Ian's Story: Part III - The Temple and the Beginning of the Mission

Welcome to another episode of Inside Out. My name is Jim Bennett, and we've been going through Ian Wilkes' conversion story. And when we last left Ian, he had just gone through the temple, and we did not tell you what his reaction was, but we will tell you right now.

Went through the temple. That was a, that was an experience as well for me that was quite— It wasn't a positive experience.— No, it was a negative experience. So before you go on a mission, you go through the temple to do your endowments, and you go through the Washington anointings, right? So look where I came from, my background. This is completely new to me. And by the way, they send you on these Before you go on a mission, you attend these temple preparation classes.

That don't prepare you for anything.

They don't, they don't. And I taught those and I've actually contributed as a veil worker and a bishop, member of the stake presidency that I've been, et cetera, over the years. And I had a conversation with Elder Oaks on this, which we might get into later, but contributed to you know, how effective those temple preparation classes are. And so I attended them as a young man and, you know, I didn't know if they prepared me or not. I mean, what do I know, right? So for me it was, yeah, it sounds great, what about this, et cetera. But they never told me about the Washington's anointings, which frightened me to death by the way. And they never prepared me for the pre-1990 temple endowment.

Right. With penalties.

With penalties that were up. So I went to the temple. This is just 2 months before my mission. And I had a notice in the company down south in Sheffield who were absolutely furious with me, by the way, that I'd been with for 2 years and invested all this time and money. We were rocking it on the sales, et cetera, the industrial sales side, et cetera, doing really, really well. And there I was, just, you know, submitting my resignation on something they thought was absolutely weird. They thought I was the most strangest, bizarre individual. What are you doing for 2 years of your life? They were so mad they fired me on the spot.

Really?

Yeah, I was fired on the spot. And I, I, I just emptied my office, took the keys back. They were so furious that I'd resigned and also resigned for something they thought was absolutely weird, um, going on this 2-year mission. They knew about the church and that I went to church, but they didn't know the details. Um, you know, I didn't share too much of the details about the church because they weren't interested. And they— I'd mentioned that at some point I'd like to go on a mission, and they said, oh, what's that? And they may have forgotten, but when it actually happened, uh, it, it— they took it pretty bad. Um, I, I had to catch a bus I was thrown out again, Jim. I was, I've been fired from my home and then fired from my office. And there I was walking with a plastic bag again, no dog this time, but walking with a plastic bag to the bus stop near where I used to work and catch a bus back to where I lived. Fired on the spot in a very, very blunt fashion. And I look back and I can understand now why they you know, why they, uh, they did what they did. And by the way, when I came back up the mission, I had the audacity and the cheek to call back my old boss who was angry with me to ask for my old job. He told me to, uh, I won't swear, but to eff off. And I said, well, okay, fine, uh, Archie, but I'm interested in getting back into the industry. He'd been out of it 2 years. What can you do? You know nothing, you've lost the knowledge, etc. I'm a pretty good learner. And he said, if you get in, you won't be able to compete. You've lost all the con— Anyway, long story short, I ignored that advice. Just like Miss Priest years ago at school, I ignored the advice. I'm very good at ignoring bad advice when I recognize it. So I ignored his advice, set up a company, and bought in.

You have a son named Archie. When you first met Jim Murphy, I thought you had named it after this guy because he was a mentor.

He was. He was, he became a mentor and I ended up buying his company. We ended up having a really good relationship later, you know, the business guy. After he told me to fuck off and we did some joint deals together, et cetera, some joint ventures and success, et cetera. We did a few of those, still competitors, but had a pretty grown up business., you know, business relationship. And my Archie is not named after him, but I became aware of the name Archie from my old boss who told me to fuck off. Interesting. Yeah. So, anyway, so, and I set up a company and I bought a few of the companies and grew that and that became, you know, became quite successful. And so, anyway, I went to the temple and I, Thought the temple preparation class prepared me. It didn't. I went to the— this is '86, '86, so pre-1990. And I went to what they call Washington Anointings. And this old man, I was— how much detail do you want to go into?

Well, I feel like there are certain things in the temple that you promise not to discuss. Okay, so I would rather not discuss those. Okay, but I think everything else— I, I, I think it's kind of ridiculous how reticent we are to talk about the temple. And in fact, the church is coming around on that. The church has released videos where they show you pictures of temple clothing, where they show you pictures of garments, where they describe in, in some detail what the endowment ceremony is. And all of those things were completely taboo when I went through the temple. I went through not too long after you, and I think we had a similar experience. But I remember going through the washings and anointings, and no one had told me about them. And I remember saying to my father, "All right, so is this what I put on my garments?" "No." "Oh, is this what I put on my temple clothes?" "No." Oh. Well, what do I wear? And he hands me the shield, which is the sort of, as you know, is this big, huge white poncho, but you're completely naked underneath it. And it's, it's open on the sides. So you're wandering around completely naked and feeling very exposed. I mean, that was my experience and I assume it was somewhat similar to yours.

Very similar. So, um, Very similar. So I, you know, this was Washington anointing, which happens before the endowment. I'm wearing this, what did you call it, poncho?

Yeah, they called it a shield. My father pointed out that in the days of Brigham Young, they didn't bother with the shield, that they used to just do them completely naked. It wasn't until 2005 that they allowed you to stay clothed. Wow.

