The BEST Supplements to Build Muscle (Ranked Using Science)

All right, what's going on, everybody? And welcome back to the Built With Science podcast.

You're here with your hosts, as always.

Cha boy Max Coleman and other boy, D Money Plotkin. That is Daniel Plotkin.

Today we are going to be discussing.

Supplements that we recommend.

Supplement supplements that we either recommend or think that there may be some potential.

There, but it's just a little bit.

Too soon to tell. As well as some supplements that seemingly aren't going to do much for you, but we commonly see people using probably.

Aren'T going to be hurting your gains if you use them.

And then we'll very loosely touch on supplements that may actually be hurting you more than they're helping you.

Though we did cover those in another podcast episode that you should check out, talking about all the supplements that we see people using that are pointless and sometimes potentially harmful.

Before we get into individual supplements, I do want to quickly talk about the.

Difference between supplements and drugs.

Finding a quick, super easy definition for.

This is actually more difficult than you might think. So I may end up reading off the screen here, which can be a little boring. So I do apologize.

But a supplement is often considered something that is used to. You usually take orally, and it's something that you contain some sort of vitamin or mineral to supplement your diet, usually something that you don't normally get adequate.

Levels from from foods that you eat normally.

Right.

Whereas a drug is a substance that is intended for the diagnosis, treatment, prevention.

Or cure of diseases.

Right.

And one thing, one really interesting separation between the two is that if something is a supplement, the onerous is on the company to regulate that supplement. But if something is a drug, the.

Onerous is on the fda, the government that is depending on which country you live in to regulate that supplement.

So I think a really good rule of thumb that I heard was that.

A supplement is considered safe until proven unsafe, and a drug is considered unsafe until proven safe. I thought that was a pretty interesting way of looking at it.

Anyway, with that out of the way, we're going to talk about first the supplements that absolutely work. And obviously, big elephant in the room. Creatine is far and away the most.

Conclusive supplement regarding performance outcomes and hypertrophy outcomes.

And we have an entire episode talking.

About creatine, which is going to be the first episode released. So make sure you go and check that out before watching this one.

But with that being said, there are.

Other supplements that do in fact work and have pretty conclusive evidence for them.

Starting with caffeine, our favorite supplement.

My favorite supplement I Don't wanna speak for Danny boy here.

So Danny, why don't you go ahead.

And tell us a little bit about caffeine and its performance benefits.

Yep. So before we get into that kind of, you know, it's a sort of tradition where you sort of ramble on and then I correct you afterwards. So I'm not sure that the FDA doesn't regulate. Well, I, I'm actually positive the FDA does regulate supplements. It' I think you were correct in that, the analogy that you drew, that they sort of do it like posteriori instead of a priori. So the FDA definitely like supplements fall under the jurisdiction of the fda. But unlike drugs which on the front end they're regulated and they continuously check them with supplements, the ones that are on the market are like generally recognized as safe. And then until something goes wrong is when they can go and like, let's say you take a supplement off the shelf, five people report getting some sort of rash or going to anaphylactic shock or something like that, then the FDA will come in, grab those supplements off the shelf, test them and then impose sanctions on that company. So it's still definitely regulated by the fda. It's just how it's regulated is a bit murky. So yeah, there's not a really good solve to the, to that problem. But I think conceptualizing it as supplements are sort of like a cherry on top and not for the diagnosis of any sort of, or not for the cure of any sort of disease, I think is a, a good categorization. But the line is very blurry. So for example, if you're taking high dose fish oil for heart disease, is that a supplement or a drug? Does it become a drug when it's for disease? I don't really know. I don't really care either. So I don't, I don't know what it, what it would do for a person to know that like one thing is a drug and one thing is a supplement. So now we're getting into Phil, philosophical territory.

Yeah. And to clarify, like with a matter.

Of like hedging or not hedging your bets, but just playing it safe.

Like if you, if you are consuming.

A drug, you can be pretty confident that that drug has gone through FDA testing. But if you're consuming a supplement, it's possible that that supplement has yet to be regulated by the fda. Yeah, I got you a good point there. That being said, moving away from you just making me look stupid, you want.

To talk about the performance benefits of caffeine?

Yeah. So Caffeine, what is it? What does it do? What is it? So caffeine, generally speaking, is something that increases arousal or prevents you from being drowsy. You feel better, you feel more motivated, you feel more invigorated. And how it does that is it binds to adenosine receptors. So adenosine is a molecule that essentially causes you to be drowsy and makes you lethargic. So caffeine binds to that receptor and prevents adenosine from getting onto that receptor. So the mechanism of action, or what's believed to be the main mechanism of action, is just making you feel better. And because you feel better, you generally perform better. So we have tons of studies showing that power output, strength, amount of reps in the gym, all of those tend to go up with caffeine supplementation. Interestingly, there's stronger evidence in the lower body than there is in the upper body. And there's some evidence that perhaps higher dose doses. So the typical doses that are recommended are 3-6mg per kg of body weight in order to have performance enhancing effect. But as low as 2mg per kg has been shown to be sometimes actually just as beneficial as those higher amounts. So I think one takeaway is no need to overdose on the caffeine. 2 milligrams per kilogram is probably enough for most people to get a performance enhancing benefit. For the lower body. There's some weaker evidence pointing toward the fact that higher doses may be needed for upper body performance enhancing effects. So pressing and other upper body exercises. But I think the second category, so other than performance is fat loss. So there is an increase in metabolic rate, although it's slight from caffeine consumption. And there are some studies showing a weak but positive effect for fat loss with caffeine supplementation. So I think that there's probably very little downside and a decent amount of upside to supplementing with caffeine if it's not ruining your life. So I know there's some people that for whatever reason, if they chronically take caffeine, they notice that they can't be without it. And they essentially, anytime they're not acutely on caffeine, they're drowsy and just not feeling good. So as long as it fits in your life, I think it's a, it's a good idea and it has good evidence showing a performance enhancing benefit. But as you might want to get into, it doesn't have any longitudinal hypertrophy evidence still, which is super surprising. So there's no study taking people and having them take a placebo or caffeine work out for, train for eight weeks, and then test whether they actually increase more muscle. Because just because it increases performance acutely doesn't necessarily mean that it'll increase muscle mass over time. So if you're a master's or PhD student and you want to take on a super easy project, then please do so. So we'll actually have some longitudinal evidence.

