A Conversation with Byron Casper

We are gone.

Hello and welcome to the latest episode of Inside Out.

You know who I am.

I'm Ian, and I'm with Jim Bennett as always. Hello, Jim.

Hello, Ian. How are you, sir?

I'm doing mighty fine. I hope you are excited about this conversation that we're having.

Oh, this is gonna be really, really fun. I think this is gonna be probably one of our most one of our most fun guests we've had.

I think so too. And so we are excited, very excited, because the guest that we have on our podcast today is somebody that you and I have known for a very long time, someone that we served with in Scotland as missionaries, and somebody we have enormous love and respect for, and somebody who is the proud son of a legendary golfer Billy Casper. So we welcome, special welcome to Byron Casper. Welcome, Byron.

Thank you, guys. It's a real pleasure to be here. And gosh, I value the friendship I have with both of you. So thanks. Thanks for allowing me to be on your, your show.

Byron, the feeling is mutual. We're really looking forward to this. So we're going to get into this pretty quickly and get a bit of backstory on you. So and we've agreed beforehand we're going to speak frankly and openly, and I think this is going to be amazing. So, Byron, give us a little bit of background in regards to growing up in the church, a bit of the family dynamics. You come from a very unique and very distinct family of professional golfers, especially your dad, who's Billy Casper, the absolute legend of a golfer. Tells me about you growing up, what that experience was like growing up with a world-famous legend golfer, the experience of the church, youth, YSA, and take us up to the point when you, just before you served a mission.

Sure, absolutely. I'm going to interject real quick though and ask you, Jim, to at a later date ask Ian about his first real experience with golf. In the bathroom of the Old Course Hotel in St. Andrews, Scotland. And you can leave that for another date, as you can see Ian cringing over in his office. But yeah, don't forget because you're going to want to hear that story, Jim, I promise you, and probably your listeners too.

This is what we're doing in a bathroom with a, with a, with a, The golfer was— what's his name? The big golfer.

It was, it was Mr. Nicklaus. Yeah. Jack Nicklaus.

Yeah. So I had an experience with Jack Nicklaus in the bathroom in St. Andrews. We'll get, we'll get to that at some point.

Go ahead. Absolutely. Absolutely. So yeah, my, I was born into a famous sports family. By the time I was born, my dad had already won 2 of his 3 US Opens. And, uh, and he won his, his Masters the, um, a year after I was born. And I suppose, uh, his Ryder Cup captaincy was when I was, uh, about 10 years old, 11 years old. And so I didn't really know any other way. I literally was born into, um, the professional golf world and the PGA Tour. And fortunately for me, um, I really truly had the greatest parents a kid could have. When a lot of other famous fathers and mothers were traveling and doing media games, et cetera, my dad was coming home and taking us to Yellowstone in a motorhome.

Yeah.

It was always family. And so, growing up feeling that and knowing that from my parents that, you know, family was more important than even the PGA Tour. It really kind of, I suppose, put my head on in the right place when I was younger. As I went into my teenage years, I got a little wild, a little crazy, rebelled a little bit, primarily just because I don't know if anybody realizes this, but during the early years of the Senior PGA, my dad spent roughly 40 to 45 weeks out of the year on the road. And a lot of times that was with my mom. Now, if there's only 52 weeks in the year, so you can imagine how little I saw my parents growing up. And so I think that that leads to a little bit of rebellion in a few different ways. Um, but everything came back full circle. Um, in high school, uh, when I got into a little bit more trouble, my dad being an old school dad, he really cared about me and my future. And I didn't realize it at the time, but as I look back now, they were amazing because my dad pulled me out of school. My mom put me in one of the first, it wasn't even online. It was a BYU independent study program to finish high school and get college, some college credits. And I went to work on the PGA Tour at the ripe old age of 15 and a half and traveled for the next 3 years caddying for my dad and meeting a lot of interesting people and having an extremely unique late teenage upbringing, so to speak. And I had never really gone to seminary or anything like that, although my sisters did and little brother did. I think I probably went to about a month of seminary. And so I didn't really have any of that background that I would come to realize that kind of left me lacking when I went on a mission. And I ended up getting a girl pregnant and she had the baby who was adopted. And I was really at a transition point in my life and I really didn't know what I was going to do, didn't know what I wanted to do. Had just graduated high school, wasn't sure about college. And my mom and dad asked me to go and speak with a gentleman that I used to call Uncle Marv when I was growing up, but you guys will know him better as Elder Ashton. And so I flew to Salt Lake City. And sat across from Elder Ashton, and he gave me a challenge. And the challenge was really simply, try to go on a mission. And I'm like, I'm not going to last 2 years. And he said, just try it. Give it 3 months. Give it 4 months. And after a lot of kind of humming and hawing, we finally agreed that I would go on a mission. With the condition that if I wanted to bail after 3 months, I was out of there. I was gone. And, um, that's how I ended up going to Scotland. Uh, there is an interesting story about Scotland that I have to, to say, um, bringing in my older brother. And that is when my mission papers came, I wasn't in the state at the time. And my brother Bobby said to me when I got back to Utah, he said, I had a dream last night. I know where you're going on your mission. And I said, really? Like where? And he said, I dreamed I was playing in the Open Championship in Scotland and there were rolling hills and sheep everywhere. He goes, so that's where you're going. So went back to his house, opened up my mission letter, and sure enough, I was going to the SEM, the Scottish Edinburgh Mission. And in retrospect, I doubt there was another missionary on the planet that was as little prepared for what I was about to go through. You have to remember, I'd been traveling on the PGA Tour with my famous dad and padding. Though I'd been hanging out primarily with caddies for 3 and a half years. I'd gotten a girl pregnant and had a child that was adopted. And I was really only giving my mission a token 3-month test, so to speak. Well, don't have to tell you guys that test turned into me staying the entire time because I think I realized fairly early on that it was a pivotal life-changing moment and that this was one of many big things that I think I needed to experience in order to help me in my future.

Right, right.

You arrived in the Scotland Ever Mission in September 1987. —this certain podcast that you arrived in the mission at the same time, Jim Bennett.

Yeah. You were not in our MTC group though, which was weird because we had a bunch of people and then you and Elder Daines were in some other MTC district. Yeah.

I never could quite figure that out because there was, um, I didn't really, we didn't really spend much time together in the MTC. You know, the whole, the whole Scottish group.

So, and, and then you, you arrived, but you were on the plane that I was on, and, uh, we, we went and got our mission trainers, and we walked into a room and there was Ian Wilkes sitting there. And, uh, you went off with Ian Wilkes, and he was the first companion you had, correct?

He was, and he was a brash, loud Englishman who made it clear from the very beginning that his opinion of Americans was not all that great. And he was taking me to literally the most extreme place I had ever been in my 19 years on this planet, almost 20 years, I guess, on this planet. And, and that was the beautiful granite city of Aberdeen, also known as the coldest city on earth, quite frankly, cuz it sits on the North Sea. The entire city is made of granite and everything is kind of dark all the time. Remember that, Ian?

I do remember. It's quite a depressing city. It's got a fairly high suicide rate, unfortunately. So it's a very, It's hard to tell the difference between the city and the sky when it's all gray. So, it's a pretty, pretty bland city.

Yeah, for sure. And, it's wet. You're wet all the time. You're constantly wet. I ended up living in Scotland as you guys know years later and working in St. Andrews. But, at the time as a 19-year-old, I literally thought that God hated me, my parents hated me, and why on earth was anybody remotely living in a place like this when they had choices to live other places. It was that, that extreme for me.

