Exit The Matrix with Me Experiment: Guest: ETM With Me: Breaking the News: Jem Fuller | What Happens When Your Awakening Disrupts the Status Quo

Welcome to Exit The Matrix Stories of Success with your host Jane Slack-Smith, where we celebrate the incredible journeys of individuals who've transcended their limitations and achieved extraordinary success.

Oh! Gem Fuller, welcome Exit The Matrix with me.

Thanks, Jane. I've been looking forward to this conversation.

Okay, so I'm going to give you a little bit of a background so you know what you're stepping into. But when I think of you, Jim, and having had the pleasure of interviewing you on the first season of my Exit the Matrix podcast and hearing about your sliding door moment, um, I think of you as a modern-day philosopher.

Oh, that's nice.

Because every time I talk to you, there's something that lands and I'm like, ah, I'm going to have to go away and think about that. That was profound. And sometimes it's just like a very high frequency, um, simple comment that you make. And so in this kind of exploration that I'm doing in this book, which is, you know, how to live from your heart, your heart's desire, and be in alignment with that whilst you're creating a life of abundance in all areas of your life. Is it even possible? I believe it is, but I'm on this exploration and, you know, rather than having a book that says this is the way, you know, find your why and this is the 5 steps. Steps, I really want to introduce, I guess, a number of ways that people could have this experience for themselves once they go through this kind of awareness stage, which is where I thought I was at. I was in this awareness stage interviewing people around, you know, what, what, why people are feeling uneasy at the moment, why there is this almost palatable disconnect content. And, you know, there's people who are taking up space in your brain rent-free and you're letting them do it, you know, be they, you know, politicians or, you know, whatever they are. And there's a lot of people I speak to are like, you know, I feel like I'm here for more, or I feel guilty that I've had so much and I want more. And so it's kind of like going to finish that section of the book off and jump into, well, what are some of the mechanisms for people to, you know, find what they really are after, mate, be it meditation or be it movement or be it whatever it is, career or whatever. But what's prompted me to ask you, um, and to talk to you today is that there's this messy middle, right, where people are kind of like, I kind of want more, or I'm kind of feeling uncomfortable, I should be grateful, or is there anything else out there, I've hit that top of my career ladder, or, you know. And you've worked with the leaders as a leadership coach, you know, not just in Australia, but throughout the world. And you are one of those people, although you, I say you're a modern day philosopher, you're also someone who is one of the most highly networked people I know. And often people will appear in my diary to talk to me and we may make an appointment and it's like 3 weeks later and I'm like, how did we get connected? They're like, Jim. I'm like, of course, of course, you know, a Hollywood producer who just happens to be in my diary. Of course, you know, the person who's the heart-centered, you you know, ecosystem in Switzerland. And, and so you're profound in your networks, and which I want to kind of get into a little later. But what really strikes me is that this messy middle that people go through, there's conversations often that we have to have with other people about what's going on. And sometimes there's conversations with ourselves. And then I remembered that you did a TED Talk on that conversation. So I was like, ah, and I don't remember what that conversation was about, but I did have used some of your techniques in crafting conversations that are difficult. So I thought, okay, as a revise— revision for me, but also as a kind of awareness point of discussing with you. And I know, you know, you lived in India and you've got— it's like a second family in the Himalayas. And, you know, you've spent so much time on this self- soul searching as well as being at the height of, you know, leadership, you know, consulting. You've got this incredible, you know, depth of knowledge. So I'm gonna throw it to you. The difficult conversation. What is the difficult conversations that you've come across that most people are having who are in this kind of awakening process? Wow.

There's, there's a lot there, isn't there? Um, what are the difficult conversations that, see, I, I think I mean, let's just start here and we'll follow the threads of the conversation, of this conversation. But I think when anyone is exploring the expansion into their potential or even just growing, evolving, developing themselves, hopefully in a direction that generates more consistent inner peace, more fulfillment, a more gentle and easy experience of existence. That's what we're kind of searching for. Peace of mind and body and soul and, and fulfillment, you know, a sense of, of deep joy. And as we're searching for this, some people more actively than others, we necessarily need to change. We're changing our relationship with ourself primarily. Which is our relationship with life, which includes our relationships with other people. And this can be disconcerting for, for, for people that we know who are not in that process of change. And not everyone should be, by the way. If someone doesn't want to change, even if they're unhappy and they don't want to change, or they don't know how, that's okay, right? Not everybody should be on this journey of you know, moving towards— I don't like the word enlightenment only because of the connotations attached to it, but it's a nice word because we become lighter. The easier our relationship is with ourself and life, things become— feel lighter. So if you are on that journey, people who are not, it's unsettling for them, your change, because it's— they can only perceive you in their reality. Anyone can only perceive you through their lens, their biases, their filters. They have a version of you that they see in front of them, and whether they like it or like you or love you or don't like— whatever it is, that the version of you is a part of their reality. And if they see you changing, and especially if the changes are profound, it shakes up their version of reality, and they try and drag you back to the way you were. I don't know if you've ever had this experience, but you might go away on a retreat like you did recently and have some real quantum shifts in your, the way you experience life. And you come back and the people who haven't been away and they're still the same, when they see these shifts in you, they can almost try and drag you back to the way you were before.

