A Conversation with Jeddy Bennett

Hello and welcome to another episode of Inside Out. My name is Jim Bennett and I am here virtually with Ian Wilkes. Having been in person with Ian Wilkes for the last episode, we've gone back to being on different sides of the continent. I guess we're on the same side. Isn't a side like east-west?

I think we're in the same continent.

Are we?

Yeah, I think we're incontinent.

We're incontinent. So, uh, I, we just, uh, but, uh, yes, there are many meanings to that. We'll just let that go. I, I won't use that as the adjective to describe you, the incontinent Ian Mills.

Maybe when I'm older.

Maybe when you're older. We may get there. But last episode was really a lot of fun and I think was a really powerful episode. Ian was visiting with us, was actually down here for a missionary reunion, and we cornered my son Samuel to talk about his mission. And in the course of it, Samuel is an identical twin. And Ian got in a conversation with Samuel's identical twin, Jetty, and said, Jetty, would you like to be on the podcast? And Jetty graciously agreed. So these are, these are without a doubt my two favorite podcast guests we've ever had because I just love these guys more than anything in the world. And Jetty Bennett is joining us on our podcast. Jetty, welcome. How are you, sir?

I am great. I finished my first day of BYU today, first day of school. So for, I guess, first day of 16th grade. So really, yes, quite fun.

Yes. Your mother made you go and take pictures. Both you and Sam had pictures. You know, you've seen those pictures, Ian, on social media when somebody starts a new year of school, first day of 4th grade, first day of 10th grade.

Yeah.

Uh, both Sam and Jetty sent us the first day of 16th grade pictures. So that was, that was a lot of fun.

And a good first day for you, Jetty. Good, good experience on your first day.

Great experience. I had my computational cancer class, so we're going over how to use big data sets in order to analyze and make predictions, um, on cancer research. And then I have a math class that's the math of deep learning. So we're trying to understand the inference and how neural networks work on a mathematical theory side of things.

That sounds amazing.

I— so mathematics and cancer, how does it work?

So computational cancer, the idea is that you can take big data sets and we can apply different algorithms to them. So say if you understood what was inside of a cancer cell and the environment outside of a cancer cell, if you can reduce that to a pixelated image, you can then treat— pass that into a computer, or as social media likes to say, AI of some sort. And it would take all these pixelated images and it would say, determined by these pixels, can we predict what type of cancer it is? Or how the cancer environment will react to the environment surrounded in.

So, Ian, this kid is a genius, and I have no idea who his real father is. But I'm not—

he is, is very smart, and, uh, for sure. And, and, and just to, to add, to, uh, add to that, uh, we deal in our business, uh, Jerry, we deal— we, we, we have the same technology where we use AI and big data approach for incorporating or bringing in all the big datasets for environmental engineering. So we look at, for big complex projects, we bring in all the regulatory, all the multilayered information on the environmental vegetation, fish, wildlife, substrates, materials, soil mechanics, stuff like that. A lot of data, vast amounts of data, run through algorithms and it tells us, for example, on a pipeline, which is the most effective route selection for that particular pipeline, taking into account what multi-criteria is, the cheapest route, the safest route, bypassing communities. So this big data analysis, these big data sets, and using AI can, um, do these predictive models for all kinds of stuff. And it's, it's, if I'm not mistaken, it sounds like the same kind of thing.

So I was a theater major.

Sorry.

Klafs.

Nosaka.

I'm just asserting my ignorance, my deep and profound ignorance on the kinds of things you're discussing. So maybe we ought to shift to, to something a little less esoteric, but no less significant. Jetty, we want to talk to you about your mission experience. And I know your brother's mission experience. I mean, we lived through this with you. And it was a little— your brother's mission experience was traumatic in a number of different ways and triggered a number of different challenges with mental health. Your experience was not that. Would that be fair to say?

Yeah, I would say I had anxiety, but it wasn't to the extremes that Sam faced on his mission. I would say I'm one person to, once I grasp onto something, I kind of just push forward with it. And so once I kind of integrated myself into the mission environment, it felt natural and comfortable. And so it just felt like a thing I could do in a very repetitive manner for 2 years, of course, or COVID kind of threw a wrench into that, but I was able to grasp onto the day-to-day things easier. And I also didn't have the same traumatic experiences with maybe leadership or with companions as Sam did.

You and Sam were both called to different missions in Argentina. You were Buenos Aires South and Jetty was in Neuquén.

Flip that. Sam was Neuquén, I was Buenos Aires South.

Oh, that's what I meant. I'm just not very bright. I think we've established that here at the outset as you guys have discussed esoteric important mathematical concepts that make my eyeballs bleed. But so, so yeah, you were called to Buenos Aires South. Sam was called to Neuquén and you actually spent your time in the MTC in the same bungalow.

Yes.

And there was a, there was a big scandal in the bungalow. Missionaries were doing weird and scary things and taking pictures of themselves doing weird and scary things. And when you got out on your missions, your mission presidents reacted to that in very different ways because neither one of you— the only thing you were involved in was taking some silly pictures where you turned your suit coats inside out and other kinds of entirely wholesome yet silly things to do. And how did your mission president react to that?

Well, it was very interesting because the APs, or sisters to the president at the time, they first called me in and they were the first people I spoke to. And they said, that is not at all what a disciple of Christ would do. You are misrepresenting the church. That you are likely to go home. So that was very stressful.

Was that in the MTC or was that when you got to Argentina?

