018 Darshan Chandaria––"Success is NOT a destination!"

Darshan Chaudhary is one of the most dynamic, innovative, and influential business leaders in the world today. And he's just getting started. The philosophy he lives by: success is not a destination, but a continuous journey. We'll explore that philosophy and much more today with Darshan Chaudhary on Walking the Walk.

Welcome to Walking the Walk, the program for people who want to become better leaders and leaders who want to become better people. Start walking the walk with your host, renowned leadership speaker and author of The Sensei Leader, Jim Bouchard.

Darshan Chandaria is the CEO of the Chandaria Group headquartered in Nairobi, Kenya. Their diverse portfolio is centered on paper hygiene products and extends to real estate and much, much more throughout Africa and India. Darshan is also one of the stars of The Lion's Den, a Kenyan version of Shark Tank, and he's a driving force behind the Transforming Lives movement, supporting entrepreneurs and emerging business leaders. Darshan, I know you've got plenty to do. We're very grateful you're sharing some time with us today on Walking the Walk.

Thank you for having me.

Oh, absolutely. You know, for years I've been saying that the greatest gift I ever got from my life as a martial artist was this little bit of philosophy: perfection is not a destination, but a never-ending process. Now, when our executive director, Alex Armstrong, first told me about your work, she found your philosophy, success is not a destination, but a continuous journey, She instantly saw the connection and it does seem like we're singing in harmony. What do you think?

Absolutely, Jim. And I can sort of tell where that philosophy has come from because when you actually look at what success means to an individual or a leader, you actually realize that you can only be on one plane at a time, live in one house at a time, eat 3 meals a day. So very quickly, you realize that—

I eat 2 meals a day, so I messed that one up. But they're small.

No problem. I eat 2 small ones as well, mid-morning and mid-afternoon as well. But you get the gist of what I'm saying. So very quickly, you realize, OK, fine, as you accumulate wealth, it's just a byproduct of the values and what life means to you. So for me, it's exactly that. So shaping out the fact that when I get to what I think I've reached, the next step of success, there's something more I want to do. And most recently, over the last 12 months, it's really been about transforming as many lives as I can. And I think that every leader, apart from obviously being successful delivering financial returns to your stakeholders, you've got to create a sustainable process and a sustainable system where you can continue to give back and find a way to empower the next generation of entrepreneurs to continue driving economies forward, continue wealth creation, continue social inclusion. And I just find that by If we take a measure as to how many lives we transform in a day, in a week, whether that's direct or indirect, it actually gives you a very good idea of the knock-on effect you're having on all aspects of society.

It's really interesting that you say it because one of the challenges that we face sometimes with leaders today is somewhat of a loss of the humanity that really is essential to be an effective leader. And I thought it was uniquely American, but I'm seeing this now in different parts of the world where we're speaking and working. That there's such an emphasis on that bottom-line mentality. It's very difficult to get people to see, you know, past the next 3 months, never mind the next generation. And you come from a very successful background yourself. What keeps— what gives you the energy, or, you know, what's the inspiration that causes you to think beyond your own lifetime, that you want something— so you want these people to succeed, you know, well after we're dead and gone?

Yeah, that's a very, very good question. You know, I mean, I look at my journey so far over the last 7 years. So, you know, I joined the group in March 2009. I was in the UK for my university. I worked with a consulting firm for a year and a half before I came back and joined the family business. And I think what I very quickly realized is how hard it is actually for a young person in an emerging market and actually, you know, really a developing country like Kenya to actually make a mark or make a difference in the corporate world, you know, starting off by being taken seriously, you know, and then just, you know, being able to share ideas, be able to network, to be able to do business with people, you know, who are old enough to be your father, who, you know, where culturally and historically the market has looked to leaders in terms of experience, age, etc., not necessarily by by merit. And I think when I realized that, okay, this is how difficult it is, I realized that every single entrepreneur who's going to be in a position— and I was fortunate, I had a fairly successful base to come back on. But when you look at an entrepreneur who's starting from scratch, they're going to have to go through this journey, every single one of them. So, I realized, actually, it's about time that we think about not just the 20 years, 30 years of our careers, not just, you know, what we're doing for ourselves, and not just defining success as, you know, I can have everything in the world, but it's also about how can we have a positive impact on the lives of young students, young potential leaders, young entrepreneurs, so that they will carry on this journey and make sure that there is a sustainable long-term process and system in place to make sure that, you know, after we're gone, things just don't crumble.

