A Glimpse of the Other Side

Hello and welcome to another episode of Inside Out. My name is Jim Bennett and I am once again very grateful to be joined by the Unsinkable Ian Wilkes. Ian, how are you, sir?

I'm doing okay. I'm doing okay, Jim. Unsinkable is probably an appropriate word for this podcast, for sure.

Well, it comes from the Unsinkable Molly Brown, who was a passenger on the Titanic, and she survived and went on. And as I've thought about this, I, when I did my solo podcast, although I had Oprah Winfrey join me, I don't know if you noticed that. That was it.

I did. That was a great podcast.

Yes. Well, Oprah was really grateful to be here, but was really looking forward to your return. All I said in that podcast was Ian Wilkes is under the weather. And I said he will— I will leave it. I don't feel like it's my place to say how under the weather he is, or, you know, I will leave that to him when he returns and he will return. And you have returned. But I was well aware that that was a considerable understatement for what you've gone through in this past week. And, and I've asked if you'd be willing to share that, because I think you've got some experiences that will help people. And as we go on, I want to make sure that you recognize that you should feel free to say as much or as little as you are comfortable saying, because I think this has been a tremendously personal experience. And so I don't feel like you should feel any obligation to provide any level of detail that you don't want to provide. But As we've talked about this, it seems very clear that you are game to tell the whole story. And so can you let the listeners know where you've been and what you've been doing this past week and what's been happening to you this past week?

Yes, of course I will. It is good to be here. In fact, it's good to be anywhere right now. On the podcast you did last week. It was brilliant, one of my favorite podcasts, and I listened to it while I was in hospital. That's where I've been the last week or so. I only came out of the hospital yesterday, was admitted just over a week ago, and the podcast greatly uplifted me and actually made me, made me laugh. And, and as you know, and as I've shared with our listeners before, I'm a deeply private, personal individual, and we talked, I've shared reasons why I feel a bit more confident now talking about my life and, and talk about many of the topics that we discussed. And I've gained a level of hopefully humble confidence, as President Banks would, uh, would term it, um, where I feel a bit more confident. We've done what, 30-odd podcasts now, and I wrestled with the idea about even doing such a thing and opening up and talking about all kinds of experiences, but This whole podcast experience has strengthened me enormously, Jim Bennett, and I'm grateful to you for that. And certainly the amazing support and feedback we got from many of our listeners. And most importantly, I think the fact that our podcasts hopefully continue to help others and strengthen others and build others up. And that's the reason why I thought of doing the podcast in the in the first place. It's been also very therapeutic. And so this week's podcast is different. It's unusual. It's, uh, strange. It's otherworldly. It's supernatural. It's, uh, it's extraordinary, uh, for me at least. And, and I hope those listening will gain some strength and some hope and faith, um, for those who have faith, in, uh, hereafter and life, uh, power beyond the grave, this will just confirm probably what you already know. And those who perhaps are asking questions, are not sure of this, I think, but also looking for answers to questions about life. I'm not saying I have all the answers by any means. I don't have, you know, have any of the answers, of course. But I think my experience hopefully will strengthen, give hope to those who perhaps got questions in terms of what that, you know, what happens, or does something happen after we, uh, after we, we die? And so where, where and how do I begin with this experience? Uh, and I've asked myself, you know, should I share this, this experience? Uh, will it help others? The answer is an easy yes. And then I asked myself, should I share this experience now? And again, the answer is an easy yes because it's so fresh very clear in my mind and probably now is the time to, to do that. Now again, I still can't believe I'm actually here talking about this. So without further ado, I'll, I'll get into, into this. So I mentioned last earlier before we started recording it that the last week has been without doubt the most extraordinary week of my, my entire existence. And for the first time in my life, I had the experience, or part of the experience of dying. And, uh, or perhaps maybe the best way to describe the experience is, is, is on the brink of death or right on the edge or very edge of this life. And, uh, looking over, uh, into at least having a glance even for a short moment of what it looks like on the other side. Probably in a very narrow way, in a very small, minute way. Um, I'm always cautious, Jim, about, uh, using the term near-death experience, uh, because that means perhaps different things to different people. And there are many definitions, of course, of what that is, uh, you know, what is a near-death experience. And, um, one definition, uh, is, uh, an unusual experience. I'm just quoting here from source on the internet here. There's, there's many definitions. One definition is a, you, unusual experience taking place on the brink of death and recounted by a person after recovery, typically an out-of-body experience or a vision of a tunnel of light. Mine was, so what I'm saying is that I did have, in hindsight now, is this fresh in my mind, a near-death experience. Uh, my, um, definition of that is a little bit different perhaps than some in that, uh, technically from a physical perspective, it was medically, uh, a near-death experience. Medically it was a near-death experience. Emotionally, uh, as I thought, what does that mean emotionally? Well, I actually felt and believed for the first time in my life that this was it. This was my time. My time was up. I mean, really, um, and not just a passing thought, that actually this is it, this is where it, this is where it all ends, this is how it's going to end, and, uh, and this, this is it, this is my final few moments. And actually, uh, believe that, you know, some people have these experiences and they may not be— they may or may not be close to physical death, but they might believe they are. And in so believing, they— it brings them to that emotional level and that despair of, my goodness, I'm not going to get through this. So this, this is that, this is it. And that was, that was that for me. And this was the first time I'd ever experienced that. I mentioned earlier before we recorded that I'd met countless people yourself, you could speak from your own experience across your life, your mission, and other people that you've loved and known over the years who've gone past beyond the veil. And you heard their experiences, you've seen from your own experience, you've heard their experiences, and some have come back and not gone as far as they thought they were going. And you've heard those experiences. That's, that's one Well, that's one aspect to this. The other one is actually going through it yourself. And, you know, what happened to me, I thought that was it. So physically, technically, medically, under those definitions, it was minutes away. Emotionally, I thought I was actually going to die. Spiritually, complete opposite. I've never felt more alive in my entire existence. And mentally as well, interestingly, I know a, um, like a catapult or springboard into, uh, extraordinary, um, mental expansion. Going from something very, um, an experience of mentally ending, you know, my, my, my whole mental, uh, well-being or state was coming to an end, but then quickly bouncing back into something far greater and far grander. So let me get into the details here. So last, a week last Monday, so this is fresh, this is extremely recent. I headed out from where I am right now to do a regular daily walk of 6K. There's a walk near where we live. We live some around some orchards and there's lots of trails and hikes and walks. And there's a few hills and it's a fantastic place just to go walking straight out from where we live right now, about 50 meters into the walk. And if I went to my window right now, I could see— and this is, this is quite upsetting in some ways or uncomfortable in other ways— I can actually see the moment and the spot where, where this experience happened to me. So as I headed out for my walk, about 50 meters into the walk, literally just up the road from here, I suddenly felt sharp pains across my upper part of my chest. The pains were just intense, so intense it stopped me in my tracks. And within a second or two, I was curled over in agonizing pain. I'd never felt pain like it, Jim. At the same time, I experienced a sudden loss of breath. I, I couldn't— I was— I remember trying to breathe deep, had to slow my breathing, but I just couldn't catch my breath. I just— something was stopping me from breathing. And, you know, as I think of the experience now, it was just It was just so sudden and so extreme. And again, at the same time, all these things happening at the same time, I began to feel dizzy, faint, and my head began to pound like someone was beating it like a drum. This happened within 2, 3, 4 seconds of this pain, arrival of this pain on my upper part of my chest. I also began to sweat. I remember touching the fore— my forehead and, and feeling, uh, quite a bit of sweat, uh, on my head. Not dripping, nothing like that, but it was, it was quite, uh, damp. Um, and then a, a few more seconds in, or a second or two in, I knew there was something seriously wrong. And I remember saying to myself in my mind, you know, you're having a heart attack. This is like all the hallmarks of a heart attack. Um, and the pain just intensified and I, I curled over and was still standing at this point, although my knees were somewhat bent. And there was a grassy knoll just to the right of me. And I moved myself slowly over towards that. And as I moved towards the grass area, and began to try to lay down, before I could lie down, I actually remember vision going. It went from— it went to like blurred to gray and then to black, to darkness. And I, I think it was passing out. I think I passed out. I know I was only there for a short, short time, and I'll explain why I think that later. But as I passed out again, I remember my, my sight, you know, disappearing. Um, I could, I could still hear things around me, but I couldn't see anything. Um, I don't remember actually hitting the grass or that last moment before I was crouching down trying to, you know, lie down or sit down on the grass. Um, but what happened next was, um, was, was, I don't know what to use. Um, I don't have a word to use. You're better at words than I am, but interesting. Is, is one word. I can think of other words, but interesting and extraordinary, the only words I can think of. I'm still trying to make sense of it all. Um, so, so many questions and so many thoughts going through my mind. And so, um, what happened next was, as the, um, as quickly as the, um, the the darkness of the blackness was— I couldn't see anything, rather. Went dark, it went black. A moment later, I saw this light, Jim, this light all around me. It wasn't like a tunnel of light. I didn't see a tunnel of light as people describe going into tunnel, nothing like that. It was just like an all-around light, like the sun was coming up, but coming up quickly. Um, you know those cameras where they do, um, uh, speed up the sunset or the, or the sunrise?