That was Argentina. That was after— that was, um, after one week in the field. Um, I got that call from the APs. I went and met with them, and then the week after that I got an email saying we— I need to go visit with the mission president he would like to speak with me and the other people from my group. So each of us had our own separate meeting. I think there were 5 or 6 of us that had to go meet with him. But we got set up. And I went to his office by myself. And at that point, I had no grasp on the language of Spanish. I think that also made it difficult for Sam because his mission president— the, the language barrier was a lot different than the one with mine because my mission president spoke fluent English. So when I went in, he went, we're not going to do any of this in Spanish. I want to be able to be as clear with you as possible, even though he was from Argentina. And there was a list of 13 things. And he said, we're gonna go through all these, and I'm going to ask you which ones you were involved in, which ones you know missionaries were involved in, that you associate with on a weekly basis. And we went through them. And I think it was maybe 2 of the 13, it was the pictures that, um, with inside-out suitcoats that they thought was childish for someone representing the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for 2 years. And so they felt that wasn't appropriate, um, to be out on the internet. But at that point, we had no control of that. But he told me there was nothing to worry about. So after that, after that whole interview, he went, you have done nothing wrong. You've made some mistakes, you've made some errors. But just like anyone else, you can repent of these things, you can change, and you can move forward with your mission. You're not going to be sent home. That was the first thing he told me, actually. I walked in, he goes, don't worry, Elder Bennett, you will not be sent home. And so that relieved a lot of the stress that I had and formed this strong connection with my mission president there, understanding that he was willing, he cared for me, and he wanted me to be there. And then he just talked me through how You need to understand the environment that you're in for 2 years. Even though you're 18 years old to 20 years old, or later, depending on when you leave, you're still representing a community. It's not just yourself anymore. You're not just a teenager in high school. And so that did help my perspective on it, but also helped me realize that someone— if I do make a mistake, it's not going to be the end of the world. I can move forward and have someone that trusts me to do the work of the Lord.

Well, so I remember back home, your mother and I were just ripping our hair out. And the first thing we heard was that Jetty is in danger of being sent home. And then all of a sudden it became Sam is in danger of being sent home and Jetty is no longer in danger of being sent home. And the process from our end was actually really frustrating because we weren't able to talk to the mission presidents. We weren't able to talk to the— they had gotten an area representative involved who actually had an office downtown in Salt Lake at the church office building. And, and at one point your mother said, go down and meet with this area authority who's dealing with all of this so we can know what's going on, because they weren't telling us what was going on. We didn't know what these 13 things were. I still don't know what the 13 things are. And our stake president, who, Ian, by the way, is the brother of one of the missionaries that we served with. But our stake president, he was being helpful, but he wasn't directly plugged in. He was getting secondhand information. So he was the only one we were allowed to talk to. And I went and I sat in the lobby of the church office building. To go talk to this guy. And I talked to the secretary. And while I was in the church office building, I got a phone call from our stake president who said, are you in the church office building lobby? And I said, yes. And he said, he doesn't want to meet with you. He says you need to talk through me. And I found that so deeply frustrating that we weren't able to sort of get to the bottom of this because It, I mean, I just thought, here are my sons and they're being thrown to the wolves and we're not being able to deal with them. And so how did you have that same level of frustration until you talked to your mission president? I mean, were you really worried that you were going to be sent home?

I was. Unaware of most of this. Because the mission president, I think, kept a lot of communication away from us because he didn't want to stress us out. The only time I felt scared or frustrated was the meeting with the assistant president the week beforehand, before I met with the mission president. But besides that, I received no communication about, you're gonna be sent home, here's all the things that are going on. It was purely just here's this one meeting, decisions are unmade, um, keep working day to day as if nothing had happened, and the mission president will meet with you. And we met with him, and I met with him, and after that the whole conflict was in the back of my mind.

It was done.

It was done.

Uh, so I just wish the same thing had happened in Sam's mission, but hindsight is 20/20. So you had this sort of hiccup there at the beginning. And, and what, what, what happened next? What was your mission like after that?

Well, my mission experience was different. I think what that first— what that did was provided me with a different perspective, is that everything in life is essentially a gift to you or provided to you So there's no reason to ever take something for granted. So you're going out for 2 years, you've chosen to go out for 2 years, and, or 18 months, or whatever the capacity you serve in. And you should make the most of that time, meaning what you have agreed to do, you should put in the most effort to. And so I decided to put all my effort into it. So the first 7 months of my mission were spent in Argentina, in Buenos Aires. Where it was similar to, I think, how you and Ian would have served a mission, um, back when you served, where it was essentially I was out door-to-door tracting all day long. I would wake up— my mission was a little different where in Argentina it was 7 AM to 11 PM rather than 6:30 to 10:30. So they moved the schedule just because the Argentinian schedule is different where they would wake up later and they would go to bed later, so it made more sense. So we got up at 7, we'd probably be out the door by 10, I think, after all our studies, 10, 10:30, depending on if you were training or not. And then I would track until 12:00 to 1:00, whenever lunch was, have an hour lunch, and then track until about 9:00, 9:30, sometimes 10:00 if it got too late, I'd come back to the apartment. And would do some sort of language study or read and then go to bed. So it was— I would have dinner as well because dinner was usually late in Argentina. So we would have an official dinner time. We would just wait till we go back to our apartment at 9 o'clock. And then after that, COVID hit in March of 2020 when it finally hit Argentina. Luckily, I was in the mission right next to the airport. And so that allowed us to get evacuated very quickly. There was a moment there that we thought we all might get arrested because there was such a large group of missionaries and group of people concentrated in one area at once to get us out of the country. But that was at that current moment illegal to group more than, I think, 2 or 3 people in a certain area. And because there were, I think, 50 or 60 citizens of the United States being sent back to the US that it caused a real issue. In the end, the police actually ended up escorting us to the airport and getting us out, which was really nice. So it made the drive quicker. So then we flew back, direct flight to Utah, kind of in limbo for 2 months. And then I went to Tampa, Florida, spent 8 months in Tampa, Florida, and my last 6 months in Buenos Aires, Argentina. So I was bouncing back and forth between missions, essentially.

Well, you came home for 2 months. Sam stayed home for 5 to deal with the mental health challenges. But you turned around, went right back to Tampa Bay. And I think one of the reasons your mission was so much more positive, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but you essentially got adopted in your first area. By your cousins or my cousins. I have a first cousin that lives in Tampa Bay and her husband is a former mission president and they were in your ward when you were in your first assignment. What was that like?

