031 Jared Nichols––Focus on the FUTURE!

Jared Nichols is a futurist. Now, I know that's not what I thought it was, and it might not be what you're thinking it is either, but let's find out how Jared can help you change your future and the future of your business on this episode of Walking the Walk.

Inspire, empower, and guide people to their very best. These are the people who are walking the walk. Your host, the original Sensei Leader, Jim Bouchard.

All right, Jared Nichols is a futurist, advisor, and faculty member at at the University of Tennessee's Haslam College of Business. That sounds pretty impressive already. In graduate and executive education, no less. He's the founder of the Foresight Academy, where he teaches leaders, teams, and individuals how to think like futurists so they can create the best future possible for themselves. And here's why I knew we were singing in harmony, the people they serve. So Jared holds a master's degree in strategic foresight. That's something I never heard of, so we're gonna ask him about that. And he's sought out by leaders, organizations, and entrepreneurs to help them identify how emerging trends in technology, media, business, and public policy may fundamentally change society and shape the future. That's a hell of a mouthful. So, okay, Jared, let's talk about the future.

Pressure's on, right?

After that, man, look at this resume. For God's sake, I'm jealous. I have alphabet deficiency syndrome, you know.

But you got it in like 20-point font, so it just like—

I need it. I don't have my reading glasses on.

Yeah. Oh man.

There we go. So tell us about that. What the hell do you do?

Man, that's a loaded question. In a nutshell, I teach teams and individuals how to think like futurists. And again, you know, I've always made the mistake of assuming that people know what a futurist or what, you know, kind of a common understanding of a futurist is, which I find more and more that's not the case. And so my, you know, my, my line of work is really more— my focus is on empowering people how to think strategically about the future, not just from a business perspective, but really considering the kind of legacy that they're creating and leaving behind, you know, just becoming more conscious of what we do right now and better understand the implications that that might have 5, 10, 15 years down the road. Of course, there's great business application to that, and we definitely dive into a lot of that. What I found over and over is that most people today, with things being so uncertain and not really knowing how to deal with the pace of change, the biggest concern that folks have is feeling like they're being left out of the, of the process, out of making decisions, out of creating the kind of future that they want to see. And so I've really changed my focus to empowering people and leaders first. Because, you know, these are leaders and people that run businesses that work in large organizations, or, you know, maybe they don't, maybe they just work for themselves. But at the end of the day, I've really come to the belief that more people need to learn how to think this way so we can create something we could be proud of. So our descendants don't hate us.

You know, that makes a lot of sense. But now, you knew you were stepping into it because first of all, you're talking to a martial arts guy and a student of Asian philosophy. So I'm going to throw some spooky stuff at you.

Alright.

But I'm going to ground it. I'm going to ground it. One of the biggest challenges we see in leadership today is people's inability to deal with that uncertainty you talked about, right? And how do we help people deal with that? And of course, the strongest leaders are very good at it because, you know, I do this every time I do a workshop. I ask the managers or the leaders there, I said, all right, you guys are all skilled executives. You guys all have some experience. What the hell is going to happen tomorrow? And the only answer is, I don't know, right? For sure. For sure. Right. But you do want to, As much as possible, you want to eliminate at least, I don't know if radical uncertainty is the right word, but manageable uncertainty? Is this part of what you're doing?

Yeah, yeah, I think that's a good way to look at it. First, let's go back a little bit here because I think there's this idea that people, that everybody, business leaders, individuals, that they want certainty. I just, I find no evidence of that. I mean, if you really just look at yourself, I mean, it's not like we can't make decisions until we have certainty. Nobody's ever had certainty.

Not successfully.

Instead what I've, yeah, exactly. That's right. Instead what I find is what people want is they want to participate in the actual creation of the future. They wanna participate in the decisions about the next, you know, the next stage in their life or their business. And when there's such uncertainty, in the environment, then they feel paralyzed. They feel like they can't make a good decision because they don't have the right intel. They're questioning everything they read or they just shut it down. They're overwhelmed because of all the information. So, you know, manageable uncertainty still in a way, if you frame it, it's still a little disempowering because it's, well, I'm just managing this. I can't do anything about it, but I can hold it at bay. Right. So, so I really try to bring folks around to understand that, you know, uncertainty and managing it is not the objective. I mean, you can do that through, you know, there's plenty of skills out there to help you manage and deal with stress and anxiety. My goal is really to help people understand a couple fundamental principles. The first is that when we're looking out into the future, the goal is never to predict the future. Now, I know this may sound a little strange coming from a futurist, right?