Um, yeah, that really, two examples come to mind for me. One was when Todd and I started our property investing journey and we're talking like 20 years ago now. I remember my dad saying to me, darling, be careful. One day you will owe $1 million. And I'm like thinking, oh my God, I owe so much more than that. Like I can't tell him, you know, what's going on. And, you know, often in the coaching that I had done in that kind of wealth creation, property investing space over the last, you know, 15 or so years, there was so many people that I spoke to and it was around how can I tell my wife or how can I tell my husband I want to invest in property? And a lot of the times when they were at the barbecue and people saying, what are you doing? Like we bought a house. The quorum tried to bring them down. They're like, you're gonna lose your money. Everyone loses your money. You know, what have you done? You're an idiot. Do you think you're one of the 1%ers? And when you say that in context of it's through their field of perception of you, the way that I used to explain is like they want to keep you safe. Like our paramount human biological kind of caveman thing is what do we need to do to keep us safe? And our brain operates, what do we do to keep us safe? And so they're actually doing it out of love and we become defensive and we become really upset about all of those things. And, and I remember when I left mining engineering and told one of my one of my best friends that I was becoming a mortgage broker to help people create wealth in property investing, to learn from what I'd learned. He was devastated. He's like, you, you were like, you know, you were setting a tone for women in the mining industry. Now you're becoming a secondhand car salesman. Like you've sold out. And I was like, wow, it shocked me that someone who was so close to me felt so strongly about a decision that I felt so strong about. So when you, when you say that, it kind of gives a, um, a precedent, not a precedent. It gives a, I guess, a, a foundation of when you are hearing the resistance that others are bringing, you can do it with compassion because they're actually doing it for the love of you or their perception of how they experienced you in the past.

Yeah. And they're, and they're, you know, mixed into all of that. Is also their beliefs, their ideals, their sense of identity, which we get very defensive over. If somebody, um, you know, is up in arms about you going into property, you know, buying property, it's only because they can't imagine themselves doing it, and they, they don't know what it is, and they've got their own preconceived ideas around whether it's good or bad. So whenever anyone reacts to, to us, they're really telling us a lot about themselves.

Yeah, wow, that's interesting, isn't it?

You know, and so you might have two people at the barbecue and one of them knows about property and they grew up in a family where their parents successfully invested in property, and they will have a completely different reaction to the other friend standing next to them. They might go, oh, good on you, that's great, that's so wonderful. That doesn't mean they love you more than the other person, that just means they understand you in that way. And it doesn't mean that you're even necessarily more connected. It's, it's not like, oh, you get me. It's like, no, they grew up in a house where their parents invested in property. They get property. So it's, you know, it's all of the above. And I think it's good to come from a place of, of compassion. And, um, and when people are worried about you, that let's, let's assume that they're coming from a place of love and they just want to keep you safe. Another thing that we can do is to generate ability to, to get better at not minding what people think of us.

Yeah. Okay. So you said something in the beginning and I wrote it down here because I was like, hmm, you have to have the conversation with yourself often that there's a change and things happen. My experience is a lot of people don't know self.

Yeah.

So there is that kind of awareness of I'm actually looking for others for validation. I'm looking for that reflection on that mirror to say you're okay, you're on the right path.

Yeah.

Very rarely. You have to be very aware of where you are and what your thoughts and feelings and beliefs and conditions and limitations are for you to have exactly what you said, which is I've got compassion for others because I'm okay myself.

Yeah. Yeah, completely. And I don't mind what you think of me.

Yeah.

You know, and so yes, the, the, the, the first place to start is the relationship with self. You know, understanding, getting to know yourself. What— who do you aspire to be? What are my core values? What is my sense of identity? What are my beliefs? What are— and, and as I'm exploring these and spending time, dedicating time through mindfulness meditation, through contemplation, through affirmation, through, you know, the, the neuroscientific practices to develop the internal, your internal world, which you can do, um, that as I dedicate time to this, my relationship with self improves, the quality of my state of mind improves. I'm curating and nourishing this internal peace, which means that I can actually see you more clearly, and I mind less what you think of me and I mind more about how I'm being, right? So rather than, for example, let's take one of the core values people talk about— trust. I don't need you to trust me. I aim to be trustworthy, right? Right. So my focus is on being trustworthy. Whether you trust me or not is your story. I don't need you to love me. I focus on giving, on loving you. I don't need you to be kind to me. I want— I will be kind to you. Do you know what I mean?

So when we bring back our efforts, you can only control what you can control, not other people's experience or how you turn up, right?

And if I show up each day aligned to my values, it doesn't really matter what you think of me, you know. Does that make sense?

Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting. I was listening to this podcast yesterday. Oh my God. Turns out it was like a 3-hour podcast. You know, you commit and you're in, you're like, when's this gonna end? It's like 3 hours later. So it was with, um, Navel Ravikant and, um, the podcast is Modern Wisdom. And right at the end, the interviewer said to him, you know, you've got young kids. What is it that you want for them? And he said, I want to turn up with unconditional love and curate curiosity and take them on a journey of questioning things. But I am not responsible for their experience and I'm not responsible of how they take that. I can only turn up in unconditional love. And I sat with that because it's exactly what you're saying is what you can only control what you can control. And if you are turning up in that way, you know, and even, you know, I remember I had many years ago some type of conflict with someone. I'm working in underground coal mines and I was talking to my parents about it and my dad was saying like, if someone is being so nasty to you and bullying and, you know, creating a real angst, just be the nicest, most loving person that you can be and it will make them sick, you know, in the end. And I was like, okay, this is like really, random. He said, but if you just keep turning up how you want to turn up rather than through you changing your behavior because of them, yeah, they're going to see that they can't break you down and in the end they'll come around. And it was interesting, this one person, you know, went from an absolute, you're a bonus burner, you shouldn't be here, women shouldn't be underground, you're taking the men's jobs, you know, you're terrible. And in the end, he, he, I was terrified actually. He said, come down one of the dark tunnels with me. And I'm like, okay. And he's like rummaging around in his overalls. And he pulls out this book. He said, this is about, uh, God, what was it? It was like, uh, the stresses and strains and force of underground openings on, you know, uh, that could collapse mines. He said, I've been keeping this to give to the right person, and I think you are the right person because you really, you know, you really respect what we do underground. If you are the engineer designing these openings, this could really help. I'm like, oh, thank God. I didn't know what you were gonna do. I trusted that I was going to be safe, but I kind of wore him down, right? By just being me. And, um, and I think that's what you're saying. If you continue to turn up, they're going to either take themselves out of your sphere of influence or even know what they do to you or say to you or whatever. And I know there's a lot of people in some very difficult, you know, physical traumatic situations, but, you know, being trying to keep who you are authentically and knowing who you are and how you turn up and not be responsive to that, then that allows you to live authentically and be able to be conscious of the decisions that you're making and conscious of the way that you choose to live your life.

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I love that you see me as a philosopher because I love philosophy. And as importantly, I love practical application of philosophies or concepts or, or ideas, um, that make sense. I'm interested in what do I actually do on a day-to-day basis to integrate that into the way that I'm living. So for example, sitting down and spending time contemplating and getting clarity on your core values. Is, I, I think, is a wonderful thing to do, really important. And then once you have that, to create an identity statement, an I am statement, that is founded in your core values, right? Because before you're someone's husband or wife, or before you're the corporate worker, or before you're the bus driver, or the tennis player, or the surfer, or the coach, or all of these roles that we play, before all of that There's a human being at the, at the core of all of it. And, and all of those things can be taken away, all of the vehicles around us, and, and one day will. And if you've identified with them, your sense of identity is on shaky ground. But if you've identified as, um, I am a kind, caring, generous, open-minded, loving, action-taking man which is my sense of identity, right? That can't be taken away from me. No one can stop me from being kind. No one can stop me from being loving. No one can stop you from those— from being those things, right? And it's not based on something in the future. I'll be complete when I've built that house, or I'll be complete when I've got that boat, or I'll be complete— like, it's not about the future. It's right now. There's no nothing in between you and your core values right now. So the practical application is that you put it on vibration, literally saying it out loud repetitively on a daily basis.

Yeah.

Because what you're doing is that when you say something, the corresponding neurons have to fire in that sequence to say those words. I'm kind, caring, loving, open-minded, action-taking man. So every time you say it, the neurons are wiring together to you know, quote unquote, and fire together. They're firing together.

They fire together, they wire together, and they build a superhighway.

Rather, they build a superhighway, right? So this superhighway then fires of its own accord. It becomes a belief, and our beliefs form our version of reality, right? And in the morning, when you look in the mirror after you're brushing your teeth and you give yourself a little pep talk, and you say, today I am going to aspire to be— and you list out your core values— because that's who I am. And you do this on a daily basis, you start to form a foundation of a sense of identity that's unshakable. So then when someone comes up to you, you're driving in the traffic and someone cuts in front of you and puts their finger out the window and screams at you, and you are completely unaffected. Or harder still, when someone you really care about, like a family member or a close friend, uh, reacts in a certain way, you can still be present with them and, and be loving them and listening and be curious about how they are. But I'm not, I'm not getting sucked into your emotional state of where you are right now and, and, and getting all het up about it. I'm still and calm because I know that I've got my integrity. And I'm listening and I'm present and I'm loving you, but I'm not taking it personally and getting all defensive and reactionary, if that makes sense.