Yeah. That, I mean, our listeners will know now that I trained you.

And well, kind of, kind of trained me. Kind of trained, kind of trained.

And I want to just kind of provide very quickly some context. You and I were completely from completely different backgrounds, different cultures, different countries, different accents, thought differently, felt differently. I was a Brit, you were American, and our personalities were different. You had gone through that extraordinary experience, you know, with Elder Ashton, President Ashton coming out on a mission, you know, being interviewed by an apostle. You we're on a, um, I, I think it, the, some of the first conversations I had with you, I remember, and again, just check my memory here. You, I think you said or indicated that if you weren't happy with this experience, you were gonna go home. And this is like a trial thing for you, right? Again, yeah. Check my memory. So we were, uh, thrown together, I guess, uh, or put together, um, Someone prayed about us being together, so it must have been right in President Banks's mind. Uh, at the, you know, shortly afterwards, which we'll get into a little bit, we, we probably realized that it was probably one of the, uh, you know, maybe at the time, uh, we probably felt that it was one of the biggest mistakes President Banks ever, ever made. And we can get into some of that, but, you know, we, Jim, you were in the room there. We, we got our trainers. Jim, you were trained by Elder Hanson, I think. Um, Byron, you know Elder Hansen. I served with him. We all have.

Yeah, he's, yeah, he ended up being my companion for 6 months. So, you know, I loved Elder Hansen. Good guy.

Yeah, I served with him. He was amazing. I looked up to him. I served with him. Jim Bennett, he trained you. Byron, you served with him. So there we are. I mean, you two guys coming into the mission, um, you know, this whole thing is unfolding before your eyes. You have no idea what's ahead of you. Uh, Byron, you've gone through this entire experience. Jim, you've gone through your experience to get to where you are. You and I then head to Aberdeen and it was a difficult, a very challenging companionship, I think, right from the start because of our very different perspectives where you were, what you'd gone through. Without throwing me under the bus too much, tell us a bit about what your training experience was like, so-called training there. You can, this is like a 37-year performance. Evaluation of Ian Wilkes's, uh, very limited, somewhat, uh, immature training capabilities.

So it's interesting, I, you know, I've been thinking a little bit about, um, some of the memories, you know, back then. Um, little things like I can remember seeing Jim, you know, on the airplane, you know. Um, I, I'll never forget the SEM headquarters, you know, um, that beautiful mansion That was just, just, it's what a staggering place to—

we're getting rid of it—

to come to. I know, I, I've heard that, and then I heard that they kept it, and I'll have to tell you guys, I was back in Scotland last year again, and it was pretty, pretty interesting to go back and realize that nothing, like nothing, had changed. It doesn't matter whether it's a decade or 5 decades, it's, it is literally the exact Same place. Maybe hotels are a little bit nicer. You know, that's about it. But you know, my memories of being trained in, I can remember some very specific things. For instance, I remember our first fight, like our first big blowout fight was about cars. And Ian was completely confident. That a 1.6 turbo British engine could destroy a 3.5-liter American engine. And quite frankly, when he said that, I wanted to bite his head off. And he couldn't believe that I was arguing with him because he was the expert on everything at that point in his life. And so, That was our very first fight, was about American cars as opposed to British cars. And it was funny because in my later years, I ended up driving a Peugeot 105 as one of my work cars. And every time I drove that Peugeot 105 GT, I thought of Ian. Every single dang time.

The hot hatches back in the '80s, because when I came back off the mission, I got a hot hatch. A friend of mine had a Peugeot GTI. They were quick. I had an Astra.

Oh, it was, it shouldn't have been that fast. I mean, that, that light of a vehicle should never have been as fast as it was, but it was fun.

It, they, these are the hot hatches of the '80s and that was a fast one. But yeah, so I, your memory is amazing. So, uh, yeah, keep, keep going. You just destroyed it.

So, uh, yeah, so, so I remember that. Um, and then. I also remember about 2 weeks into, maybe not even 2 weeks, maybe a week. And this memory just came to me a couple of days ago. And I was really, I'm really excited to share with you. Um, I had, I'd only been, I think, on my mission for, like I said, maybe a week or 10 days. And we were in that terrible apartment in Aberdeen. You know, with the, with the, with the, uh, the, uh, ice on the inside of the glass panes, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And he was, and, uh, I mean, it was, it was nuts. And our mission, our apartment phone rings like 9 o'clock at night, like right as we're getting ready to go to bed. And Ian being the senior and the head head guy trainer grabs the phone and I hear him talking for a second. He goes, Elder Casper, it's for you. I'm, I'm totally surprised. I don't know who's calling. And it turned out that my ex-girlfriend had tracked me down with her brother, lied to the mission home to get our, said it was a family emergency to get ahold of me in the Aberdeen apartment. And were trying to talk me into going and meeting them in Ireland to go to a U2 concert. And I think that that opens up really exactly where my friends and where I was at when I went on my mission, that I had literally had friends calling me, trying to talk me into bailing on my mission and going to a U2 concert. So I don't know if you remember that, Ian, or not, but, um, So that was another extreme experience. And then the last one that I'll share is—

Well, before you share that, Brian, I want to jump in and say that your exploits became the stuff of legend. And I heard missionaries tell the story of a friend of yours. I mean, this is what you just told is what I think is the genesis for the story that I heard, is that friends of yours chartered a jet and flew to Scotland and took you to New York. To what? U2 concert. And, and I don't know who told this to me, but they told it to me with absolute authority. This absolutely happened. And I thought, I can't believe that would've happened, but I don't, Yeah, yeah. Almost possibility either. Byron could do these sorts of things. But Bobby, you know, snowball.

That's it. That's so funny because yeah, there's a lot, you know, it's kind of one of those things. I suppose there's a little bit of truth to almost anything really if you look deep enough. But yeah, that it was a really kind of interesting, um, interesting dynamic. Um, I never went to the concert. It was, it was in Ireland, not New York. And they very well possibly could have chartered a jet. These were my crazy gentrified kids from South Florida where I was living when I left to go on my mission. And you know, it was such a surprise to everybody in my circle of friends back then. I think when I told them that that's what I was doing, I think just nobody believed me. And I think that's probably something that has happened a lot in my life. And that is people don't always believe me when I say something or say I'm going to do something, even if it's extreme. But as you just pointed out, Jim Bennett, if there's something extreme to be done, odds are I'll probably do it or find it.

But I interrupted you. You were getting off that after that happened. You haven't— Yes.

After that happened was the last time that when Ian and I had that big fight and that was, I mean, we were pushing and shoving each other and I wanted to just wipe the smile off his face and he wanted to literally toss me out of the 4-story window so much so that they ended up coming up and I have this weird vision of both of us standing on our beds in opposite ends of the apartment, trying to decide if we were going to just continue this or if we weren't. And then the next day we were separated and Ian went, I don't know where you went, Ian, actually, but Elder Holland, who was the assistant to the president, stepped down as assistant for his last month and trained me. Matt Holland. Yeah. He became a president of, of the university, UVU. So he's a general authority now.

Oh yeah, that's right.

Yes, that is right. I remember hearing that. I, you know, I send him messages every now and then, but I don't really hear back, back, back too often, but I was sad to hear of his father passing recently. Yeah. Yeah.