Right. Okay. So there I was in this sheet with holes in, uh, it's like a white sheet, uh, completely naked. This old man, um, starts to come into this, this area, this, this cubicle type place, uh, in the temple in, in London. It's a London temple. And introduced himself and said he has the priesthood authority to perform motions, anointings, and starts to anoint me and starts to touch certain parts of my body near my loins. That's the word they use, which made me extremely uncomfortable. And I grabbed his hand, this old man's hand. This old man must have been in his 80s. And uh, I remember he had really bad breath. He, you know, you know, when you look back at events in your life, you, you, you might see something or hear something or smell something. Smells, yeah, you know, with memory. He had bad breath.

Smells are very evocative.

Yeah, very evocative. Yeah. And he had bad breath, and he was, um, he— and I grabbed his hand, and I was stronger than him, and I moved his hand away from my loins. And I said, "I'm uncomfortable." And he said, "Well, it's a necessary part of the process." And I said, "Well, look, just, you know, just keep it as quick and, you know, away from—" The whole thing was a shock. I had no idea what was going on. The temple prep class didn't even reference this whatsoever. You have to, well, you understand, you've been through this. You've got this old guy I'm in the sheet naked underneath. This guy is touching parts, areas, you know, nothing not too private, but certain parts of your body that are quite private. Complete stranger in a place you've never been before, speaking words that you've never heard before, pronouncing things and pronouncing that, you know, the whole thing was bizarre, unusual, just surreal. It was like a dream or nightmare. And so that was a pretty negative experience for me. I felt uncomfortable. I felt quite vulnerable. And there's a reason for that. And so I got through that and then we went into the endowments. And back then, the temple has been revamped since '86. About them in the Bible.

There have been some significant revamps. So in '90, they got rid of the penalties and a few other things that are sort of Masonic holdovers. The Five Points of Fellowship disappeared. Right. But the penalties were really the biggest change. But more recently, this was just, I think, 3 years ago, just before COVID or maybe a year before COVID um, they, they made some more changes that, that involve, uh, putting men and women on more of an equal footing, um, giving Eve more to say in the ceremony. Although I think that's just kind of window dressing to some degree. But, but, uh, those I think, at least in my experience, are the two most They also streamlined it. You only change clothes once in the new version. I don't know if you've been through since they've done the new one.

No, no, I'm talking about— I'm not just talking about the change in the endowment practice. I was also talking about the physical changes in the London Temple. Oh yeah, they have. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They had balcony, a big balcony all the way around everywhere. So you had all these hundreds of people on the balcony and then like a stage, hundreds of people here. And everybody I could see, I knew, you know, in the stake and ward, and they always go through the endowment. But just going back to your last two points there, because I was talking about the physical revamping of the London Temple.

Oh, okay.

I've never been to that temple. Yeah, because that back then, before it was revamped or refurbished, the whole layout added to the trauma for me. It was a very cultish experience in many ways as I look back, and very uncomfortable experience going through the, going back to your point there, the old or the pre-1990 endowment where you had to get all the penalties and you had to simulate certain actions should you reveal certain things, certain things would happen to you. I think that's probably the best way we could describe that. That were for me absolutely frightening.. But when I looked up and could see all these people at the balcony, many of whom I knew very well, the bishop, my friends there who were coming there for the first time for themselves or me, et cetera. And the person next to me said, how do you feel? I said, I feel very uncomfortable. And they said to me, look, you know, if you doubt this, just look up and would all these people that you know, that you trust and know so well, I remember this very clearly, Jim, would they be doing something that wasn't right?. And I remember, you know, that's interesting rationale to, you know, behind that thought process. And I remember thinking, no, they wouldn't. They're very smart people. They wouldn't do this if it was strange. Nevertheless, it felt very, very disturbing, very uncomfortable to me. And so the physical layout of the temple and the confinement, you know, for the, for the, that endowment or that version of the endowment was very scary, very disturbing, very uncomfortable. And then the confinement, the small space confinement of the complete stranger who performed the washings and anointings was, was equally disturbing. So it was a very negative experience for me physically, spiritually, you know, emotionally. And I felt quite, quite vulnerable actually, which was a shock because Everything up until that point, Jim Bennett, with the church, right from when the missionaries were teaching right through to that point, had been positive. And that's an important point. So, you know, look at my history, right, with all of that terrible, awful experience that me and many others went through at that time. And others go through far worse, of course, than that. And then a seamless, almost endless positive experience on every event, essentially, in the church. And then at this point, I'm having this very, very disturbing, uncomfortable, very negative experience where I feel my body, my emotions, my raw emotions are telling me that there's something not right about this. Something doesn't feel right about this. Yet I've been told that, you know, give it time, you'll feel right. All these people who know you so well, they can't be wrong.. But I felt very confused and very mixed up when I left that temple, the temple on that day to do my first endowment there. Came back on the bus, was fairly quiet. People noticed that and came to talk to me. And the advice I got from the bishop said, Ian, you've got another 2 months before you go on a mission. Go back for a week. You're not working now. You got fired, right? Thank you for reminding me. And so go back to the temple and go through for a week. And go through everything. And that's what I did, Jim. I went back and I went to the accommodation and I went through early morning. And by the end of the week, I felt better, a lot better. But it was like I was forcing myself to accept it. As I look back, you know, on some of the experiences after I joined the church and think about how I thought and felt and why I thought the way I didn't feel the way I did, I remember at times now, if I'm honest with myself, making myself accept stuff, right? Because, because for me, different to many others, the alternative was going back, or so I thought, to that awful, awful experience. So anything, even if it was problematic or confusing or disturbing, was not nothing like, you know, compared to what I was growing up with. And so, and there were things, the members approached and said, look, you don't know the answers right now, keep going to the temple, it will all be, you'll feel better. And although I felt a bit better after that week session, I never, even years after, being a veil worker, going to the temple, being involved in the temple, not a sealer, but being a temple worker, et cetera, and training people on the veil, I still struggled with feelings that wouldn't leave me, wouldn't go away, wouldn't disappear. Doubt. Never sat right with you. Never sat right. There was something not quite right about that. So I mean, the video I found acceptable until Satan came into it in that first version where he confronts the Catholic priest, if you remember that.