I love them. They were great. So that was one of the best things about that area is I went, I had a companion who was just about to finish his mission. And I'd experienced that before. And I was kind of worried because the one I previous been with had no desire to be there anymore. But he was great. And then the Patricks reached out to me. And they were like, oh, you are Jim Bennett's son. We're related to him. This is great. So they immediately, they set up multiple dinners with us. They wanted to meet us. They always helped out with missionary work. They were always involved all the time. And it made it very positive to know that if anything ever went wrong in the area, I could immediately have someone I could contact and be like, hey, this is happening. That never did happen, but it provided a sense of relief for me. And then the other thing that really helped in that area was we ended up getting a third companion because with COVID there were so many missionaries, an influx of missionaries to all these U.S. missions. So I think we went— we ended up, I think, 220 or 240 missionaries at one point, um, in the mission. So essentially everybody was in trios. And my third companion was actually from Sequim, Washington, right where Mom grew up, where our My mom grew up in Port Angeles, Washington, and so we became very good friends very quickly. And that also made that a very, very good experience for me.

I'm wearing my Swain's shirt, the Port Angeles, Washington General Store. So I think that's appropriate. I think that was meant to be. So, so you were— you're in Tampa Bay. Did you have more success in Argentina than you had in Tampa Bay, or was it kind of a wash?

Um, the first 7 months in Argentina were pretty similar to my 8 months in Tampa. The first 3 months in Tampa, I actually essentially spent cold calling, is what it felt like. I was essentially a salesman on the phone where we couldn't go into people's homes. We either had to be at our apartment or in the church. And so we would typically drive to the church. And we would go through our area book, like the electronic area book that we had now. And I would sit and call all the numbers that we had registered in there from previous missionaries that had been in the area. And I sit and call and be like, hey, do you remember us? And they did. I'd ask if they'd want to hear maybe a quick 2-3 minute message over the phone. If not, we can set up another time for something longer and chat and get to know them better, either over FaceTime, like Zoom, or over the phone. And that had some success. So we had lots of times, but I had— remember spending hours on the phone just sitting and calling and feeling very, very bored. Um, but that is what we did for the first 3 months, and after that we were allowed to go into homes on invitation only. Typically, we would teach in the backyards of people, or in— we were allowed to teach people within the church. So we were trying to get people to come to the church. But what I really enjoyed there is I developed really, really close relationships with the members of the Church of the Area. And that helped me further along in my mission, as that has not— that's not something I really did in my first 7 months, is tried to cultivate relationships with the ward members. And so for that 8 months, I spent a lot of time just building up wards and having lots of fun with the ward members, going to activities, getting to know them better, getting to know their friends better. And that led to success down the road, not for me, but for, um, missionaries that came in to replace me.

Well, and you also got, um, a signed jersey from Tom Brady. That was kind of fun.

That was, that was lots of fun because that was after arguably the worst week in my mission, where I had a companion who— I think the energy and enthusiasm— I was told on my mission that missionaries were scared of me because I was incredibly enthusiastic as a person. And that was terrifying to missionaries to wake up at 6:30 and have someone who was woohoo and kind of excited. And that's kind of how I put myself up for the day was I just had a very, very positive outlook on each day. And I think that really helped me. And he was not that and did not want to get up in the mornings and didn't want to go out and teach. And so we had some arguments and got close to a fistfight, and that led to him being transferred pretty quickly. Um, and then so the end of that week, the, um, trainer for Tom Brady actually gave me a signed Tom Brady jersey because I'd given him my jersey the week before. I'm like, I'm big Tom Brady fan. I love this. So that's one of my favorite souvenirs, is it as one of my favorite NFL players. And it happened to be at a time where I felt very down in the dumps, and it was a great tender mercy.

You know, Ian, you never had a missionary companion you didn't get along with, did you?

I had one that, uh, I still have nightmares over.

We won't go there.

But, uh, JD, I think, I think it's great that you're on, you know, you're taking time out to share your experience with us. So really appreciate that. Um, uh, I have a— and Tom Brady, because we have an international audience, Tom Brady is an NFL player, correct?

He is. He was the quarterback for the New England Patriots, and then he switched to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. So he is an NFL player, yes.

Okay, so because some of our international players— listeners, rather— may not know that name. Just wanted to check that. Um, I've got a few questions actually, which I think tie quite nicely together. Um, first, I just want to acknowledge that, um, your— you know, that conversation you had with the APs there was, um, unhinged you. Yes, you, you, you felt unhinged. You were concerned, you worried that you might go home. You had to wait a week, it sounds like, before you met with the mission president. I think it's, it's interesting to note that the first thing you said when you walked through the door, that you were fine, you were okay. I think that really speaks volumes about the mission president. I think you mentioned earlier that that helped establish a good relationship with him from the outset, if I heard that correctly. And I think it's, uh, important to note that the mission president sets the tone and direction for the mission, and having that relationship with the mission president is critical to having a successful missionary experience. He's the leader of the mission. Yeah, so, and that, that is your dad's experience and my experience with, um, President Ben B. Banks, you know, where we had that wonderful experience. And then later on, Jim had that, um, pretty good rapport, it sounds like, with, uh, Joseph Field McConkie, the son of Bruce R. McConkie. And Jim served with, um, Joseph Field McConkie for, uh, uh, Was it 5 months? Okay. And so, you know, you had relationship, good. I think the relationship with the mission president is really important. I've got a few questions which are kind of bundled together, the more operational-related questions. So my questions are, and if you can give an answer to these questions on your 3 different mission experiences, just to qualify, when you went back to Argentina, was it the same mission president?

It was the same mission president, but it felt like a completely different mission.

Interesting. All right. So just with that in mind, so there's my question. Just, I'll try to bundle them together. In terms of operations, which you've touched upon slightly, how did they differ across these missions? Notwithstanding you went back to the Argentina mission, the same mission, in terms of, you know, were the incent— any incentives for you to baptize more people? Um, in Scotland, for example, we had an incentive program where you were, you were allowed to go to the mission home and watch a movie and have a pizza. I remember that was, um, that happened one time if you were able to reach so many baptisms. And in Venezia, one that your dad and I were in, I think we, uh, you remember that time, Jim? We went down to the mission home there, and I think we had that, um, we, we had that pizza and we had that movie.

