002 Lisa McDonald -- Living & Leading Fearlessly!

Welcome to Walking the Walk, the program for people who want to become better leaders and leaders who want to become better people. Start walking the walk with your host, renowned leadership speaker and author of The Sensei Leader, Jim Bouchard.

Lisa McDonald is a successful speaker, TV and radio host. She's a coach, a mentor, and a mother of two. That might be the most challenging job of all, but she's also the author of three bestselling children's books. Little Boy Gan from Passion-Filled Everland, Reimburse the Universe, and Planet Pomegranate. I'm hoping I'm saying that right. And she recently contributed a chapter to the international nonfiction bestseller 365 Days of Grace. On her weekly radio talk show, she reaches 145 countries, and she's available for podcast listeners via iTunes. Lisa interviews an impressive roster of guests, including Deepak Chopra, Lisa Gibbons, David Suzuki, and our dear friend Dov Baron, a future guest on this program. Lisa's latest project, which she calls her greatest professional and personal adventure, is her newly branded Living Fearlessly talk show website and book. In the spirit of our program, Lisa not only talks the talk, but she is truly walking the walk as she practices and shares the message that the key to success and happiness comes through learning how to live fearlessly. Lisa, welcome.

Thank you, Jim Bouchard. Good morning. How are you?

I'm doing great. You know what? I know that you like to, you know, take off the gloves and just punch it out. So we're gonna start right away with a challenge question, okay? Long ago, you know, I learned that courage isn't the absence of fear. The absence of fear is stupidity. Now, I was validated by one of my heroes, General Patton, when he said, "If we take the generally accepted definition of bravery as a quality which knows not fear, I've never seen a brave man." And then in my presentations, when I was setting up for my presentations, I found out that Nelson Mandela ripped off my idea too. I know I said it first, but Anyway, he said, "I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear." So are we all wrong, or somehow are we singing in harmony here?

I think we're in sync with that message, absolutely. And there's different ways in which to interpret that. And I think fundamentally, at the end of the day, regardless of your interpretation, it's how you execute, it's how you navigate, it's how you maneuver, and it's how you step up and you step in and just rise in your own game. That's truly for me what living fearlessly is, and if there's ever a moment where I feel trepidation or I feel uncertainty, I just tell myself, "You know, Lisa, the fact that you're feeling this way, that's an indication that intuitively you got to step into it," and I do.

Now, that does sound like we're singing in harmony. I remember when I was coming up through the martial arts ranks, and I borrow a lot from the Eastern philosophies, they have these games called koans, puzzles, would be a better way to say it. Koans in Japanese and gungan in Chinese. And what it is, some people think they're ridiculous puzzles. One of them is, what do you do if you meet the devil on the road? And after you let people struggle with it, the answer simply is shake his hand, right? And to me, I think that's what we really need to do with fear, right? It's not that we're going to eradicate it. It's managing it, right? Shaking its hand, acknowledging it, and then dealing with it, right?

Absolutely, absolutely.

How did your kids teach you that? I bet they taught you a lot about that, right?

You know, it's funny that you say that, Jim, because I've often referred to my children as being my best teachers. You know, like, I, I'm learning from them exponentially, uh, you know, in terms of patience, in terms of, uh, getting back to basics, grassroots, in terms of rediscovering, reclaiming, and re-embracing your childhood spirit. And, you know, that's, that's the message that my books, all of my books in their own individual unique unique way embodies. It's how I truly believe that I navigate my life, and I just think that's where we're our most wondrous, our most risk-taking, our most loving, and our most fearless. And so thank you to my children on a daily basis, both of them. They force me to have to rise and be in a position in which to walk my walk. So absolutely, my children, my children are the mirror for me every single day.

I have to— I'm going to absolutely validate that. You know, most of the lessons that I've learned about leadership came from dealing with kids in the martial arts program over 30 years. What's very interesting though is if I don't set up a disclaimer beforehand and I introduce a challenge or a problem or an issue, even with the C-suite executives of big companies, they face exactly the same fears. They have the same fears, the same trepidations. And we're all dealing with the same thing because it's a fundamental human issue, right?