I think he's more of a Protestant. I mean, he's a Protestant, isn't he? Yeah. But remember you were on, and they changed this in 1990. It used to be that Satan talked about buying up armies and navies and bishops and priests. And now it's false priests who oppress, right? Is that right? Change the language. But my parents actually described to me the endowment used to be— I mean, when it was first created, it was— it took all day. It was— and at one point, the priest or the preacher comes out and leads the congregation in a hymn. And my father remembered the hymn It wasn't a Mormon hymn, it was a Protestant hymn. And then the priest launches into this big thing about, do you believe in a God who sits at the top of a topless throne, whose area is everywhere and his circumference is nowhere? And I mean, just this hardcore slam on the Christian world outside of the church. Is what it was intended to be, and that's now been entirely removed. But even the version you went through and that I went through that very first time was toned down from the original version.

Yeah, I didn't know some of the information that you shared there with your father's experience, but the version that you and I went through, I remember this Catholic or Protestant priest showing up. And I think my mum would have clapped her hands at that, but got very angry when he was— she would have been very upset, you know, after the priest was dismissed in the way that he was. Yeah. My mum would have been—

A priest that demands that Satan pay him money? Absolutely. And works for Satan, he's Satan's guy? Yes, yes. It's really, I think, somewhat offensive.

It is offensive, and, you know, there's money involved, et cetera. There's also a reference to the— The trilogy, you believe in God, Trinity, was that, I say trilogy, Trinity, yes. The trinity, you know, God, one God, three spirits, all-powering, all-knowing, everywhere but nowhere. I remember that. And so that, the first part of the video was cool because I used to fancy Eve. She was, I wasn't the only one.

If you went through Howie, some of the Eves were better looking than other Eves.

This one, and I wasn't alone in my interest in Eve, uh, she, she looked pretty, pretty good. Um, and, uh, and then the video went kind of not the direction I would have taken it. It went quite scary with Satan and the priest and, and all this other stuff that was going on, and it went very, uh, cultish is the only way I can describe it. Very You know, the handshakes, the, you know, the clothing, the clothing, the hats.

No one's been able to explain to me the symbolism behind why we have to wear a hat that looks like a baker's hat. It just looks weird.

I asked somebody, a mission president in the temple or temple president at the time, years after, and he was saying that it was the dress. So the attire was revealed by revelation, which is not in the Doctrine and Covenants now, that, that in the church archives, very specific, um, uh, information was revealed to the Prophet, which is not in the Doctrine and Covenants now, or not— by the way, I have heard from various reliable sources that there's quite a bit of other additional Doctrine and Covenants material which has not been released, and that this revelation on the attire, the whole revelation that Joseph Smith learned from the Freemasons at the time and developed it and changed things and the dress and the Freemasonry, which is very much in the neighborhood I was growing up in, by the way, and very much all over Scotland. As you are well aware, there's a lot of Freemasonry history across the UK and elsewhere around the world and being somewhat familiar with that in my community. And by the way, the Num Minors, the miners, the strikers, they wear an orange sash. Oh, in the marching? Yeah. And if you look at the symbols on the sash, there's some, if I've not got this wrong, there is some relationship with Freemasonry and this— The square and compass? Square and compass, but also this relationship with this, like a fraternity. It's like the miners' fraternity, right? Right. And they march with their staffs down the streets for the right to keep the mine open. They've got these orange sashes on or other types of sashes that they're wearing, etc. There's some symbolism there. So this Freemason, this symbolism, this fraternity goes back to the UK and beyond, way, way, way back. And when Joseph Smith came into contact with Freemasonry and versions of it, etc., from, you know, Presbyterians, from Protestant faith, etc., Catholicism, etc., developed a version for the church. And this attire, this clothing that is worn in the temple is all received by revelation to Joseph Smith, which is not in the main canon of the church material, but, but it does exist apparently, I'm told, in the church archives and very detailed, very specific about the hat, why it's shaped the way it is, the apron, the— all the clothing, every— and even going back to an earlier version where other things were, were worn, other symbols were on the sash. I don't know if you've heard anything along the same lines where other symbols appeared on the apron long before you and I went through the temple. So anyway, there I was going through the temple. What I was wearing was odd. The washings and anointings were just strange. This threat of these penalties was just extraordinary. My mission papers were in. I was being called to Scotland. I came home, went back to the temple for a week, et cetera, et cetera. Went through for the whole week and came to some arrangement emotionally that it is what it is. I don't understand it. I don't feel comfortable about it, but it is what it is. And then the good news is, you know, the mission is that you get a break from going to the temple for 2 years. So for me, that was a— I don't know how the people felt about it, but for me, that was a relief that I didn't have the pressure to go to the temple I was on a mission. And so, you know, after the MTC, got flown up to Edinburgh. This was January 29th, 1987. The two APs picked me up, picked us up, you know, 8, 9, 10 of us, picked us up. And so they drove us from the airport. I'd been to Edinburgh before, by the way, on business, so it wasn't a complete strange place to me. But for the Americans that were there, and I was the only Brit, I believe, to Scotland. 9 other American guys that were out with me. El Chini was one, um, Elder Meacham was another one, um, I'm trying to remember the other guys that came out with me at the time. Elder Hiscock, uh, you and I know very well, was another one.