—Yeah, we watched Ben-Hur. We watched Ben-Hur.

That was the treat, and we had some pizza. So my questions are, you know, were there any incentives for you to baptize people? Were there any special or strange or weird programs that you followed in each of the different missions to again incentivize you and motivate you to, you know, go baptize people? Was the emphasis mostly on baptisms compared to, say, service? What were some of the more successful or least successful programs? Did you have any success with referral program with the members or not? And again, any other interesting things that you could tell us about the proselyting efforts in terms of the operations, the tracting, the proselyting? For example, in Scotland, President Ben Banks, Billy Banks, introduced a questionnaire, a family questionnaire, and the first few questions weren't, if I remember rightly, Jim, weren't religious. It was mostly about, you know, do you have a family, and do you think— I think, do you think families are important? I think that was one of the questions. It was a very different and very distinct approach to sharing the gospel back in— and very manipulative. Very manipulative. Manipulative. I think there was a time where there was some instruction or some messaging that, you know, some experimental approaches, including taking your name tag off, which I never felt comfortable. In fact, never did. I always get my name tag. I, I, there's no way I was going to, uh, lie or deceive, you know, to get in someone's home and then they find out that I'm a Mormon missionary. But if you could talk about the operations, the different approaches, any motivations, any you know, programs that you did across each mission that encouraged you to, you know, baptize? And was that the emphasis on baptisms? And if you did reach your quota, was there any reward? So what can you tell us about the different operations across each mission, including when you went back into Argentina that you mentioned was quite different the second time you went?

Yeah. Well, I will first say the approaches of the mission presidents were very different in terms of how they wanted to treat their missionaries and the expectations from them. Both of them were driven by, let's bring as many people as we can to the church, let's baptize as many people. My mission president in Argentina, his idea was, the more people you baptize, the more converted you will become to the gospel. And so just, we want as many Baptists as possible. The goal is one a week was his outset. He said one a week is our standard of excellence, is what they call it.

That's extraordinary. Just as it was. So the more baptisms you delivered, the more converted you were.

That was the sentiment preached. To the mission, as you continually experienced the change that the gospel had on someone else. And so that change would bring an effect on you. That was his pattern of thinking. And so the idea— and then the approach to that was just talk to everyone. So it's just as many people as you see on the buses, on trains. I remember one of my first weeks in the mission, we got on a train and we just yelled to the entire train and saw who would come and speak with us. That was great for confidence boosting. I think we got maybe one lesson out of that, but it was— the goal was just talk to as many people as possible throughout the day. And then if you can, if your ward happens to have activities, invite people to activities. But there was never a big emphasis on work with the ward, work with the ward members. And then that became more clear to me when I went to Tampa. So first time in Argentina, it was really just talk with as many people as possible, knock on as many doors as possible. Every time you're with a member, make it really quick. And then right at the end, ask them, do you know anyone that wants to be taught? And move on. Just really quick. Just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and move on. And then I went to Tampa and it completely changed. Because his pattern of thinking was, let's convert the missionary. Let's make the missionary believe in the gospel as much as they can. And as they do that, they're more likely to find success on their mission, whether it be through numerical success or through activating members or creating a very vibrant ward culture. It was still, we want to baptize, but there are other forms of let's find success. There was never true incentivization, like some incentives for baptizing. That was never a thing that happened in either of my missions. But we would set goals for like our zones. So we would— I remember one year, or not one, one transfer, me and my companion, we gave out stickers to the entire zone. That was like a symbol that we called baptism. And then we would meet once a week with the zone over like a Zoom call, which is really fun. We would meet I think it was Wednesday nights after everyone was done proselyting, and we would have a quick 30-minute call and chat with everyone. So I also learned to connect better with missionaries there because I saw them a lot more often, and there were so many of them that just kept coming in and out of the mission. But there it was a lot more, let's work with the members, let's connect with the members, as the people in the US aren't as used to someone coming up and just chatting with them on the streets as the people in Argentina, at least the location that I found myself in, where it was a poorer location, at least the areas that I served in. And so it was a lot of work with members, work with less active members, talk with them all the time. And so I cultivated a lot, a lot of member relations. And the help that I had family in one of the wards, in the other ward, some of my— they became some of my closest friends. Um, they actually flew out to Utah once and they met with us, and they came out another time and I got lunch with them, and they're some of my favorite people in the entire world. And so that was a really cool experience to have more of a focus on member work, of understanding, let's actually meet with them, let's set up times, let's go to dinners with them, and let's cultivate these relationships so that they trust the missionaries enough to invite their friends to meet with them. Or one of my favorite things that was pushed in our mission was find creative ways to preach the gospel. So with Facebook emerging and social media emerging, we were using Facebook. We hadn't branched out to like different forms of social media. Like, I know their mission using TikTok and Instagram now. They use their personal social medias as well. We just had a Facebook page. And it was— we came up with some of the most wacky little videos or pictures. One time we did like baking where there's someone hiding behind your shirt, so they'd be your arms, and they would cook for you while you would relate the gospel topic to cinnamon rolls. Or I remember I went chalking, so I would take chalk and I would write out gospel messages on the street. People would come up and ask me what I was doing. And that was really fun. I made tons of random videos. That we tried to get to go viral, that people would message our Facebook page and be like, hey, I want to meet. And that was really cool. We actually got a lot of connections, not so much from my area, but within the zone. People messaged our Facebook page and then passed those referrals out. So a lot of more social media referrals that we were trying to work with. And at the very beginning, we were talking about big data. We actually had two missionaries assigned specifically to analyzing Facebook data. How can we make our Facebook How can it have more engagement? How can it reach more people? How can— what type of posts are people engaging with? Which ones are the more popular? And we would try and edit our feed based off the data they provided to us. And so big data played actually a big role in the Tampa mission. So that was really cool because we had two missionaries just dedicated purely to technology and understanding how we can better utilize the technology we had. One of my favorite things that I did for creative missionary work was I created a member bingo card. So it was a 5x5 square with small little activities that we could do, where whether it be find a name for the temple, whether it be serve your neighbor, whether it be— I can't remember all of them— read the scriptures as a family, or do Come Follow Me, or do Come Follow Me with a Friend, and read 25 of these squares. And every time you got a bingo, we would provide some sort of reward. I cooked an insane amount of lemon bars and rolls that transfer, as that was some of the rewards we provided to them if they did some of these things.

