Bullyology Podcast Episode 6 - From Silicon Valley to Sober Solopreneur with Brooke Taylor

Hello and welcome to episode number 6 of the Bullyologist podcast. I am your host, Jessica Hickman, and today I have got the lovely Brooke Taylor who's joining me. She is a coach, speaker, and consultant for emerging female leaders and entrepreneurs. We met a couple of weeks ago at an event I was speaking at and naturally clicked and aligned. Brooke has got an interesting story about growing up in Silicon Valley, the tech hub and she is going to be sharing the dark side, side of overambition. Thank you so much for joining us.

Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited.

I'm so excited as well. Your story is fascinating, and look, do you want to share it with us? Let's go back to life in Silicon Valley and how you ended up here in Australia.

Yeah, so it's quite a story. I grew up in Silicon Valley, so that's Palo Alto, California, Los Altos, California. And I grew up there in the '90s, so around the time when all these big companies were kind of emerging. And there was this ethos in the community around the fact that if you can imagine it, you can build it. So there was a lot of emphasis on achievement, a lot of emphasis on creation, hyper-masculinity in terms of kind of going out and making things happen. And while that was really inspiring and a really kind of cool thing to grow up around, And I think some of the messaging that I got was very much around suspending my kind of femininity. And as we know, there's kind of a masculine approach whereby you can kind of go out and make some things happen. And the feminine approach is much more kind of in a receptive, attracting, kind of more energetic approach. So growing up in Silicon Valley to a wonderful, loving family, one of the messages that I got, not just in my family structure, but in the society that I grew up in, specifically at school and stuff, was that success equaled love and belonging. Because what I saw around me was so many people who are going out and making things happen, succeeding, and they're being praised for it. So that kind of, um, that kind of example I really took on and was very much marinated in as a young kid. And, um, you know, when I would bring home grades, um, that were you know, good ones, I would be met with applause. And if I brought home grades that weren't that great, um, you know, I would be really disappointed in myself. So I'm sure a lot of people can relate to, to that. And I think that a lot of really ambitious women have that kind of same story of, if I'm not achieving, if I'm not succeeding, then I'm not worthy of something.

Yeah.

So, um, what this kind of created in me was this, what I call like this manic ambition operating system, whereby I was very much taught, like, our mothers and our grandmothers and our sister suffragettes all fought really hard to give us all opportunities, and women in this day and age can go out and do anything that they want. And because they can do anything that they want, there's almost this tacit implicit that they should go out and do anything that they want. And so what this kind of taught me was I have all this expectation on myself. I've been given every opportunity, so I have to go do something great. But the problem is that I didn't know what that something great was gonna be. And I think a lot of people have that too, whereby, you know, people feel like they're meant for something great, but they're not exactly sure how to get there. So I was kind of running around university and after university kind of being like, are you my purpose? Like looking everywhere under every rock being like, what is this something great I'm gonna do? So this created a lot of pressure. It created a lot of, you know, if I don't get the straight A's, if I don't get the good job, then I'm not, again, worthy of love and belonging and I have to go do something great. So this pressure, I wasn't really, I don't think a lot of kids were taught, at least when we were growing up, how to self-soothe. How to relax, how to let that pressure go. So I didn't know how to turn off, and one of the ways in which I learned how to turn off that was super easy was with alcohol. So I really kind of, when I went to university, found alcohol as a really great way to let loose. So studying in the library and then going out and partying really hard.

Like many people in university.

Yeah, absolutely, and I think the university system is I wish that they would teach kids how to self-soothe and how to release the pressure in a healthy way because that's the only medicine that I found. So this really led to this kind of dualism whereby I had to go achieve something great, but I didn't know how to release the pressure. So alcohol and rarely much, it became my crutch. So this kind of continued and I took a couple different internships and roles both in government, startups, and was able to kind of rise the ranks at this big tech company that I joined right out of university. And my identity was very much caught up with this idea of being an achiever and being a party girl. So people knew me as being this overachiever, somebody who could, accomplish anything. And then on, you know, Thursday through Sunday was, you know, at the bars. And those were my two identities. So, um, it led to some really kind of scary things, to be honest with you. Um, you know, in order to medicate that, um, if I'm not succeeding, I'm not worthy, I engaged in some really reckless behavior. Um, and that even actually amounted to in a workplace situation where I didn't want, I wanted to, again, succeed at all costs such that I was actually harassed in the workplace and I didn't report it because I didn't want to rock the boat. I didn't want my reputation to be at stake. I thought I would get in trouble. I thought that if I did report it, for whatever reason, that would affect my career and that would be like the worst thing ever, right? Because— I needed to succeed at all costs, so I just kind of pushed it down and soldiered on. And one of the ways in which you and I jive so well is the fact that, you know, bullying and workplace— workplace bullying and workplace harassment, although they're two very— although the circumstances and the situations are different, the feelings are very much the same.