God bless his soul, he's passed away.

Yes, passed away. I love that man. He's a— we all love Chris Hiscock. He was an amazing guy. And so, uh, the AP picked us up, uh, drove through Prince Street. They did— they didn't have to. They went through Edinburgh deliberately, the cobbled streets of that. Yeah, the Royal Mile. The missionaries were like, oh my God, this is extraordinary. They've never been to Europe in their life, right? Going through Edinburgh, uh, I could see the faces were like lit up. This is the most amazing, uh, experience for them. And we were driven to the mission home the back way. I know those roads pretty well. Um, you know, later in my life I moved to Scotland, moved to Edinburgh, you know, where I was a bishop there. And so we went to the mission home and we were greeted by President Dunn. President Dunn. And he was— George A. Dunn, yeah, brother of Lawrence C. Dunn. And he was a— immediately, as soon as he spoke, he boomed. He was like a sergeant major. He owned it. He lived— he was from Tuwela. Tuwela? Tuwela? Tuwela? Yeah. But he owned a printing company, a very successful printing company, and had done that all of his life. And he'd come out on a mission there with his wife, and he'd been out maybe, oh, maybe 2 and a half years. He only had 6 months left. So, you know, his replacement happened in July '87. So this is January, winter, it's cold. And came into the mission home, and he brought his stuff in and put that in that front office there. I came in and was then asked to sit around the table. There's a big table there. And we sat around the table. The president came in and basically gave us an hour lecture on why we didn't have testimonies. And I'm thinking, you know, my background's very different to everyone else's here, I suspected, right? And I thought I had a testimony, but apparently I didn't. And, you know, I would gain a testimony by the end of it. And so he kind of spoke very loudly in a very military fashion, booming and everything, and kind of shouted, 'Listen, you're not going to testify now.' And I spoke up and I said, 'Prisoner, I do believe I have a testimony.' 'No, you don't. What's your name?' 'Elder Wilkes.' You don't have a testimony till you've been here for 2 years. I said, okay. But it was, it was very confrontational, very blunt, very sergeant major, and quite prickly, quite prickly character. I only learned, by the way, Jim Bennett, a few weeks later, his son was instrumental in me joining the church. Oh, really? Yep. So his son was Paul Dunn, served in the Leeds Mission, which is where I joined the church.

No relationship to Paul Dunn, the General Authority, the disgraced General Authority? No. Okay.

I don't know. No, this is Paul Dunn, the son of Joe Dunn. I don't— I'm saying no, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe. I don't know. And so Paul had interviewed me for my baptism. He'd also sat, uh, this is what, 3 years, I don't know, 5 years before, right? So 4 or 5 years before I met his dad, Joldan, uh, he'd sat in on the last discussion before my baptism. And he'd also interviewed me, the senior zone leader in the mission at that time, for my, um, you know, becoming baptized, and was instrumental apparently in getting my mom's signature or being part of that thing. And I didn't know— yeah, I didn't know until weeks into the mission that Joe— that Paul— that Joe was the father of Paul Dunn, right? And so that came out. And, um, and so, uh, he was, um, uh, that didn't make any difference. Not that I expected it to in terms of how he spoke to me, but he spoke to us pretty rough, frankly. And all the missions there are fairly quiet. I think they felt the joy in the military. And I remember we had this picture taken, you know, as soon as you— within hours, your family were informed, or minutes, your family were informed that you'd arrived safely in the mission. And then the day after, you stayed overnight because of jet lag, and you have to get up early, very early. I had no jet lag, so I was okay, but the guys were struggling with that. And the next day, early in the morning, you had your photograph taken outside the mission home, as you're well aware of. And I remember Elder Hiscock was just before me, and he had his hat on, and he he, he was losing his hair, um, and I remember President Dunn grabbed his hat, and I felt really bad for, for Chris, grabbed his hat and just ripped it off and said, do not— don't know why you're wearing that, get that off, don't wear that again. And, and Chris's face, although he's got— his face was just absolute dismay and, and just, um, like shock and, and like, oh my gosh, this is just not, not what I expected. He looked pretty upset. He was upset that he had his cap ripped off his head, et cetera. And just spoken to like, as he told me later, like a bit of a dog, actually. So very, very within minutes we knew that we were dealing with a serious figure in President Dunn. And I think President Dunn, and I don't mind him hearing this, he knows, I think he knows what I think about this, but he didn't have a, as good a relationship with the Scottish Saints as he could have. Um, yeah, so alive, he's still alive. Yeah. And so President Dunn, Joe Dunn, he is still alive. Yes, his first wife passed away, he's remarried. And President Dunn, if you're hearing this, uh, you know, you're a great mission president, um, but a bit too prickly, I think, for, uh, for some of us at that time. But, um, anyway, Uh, very serious, very strict on the rules, which is fine, and, uh, very regimental, um, and, uh, again, very military work.

I, I mean, the job— I got there right after, or just a few months after he had left. Yeah. And sort of the Dunnites that were still around told stories about working, what, 80-hour weeks, 90-hour weeks, giving up Eid day all that kind of stuff.