Yeah, so it can just. It's no longer just bros talking about how much they love caffeine.

Also, I think there, there may be.

Some reasons why it hasn't been studied. I think there is nothing more unethical than asking someone to stop taking caffeine. So I think it's gonna be hard to get that approved through your IRB or ethics community. For our friends across the pond.

Also, we just spent five minutes talking.

About the difference between supplements and drugs. And then the first supplement we talked about is actually a drug. So it's unfortunate.

Yeah. So. So no longitudinal stuff looking at caffeine. But not only are there a lot.

Of acute studies to rely on here, but there's also just a really good logical rationale for why caffeine is incredible.

Why is it a drug?

I don't know, but it is. I wish, I wish I had an answer for you. I don't know what, what ailment caffeine.

Is trying to cure or treat, but it's considered a drug for some reason.

I guess the whole point is like, to highlight.

Yeah, who cares about what the difference between a supplement and a drug is?

Right.

But anyway, like a very strong logical rationale, like Danny Boy said, especially for dieting individuals. So I actually try to periodize my caffeine intake or.

Well, hold on.

I attempt to periodize my, my caffeine intake so that I get more of a benefit from it when I'm cutting.

Mostly from a hunger suppression standpoint, but it increases energy, it decreases hunger, increases.

Metabolic rate to a small extent, but it also increases pain tolerance to a certain extent as well. It's. It's a really good supplement to take when you're deep in the. In into a cut. It's. It's amazing.

Okay. Yeah. So aside from the acute studies and the logical rationale.

Yeah, it should be noted that there aren't any longitudinal studies, but it's still caffeine. It's still dope.

Um, okay, moving on to the last.

Supplement in the category of definitely works.

And also I wanted to note that.

These supplements that we're talking about caffeine, creatine, and this one, which is whey protein and other protein supplements are actually the only supplements that Danny boy and I take.

So just take the other supplements that we're talking about today with, you know.

A grain of salt. Obviously, we ourselves don't even take them, which is not to say that they're worthless, but we're not putting our chips into that basket is all I'm saying.

So, Danny, you want to tell us.

A little bit about whey protein and other protein supplements?

Yeah. So I think that regardless of the type of protein, protein in general, hitting your targets is super important for maximizing muscle mass. Making sure that you get your 1.6 grams per kilogram is a very good idea. So if you can get that through food, we definitely don't need to supplement. It's just it makes it exponentially more easier or exponentially easier to hit your targets with a supplement.

Yeah.

Now who looks like an idiot, buddy?

Exactly.

At least I know how to speak English.

It's called karma. All right, so I do definitely recommend protein supplements to clients for two reasons. One, to hit their targets. Many people have trouble hitting their targets, and two, because it allows you to hit your targets while being cognizant of calories. Obviously, protein foods come with other macronutrients. So if you eat a chicken, even if it's lean, you can conceivably get extra calories when you don't need them. So if you wanted the leanest version of protein, you could take a supplement, easily get 30 grams with, you know, a little over a hundred calories. So definitely not a must, but very, very useful tool to hit your protein targets.

Yeah, and unbelievably tasty. So for our younger listeners out there.

You may not remember a time where premier protein, pure protein quest protein fairlife were a thing.

Danny boy and I grew up when.

Muscle milk was our only option. And that stuff tastes horrible. No offense to muscle milk, but y' all are behind. Y' all are the oldest in the.

Game and the worst in the game.

Somehow. It's insane.

Good. Good luck. Good luck. It doesn't count as defamation if it.

Is just absolutely true.

Okay? So I will. I will note that there are even leaner protein. The. The leanest protein options that you can.

Get in shake form are typically terrible. There's one brand that I. I wish I could remember the name, but I bought a four pack of it, and I was like, oh, my goodness. Only protein is. All the calories are exclusively given from protein this is going to be the best thing ever. And it was the most disgusting thing I'd ever consumed in my life.

So most protein supplements though, really, really good.

I think the best I see is like 150 calories for like 30 grams of protein. Is like around the best ratio that I found for protein shakes.

But you can get better ratios from.

Things like shrimp and other like super, super lean fish.

But protein is also a really affordable.

Way to keep, to keep that stream of amino acids coming into your blood.

Right.

Okay. So just to reiterate, the supplements that do work whey protein or other protein supplements, nothing magical about them, but they.

Are just one of the most incredible and convenient ways of, of, of hitting that one.

Six to two, two grams per kilogram.

Zero, seven to one gram per pound of body weight.

Right.

Caffeine, incredible option, especially when dieting. In my personal opinion though, not a.

Lot of no evidence showing that it increases hypertrophy in the long term.

All right, so now we're gonna move into the what we've deemed maybe works.

Little too soon to tell.

Right.

And we'll start here with essential amino acids.

Right.

We covered branched chain amino acids in.

A previous episode, talking about supplements that most assuredly do not work.

But essential amino acids, the evidence is.

A little bit less clear.

There are really only studies examining the.

Muscle protein synthetic response to eating essential amino acids or consuming essential amino acids.

But there are no longitudinal studies looking at the comparing essential amino acids to protein.

Right.

With that being said, there is one.

Really interesting study where they took 10.

Older individuals and they had them train.

Three days a week.

But they all they were doing was analyzing their, their food throughout the course of the study and they just tried.

To find some correlation between the protein.

They were eating and changes in lean mass and the essential amino acids they.

Were eating and changes in lean mass.

And interestingly, they. The average protein intake throughout the course.

Of the study was right around 1,6 grams per kilogram. I think it was 1.65 grams per kilogram, if memory serves. So adequate, obviously.

And I think that the amino acid.

Intake was around 600 milligrams per kilogram of body weight, which for like a, like a 80 kilogram individual 170 pound, dude, that's around like 40 grams a day of essential amino acids.