Absolutely it is. And I talk about that quite often and certainly there's no original thought. A lot of people in our industry echo the same sentiments, but I do really believe that to truly live an abundant life, one that honors yourself, is indicative of the things that you claim that you want to endeavor to do and live a life of passions, you really have to get back into the heart space and get out of the head space. Is very analytical. It can be self-deprecating. It can keep you immobilized. And truly, I think if you're operating within the heart sphere, that's where you're tapped in and reconnected to what puts your soul on fire. And so anytime I feel like I'm getting a bit over-analytical, a little bit too critical, a little bit jaded in my thinking, or I'm, I'm staying still as opposed to propelling myself forward, I just remember I'm operating from the wrong space.

I like the way you're saying that about the headspace. I always, I'm a movie junkie if you didn't know that. And I always think about Animal House, that old movie Animal House, right? The guy sitting in, there's a devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other shoulder. And it's, it's that head, it's that head voice. And how often is that devil's voice a little bit louder, especially right, especially when, uh, you know, that, that demon is pointing out, um, not only fears and trepidation, but those are a result of something, aren't they? Result of either a lack of confidence, lack of preparation, bad experiences in our lives. And you know what, most of the folks that I've met that do this kind of work, do the work that you're doing, you know, they don't lick it from a rock, I like to say. You know, you're talking, you're dealing with fear, you're helping people manage fear, face and manage fear. Well, how did you arrive at that? What were the experiences you led to? Were there fears in your life that are monumental ones you had to overcome or?

Very good question, Jim, and I've been an open book about all of that, and in terms of my first adult non-fiction book that— which is in the process of soon being published and released, I talk quite openly and talk candidly about a lot of the different struggles and challenges and adversity which I faced in my life dating back to 4 years old. I'm an incest survivor. I'm a divorced woman. I'm a single woman. I've been on my own since 16. I put myself through college, put myself through university, purchased my own braces. I've been self-sufficient and have had to be a survivor a healer/warrior my whole life as far as what I can recollect and as far back as I can remember. And, you know, when I look back on those different facets of my life and the different hurdles that seemed really monumental and really overly challenging back then, I just have to go back and remember that I conquered it. And in addition to that, I've also spoken quite openly about the fact that prior to what I now do for a living, I used to be in social services, crisis management specifically, particularly within senior management for about 25 years. And so I was completely immersed in all the people within the isms that fall under the umbrella of the disenfranchised and the abused and the marginalized and, you know, so there's always somebody who has it worse. And when I look back on some of the triumphs of different people who I was very blessed to serve, you know, people who didn't necessarily speak English as their first language, people who didn't have a GED, people who had no documentation really had to start from ground zero and really did something with their lives and made themselves proud, became contributors to society. So I really think it goes back to the human spirit. I really believe it comes and drives from a place of self-love. I think everything comes from self-love, and I think in order to keep yourself on that track of being in a good mindset, a healthy mindset, and one that's going to support your visions, your dreams, your collaborations, your partner— partnerships, business, personal, family, everything. I think that it's just really important that you learn to get out of your own way and deconstruct some of the programming that has been indoctrinated into our belief system of how we see ourselves, how we see others, and how we see the world.

Amen. We get hardwired and we get hardwired early. But you know what, it's funny, going back to your first thought there, you could be the object of a demonstration these days when you're talking about, you know, the way that you brought yourself up and the way that you You know, you really shaped your own life from an, from an early age and overcame some rather traumatic experiences. But now one of the greatest challenges we're facing in leadership, and I hear it almost every time I present, is dealing with this entitlement mentality. And I don't think it's necessarily restricted to a particular generation. I know the millennials get kind of a rap for that, but you know, I've seen it growing now for a couple of generations. But we have this entitlement mentality that we're waiting around for someone else to do it for us and are very afraid to step out and take a chance and do it for ourselves. So how did you really learn that and how did that shape what you're teaching now?