I was part of that. So I got with, uh, I was sent to Dumfries. Um, this is, uh, February, February '87, right? Um, I sent it in freeze, and I was with Elder Rockwood. El Rockwood from Denver, um, had a reputation for working his companions. He was a blue-eyed boy of the, the donites of the donites. He was the one pushing for working more hours. He was the one pushing to work P-days. He was the one pushing to proselyte while your clothes are being washed. Go out for an hour and go do some jeet kune. He was President Dunn's number one or number two favorite missionary. Had a reputation for running his companions into the ground. Okay. He'd had some physical and emotional issues as a result of that, some psychological issues, was reinfused and sent back into the— he didn't go home, but he was, I think he was sick for a couple of weeks for emotional reasons because he didn't— it reminds me of Joseph Smith, you know, that teaching, I think it was about you know, taking the string off the bow. You know, we, you know, we keep the, the bow and the string on the bow, and, and, and yeah, if we keep, if we keep it on, it loses its tenacity. And so sometimes we have to undo the string and kind of relax and chill, uh, just to, you know, uh, recover and just to rehabilitate and, and, and just kind of recharge your batteries. Well, Rockwood was not known for that. And so I got put with him in Dumfries. He was an absolute workaholic. He would trick me into like the late nights, you had to get back in the mission flat by 9:30, as you know. And it was like 9:10, and we had no car at the time. We had no car to drive back, um, for first month. I think we got a car the second month. And he said, look, do you want to do, uh, it's 10 past 9 or 5 past 9, do you want to knock on this extra door or just go home to your, to your, you know, to your place? And I said, uh, oh, let's go home. And he went, no, trick you, you're not obedient. We'll knock on another door. And I was like, uh, oh my gosh. And he said, Elder Wilkes, you've really got to step up and be obedient.

Uh, oh, I remember that culture so well.

I mean, oh my goodness, it was, it was horrendous. Um, I remember, Jim, the apartment I went to, Dumfries, was horrendous. I've got a photograph of this. Can you still hear me? Um, yeah, so I'm sorry. So that's okay, that's okay. So we drove down from Edinburgh with Elder Rockwood He'd been there, I don't know, about a month before. Had this— and it reputate— all the missionaries said to me who knew him in the mission, oh, you've got, you've got, you've got, uh, he's going to run you to the ground, this guy. He's a killer. He's a, he's President Dunn's favorite missionary, and he is his favorite for a reason. And he, he never stops working. He's a workaholic, this guy. I said, okay. And so, um, we drove down to the flat in, um, uh, for your American audience, a Canadian, a flat is an apartment, as you know. So we drove down to this, this, uh, rickety old, um, flat on Myth Place in, in Dumfries, and it looked— the windows from the outside looked like they were falling out. We, we opened the door. It was above a pub, um, and at a fish and chip shop at a pub, and we opened the— there was a red sandstone like the ones in Glasgow, right? And we opened the door, went up these rickety old stairs, and he had this concertina door. I remember this this door, I call it concertina door, like that. And you kind of like it, like in the chapel, you know, there's—

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Between the columns. Cultural Hall.