Right.

And they actually found a stronger correlation.

Between the essential amino acids. So it was like a R value.

Of like 0.71and changes in lean mass.

Versus protein itself and changes in lean mass, which they found was around 0. 62, which is nothing crazy, Not a.

Huge difference there at all.

But a stronger relationship kind of just.

Pointing in the direction of maybe not.

All protein is created equal. Right.

So essential amino acids, we have no idea. But there's some promising acute studies, one we'll call it extremely loose longitudinal study, but also some good logical rationales as.

To why there may be value there.

So yeah, if you're someone who like me, I, I do not like eating.

Protein in the morning. I don't like eating much of anything in the morning. But it's probably a good idea to try and get that MPS response going as early as you can in the day. It may be worth supplementing something like an essential amino acid.

Okay, cool.

I'll stop talking about essential amino acids. Danny, do you have anything to add there for eeas?

No, I think you, you covered it pretty well. Yeah, we, we talked about how all the essential amino acids are necessary to continue to drive the muscle protein synthetic response. The BCAA episode. So we don't need to belabor that point. But yeah, cool.

Drive up clicks for the other episode too.

Smart man.

Okay, do you want to talk about like carbohydrate supplements? Any like carb gels and stuff like that?

You want to gloss over that?

Cool.

You want to.

Yeah. So I think there's very good evidence, contrary to popular belief in aerobic endeavors. So, so long, longer, longer runs. So anything over, I would say 30 minutes. There's weaker evidence, but definitely 60 plus so an hour plus. There's even some evidence with mouth rinses with carbohydrate and certain aerobic events. So I think that if you are not using some sort of carbohydrate and you're an aerobic athlete, that would be a mistake. But as it pertains to body composition and strength, there doesn't seem to be very strong evidence that you need any sort of carbohydrate supplement to maximize performance in the gym and to maximize increases in muscle size. I think there's weak evidence, but the rationale is strong enough that I would never recommend somebody be on a low carb diet if their goal was to maximize muscle mass. Even though I think some people think that that evidence is stronger than it actually is. But I do think that if you are trying to maximize muscle mass, it would probably be a bad idea to recommend it off offhand like that. But as it pertains to taking a carbohydrate supplement before a workout, I think that the evidence is weak in most cases and negative in a lot of Cases where there just isn't a performance benefit. And if there is a performance benefit, it's fairly small. There was another supplement taken with it. So, like, there's one study with BCAA plus carbohydrate that showed a benefit in rep performance and other acute proxies. So I would say that since it's just a macronutrient, if it feel. If you feel like it benefits you, I definitely wouldn't skip it. So if it fits into your calorie budget and you feel like it's benefiting you and you're in a lower calorie phase, you're not consuming as much carbohydrate. Getting some carbohydrate before a workout is not a bad idea at all. But whether it's actually going to be helpful hasn't been shown very definitively in. In the research.

Yeah, couple things there. So you mentioned mouth rinsing, and this.

Is just so interesting that I would like to. To. To touch on that.

For those of you who don't know.

What Danny Boy is referring to, is there.

There are studies out there, mostly, like.

He said, aerobic studies. So people doing, like, stuff like cycles, like. Like bicycling.

Right.

Or running or whatever it may be, and you actually see increased time to fatigue. So they're able to bike for longer.

Just because they rinsed their mouth with some sort of Gatorade analog, something like basic.

Some sugary sweet beverage.

Right.

Mechanism there. Who knows?

Maybe there's some cool salivary amylase digestion that happens just in the mouth. Maybe it's all psychological. Who knows?

But basically, you rinse your mouth and you don't even swallow it. You just spit it out and you.

See an increase in your time to fatigue.

Does that apply to resistance training?

Who knows? Evidence seems to suggest not so.

But like Danny Boyce said, more anecdotally, I don't.

I'm sure, Danny, you've tried a keto diet before. Uh, we've been in the game forever, so we. I mean, I know I've tried just about every diet out there.

Training sucks when you are in ketosis.

It is. It is awful.

Some people say, no, it's fine.

Just stay in the 5 to 10 rep range. 5 to 10 reps feel terrible even when you're in keto. So yeah, it's.

And also power gels taste delicious. I don't know if y' all have ever had those. I used to be a runner and.

They were like my favorite part of running races is basically the only reason I Ever ran.

So, yeah, I love carbohydrates.

I think they're amazing.

Evidence is not very strong, but logical rationale certainly is, as well as anecdotes.

You'll hear from almost anyone excited from fanatics who love keto, how great carbohydrates are.

Okay, cool. So, moving away from carbs, we'll talk about buffers. Particular things like sodium bicarb or bicarb.

Of soda, as they like to say across the pond.

Sodium bicarbonate, or more correctly on this.

Side of the pond referred to as baking soda.

There's very limited evidence. Well, first, Danny, you want to talk.

About kind of the mechanism there. My physiology friend of why buffers might be a really good idea.

Yeah. So when you do any sort of high intensity contraction, your body has energy system called glycolysis, which ends in the production of lactate and hydrogen ion. And a hydrogen ion. Hydrogen ions, when they accumulate, increase acidity. And that acidity can mess with the contraction dynamics of the muscle. So in order to blunt that acidity or buffer that acidity, we have essentially exogenous buffers that we can take and reduce that initial uptick in hydrogen ions. So you can get more reps and potentially increase muscle size over time because you're getting more reps. Interestingly, you can actually do this with hyperventilation. So there's some studies, I think two studies now showing that hyperventilating can increase the amount of reps you do, either in pushups or some sort of pressing exercise. I think one study did bench press, one study did pushups, and they did find an increase in reps to fatigue. The problem with all of these is, well, I guess slightly different categories. The problem with hyperventilating Beforehand is that the 1% chance that you will faint during that actual event is absolutely not worth the maybe.05 extra reps over time that may increase the amount of muscle mass you gain. And the issue with sodium bicarbonate is that the. I don't know, it might be. It's probably over 1%. The 10% chance that you have of having pretty severe gastrointestinal distress is just not worth the potential performance benefit. Even though it's fairly consistent in terms of especially like sprint performance and things like that. It does work. But whether it would actually amount to something that we can measure over time is a big if, but definitely not worth the gastrointestinal distress. Particularly because if in those times where you experience that gastrointestinal distress and you see this even in studies, performance goes down very Significantly, for obvious reasons. So just don't do it, I would say.