Well, I think because of some of the things I just highlighted as far as my own personal experiences and being very closely upfront and personal with other people who were in their darkest periods in their lives, you know, I was constantly reminded of the importance of what it is to be grateful and— There it is. Yeah, and when you have a glimpse of— when you have a glimpse of brightness, whether it be the people that you choose to surround yourself with, whether it be, you know, something that you step into and and eradicate fear and you can see, wow, I am capable of accomplishment, I am capable of obtaining goals and achieving. And for me, that all comes back to the basic principles of, as well, of paying it forward and being of service to others. So I think the more that you're in the mindset of what can I do for you, how can I serve you, as opposed to what can you do for me, that just generates all kinds of very beautiful energy dynamics, opportunities. You know, I just think everything has to come from that place. And, and that's how I choose to look at my life, and that's how I choose to interface with people, whether it be professionally or personally.

Now, in getting to know you, I, I'm not going to place you in the category that I'm going to attack right now, uh, because I know, I know your character. But there are a lot of people, especially with your— with that share your background in social service and counseling and whatnot, uh, therapy and what— and those, those types of professions that sometimes they are dealing with their own fears. And I understand that that's part of your your, uh, I don't want to call it recovery. I'm templating it on my life. That's okay. But anyway, um, there are people that do that to mask or to, to ignore for a time their own fears. You know, they don't want to shake the devil's hand. You know, what do you say to that? How do you help people, you know, get better or help them identify at least or understand, look, it's not about hiding these fears or burying them. Um, and especially when you're helping other people deal with their fears, we really need to be, we need to be empathetic and we need to be open to that process. Right. And sometimes that's very painful.

Absolutely it is. And, you know, and for what I'm describing here, Jim, you know, these aren't— I don't profess to be a guru. I don't profess to be self-actualized. You know, I don't have all the answers. But, you know, what I say to people, because I do mentor people who are very much— they would describe themselves upon meeting me for the first time as stuck. And so, you know, it's really again going back to basics. And, you know, where is that script coming from and why are you buying into that and why are you going back Why are you choosing to digress and regress as opposed to propelling yourself forward? And what can we do to make that happen? What can we do to make that achievable? So it's not instantaneous. It's not overnight. You know, I go back and forth. I vacillate because of the fact that I'm a human being. So it's just really about, you know, you get to a point where it's like, I can't do this anymore. So when you're in your darkest place and, you know, you're not happy, nothing's working out for you, you're tired of the same results, well, the same things are going to continue to show themselves, present themselves and surface unless something fundamentally, critically and immediately changes. And so for me, it starts with inner dialogue. How are you talking to yourself? How are you conversing with yourself? How are you treating yourself? And if that happens to differ, if the answer to those questions tends to differ from how you would as a kind compassionate, empathetic human being, if that differs from how you would treat somebody else who's perhaps facing the same types of challenges or adversity, then there's incongruency there. And again, it goes back to self-love. So you need to treat yourself as lovingly, as kindly, as compassionately as you would somebody else in their time of need. So I think— and it's just really, I do a lot of mirror work and I do a lot of self-proclamations. I do a lot of mantras and I'm just very cognizant, particularly being at this age and for what I've gone through in my life, Jim, you know, nothing's guaranteed. We're all gonna die. It's inevitable we're gonna die.

Yeah, that is guaranteed, right? That's the only one.

Absolutely. So knowing that to be true, the conversation I then have with myself if I'm personally feeling stuck or immobilized is I just say, Lisa, we're all gonna die. And if today happens to be that day, and you know, there is no crystal ball to in fact determine that, and this is your last day, are you gonna go out with a woulda, shoulda, coulda, or are you gonna go out like gangbusters honoring yourself and doing what it is that truly fulfills you.