And you got mom's recipe for that, didn't you?

I got mom's recipe for that. And if they got a blackout, we would take a video of ourselves and smash whipped cream in our face. And so that happened once. It was, it was the Patricks that completed the blackout. And so the idea was, if they would do small little things, and we'd meet with them, like, I think one of the squares was set up a 10-minute meeting with the missionaries. And that checked off one of the squares. And so we met with tons of members, we got to know the ward really well, and they found lots of fun in small missionary activities. And that cultivated great relationships where they started to trust the missionaries more in that area. So that was one of the favorite— my favorite things I've ever done on my mission was creating this bingo sheet and just passing it around to members. And they had lots of fun with it as well. But then I got a call, I think it was in February of 2021, that I was going back to Argentina. So that was a big surprise to me. I didn't think that was going to happen. Went back to Argentina and I was there for 6 months. And when I say the missionary completely changed, it was so much technology. They had dove in headfirst into let's use social media. Every companionship had a phone of some sort. Some of the leaders had two phones. A lot of times the zone leaders had two phones. Each of these APs had a phone. And so with that, we would just message people all over the place. I mean, my companions would join Facebook groups, making sure that they were safe and not inappropriate.. And we would just send posts of our Facebook page, or we would send in comments being like, hey, would anyone like to learn about Jesus? And we have tons of responses. I met tons of people in my area or other areas that ended up getting baptized just from into random Facebook groups. And it was really, really cool then. But they changed the standard of excellence. So beforehand, it was just talk to as many people as possible, one baptism a week. That was the ideal goal. Most people didn't reach one baptism a week. But it became— you needed to, I think, talk to like 120 people in a week on the streets. You needed to teach, I think it was 20 or 30 lessons during the week. You needed to contact so many people through phone calls or through Facebook. And then the last one was get one baptism a month. So we had this very strict thing that you needed to hit. And then every week in our WhatsApp group, they would send out, hey, here's who hit it, here's what's going on. And they would celebrate those who hit the standard of excellence. So if you hit the number of lessons complete, you and your companion's face would be on this bar chart, and they would put that out to incentivize saying, look, the entire mission knows you're doing absolutely fantastic. You're baptizing, you're teaching all over the place, you're talking to all these people, you're contacting so many people on the street, you're asking for so many member referrals. But that time around, that was a big change. And then we had companions, some would honestly want to sit inside all day and call, even though we could go walk outside. They had started their mission during COVID So they had no ability to go outside and talk. They didn't didn't know how to talk to people on the street. So they are much more comfortable sitting in for 4 or 5 hours just calling over and over again. And that was also different because the amount of times that we would get on a call and it was me and my companions, each of us had a phone. And so people would walk out of the room with their phone on a call to make sure that I, that I wouldn't interrupt the lesson. And so we would be teaching 2 lessons at a time. They'd come back in, we both had set up appointments. Which isn't something you're really supposed to do, but it would happen all the time. So we would set appointments, just crazy. So the goal was call someone, set an appointment for them in person and go in person eventually. But it happened quite often. And it also changed because the restrictions on how many times people could go to church was different due to health issues. And so some of the people that got baptized were just in a pool in their backyard, and they had never even seen the church building. And so they had no idea where it was. And they— the missionaries who baptized them stopped talking to them, and then they were never heard of again. They just kind of disappeared into, into a memory. But the combination of my first two experiences really helped me there, because I helped cultivate really good ward relationships with a lot of those wards that other missionaries weren't doing. I really tried to put a big focus on that. As well as knowing how to use Facebook in a more efficient manner that I learned from Tampa, which is really cool. So that was two really good experiences in a mission that felt completely different because of the types of missionaries that were there that had never learned to speak with people on the street, as well as the mass drive to use technology. Just if you can use Facebook was essentially the goal because you'll reach so many more people than you ever could on the street or in a bus.

So did you ever feel like you didn't have anything to do? Because I got that sense from Sam that there were, there were big long stretches where there wasn't enough to do. But it sounds like you were absolutely busy and had all kinds of stuff to do.

In Tampa, I think the first 2, 3 months it felt like there wasn't a lot to do. Because we couldn't leave the church building. So I was just sitting and calling until restrictions were finally lifted in Tampa. In Tampa, restrictions lifted a lot earlier than other places in the US, which I was grateful for at the time. But that felt like I had nothing to do for a long while there. But in Argentina, it felt like I had calls. I'd wake up before we did personal study. And we would have messages from tons of people. We'd set up lessons throughout the entire day. I remember just— I have vivid memories of just sprinting from lesson to lesson sometimes, and I would show up at houses just completely sweaty and out of breath because we were running with big coats on because it was freezing outside, but we had to run there. There were many a time where lessons were scheduled And our mission president was okay. He said, as long as you're teaching, it's okay. And so I had lessons scheduled at like 10, 10:30 at night on the phone or on a phone call. One of the people I ended up baptizing, the only time he could call us was at 11 o'clock at night when we were supposed to be in bed. So we set up calls with him every night at 11 for like 2 or 3 weeks. He got baptized after that. So we were up late, we were out proselyting, I would set up calls meetings with people like 10 and then come back. So most of the day, the only break I got was lunch and we were just running back and forth. Or I knew where members were, less active members were, and I would just go knock their doors and find them. And they're always happy to talk with you. So it felt like there was always something I could be doing if I didn't have anything to do. And then I'm the type of person that I'll find things to do. So if I saw like street preachers, I was the annoying missionary that I go and talk with a street preacher while they have their microphone out. And they weren't very happy with me during those moments. Or on buses, I would make sure I just talked with everybody in the bus. So I always found something to do, but there was always something to be doing that last 6 months in Argentina, which is why it just kind of cruised by, just because there was always something to do throughout the day. You're always absolutely exhausted from teaching, which is very different, I assume, than what you and Ian experienced in Scotland.