But no, no, that's important because that That's exactly what most people think of when they hear the word futurist, right? That you've got some crystal ball sort of skill, right?

That's exactly right. And that's the analogy. Where's the crystal ball? You know, and it's— and there are— there's folks out there that talk about how they can predict the future. And here's the fact: you cannot predict the future. And I mean, yes, you can get— sometimes you might be able to say this is probably going to happen and it does. But that doesn't mean you predict the future with certainty every single time.

And that's probability and certainty of two different things, right? And we say it a little more poetically. In the martial arts world, we say, "You wanna make the dragon laugh? Tell him your plans for tomorrow," right?

That's interesting, I like that.

Yeah.

Yeah, well, but, you know, so looking at that, it's, you know, if folks understand this, that our goal is not to predict the future so that we can make better decisions now, you know, the idea of, well, can I avoid disruption? Can I avoid uncertainty? Can I avoid the chaos? Because if we look at the idea of being able to predict the future, then we're also making the assumption that the future is already set in stone. Do you understand? So if the future is set in stone, then we can predict it. And if it's set in stone, there's nothing we can do about it. You see, we can't actually create something that is already created. So I try to move people from this mindset that the future is something that you can't do anything about. It's already set in stone. And the best thing to do is to prepare as much as you can for it so that you can weather the storm. And that, and that is not a message of hope. That's not a message that inspires people to really take action, to dream bigger, to do something more. Instead, what I try to reinforce with the folks that I work with is that the future is not even a real thing. I mean, if it actually arrives, it becomes the present, right? So, when we look at the future, we're talking about this space where there's numerous possibilities. And so, we have to move ourselves from this idea that somebody else is creating that future for us to the point of today we are creating the future whether we're consciously participating in it or we're just bystanders and hope for the best. So, getting people engaged to understand that the future is always out in front of us waiting to be created. That's a much more inspiring and uplifting message that actually moves people to action. But, we back that up with real tools and techniques and strategies that we've been trained for. Right, right.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I'm going to throw away the trap questions now because we're singing in harmony. I knew we were going to be. You must read a lot of Lao Tzu. The, what is it? The future's but a dream, the past a memory, the only lasting thing is the present moment, right? And this is where we have to strap it on and get going. But here's the thing, so many people, and I feel this from time to time too, I'm kind of a research junkie, and there's so much information out there. And when you talked about somebody who thinks they have an absolute certainty about the future, we have a name for those folks. They work for CNN and Fox, they're called experts, right? Contributors, right? And especially in business and finance, these people that come down and they say this is what's going to happen. And now, you know, I lived, I survived through 2008 meltdown when I was making investments based on what these geniuses were saying, right? And they drained my bank account, my investment account. So, so I got to be pretty skeptical about it, but not everybody is. I mean, a lot of the folks, a lot of leaders we work with, you know, they're trying real hard, they're getting all this input and they don't know how to select it, you know what I mean? Who's got the best track? Are there some tells that give you some information about who can provide the best insight to what's gonna happen?

Yeah, well, I can't, I would say this is—

I don't know if it's a tough one, isn't it?

Well, I wanna answer the question in the best possible way. I mean, I can't point to like, oh, follow this guy or follow that. That gal, and they're all on top of it. What I would say is that, you know, to look out for and listen for things, or anybody that uses the words always, never, impossible, you know, very definitive, certain words, you should absolutely question it. And this is a big part of what I teach folks as well, is understanding narratives, understanding the story behind the story. You know, the problem with predictions is that, you know, besides the fact that prediction, you know, gives the idea that it's set in stone. There's nothing you could do about it. The problem with it is that too many people are relying on it. That's in every part of our life. Like you use the financial industry as a great resource or as a great reference. But we see that even with the weather, with housing, with whatever it is, we're going on the predictions of experts. And again, I always wanna throw out there too that I am not in the business of disparaging experts. I'm an expert in my field, right? No, no, right, I understand. Gladly say, hey, don't take my word for it. Here's what I think might actually happen and what, you know, what we can do about that. But I want you to know how to think this way as well, because I love to be challenged. I, you know, we need more, uh, we need more brainpower, we need more people being involved in that process. So, uh, you know, with that, and, and I want to jump to the financial industry. I've, I've got a really good friend who works, uh, in investments. He's an analyst, and he shared with me a while back that if he gets 40% of his projections correct for that year, then he gets 100% of his bonus.

Yeah, yeah.