So better to die in flames than freeze to death, right?

There you go.

Yeah. Hey, listen, before we get too much further, I want to make sure we're going to tell people how to, you know, a little bit more about you because I know you sent forward a nice little 30-second commercial. We're going to play that when we come back from the break. I think this is another challenging question that I'd like to share with you. You know, when we're talking about business leaders in particular, because we do this in workshop all the time, one of the challenge questions that we that we try to instigate problems with is how much should a leader insert themselves in the private and personal lives of the folks that they're serving? Because what we're talking about, it's a very intimate— all leadership to me is a very intimate relationship. But we also have to respect personal boundaries in the workplace and with others. So let's talk about that when we get back. And also, yeah, we're going to dig into that mirror thing a little more because that really excited me. That sound good?

Lovely.

All right, we'll be back in about 30 seconds. All right.

Hi, this is Lisa McDonald. As an author, motivational speaker, mentor, and television radio host, I help people break the cycle of fear and self-doubt that keeps them from leading an abundant life. Join me each week as we explore the secrets to living fearlessly, Fridays live at 8 AM Pacific, 11 AM Eastern, on the Contact Talk Radio Network. That's ctrnetwork.com.

And I know, Lisa, you've been pointing people to your Facebook page as you're developing some new links, right? Is that the best place for them to find you?

Yeah, Facebook is good. I do have a Living Fearlessly Public Figure business page, which has gained some phenomenal traction, which I thank everybody for, because again, you can't, you know, you can't accomplish what you want to accomplish by living and existing in a vacuum. So for people who have continued to support me, whether it be through Twitter, LinkedIn is in the process of getting updated and improved, website is just about— Oh, that's right.

It's a never-ending battle.

It's never-ending. And my website is just about to be relaunched, so I can be reached at LisaMacDonaldAuthor.com. I can be found on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. I have Snapchat, but I can quite honestly say I don't really use it very well. I'm not— I haven't finagled that very well at all.

I hear you.

I hear you. And listen, if you're listening live, and there seems to be a few people doing that today, feel free to chime in with questions and comments, and those will be available on the on-demand feeds as well. So don't be shy, come on in and ask a question or share your thoughts too. So Lisa, let's get back to, yeah, that idea. Everything you're saying makes perfect sense to me, but I believe again, well, I think we usually were singing in harmony, that we're talking about leadership as a very intimate relationship. I think it's the, to me, it's the highest level of human interaction. Absolutely. You're willing to share yourself with a person that way, and you're willing to expose yourself to embrace that responsibility, right, and have the courage to— you know, leading is a lot about sharing your ideas, exposing your ideas and actions to public scrutiny. But in order to operate effectively as a leader, I believe you need to know at least on a basic level, you know, what are the specific motivations. You know, people always ask me, how do I motivate someone? I don't know. I have to ask them. I need to learn what motivates them, and then we can see if I can answer that, right?

Absolutely.

How much should a business leader insert themselves in the personal or private lives of the people they serve, do you think?

Well, you know, that's kind of— it's a very subjective question and everybody's hardwired differently and we're all operating at different levels of self-awareness. And I'd like to think that I read people quite well. I've had to do that again in my prior vocation of being in social services and dealing with people when they're their most raw and vulnerable. And I, you know, I always talk about the strength within vulnerability. I think the people who are most vulnerable are the most authentic. I also think they're the most relatable. I think they're the most beautiful and I think they're the strongest people because I think if you can tap into identifying and generally whether— it doesn't have to be circumstance-related in terms of whether I can relate directly to your circumstance, but we all as human beings know what it is to feel the whole vast array of emotions. We know what it is to feel defeated. We know what it is to feel loved. We know what it is to feel unloved, successful, unsuccessful. Business-wise, personal. So, you know, I kind of gauge who it is I'm interfacing with, and I take my cue from them as to what they comfortably wish to tell me, at least initially, to build a rapport, to establish trust, and to know that whatever it is that they do choose to disclose, it's certainly not going to be used against them, because that oftentimes is what prevents people from feeling trusting— things have been used against them.