Yes.

Yeah, so it's the feeling of confused, feeling disillusioned, feeling like, wow, did this really just happen to me? And the person who harassed me was actually in a position of authority. And so you kind of assume that, especially when you're young in your early 20s, that those are the people who are trying to keep you safe and that they wouldn't dare do something to you. So I kind of internalized that as, oh, maybe I misunderstood it, or maybe it was my fault even.

Yeah.

So that really, um, that was really difficult to kind of come into work every day. I think I was suffering from some like mild PTSD, um, and Yeah, I don't know if you can speak to that.

Yeah, um, that's how we kind of connected over our stories as well. And the fact that you felt extremely isolated and the person was a manager in a power position. And I think you said to me the first time we met that you actually apologized for what that person did, and because you, you were made to believe that you had somehow done something wrong. And I could connect with that where I was consistently retracing my steps thinking, is it my fault? And then the isolation you feel and where you wanted to suppress that memory um, but it's not as easy to do as suppressing. And how did you eventually find your voice to speak up about this? Was there a point where you realized that this behavior that you was doing as self-medicating, and, you know, in the workplace, you know, he's overworking, drinking, suppressing— was it a tipping point where you realized that this isn't okay, I need to find my voice to speak up? Like, what tipped you over to that point from silence to finding your inner voice, I guess. [Speaker:JESSICA HICKMAN] Yeah.

So it's a really cool story. We have to kind of take it back to when I was studying abroad in South Africa. So I studied in Cape Town and had had a really scary night out one night. And I woke up the next morning and feeling that kind of demoralization. And I did what any kind of self-respecting millennial would do, and I went on YouTube to try to find some answers. And I found this TED Talk by this beautiful blonde woman who kind of looked like a future me. I really identified with her, and she was saying that she was able to stop drinking, um, through a relationship with a higher power, through a spiritual connection, and through meditation. And something in that message just pierced my heart, and this flood of remembering kind of came back into me. This is what I would describe as a spiritual experience. It very much catalyzed my spiritual practice and my meditation practice that I've had every day for the last, you know, 8 and a half years.

Wow.

So, um, but I kept drinking. So although I felt I, I knew the solution was through, um, meditation, spiritual practice, all of that, I kept the meditation but I kept drinking because I wasn't, I wasn't done yet. So I continued for 4 more years, moved to New York, and, um, you know, things just kind of kept spiraling from there. I was working really hard and drinking really hard, and eventually it just kind of hit a bottom, and I needed— I knew I needed to ask for help because I knew that I couldn't do this anymore. So I ended up getting tickets to see that woman speak, the woman who I saw on the TED Talk in New York, and she had been kind of like my role model for the past 4 years. So I went to go see her speak, and I'd had another bad night the night prior. Kind of scary. And I went into the church where she was speaking and came up to her afterwards and said, "I think I have a problem with drugs and alcohol. Could you help me?" She gave me a number and she helped me to get sober. So I was able to get sober from that day on, February 22nd, 2016. I haven't had a drink since. And so It's a long-winded way of saying that after I gave up the alcohol, I went straight into the work.

Yeah.

So the work, um, I— even though I gave up the alcohol, I needed something else because I still hadn't fixed the operating system that was causing the addiction in the first place. So, right, that success equals love was still very much present. So I think I might just talk a little bit about addiction. Yeah, as it is. Please do, please do, because I think there's, um, a big misunderstanding around what addiction is. Okay, pause for a second. Let me just regain my thing. Okay. So addiction is kind of a three-pronged disease as I understand it and as the community that I got sober in understands it. So it is a physical allergy without— to alcohol. It is a mental obsession and it is a spiritual malady. So the first, the physical allergy, when I drink alcohol, it metabolizes in my body differently than it would for somebody who's a very normal drinker. So my mom, she can have a glass of wine and take it or leave it. Me, I have a glass of wine and I either get really sick or I need another. So that's— That's the physical allergy part of it. The mental obsession is that with addiction to either work or to alcohol or to shopping is that my mind obsesses about it. So I think this is very relevant to the workaholism conversation because even if I'm not working 8 hours a day in that, you know, back when I was in the throes of my kind of work addiction, I was obsessing about work 24 hours a day. So that was, I was running on a loop, like how I could win certain awards, how I could push a little bit harder, how I could prepare for certain meetings differently. And to be honest, I still have a little bit of that today. We were talking before this is that I had some hard, I had a hard time falling asleep last night because I was constantly thinking about work.