Yeah.

Uh, it, but imagine that going, happening very quickly, something like that. So the sun just, this light just appeared, bright light. It was, uh, it was, it was a white light. It was more not yellow light, it was a white light. And, um, and it happened quickly. It just appeared almost instantly. And then in the distance there, I could see a fuzzy or blurred shape of a meadow. I could make out trees. Whilst it came in a little bit of focus, and I could make out the shapes of trees, I want to be— as I thought about this, I'm trying to describe it as accurately as I can. It was the shapes of things that I saw and not necessarily the detail. I could see trees, there were obviously trees, the wildflowers, I could see the colors. It was like a, like a, I've looked on the internet and I, and I found a couple of pictures that look very similar, you know, the, a meadow, like a Scottish meadow with all the wildflowers and beautiful sunny day, which is quite rare in Scotland, isn't it? But you know, the rain's gone, it's a beautiful day and the flowers have come out and you, I could hear, I could hear birds singing. I could hear, I could feel, feel nature. I could, it was a meadow of beautiful wildflowers like a beautiful summer's day. It was warm. I, I felt this soft breeze on my skin. I definitely, and interestingly, I smelled wildflowers, Jim Bennett. I could smell the beautiful, absolutely beautiful wildflowers.

Yeah. Right. It's to me, the smell was what you emphasized more than anything else.