Oh, absolutely.

You know, our strengths sometimes are perceivably our weaknesses and people can sometimes pounce upon that and prey upon that. And I think it's very important, you know, not to approach any relationship in your life from a hierarchical standpoint where I'm up here and you're down there. Like, I really like to go into— we're equals because we're human beings. Right there, we're equals. And, you know, the goal is, I think, to empower people. It's not to spoon-feed people necessarily. It's not to say, my way or the highway, or, you know, if you don't get on board and you don't have necessarily the type of momentum I do and how I'm able to navigate my life and get myself unstuck professionally, personally, or otherwise, it's just, you know, really encouraging people. And sometimes, again, going back to basics, you know, tell me what your strengths are. Let's not just focus on the problems. Tell me what your strengths are, because if people are having a difficult time being able to outline and verbally express what it is they view themselves or perceive themselves as being successful at what they're good at, what their strengths are. Okay, well, there's your beginning point for me, you know, because—

I'm so glad you brought that up because, you know, there's— and I think that's the bad rap that the self-help industry gets. For example, you can exploit, you can make a tremendous amount of money by focusing on people's weaknesses. I think the greatest leaders that I've ever encountered and that I've studied do focus— you know, it's good to build up your weaknesses. And this is a martial arts lesson we learned too. I remember a master that I had, he was talking about a very difficult kick, which is good for young 18-year-old people to do, right? Athletes. But when you get a little older, you're going to end up in the hospital doing something like this. But anyway, I asked him one time, do you do this particular technique? He said, hell no, I don't. I threw it away. I'm going to work on my strengths more than my weaknesses. I think that's a very important aspect of leadership, that you are able to identify and nurture people's strengths as much, if not more than, identifying and offering correction.

Absolutely. Well, even Gary Vaynerchuk, he says that, you know, I know I have weaknesses, but if I'm going to be successful, I'm not going to focus on my weaknesses. I'm going to focus on my strengths. I'm going to capitalize on them, you know. And, you know, and so some people are very comfortable and very confident in being able to understand within themselves, more importantly, before being able to openly express it with anyone else. Call it a mentor, call it somebody who's heading up a mastermind, a leadership training session, and, you know, to be able to express that out loud. But, you know, I think this is why we get into the problem of, you know, perpetuating the doom and gloom and people backward spiraling and going down the rabbit hole, because our society can be very easily totally concentrated and immersed on the negative.

Oh, we're addicted to it, aren't we?

We're addicted.

Especially lately. Oh my God.

It's crazy. And it's, you know, it's— to me, it's very counterintuitive. It's divisive. Absolutely it is. Absolutely it is. And you know, so you know, let's come from a place of strength. You know, if we're going to be solution-focused, let's start from a place of strength. You've obviously identified that you're not in a great place in your life. You're grappling with this. You're struggling with that. You know, we don't need to kind of burn that wheel by discussing it over and over again because again, and we said this before we went live, you made reference to the electron You know, and I've talked with Dov and I've talked with you and I've talked with a whole bunch of people about quantum physics and the fact that the electrons, they need to be navigated energetically. They need to be navigated. So, you know, are you going to do so in a way that's counterintuitive and counterproductive by focusing on the negative or alternatively, conversely, are you going to focus on positive things that are going to fuel you, fuel you in terms of your self-concept, fuel you in terms of your action? Because I really do believe a lot of what you see outcome-wise is a derivative of taking massive action. Things don't just happen. I don't believe in luck. I don't believe in coincidences, but I do believe the more, the more honed you are with your choices of how you choose to see the world, how you choose to see yourself, and of course we want that to be with a positive mindset, then boom, bang, that's where everything starts to open up. That's where people like you and I interface and connect. You know, our synergies are alive. You know, I I'm interested in you, you're interested in me. We talk about dynamic things. We talk about things that we hope are gonna inspire the listeners, which I believe they already are, you know, because we need more of that in our world. We are so starving for that. We already know the problems and we know the instigators and who perpetuates those problems. Let's focus on the good stuff.