Yeah, Ian, how would it be if that were our experience? Oh boy.

Um, yeah, in, in some ways, you know, there's some similarities there between the missions. You know, you talked about tracting early on and, and traditional proselyting, but then it— COVID changed everything, didn't it? 100%. I mean, COVID, wow, what an event. It affected businesses and people's lives and, you know, government operations, hospitals, all kinds of organizations. It's changed everything. And now we meet, a lot of meetings that we have is all, you know, even now it's all online. And again, in some ways it's similar, you know, pre-COVID, similar to what Jim Bennett, the dad, did in and how we serve Scotland in some ways. I think, I say, COVID changed everything, and it's a completely different mission experience now. A couple of questions, Jenny, for me is when you were, you know, during the COVID era period, were you actually, you were trying to find people using social media, that's clear, and you had these different ideas and techniques and different initiatives and different, um, you know, very innovative ways of how to reach people. Um, but did you teach people online? Um, and the other question I have is, did you come across, uh, and again, it's not a loaded, I'm not trying to, uh, turn it negative at all, but, uh, did you come across difficult questions with people online? Uh, what were some of the questions Did you struggle with answering some of the questions, and did you get help and support with maybe answering some of the more complex, difficult questions? By the first question is, did you actually teach lessons, uh, through social media? And then at what point did you meet with them in person? Because you got to some point meet with them in person, right? And the other question is to do with dealing with difficult questions.

Well, traditionally And not traditionally, that's the wrong word I'm looking for. You— when we went for the social media meetings, they would message our page, and then the page would say, where are you located? If they were able to say where you're located, we put a tag on them. And then missionaries from that area would reach out to them and get their contact information and say, hey, here are the missionaries in this area. Here's their number. Here's some of their, their social media profiles, reach out to them, or they'll reach out to you. We did have people messaging the page talking about all sorts of things. We got questions about polygamy, questions about LGBTQ and their relationships with the church, or questions about colob, questions about garments. We got questions— people would message the page just saying inappropriate comments. But we had plenty of lessons that were generated through social media, but they would know who we were because we would reach out to them and say, here are the missionaries in your area, because I got to run the page for a while. And so we would talk back and forth as the Facebook page until they were willing to provide more information about who they were, contact information, how could we reach out to them. And then we would reach out to them depending on where they're located. And that led to a lot of success. But traditionally, we would video call them. And then after a while, during COVID attendance to church was counted as a member teaching a Come Follow Me lesson. So if they couldn't come to the church, as long as they were developing member relationships, they could count that as attending church. And then Zoom church, they just had to hop on Zoom. So there were people that people I taught that ended up getting baptized that I never met in person. I— there was a couple in Argentina that I'm close with. One lived in Buenos Aires, like the north part of the city. There wasn't even part of my mission that I taught her a couple of times and pretty much taught her all the lessons. She told us where she lived. I found out she didn't live in our mission, so we passed her on and she got baptized like a week later and we stayed close. And then there was one in a different area that I taught for a while. And she got baptized. And so, and I had never met these people in person. So there were a couple people I honestly just never met in person until either they wanted to get baptized, or they told us where they lived, and they moved on to a different area, and they got baptized there. So that was interesting. But there, we definitely confronted difficult questions. Because the internet, if people are messaging you on the internet, they are obviously on the internet.. And they see, um, because Argentina is a primarily Christian country and it's very prominent like that, there weren't the same types of responses there were in Tampa of people asking the very difficult race questions or sexuality questions that you may typically face. Argentina still, um, hadn't really— didn't particularly care about those when I talked to people on the streets. Because everyone— I was the minority in a sense. Like, I looked weird with blonde hair and white skin. People thought I was either from Poland or Russia, or every once in a while I got Southern Brazil, which was fun. Um, but to answer those questions, I think it really helped me solidify how I wanted to treat people and how I specifically wanted to answer those about race. And about sexuality. Um, those were two big ones, or about different esoteric teachings as well. I'd argue with people about like the gift of tongues or about Kolob or things like this. And you learned to articulate yourself in a manner that is respectful because you want to provide a good image of who you are, as well as trying to be direct, saying We don't believe those things. This is how we treat people. This is how people deserve to be respected. And that's how we want to convey our message of Jesus Christ and love to these people. And every once in a while, there were questions that because of who I am, I couldn't answer well. But I had companions that thought differently. And so they were able to answer a lot more clearly in terms of things like sexuality and race than I probably was able to.

You couldn't answer them well, meaning you didn't like the answer?

Yes, I struggled a lot of times when people— because I didn't know how to tell someone as a missionary that if they had homosexual family members, or if they were homosexual themselves, or if they're part of the LGBTQ community, how I could tell them, you can't be in a relationship anymore if you want to join the church. And that very much bothered me. And I have missionaries that I know that didn't bother them. And but because I was kind of going through the motions, I did say that from time to time. And I look back, and I sometimes wish I hadn't. But I did learn to at least articulate myself in a manner that has helped me now at BYU and after my mission of how I can stand as a Christian, as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ, while choosing to love those who are around me. In terms of race, I was much more willing to accept there were— there are issues in the church's past. There are fallible leaders that made plenty of mistakes. And I will admit that to you. And we are doing our best to overcome those errors. Other missionaries I know refused to make that same claim. But I was more than willing. People asked about race. I said there were issues, we are doing our best to move past them. And we want to essentially root out racism, like President Russell Nelson said. And we, we disavow the teachings that were previously taught about race and how those who were Black were not allowed to receive the priesthood. So I was very clear about that and was able to articulate myself very well to these people as I learned these things, and also provided me lots of time to go into the mission president and ask questions about these types of things. And I learned a lot from them of how they answered these kinds of questions, and it differed from mission president to mission president. Did you get pushback for that?