I can't tell you how refreshing it is to hear that. And you also mentioned emerging markets.

And one of the—

we're getting ready to, hopefully this year will be the— we'll finally do it, to get over to Kenya. We've been asked to come over there for some time, but I've always struggled with the idea. Americans tend to go to different countries and different cultures and try to tell people how to do it, so to speak. And this, my relationship with Kenya goes back about 6 or 7 years now. We first made contact there and I've been nothing but impressed with the entrepreneurial spirit. So I'm looking at it, I say, well, you know, this might sound trite, but I mean it so sincerely. I'm going to learn much more and I want to bring that spirit back to the United States and other places that don't consider themselves developed, right? And I've seen that in your work. It was interesting watching a couple of episodes of The Lion's Den and seeing these folks, like you said, they're starting out, they've got nothing. I can identify with that. That's exactly how we did it.

Sure.

But how, you know, what do you say to that? What do you say to these Americans that think they know everything?

Is that a good way to say it?

I mean, it seems like we can learn more from you than you can from us at this point.

You know, you know, look, you know, this is, you know, a debate that's been there, you know, and on for many years. And if you really look at it, I mean, it just depends on sort of what your outlook is, which side of the coin you sit on. Because whether today, whichever way we look at it, I mean, some of the most successful brands in the world are US homegrown. You know, they are from the US. I mean, you look across especially the tech space, for example. I mean, all the companies making headlines today— Amazon, Uber, Apple, et cetera. And I think what the world does need to appreciate before I sort of talk about the other side of this is that there is a best practice in the US. And whether we talk about hardcore tech businesses or tech-enabled businesses, there is a specialty that we need to appreciate. I mean, the fact that Amazon, Apple, Uber, et cetera have become global brands. And when you actually look at their impact on the global economy, not just on the US economy, they have not only created an amazing product, an innovative product, but they've also created something that suits the requirements of the global consumer wherever you are geographically. So amazing best practices. But I think, you know, on the flip side, as you rightly said, you know, each market needs a sense of localization, a sense of customization. And especially when you talk about emerging markets, you know, I mean, we have emerging markets that are different life cycles of their emerging cycle. So for example, if you looked at Africa, Kenya is probably, you know, amongst the top 3, 4 economies in terms of adoption of Western culture, adoption of the Western lifestyle, adoption of newness. Kenyans are very intrigued by new products and services. And we've seen this in the last 24 months with a whole host of FDI from multinationals, especially in the food and hospitality sector. So I think for us— and look, I did a Harvard executive leadership course I just finished in December 2017. And I had the chance to meet with people from all over the world. And I think everybody tends to agree on the fact that when you're born and brought up in a market, for example, I'm Kenyan first, absolutely. And the kind of insights I would have into the Kenyan and East African market would be very, very valuable for a multinational that brings the best practice a global best practice. You know, for example, how to deal with all the stakeholders here, you know, what the market likes and doesn't. And just, you know, just basic, you know, sort of basic dynamics, you know, of the market. But I think overall what I would say is what I have seen and what I think the world will probably slowly move more towards is a partnership model where you have global best practices, a company bringing the best, you know, sort of global practice, and then an in-country, maybe sort of, you know, a family business. You know, it may be an entrepreneurial-led business, et cetera, even a government institution where they actually decide, okay, you know what, we're going to do a JV to make sure that we maximize the value creation, whether economic, financial, social, or whatever it may be. Then maybe you may find these companies after a 5, 7, 10-year learning curve trying to buy out their local partners. I think you can't take one away from the the other, in my personal opinion.