[Speaker:JESSICA HICKMAN] Yeah, I can completely relate to you with this. It's the high achiever within us. And I don't think that we speak enough in society about, you know, workaholics and workaholism. And working in the industry I was before, you know, the 60, 70-hour weeks where I was constantly retracing my steps, wanting to do better, wanting to achieve more. And being entrepreneurs and owning your own business, it's like that line that sometimes we need to shut off at night. And, you know, when you're not working the 9 to 5, or you're working in for a tech giant like you were, or in the tech industry where there's no separation, and it's easy to slip into that addictive behavior of checking the emails, constantly striving for more, more, more. And I do see a lot of myself in that, in you, where sometimes I struggle to switch off and I'm always wanting to achieve more, help more people, and do more. And that just burns you out. And in a previous podcast, episode number 5, I do speak about burnout. And is that something you feel that you need to manage now even though you're saying that you're coming clean from workaholism, it's something within you that you still need to be a high achiever. How do you manage that?

Mm-hmm. In my community of sober recovery, we say that we have a daily reprieve from our workaholism addiction, whatever it is, contingent upon the maintenance of our spiritual condition. So spiritual condition can be You know, how sane you feel in a day, how connected you are to your intuition, how connected you are to a power that's greater than yourself, how loving you feel. It can be— it can run the gamut from whatever— however you want to define spiritual condition. But it is a daily program for me.

Yeah.

So I, as a solopreneur, I always feel like I could be doing more, and I could always be doing more. But even if I only work, you know, say 7 hours a day, the next 7 hours are still consistent I would still be spent obsessing about the next day and work and how I could be doing more and am I doing enough. So the way that I kind of take my brain offline is by very much through practical things like calendaring. So I will just look at my next day, my next week, and say, okay, can I— for example, something I'm obsessing over— can I do something about it now? If I can, I'll do it, but if not, I'm gonna calendar it for the next day.

Yeah.

So don't agonize, organize. And that really helps me to kind of keep myself honest. Speaking with people like you who are also solopreneurs and just outing myself, outing my ego, outing my addiction always helps. Um, so those are just a few tips.

Yeah, definitely. And you know, back to the alcoholism as well, um, it is how you always feel after that event as well. Like workaholism, feeling exhausted after when your mind is just taking over. And a couple of weeks ago I had that where I was just spiraling every night, just going, I should be doing more, should be doing more. And then afterwards, um, having a couple of glasses of wine and like that feeling after it, like, I need to give up alcohol, I need to drink less. And now I'm in a space where I don't drink much alcohol— birthdays, friends' occasions— and I've gone from having that couple of casual drinks throughout the week where I'm feeling like I don't need to. But when I was in the height of my bullying, I would suppress my emotions with alcohol. And I share on a couple of other podcasts about how I would always numb the pain on a Saturday night, and that Sunday morning was so much worse because not only was I coming down heavily off the alcohol, and then the anxiety would kick in, and then it was the dread for the following week of returning to that workplace. And it's just really a vicious cycle, and it's pretty similar to any kind of addiction where if you're not taking part in that activity, you're obsessing about how to stop that activity, and it causes so much stress and disillusion, I guess.

Yeah, it really does. And I'm not anti-alcohol by any means, but I am very pro-education. So educating oneself on the impact that alcohol has on your mental state and educating oneself on even just the facts that You know, for example, big alcohol companies have turned a lot of their marketing dollars towards women, and women— the rate of female deaths relating to alcohol has risen dramatically over the last even just 10 years. So there is even a whole line around the fact that addiction is a women's health issue. And as women go more into the corporate space too, workaholism becomes more of a women's health issue. In fact, burnout disproportionately impacts women more so than men, according to a Montreal University study.

Wow. And in the industries now, corporates, um, Friday drinks, the more you can drink the better, you know. And they've been in that environment as well in corporates, and you hear about where people have affairs and do things that disrupt their work life because of the alcohol that's brought in. And sometimes we can feel pressured. A lot of people I speak to now, um, feel pressured in the work environment to drink because it's the social thing to do. And sometimes people don't want to do that. Um, so it's kind of a— it's a tough topic, I guess, alcoholism. And my father was an alcoholic, um, he's passed away now, but I never really understand— understood the behaviors, I guess. It was something as a young child I never really understood. Now I'm an adult, I'm more conscious to maybe it was an underlying trauma or circumstances that led that way, that addictive behavior. And people always say, why can't you give up? And I know when I was very much like a very party girl, and my mom, my mom always used to get concerned if I was drinking too much. And I always think, you know, is that addictive behavior hereditary? Is it within me? Um, I'm very lucky that, you know, I can draw the line between alcohol and take it or leave it, but very much so that when I go on nights out, there's a time where I can think I can overdrink and then have that instant regret.