I mean, because it sounds like you were willing to admit that the past teachings were racist and were mistakes. And I know when we were out on our missions, the priesthood ban, the lifting of the priesthood ban was not yet a decade old. I remember at one point I had a black companion, the late great Elder Hiscock, God rest his soul. He passed away just a couple of years ago, but he was one of my favorite companions. And I remember talking to him about it, and he said, oh yeah, but we couldn't have it then. We can have it now. And that was really as far as he wanted to discuss it. I mean, he wasn't really willing to sort of dive into the difficulty and the challenges of why couldn't we have it prior to that and what was it that was preventing it. And it was just this sort of— and I can remember at one point, this may have even been after my mission, but when I was on the LDSSA Council at the University of Southern California,, and we had a media guide, how to talk to the media. Uh, we had, we had a missionary booth that we set up on the USC campus right next to Tommy Trojan. And, and we were given this media guide, and it included some of the things about how to answer questions. And one of the things it said was, okay, if you're asked about race and the priesthood, uh, focus on how The church was abolitionist in its early days and was criticized. But the final line, I will never forget the actual— I could quote it. It said, "Never apologize for the Lord and his church." We were just not able to admit that it could possibly have been an error. And I remember at one point we, uh, up in Thurso, there was a docu— not documentary, but there was a show that came out. And, uh, it was this thing where— do you remember this, Ian? It was like, uh, they were these young hip guys and they were circling around and just throwing questions out at a group of Mormons. And, and it, uh, they brought up race in the priesthood and we were teaching family up in Thurso that eventually got baptized, and I was just terrified because we were just, we just didn't talk about it. We just didn't bring it up. And in the days of the internet, prior to the internet, you could get away with that. And so, so did you get pushback if you were to say that, Jetty? I mean, if you were to say, no, I think it was a mistake. I mean, we're trying to move past it. But knowing you, I know that that's kind of where you are.

In Argentina, we had one zone conference where it was brought up, and they made the argument that there were people that waited for years to get the priesthood in Africa. And then so we have to be faithful about it as well. But that question really never came up in Argentina. In Tampa, came up with arguments with missionaries from time to time. And I was more than willing to say I disagreed with that. And I didn't face pushback because it came from all my thoughts. I did my best to articulate them from the Gospel Topics Race and the Priesthood essays, as well as Saints, which had been recently published, that talks very— what's the word? It did its best to be unbiased in its presentation of the history of the saints.. And so the first and second edition of Saints I was reading, and that provided a lot of background on, um, race in the priesthood. And so in order to diminish pushback that I may have faced otherwise, I made sure I was talking directly from these, the Gospel Topics Essays or from Saints and saying, these are things that are published officially by the church. This is where they stand currently, um, where they don't agree anymore with past teachings provided to us, as those were generated due to ideas of the times, such as the civil rights movement, where people wholeheartedly disagreed with that. Because people will find quotes that exist and ask us about these quotes of like Brigham Young, for example. And you have to address that in one way or another and say, though, that no longer is taught nor believed, and we, we are doing our best to move past that.

Your mission. So how many, how many other missionaries knew about the Gospel Topics Essays?

I'm not entirely sure. I never asked. I'd say at least the ones I interacted with, the majority of them knew about the Gospel Topics Essays. They did their best to share this information with them. In our personal study, they'd recommend They're like, do like 20 or 30 minutes of Book of Mormon study, make sure you get Preach My Gospel study in there. And then go through different things in the standard library, or the church library on gospel— because we have our app now that we could use on our phone and read through things there. And so I think a lot of the missionaries knew about the Gospel Topics Essays. And if they didn't, I was more than welcome to bring up the Gospel Topics Essays. But Those are things that I think all the missionaries should know about. At least in Tampa, people definitely knew about them more than in Argentina.

Jedy, you were clearly an extraordinary, insightful, and very emotionally intelligent missionary. You know, you were courageous in following your own, uh, conscience on things and, uh, you know, gave honest answers to people. Um, it also sounds like the, the mission, the missions that you were in, um, I think you were talking, if I'm not mistaken, the probably the last few months, you know, the 6 months you were in Argentina, it sounds like, where you were able to share other materials or make reference to like the essays. Were there any, um, was there a policy in the missions, uh, you know, towards, you know, during COVID where, or anytime where you were supposed to follow a certain pattern or certain standard in terms of response. I remember when I was on the state presidency and the Race and the Priesthood essay came out back in 2013, which I was delighted to see and actually spoke about and was told to not reference it. He was even told that that wasn't an official document because it wasn't No one at that time, it was approved by the First Presidency, you know, it came out in 2013. But when I asked a mission president in the Vancouver Mission in British Columbia, you know, can they, does the, do the missionaries make reference to the essays? His answer was, we do not deviate from the, the official Preach My Gospel manual. But it sounds like you were, you were allowed to do that, that you could reference these essays and, um, and, and be able to talk about these things. Is that, is that correct? You, we, did you have quite a free hand or were you, we, did you still have some standard responses that, hey, look, if someone asked this question, give them this answer, like, you know, almost word for word, including to the essays? Or were you able to have the freedom to give your own opinion or interpretation, um, of any of the materials that you had in response to questions that you were presented?

I mean, I don't think I ever said these are from the Gospel Topics Essays when I spoke to people about these. But I would say that these are the stances of the church as it currently is. I think Preach My Gospel, that my bishop president shared, was learn the topics of Preach My Gospel, make sure you understand them very well. But the whole goal is that you teach by the Spirit, being able to articulate your own ideas and your interpretations in a way that will impact the people you're teaching. So I never had a set response for any of these questions. I think it changed from person to person. I think I was also influenced by mission presidents of how I would respond to people. So they would respond to people in different manners. And both my mission presidents were very different. And I mean, race was never brought up with them at all. But if I did have the opportunity to bring that up, it was me and my companion's judgment of how we should respond to the situation. It wasn't, here's exactly what you should say. It was, how can we address the situation in a way that helps them understand that they are still loved? I would typically go straight to 2 Nephi 26:33, where it says, all are like unto God, male and female, black, white, Jew and Gentile. And I said, God, regardless of who you are, loves you. And that is how the church stands now. That was one of the big things I would say to people. So I think I wouldn't have— I was never told to respond in a certain manner, but I think you learn certain ways that people react the best to those types of subjects. And I would use those when speaking about these difficult subjects. But it was always up to the judgment of me and my companion of how— what was the best way to teach these people? What is the best way to interact with them in a way that makes them feel safe and loved by Jesus Christ?