That's it. Yeah, this was really old. And so opened it and the sight I beheld was something out of the third world. We had the window on the left, which was a sash window. That's the one that pulls down also, but which didn't close properly. And there was an old sheet stuck between the 3-inch gap to stop the wind coming in. There was a mattress on the floor and it was all untidy with old bedsheets that looked like they hadn't been washed in a long time. And he said, that's your bed. And on the right there was a bed with, on bricks, there was some bricks supporting the bed. And he said, I think it's, which bed is, he said, I said, which bed is, which bed is yours? And I was like, that bed away. No, 'Uh-uh, wrong answer.' He did that a lot. It was annoying. And I, I, everything, I get everything wrong. Every, every question he asked, I got it wrong. 'Ah, that's, that's my bed. That's yours on the floor next to the window. That's mine.' He said, 'You know how you can tell the difference?' And I went, 'No.' He said, 'Look up.' I looked up at the ceiling, and I've got a photograph of this because this is not believable. I've got evidence, and I, I invite you to challenge me on this because this is really Above on the ceiling of his bed was stapled tin foil, cooking tin foil. And it was there to reflect the heat because in the middle of the apartment was an old gas fire. You know the gas fire elements? There was 5 of them, right? And only the middle one worked. You know those old gas fires, you'd click and it would work. And the pilot flame was the only thing that worked. And it was only enough power to light that middle section of that, the elements in the gas fire. So the gas flames would kick up and it would, if they're all working across the fire, it would heat this stone inside the fire and that would glow and give off all the heat, right? But only the pilot flame works. That meant all the middle element worked and it was freezing. It was unbelievable. He had this bed clean, or it looked clean, loads of bedclothes on it that looked like they were fine, washed, tin foil on the roof, off the floor. Mine, no tin foil. He said, he said, um, uh, because you're the junior companion and, uh, that's where the junior companions sleep. So I said, I, it was pretty rough, pretty rough. I, I, I I had no idea, I didn't expect anything like this at all. I expected something a bit more decent than that. Anyway, I didn't complain, I said, okay. I wrote home, I slept on that bed for a week. I wrote home, took a picture, sent it back, and the family, the bishop who looked after me, as you know, were alarmed and sent me a big parcel of stuff, food and blankets, and like I was a refugee, right? And it was like, "He's a refugee living in Scotland," and, you know, refugee mode and sending blankets and sleeping bags. And so they kind of, you remember this farmer's quite well off and I owe much to them, you know, for helping me. And they were like, "Oh my gosh, this is awful." And within a week or so or 2 weeks, I got this stuff. I was able to, you know, stay warm at night. The window, uh, the sash window had a gap of 2-3 inch, and there was this stuff, this, um, blankets inside to stop the wind coming. And opposite— whoever in Scotland that gets this or lives in Dumfries, whatever, they'll know what I'm talking about— opposite the apartment was a bike, a motorcycle shop called Scott Speed. I remember Scott Speed, and it was right opposite the, uh, apartment. So at nighttime, above the pub we'd have fights outside underneath the apartment. And literally one time people, this guy was banging this other guy's head on our apartment door. And so nighttime was crazy, very loud. You couldn't get to sleep. Pub finished at 11, you were in bed at 10:30. Prayers, as you know, 10:30, you were, as soon as you hit the pillow, you were gone. 'Cause you were so exhausted after knocking on doors at 10 hours a day in the rain and being told to get back to England, you sassenach, you know, they, Scots really didn't like the English. The ones I— many of them I came across weren't, um, happy about hearing an English accent. That's another conversation. So, um, you know, after all of those 10 hours each day, you know, uh, being rejected and knocking on doors and rain after rain after rain, and, and then, uh, you know, coming home, you think, you know, when you, when you've had a rough day at work or whatever, you come home to somewhere warm, right? A meal, a fire, loved ones, some refuge, some reason for living. I went back to this terrible cave that was like I was homeless. It was going back to at least the park bench. It was my park bench, right? Going back there and I was hooded with my dog. At least I was I can't compare them, but it was, it was, uh, I felt like I'd gone back in time, actually. Anyway, the pub was closing, 11, 11:30. There'd be fights often. People got drunk. I remember a woman banging the head of a, um, uh, what we thought was a boyfriend, but it actually turned out to be a husband's head, banging on the door. And I went down, opened the door, told me to get lost and fuck off. And they were drunk and threatened and that, you know, I kind of closed the door. But this, um, pump life underneath at nighttime kept us awake. I was exhausted. And then the freezing— it was so cold. My companion, uh, you know, I wasn't, um, you know, didn't have— didn't know as much as he did in terms of doctrine, etc. So I got all the, you know, the, the stuff wrong. Um, you know, I passed off the discussions. You had to get up 5:30 to pass off the discussions, and I passed them up pretty quickly. But he asked me questions to kind of trip me up, and I, and I, um, would often get the answers wrong. And then the Scott Speed, this motorcycle shop, literally right opposite the apartment, the, the flat, the alarm would go off. I took a picture, I've got a photograph of Scott Speed, and in the middle of the, the middle of the night, 3 o'clock in the morning, this— I won't swear, but this alarm went off of this motorcycle shop Every night almost. And I'm, oh my, I'm so tired. And I remember one night the phone, 'cause I'm on the floor, the mattress is on the floor, there's a phone there and Rocco's over there. And I pick up the phone and I call 999, your 911, right? So UK's 999. And I call the police and I'm half asleep and I pick up the phone and I say, 999, which emergency service you need? And I went, I was after anyone, please, just, just someone please turn the alarm off. And then, who do you want? I said, please, um, I said, the alarm keeps going off. And they said, what do you mean the alarm? What's this? I was half asleep, right? 3 o'clock in the morning. I said, it's the Scotspeed, the alarm keeps going off, um, someone must be breaking in, just get the alarm, switch off the alarm. I knew people weren't breaking in, the alarm was faulty. And so some nights the police would show up call the owner. The lab would be switched off half an hour later. Meanwhile, I'm 4 o'clock in the morning at this point, and, um, I'm absolutely exhausted. And then, um, and then it would happen again another night a few days later. It was— there was no respite going back to the apartment. Um, and then with Rockwood, uh, we would, um, work all the hours. He was a good mystery, very strict. And then I did something that I perhaps shouldn't have done. Um, uh, and keeping in mind I'm 20 years old, I'm very fit. I used to gym, weightlifting, athletics, very physical, fast runner, physically in a very good shape. And I say to him, I said— and he was exhausted, by the way, he was up right at the end of his mission. I got him right in the end, physically drained after 2 years of burnt out, frankly, and, um, overworked himself. And, and he'd asked permission, uh, without my knowledge, at President Durham for working P-days. So I worked my P-days, went to the laundrette, uh, had to go outside to do GQing while he's inside doing his laundry.

Just so for people listening to that, that's the asking the golden questions, uh, which were what? What do you know about the Mormons and would you like to know more? Oh yeah.