He, he was the, he was a great missionary. Uh, he's a wonderful guy. He specifically stepped down, I think, to be your second companion. I just wanna say this, Byron. Um, you know, you and I had a rocky, um, experience together for sure. As I look back and reflect on how I was, and, and you and I have had many conversations over this over years and back in the day. I regret being too intense, being too hard, um, not relaxed enough, not really fully understanding your background or your situation. You know, I was a, I was a 20-year-old kid at the time, 21-year-old, I think, when I came out. And, you know, I just wanted to do the work and get out. And I had, I didn't really appreciate or respect the experience that he'd gone through. I didn't understand it. And so, well, and vice versa. Yeah. And so I've apologized, Jim, to Byron profusely and hugged him and pleaded for his forgiveness for me being so difficult, challenging, obstinate at times, bullheaded over the years. I think one of the lowest points, and I think it's important to capture this, And I, I look back and I didn't, at the time I didn't appreciate what was happening. And I look back and it's a, a regret I have because it was a, a, probably the lowest point of a very difficult, challenging, uh, companionship that just wasn't working, uh, for lots of reasons. I think it was, there were times it did work, but there were many times where it didn't. I remember you and I were tracting in a small, uh, suburb of Aberdeen called Dyce. I, you remember, you remember this, we attended the Bridge of Doon branch. It, it was the Aberdeen Stake Bridge of Doon, um, ward rather. Um, and we were tractoring in this small village called Dice and I took Byron to have lunch, I think it was on this small mound overlooking Dice Airport. I think he'd been out a week or two weeks and that proved too much, I think, for Byron. Keeping him out. He was struggling to stay out. He understandably wanted to play golf. He, he was in a, his comments about Aberdeen and how depressed it was, was, uh, albeit at the time I saw it as negative, was actually true, Jim Bennett. I mean, Aberdeen was just brutally depressing. You know, you're on a mission, no one's interested, it's freezing, the granite is sweating on the inside and then freezing. Right. Uh, it's just, it's just a very difficult experience. Byron's come from Southern California to San Diego, Chula Vista area, right to Aberdeen with a guy that is completely different and has come that, you know, it just, just not getting along. And I remember a pretty big fallout, uh, a reaction from you, Byron, when I took you there and you reacted pretty strongly emotionally about this. You know, going to, um, sit on this mound overlooking Daisieba because it, it made you so homesick and you were so pissed off. And we had a, we had an argument and I, I look back and I feel so bad about that and I'm so sorry.

Uh, oh, you don't, yeah, you don't need to be. It's okay. You know, but I have to say this though, as an American, and I don't know if you felt this way, Jim, um, but when I first went to Scotland, it took me really quite a while to understand one, the sense of humor, which, you know, you have as well, Ian, but also the fact that there's some big differences between our cultures when it comes to getting to know people. And it, I just felt like everybody hated Americans everywhere we went, cracking knocking on doors. Even, hey, Ian, remember even that, what was it, the Dawsons? Wasn't it the Dawsons or something like that? These people were LDS. And we go to dinner at their house and Ian's telling me how lovely these people are. And we sit down and first of all, I've never had any type of food since, like I had there. I don't even know what it was. But, um, it was something. No, I know. I love, I love mince and toddies and my ex-wife used to make that in Scotland all the time. This was like some sort of weird crab cakes or something. And this guy starts railing on Southern California water treatments and I am literally livid. And Ian is sitting across from me and he knows I'm going to explode. And I'm already, you know, I mean, I am like pulled so thin. Right now at this point. And I still feel bad. I ended up apologizing to this guy like a decade later, but I stood up, slapped my hands on the— remember, I'm on a mission. So, stood up, slammed my hands on the table, and I said, "You can F right the F off. None of that's true, and you've got the most blankety blank blank country on the planet. And I just walked out and I don't think I've ever seen anybody turn white like the shade of the wall that you're sitting in front of, Jim, as Ian did. And for the first time, I think in Ian's life, he was speechless. And you know Ian, he's never speechless. And I think that Ian was absolutely gobsmacked, speechless by my reaction to this, um, these, uh, these, this family that was just ripping on America. So do you remember that, Ian?

I do, and I'm glad you talked about that because I'm hoping that you'd bring that up. That was some dinner appointment. Uh, the whole room was silent. You walked out, I mean, you were just, you'd exploded. You just told him exactly what you thought. And we just kind of looked at each other after you'd gone, and we kind of said, I said, you know, I said, look, I think I should go. And was he not the bishop or the branch president? Or was he the ward mission leader? I think he, yeah, I think he was the ward mission leader.

Yeah, he was the ward mission leader.

And so, you know, Byron, just, you know, a young kid, didn't give a crap. He didn't care who he was talking to, and if he didn't agree, he would just tell you what he thought and tear a strip off you. And I, I admired and respected that in many ways, but it was also difficult. Before we get into the Holland bit, I mean, we were just young kids, Byron, right?

Of course, we were teenagers, you know.

You'd go through all this experience and you were trying to find yourself, you know, different background. I come from, you know, and that's the same story for every missionary. Before we get into the Matt Holland experience there that I think, uh, did a much better job than I did, frankly, on the training. I think he was probably the real trainer here. And I was kind of a, I'm not sure how I would describe me, but I, you were, you were so over the edge.

Well, you're both, you, you both are intense. You both absolutely are intense individuals when it comes to, at that point in your lives, when it, when it came to religion, I think Ian, you, because you're a convert, and had to work so hard to get into the church and stay in the church. And I think Matt, because, um, his dad was president of BYU and had been made a general authority. And, and so you guys were both intense, but there was one difference between you. I could tell you guys right now what it was. And that was Matt made things fun. He made the tracting. He made the singing. I, to this day, I still sing High on a Mountaintop in the same sort of weird '80s version that Matt and I used to sing walking around Bridgidon, Aberdeen. And Matt was the first person that I'd ever met that absolutely was hardcore LDS, but he was willing to make certain, I suppose, make things a little bit more fun than a lot of rigid people would. And he had such a quirky, nerdy sense of humor. Um, he just was unique and he was the first person that kind of taught me that life shouldn't be serious all the time, not even on a mission.

Yeah, I, I, I agree with that. I, I think, you know, look, looking back, I was too rigid. For sure. Can I jump? No, sorry, no, very good.

The Matt Holland story. So, uh, uh, at Elder Maddox's funeral, Matt Holland sought me out and talked to me, and, uh, one of the things he did was thank me for, um, defending Aaron Sherinian, but that's a whole other story. Uh, but I said to him on that occasion, you had a huge impact on my mission in a way that I don't think you will anticipate, like how you had that impact, you're probably wrong. Uh, when I got certified, do you remember being certified? You had to memorize discussions and scriptures and you got, I had to get up at 5:30 every morning until I was certified. And I hated that so much that I, Matt Holland told me I set a record. For the fastest certification in mission in his time in the mission. I certified within like 6 days.

You did. I remember that now.