That makes perfect sense. And you keep hitting on the word global. And understandably, we're still fighting a little bit of inertia, right, in different regions that wanted a strong local identity. And that's, like I said, perfectly understandable. At the same time, whether we like it or not, we are in the global environment, aren't we? And the idea that even companies, no matter where you're located, I know here in the Northeast United States, you know, we've had a tremendous amount of immigration from Africa. And you know, people have to, leaders have to realize that even in a small organization, you're leading a diverse group of people. It may be culturally, gender, race, age, you know, a lot of different variables at stake. Now, you lead a business that spans a very diverse group of people, right? Even within Africa. And I know, you know, again, sometimes people think, well, Africa, right? But Africa has a myriad of very diverse and rich cultures. And then, your work in India and Dubai. How do you advise leaders today on exactly how to lead across such a diverse culture, both internally, you know, in your organization, but also externally with your customer base, right?

Yeah, no, no, you're absolutely right. I mean, so look, geographically, we're in Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda, India, Dubai, and the UK, you know, across sort of 8, 10 different sectors. And what you have to realize is You know, to a certain extent that when you go into a country, so for example, even though I'm Indian by historical ties, even though my grandfather, for example, the first generation that landed in Kenya was very fresh from India, I feel very much today like a tourist there. And even though I'm the same ethnic background, when I go to India, the Indians that I interact with can tell very, very quickly that I'm actually a foreigner. And so cultures change. Yes, the basic, for example, religious beliefs, the kind of food we eat, our sort of values, maybe to a certain extent, yes, aligned. But the fact that I've grown up in Kenya and I've been exposed to a very, very different environment, here everybody would say, oh wow, you're a Kenyan. I mean, even though I'm Indian by ethnicity, but the local people would realize just because of the values and the way I've grown up, the culture and the lifestyle is that they realize that I'm Kenyan. And so what I've realized with my leadership team and what we try to do in every country is make sure that roles that are very sensitive to understanding the culture, the lifestyle, the values in country, we make sure that those roles as much as possible are filled by local talent. I mean, I'll give you one very good example is HR. It's going to be very, very difficult for a Kenyan person, for example, you know, a Kenyan HR leader to try and start understanding and recruiting for leadership roles in India just because, yes, you'll have the job description, you have the key performance indicators, you know, you'll have the job description and everything that you want the person to do. But if you don't understand their DNA, you know, their makeup, right?

Right.

You know, what, what do they like doing outside work? It's going to be very difficult. And I'm actually starting to realize that, you know, HR is, you know, people talk about, okay, you know, you've got to find the best talent, you've got to find the best skillset, but actually getting to know your leadership team and getting comfortable with your leadership team is actually knowing them inside out because whether we like it or not, and you rightly said that I've been talking about the word global quite a bit, we are in an era where technology enables us to actually, or, and requires us to work much longer hours. And if, for example, I'm not able to realize that, let's say my group CFO is, just had a baby and, for example, maybe 7:00 to 9:00 PM, he's not going to be available. It makes it very difficult to coordinate our work stream. So I see what you're saying completely. And I think as much as there is this global phenomenon of, OK, we are connected by a single language and culture, which is technology, more importantly, there is still an element of localization within these markets that we must appreciate. You must let people who are comfortable with each other sometimes handle those sensitive roles to get the best outcome.

That's really a unique perspective. And I'm trying to wrap my head around how to best respond. I'm going to throw up like a challenge question here because, you know, so, and the same thing happens here in the States, right? There's various cultures here. And of course, we have a lot of people coming here from different parts of the world. It all boils down to the fact that we're dealing with people again, right? That you have to understand the person. You can train a lot of the technical aspects, but you need to understand the person as a human being. At the same time, what's the best way to say this? You have an impasse where there's efficiencies that need to be met, I guess is the best way to say it. And how do you manage that? How do you, like you just said, HR is a great example of it, right? How many times— I don't even like the term HR. I guess that's the root of the challenge. Human resource. Why don't we just call them people?

Sure.

You see what I'm saying? Do we distance ourselves with the process? I guess that's the best way to frame the question. Do we distance ourselves too much with this process? Because it sounds to me like you've navigated that pretty well.