And my experience in GQing was not successful. I once got spat in my face by somebody in Edinburgh. GQing is approaching strangers, trying to open a conversation about religion in Scotland, by the way, which, as you know as well as I do, if you're not Church of Scotland or whatever, then I don't know, that doesn't go down very well. And so I, We tracked long hours on those Dumfries streets, and, um, and I'd say to Elder Rockwood, he's like 10 past 9, he said, 'Rockwood,' and he would look so tired, Jim. He was so exhausted, his eyes were sagging, his eyelids, he almost had to lift them up with, you know, with his hands, as he was exhausted. I said, 'Look, do you, you know, we've had a long day here, do you want to, um, uh, not go home, uh, or knock this last door?' And he went, 'Oh, let's go.' And I went, 'No.' I said, no. I said, we're gonna knock this next door. Then he went, he looked at me and was like, oh my gosh, you know. And I went, nope, we're gonna be obedient. We're gonna knock this last door. I said, you didn't, uh, you didn't qualify in that one, did you? You didn't, you weren't successful. Can you say you weren't successful in your answers there? And I said, and it was wrong that I did that. It was, and, and I feel bad about that, uh, but, but I, and the last few weeks I pushed him hard physically. And so what I did, um, he would, uh, when I first got him the first week, it'd run between doors. It'd run, would run from door to door. And I'd say, okay, let's— and I was, remember, I'm the fresh guy, fit, athletic, uh, used to be gymnast. I run, I weightlift, I'm in good shape. I'm— I said, this is fine. And then the second week it stopped. I said, why we're not running? Let's run. So I made him run, um, for the last 3 weeks. So what little life he had left, and I regret doing that, um, but we ran and ran and ran and ran and ran. We ran, um, we didn't have a car for the first month, so I made him run to the area and made him run back. So we knocked a couple of extra doors. I said, I said, what we'll do, we'll knock some more doors and run back. Allow us to be more obedient and knock those doors. He couldn't believe it. He wrote to the mission president and said to the President Dunn, uh, and he got around the mission, and I, I don't— I didn't like this reputation, but now Elder Wilkes has worked me to death, has worked the worker, and I got this, uh I was fairly balanced as a missionary, but I got this reputation of being an extremely hard worker, working P-days. And I knew what I was doing wasn't right. It was, I think I was trying to teach him a lesson. In hindsight, with a bit more maturity, I wouldn't have done that.

So what you're saying is, you're saying that you weren't working like that because you felt sort of compelled to do the work, but you were doing it sort of to spite him.

To teach him a lesson. Yeah, teach him a lesson. Yeah. And that was wrong. And I was immature and that was wrong and I regret that. And at the end, I apologized to him and we started developing a good relationship towards the end. And I said, that was wrong what I did. He actually admitted to me that he'd overworked himself and And I said, look, I was trying to teach you a lesson that was wrong. You know the companion inventory they call it, right? Companion inventory. You maybe had like half an hour to tell each other where you need to improve. With him, he gave me the full half hour. I had to write everything down of things I needed to improve on. But for him, it was just a few minutes, but it was a long list I had to work on. Anyway, I regret doing that. I'll tell you a funny story though, Jim Bennett. It's just give you an idea of of what it was like there. And we'd been out tracting, we were exhausted, uh, we'd run everywhere. He was burned out, I was tired, but I didn't show it. It was cold, windy, we'd been rejected all day. Uh, every day was like that, frankly. Um, and I remember we were, we were knocking in a town called Lockerbie.

Yeah, that's where the, that's where the terrorist attack Exactly.

So you there at the time? I was, I was there. Yes. So the, uh, this is just before the event. I'd knocked most of the doors in Lockerbie with Elder Rockwood, and he left, and I was there for a few more months. So the other missionaries that, um, came after Elder Rockwood, um, I was in the same area. I think I sent 3 missionaries home from Dumfries. I was there for a few months, got to know the members well, loved the members, adored the members. Cried, bawled my eyes out when I left, sobbed, didn't want to leave. Wrote to the mission president, don't make me leave. He said, here, Elder Wilkes, this is how the missions work. You go from area to area. I was heartbroken. I got so close to them, Jim. I got up early hours in the morning, got a photograph of the sun rising, and me taking a picture of the sunrise. And I remember I still got that photograph, but I was absolutely bawling my eyes out driving up to the mission hall from Dumfries. Fell in love with the members and just grew close to the area. Anyway, we used to— we tracked Lockerbie, uh, for many months, uh, just before the terrorist attack, and, and got to know the folks in that town very well. Many of them— some of them sadly lost their life in that event. And, um, and there was a, a house that we knocked on as a small cottage, uh, that was a terraced redstone cottage, quite long. There were terraced properties, sandstone single-story door window. But when you opened the door, it was quite long. They had, you know, quite lengthy, uh, places, uh, buildings. And so when this door opened, and it was 8:30, exhausted, hungry, cold, rejected, um, the door opened. This sweet old lady came to the door with a wee Scottish accent and, uh, uh, quickly, within seconds, I stopped listening to her and my whole DNA focused entirely on this incredible roaring fire that I could see right at the end of the corridor, the the walkway, the— what do you call it when you go into the house? It's quite long. Landing, corridor. It's quite long. Yeah. Uh, again, this is on the floor, this is ground level, there's no upstairs. It was quite long. There must have been 3 rooms on the left. But in the distance there, um, beckoning me, um, and speaking to me, uh, was this, uh, fire, this real great, great roaring fire. And I could see a, um, a settee, which is a couch, that looked inviting, that was speaking to me, coming in, coming in. There were two armchairs that I could see in the room, but this fire, um, was just, um, uh, speaking to me personally. And my whole body, my whole mind was, uh, completely and entirely focused on trying to get in, not to teach the gospel, um, but to get warm, but to, to get warm. And, and I remember not saying anything on the door. Initially, Elder Rocco was speaking and it wasn't going well. And I said to this lady, I said, look, we're so cold. We're so cold. It's been a long day. Would you mind if we come in just for a few minutes just to get warm? Please. I was like that. Please. Please. And lo and behold, she said yes. I'm like, oh my God, the rocket looked at me, it was like, wow, that's a great way of getting in, right? But, but I wasn't— that wasn't my intention. My intention was actually to get warm. Speaking to you, who knows this, yeah, which is anyone being in Scotland, right?