So, for example, to be specific, when you were teaching LGBTQ people, presumably you may have taught, um, individuals who were, you know, who were gay, uh, did you teach— did you tell them that what they were doing was a sin, or that they had, uh— well, what did you teach them in terms of their, uh, behavior and their, um, you know, LGBTQ, uh, experiences? Was it a sin, or what What did you— how did you teach those individuals?

Well, in Argentina, it's still a country that is very much against openly being LGBTQ. And so I never honestly really experienced that in Argentina. I didn't run into many people that at least openly expressed that they were gay. And no one ever had issues with those teachings. In Tampa, when I ran into that, it was very, very difficult for me to ever say this is a sin. You can't do this. And so I would always— I had mission companions that very much, they said that whole, like, straight off the bat. And so as a companionship, I did my best, especially during a lesson, to not butt heads with anyone. And so if they said that, I would say, but God wants— but God loves you and accepts you for who you are. You are is who God wants you to be. And you can still be loved in the church. As someone who's LGBTQ. Maybe it was passive for maybe avoiding the conversation of their relationships. I had companions, or I knew other missionaries that were more than welcome to say that, and they felt no guilt, or they felt no remorse for saying that. And that was always something that troubled me. How could I phrase that? So I was typically the person that talked more about how God loves them and accepts them and wants them to be who they are. And wants to be a part of the church and part of that community. Even if it feels like they feel like an outsider was how I tended to approach that issue. And maybe it was a bit of a glance away of never really bringing up saying, you are sinning, because most people I taught that weren't gay weren't in a relationship at the time.

Well, so your mother would be upset with me if we kept you too much longer. Tomorrow's a school day. And, but, and I appreciate you taking the time to this. So to sum this up, so your mission was a positive experience for you, was a faith-building experience for you. Where do you find yourself now in terms of your faith? How much does your mission inform where you find yourself now? How much do you find yourself sort of going back and recalling that and drawing on that to feed yourself spiritually?

I'd say I draw from that a lot. I love talking with other missionaries when I run into them. But Provo has this environment where everyone feels the need to reference their mission and actually ostracizes people quite a bit because there are people that don't serve a mission or aren't members of the Church or are more on the outskirts of it. And so a continual conversation about the mission actually makes some people feel unwelcome in certain conversations. And so it helps me draw on how I can interact with people that aren't members of the church or people who aren't currently speaking about the church and still have spiritual conversations. So one of the big things is it taught me to have spiritual conversations in a much more normal manner. And it feels much more natural if it does come up. And I don't feel queasy, like maybe I did when I was 17, where I feel uncomfortable because it's not the cool thing to talk about. But now I'm willing to have these kinds of conversations. And it's taught me— the biggest thing is it taught me how the Spirit communicates with me and how I can understand when I'm hearing the voice of the Lord. And if that is happening, then I'm growing as a disciple now, not just from my mission. And so it's taught me again, to have a positive outlook on each day and move forward as I can grow far past my mission, even if I've— I reach back from time to time, but I try really hard to find new experiences now rather than continually reaching back to feed myself spiritually, which has made my faith, the— my growth in faith, anything but linear. Um, it's not a straight line at all. I think it goes all sorts of places and it's continually growing. Um, but I think it really allowed me to learn how to have those types of conversations and how to answer questions when they come up in my own life.

So in terms of your relationship with the church now, I mean, do you see yourself, do you feel spiritually fed as a member of the church? Do you find yourself frustrated with aspects of the church? I mean, I'm just sort of looking for a summation of where Jetty Bennett is in 2024 with regard to your relationship with the church?

With the church, I feel frustrated. I think there are policies that I don't agree with, like the transgender policy that recently came out. I'm frustrated with teaching towards LGBTQ, mostly because of how that's allowed members to treat members of the LGBTQ+ community. Frustrated with members who aren't willing to accept how race has had an impact in our history. And so that has great frustration with me. But I still have a love for Christ and his teachings. So I think I have a good relationship with— I don't know what I'm trying to say— with, I'd say, the gospel. And I have very much frustration with sometimes how it's portrayed and the attitude of members of the church.

I just want to say, and I know we're coming to a close here, Jerry, you be one of the most insightful, emotionally intelligent return missionaries I've ever met. I mean, if you are the future of the church, I'm encouraged and I have hope. For future generations, because I, I, I think you're incredibly sens— mature and sensitive and thoughtful and insightful, and you think about these things very carefully. And I think you see, uh, a more, um, uh, in a more mature way than even some of our leaders in the church, frankly, um, who at times can be quite fixed in the past and quite narrow-minded and quite entrenched. So I just want to thank you so much for taking time to come on here. I think your outlook is, is just so encouraging, and, and I, and I again have confidence that the church, you know, if you are the future of the church, then the church will just get better. I really, I really feel that, and that comes from very clearly and very strongly. So thank you so much. I think you're an extraordinary man, you man, I mean that. Thank you.

Thank you so much. I've enjoyed being on here, and you two are great. And I really had the chance to talk with you last week, so that was lots of fun getting to know you better. And both of you are people I love quite a bit. So thank you.

So, well, you're, you're, you're awesome, Jed. You've always been awesome. You were awesome from the day you were born. And so, uh, so thanks very much for sharing this with us, and Love you, man.

Love you, Jim Bennett.

And, and Ian, thank you for joining us here in this conversation. It's been an honor.

It really has. Thank you, Teddy.

Thank you, Jim. And thank you all who are listening. And we appreciate you spending this time with us. We look forward to joining you again in our next episode of Inside now.