Uh, anyway, so he comes in, he comes up to Livingston and he's certifying me and he starts telling me this story. And it's, the story was all about a guy named George Moffat, Elder George Moffat. Uh, is this starting to ring some bells? So Elder George Moffat got a chain letter, and it was a chain letter back in the day, pre-internet. You would get these chain letters and they would have these sort of warnings in them that if you don't send them out, terrible things will happen to you. And Elder Moffat's letter said, if you don't send this to 20 different people, you will, uh, be eaten by pirates and alligators. And so he was so terrified that he went, oh, he had to send it to 7 people. That's important. 7. You, you, Byron, you know where this is going. Ian, have you heard this? I do. I do. You have heard this. Well, anyway, yeah. So he sends his 7th letter. He goes to the mailbox and when he comes back, and then Elder Holland said, yeah, and he came back and we all started singing, hail to George Moffat, ascended to 7. Baiters and pirates now fight him in vain. And I went, that is the corniest, goofiest joke I've ever heard in my life. And so from that point on, I started making up stupid hymn parodies like that and telling them. I did a lot of that in Dundee with Elder Blazard, uh, Elder Keith Blazard, not it. Yeah. But, uh, you know, several companions, the companions that enjoyed that. I made up a whole bunch. There was one about some guy that, uh, she spanked me and told me to get off it and shot me powder eggs. I don't remember what that even means. But I have these snippets of it and I just said, you, you kind of sent me a lifeline on my mission, Elder Holland, because Uh, that was a great way to just have fun and relax and do something silly. So anyway, I just wanted to tell that story.

Well, you know what? I could, I can bring that kind of full circle too, because I remember that you were the number one in the mission for doing that, because at the same time that you were number one, I had no intention whatsoever of memorizing anything. And I had said that to Ian. And I had said the same thing to Matt. I'm like, look, man, I'm not going to be here long enough to memorize this shit. So I don't really need to know it. And so, you know, Jim Bennett was breaking records, getting it done, and I was just killing time. And it was a really interesting dynamic to starting that, I suppose, starting that journey into adulthood because really that's what all of us kind of we're doing in a certain respect on our missions.

Yeah. I'm so grateful that you had Matt Holland as your companion. He was a seasoned missionary at that time, much more fun. I was too intense, took it too seriously. And as I went into the mission a bit further, I kind of mellowed, but I was serious missionary. You know, when you get— I'm not making excuses here, but you get drilled into it, you know, by President Dunn, who you didn't both didn't know, but, you know, live with exactness, get out on time, get out there. At the same time, you've got to, you've got to make it fun because it's so challenging and often so depressing. You need to have relief from it and having fun, and otherwise it can just completely engulf you. So I'm just glad that Matt was with you and was that fun side. You needed that. He was the right person for it at the right time. And I'm just so grateful that you got him because he's such a great guy. Before we get into a bit more of, of, you know, your, your life story, uh, can you remember a couple of times when you and I were together? We did have lots of, uh, there were lots of good times. I don't want people to think every day was absolute, um, brutal. We had some fun times and some, some good times. Do you remember meeting that lady who was a witch?

I do. And, uh, and I remember, uh, yeah, I remember that really well. I do remember that, um, we had to, uh, if I remember correctly, was it you or was it, uh, Matt Holland that we had to do the exorcism and cast out the, the, uh, spirits, um, in, in our apartment? I think that was you, wasn't it, Ian?

That was me. Uh, Elder Smith, he's passed away. He was the AP. Elder Widmeyer was the, sorry, zone leader. Ellie Widmeyer was our leader. Yeah, we had an evil spirit, Jim, in the apartment. Byron and I also were teaching a witch, it turned out. We learned that a few discourses into it. And do you remember coming down from Old Ness one late night?

I do, because if you remember the sequence of events, it was quite interesting. The lady that we were teaching lived in Bridge of Daw and she lived at the very top of this apartment. Complex. And we had found out just fairly recently that she'd done a header out the window, but was still alive. But we went over to the site, there were still the chalk marks, you know, like it was like crazy. I mean, it was pretty nuts. And then when we got home, they were doing some sort of I don't know, witchy stuff in the apartment below us. And the only reason we knew about that was that we saw this big giant pentagram and candles. And I think one of the girls had asked us to come in, you know, how girls are teasing missionaries, et cetera, you know. And it was pretty gnarly, you know. I'd never done anything like that in my life, but it, uh, it was my first foray into things that I had no idea, uh, were going on behind the scenes when it came to the spiritual realm, you know.

Jim, I think of the month you and I were together for one month, uh, Byron, um, it must have felt like a year to you. I'm sorry about that. But, uh, I think we had more than our fair share of encounters with evil spirits and witches. And I remember coming over the bridge from Alness and we could see in the distance there was something happening in a field, people walking around doing some kind of ritual in a field. There's actually quite a bit of that, believe it or not, in Scotland. And I think I had more of those experiences with you in that month than I did probably perhaps, you know, other times of my mission.

So, well, fast, fast, just a real quick interjection. If you fast forward to let's see, '89. So you fast forward a decade. Um, I was living in Scotland again, married to a Scottish girl, children were born in Scotland, and I came to know firsthand, um, because of my own family over there, um, and friends. Um, Scotland is a very interesting place, but don't underestimate how close the spirit world, for lack of a better phrase, exists in places that have that level of old history and almost literally constant civilization for thousands of years. And that is really, really interesting. I concur.

And we had a snapshot into that over that 2-year period on emissions. Um, going forward after you've, you've, you've managed to, um, survive my, uh, brutal training experience, um, and I'm so grateful for your patience on that. You then served with Matt Holland. What was the rest of your mission like? How did that pan out for you?

You know, it was up and down. Um, I, I had great companions. Um, and I slowly worked my way up in the hierarchy. Ended up being a district leader and was asked to be a zone leader and ended up basically getting in trouble, which kind of was kind of a, some, I suppose there's a reason for that in the long run, but I had been a district leader in the Dundee district and I was living in Lady Bank at the close to the end of my mission, and I met a 17-year-old nursing student, tracting one day. And, um, I just, gosh, you know, it's hard to say love at first sight, but man alive, I just fell in love. And it was weird because I'd been on my mission at that point for 21 months. So you'd think I would've been immune to things like that, right? And ended up staying too long at her house and kissed her. And then me being honest, as Ian has said, brutally honest at times, the next day I'm like, you know what, I'm just going to call President Banks and tell him. And so I called President Banks and said, hey, I kissed this girl. And he's like, oh gosh, okay, you got to come down to Edinburgh. So I went down to Edinburgh and I told him, I said, I love her. I'm going to marry her. And he goes, well, that's fine, but you're on a mission. You shouldn't be thinking about that stuff right now. And so long story short, the very last month of my mission, President Banks looked right at me and he goes, your father's coming over to play in the Open Championship and they're going to be picking you up in August. Because of what you've done, I could send you home, but I'm not going to send you home, but I'm going to give you either the best or the worst month of your mission, last month, last month of your mission. And I was very much the sort of kid. Where you make your bed, you lie in it. That's how I was raised. And so, um, I absolutely realized that if I had gotten in trouble, I had to pay the piper, you know? And so I wasn't shy about that. Well, President Banks put me with an elder that had been out for 3 months and he put me in an area. I'm sure you both are going to smile when I say this. He put me in Easter House.

Easter House. They didn't even have missionaries in Easter House. I thought we opened it up. Oh my gosh. That's, that's where Sheena Easton came from, by the way. Yeah.

And, you know, interesting, interesting. And I look back now, I didn't realize it at the time, but I don't think it was an accident that President Banks put me with a Marine who literally took time out of the Marines to come on a mission and had only been out 2 months. This guy had me running at 6:00 AM. Okay. That's how broke this Ruckman dude was. Running at 6:00 AM. Like he was crazy. But here's the interesting thing. I had never experienced that level of poverty in my life. I had never seen kids running around in tattered dresses, 5 and 6 years old, you know, running around in tattered dresses in the snow. Apartment buildings where a third of the apartments were boarded up with cardboard and literal trash cans filled with trash that were on fire. With people standing around them. I had no experience whatsoever with anything like that.

