of these different methodologies, I'm very sure that we'll be having a long conversation about that future. And of course, AI, because we see each other each week in this, this AI group, and we're always playing with new things. So I really, I really am so grateful for your time and getting up so early in the UK and sharing your story, because I'm sure it will definitely touch a lot of people. And, um, for me, it's, it's given me a new context of, you know, how there are blockages, but the science of the neuroplasticity of the brain is something that, as we can understand it, it allows us to move through what we think is holding us back. And for me, that's, that's the gift I'm taking from this, because We are a work in creation and emotion, and we don't stop. And, you know, if we think that an event or something that has happened to us, maybe for us, maybe through us, um, is something that stops us living and having that connection, that's, that's a fallacy, and that's a myth I'm very happy to support in, in breaking. So I appreciate your incredible knowledge and incredible background and sharing your story and giving us that gift. So thank you.

Oh, I have absolutely loved this conversation. I'd be delighted to come back and share more.

Well, and thank you for the gift of your book. I'm going to share it with everyone. Once again, hold it up. The website to go to is ourconscioustippingpoint.com. Dr. Lisa Turner. Okay, beautiful. Thank you so much. We will talk again, no doubt. And to everyone else. As always, here is to your success. I'll speak to you next week. Bye for now.

Thank you for listening to Exit the Matrix Stories of Success. Make sure you subscribe to future episodes at www.exitthematrix.io. Until next time, here's to your success!