Yeah. So. So just to clarify some things. So for those of you who don't know, pH scales range from super acidic.

On one side, tons of hydrogen ions, to super basic on the other side, tons of hydroxide ions. Right.

And all buffers are.

Are on this side of not this far off. But they're just alkaline substances, very basic substances.

And you have those endogenously.

Endogenously as well.

So like Danny boy was saying, you have both blood and lung buffers.

So that's why increasing the rate at which you breathe can increase the amount of buffers in the blood, and that they can then neutralize all of those hydrogen ions in the muscle that are preventing you from being able to contract as efficiently as you can.

Right.

But some. It's led some to believe that if.

We just take a bunch of those.

Basic solutions as well, that can further.

Increase our time to fatigue.

Which it does work. But like Danny said, uh, I don't know if any of you have ever had severe stomach cramps, but it's way.

Worse than a couple extra hydrogen ions in the muscle. Like, it's.

That's gonna. Like he said, is gonna prevent you from.

From doing more than the. The hydrogen ions themselves will. So, yeah, really beautiful point there.

Yeah. Buffers, maybe. Probably not. Actually, you know what? These maybe even should have gone into.

Potentially hurting you, given the gastrointestinal distress that they cause. But again, it's just at least worth noting that there is some evidence suggesting that it does increase the amount of reps you're able to do before fatiguing. Maybe something worth trying, if you're interested, but it's not gonna make a huge difference at all.

Okay, moving on to what we call.

Nitric oxide boosters, and we'll start here with citrulline malate.

Right.

Similar to all of the other ones.

That we're talking about here.

Citrulline malate has some promising acute data, with some studies showing that it increases.

Your reps to fatigue compared to not taking it.

But, Danny boy, do you want to touch on kind of like why nitric.

Oxide boosters are kind of cool in general? Kind of what nitric oxide does in the body and why it's led some to believe that taking nitric oxide boosters like citrulline malate would lead to an improvement in performance?

Yeah. So they come in different classes. So nitric oxide boosters are substances that increase a gaseous substance in our mostly blood vessels, which can Dilate those blood vessels, increase blood flow and therefore allow, yeah, more mostly aerobic events to be improved. So, you know, things like time trials like we were talking about before, but also higher rep sets potentially, as you mentioned, can be affected. So there's multiple pathways that can lead to an increase in nitric oxide. You have pathways that are involved in increasing arginine levels, which are then converted into nitric oxide. Or you can take beetroot juice or eat your spinach and stuff like that, which also increases your nitrate levels. And so all those roads lead to an increase in nitric oxide, which can potentially boost some higher rep performance. But most of the evidence is like fairly weak and kind of all over the place. So it's not like we're going out of our way to recommend it, but it's just something that is in the maybe category where if stronger evidence starts to accumulate, we can start recommending it more. I think the evidence, again here, because of the mechanism of action and the trials that we do have, is much stronger in aerobic athletes than it is in anaerobic athletes or people who are trying to get jacked, lift the most weight and so on.

Yeah. And I don't know if you've, you've.

Heard any, any horror stories of, of people taking nitric oxide, but I have.

I, I've only, I, it's not like.

A common thing, but I have heard, I've had friends tell me that they take a, an, no booster, a nitric oxide booster and they almost pass out in the gym. They like, they, I, I, it's limited anecdotal, so to take that with a grain of salt, that it is. But I, I've just heard instances of people getting a little woozy, a little white in the face after taking a GNC nitric oxide booster.

Right.

Oh, I mean, I get, I eat so many, like, it's, it's kind of funny that, like, beets are really associated with, you know, increased nitrate intakes, but there's more in spinach. And I eat a ton of greens like arugula, spinach, and I, ton of tons of beets too. So you can, this is, I, I believe one thing that you can actually just get through your diet and not have to supplement too. So many people, especially if they're eating a ton of vegetables, unlike, you might actually be covering their bases just straight up through their diet.

So that must explain why your forearms are so big, because of all the, all the, all the, the greens that you're eating, man.

Yeah. Also like the couple Extra reps that.

You get potentially, or the increase in pump sensation that you get from taking nitric oxide, especially if you're doing beetroot.

Juice, is immediately outweighed by the fact.

That your teeth are now red. So it.

Is it worth taking?

Probably not.

But again, probably not going to hurt.

You if you do take it.

Okay, moving on now, away from nitric oxide, betaine.

And I have nothing to say about this, but you were involved on a huge paper about betaine, so why don't you talk about it?

Yeah, so full disclosure, I was minimally. I just. I just signed off on the paper and it just ended up being published. My boy Derek did the. The majority of the work on that paper, but yeah.

Shout out. Derek Van Avery. Canadians.

Oh, wow.

Canada's strongest athlete Canadians.

I think that. I think.

Whatever, bro. Forget it. It's not even a real better one. Yeah, it's not even a real country. Maybe one day Canada will let you.

Be a state if you're nice enough.

Exactly.

But, yeah, go ahead, Danny.

Go to war with someone and then we'll consider you.

Oh, our bosses are Canadian, aren't they?

Jeremy and Ethan are both from Canada, aren't they? Okay, we love Canada. We think it's the greatest country ever.

Shout out the Great White North.

But yeah, tell us a little bit.

About betaine, Danny boy.