And a lot— I served in Drum Chapel. Close. Which is close. And we were scared of Easter House. Uh, yep. It was in Drum Chapel where I saw a car in the middle of the street that was on fire. Yeah. Everybody was just kind of like, uh, yeah, well, what are you gonna do? I saw there's like, there's a fricking car on fire right in front of us and nobody seems to care. Nobody does anything.

I mean, it's, it, that's the thing is the police and the fire trucks, um, they don't even go into those, those bad areas of town because, um, you know, they just think it, it's too dangerous. But, you know, it was one of the things where I say this to this day, um, honestly, Jim and Ian, I met the most lovely people. Um, I met people that changed my life in Easter House. I went through my first emotional heartache in Easter House where I saw this little 5-year-old girl playing with her brother and they, neither one had shoes on and it was snowing. And me and my companion were heading back to our flat. And I just stood there and watched, and it was seared into my brain that I could never forget how a big portion of this world lives. And it was a really good lesson for me amongst many of realizing that life isn't always just what you see and what you experience. You have to understand that there's a lot of other people, um, and if you want to truly understand this world and this life, then you should try to understand all of them. Yeah. Yeah.

And that was, uh, those experiences, Byron, were the last month of your mission then?

Yeah, I went from literally being in Easterhouse, talk about extremes. So I went from being in Easterhouse, went back to the mission home, as you know, when you go, when you are finishing your mission. And the next morning, President Banks called me in to the front room and said, I'm not telling the rest of the missionaries, but there's a surprise for you. And he opened up the door and there was a limo out front of the mission home. And then he took me into the front living room and, um, sorry, with my mom, uh, fading, it's, uh, I was, I actually didn't think I'd get a little bit emotional. Um, I just, I love that woman so much. But my mom and my little sisters were sitting in the living room. And, you know, after 2 years of not seeing them, it was filled with a lot of fun and emotion. And then immediately the following day, my mom said, let's go shopping. And I put my mission life behind me and, gosh, she went out and spent way too much money on clothes at the local mall. And before I knew it, I was staying at the Turnberry Hotel and was thrust literally right back into the professional golf world in the same country where I had just served 2 years of the hardest time of my life. And it was a very interesting dynamic, but it was, gosh, the amount of growth that I personally went through during that period of time in my life was the best thing that could have ever happened to me.

Just on that. And I think it's a, highlight in this conversation. You, when you came into the mission with all the history and background that you had and the, uh, the challenges that you had to experience, and you arrived in the mission, difficult first companionship, uh, difficult place, you know, Aberdeen, in, uh, coming into the winter there, et cetera. Didn't want to be there. It was on trial, you know, the, the mission was on, on, I think you put the mission on trial and you were prepared to leave. It wasn't gonna work out for you. Fast forward through that whole experience of your mission, which then becomes a very personal, spiritual, and emotional part of who you are now, no doubt.

It did, but you have to realize as well that I was honest. I was honest with every companion. You were. And I was honest with President Banks the same way as I was honest with you, Ian. And that is that I never ever saw myself in the church. Right. And I even said that to my friends on my mission and to President Banks. I said, you guys have to know that, you know, the reason I'm sad about leaving my mission is because this is the only time in my life that I will ever be in this situation. And I just, I knew that I wasn't going to sustain that for the long run. And so to me, it became even more valuable as something that I needed to experience. Experience to grow. Right, right.

No, I don't know if that makes any sense or not, but yeah, it does make sense. I think for a lot of missionaries, or some missionaries, you know, it's difficult. You go through the emotions, right? You're there, it's hard, it's hell, especially in Scotland, can be tough. And you go through this experience. For you, you were, you were yourself, you were true to yourself, you were very honest, very authentic, and that was something I had enormous respect for. Going forward, you know, when you going to the, from the point of where you didn't want to be there, you know, often through the entire experience where Easterhouse and just for our listeners, Easterhouse and Drumchapel, a very tough working-class suburbs of Glasgow. It's, these are, these are tough areas with a lot of social problems for sure. How was the, notwithstanding all that, how was the transition then going back into city life, going back into normal life, having not wanted to be there at the beginning, gone through the entire emotional experience of a mission, and it changed your life. It transformed your life, right? Even now you think about it like we do. It's such a part of who we are. And then you came back and there you are in Turberry Hotel. Your dad's doing extremely well in the PGA, golfing legend. You're now back in all of the, you know, the whole life experience of what you left before. What was that transition like? Was it easy? Was it difficult?

Did you miss the mission? You know what? I did. I missed the mission a lot. I didn't miss the structure, but I did miss the structure because it's something that I realized later on in my life and something that I practice to this day for certain things, especially my businesses. I look at structure as not something that's, I don't know if for me personally, if there's anything more important than structure. Let me put it that way. Even though it's not something that comes easy for me and I have to try really hard to keep things structured and appointments, et cetera. To me, I find a little bit of solace in that, I suppose the same way that somebody in the military would find comfort in being in the military for 20 years and not know what to do when they come out. And so, I really missed that aspect of the mission. I wasn't ready to be an adult. I don't mean mature-wise. I mean, I wasn't ready to be an adult because I didn't know what I wanted to do. Everybody wanted me to be the next Billy Casper. So there's a lot of media and news articles and interviews and things like that that I did, including on The Mission, Ian, with you, you know? But then I ended up playing volleyball in college, not even golf, and tried to run away from it and got a different degree in travel and tourism before I went back to golf. And so there was a lot of kind of looking back to my mission experience as the true beginning of a foundation for me, both spiritually, but also guiding me on the path as to who I was and also who I really wanted to become. And I knew that that wasn't going to be easy, that that was something that I was going to have to, um, be proactive about, that I couldn't just sit there and accept. Because the dynamic of my mom and dad is that my mom accepts. She's the most faithful woman I've ever known. Um, and my dad, would accept from anything that my mom said pretty much, but he also was a little bit kind of more mental when it came to thinking things through and wanted to make sense of things. And so, you know, I saw both sides and knew that I was going to have to spend some time learning to really find out what I actually believed. And so for me, the mission was that first platform for me to build, build on top of. Right, right, right.

Tell us a bit about the, so you came back, you went to college. Yeah. You're back into your old life, which is, you know, fantastic in many, many ways. Your dad is this incredible golfing legend. You accompany him on, on, you know, different events. You graduate in travel and tourism. What happened then in terms of, you know, did you, you got married, you settled down, you met this girl from Scotland?

No, it was the, it was the girl from my mission. So, yeah, I suppose I should circle back and make it sound like I, and give the ending to that story. So the nursing, the 17-year-old nursing student, from, uh, that was living in Ladybank, Scotland, um, became my wife. Um, and, uh, we started dating, uh, 6 and a half, 7 years after our mission, my mission. And, uh, I went back to Scotland and we dated and then she came to America and we got married in, um, really cool place. At that point, I was very unreligious. And I had told my parents that my mom, that she could plan my wedding, but that I didn't want to be married in a church. And my mom was mortified because she wanted me married in a church. And so we compromised. And so Jill, my Scottish wife, and I, we were married in a place called the Chapel of the Roses. Which is a beautiful little quaint church that sits on a hill in Bonita, California, and it's right smack dab in the middle of a cemetery.

Wow.