No, absolutely. And you know, one thing without losing sight of, yes, there are weaknesses we should work on And it's good to take inventory of those once in a while. And to me, I prioritize the weaknesses that I have that affect other people are the ones that I really need to work on more often than the ones that just only have an effect on me. But the idea of luck too, we're going to have to debate that on another program because I'm going to go with that. As someone who survived some really interesting experiences, I do believe luck is maybe not the right word, but this idea of chance, and I'm so appreciative that the right things happened at the right time for me sometimes. But I want to go back to something you said a little bit earlier. I think this is a very important thing that people need to understand as leaders. You used vulnerability and strength really in the same idea, in the same thought. And too often, I believe that people equate, for instance, compassion with weakness or vulnerability with weakness. And that's not the case at all, right? And it's not that we're crying in our beer in front of people. That's not what we're talking about, right? But to be open and responsive and vulnerable and compassionate, that, that requires strength. Yes or no?

Absolutely it does. And you know, that's what forges genuine authentic connection because people need to know that people can relate to them. So like, let's take a tangible example. One of my most intangible mentors who I believe I'm going to meet one day and I'm just like so right around it is Oprah Winfrey. Now Oprah Winfrey, if you look at her journey, if you look at what she's gone through, if you talk, if you look at how vulnerable she has been. She's talked about promiscuity. She's talked about being molested. She's talked about rejection. She's talked about what it is to be ostracized in what was, you know, perceivably a male-dominated field of journalism and broadcasting and whatnot. I mean, this woman got so many doors shut in her face within her family, within her career, and she just had this burning, yearning desire to say, That's fine. You can look upon me as this. You can categorize me. You can box me in. It's my choice ultimately whether I choose to follow suit. And I will not. I do not. And look at what this woman has done for herself. Now, can people relate to her status? No, not necessarily. Can people relate to her bank account? No, not necessarily. But what made her get there was the fact that she was able to talk about things that had happened to her that we know statistically happened to so many people Unfortunately, and that's where the buy-in came in, that's where the connection came in, and that's how she built a following, not for the sake of building a following for following's sake, but because she wanted to connect with people because she knows what it is to feel alone. She knows what it is to feel alienated. She knows what it is to feel ostracized and prejudiced and all these other things, and she knew she wasn't alone. So she took her message, she took her experience, and she just threw it out there. And I mean, look at where she is today as a result of being authentic.

Right. The experience is really the binding force there, isn't it? I mean, I appreciate what you're saying that sometimes, oh, we place so much emphasis on the results, on the outcomes, on, like you said, the bank account or the status or the celebrity. Celebrity, I think, is really a problem these days. And yet it's really, it's looking beyond that. And you know, that ageless question, right? Why do some people who attain, you know, this ideal of wealth or fame or whatever, and they're still not happy? Well, it's obvious to folks like you and I, isn't it, that they haven't resolved their experiences. They haven't really fully experienced life from a human perspective. They bought into the golden idols that we've built in our society, right? That really aren't, you know, I mean, hey, don't get me wrong, I'm not a hypocrite. I'd love to be rich. But having said that, I don't depend, I've never, I've learned this long ago. I do not, my happiness doesn't depend on anything that can be taken away from me.

Absolutely. Bingo. That is such a pivotal key point. I'm so glad that you mentioned that, Jim. Thank you.

Oh geez, I feel like I'm on your show now. We always do, we end up doing that, right? That's good.

Yes, we do.

Yeah.