Yeah, it was just, I've smelled that smell before, you know, many times. And it just, it was just like that. It was just like, you know, an experience before. And it was just like enough. I think more, most significantly is how I felt. I know listeners will want to know how I felt at this time. And I, I came back from that experience. With feelings that are still with me right now. This is very fresh in my heart, my mind, and in my emotions. And I felt— and it sounds a bit cliché, as we hear these experiences, and we read that scripture in Galatians 5:22, it talks about the fruits of the Spirit, which is love, joy, and peace. But that's exactly how I felt. Exactly how I felt. I felt love, peace, completeness, a joy in a way that I'd not experienced before. Um, and the closest I've had that experience is, uh, some of the moments in my life on a mission and my experience that I had with Paul, my brother who passed away. Um, what I had a glimpse, if you like, into, um, his um, you know, what happened to him after he passed away, you know. So kind of looking at that experience, a part of it, through, you know, through his life or the last few months of his life. And so it was an incredible feeling. And, and, uh, again, it reminded me of, um, that, uh, scripture actually. I— one of my favorite scriptures that on my mission, um, Alma 36. And we've talked about this on the podcast before. He said, um, Alma talks about, uh, Um, and oh, what joy and what marvelous light I did behold! And yea, my soul was full with joy as exceeding as was my pain. Um, he talks about this, um, this joy and this marvelous light, uh, that filled his soul. And, uh, I, I think that, uh, well, I know rather that's how I felt. It completely overwhelmed me. I didn't feel any pain. I By the way, I, I, I, I, my mind didn't catch hold of any pain whatsoever. As I've, at the time, I didn't think like this. I didn't think, oh, I'm not in any pain. I just didn't think about it. As I look back and I remember, well, I, I never, I never felt any pain. As I reflect upon the experience, I didn't feel any sadness at all, only joy. Um, and the, the experience, uh, continue. Um, because in the distance, in this meadow that was gradually coming into a little bit of focus, but still, uh, not as, not clear, not, uh, I, I knew I was outside or in nature and there was a, it was a meadow. Um, I could hear voices. Um, and the sound of the voices drew closer and I could make out some shapes, human formed shapes. They were bright, like the sun, but I couldn't see them. I couldn't recognize the people. But what happened is the voices drew closer. I recognized them to be my mother, and my brother, and a good friend of mine who passed away a long time ago. And they were all of the three voices that I recall. There were other voices, but I don't remember those. I don't, I couldn't. It felt familiar. And I can't place them. I don't, I don't know why that is. But I certainly placed 3 of the voices that were very clear and very distinct. And they knew me. And I knew them. Most certainly weren't strangers to me. And the other thing as well, as I, as I look back, and I didn't think this at the time. None of these, a lot of these things that I want to think of at the time, I just was having the experience. But, um, as I look back, um, I, I remember I don't think I heard things through my ears. I know that sounds weird and strange and bizarre. How do you explain something like that? Um, I, I actually felt what they were saying, if that makes sense. It probably didn't make any sense at all, but I could feel, I could feel them communicating to me through, through some feelings. But I And I don't remember, I don't, I never said anything. Uh, I, I never said anything emotionally or spiritually to them, and I never said anything with my mouth. My mouth didn't move. And so I didn't have a conversation with them. It was them, um, speaking to me. I didn't make out the words, but I recognized, uh, the voices, but I do not know what they were saying to me. I don't know if that will— I have no memory of, no knowledge or memory of.

Did you have a— I don't mean to interrupt. Did you have a sense of your body? I mean, were you you? Were you a person there or were you just kind of a being of light?

Right. Okay. Okay. Great question. I didn't have— it never came to my mind about my own physical or spiritual state. And actually, I've not thought about that. As I've tried to, you know, write this down, make notes, try to remember as much of this experience as I can. I haven't, and there's still probably more that I will, that will come to light. But I haven't thought about anything at the time in the experience about that, and haven't thought about that or even asked that question.

I've just always wondered that when I hear about near-death experiences is that people talk about And it's like, what are you? I mean, you're not in your body, or you're not, you're out of your body. Are you still, you know, two legs, two arms, and that kind of thing?

So, okay, the only thing, the only thing, it's a good question. And again, so I want to be as accurate as I can on my memory, at least, is I don't remember having any thoughts along, you know, these questions, looking down at my body, that just didn't happen. And I haven't thought or asked that question since. It is a really interesting question. I just remember that I was me, you know, I was still me, you know, the Ian, the personality, the character, right? The spirit Ian, if you like. I don't even remember thinking if I was a spirit form or not, or even was metaphysical. Just did not Certain things are just— it was like normal. It was like it took it for granted. Like part of it was kind of, uh, normal. Um, I don't know, like somebody—

like coming home, sort of.

Yeah, it was like, uh, this is how it is kind of thing. This is how it's always been. This is how it is. I didn't ask any questions. I didn't look down on my body, nothing like that. I didn't— I don't remember having any thoughts about whether I was glowing or not, or what, you know, I just know that I was still me in spirit form, presumably in the same shape. It came to mind, but I didn't think anything. It wasn't unusual. It wasn't it was, didn't even enter my mind because it was like an ordinary thing. I know it sounds strange that, but you know, it was just like a regular thing. It was like it was supposed to be, this is how it is, how it's meant to be. And, and maybe this is how it's always been, uh, you know, in spiritual, right? Um, but I do, um, I, I remember, uh, communicating spiritually, uh, emotionally. I, again, I'm struggling for words, emotionally, spiritually, telepathically. I don't know, I'm struggling reaching out for words, but we communicated through feelings. And that felt very normal, by the way. Right now, as I've had my own experiences in my life, I felt, you know, I've shared my experience in a passing way about other experiences, and you've had your own experience. Experiences. There are many people out there who have had experiences where they, you know, there was no maybe physical communication, but they, they felt what was being said. You know, like a— excuse me— like a still small voice. It's hard to describe unless you've experienced it. We communicated without— I don't remember actually speaking. You know, making the effort to physically open my mouth and words coming out of my mouth. I'm defining, like, I know that didn't happen. My memory is clear enough to know that that did not happen. It was, I don't know, telepathically. I don't know what the word is. Well, how—

I mean, people who go through near-death experiences often say that the near-death experience is more real than reality. Was that kind of your experience? I mean, how real was this? Was this like a dream, or was this like This is really happening, this is real, and this is maybe even more real than—

Yeah, it's a great question. And again, you'll have questions on this that—

I can hold my questions to the end. I'm sorry to interrupt.