And so that's where we got married. And it was kind of cool because it was very charming, similar to how the Church of Scotland's are so grand and gorgeous in Scotland, and they all have cemeteries surrounding You know? And so it was really nice. And it was also the fact that I still loved Jill. It wasn't just that I had met her and that's when I say love at first sight's a real thing. And so we got married in 1996 and I adopted her son who was 6, 4 or 5, maybe 5 at the time. And And then 2 years later, we welcomed our second child, our daughter Colby. And at that point, we had moved back to Scotland because, you know, you can take a girl from Ayrshire to America, but I wouldn't suggest taking her to California. It was far too busy for a Scottish girl at that point. And I was playing professional golf. And so I decided, why not? Let's go give Scotland a try. And so we moved her back home and my next 10 years or 11 years journey of living in Scotland, working in Scotland was, you know, began. And it was amazing. It was weird to be in Scotland after a mission because of how rigid everything is. And then all of a sudden I had freedom. I could watch TV. I could, hey, you know, I could do all of anything I wanted. And, um, and so it, it did take a little bit of getting used to, but, um, my time in Scotland has never been regretted. It is literally, I consider Scotland my second home. And if you combine my mission, my marriage, and all the time that I've worked over there, believe it or not, I've lived in Scotland for 16 years of my life.

Is it this point in the conversation that you want to share our shared experience with Jack Nicklaus?

I think, you know, I think I need to share it because because I think, Ian, you will try to make it seem a little bit nicer than the experience necessarily was. And if you remind me, I will tell you the fast-forward version of that story when I ran into Jack Nicklaus at Thanksgiving Point at the Champions Challenge that my dad was playing in. And Jack was playing in with his son, but we had gone out to St. Andrews and we were, you know, I had never experienced St. Andrews as anything close to an adult at that point. I remembered it as a kid barely. And we circle in, we drive into St. Andrews and the road circles in from Cooper. And Ian's like, there's, there it is. And I look over and all I see is a bunch of sheep. You see a wooden fence and a bunch of sheep. And I'm like, where's what? He's like, that's the old course. And I'm like looking and sure enough, it was the old course with a bunch of sheep out grazing on some of the land. And so we drove around St. Andrews and saw different things. Then we stopped in at the Old Course Hotel and at the time I knew the general manager of the Old Course Hotel and I wanted to get a message to him. And I'm sitting in the lobby and Ian says, okay, where's the bathrooms? No, no, sorry. Let me get the vernacular proper. Where's the toilet? Remember, that's something they say in Scotland, the toilet, not the bathroom. And so Ian goes into the, uh, the, the, uh, old course, uh, bathrooms and he's in there for ages. And then he comes walking out and he's shaking his head. And Ian, I would like you to finish what happened in the bathroom. With Jack Nicklaus. And I will, I will, I will start it off by saying this. It happened while they were both standing next to each other at the urinal.

Why did we not share the story and let people imagine what happened in there? So, so, I mean, this is like the Mecca of golf, right? I think This was a bit of more context, wasn't this Jack Nicklaus's retirement event?

I don't believe it was the— it may have been one of his last, but I want to say it was 1990 was his last. So I'll have to do some research and find that out. But it certainly was on the back end of his career when it came to playing in any British Open tournaments. 100%. I thought he was there again.

I might have got this wrong, but planning his retirement, you know, as you know, I think he retired on the Old Course. I think the Bank of Scotland even printed his face on the £5 note. Remember that, right?

So that is correct.

Jack Nicklaus was there, you know, at this time, uh, you know, when Byron and I are in the same building. I think Sean Connery was in the building as well at the time. I think he was a, a member of the Old Course. And, um, a few of the famous people. And so I'm somebody that has no knowledge of golf. I don't know golfers. I don't know, you know, Sean Connery's, you know, more famous, but I don't know, apart from Billy Casper, I knew about, there are other golfing professionals that I'm not really familiar with. So I went to the bathroom and I'm there in the bathroom and there's an old guy stood next to me. And, uh, and I said, uh, I said, hi. He said, you're here for the golf? I went, nah, not really. Just a bunch of old guys just knocking a ball into a hole. I said, the whole thing's a bit stupid to me. He said, okay. And so, you know, we went to, you know, we was washing our hands together and I said, what are you? Are you a golfer? He went, yeah, kind of, yeah. I play a little bit of golf. Oh, I said, yeah, he said, uh, yeah. I said, well, I said, uh, are you any good? And he went, yeah, not bad. I said, well, you know, I said, I think of better things to do than to waste your time on the, uh, on the golf course. I said, I'm just here just kind of with a friend, but, uh, I said, well, you know, uh, you know, enjoy the rest of your day. And he said, yep. Um, nice meeting you. Real nice chap. And so I had no idea this was Jack Nicklaus. Um, of course, being very ignorant and, and, and didn't know much about golf. And then I think, Bayer, and again, check me on my memory here, 'cause we're going back quite a bit. Um, we then went into, there's like a, a, a pub restaurant in the building. Mm-hmm. In the Old Course. And I, and didn't you and I were at the bar there just, you know, chatting with people. I think I came in, you were doing your networking. I think I'd. I brought my bike, I think, as well, just because I was going to go do some cycling or walking or something like that. Um, and didn't— what was the story with Jack Nicklaus coming up to talk to us then? It was— what happened there? Can you remember what happened? Because he was— I think you talked to him, you spoke to him.

He knew you really well. Yeah, I think— but was that Jack Nicklaus? I thought that was Johnny Miller. And he— because he came up— because he came up and, um, and he couldn't believe that, that we were over there. And then from, from there, it was another professional golfer from Australia who has the record, I think, for the most Open Championship wins, a really lovely gentleman by the name of Peter Thompson. And so in my memory, I can see Johnny coming up and talking to us and being really surprised, um, that he didn't know that I lived in, in Scotland, right?

This was, Jim, this was, uh, you know, this was some kind of event going on here. I think this was planning in with the Jack Nicklaus retirement, uh, it was, it was the Dunhill, it was the Dunhill Links Championship. That's what, that's what it was, that's right. Byron was heavily involved. I think he even did some some media wasn't there.

Yeah, yeah, I was, I was commentating that tournament.

He was commentating. I think Sky Sports was involved with Byron as well. This is a big event. We're surrounded by golf royalty. Byron, you know, they know Byron, Byron knows them. And I think Jack Nicklaus came up and, and then, um, I said to Byron, I think it was, you know, that, that I just spoke to him in the, in the, in the bathroom there, and I, I think I might have offended him. And I think then, uh, we had a conversation, I think, with Jack, didn't we? And we kind of laughed and I apologized. And, um, so I, again, I'm trying to remember all the details there, but it was Jack Nicklaus was very gracious. You know, here's me with, with no knowledge or experience, quite ignorant. Um, but the whole, it was funny. It was, it was kind of embarrassing at the same time, but it was quite funny, but it was, you know, it was, it was embarrassing.