Look, it does make so much sense to me because the, I guess, the journey that I've been on, this kind of culminates into some of the things that I've been practicing and observing in the last few weeks. So, um, I interviewed Satyarthi and he talked about the 5 poisons that stop us from being our authentic self, and one was greed. And he had this experiment for us to spend 7 days in non-attachment and listing down things you have if you've left everything tomorrow. And like, I've got to say, my first couple of days I was like, oh gosh, you know, what do I have? But by the, you know, 7th day I was listing down, you know, I'm curious, I'm tenacious, you know, when I make a decision I act on it. So there was all of these things that, as you say, can't be taken away from you. And they weren't values, but they were assets. That are undeniable, don't, don't, undeniably me. And the other thing was that this whole exploration through Swati and, and, you know, discussions I had with them around this soul contract, you make that commitment to yourself. You said, these are my values. This is who I stand for. This is what I'm here for. And it, it makes sense to me that your values and that I am statement. And if, you know, if we look at, say, even Neville Goddard's works, who talks about the fact that in the Bible they say, you know, I am 76 times, and they're reinforcing you are God, which seemed sacrilegious to me being a good Catholic girl. But then when you think about the fact that if you see yourself as the divine and you treat yourself as the divine and your authentic self with values and statements about this is who I am, then you start seeing that in other people despite the fact that they may be aware of themselves or not, or they're trying to put their opinions on you, you can still be compassionate and go, it's okay, that's your experience. And so you're not having this conflict or tension, you're just aware of the conversation going on. Hello, just a quick message. I hope you're enjoying this podcast bonus session. Now, If you have heard this interview, then you're probably sitting in there going, what is this all about? Well, this is all about my Exit the Matrix experiment. Now, I decided to write a book because I'm really interested in how do we go from the existence that we have now to exiting the matrix and living with intention from our hearts, following our heart's desires, but also creating abundance in all areas of our lives. And hence, whilst I've been researching this book, I thought, this is a really solitary journey. I want people to come on this journey with me, and hence I've got this very special group. Now come and join me. The first month for founders is free, and if you decide to stay, fantastic. So what I'm doing is I'm interviewing incredible people. I'm getting insights about what's this awakening that people are getting, you know, what is the exit the matrix kind of sliding door moment for them. Now I've obviously run this podcast for over a year now, and I have more than 30 stories but I'm also interested in those people who are in this transformational space who are actually not just awakening themselves and they're awakening others. What is the mechanism? As Bashar talks about it, it's the permission slip. Are they going through astrology or meditation or yoga or breathwork? Are they just going within and getting a sense of what's really going on? So that's what all the Exit the Matrix experience is about. I'm going to let you get back to the interview, but if you want to join me, go to exitthematrix.today. /etmwithme, which stands for Exit the Matrix with Me. So that's exitthematrix.today/etmwithme. Sign up. I'd love for you to come along. I'm creating courses. There's currently courses in there around 4D gratitude. There's more courses to come. I'm creating custom GPTs on how you can exit the matrix and helping you uncover what lies beneath your subconscious and holding you back, and also other custom GPTs that I'm sure you're gonna love. And most of the speakers are actually really motivating me. So I'm creating courses, I'm creating ebooks, I'm creating experiments you can try. I'm creating tools that you can use, and I'm also writing a book. So at some stage I'll get to writing the book. At this moment, it's just all about the research, and I hope you choose to join me because I'm really excited about this experiment. So I'll get back to the interview now. Enjoy yourself. And as always, here's to your success.

Yeah, more conscious of the conversation, which is leading us beautifully into answering one of your first questions. Just before I go there, a lovely addition after the I am statement based on values can be another statement, and I am on a mission to. Yeah, so that we get some clarity around our purpose.

Yeah.

Why do you Why do you think you're here? Now, this purpose can change over time, um, and, and it probably should. And I don't believe it's— you have to find it written down somewhere. I, I think you get to create it. You get to create your own purpose. And there's a whole process of, of work that I coach people through with that. But once you've understood why you're here, and there can be layers to your purpose as well, you know, like at the core, there can be some core fundamentals for you, and then it can like, like, um, like an onion. There can be layers to it, like the family, community, world, humanity, like, yeah, you know, or, and then your business. As long as they're all aligned and they all, um, can breathe together, then, then that's great. So, you know, I, I am, and then your values, a person, and I'm on a mission to insert here whatever you feel like your purpose in this life is, can be really helpful. And then when you need to have a conversation with someone, perhaps you want to communicate with them some of the changes you've been enjoying or working towards, or some of the, some of the, the new ways that you see yourself and life. And you care about this person because you're in relationship with them and you want them to— you want to share that with them. Say, a good place to start is, is to really be clear on why. Why am I communicating to this person, right?

What's the outcome? Is that the one?

Yeah, what's the higher— what's the higher reason of why? Let's say, for example, there's a, um, this is a different conversation. Just say your partner, your romantic partner, has done something, said something, or done something, and it's something they've done and said before, and you get triggered by it. Right, so now you've, you've been triggered. So you're either frustrated, um, or angry, and you initially think, I've got to go and tell them they've done that thing, and I've got to go and tell them I'm angry.