No, no, no, no, this is good. I think it's good to ask questions at this point because I think it is important to ask these questions. And some of these questions I can answer, others I will have heard the question first time. And that will get me thinking about the question. And you know, what was the experience? So, so was it— so your question was, was it as real there as it was here? Yeah. Is that the— well, the answer is yes. For me, it was. It was—

it—

and this talking about right now is very unusual, strange, bizarre, you know, weird experience. Extraordinary experience. There, it was ordinary, normal. It was, it was wonderful. It was, it was coming home. You said coming home, and I know we heard that many times, but it did feel distinctly coming home. It's where I belonged. I was with the people there, or people trying to communicate to me. I knew them, or some of them. There wasn't all these people coming up to me, nothing like that. And again, I could only see the shapes, make out the shapes, and didn't see the detail, but I felt extraordinary love and peace and my mind was, it was, um, it was a whole different dimension, a different world. And I don't remember, uh, feeling anything different than I do inside spiritually. Like it was my spirit in form, I think. Um, I, I don't know. I, I've not given that a great deal of thought. I don't know if I had a physical body, Jim, um, in, in that experience. You know, if that was what I was experiencing. I just don't know. I just don't know on that. And so there are some things I remember clearly, other things, you know, I don't, and some things I may never know. I don't. But, and please, I think you should jump in with questions because I think they're really poignant and will be timely. So, so as I say, I could, you know, you know, I couldn't make out— there were others there, but I couldn't make them out. They were further away. I mentioned that I hear them, I could feel them. I didn't say anything to them. It was like a one-way communication. It came through feelings and not through, you know, any other means. But I remember, and I don't think I've shared this with you when we messaged back and forth, I tried to move towards them, Jim Bennett.

Hmm.

And I couldn't, because something was stopping me. I was being prevented. I just, I just couldn't move forward. And I remember feeling, um, disappointed and frustrated that I couldn't, uh, move forward. And that was interesting because, um, it didn't diminish from the joy that I was feeling, but I remember that I couldn't, I couldn't go to them.. And, and I, I, I couldn't move towards, you know, those shapes. Something wouldn't let me. And at that point, the image began to fade and disappeared. And at that point, I think that's the last thing I remember at that ex— at that stage, at that point, uh, I remember a moment or so, I remember opening my eyes. So it went from that, um, you know, this whole image just, uh, disappearing. And I opened my eyes. I remember looking up at the blue sky. I was a bit confused as to where I was, but I remember when I, um, uh, to, to the right of me on this, on this grassy, uh, this grass part of the park. There were some cedar trees. So as I opened my eyes, I could see these cedar trees on the right of me, and I thought, oh, I remember this. Um, I know where I am. I remember where I am. And I remembered, uh, again in a fairly short moment, uh, that I was at the point where I'd remember the last time passing out. And so, uh, and as I came to, the pain in my chest came back to me. It was like it had not left, you know, it suddenly rushed back. The pain was still intense. And I remember I was lying, actually lying on my back at this point. As I fell, I must have, I don't know, rolled on my back and just passed out. And woken up, seen the sky, see the trees to my right, and and I remember again trying to— I remember taking big deep breaths and still scared, and, and the fear came back. Um, I went from that, uh, experience, the feeling of that, to this fear again, um, uh, that I was, you know, I was in trouble. Um, and, uh, again, this pain came flooding back, and, uh, I, I did, I did some more deep breaths. And I think I lied there for a few minutes. A few cars— I saw some of the cars driving past. I was conscious enough to hear the cars driving past near the path. The path is next to the road and this grassy area. But I took more deep breaths. As I did, I seemed to get a little bit of strength, and I stood up and I walked very slowly Taking deep breaths and I walked towards the house. I called my wife and my wife said, you know, get back to the house and lie down. And I said, no, I think I need to go to the hospital. And, and so I, I knew, I knew something awful had happened. I was in, you know, serious trouble still at that point.

And you're still in pain for all this?

Still in pain. You're still in intense pain and discomfort. I walked back to the house and still quite dizzy, sweating, but still managed to move. And instead of doing the smart thing, I feel really stupid sharing this. Um, instead of calling 911, I actually drove myself to the hospital.

Oh wow.