Yeah, so betaine or trimethylglycine, the mechanism action is actually not super, super clear in terms of. It works on a ton of pathways because it's what's called a methyl donor. So it's involved in turning genes on and off. So I won't get too far into the mechanisms, but there is evidence, and I think stronger evidence in animal models that it can increase lean mass. So they give it to livestock and they hope that. That, livestock or not hope, they. They give it to them so that they can get a bit more jacked. And so it seems to be working in that arena. There's less strong evidence that this is the case in humans. There's some positive trials, some negative trials. Not too much of a signal there. But there is very limited evidence. So I'm not gonna say that there's strong evidence that it doesn't work. It just seems to be all over the place. I would say the strongest evidence is actually in a slight fat loss effect. So I think that there's. I think three trials on this. One was negative in that there was actually a slight increase in fat mass, and then two were positive in that there was a substantial decrease in fat mass. So not something to necessarily scream home about just yet, but it's definitely in the maybe category where performance enhancing benefits in terms of actual performance in the gym. Nothing to really say there in in terms of a consistent effect, a more consistent effect as it relates to body composition, but not enough studies to say anything super conclusively. So definitely in the maybe want more evidence category versus maybe and seems to not work category, if that makes sense.

Yeah, absolutely.

Cool. So betaine again, maybe.

Who knows.

All right, moving on to perhaps the most interesting supplement to me at least is vitamin D. Reason being is because.

Shout out my Stan Everding cooler friends out there.

But I used to love watching his.

10 minute walk videos and in one of them he was proselytizing just the.

Vast benefits that vitamin D have on. Geez, my apologies.

What is wrong?

I have no idea. Starbucks, I'm suing you for. Oh geez. Ruining my podcast. All right, so vitamin D does have.

A lot of really important functions within the body, specifically on both bone and muscle function actually.

So there was one study in the.

80S where they did muscle biopsies on individuals with vitamin D deficiencies and they.

Actually found a tremendous atrophy to their.

Type 2 muscle fibers. Right.

So clearly there is some link between vitamin D levels and the size, function.

And capacity of muscles.

Right.

We'll just let a lot of was.

The loss in muscle mass due to the low vitamin D or was vitamin.

D, who knows, who knows.

But there, I mean there also just has function. So like you also see that you.

You see a lot of involuntary muscle contractions occurring. There's a big fancy word for that that I'm sure you know something tetanus where in individuals that are also deficient in vitamin D. So who knows.

But there we don't know for sure.

Again if that atrophy did occur because of vitamin D deficiency.

But there does seem to be some.

Sort of link between vitamin D levels and muscle function which has led a lot of people to think that it would be really beneficial to supplement vitamin D for the purposes of muscle performance.

And we do actually there are a good number of studies looking at this longitudinally with somewhat promising results. So there's two meta analyses, one by.

Xiang et al and one by Chiang et al. C H I A N G and Z H A N G. I'm sure I'm pronouncing both of those names incorrectly. I apologize.

It sounded like you said the same thing twice.

It did. Zhang et al. And Qiang at all I think twice, but I have no idea if that's.

How you pronounce it. So I could be pronouncing them incorrectly.

Both of which did conclude with saying that supplementing, supplementing vitamin D is probably.

A really good idea for performance because they saw a lot of improvements in strength measures throughout the courses of all of the studies that they were analyzing.

Right.

But what they failed to mention in both of the meta analyses is that.

Almost all actually, no, not almost all.

I'm pretty sure all of the studies.

Done were performed in either winter or autumn months.

So period.

So for those of you who don't.

Know vitamin D, most of you don't probably know this, but we get most.

Of our vitamin D from the sun.

Itself, from sunlight, and some people get adequate vitamin D from fatty fishes.

But it's very, very rare for you to be eating quantities of fatty fish that are giving you the vitamin D levels that you need.

So they conclude that it might be a good idea to take vitamin D.

To improve measures of strength and athletic.

Performance, while failing to mention that almost.

All of these studies were performed in winter months where sunlight is very much hard to access. Right.

With that being said, it prob. Because vitamin D deficiency, even just like.

Finding like an actual definition for what it means to be deficient in vitamin.

D is kind of difficult, but it seems to be a very prevalent thing.

In general across the globe almost that.

People tend to have lower vitamin D.

Levels than you would imagine. It's not catastrophic until you reach a certain threshold where it's horrible and then you develop some horrible bone pathologies or rickets as a child, which is a.

Terrible thing, but probably worth supplementing. Vitamin D, if you're someone who lives.

In an area with very low levels.

Of sunlight, or if you are someone who, like me, hates going outside, covers.

Up all your windows with blackout curtains and is just essentially a vampire.

So vitamin D may help. It's actually probably one of the more.

Promising ones on this list for benefiting muscle function, particularly with strength. There's much less evidence supporting its effect.

On hypertrophy longitudinally, but it probably is.

A good idea to supplement with it if you're looking to maximize gains.

Right.

Especially in strength.

So anywhere from you can take so va. Vitamin D is a fat soluble.

Vitamin, which means essentially you can overdose on it.

So you don't want to just start.

Taking vitamin D levels like crazy. But vitamin D3 is a pretty safe supplement to use. Anywhere from 400 to 800 international units per day is a. Is a really good idea and it may offer some kind of performance Benefit though evidence is still a pretty, pretty unclear, especially in areas with a ton of sunlight. So I kind of rambled on there, I apologize. But Danny, do you have anything to add about vitamin D?

Yeah, I think baseline levels obviously matter a whole lot. So knowing your levels and making sure that you're in a range that is conducive to performance is probably not a horrible idea. So I know that for bone mass it seems like 20 nanograms per deciliter is like the bare minimum with different organizations saying you might want to be closer to 30. And then for athletes, people think that or athletic organizations recommend closer to, you know, 40 to 60. So whether that evidence is super strong, I'm not so sure. So I don't have super strong opinions on it. The reason I asked you about the low vitamin D in that context was because vitamin D is also an acute phase reactant. So like when things go wrong, it goes down. So was it because, did they have low muscle mass because of low vitamin D or did it go down because. Yeah, exactly, whatever. Some sort of pathology that was causing them to lose muscle mass. So there's a lot of reverse causality that's potentially present in a lot of these non longitudinal vitamin D studies. But with that being said, there are some longitudinal vitamin D studies that do so show a strength benefit. So I'm definitely not writing it off completely, but my guess is, is that it matters a whole lot what somebody's baseline levels are in order for them to actually experience a benefit. And I really, really highly doubt that we have any sort of granular. This is the number that you should be at in order to get a performance response. So the reason I put it in the maybe category is just because there's a lot of what ifs and it doesn't seem super clear to me that we have a good picture of when and who and how to, to supplement. Because you know that the, the number you recommended, 400, 800 I use, could be vastly underdosing it in a person who's like, you know, really low in vitamin D and gets no sunlight in it and so on. So I think it's a safe supplement. Like, it's really hard to overdose. You'd have to like go well out of your way to get vitamin D toxicity. So I'm not like one of those people that says that you definitely should avoid it because it's useless. But I'm not on the bandwagon just yet. And if you can get, you know, not burned but get adequate sunlight, I think that's the best way way of going about things just cuz your skin will actually not allow you to. So you can't overdose on vitamin D from sunlight so your body will just stop producing the calcitriol. Um, but yeah, I think, I think you summarized it fair fairly well. I just wanted to add the, the little caveats there.