Why?

Well, because I want them to know that I'm angry.

Why?

Well, because I don't want them to do that thing anymore. Why? Well, because I don't want to be angry. Yeah, and why? Well, because I want to be calm with each other. Why? Well, because I love them and I, I prefer it when we're in harmony together. Oh, okay. So now we're getting to the real reason why you want to have that conversation with them. It's not to— not so they know you're angry. The real reason you want to have the communication is because you love them and you would prefer to be in harmony, right? So once you have the real reason why Because that changes everything, right? Everything. That then is how you lead into the conversation, right? I love you, and if I had a magic wand, you and I would be in harmony all the time. And I know we're humans and, and we sometimes trip over a little bit here and there, but my intention is that we're, we're harmonious because I love you. And, and if it's okay with you, I'd love to have a conversation with you about that.

Yeah, right.

So if it was, you've been on a retreat, um, you come back, you've had some spiritual enlightenment, and you're seeing life in a different way, and a friend of yours is trying to drag you back to the way you used to be, um, just say that friend of yours that you used to have a relationship with them where you would, um, talk negatively about life or other people, right? Gossip. You'd gossip and talk about the dirt of other people. And you used to be that person with them. That was part of your relationship with them. You'd go out for a cup of coffee and you'd sit there and bitch about people, right? And you don't want to do that anymore because you've realized that it's not the sort of person that you want to be. You've changed, right? But they keep trying to drag you back there. So you go, okay, well, I want to have a conversation with them.

Why?

Why? Well, because I don't want to be like that anymore. Why? Well, because I want to live a lighter, happier life. Okay. And why do you want to let them know that? Well, because I don't want them to keep talking negatively around me. Why? Well, because I'd prefer to be in this space. So you keep asking yourself, what's the highest reason why? And then you go to the conversation like that. So rather than sitting down with them and saying, you know, I don't like the way you talk negatively about people and I just can't be around you. That you come to the conversation like, do you know what, this life is short and we don't know when it's going to end. And I would rather spend my time talking about the positive aspects of life and people and you and me and the loves and the joys than sitting here and talking about people who are not here with us and, and the negative things about them. And I just wanted to share that with you.

Yeah.

So I'm not putting anything on you. I'm not telling you how you can be or not be or anything.

I'm just— in the past, it's just like, go forward.

Yeah.

Okay. So this brings up conversations that I've had, and I'm here, I'm reflecting on this, and I would say, you know, I'm, I'm new to a lot of this work in, in going deeper on different aspects of everything from, you know, science to spiritual personal transformation. My friends would tell you I've been listening to people like Tony Robbins for 30 years. But, you know, it's as I kind of go on this journey of more knowledge, often what will happen is I will, even with my husband, like, I'll be like, oh, I was working with my coach today. And he would, he, he illuminated the fact that I can't have what I want until everyone else is happy and satisfied. And, and my husband will go, yeah, but I've been telling you that for years. Or, or I'll talk to someone who's completely not into the woo and I'll go, God, isn't it amazing that, you know, your thoughts can create your reality? And they'll go, yeah, I've already always told you, you know, if you have an expectation, it will turn out. And I'm like, shit. And so often I'm like, oh, I want to drop this like golden nugget onto these people or this big self-awareness. And they're like, yeah, catch up, Jane. And then I feel defensive and I'm like, oh no, how do I, you know, how do I then continue this conversation so that I can still be open? Because I feel like I should be going, yeah, but you know, this person who told me this, they're like, they're enlightened or they're an expert or they're a guru or, you know, I had this big awakening. Like, I don't even know what that conversation is, but I often get, I find myself participating in these conversations where I'm thinking, oh, I'm dropping this this absolute wisdom bomb on someone and it's gonna change their life. And they're like, yeah, like seriously, like everyone needs that. Like what's that? What's going on with me, Jane Slack-Smith? Help me decipher that. Cause I don't know how to continue those conversations then. I feel like I should be getting defensive. And from listening to you, I should be going, why am I feeling that way? And it's like, oh, I like being the expert or the smart one. Or like, you know, what I really wanna do is convey this information and potentially then involve them in that journey with me too.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, look, it's very human. I mean, the number of couples where, you know, one has been saying something to the other and it's just been kind of like on deaf ears. And then the other one goes and experiences it and hears it from someone else and has the waking moment, goes, oh my God. And the partner's like, ah, you've been saying that for years. That's very normal. Look, I think If you get excited about an aha moment and you've got that gold nugget and you want to share it with someone, if you share it and they go, yeah, I already get that, you go, of course you do. Amazing. Look, it's just really embodied for me. Like, I've really only just got it now and I'd love to talk about it with you. Can we talk about it?

Nice. I like that. Cause it validates them and gives them an acknowledgement of where they are too in their understanding.

Yeah.