Yeah, like an idiot. So I, I, even then at that point I thought, I, I was so confused. I, I, I knew in one sense it was serious, but was it serious enough to call 911? Uh, and yes, it was serious enough to call 911, but, um, I did the stupid thing by just driving to, um, the hospital. So I got to the hospital and, um, I went in and I said, look, I think I've experienced— it could be a heart attack. I don't know. I'm in a lot of pain and discomfort. I was moving slowly, taking very slow steps there. She told me to sit down and just wait. I think I was there for like 10 minutes. And then I was like, no, this is not good. I need to see. So I stood up again. I said, look, I need to see something now. I think I could have another heart attack. You need to see me right now. And so I'm just letting you know. So within a few minutes, someone came out, uh, they took my— brought me in, in this, um, emergency room, took my blood, you know, pressure, uh, and, and all the— some quick tests, and they knew I was in trouble. So they, um, moved me to, um, um, take some blood work, do some blood work.. And I was lying down on this, in this bed, in this room. They did some blood work, et cetera. They gave me oxygen, so that was, that was good. Got me to do some deep breaths. Still in quite a bit of pain, but not quite as much. But the oxygen helped. And then they said, you can't find anything on the blood. I think I was there for about an hour. We're gonna take you for a CT scan. So they, it all happened pretty quickly. I was really impressed actually. But within an hour and a half or so, I was, I was went through the CT scan, and then I came back, uh, into this waiting room, um, and sat, uh, on this bed, leaning up on this bed. And then maybe half an hour later, the doctor came and said, um, you have blood clots on your lungs. You've suffered or experienced a, um, pulmonary embolism. And It says extremely serious, and in fact it's a, uh, sorry to tell you, but it's a saddle pulmonary embolism. And if you don't know what that is, I don't know how much you know about that, Jim. I knew nothing about this a week and a half ago. So what happens is, uh, a blood clot is released from a part of the body, often the legs, not always, but often the legs. Um, and it finds itself, it goes through the veins in my case, pulmonary vein. And it can, you know, it can go to the lungs. And it can significantly limit breathing. So, it clots in the lungs. If you're lucky, you get a, just a one small clot, which can block a part of a lung, or one lung, but the other lung functions, so you're okay. But in a saddle pulmonary embolism, it's a big clot, and mine was a big one. He said, it's a big one. That absolutely terrified me actually when he told me what it was. And he comes round, uh, using my hands there to describe, but it comes round, block the, the, the clot comes up the pulmonary system and then it's so big it blocks, you know, as the lungs come into the central connector part of the, um, I'm not a medical expert, but you know, the trachea where the lungs connect, where the lungs actually converge, that's the word. At the conversion point where the lungs come together, that's where, in my case, or in the saddle pulmonary embolism, that's where the clot gets blocked. So, in effect, it's blocking all air, you know, coming in, you know, into the lungs. And what happens, if you can't breathe, the heart tries to compensate, and essentially goes into overdrive. Nothing happening because it's blocked, panics, goes into turbo, nothing happening. And then you suffer a stroke or a heart attack and either serious injury or often it's a fatality. And you can research this, you know, people may have had their own experience here, but it's very easy to find information on mortality rates of pulmonary embolisms. It's extremely serious, and if not treated immediately, it's, you know, it can cause lifelong injury, or, or could, you know, it can kill you. They put me on blood thinners, heparin. I think that's how you pronounce it. It's pronounced that. And the blood thinners actually thin the blood. The blood thinners, by the way, don't break down the clot. Some of the nurses at the hospital said it breaks down the clot, but the doctor said no. The anticoagulant, mispronounced that, the blood thinners, limit or reduce or remove further risks from clots. But the body itself, through the chemistry of the blood, actually breaks down the clot. In fact, our bodies recycle blood all the time, as you probably know. You know, our skin recycles, our blood recycles. There's lots of parts of the body, or some parts of the body that gets recycled. Well, blood is no different. So if we hydrate, we, you you know, healthily, we, you know, good diets, et cetera. And our body's functioning properly. Our blood is recycled and cleans itself up in order to maintain, you know, full functioning capacity, capability of, you know, the blood and the heart system. And it's the body that breaks down the copper. That takes time. That could take months. So right now as we speak, I've got a saddle clot, size clot, which is big, you know, half an inch if you like, on, on top of my lungs. Well, which is breaking down. And I'm not out of the woods right now, by the way. This, you might, you might be solo again next week. I shouldn't joke. Oh, don't say that. I shouldn't joke. No, that, that's, we should probably cut that out. That's probably not appropriate. But, but yeah, the body breaks it down and the thinner actually removes any, reduces any further risk from any clots. So that was my week, that was my week and a half. And so I've been in hospital, I came out yesterday, and every day they do, you know, throughout the day they do vital, you know, test your vitals. The first day, first 2 days I was there, my vital signs were very unstable. I was on oxygen, I was 24-round-the-clock care, nurses checking in frequently 'cause it was pretty close what happened. There's always a risk of, you know, happening again, right? Because it do, the body do break down the clot immediately. It takes weeks, months actually. And the thinners, they take time as well, right? And you can have another clot break off, you know, from, you know, from part of the body. And so you've gotta be on round-the-clock you know, watch. They did, you know, regular checks. I was on thinners, oxygen, and I was in a special care unit. I was in the cardio. They took me to the cardio unit, which is, you know, very specialized unit 'cause there was a risk of— I asked, you know, why am I here? And they said, well, there's a risk of heart attack. You know, if you, you can't breathe and know, the heart's trying to, you know, it's panicking. It can't, you know, trying to get oxygen. There's no oxygen getting to it. And it has an attack. He goes into— the doctor said I was going into, and I quote them, into an arrest. It was like a lung arrest, a lung attack. And then what happens immediately after that is actually a heart attack because the the heart can't function without the lungs, right? So, so that's where I've been the last week and a half. I've been in hospital. Um, this first 40 hours was touch and go. My vital signs improved significantly actually within, um, you know, I think the third and fourth day, and I just got stronger and stronger. And, um, well, I'm not out of the woods. And I did get some messages from some people who, uh, were, you know, some of the members who heard about my condition. And I had— which is wonderful, actually— they put my name on the temple. They knew I don't go, and they asked me, is it okay if we put your name on the temple? And I see that, Jim. I don't believe in the endowment, the search, the mechanics, if you like, of the endowment, you know, the physical mechanics of all those symbols, all those rites and of different rituals in there. But behind that, with these people, of course, it's the same, I think, uh, you know, with, with everyone who puts names on a, you know, on the temple or the altar there. It's an act of love and kindness, and, and I see that and I recognize that. And it, it is an act of faith. It's that, it's the, you know, the Mormon version of, of demonstrating faith.