And I think that I mean, you know, God bless you, and you didn't know anything about golf whatsoever, you know, at that point in your life. And so you didn't—

you wouldn't have known it from Adam, you know. No, I mean, I wasn't malicious. I was kind of having a bit of fun. You know, golfing is not my thing. I can't play the thing for toffee. Even Byron said I'm beyond anybody being a professional training me. I'm just awful at golf. But what was interesting, Jim, was the— to see Byron's life through the lens of these incredibly famous people, legend of golfers, and just being in that natural environment for Byron. It was like, it was his, it was his gig. It was his natural. He was very much involved in the Sky News thing. He was just, it was his tribe, right? And so seeing that, you know, me being from where I'm from, you know, this working class kids. And then seeing Byron associate and mix naturally, and very, very eloquently, may I add, and just talk about a sport that Byron knows intimately, of course. And just seeing the passion was just, was extraordinary. So I know we've got another probably 5 minutes before we close, but I will give Byron some more time and you some more time as well, Jim Bennett. But I was always grateful, Byron, to, um, have met you, to spend time with you. You've been incredibly forgiving and gracious with how I was as a missionary, being too serious at the time. I'm so glad you got Martin Holland. Um, your life has been quite extraordinary. I mean, you can't fit all this into one hour. I mean, your life is just, we could talk one hour just on one, you know, probably one week or a month in your life for sure. But you've had such a profound impact on my life. I love you so much. I'm so grateful for your patience with me and your long-suffering and your kindness and forgiveness. And then to see that, um, you know, go back into your life and go through all what you have done and be part of a wonderful family. I've met your parents, the wonderful parents. Um, and so going forward, what was, I mean, we probably need to have you back on because there's so much we haven't you know, covered here. But, you know, when— what was— what's been the last, uh, 20, 30 years or so? What's that been like for you then? Has that been a good experience with golf and, and family and life? Has it gone well for you? Yeah, yeah.

In fact, I, um, I, I'm a big believer in commitment, um, but also being, you know, when you commit to something, you really truly commit to it. And so I, when I committed to being a professional golfer in 1999, it was what I had had my second edu— my second education in, but I, I'd always kind of steered away from that. But when I committed to being the best professional golfer I could, that commitment to myself really was again, another big stepping stone in my life. That's when I found out that I loved teaching people and that I was good at it. That's when I found out that I was a pretty decent writer and had my first two books published. I'm a big believer, even more so nowadays, that something beautiful happens when you truly commit to yourself. I think the universe literally will go out of its way to make things personal and beautiful for you if you allow it. And so the last 30 years of my life have been married as a professional golfer, as a golf professional, teaching professional, a writer, then as a single parent of two beautiful children. And then circling back to trying to expand the business and the legacy that my dad started and that I'm going to, you know, am continuing carrying on, which is why I have the Billy Casper School of Golf. I'll always keep that. But I also have been able to do things like go into the environment and I own an environmental company that is sustainable and saves water in lots of different scenarios. And you know, so as you grow and as you get a little older, you, I think you realize that you can still have your career, you can still love what you do, but you can also look for ways to maybe help your industry and help your family. And that's really where I'm at right now in my life. It's really all about keeping the legacy going, continuing to grow and to learn about myself and my place in this universe that I believe my Father in Heaven created and enjoying as much of life as I can. And so I've got that mixture of being the big kid who fractured his shin 6 months ago teaching the 7-year-old how to ride an electric scooter. You know, I've got probably 5 e-bikes sitting behind me. I don't know if you can see them. But I'm stupid when it comes to having fun, but I'm also serious when it comes to growth, personal growth, and serious when it comes to my personal growth as well as my career growth with my businesses. Right, right. Um, just one last question.

I wanna give some time to Jim Bennett. So, so is it right to say that you are, you're not active in the church, you, you left the church, uh, it wasn't for you. However, you've, you have a relationship with God and Christ, and perhaps you are even more spiritual than you ever have been in your life.

Is that a fair assessment? 100%. Uh, 150%. In fact, I would say In fact, I would say wholeheartedly that there's some very important facts about what you just said. First is that I don't believe that I really ever was a Christian when I was younger because I never had a true understanding of Jesus, at least according to me. And for me, that's where it starts, really started. But one of the biggest gifts that I believe I've been given by my Father in Heaven is the ability to combine my belief systems that might otherwise steer people away from Christian beliefs or a belief in a higher power or supreme being. But for me, I've been able to amalgamate them together. So I'm really grateful that I believe in my Father in Heaven, who I also believe is the source of everything in the universe. And I also believe in my Savior who died for my sins. I don't pretend to know how it all works, but I don't believe in the rigid structure of any religion, Mormons included. I don't believe in the lack of freedom. And I believe that if the plan of salvation really truly is the plan of salvation and that our freedom to come to this earth was so hard fought, then why on earth should we come to this earth and immediately be told what to do? To me, that's never sounded like freedom. And that's kind of been where I have come from when it comes to my own personal journey. I'm also a very respectful person who has a real deep love of my Savior and my Father in Heaven. So a lot of this is in communication and prayer and meditation, where I take one of the things we learned on our mission, guys, and that is, if it feels right and it feels good, then it's from God. If it doesn't, it's not. And you could change the word God out for positive and negative. You could change it for a lot of different things. But this is just what I personally feel. And delete.

Jim Bennett, any final thoughts or comments from your end?

Well, I, I, this could go on for another 2, 3 hours and, and not even scratch the surface of how interested I am in all. I'm admiring, you're just such a charismatic, um, talented, warm, intelligent, wonderful. I mean, it's just so much fun to listen to you. I can, I can understand why you discovered maybe later in your life that you're such a good teacher because you really do have that ability to sort of create a connection very quickly and your authenticity shines through in every sort of exchange that you have. And so I just really enjoyed this. I also, I would love to have you back. There are several other stories that I have heard about you and from you that, uh, I think would, uh, the people would enjoy hearing. I, I, I, the one that comes to mind involves, uh, you looking for sales opportunities in the MTC. Does that ring any bells for you? Oh yeah, gosh, yeah.

I, um, yeah, I mean, I think I was the only missionary that ended up taking a an attaché case full of drugs into the MCC, just in case there was any other missionaries that wanted to buy drugs in there.

Hey, you remember here, I remember you, you telling me that and I just was flat. You used to play a game. You used to say, hey, let's play past sins and transgressions.

Yeah, that's, that's where I, that's where I showed you guys in the apart, in the, in the flat. We were on a zone conference. Jim Bennett, you'll remember this. Ian wasn't there, but, but you were, I believe we were all, I think there must've been 15 of us in this teeny little apartment.

Was Ian's apartment? Was this only his apartment? Oh yeah. Yeah.

Sleeping on the floors and all over the place. And somebody came up with the bright idea of, hey, firing Elder Casper can blow smoke rings. And everybody was like, Really? Why? How does he know how to do that? Well, because he used to smoke. And I don't know who it was, but somebody rolled up an envelope and lit it on fire, and I blew a perfect smoke ring right there in the apartment of Ian's apartment. And there's another story that we'll have to talk about at a later date. And I expect Ian to crack up right now, even with me mentioning it, Jim Bennett. But if you haven't heard this, you haven't— tell you when we get off. But that was the time that I was down in London and Ian Bennett was wildly successful in business and the bottling industry. And he just happened to be staying at the Dorchester and I was staying right right around the corner at the Marriott. And he says, hey, I've got an event tonight. Why don't you come to the event at the Dorchester with me? You have a suit, right? And I'm like, yeah. And he goes, come to the event and then we'll get a bite later. And so I'm like, sure. So I went to the event with Ian and we're going through the greeting line with all these dignitaries and I look as I'm standing in line and this was, I don't know, Ian, what, '92 maybe? No, not '92, '98, '99, 2000, something like that.

This was a big event with members of the royal family, the British government. I was, uh, we'd won an award. I could invite a friend. I thought about Byron. Brian came along and, uh, there was some very, very, uh, hugely international names there. And so Byron again is, in his, in his element.

So this is— yeah, the Dorchester, amazing hotel, by the way. 2002, 2002 was the—

go ahead.