Yeah, well the, the baseline level is, is super important.

So it's kind of one reason why I think vitamin D supplementation might be a good idea is because it's usually measured in like he's a calcitriol or calcidiol levels within the blood. And it is very common for people to have what we would consider a, I don't know, whatever is before deficiency but not adequate. There's I, they never remember what the actual word is.

But there is a, the majority of.

People seem to have some sort of below baseline what they would, what you would want to see for optimal athletic performance, though that number is unclear.

So supplementing with it, if especially cuz.

Like Danny was saying, it's really hard to overdose, it's probably not gonna hurt you. The prevalence of vitamin D deficiency is, is, is, is very, is, is very high. Which is why it's, you probably do see a benefit in some of those studies because like Danny said, baseline levels are super important.

It's why, sorry to ramble here, but it's why it's the same with creatine.

Individuals who don't seem to respond very well to creatine seems to be because they already have really adequate creatine saturation within the muscles and those that do respond really well to it, they don't. So it's similar, it's a similar outcome as vitamin D. Right.

Okay, moving away from vitamin D, we'll.

Talk about fatty acids, fish oils, stuff of that nature. You wanna, you wanna touch on those?

Yeah. So I think there's actually growing evidence, so I'm in the like maybe to positive category on this for muscle related outcomes especially in clinical populations. But some less but growing evidence even in healthy individuals where supplementing with fish oil can help with increases in strength and muscle mass. So there's a bunch of mechanisms of action. It seems like the mechanisms of action differ between populations. So you wouldn't necessarily expect the anti inflammatory effect to help healthy individuals as much as it would help somebody who's like older and has more like chronic inflammation. But it seems like both of those populations benefit from supplementation with more consistent benefits in older individuals and I think stronger evidence in older individuals in More clinical populations. So sarcopenia, a loss of muscle mass associated associated with older age. Do I think it's a slam dunk in terms of the, the, the effect? Probably not. But I think there's not a ton of downside considering there's other benefits of fish oil. People like to shit on it because I think the pendulum has swung in the complete opposite direction where people used to say that, you know, fish oil prevents heart attacks and all that kind of stuff early on.

You're going to die today because you missed your fish oil supplementation.

Yeah, exactly. And now we know that if there is an effect, it's probably not enormous. It, it, there seems to be a small but consistent effect from the, the studies that I've seen in of reductions in, you know, heart disease related outcomes. But there's also on the other side of the coin, some potential downsides for, you know, similar clinical outcomes. So I know there's some people that are worried about afib. So atrial fibrillation going up slightly from people supplementing the high risk of bleeding is, is a concern in some individuals. So there's definitely a cost benefit analysis. Is there? But cost benefit analysis there. But I think that the benefit probably outweighs the cost for, for a lot of individuals from a health standpoint. And then you add on the fact that there's some growing evidence in strength and muscle size where I'd put it in like, I don't know, B minus category at the moment where if you have the extra cash and particularly if you don't eat any fish, it's probably not a bad idea.

Cool. Cool.

Yeah, so that pretty much concludes the maybe.

Maybe works well, actually I do have sleep aids here. We can talk, we can touch very briefly on sleep aids. Very anecdotal here. I want that to be. I want very anecdotal. This is my opinion. This is not evidence based on conversation happening here.

I'm someone who struggles with getting quality sleep.

I have for as long as I can remember.

And over the last year or so.

I have started taking a sleep aid, prescribed sleep aid. So keep that in mind. I'm not telling you guys to go buy Ambien or try and get prescribed Ambien and start taking it every night. That's also not what I'm prescribed.

That has tremendously improved the quality of life in general, but also. Or my quality of life in general, but also has at least correlatively really.

Improved both my performance in the gym and my physique. I can say pretty confidently.

So I'm a big fan. If you are someone who really struggles.

To get a nice quality 8 hours of sleep in a night, it's maybe worth considering something like melatonin. Or if you're someone who really struggles with sleep, obviously consult a doctor about that because that can have, as we know, pretty drastic impacts on your performance and on your body composition.

Yeah. So potentially, do you have anything you.

Want to add there as far as sleep aids are concerned?

Yeah. I don't believe you. You got better sleep and your body composition and strength.

Oh, I totally forgot. I also started taking trenbolone acetate in the last year. That, that I, I probably should have.

Mentioned that as well. No.

Yeah, sleep is completely useless. So I don't believe that your higher quality sleep is doing absolutely anything for your performance.

To be fair, you caveat that it.

Was completely anecdotal because I'm really annoyed at the fact that you would even suggest that better quality sleep would even do anything for your.

I need it stated for the record here that none of this podcast applies to Danny Boy. Daniel actually doesn't eat. Do not be confused by the green.

Tea that he is drinking throughout the course of this.

That is actually motor oil. Daniel is some part organic compound, some part artificial intelligence, and he learned to photosynthesize somewhere around 1973. He had a fission battery or, sorry, a fusion battery placed in him sometime in 1983 as well. That precludes him from either needing sleep or food. So take everything he says with a.

Very small grain of salt.

But anyway, moving away from.

Oh well, sorry, do you want to say anything about sleep aids? Genuinely?