Yeah, no, I see what you're saying. You know what I'm realizing, and actually, you know, this is something that I've been sitting back and thinking to myself around why global leaders, why, you know, the management consultants and the management gurus around the world are not talking more about this. Because the truth of the matter is, if you don't understand a person through all facets, you know, of, of life, it's going to be very difficult to understand exactly what their life path looks like. So, for example, If you only look into their career path, you ignore their social wants and aspirations, you ignore their family wants and aspirations, social community, et cetera.

Which are very much deeper motivations sometimes, right?

Exactly, exactly. And I find this, and you know, so when I look at my leadership team, I can tell you, for example, at least 3 things for all sort of 30, 40 of them, in each of those facets. And what that helps me do is, for example, if—

No, I'm laughing because I'll tell you what. I've worked with so many people, right, and leaders, CEOs of large companies. And they say they can't get to know their people. I say, how many people are your direct reports? They say 12. I say, come on. You can get to know 12 people. You're talking about 30. That's a pretty big number.

Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. No, no, you're absolutely right. You know, like, and when you When you actually get to know them, you actually, you know, you get into their comfort zone. They get more comfortable with you. And actually, more often than not, you find that things that would have never come out because they deem their relationship to be very professional, they actually start looking at you more like a colleague, a friend, and somebody that they can actually shed light, especially when things are tough, whether it's an emotional feeling. Amen. Yeah. You know, especially they just let it out to you and say, look, you know, The reason why you've seen that I'm not, you know, I haven't been who I really am, or I haven't been formed to my best over the last week, is because I've got this happening in my life, you know. And when you actually realize that, you say, okay, and you can actually relate it back to experiences in your life. And you actually realize, okay, fine, when that was going through, or when I was going through something like that, or what would it be, you know, like to go something, you know, through something like that, I wouldn't be at my top game, you know, I wouldn't be at my peak performance.

Right, right. Oh my God, no, absolutely. And the thing is, you know, sometimes I'm definitely not a lollipops and puppy dogs kind of guy. But there's an element of, you know, when we were talking about the humanistic side of leadership, sometimes people are cautious about the softness of it, if you want to use that word. I hate that word. But that's what's used, the soft skills, right?

Sure, sure.

But then when you say that, you hit on something so important. When the times are tough, and not just personally, right? I make the argument when people are questioning, and fortunately, they're doing this less and less, but if they question the value, for instance, what we're talking about now, what we share, you point to that. You say, okay, you can be a tyrant for so long. You can be sometimes a tyrant in a difficult time. Sometimes we want that. But at the end, I said, if you don't connect with those people that you're working with, and I hate to use the word employee except in a very technical sense. The people you're working with, the people you serve as a leader, if you don't connect with them when the times get tough, then what's going to happen, right? If you haven't shown compassion and caring for those people, where are they going to be when the times get tough?

No, absolutely. You're very right. You know, and you actually realize just by our nature as humans, we actually look for places of comfort, places of trust, places where we really feel we can just be ourselves on a blank canvas and nobody's going to be judgmental. And if you're able to, you know, be there for the people that really matter to you, I mean, this is just, you know, goes for work and, you know, outside work as well. I mean, you will find that when you or the company is going through something stressful, they will say, actually, hold on, you know what, I might not get a salary this month. It might be delayed for 2, 3 months, or I might have to take a pay cut for the next year. But you know what, these guys, I know when things, you know, get backed up, will look after my needs. I'm not just here like an 8-to-5 machine with a very predefined process that says that if I do this, I get X, if I achieve more than that, I get Y, and if I'm a star performer, I'm Z. But then I'm just part of a, you know, a big machine, and I'm just, you know, a cog that makes the whole system, you know, go by. So I'm starting to realize that you actually need to create an environment where you can be colleagues.

Yeah.

I'm not judgmental, for example. Sorry.