Well, I, you know, I learned from, as somebody who does radio and somebody who does podcasts, you know, I learn from my guests more than they perhaps think that they learn from me. And I've always said that within my career, looking back on people who again were marginalized, disenfranchised, oppressed, you know, where they thought because they were coming through our doors looking for service and somebody to help them maneuver their lives, you know, it was always, oh wow, like you've 'Well, no, these people keep me humble.' You know, people keep you humble, but you have to be open to that and you have to realize why you're doing what you're doing and get very clear about what your message is, who your audience is, and, you know, and to the degree that it's benefiting the collective. Because you said something, and I can't recall exactly what it was earlier in the show here—

You're asking a guy with 12 concussions to remember something? Sorry.

No, but you said something that was very key, you know, like in terms of vulnerability. I think it was about vulnerability, but it's— You know, am I doing this for other people or am I doing entitlement, you know? So the issue, the subject matter of entitlement, you know, is this about other people or is this about me? And what am I most— yes, so that was a very good point.

What am I owed, right, which is a big problem.

Yes, absolutely.

We don't have too much time left, although, you know, we're a little bit flexible at the end. I don't know what your schedule is.

Let's keep going.

But I want to make sure people understand too that, you know, We keep ringing this gong of strength, but again, we're talking about compassion. I almost can't separate the words compassionate strength, tough yet compassionate, vulnerable yet strong.

Yes.

But again, there's a fear there when we expose ourselves, when we share these experiences, because we don't know how people are going to accept it. I know a big part of my presentations is my drug experience, and sometimes people are offended by it. Sometimes people are off-put by it. People have similar experiences, hopefully not as bad, some worse, like you said, there's always somebody worse off. But yet I've learned I've never been comfortable sharing that. I was complimented one time after a presentation and a woman came up to me, she had that experience in her life and she said, "I'm so grateful that you're so comfortable sharing that." I laughed, I said, "I'm not." I've trained myself to do that. It sounds to me like in a lot of ways you've done the same thing. It sounds like we've got a parallel experience. Are you comfortable, really truly comfortable, sharing these past experiences, or have you learned to accommodate that and, and through strength, uh, learn to share those experiences whether you're comfortable with it or not? I'm just interested.

Yeah, and that's a very, very important question. And so that was obviously acquired, because if it was something that was comfortable to me, you know, there wouldn't have been a history of abuse. It would have been disclosed after an isolated incident, right? So this was something that obviously, you know, with age, with wisdom, uh, with reaching my fuck it moment. I can't put up with this anymore and I'm not going to, you know, I'm not going to be complicit in this by buying your silence. So no, I'm going to out you, motherfucker. You know, you know, yeah, that was acquired. And then when I realized that I had the strength to do that, and did I die as a result? No. Was I the one who was penalized? No. Was I the one who went to jail? Did I do something, you know, that was completely offensive? No. This was something that was perpetrated against me, and I think sometimes because there's an element of shame or there's an element of no one's going to believe me or there's an element of this is going to blow up my entire family, you know, there's a whole host of things pressure-wise that can very much keep you silent. And so because I had been silent for so many years of my life, I kind of went the opposite way, and it was like, now you can't shut me up. Up, you know, and I spoke about that in my Harvard speech last July.

I just watched that. That was— yeah, yeah, I love that.