And then it opens a conversation. So it is interesting. I created a course many years ago that was about how to talk to your non-invested partner about property investing. And it was around how to acknowledge their kind of concerns and understand their risk profile and try to demystify the risk and etc. around investing strategically with research, yada yada yada, my whole process. But it was interesting because what I found, and this gets to this conversation where people are kind of going like, I'm not quite happy with my life, but I should be grateful because the kids are good. You know, my wife has an amazing job and she's happy and satisfied. I've got the accolades, we've got the car, we're doing the overseas trips, you know, or, you know, someone who's sitting there going like, I'm really comfortable being the stay-at-home mum and the 3 kids are thriving and, and hubby's loving his job and like, but is there more? Like, you know, it doesn't matter where you are on that financial spectrum. There's people who are going or listening to this or reading this book and they're going to go, how do I tell this person that things are changing? Like, how do they have that conversation?

Yeah, it's, it's, it's also very circumstantial and depends on the relationship, obviously. Um, again, I would, I would go to what is the highest reason why am I wanting to have this conversation.

Yeah.

And I would start there. But also there's, um, depending on the person that you're talking to, because really what you're addressing is the other person's uncertainty or the other person's unknowing.

But I think also in terms of, like, I'm going to turn up a bit different.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Look, I, um, I don't know, this— I see, I, I love deep conversations, um, and so the people that know me know that. And so for me, it might be different to someone who, who hasn't been into deep conversations, but I would be sitting with the person that— the person I'm in relationship with, whether it's my partner or a family member or whoever, or my kids or whatever. And I'd just be saying, you know, one of the— one of the most meaningful aspects of this life, being human, being here, for me, is evolving and growing and learning. Um, and we change, you know. And I look back to the version of me that I was when I was 20 and I'm really different, you know, and I'm, I'm kind of expecting that the version of me when I'm 90 will not be this version of me at the age of 50, you know. Um, and as I find things out and, and try and integrate them and practice them, all with the hope of, of becoming a better version of me and, and, you know, living a, a better life, an easier life as I go along, I change. You know, and I just wanted to have that conversation with you because I love you and care about you and, you know, and let you know that there's certain ways that I used to view life and, and myself in it that have changed. And I'd love to share them with you if you, if you're open to it. If you want to chat about it, I'd love to share it. If you don't, that's cool as well. But, um, yeah, I am going and changing. You know, people say don't go changing. Well, I am changing. Um, you know, and change is inevitable and it's a part of this whole thing. So I'd, I'd be opening up conversations like that with people that I care about.

Yeah, I love that. No, you, you do have methodology. You've got a book, is that right, about the methodology?

Yeah, it's in there. Is there's a methodology in the book, um, The Art of Conscious Communication, and there is the book that I'm writing now, the second book, which is How to Have That conversation. And that conversation is the one you've been avoiding, kicking the can down the road on. Um, that's the second TEDx.

Okay. Well, I'm gonna have to put some links below so people can check those out because I know you've taken me through this on a difficult conversation. I was gonna have the process and it gave me such, um, it was something I'd been worried about for years, the conversation, and it just gave me such a light feeling. And in actual fact, I didn't even really need to have the conversation I thought I was going to have. It just changed completely. So, okay. I want to go in a completely new direction of conversation right now because, um, I respect your time, but you, I'm going to take you through the journey of this awareness that I have because you, you're doing this, but I think as humans and we're going on this journey of life and we're having these experiences is we are conditioned for more. Like, we need more education and more money to have the bigger house, to have the better career, to have more enlightenment and more courses and more direction and more, you know, satisfaction and more help. Like, all of this stuff is more, more, more. And it wasn't until recently when I was introduced to the concept of the fact that in actual fact, rather than looking ahead creating these big visions and, and adding more and more and more. If we started taking off these layers that had been imposed on us and remember where we came from and our true essence of who we are, our I AMs, my values, what I'm here for. You know, it's this. And even, you know, I just was reading this morning in, you know, in the last month, the CERN, um, you know, I don't even know what you would call it. Um, proton accelerator. Um, it has just been able to take 3 protons off lead and turn it into gold. So we went from PB to AU. Alchemy, right? Absolute alchemy. And it was taking things away, not adding things. And I think we, we have this kind of this, um, perception that we need to add things. Now I know you take, you know, very high-level CEOs and, and extraordinary world leaders on back to your family village in the Himalayas, and you let them experience a huge experience of wealth and opulence, and then over the weeks of whatever you do with them, you shred that away. So you're obviously aware of this kind of removal. Can you just take me through that process because it's new to me and I'm looking at it from the eyes of a complete change of where, where we've been defined of what we need and feeling uncomfortable and needing more, more, more and still feeling uncomfortable and feeling almost like we're getting away from it. It's like you buy it, you save up to buy the big TV, you get the big TV, you got buyer's remorse, and then you forget you've got a big TV a week later, you know, whereas we should be kind of looking back and taking away these layers. So I'm just gonna throw, that's my kind of thinking that I wanna throw on you cuz I know that, that you do this as part of what you do.