Yeah. Yes. An amazing hotel. The Dorchester is one of my favorite places on earth. Um, and the piano bar especially, but, but, you know, so we're walking through the line and, um, we get to, uh, the King of Malaysia. And He goes, "Byron Casper, Billy Casper, your father." And I said, "Yes." And honestly, this guy, I mean, this king, he grabbed me, like grabbed me, you know, both hands and pulled me out of the line and takes me behind this curtain. And sits down with me and proceeds to tell me how my father built 2 golf courses in Malaysia and he loves my dad and just on and on and on. And then he tried to set me up with his married granddaughter. And it was, it was the most nuts thing ever. Well, then it gets even more extreme. So we go to the event, Ian gets his award, and then we go and I'm like, Ian, I got, we have to go to the, the piano bar. It's literally the location of some of my favorite books on the history of, I mean, I'm a big reader. And if you know anything about Jack Higgins and his Dylan series, you will know You'll know what I'm talking about, all about the piano bar. So Ian goes, okay, yeah, let's go to the piano bar. And Ian's not a drinker at this point, but you know, I certainly am. And nobody else in there except for one person sitting over in a little corner and like a corner booth. And it ended up being Liam Neeson. Liam Neeson. Ian was floored. And I don't care about famous people. I really don't. That's one of the, my superpowers is the last person that made me starstruck, you guys, was honestly was our president, President Bush Senior. He was the old last person that I became starstruck with when I met him in 2004. He got his autograph. But I don't really care about famous people, but gosh, I know factually how important Liam Neeson is to Ian. And, uh, and we got to meet him and Ian and I, Liam, I believe are probably friends to this day.

Yeah.

Liam, hang out together now, Ian.

We should get him on the podcast for sure. Yeah. He's a, he's a great guy. Great, great actor. So yeah, so, but Byron was just in his element with these people and, uh, they just gravitated towards him. And what an experience that night was with the, you know, the King of Malaysia. And I think Prince Charles was there and I think you spoke to him as well. And so, you know, Byron is, this kind of stuff, it's not my thing. It's, it's, I'm from a very different background, whereas Byron, it's his, this is his people, right? Just mixing with the, you know, the rich and famous and is so, so effective and, and actually very, very, uh, natural.

Um, we're gonna close, but not bad for a guy, not bad for a kid who comes from a, a bunch of oil workers. 'Cause that's really what my family is. You know, my dad and, and my dad's brothers and, and relatives, grandpa, great-grandpa, dad, all of them are roughnecks. So, um, so we understand both sides of life, I think, better than most.

So yeah, I think it's an important point, important to acknowledge that, you know, your family and us, we work hard. You know, we come from humble beginnings. We work hard to try to make a life and try to get somewhere in life. And we've, you know, we've both got those experiences on both sides. We're going to close here and Jim's right. I, I, I, it, there's so much we've not covered. It would be so wonderful to have you back. Jim, as I look at the gym, kind of share some of his thoughts there. I can't add to that because I agree with everything Jim said about you. The only thing I would add is that of all the missionaries and of many or even most of the people that has had impact on my life, not just on the mission, it's you, Byron. You have had me in the time that I've known you from that difficult early time that we had together through forging a lifelong brotherly relationship of love and kindness and forgiveness and patience and tolerance. You've had such a profound impact on my life in many ways. My friend, you've trained me. So, you know what, thank you.

You both are important to me too. And, and, and you, I hope you believe me when I say this, that there are qualities and things about both of you, you, Jim Bennett, and you, Ian Bennett, that I've always valued and looked up to.

And we, we, we are so grateful to hear that. Jim, any final comment, thought from you before we close?

Well, it's just very kind of you to say, Byron, and I very much appreciate you being here, and I hope you, hope we can have you back. Have we just lost him?

I think we lost Byron. He's coming back. I think maybe he's got a connection. There he is. He's away. There he is. Okay. We can edit that out. Uh, so Byron, as we close here, we want to, Jim Bennett and I want to express our love to you, our appreciation, our respect, our admiration for you. We're so honored and privileged that you've taken time out of your busy schedule to be with us and to share your experience. You're such a wonderful individual and we would be absolutely delighted and honored to have you back on. And there's so much that we haven't covered that we would love to, you know, have a conversation together with you. Any, as we close, Byron, you know, keeping in mind the many qualities that we've talked about with you and especially, I think, your authenticity, your, you know, Byron's when Byron speaks, he speaks his mind and he's honest, and that is a quality that not everyone has got. Do you have any parting words of wisdom for anyone about life and about being authentic and living life under your own— you know, it reminds me of that song, Jim Bennett, Frank Sinatra, I Did It My Way. When I think of that song, I think of Byron Bennett, who did life on his terms, beat to his drum. Did it his way. Do you have any parting advice to anyone listening in the church or out of the church in respect to being authentic and living a life of authenticity?

You know what? I know I do. I've got probably way far too much, but it's all things that I've had to learn myself. I think that's one of the reasons why I became a good teacher and, and I, I'm, I'm, as of last year, I still was in the top 25 teachers in America. I think the reason for that is because when I talk about things, a lot of times I've experienced them personally. And so because I've had injuries, for instance, that have taken me 3, 4 years to come back from, a fractured pelvis. Broken shoulder. I love working with injured students because I know that pain of overcoming that, I suppose. As far as advice goes, we've all heard it. We really have, but there really is no better value that you can do for yourself or the people around you than to be present. When you need to be present, whether that's putting your phone down or stopping a meeting early or blowing off something that's less important than a family thing. You know, too many times we get hurried in life. And because I have ADD, I have personally fought with my brain working far too fast for my body. And it's been something that I've had to learn how to control. But I'll share one story that I think is the best advice hands down that I ever heard from anybody. And the golfers in your show or listen to your show will really value this. When I was going through some difficult times, um, around 2010, 2011, including a divorce, I was also searching for answers, I suppose, and searching for what I believed in. And at that point I had learned to be present and I'd learned to value other people and love them to a certain extent. But I hadn't learned how to control myself. And it was very frustrating not being able to have complete control over my brain and and not spiraling off in different directions. And I was talking to my father and I, I asked him, Dad, when you're walking up the 18th fairway, knowing that if you make a putt, you're going to win the largest tournament in golf and literally against the most famous golfer. How do you control that? How do you deal with a high, massively high stress situation? You know, thousands of people watching. And he put his hand on my shoulder and he looked deep into my eyes and he said, son, I just walked a little slower. And what I took from that 12 years ago when we had this conversation, what I've taken from that throughout my own personal journey, I think if we all just sometimes in our lives walk just a little slower, we're not going to miss the important stuff, whether that's family, career opportunities, friends, whether that's understanding our own belief systems, um, understanding our place in the universe, whatever that is. I've never been able to fault that advice that my old man gave me to just walk a little slower. And I don't have to tell you from a physiological standpoint what that does to your breathing and the way your brain, um, functions. And so again, it, it's some of the best, if not the best advice I've ever gotten. In all walks of life, including studying religion, spirituality, what have you. And that is sometimes you just need to walk a little slower.

Jim, thank you for your always valuable contribution. And Byron, you've been absolutely wonderful.

Thank you. Oh, you guys are great. Thank you so much. I really value both of you and thank you for having me on.

And thank you to all of our listeners for being with us. Hope you enjoyed this, and we hope we can get Byron back to share more of his remarkable life experiences. Thank you to you both. Thank you. Thanks, guys.

End recording.