Well, were these people people that have been in touch with you since you've left, or are they some people that you hadn't heard from in a long time?

Both, both. Interesting. That's a great question. So there were people who hadn't reached out, who, um, you know, I spoke to since I left the church, who had reached out, which is nice. And I was deeply grateful. It was kind, it was extraordinary act of love and faith on their part and, uh, and sincerity. And I was grateful that my name was on, um, a few of the temples around the world, which is— I think that's the The last time I was in a temple was, um, on a— in a bag, name on a piece of paper in a bag on the altar recently. But I, but I, uh, I, you know, that does not take away at all, um, uh, the fact that these people did that because they loved me and were very, you know, prayerful and worried about me. And so, uh, so I mean, that's where I've been, that's what I've been doing. And so, I was grateful to get out of hospital because the food absolutely sucks. And I'm not joking. I did not eat the food. My wife and my family, of course, were there and we had some friends visit and they, they brought a little bit of human food, you know, to survive on. And the nurses there at the hospital were extraordinary. The doctors were just amazing. So, that's where I've been. That's been my life the last week and a half.

What's to say? Well, I appreciate you sharing that. I mean, that's, you know, health scares and health. I have never had an experience that's comparable to that. I have never been in an experience where I personally, knock on wood, where I personally have, have felt at risk, or certainly not anywhere I've had anything that could be described as a near-death experience. The most time I spent in the hospital was when my daughter was injured, and I slept on the couch while she was— she had a spinal cord injury and she was being rehabilitated, and, and I, and I slept on the couch and I ate the hospital food and it was good. So I, maybe that's the difference. Maybe Canadian food is, but is that the reason Americans don't have universal healthcare? Is our food in the hospital is too good? Is that the—

That's probably the only reason. Absolutely.

That's, that's the only reason.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

So it was, it was, I was grateful for the help. It was good to, good to get out. I want to say this, Jim Bennett, if I may. I'm having this conversation on this day here and I still have a sense of foreboding, a sense of fear. I'm still scared even now. I might not sound it, but I am inside this. You know, I'm still not outwards by any means. Um, I'm hopeful, uh, the prognosis looks good. But my fear— and I want to be clear about this— my fear is not of dying. A fear is the impact it has on my family, because I, I saw for the first time in the most extraordinary way, uh, the impact, um, that my absence would have on my family and close loved ones in a way that I didn't understand or appreciate before. Um, I remind, remind myself of my favorite movie, actually, A Wonderful Life. Love that movie. We try to watch each year, try to watch it here, but the kids, the kids are not interested. I think it's boring, right? I watched that and I just, I love that movie. And he is, you know, um, uh, what's his name? Bedford Falls, Jimmy Stewart. Jimmy Stewart, can't remember the characters.

George Bailey.

George Bailey, my gosh. I think we, many of us know that, love that movie. Uh, what a great movie that is. And, and he gets the opportunities to see what his life is like, or the life of his family and friends what that looks like without him in their life and, um, doesn't appreciate, uh, significance or the impact that he's had on their lives. Well, I saw that in very stark ways this last week. I didn't really understand or appreciate the, um, the positive impact that I have on my family and, and some friends and, uh, in particular my son, um, who it really affected him. Yeah, we're very close to my family and, and, uh, have a special bond with, uh, with each of them. And my youngest, uh, was, um, I wouldn't say traumatized by the experiences, but it was very upset and, uh, emotional in a way that I've not seen before. And he's just not stopped hugging me or telling me how much he loves me. She's trying to come out of hospital. So, you know, we sometimes take for granted, I think, the impact that a loss of ourselves can have on our family. And we perhaps don't see the significance, a role that we play in the lives of our family members and our friends. Maybe we don't see that until, you know, until something happens. Um, so I, I, for me, that was very, um, striking and very significant and, uh, very, um, significant learning experience for me to be able to see that in the, uh, in the lives, in the words, in the actions of my, uh, my family. I hope you never experience this, um, but, um, I, I hope my message brings I think this, as I thought about this, Jim, I thought, well, what is the value of sharing this? I thought, well, no, there is some value because, you know, live healthily. You know, we all know that, right? Live right, exercise, eat right. You probably get fed up hearing that all the time, but it's important. You know, go for regular tests and checkups, et cetera. In my examinations, by the way, in the test, they tried to identify source of the clot. You know, where did the clot come from, right? Why did it occur? You know, what happened? Why did it occur? Could it happen again? In my case, it came from an injury I had on my lower left leg many months ago. We think that soft tissue injury caused some damage to some internal tissue there. We think, that's what we think. In fact, we're pretty sure that's what happened. And it's quite common actually to get a clot from an injury on your leg, right?. And in my case, the clot kind of broke off and it went up into my lungs. But they, what they do, they do a process of deduction where they take you for all these tests and they also take you for cancer tests. So I had this extensive second CT scan for cancer, 'cause cancer could be a factor in, you know, how clots occur. There's other reasons, but that's one of them. And they have to eliminate you know, the causality of the clot. And they come down to, in my case, it was, you know, by deduction, it was my injury on the lower left leg. They had that assumption that it was. But, and so the test, by the way, revealed I am cancer-free. I have no traces of cancer.

Oh, good.

So, and that's official. So again, that's, you know, when we get to our age, you're supposed to go, I go back to what I was saying. I thought, you know, what's the value of these messages? Or, you know, as a man or an adult, just go get your— you know, when you reach your 50s, and you and I are pushing 60, you know, I'm a little bit older than you.