Yeah. There's a beautiful, um, simple 3 words that we can flip around to, to help us with this. Most people, um, focus on these words in this order: have, do, be. So they focus on what they wanna have. I want to have the successful company. I want to have the exit. I want to have the house. I want to have the car. I want to have that kind of relationship. I want to have that kind of joy. I want to have these things. Okay, so what do I need to do to get that? Well, I've got to, you know, work really hard and I've got to run around and I've got to do the moonlighting job as well. And I've got to buy and sell properties and I've got to, I've got to remember to take my wife out for dinner and I've got to go and watch the kids play footy. And these are the things I've got to do. And I'm running around like this crazy person doing all these things to to try and get what I want to have, and that then in turn determines who I'm being, which is stressed out and drinking too much booze at night and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? The idea is that we just flip those words around. I'm going to focus— so we make it be, do, have. So if I focus on be, who am I going to be? That brings me into this moment right now. Who do I want to be? Well, I want to be kind and I want I want to be generous and open-minded and loving, and I want to be action-taking. So I'm going to be those things that determines the quality of what I do. So I'm more present in my relationships. I'm a better coach for my clients. I'm a better father and husband. And, you know, the quality of what you do improves because you were focusing on the quality of who you're being in this moment. And then inadvertently, you're more likely to have the things you wanted. you know, the successful business, the great relationships, the lifestyle that, that all just kind of whoops-a-daisy, look at what I've got. But I wasn't focused on that. I was focused on who do I choose to be in this moment. And, you know, the other beautiful thing about that is that, I mean, look, we're all going to die and we don't know when. You know, when my brother died on his motorbike, he was 30 years old. But he lived a wonderful life. No regrets because he was focused on the quality of who he was being. And I don't know when I'm going to die, and I don't want to spend my whole life always thinking about what I haven't got yet or getting more of. That doesn't lead to happiness. And then, heaven forbid, if my time comes sooner than I'm hoping, that I've wasted so much of but always wanting more, always feeling unfulfilled or unsatisfied. So we flip it and go on to the B part. Now, part of the process that Talia and I facilitate and guide people through is a complete unplugging from stuff, right? So we don't shred the stuff. We carefully and consciously remove the layers, but our clients do end up in the remote Himalayan mountains, um, with a small backpack and horses carrying the tents and the cooking gear and everything. And very, very remote, off the grid. Your phone doesn't work, 7 days' walk from civilization. And we— and through the coaching and the guidance and the program, we've un— we've unplugged from all of the stuff, you know, and, and brought it down to really just the I Am, full stop.

Yeah.

And that I Am is consciousness. That's, that's the constant that's always there, is the conscious awareness. Just the experience of being is at the fundamental, um, foundation of all of it. And that's where we get back to, just to that I Am. and then we carefully put all the stuff back on, but seeing through it now. So you can go back to your house and your cars and your businesses and everything, but you're seeing through it. It's like you unlock the key to the code of the Matrix, right? Yeah, you've exited the Matrix, and then you can go back in and you can play, but you see through it all.

Yeah, you know you're in it, and it's a choice, and it's a choice.

You know, and your happiness is not determined by it. You know, the joy, the joy and the fulfillment of existing has got nothing to do with the, the material stuff.

Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Because it then comes back to the experience of life and the experiences with others and your your presence in every moment rather than the doodads and the things and, you know, everything else. And yes, money can assist you in having better experiences, but if you have that, it's almost like having that abundance mindset of being abundant and being your true authentic self and being who you truly are, and then everything else flows.

Yeah, flows more easily and you access flow more consistently. I'm not saying that we should just sit in a cave and meditate and do nothing. That's not what I'm saying. If you do want to do that, great. And but most of us don't. I'm saying that you can have the essence of the meditation present while you're out there taking action and helping and contributing and building and flying somewhere and having fun and, you you know, or going through grief or pain or hardship or all of it. The, the, the sitting in the cave fulfillment, inner peace can be with you through all of it. In fact, it is, it's right there. It's just learning how to access it.

It, it gives me great comfort to think that you are taking some of these, you know, uh, leaders of corporations that are defining our consumer experience and giving them this experience because they cannot come back and not lead from the top and integrate some of this into those organizations and affect those people's lives and ours as consumers of whatever their products are.

Yeah, I look, this is on mission for me, which is to amplify positive ripples into waves of contribution. So even more now as I'm working with people of high net worth, and helping them get clarity around their meaningful contribution. So not just sending money to a random charity because you're hoping that it'll do some good and make you feel better because it doesn't work. What is, what is your philanthropy that actually means something to you? And there's, there's some fulfillment that comes from leaning in and getting on the front line of that. So, so by helping people get clarity on their philanthropy and their charity, Um, where we, yeah, we hope to turn positive ripples into waves of contribution.

Now you have your own charity.

Yes.

Can you just tell me a little bit about that?

