In this interview, host Speaker A discusses the critical role of workplace culture and the newly passed Respect at Work laws, then speaks with Jessica Hickman, a former oil‑and‑gas professional who endured 3.5 years of severe bullying in a male‑dominated Australian construction environment. Hickman's collapse from burnout in 2017 prompted her to found Bullyology and author The Upstander Leader, aiming to reduce bullying across workplaces, schools, online spaces, and sport. She cites SafeWork research indicating that nearly half of Australian workers experience bullying, framing it as a global issue with entrenched “old‑school” behaviours. Hickman explains the bystander effect, argues for cultivating “upstander leaders” who intervene, and links respectful culture to employee retention, generational expectations, and bottom‑line performance. She offers concrete actions: use Bullyology’s resources, free helplines, and education programmes; leaders should conduct regular pulse checks to listen to staff and actively monitor the environment. The conversation underscores that cultural change is both a moral imperative and a business advantage.
Chapters
Workplace culture has been a real buzz phrase in recent times. We've seen organizations shift dramatically in the right direction as a result and benefit significantly from it. And we've seen some companies completely crippled because of a lack of it. And look, let's face it, in some instances the narrative has been detrimental to the very issues it's meant to purport to fix. In other ways, though, the focus has helped spark some real, much-needed change. The Respect at Work laws were passed just a couple of weeks ago. Businesses now have 12 months to get their houses in order. So how, without wasting your time and money on things like morning teas and posters or token gestures, can companies affect real change, especially in a climate where they need to go to great lengths to retain staff? And as we all know, happier staff and a better culture will also help improve the bottom line. Jessica Hickman experienced the worst of workplace bullying and has decided to dedicate her life to lessening the likelihood that it happens to others. Her book, The Upstander Leader, and her website, Bullyology, are out and online now. And she joins me now. Jessica, thank you so much for coming in. What happened to you that changed the course of your life so dramatically?
Yeah, so thanks for having this conversation. It was 2013, and I arrived in Australia, and it was my first employment working in a male-dominated construction industry, which was oil and gas. And unfortunately, I suffered extensive workplace bullying, which actually lasted 3.5 years. And ultimately, the more successful I became as a female in that role leading change, the more my direct manager, my boss, bullied and harassed me, which over time escalated, impacting my physical, emotional, and psychological health. And in 2017, I collapsed at work. From sustained burnout where my, you know, physical body had had enough. And that really led me on my mission. It was that moment of laying in a hospital bed on the other side of the world from friends and family that I realised how systemic bullying is in Australian workplaces and really went on a mission by founding my business, Bullyology, to do research and education, but also build programs that could lead sustainable change, not just in the workplace, schools, online, and even sporting communities, where bullying just perpetrates every aspect of our daily lives.
Do you think it's more common in Australia, or it's a global issue?
Look, bullying is a global issue, but when we look at stats from SafeWork, it says they found through research that almost half of Australians will suffer bullying at least once in their working career. And that's just not good enough. So it is really prominent across Australia, and there's a lot of old-school behaviours that really need to change, along with our political leaders that really set the tone for how we behave. And recent reports in Parliament in New South Wales and Canberra, and even, you know, Queensland Police, have found systemic bullying in our authorities. So where does that leave us in modern workplaces?
One of the things, and I've heard you speak about this and you speak so passionately about it, is the upstander leader, the person who stands up and who intervenes and, you know, the whole standard that, you know, that you watch and allow to exist is the standard that you accept. Why is it important for people to stand up and speak out if they witness this kind of behaviour?
Well, ultimately, that's why I wrote my book, The Upstander Leader, because I realised that unfortunately we are going to have perpetrators of injustice people that bully and harass others and targets. But in my own experience, I reported the bullying 32 times to corporate office, and 32 times I was told, "Toughen up, princess. It's the industry," or, "You look confident and strong. You're smiling." And ultimately, time and time again, nothing ever got done. And I scanned the room. How could good people allow this to happen so openly? And I realized there was a thing called the bystander effect present. Where good people become passive bystanders and those behaviours become the cultural norm, especially when, over time, you report them time and time again. And I just couldn't accept that as the status quo. So, throughout my work, I realised, "What happens if we focus on the upstander effect, building upstander leaders, people who could be cultural changemakers?" And I realised people fall into the bystander category—
And it's easy to do, and you're right.
It is.
Good people can do it, and there's no malice in that.
Absolutely. And look, I realise that people fall into the bystander category, not because they're bad people, but because they haven't got the skills, the tools, the education or capability to know how to be upstanders. And that's really what I focus on in my work, working with proactive organisations that want to build upstanders and changemakers, that want to look and lift that rug and look at how is the cultural undertone, and proactive leaders that want to be changemakers, that value their reputation and the humans within their business, not just productivity and top line, but really care and nurture for the people that ultimately create the business success.
But that then leads to that, doesn't it? You better the workplace culture, your bottom line then should improve as a result of that.
Absolutely. And look, we're seeing lots of generational shifts, which is a whole nother conversation.
Yeah.
But people coming into the workplace now not only value the paycheck, but they value the culture, being respected, and ultimately they want to work for a company that values them as individuals, where they can be their authentic self, their leaders are empathetic, and ultimately they want to be changemakers in the workplace. They want to be upstanders.
Before I let you go, and I hate not having enough time— I could spend an hour with all of my guests— but tell me practically, what can people do now if they're in a position that you were in, if they feel like they're in a workplace where they are being bullied?
Yeah, ultimately I built my website Bullyology and I've written 2 books now where ultimately people feel isolated and alone and I encourage them to go to the Bullyology resource, not only look at the programmes and education, but ultimately use the free helplines and the resources that have been created to create change. And ultimately leaders need to do a pulse check in the workplace and actively observe the environment and consciously listen to their people. And really, I think 2023 is the time where people can actually value workplace culture and get the help and support they need.
And get you into their organisation to help them do it.
Absolutely.
Jessica Hickman, thank you so much for your time and congratulations on what you're doing.