Speak for yourself, I'm still a young pup.

You're a young pup, you're a young pup. I think you want 2 or 3 years. 2 or 3 years, yeah. 2 or 3. But when you get our age, you know, go for a regular checkup, right? Go get your heart tested, go get your lungs tested, go some blood work, um, you know, go do a test for prostate cancer. I've come up clear, which is, which is wonderful. That's wonderful to know. You know, cancer affects so many people, but go and get regular checks, especially at our age, right? Eat well, live well, obviously exercise. If something happens, and this is something that my wife asked me to highlight on this podcast, she said that if this had happened to her, she would not have listened to her body and she would probably be dead because, uh, my wife is, you know, tough, strong, deal with almost anything and takes the, you know, uh, you know, the tougher stance, if you like, uh, in terms of these kind of issues. And she said to me repeatedly, um, how extraordinary it is that I— in fact, she said to me, uh, Jim Bennett Bennett, and I made a note here, um, um, she said that, uh, when I called her, um, when I was on the way to the hospital, uh, or just before I went to the hospital, so I called her just before I went to the hospital before I drove myself to hospital, he said, just, you know, go in and just lie down. You'll, you'll be, you'll be okay. Uh, which is now says to me, knowing how serious it was and researching it, that she's grateful that I, quote, listened to my own body, end quote. And actually it made the decision to, you know, go to the hospital. Yes, I should have called 911. I was a fool not to, but it, you know, at least I, I, um, Yeah, I took myself there. So, you know, if you experience pain or anything you're not sure, it's always best to be on the safe side. Listen to your body, um, go get checked, go get tested, and, um, you know, just err on the cautious side. So the messages are, you know, there's— I said earlier, near-death experiences, for me, was my definition, my experience was, was it physical? Yes. Emotional, I thought I was a goner. Spiritual, I had no fear on that. It was quite a— I actually wasn't surprised. That's something else that you asked me. You asked me a question on this, but if you asked me, you know, was I surprised to have this experience, or was I surprised when I was having that experience? No, it was normal. It's not weird to say that. It was completely non-extraordinary and normal as it was extraordinary. And that's a strange thing to say. What a— for, um, oxymoron. Is that the right word?

Yeah. Well, so, so what does this do to your spirituality going forward? I mean, I, I— everything I've read about near-death experiences, I mean, people, they talk about they're a changed person. Their perspective on life changed. And so, and the fear of death. I mean, you talk about the fear or the concern, the love really, that you have for your family and your friends, and you're scared of what your absence would mean. But I've read a lot of people talking about near-death experiences who say it completely removes the fear of death, the fear of that there's nothing beyond this life, because you kind of have an assurance that there is. Is that where you are?

No, no, it's not. For me, from the experiences I've had, you know, one of the podcasts we talked about, my brother Paul, who passed away, I go into quite a bit of, well, some detail. And that was a difficult podcast for me, but a necessary one and quite emotional. It was difficult to share that, but I felt it was— it would do more good, you know, to help others. But I've had a number of experiences during my life, you know, in the church and out the church that have confirmed— not many experiences, I've had some which have confirmed beyond any doubt that there's— there is definitely something after this life. And I actually, you know, people stand up and bear the testimony, And we complain sometimes outside the church, or people are against the church, or you get these snide comments from some people that, you know, how can you stand up and say you know, you know something, right? You don't know, right? You're standing up and you're saying you know that God lives, or you know this and this and this. You don't really know. You should say you believe, right? I don't, I mean, that may or not be the case with depending on the individual, but if I, you know, when I, if I stood up. And I said, I knew, I'm not bothered what people think about that. They can, you know, agree or believe it or not. But I know, I know that there is a life after this, after this life. There is a power, a power beyond, you know, our power, power so greater than we are that exists, that is very real. And an energy force of love. I didn't see God or Jesus Christ, nothing like that. Um, I don't mean to sound disrespectful. I didn't see Jesus or God or anyone like that. Um, yeah, I wanna show reverence cuz I do believe in a God, in a being. I, I don't know all the details of what that look like. I don't think that's the Mormon God per se, but a being or beings, um, that have this power, this energy, this love that I me, it's the universe. I believe that. Um, and I know, I'll go further and I'll say I know that, that is real cuz I've experienced it, uh, several times. But this experience, this last experience did not teach me any more now than I knew before in terms of life after life or life after death. And didn't teach me any more in terms of, um, knowing what I already knew. It gave me, well, in terms of the spiritual side I'm talking about, Uh, the visual side was distinctly different, so that was a whole new experience. The fear of death, that's not changed whatsoever. You know, you go, you could be questioned about your perspective. Has my perspective changed? Well, if what I experienced was a spiritual or near-death experience in spiritual terms, then it's something that is just glorious and wonderful. Is it my brain firing, you know, um, chemicals?, right at the last moment, or on the— again, I use the word brink of death, you know, I was a few minutes away. I, I don't believe I died, by the way. I want to be clear, I do not believe I actually died. Um, I, I know I didn't die. Um, you know, my, my heart didn't stop. There's no evidence in the hospital my heart stopped. My heart's in— my heart's survived pretty well, actually. It came under intense pressure, but I came out of it pretty well physically. I saw my heart on a monitor and it looks It looks pretty good, right? But I didn't die. I know I didn't die, but it was near death, or it was a glimpse into whatever that next experience is. It's like looking through a, um, uh, like a, like a curtain, if you like, just a transparent curtain where you can just— if you get closer and your face just, um, passes through but just your face or your body rather, and you just stood there right at the veil, at the veil, glimpsing in through it. Part of your body's through it and you have a glimpse, just a moment, uh, glimpse of what that looks like, what the eternal looks like. I believe that that's the best way I can describe it at this time. I, how I articulate it. You know, as I think about it further, it might change, or I might find better words to describe it. That's the best I can— best words I can use right now to describe that. But I didn't die. I haven't come back from the dead. Um, what was it? Chemicals firing in my brain at the time? Uh, I don't believe that. Um, am I afraid of death? I, I, I wasn't afraid of death before the experience. I saw things. You could argue, well, you thought you saw things. It could be your imagination, right? I have no way of proving that. All I remember is that I, you know, what I saw and how I felt at the time. My perspective has changed, specifically in the area I was talking about before where the impact that my absence would have on my family and some friends would be significant in a way that I never saw or understood before. That, that's new, a new perspective.