Yeah, and so I just, I really believe that we know for a fact as we get older, and particularly for somebody who's as educated as myself who has worked in social services and being very up on the stats, you know, I'm one of three, I'm one of four, you know, this happens all the time. It happens to males, it happens to females, and you know, is it a comfortable subject even been these many years ahead in our culture of, you know, talking more openly and candidly about things as opposed to throwing them under the rug, you know, it's still a taboo subject. It will always be a taboo subject. And, you know, you talk about incest and all of a sudden people's, you know, it's a visual thing. People start seeing things. And I know that when I say that, people are envisioning things of what it must have been and positions I was in and all kinds of things, literally and figuratively. And no, it's not— it's not a natural, very— it's not a naturally very comfortable thing, but I have to be very cognizant of what is it that motivates me, inspires me to get my message out there, that allows me to be vulnerable, that puts my story out there where I wear it on my sleeve. And it's because I know I'm going to identify with somebody. Somebody's going to identify with me, and it might break the silence for them. It might save them years of additional abuse. It might show them that someone like me can come out on the other side and still be productive and still make something positive of their lives and be a champion for other people in their lives and, you know, get people off the fence in their own lives. And I just think, you know, it's a miracle to even be here. And so when people don't— it is such a miracle to be here. And, you know, when you— when I— when people don't embody the understanding of what that miracle is, I just think it's such a waste of a life. You know, we all have our individual gifts, and my gifts have come from misfortune, as I think most people who have risen in the ranks with whatever it is that they're successful or passionate about. And I don't think you can be successful at something unless you're truly passionate. So I'm passionate about what I do because my job is to raise awareness. My job is to elevate people within themselves, all under the umbrella of advocacy and self-empowerment. And to me, that comes from being vulnerable. You know, I'm— if I'm going to be exposed for things, I'm going to be exposed for my own story, and people can get the facts straight from me directly.

Thank you so much for that. You really brought it all home. I can't think of a better way to wrap up the show. I believe that— and tell me if I'm putting words in your mouth, but, you know, we started by asking, you know, are we singing in harmony? I so strongly— I always believed that we were, but I feel even more strongly now that we are, because living fearlessly the way you're teaching it doesn't mean you're not going to face fear in your life. It doesn't mean that you're not going to experience that emotion, right? It means you're going to face it, you're going to embrace it, you're going to take these things, and everyone can learn this. If you hear anything from Lisa or myself, right? And if our experiences are worth anything, it's really for that reason alone, right? That anybody— I always like to say, look, part of the reason I tell that story is I'm the guy who stands in front of you and says there's no excuses. If I can do it, anyone can.

Absolutely, absolutely.

I think you're the same way.

Yeah, well, I just— such an honor, Jim. I can't tell you how grateful I am for giving me this opportunity to not only talk with you again, you know, through the podcast, because I just, I just think you're just such a leader yourself. I mean, you really do walk your own walk, and you've been very gracious in extending me this opportunity. And the opportunity means so much to me because it means it's going to hopefully resonate and connect with somebody else, and it's going to reinforce for them that they're not alone. And that's all I care care about in terms of using my social media platforms, reminding people they are not alone and they can still get out of the victimology mentality and turn themselves into their own victorious hero, shero, leader because we all are. I mean, we're faced with challenges every day.

So get on with it.

Get on with it. Start living fearlessly.

Strap that belt on. There you go. Yes. Thank you so much. Before I tear up because that was really— that was so kind for you. You're way too kind and I do appreciate it. I appreciate it. Let's do this. Can we pledge that this will be the first of many?

Absolutely, Jim, it will. And I'll have you back on my show, as I've already indicated before.

Sounds wonderful. Well, let's talk again soon. I hope everyone enjoyed it. Remember, you can join in on the live chat. Please don't be shy about that. And we'll keep opening that up and keep the thread going because, you know, on demand, lots of people are going to be listening on demand. Share your thoughts, share your comments, your questions in the comment areas. And if there are questions, I'll do my absolute best to answer them or get them to the people who you want to hear from. So if for this show, we'll— and I know Lisa will be very open to responding to your questions.

So absolutely. Well, keep shining, Jim. You're doing a wonderful thing here. The world needs you.

Oh, thank you so much. Thanks for listening to Walking the Walk, and we'll be back with you again soon.

Thanks for listening to Walking the Walk. Please share this episode. We encourage you to download and share the program with both experienced and aspiring leaders in your network. We also encourage you to suggest guests for future episodes. Complete information at walkingthewalkpodcast.com. Jim Bouchard is in high demand presenting keynotes and workshops for conference, corporate, and community audiences all over the world. To book Jim for your next event, meeting, or retreat, visit thatblackbeltguy.com or call Alexandra Armstrong at 207-751-8888. 14317.