Yeah. So obviously if anybody's having any trouble sleeping, sleep is super important for, you know, physique and strength outcomes and all kinds of performance and health outcomes. So if you are not getting your, you know, seven to nine hours of sleep and you feel like you need any sort of aid, sleep aid, I would definitely consult with your doctor and make sure you, you get that right. So sleep super, super, super important for performance outcomes. So I think melatonin helps with sleep onset but doesn't necessarily change too much as it relates to the quality. So I'm not familiar with, I, I, I've read the literature, but I'm not super familiar with the literature on the different drugs and how they affect. I know some can help sleep induction but actually reduce quality and so on. So I'm sure there's going to be a lot of trial and error with working with your doctor and making sure that you get you know the right combination of, of drugs to make sure that you get those quality hours. So. Yeah, cool. Yeah.

Yeah.

So that, and again, I just want to clarify once more that this, we.

Have very little research to support what we're talking about right now. These, we're, we're, we're relying on, on mechanisms of action here that are, haven't been directly analyzed specifically to sleep aids.

Now there, there are very, there are.

Multiple studies looking at sleep's effect on performance and physique, but supplementing with sleep aids, that, that's where the research is limited.

Okay, that concludes the maybe works, but.

It'S a little too soon to tell.

We're very briefly going to go over probably not, but probably isn't hurting as.

Once again we kind of touched on most of these in the Supplements that Don't Work podcast that we did. So make sure to check that out first.

We'll start here with branch chain amino.

Acids, everyone's favorite water flavoring supplement. So Danny boy, why don't you tell.

Us why branch chain amino acids probably.

Aren'T making you any more jacked.

Yeah, so we did a podcast on supplements that aren't very good and we talked about BCAs for pretty decent time. But I'll sort of give the Cliff notes there. So BCAAs, three branched chain amino acids that help raise protein synthesis. However, the problem with having just three branch chain amino acids or three of the essential amino acids is that you're only getting three. So there's nine essential amino acids and you can actually have a situation where those high doses of essential branch chain amino acids can prevent the uptake of those other essential amino acids. So there's even some data showing decreases in muscle protein synthesis with supplementation of branched chain amino acids. But I think the main takeaway, regardless of the mixed evidence on muscle protein synthesis is that if you're consuming adequate protein, you definitely don't need branched chain amino acids. But if you're going to reach for a supplement that has amino acids, you probably want to get all the essential amino acids, which is what we were talking about with the eaa. So it seems like a no brainer that if you're gonna reach for something and you're maybe on teetering on the edge of getting adequate protein, reach for the eaa, not the bcaa. So I think that's sort of like the, the Cliff Notes on that.

Yeah, really well done and really like we're really glossing over here because again, we covered almost all of these already in, in a separate episode.

So Beta alanine.

Recent meta analysis. It was a meta analysis, right. Did we confirm. Yeah. So recent meta analysis coming out showing. Came out that showed. Yeah, it's not really improving body composition, performance or hypertrophy.

And there are not a ton but.

A good number of longitudinal studies comparing beta alanine to a placebo.

That being said, if you're someone who.

Just loves that tingly feeling during your.

Workout, I'm not gonna stop you from taking it. Cause it's probably not hurting your gains.

But outside of that tingly sensation that you like, it's probably not helping you.

A whole lot either.

Do you have anything you want to add there about beta alanine?

Yeah, so I think maybe spend a little bit of time on it just because it's, I think it's super popular and it's commonly in pre workout supplements. So Beta alanine is a substance that increases muscle carnosine levels. So we were talking about buffers before. Carnosine is a buffer inside muscle. So beta alanine gets converted into carnosine and then it needs to actually be saturated in muscle, similar to creatine. So there's two issues with putting it in a pre workout. One is that even when taken appropriately, it doesn't seem to do anything. But most people don't take pre workout every day. So you're not even getting that saturating, saturating effect. So if you're not getting that saturating effect, it doesn't work like caffeine. It's. If you take it before the workout and the carnosine levels aren't saturated in the muscle, then you're not going to get that performance enhancing benefit similar to creatine. If you don't. If your creatine levels are not saturated and you take creatine before the workout, it's not gonna work because the mechanism of action is due to the saturation inside the muscle. So two pronged there. One, even when taken appropriately, it doesn't seem to have an effect. But it's commonly in pre workout supplements that people don't take on an everyday chronic basis. So yeah, lots of issues with how people commonly consume it.

Yeah, I think, I think people think.

Of it as an acute ergogenic aid because of the, of the tingling. So once again, if you like the tingling, we're not telling you to stop taking beta alanine. Be our guest. Just keep in mind about why you're doing it as all similar to like foam rolling and stuff like that.

Yeah, it's actually the most common complaint that Jeremy got for his pre workout, he told me, he's like, everyone's like, oh, where are the tingles and stuff like that. So apparently also the T, the taste, it does change the taste profile too. So cool. I don't know.

Cool.

And then last supplement here that we'll.

Talk about in the. Probably not, maybe not hurting is just multivitamins in general. Your Flintstones, your gummies, stuff like that. You want to touch on multivitamins?

Yeah. So from a performance standpoint, I, I doubt there's anything going on there in terms of positive outcomes. Like, most people that are consistently resistance training are probably not like super deficient in any sort of vitamin. Like they're not starving unless they're, you know, super deep into contest prep. Then a multivitamin might be more necessary. People like to crap on multivitamins a whole lot and say they do absolutely nothing and they're expensive pee. But when you look at the evidence there, there are some outcomes that are positive with consistent multivitamin consumption. The problem with this evidence is that a lot of the time you're making adjustments based on things like socioeconomic status. And so I don't think it's the, the strongest of evidence necessarily because the kind of person that would take a multivitamin might be more likely to be healthy and so on. So I would say that if you're trying to cover your bases, particularly if you are in a aggressive diet phase, go for it. But for the most part, definitely not a must. Like everyone that you know, anytime an influencer comes on, like, make sure to take your multi. Like, that's probably not the best advice. It's at best, you know, in an insurance policy that is, you know, a slight hit to your pocket. And at worst, you know, there's tons of things in a multivitamin, some that are negative and some that are positive. So do we know what all of the, you know, that cocktail of vitamins is actually doing to our risk over time for different pathologies? Definitely not. So that's why we put it in the maybe category or possibly even a waste of money category, because we don't really know. There are. There is a signal of some benefit, but definitely not to performance and potentially a waste of money.