So we've just this year, um, incorporated our first nonprofit over in the States. It's called the Center of Love and we're raising $250,000 to build the nonprofit meditation retreat center in our village in the Himalayan mountains in India. We, um, we've been playing a very small part to sponsor kids through school over there and, and provide access to education. And now we want to play a much bigger part. Uh, I've teamed up with a friend of mine who runs an amazing charity in India. Uh, his charity has put more than 7 million kids through school, um, and he's helping us, um, sponsor kids up in the Himalayan villages and, and help get access to education for them. And we're going to be channeling funds through our meditation retreat center over there to that end as well. So yeah, it feels good to be playing a bigger and bigger part in providing access to education and also conservation up in the forests up there.

But when we talk about your family in Himalayas, just like I know that you shared this in the podcast when I interviewed you, but you kind of stumbled upon a village, didn't you? Like, you were like hanging out in India for a few years, roaming around, and found your perfect family. Is that my recollection? Is that right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Look, I got a tip to this family from an old English hippie who had been, you know, backwards and forwards to India for— since the '60s. Yeah, this old English maths tutor. And I met him down the other end of India, down south. And, um, you know, we used to hang out together. And he— I had a little handwritten thing in the back of my journal that just said Old John, because that's his name was John and I called him Old John.

Old John, what, 45 or something?

Yeah, yeah, 28. I think he was probably more like, he was in his 60s, right?

Okay.

Old John, Old John, Krishna Temple, Naga, Himachal Pradesh. That's all I had. Old John, Krishna Temple, Naga, Himachal Pradesh. And I'd written it in the back of my journal, and 6 months later I was on a bus in Himachal Pradesh, and I had my Lonely Planet travel guide book, because this was back in the '90s, right, before we had phones and things like that.

It was the Bible.

Yeah. So I had the old big thick chunky thing, and I was looking in the map of where I was going, and I wasn't going to Naga. It was on the other side of the river. I was going up further up north, and I saw the word Naga in it, and it triggered it. I was like, ah, Naga! And I looked in the back of my journal, I went That's where John lives with this family in this temple. So I got off the bus and I hitchhiked over there and I went looking and I was asking the locals, where's the Krishna Temple? And they all kept pointing up the mountain saying, up, up, up, up, up. And I found this path in the forest and I walked up and I was going, where is this place? It's like a 45-minute walk up above this village to try and find this hidden temple in a forest on the side of a Himalayan mountain. And I came across this clearing and there was a temple and a house there. And, um, and a young girl came out who's now my sister. A young girl came out. She'd just been milking the cow, and she was there with a pail of milk, and she was covered in cow muck. And she calls out, 'Namaste!' And I said, 'John? John idha hai?' In Hindi, I'm saying, 'Is John here?' And she said, she's like, 'Haaji, yes sir!' And she calls out, 'Oh, John!' And John came, this old John came tottering out from his little room underneath the house and came out. He couldn't see me in the dark, it was getting dark by And anyway, I said, John, it's Jem. And I ended up living there for a month, going away and then coming back and lived there for 3 months. I went away and then I came back and lived there again. And that was almost 30 years ago.

Wow. Okay. That's a great, that's amazing. It's like following your heart, right? You get these little nudges and you're like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm going to put a pin in this conversation because I'm sure I'm gonna have come back my, my on-tap philosopher, Jem, whom, whom I adore. Thank you so very much. I, this has given me a lot. And it's allowed me to connect some dots as well. And that the power behind the conversation that you have in this transition period and having that higher why, that really gives me a lot of insight because there can be tension, not just internally, but in tension with relationships and even telling your boss you may not be doing what you thought you were going to be doing. So that really helps me. And also that concept of unplugging. And knowing who you are and your why and your values. And as you said, the resonance of the vibration. So I'm saying that, and, you know, when we go into those flight, fight, fawn, or faint kind of situations, having something very quickly to go to to say, how am I going to turn up like this? That just, that resonates completely as well. So thank you so very much.

You're welcome. Can I just add one more, one more clarification to the why? Yeah, the higher purpose why should be what's, what's for the greater good of all concerned. Try and, try and have a think about how will this communication benefit the other person. And if you can't think of a way that it's going to benefit them, maybe you don't— you shouldn't have the conversation. Maybe you just need to do the inner work to come to your own sense of peace. But if there's something that's going to— that potentially can benefit them, i.e. They get to, they get to be in relationship with an easier version of you, which makes their life easier, then, then, you know, be clear about what's in it for them and let them know that you've been thinking about them and what's going to benefit, like, what'll be good for them.

I appreciate that. Thank you so very much.

You're welcome, Jane Slack-Smith.

The book continues. Yeah. Awesome. I've got less questions now for this week. Thank you so much, Jim. I really appreciate your time. And as always, here's to your success. For those who are listening, bye for now.

Thank you.

Bye-bye, banana pie. Bye-bye, banana pie. Bye-bye, banana pie.

Thank you for listening to Exit the Matrix Stories of Success. Make sure you subscribe to future episodes at www.exitthematrix.io. Until next time, here's to your success.