Yeah, no, no, right. You're absolutely right. I want to get a sound bite for people who with short attention spans. Okay. Obviously, you validated what we thought about when we invited you on the program. That you are one of the people that we want to hold up as an example, as a model for the way you should lead. And that your humanistic approach is so, you know, so to be admired, let's say. Let's ask a direct question. Your humanistic approach to leadership, has it helped your business or is it a detriment to your business?

Oh, it's helped my business greatly.

And how so? How could you— can you give us a couple of examples?

Sure. I have been able to identify people through them. So when, when my people know that they're secure, and the reason why we're recruiting for another role is we're actually expanding and not just trying to replace somebody. When you actually have a, a star performer go through a 6-month dip in their performance, when you actually sit them down and they actually say that, okay, you know, it's actually a social issue, when they sit down and say it's a family issue, when they sit down and say it's actually just the fact that I'm now getting bored, I need a bit more of a challenge. I know there's no vacancy in the organization, but I just need something more to do. I feel like I've done everything I can in this role. When you realize, even to a certain extent, when people are having problems with boyfriends, girlfriends, partners, spouses—

And that's inevitable.

Yeah, it is, right? No leader, entrepreneur, or executive can sit there and say, oh my God, how can that happen to you, right?

Well, it happens. Isn't that strange? I know when you hear somebody say, I've heard so many leaders say, you know, don't bring your personal life to work. And I always feed back to them. I say, don't you?

Yeah.

Doesn't it affect you?

Yeah. I mean, I'm sure if you asked employees of some of the biggest businesses about some of their most senior executives in that organization, they will tell you that this person went through this phase and we know exactly why. Oh, you don't know why, but there was something outside work that wasn't, you know?

Yeah.

So I think just detaching that emotional, or a person's emotions, and asking them to detach them and keep them at home while they're at work is never gonna happen, especially today where you're constantly connected with your loved ones, your family, your friends, you know, via all sorts of, you know, technology-enabled software and communication methods.

Right, or the flip side, right, when you're at home and the same connection with the technology back to your work, right?

Exactly, exactly. We can't go away.

We can't escape.

Yeah.

And honestly, I mean, you know, sort of my leadership team knows this. I mean, and everybody says technology should be making it easier. And, you know, it actually should help you, you know, sort of balance different facets of your life much better. But actually, the truth of the matter is, and I'm sure everybody knows this, is, you know, what technology is actually doing is giving you the opportunity, the choice, and sometimes not an opportunity or a choice to actually do more because you're available.

Yeah.

Yeah. 24/7.

Oh, isn't that the conundrum we have to work on the next few years, right? Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Listen, I want to give you plenty of time to talk about your Transforming Lives movement.

Sure, sure. Look, you know, I just sat back sort of and said to myself, okay, what is it that I really want to achieve? You know, so with my life, when everybody talks about legacy creation, and then I sat back to myself and said, you know, I thought about this and I said, look, I can only eat 3 to 6 meals a day in your case.

You'll understand when we meet. You'll see it. Around my belt.

Well, you know, whatever, whatever, whatever floats your boat. But like, you know, like, I'm, I'm with you because I eat mid-morning as well. You know, I have a snack mid-morning. I eat mid-afternoon as well. But like, look, you can only eat as many meals a day. You can only live in one house. You can only drive one car. You can only be in one country. And then you sort of sit back and realize, okay, when it's not a question of being able to buy anything you want What more do you do, you know, every day? Why do you work a 12-hour day every day? Why do you put yourself through those stresses, those emotions, those high-pressure situations? And you actually sit back and realize that, you know, there are some people that just realize and want to take responsibility to ensure that there is a sustainable future, you know, for future generations. I mean, the opportunity that I've been able to create with my life, all the experiences I've had, and The ability, for example, to lead over 3,000 people in 6 countries is something that's been a lot of hard work. It's something that has taken a lot out of me. But also on the flip side, I can see that people look to me. And if you just look at a rough multiplier effect, if 3,000 employees and just on average, if each of them had, say, 3 to 4 members in their family, you're talking 10,000, over 10,000 people that you you impact every day directly. And I think sharing my experiences and just letting people know what the journey is really like from a ground level perspective, rather than saying, okay, we looked at GDP and markets, we looked at the fastest growing sector by year-on-year growth, and just saying, actually, you know what, okay, that stuff is there, but actually it's all up to the individual in terms of the commitment in terms of, you know, waking up every day to make and create a huge impact in the lives of thousands of people. And that's what I'm passionate about today. When I get to work, I see, you know, thousands of people happy, satisfied, you know, the sense of belonging and feeling that we are part of a bigger movement. We are part of a success story. And we are very, very happy to be associated with all of it. Yes, there are things that could be better. I just think that I wish every leader just woke up and said, okay, fine, my bottom— and I actually tell people this, when your people are happy, when your teams are happy, the success, the bottom line results, and all your KPIs are a byproduct. You have happy people who are willing and understand your vision and willing to drive that forward with you. Nothing is unachievable. Nothing is impossible.