You know, I have to tell this story just very quickly. I had a similar experience in that there was— we were freezing and we got— we We knew there was a member who was a less active member. And so we went to his house, and he had this coal fire, this big, huge coal fire, really, really warm. We got in, we sat there, and he just started talking our ears off. And I fell asleep. I was falling asleep. And I think I started to dream. And at one point, totally inappropriate, I all of a sudden say, I have a cousin with Down syndrome. Had nothing to do with the conversation. Nothing at all. It was a complete non sequitur. And all of a sudden, I was wide awake. And he's looking at me like, what? My companion's just staring at me. And I just was like, yo, nice to be here with you. But it was one of the most traumatic moments of my mission just because it was so inappropriate. Anyway, go ahead. I just know that I actually— this is exactly how you felt at that moment.

That's funny. That's funny. This is very similar to that. Very similar, actually. Interesting. We had a similar experience. So she lets us in. We walk down. As I'm walking down, I start to feel it getting warmer and warmer. It's quite a long corridor. We go in and you've got these two single chairs and a big settee. She sat You could tell where she'd been sitting on this big couch on the corner there. Right in the center, there's this big roaring fire, just, you know, logs on it. It's hot. Flames are everywhere. It's glowing red. The whole room is just so warm and toasty. And I'm so grateful. I'm like, Heavenly Father, thank you so much. Thank you so much for letting us come in. Into the, um, into this person's home to get warm. I didn't thank him for the opportunity to teach, nothing like that. It was purely selfish and not in saving us. So I wasn't interested in saving the soul. Of course, I, I would like to save us all, but it, for me, it was like a, just like a, um, a survival kind of thing, right? And so anyway, we sat down and she was sweet and she said, oh, where you from? And, you know, I'm from Yorkshire, and Elder Rock is from Denver, and Oh yes, she's got a cousin in America. She's talking and the fire's right there. And a minute later, probably not much longer than that, we, the conversation stops and I look up at an elder Rockwood who was totally burned and literally a week or two before going home and burned out beyond burned. Uh, he's got his eyes closed and is asleep, right? Uh, 2 minutes in, I look at this lady and she, uh, she's smiling at me and I say, well, we've got a, uh, we have a, you know, we're missionaries and we have a message and, um, you know, we want to share that message with you. She says, that's very lovely, very sweet. And so I, um, uh, all I remember is, um, looking across at Elder Rocco Di he's not there anymore. Uh, his looking at him, uh, has an effect on me. And, um, I just put my head back and I said, Elder Rockwood will now share some things with us. Um, he's— and he was asleep. He's asleep. He's dead. Not literally dead, but he's asleep. Dead to the world. Uh, she looks at him and, uh, you could tell she's tired. She's an old lady. She, you know, she's quite, uh, was quite tired. I then closed my eyes, and next thing I know is at some point, uh, 5 or 10 minutes later— I think it was about 5 minutes or 6 minutes later— I wake up, my eyes open. I'm wondering where the heck I am. I look at her, she's asleep. She fell asleep. I look at El Rocco, he's gone. He's totally asleep. I look at the fire and I think, uh, should I do the right thing and wake everybody up and, and save this person's soul like a good mystery, or should I fall back asleep? What do you think?

I, uh, I, I, I, I, I know what I would have done, which is what I think you probably did.

I did. I kind of put my head back and I must have gone for 20 minutes, 15 or 20 minutes. And we must have been sleeping for 20 minutes in total, probably 25 minutes. And then we woke up. I woke up again. I felt a bit guilty, you know, total stranger, this lady's house. She was still gone. He was still gone. And then I said, I went like this. I went, and I went, El Rocco, over to you. Oh my gosh, oh my gosh. Anyway, the big fat— he woke up, she woke up like that, and I went, El Rocco. And he woke up, I said, over to you. And he went, uh, he looked around where, like, like, wondering where the heck we were. She's like, who are you guys? In the, in the, in the, like for a moment, like, she's got these two total strangers, one with the Yorkshire accent, mine, one with American accent, his. She doesn't know us, right? Completely in, in her living room. Uh, she looks at a, uh, a watch. Oh, uh, what's, what's going on? She said. And I said, oh, we, we're missionaries, uh, you know, you let us in, we were called, let us in. You very— oh yes, yes, yes. I said, little Rockwood's got something to say. And he went, where do we leave off? I said, I said, the Holy Ghost dialogue, Holy Ghost dialogue, come on, get with it. So he started talking about the Holy Ghost dialogue, and she said, look, you know, I'm not interested, I'll let you in to get warm. And I said, you know what, Elder Rockwood, this lovely lady, she's right, let's let this lady have a night back. And, you know, we're very grateful to you for allowing us in to get warm. It was We were so cold out there, so thank you so much. Elder Okwu is still bewildered as to what's going on and still can't quite remember which part of the discussion that he needed to get back into. Of course, we didn't teach any discussions. And so that was it. So we left. There's 20 minutes of our mission life where we're completely asleep in a stranger's home, but I will always be grateful. What a wonderful lady who let these two strangers in, in front of this roaring fire, uh, who just kind of, for that night, uh, just kind of kept us warm. So, um, amazing, amazing experience.

And there are plenty more amazing experiences to come, but we're out of time. So we hope to see you next time on Inside Out.