And I know, um, you know, the, the topic of alcohol in the workplace, a lot of people have very different opinions on it, and I'm very much pro, like, pro-choice in, in that regard. Yeah, um, you should— and again, pro-education. Know yourself, know your limits. And, um, I think it's a company by— it should be a company-by-company policy.

Yeah, definitely. And let's touch a little bit about, um, the addiction to tech, coming from one of the tech giants and being around tech consistently. Polar opposite to me, I'm not very techie. Um, but how do you think that there's, um How can we really educate people now on the addiction to tech? Because kids younger and younger are picking up the phone and social media. Do you have any advice of how to disconnect from that tech? And for parents listening, how we can kind of identify if we are ourselves addicted to technology and social media and how we can stop our kids from falling into that loop where they're reliant on that?

Yeah, going back to that kind of three-pronged, um, uh, the three pillars of addiction: mental obsession, physical manifestation and spiritual malady. I would say that if you find yourself in a place where you— there's a compulsion to check your phone.

Yeah.

Um, I— it happens to me a lot. Then that's kind of— that's the mental obsession, right? Um, the physical manifestation— how do you feel after you use technology for a period of time? I know that if I'm in a, like, what I call like a dirty scroll, like I'm just scrolling and kind of scrolling and trolling or like looking at people and when I put my phone down I just, I feel disconnected from myself. That, that's not, that doesn't work for me. That's a sure tell sign that I'm kind of out of my alignment. And then am I using it in a compare and despair kind of way? Am I looking at it as a way to kind of measure myself? Again, as a solopreneur, I, at the tip of my fingertips, I can look at 20 other women who are in my field who are doing more, better than me. At least that's what it seems like. And I can, you know, if I'm not careful, I can slip into that compare and despair. So my tips would be, first, awareness. How does that impact you from a mental health? Is there a compulsion? Are you comparing and despairing? And if so, a couple tips would be delete the apps. Yeah, that's a big one for me. Um, the second is, um, when we— within the first 8 minutes that we wake up in the morning, our brains are still in a theta state. So it's like kind of a light hypnotic state where the information that we put in front of our brains actually gets soaked into our subconscious in a deeper way. So what you consume and what you do within those first 8 minutes that you wake up is really indicative of what kind of day you're gonna have. So for me in Australia, a lot of my friends and a lot of my clients are actually in North America, such that when I open my phone, it's been 12 hours of them on before I even wake up. So it's really easy for me to just kind of turn to my phone. So what I do instead is airplane mode. I bought an alarm clock, so I'm now waking up to an alarm clock. I just bought it like today. Um, and I do my morning routine in the morning instead. So meditation, um, reading something that's life-giving, affirmation, intention journal, anything like that. And that really sets sets me up. And, you know, any sort of high performer that you know of, any sort of millionaire that you know of, they all do one thing, and that's meditation. And that's a solid, solid morning routine. So, you know, I, I want to perform my best. I'm still— I wouldn't say an overachiever, but I want that peak performance in a sustainable way. And so I can't have that kind of addiction to tech in my life.

Yeah, and look, an evening routine is super important for me. My phone locks at 8 PM so I can spend, you know, an hour or two before bed to really connect, set my intentions for the next day. I have a peaceful sleep. I do my meditation before bed and that really sets me up. And yeah, the morning retreat routine is super important, um, for me personally as well. I need to do gym in the morning. That kind of stimulates my body and mind, move my physiology. Really determines my day, so it's super important. So how was your transition out of a massive corporate, um, into your own business and moving on the other side of the world? What brought you to Australia of all places?

Yeah, great question. I, um, can we pause for a second? I didn't actually address like kind of the, the turning point or like the, yeah, the, um like how I reported it and like kind of the redemption story.

Yeah.

Should we go there first?

Yeah. Okay, let's pause.

So maybe we could ask like, um, like how did you, uh, kind of work your way out of— or like what—

how did you wake away out of corporate?

Or it's like, what was— I know you mentioned like—

so we both have very similar stories about leaving a corporate or a job. Um, So at what point did you report what was happening with the harassment, and how did you end up leaving corporate and going into your own business?