No, that's true. And you hit on so many important things. One of the things I wish more people would appreciate that, you know, that exactly what you said, that a leader like you impacts the lives of so many people that we should have gratitude that way. You know, we have somewhat of a stigma sometimes, and, you know, I understand it to a degree that, you know, so many corporate leaders are selfish or, you know, focus only on the bottom line and leave the humanity aside, but I'll tell you my experience when I hear that. In fact, I did a big event for a CEO group a couple of years ago, and I was so— I didn't even feel worthy to be in the room. I didn't come from that world, and I said that to them, and then I said, "Now I've got a question for you guys. Here's what I want to start with. Where are all these evil corporate robber barons that I keep reading about in the newspaper?" I said, "I'm here in this room. I've been with you guys for a couple days." You're all nice people and you care about the people that you serve, right? And I wish that vision had gotten out more.

No, absolutely. You're absolutely right. I think, you know, just to dwell on that a little bit more, you know, it's really being able to hit the emotional DNA of a person, really hit their emotional aspirations. Because a lot of times people say, but I've I've tried to explain how to do this 3 times to you and you still don't get it. But maybe we're missing the point and just, we have to realize that, okay, maybe they do know how to get it, but maybe it's not something that actually resonates with their emotional DNA. Maybe it's something they just don't want to do.

Ah, yeah.

Mm-hmm. Do you know what I'm saying? So, you know, and you just got to, I guess, pick that up and just realize, okay, fine, I need to understand this person a little bit better because they may have a mechanical engineering degree, for example, but they actually want to be in sales. Yeah, they love being in front of people, you know. And, um, yeah, so that's how I see it, you know. I think as leaders we've got to realize that, look, you know, we— the reason we've been successful is because the ecosystem around us is, is, is successful. We've been, we've been able to elevate it. But for that to continue happening, for you to— for your business to live, uh, past you, past your generation, into generation 3, 4, etc., um, for your legacy to live on for generations, you've actually got to be able to create a set of people that will do exactly what you're doing and have a multiplier effect, as we talked about, on millions of people across the world.

No, that's so important. If we define power as your ability or capacity to act or perform effectively, right? Then the only way a leader can become more powerful or effective is by empowering other people, right? Because we can't do it alone. Are we singing in harmony again, or is this something you would Agree or disagree?

No, no, no, I totally agree. And I'm actually realizing— sorry, no, I just wanted to add that, you know, I'm actually realizing that when we're looking for, um, people to fill leadership roles, yes, okay, obviously you look at the big— you look at the, you know, the, the, um, educational qualifications. Yeah, I have to look at their experience.

You do, right? Exactly.

Yeah, yeah. But then when you have 10 candidates who could fit that role, you actually look for chemistry. You actually look for similarity of thinking, similarity of being on the same wavelength. That chemistry that you know after 3 months, whether you're in that, for example, um, financial committee meeting or not, that person is actually going to make, uh, or, or think 90% like you would have done. And, and, and you would have been comfortable with that, you know, and they would have asked the same questions. They would have got the same information and made, you know, sort of a valid decision from that. So, I think it's becoming more— yes, technical skills are important, but I'm a big believer that it's becoming more about your chemistry, your ability to be on the same wavelength with your peers and your leadership team.