Did you have that perspective during the experience? I mean, was that part of the— that's something that, that sort of comes since the experience?

Since the experience, yeah. At the time, yeah, great question. At the time, I didn't think about my family in the experience. I could I could see shapes of people that I, I couldn't recognize. It was the most—

family was there. Your mother was there. Paul was there.

Yeah, but only through their voices that I recognized. I couldn't— it was so far off. I could see the shapes, human form, but I couldn't see the detail at all. It was too far off. And I tried to approach them and I just couldn't. It was, you know, some people have near-death experiences, they go right into it.

Right?

They, they're able to move forward. They're able to talk to people close up and get the detail and have conversations and look around them. And I mean, those experiences, I know they're not all real. I know that sometimes people may, I don't know, going to have their own they might exaggerate. You know, I think people out there that would or might exaggerate, so maybe not as accurate or truthful on these experiences. Others who are genuine and sincere, it's hard to know the difference sometimes. But, you know, those— some of those experiences are very close up and very detailed. And they go into quite a bit of detail. Mine wasn't like that. Mine was quick. It was fleeting. It was a glimpse. It was, um, a moment only.

Well, uh, in one of your messages, you described that sort of— there was kind of out of time. I mean, like, oh my goodness, your sense of time was distorted. You didn't know if it was an instant or if it was a month.

Yes. Yes, that's a great, great point. Yeah, thank you for bringing that up because I think I messaged you on that. So as I've thought about this some more, and so there's two parts to this. I believe that I was lying on my back physically on the grass at the side of the path for, oh, I don't know, 10 seconds, I don't know, 20 seconds. Maybe 10 seconds, you know, trying to— I think maybe as I lie down and, and not moving and my body was able to recover. I mean, I'm guessing this is what happened. As I'm lying down there flat and passed out and my breathing kind of improves. Obviously I didn't die. I suspect, I think rather that probably was just I don't know, but maybe a few seconds or 10 seconds. But the experience on the other side was longer. It wasn't a month, nothing like that. It wasn't that. It was, it was maybe a couple of minutes, if that, maybe a minute, 2 minutes. But the thing I came, came back with was the time difference was that it seemed like there was quite a few things happening, albeit it was in a very short frame timeframe, um, compared to what was happening on this side, if that makes sense. Um, so things were happening. It seemed like I was there for longer, but in reality I wasn't. And I know that I wasn't because I think when I came to, I, you know, I could remember falling onto the grass and then passing out. And then I woke up lying on my back, and I don't know, but I, I mean, I don't know, I think it was probably— I'm guessing here, maybe, I don't know, probably 10 seconds like that, or a few seconds like that. But the experience on the other side was quite a bit longer. Um, Not a month, nothing like that, obviously, but, um, nowhere near, obviously. But we're talking just maybe a few minutes. It, but very different, you know, it was, um, very two very different, um, time dimensions. Odd. I know it sounds that I'm, no, I'm struggling, I'm struggling to, I'm struggling to explain it, but it was very different. Time there, having that experience, uh, ran differently than here.

Okay, well, uh, we'll let that— we're, we're coming up on the hour here. So in terms of time, I just want to say how grateful I am that you're back, how grateful I am. I know you say you're not out of the woods, and we'll continue to pray for you on this end. And I'm thrilled to hear that you have loved ones that care enough about you to put your name on the temple roll, even if you don't believe in the temple anymore.

It's—

you recognize that as an act of love. And I think there are a lot of people who love you and would very much miss you if you were gone. And I appreciate your courage and your willingness to share this with everybody.

So I would— if I could, Jim, I want to extend my love and gratitude to you, uh, for your prayers. And I want to thank you for that wonderful gift that you and your lovely wife sent today. Arrived today.

Oh yeah, good.

It came today and it was just wonderful and I was very grateful.

Well, it was a lot cheaper than it looked because they took the booze out of it. There was meat.

Yeah, I'm a cheap date.

I don't drink, but Canadian dollars, which is like You know, it's not real money down here.

I know. I, I was just grateful that you spent the $20 Canadian putting that little, uh, food parcel together. I really appreciate that. So, uh, no, it meant, uh, it meant the world to me, and it just, um, brought a tear to my eye. So thank you for your prayers, and to your lovely wife, for your family, and, uh, again, to all those who've, uh, been, uh, you know, been praying for me. I, um, I'm still trying to make sense of it. And, you know, I think I'm through the, you know, the hard bit. And, you know, I also loved your last podcast. I think it was my favorite, and I wasn't in it, so that's fun.

Oh, well, glad I could lift your spirits, but I think you did a lot of spirits here.

So you made, you made me laugh, so thank you.

Well, thank you, and We'll leave that to be the last word, and thank you all for listening. We hope to see you next time on Inside Out. Thank you, Ian, and welcome back.

Thank you, Jim Bennett.