Yeah, and it should be pointed out that like they're not expensive.

Like branch chain amino acids. That's expensive. P. You know what I mean? Like that those are actually like.

And not to mention like you buy a tub of branched chain amino acids that lasts you a month, two months, you buy big old thing of Flintstone Vitamins from Costco and you're set for till your grandkids graduate from high school. Essentially they're very affordable. But okay, yeah, I couldn't agree more.

And then finally we'll just touch on. Doesn't help.

And potentially may actually be harmful, starting with something like a test booster, for instance. So you want to gloss over those.

Yeah. So I think the reason why we say it could hurt, I think it's sort of counterintuitive in that if it works, it might help.

It really help.

Yeah, exactly. It could really help. And the reason why it's really helping is because there's some sort of anabolic steroid actually within the substance. So you want to know what you're taking obviously. So if you don't know what you're taking and the test booster is either tainted with a supplement or there's a supplement or steroid that was deliberately put in there in order to get you hooked on the substance and in order for it to work, then obviously you don't know what to do when your levels are out of whack and you, you know, you're wondering why you have some extra fat tissue around your nipple area and so on. So definitely not something that is recommended because one, if it's working then it might have negative consequences that you weren't ready to accept. And two, if what's on the label is actually only what's on the label, then it's probably not working. So there doesn't seem to be a significant upside regardless of the situation there.

Yeah.

And then, and then like basically we.

Don'T even have to like touch on it for too long.

But fat burners are the same way.

Where like you're probably not taking anything.

But if you are, you'll know it.

Because your core temperature will be hotter than it was the day before. You'll be miserable, you'll be antsy, you'll be sweating like crazy. And yeah, you're taking a drug like potentially something that especially if you compete in any drug tested federation you could fail a drug test for. So those are definitely, unless you have, I mean not much to add there I'm assuming, but probably just stay like.

We, we almost none of these, we've told you just stay away from including branched chain amino acids that it's probably.

Fine but like don't take it because it's, it's probably just expensive for no reason.

But test boosters, fat burners, stay away from them. Or unless you are like interested in.

Taking steroids and, and fat burners for competition, then you're not taking over the counter test boosters and fat burners. Right, Cool. Yeah. So that, that concludes the potentially harmful too.

So I'm just going to run through a summary of the ones that do.

Work, which is just keep in mind.

Like these, not even all of this.

So for instance, like caffeine doesn't even have longitudinal evidence.

So even within the three of the.

Definitely works category, one of those is still pretty speculative as far as long term hypertrophy gains are concerned.

So those that definitely work, the ones that Danny boy and myself take almost.

Daily are creatine, caffeine and actually, you know what, now that I think about it, we take it every single day. I think creatine, caffeine and some sort of protein supplement like whey or casein.

Right.

And then the rest, especially those in the maybe works, but it's too tuned to tell. Probably not going to be hurting yourself.

If you're taking something like an essential amino acid or carb source or a sleep aid or a fatty acid.

But we just cannot tell you confidently.

That those things are, are going to make a wild difference in your performance or your physique.

Right.

And then finally, just don't waste your money on things like branched chain amino acids.

Those are the ones that I'm most confident in saying just don't waste your money on. Because even beta alanine and multivitamins, you know, who knows?

And then of course, just stay away.

From test boosters and fat burners. You got anything you want to add as far as summary?

I think just a general way to go about looking at supplements. It might be, you know, useful to people. So I think being a supplement skeptic is usually generally a better way of going about doing things for a couple of reasons. One is that most things are found to not work, you know, so it's better to wait than to waste money and potentially put yourself at, you know, some level of risk. These are not substances that are tested for a very long time in individuals to see what, you know, outcomes are from a health standpoint too. So given the fact that if they do work, it's a very small effect and there's a cost associated with it, I'd rather wait and see than jump on every bandwagon early on. So just keep in mind that we're coming at this from, with a skeptical lens. Like potentially we'd have more supplements on our, you know, B category if we were being less skeptical about, you know, the category in general. But I think that most people that have been in the industry for a while, sort of become more and more skeptical and reduce the amount of supplements they have in their A category as things as their career, so to speak, moves along. So if you find that a supplement that was on our maybe categories working really well for you, and you personally know that you, you enjoy taking it, you receive benefits, and you know the risk isn't very high, definitely go for it. But we're just sort of underlining the fact that these effects are small and not consistent in studies, and therefore we're not willing to jump on that bandwagon just yet.

Yeah, and I'm really glad you said.

That, because I want to touch on the other end of the spectrum, which I know I found myself on, especially like late high school or early undergrad, which was like, all supplements are pointless. Like, what's the point?

Like, there's no, there's no evidence showing.

That essential amino acids are a benefit. So they're definitely not a benefit. Like kind of falling into the evidence of absences or absence of evidence is evidence of absence category of thinking. Right.

So while we do want you guys to be skeptical, don't go off writing.

Away things immediately just because there's no evidence on them.

But I do agree you want to.

Lean more towards the being skeptical and.

And maybe waiting for science to show.

You that things are doing really well rather than wasting money.

Right, but.

But again, on the opposite end of the spectrum, it took like. So I think mass anabolic steroid use.

Kind of, you saw a huge uptick in the 70s, and it wasn't until I believe, the. The late 90s or so that evidence started coming out showing how good anabolic steroids were at increasing muscle mass.

So science is slow, but again, it's.

Better to be on the. On the side of the side of skeptic.

Right.

Okay, cool. So that was a really beautiful wrap up there. Remember, creatine, caffeine, whey, protein, they're your friends. The rest of them, they're your acquaintances. Thank you guys so much for listening. If there's a topic that you guys.

Want us to cover in the future, please feel free to reach out to us at Built with Science on Instagram.

And yeah, peace.

We'll catch you next time.