I can't think of a better lesson for leaders to leave this on than that one. That's it. That's good. But I do want to make sure, how do people, if you want people to get in touch with you, especially to learn more about Transforming Lives and the other things that you're involved with on that level, how do people get in touch with you? How do they find out more about you?

So I'm fairly active on, so actually I would say I'm active on social media. Look, I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on Twitter, I'm on Facebook. I'm on Instagram. And I don't think it's very hard to get a hold of me. I mean, I actually have full-time resources within my office that help me manage my social media.

Oh, I'm jealous now.

No, I know, I know. It's just one of those things. I'm traveling a lot often. When we always say technology doesn't work, it can be 2 days I could miss something important. But I love interacting with people. I mean, you won't believe. My experiences through LinkedIn and Twitter especially, I have had some of the most interesting people reach out to me. I mean, every country I go to, and as soon as I post either that I'm coming there or I'm here, I have at least 15, 20 people, you know, who want to reach out and meet. And I love it because I get to learn. I mean, you know, often people think that, like, even as an individual, there is no way that you could have reached the apex, you know, sort of your success. And just while we were talking about this, I just want to mention one example that I think is very, very interesting. If somebody sat back and looked at what Amazon did with Whole Foods, I mean, that is effectively a technology business that is, I mean, a global leader by such a magnitude, effectively went back and bought a business that's 10 steps behind it in the innovation circle. And Amazon could easily say, you know what, we can pick out and buy businesses from any part of our competition landscape. But even Amazon today would sit down and say, okay, yes, okay, success looks like this at this platform, but there's 100 other things that we need to improve on. And when leaders sit back as well, when you look at some of the most renowned leaders globally, I know, because I do it and we're growing for global standards, we're growing above every single measure. We are going at a rate faster than every single measure would determine. But we sit back every day and say, okay, look, but we have still got these 100 things to do. That is exactly what I mean by my Transforming Lives journey. When I get out there, and when I talk to these people, obviously, they are very excited to meet me and hear my story. But I am just as excited, if not more excited, to hear their story, hear from their perspective, what do things look like in this part of the world? What do things look like from your perspective.

Because success is not a destination, it's a continuous journey, right?

Exactly, exactly, exactly. There it is. But no, look, I would be really happy, you know, and I love meeting new people. I would love, you know, for everybody, you know, listening to this to, you know, to reach out to me if there's anything they want to discuss. I travel a lot, as you, you know, if you've seen my profile, I know the last 12 months I've been to probably, you know, 6 different places and I travel around. I'd love to connect with people Um, you know, if I'm in your part of town or your part of the world, um, please, so please look out, you know, for my social media pages. Please follow me on them.

Well, and, uh, you opened that door, so I, I hope we can, we can invite you back again, especially as the program is growing. And it's going to be an honor to meet you. I hope we meet in Kenya or when you come here. It'd be a pleasure to, to, uh, you know, to spend some time with you. And I hope we can access you again. You've You're very— I'll tell you, I don't say this very often because I don't want it to appear insincere, but I can't tell you how impressed I am and how grateful I am that you're an example of really what we're talking about. Somebody who really lives the idea that humanity is the most important part of leadership. So thank you so much.

No, thank you, Jim. That's very kind of you. And no, I definitely look forward to interacting more with you. And yeah, let's definitely meet, you know, in Kenya so I can take you out for 6 meals a day. That'd be something fantastic. And over each of those meals, discuss and expound on some of the topics we've talked about today. It'd be fantastic.

I accept cheerfully. Thank you so much.

Thanks, Jim. Thanks for your time.

Thanks for listening to Walking the Walk. Please share this episode. We encourage you to download and share the program with both experienced and aspiring leaders in your network. We also encourage you to suggest guests for future episodes. Complete information at walkingthewalkpodcast.com. Jim Bouchard is in high demand presenting keynotes and workshops for conference, corporate, and community audiences all over the world. To book Jim for your next event, meeting, or retreat, visit thatblackbeltguy.com or call Alexandra Armstrong at 207-751-4317.