Yeah, so through the process of both getting sober and kind of looking at my, um, looking at my past and looking at a lot of my behaviors, I started really developing my voice again. I refound my self-esteem, I refound my confidence, and I also kind of came of age, meaning I had a lot of maturity happen over the subsequent 4 years. The #MeToo movement was a big consciousness-raiser, meaning I didn't know a lot about balance of power dynamics in the workplace. I didn't know a lot about the role of people in authority and what was appropriate and what wasn't, despite having gone through harassment training. It was still kind of in one ear and out the other, which I think is a really big area for improvement across many companies. I know that my previous company has done a really good job in terms of augmenting their harassment training, but it was kind of the culmination of both finding my voice, getting information, a lot, a lot more information thanks to the #MeToo movement around what was appropriate and what wasn't, and also having my manager at the time be a very strong supporter for my reporting it. So I told her what happened, and, and she really insisted that I report it. And so having an advocate in that way was extremely helpful for me because I had felt like I had somebody who I trusted, who knew the process with the HR, and who could kind of hold my hand through that.

That is really important that having managers that are emotionally intelligent and understand the system of how to deal with these kind of reports and also the, the effects if they're left unseen too. How did your company respond? Were they very supportive?

Extremely. It was a very good process. At first I was very scared. I thought it was going to be like a trial similar to the Blasey Ford trials or the Anita Hill trials. That's just what I had in my head when I thought of women whistleblowers or women coming, coming forward. So it wasn't like that at all. In fact, when I reported it, I was called brave by the HR manager. I was told that— I was told, "Thank you for coming forward." I was told that this was not my fault, and I was again thanked for coming forward. So I feel like I had a best-case scenario. I'm very lucky. And it again was a very esteem-building process because I was able to tell my story not from the point of view of wanting a specific outcome, but very much from the point of view of wanting to make my community better and wanting to be the solution. And I really truly believe that if we're going to talk about workplace harassment and we're going to be comfortable talking even about sexual harassment as women and MeToo and all of that, then we also really need to start normalizing and talking about reporting it because that is such a black box. And it's something that women, um, especially also men, aren't familiar with, and there aren't enough examples of people reporting it. So that's a big motivator for my talking about this even today, and it's a big motivator as to why I reported it in the first place.

Yeah. And I find absolute comfort to know that you once— thank you so much for sharing your story today. I know it's the first time you've actually physically spoke about this, but it's really, really comfort to know that one of the big tech giants— we're not mentioning their name, but they're one of the biggest— listened to you, acknowledged the situation, thanked you, and proactively managed that situation. I think it gives confidence to people listening that if they do need to report something, to do it, and My story is very much from the space of my company did nothing, and I don't come from a place, and I know we both don't come from a place of revenge and outing and naming and shaming. Our message is very much about education and empowerment, and the people, we hope that they, you know, we offer forgiveness to them, and we hope that they get the support they need to manage their own behaviors. And the fact that us speaking our truth will hopefully mitigate the risk from it happening to anyone else.

That's exactly right.

Um, so thank you so much for sharing your story with us. You're doing some amazing work. Um, you have now left corporate and you're running your own business. Can you just give us a little bit of information about your mission there and where people can find you?

So my mission is to help activate young women, emerging female leaders, entrepreneurs to align their ambition with a power that's greater than their ego. So service, um, values, core desired feelings, impact, all of that. Based on my story of manic misaligned ambition, trying to climb the ladder, I saw the impact firsthand of what that had on me, as I mentioned above. And so I'm trying to harness the power of this very strong female ambition and channel it towards solving the world's greatest problems because I believe it's one of the biggest untapped and unaligned resources that we have out there. So I do that through coaching, I do it through workshops and consulting for female entrepreneurs, and it's probably the happiest I've ever been. It was something that I was working towards for about 2 and a half years before having left the company, and Australia was a kind of a vision, uh, yeah, like a vision of mine for 5 years. And when I met my current partner, we both shared that we wanted to move here at some point. So, um, I had this idea of running this company and, um, being of service to women from a beautiful place as Australia, working from the beach. And yeah, I'm really grateful that that's my reality today.

Yeah, and it's great that we both connected. We come from other side of the world and we're both in our late 20s, and we've had life experiences that have allowed allowed us to, I believe, mature and tap into this bigger source and power where we want to help empower people. So for all the women and men listening where you think, you know, your age or your experiences, or you need to do something more, learn something more before you really tap into your, your gift to the world, just share your message with people and you never know who's going to be listening that can really resonate with your story and You can inspire everyone you meet. So where can we find you? What is your website, your social media channels? I know I'll share it in the show notes.

Yeah, you can find me on Instagram @brookvtaylor, and my website is brooktaylorcoaching.com.

Thank you so much for sharing your story.

Thank you.

Thank you.