And that's huge, right? That's the biggest part of their income. And again, I'm not here to disparage the financial industry at all. I have a lot of friends that work in that field, but I just want to show this, this picture here. So if he gets 40% correct, he gets 100% of his bonus. But how many people are out there making 100% of their their decisions based on his projections. And his incentives are less than 50% of getting those things, his predictions right. And so I think this is what I really see is that people have to be more empowered to think critically and creatively and know what kind of questions they need to ask and start to question dominant narratives that we see in our world today about how the world works and where we think it's going.

I think you hit some key words too. Again, we're singing in harmony, where when somebody is using words like always, definitely, most of the time, especially in business and finance, I found that the people who are using those words are usually sponsored. They have a different agenda. They're pushing a particular line of thinking or a particular product, whereas people who will talk about probability are usually more reliable. And you use the analogy of a meteorologist, a weather person. It's interesting because most of it, I think this has a parallel in business. I used to work at a TV station in a past life too, and I remember the weather people saying this. When they say it's a 60% chance of rain, that doesn't mean, yeah, it's probably not going to rain. It means that out of 10 days, 6 of those days that look like this day, 6 of the times it's going to rain and 4 of the times it's not. And we don't know, right? It's a roll of the dice which one's going to show up this time. So, you know, I think a lot of people, especially when they're struggling with, you know, how do we plan for the future, they have a very poor understanding of probability, right? Is that a reasonable assumption? I assume that's something that you're probably working on helping people understand.

Yeah, probability is definitely a part of that. I mean, you know, and I wanna fully recognize we have some amazing tools and, you know, like big data. There's so much information that we can leverage. The problem is, is though, we don't know how to leverage it in a way that's constructive. We're still operating like it's 1995 in a number of ways. You know, the change—

You say that like it was so long ago, you just scared the hell out of me. That was like last week for me. I'm old.

Yeah, that's right. When I think about this, like '95, no, that wasn't that long ago. I was like, no, actually that, uh, wow, that was a while back. But we're still operating in that, in that kind of fashion. Technology and information is moving so quickly that We're really struggling to keep up. I mean, our brains are still wired like they were, you know, 50,000 years ago, right? I mean, you know, we're wired for hunting and gathering. We're not mature enough to handle the explosion of technology and information that's out there. We're creating so much data.

Thank you. I'm going to steal that. I love the way you just said that.

Well, yeah, I, you know, this— that's the big problem that we deal with. It's not that, oh, people— well, if people just learn how to understand probability, everything would be fine. No. We have to look at it in a bigger context. Yes, we need to understand probability, but that comes from critical thinking. I think the big problem that we see today is that folks have become so overwhelmed with just the bombardment of information, of advertising, of, you know, I mean, your attention is so valuable. That's, that's what's really what everybody is after. We're all after attention. I mean, even in our businesses, Jim, I mean, we're, you know, we put things out there because we're trying to grab attention, which is a which is a very valuable thing. But, you know, being bombarded with that, we just start to shut down if we don't know how to make sense of it, if we don't know how to filter it, if we don't have a clear, you know, objective that we are going after as individuals, then we feel like we're just being tossed around in a rough sea.

Right.

So, you know, probability is one element of that. But before that, we have to first recognize that We have to learn how to think critically again. We have to learn how to question things. Really just take that active role and say, "What is it and where is it that I'm trying to go and what is it that I'm trying to leave behind?" Once we answer those questions, it's amazing how clear all this other stuff gets. Right. Because we start to utilize tools because technology is just a tool. We start to utilize these things as tools as opposed to, "Well, let's utilize this tool because everybody else is and I don't know what it's going to do for me." No, and you know what?

One of the best tools is skepticism. It's funny because a very dear friend of mine who's, let's say she's a lot more into the, oh, how should we say this? Esoteric, new agey kind of thinking than I am. She said to me, she said, you know, you're such a skeptic that I don't understand because I don't think of you as a closed-minded person. I said, well, that's not what skepticism is about. It's not about being closed-minded. It's about questioning. I'm doing this to learn. When I'm asking you questions, it's to learn. It's not to try to, you know, forward a particular agenda or solidify a point. It's right, this is how we learn. Yeah, you said the critical thinking. So why is that so difficult for us, especially, I think, especially here in the States? I don't know. I mean, I, I see so, so many similarities around the world, but boy, we have a hard time with that here. You know, we fight it, we complain about it, all this information, fake news, blah blah, and yet we devour it, right, willingly.

Yeah, you know, I think the big reason for that is that— well, I think it's twofold. It's probably more like three or fourfold, but let's just try and just do two here.

You have the credentials. You can go fourfold. But help me out. Help the twofold.

I'm going to burn too many calories in my brain.

There you go.

So the first is that I think, at least in the United States, we're such a young country. That we're really immature as a country. We're immature as a nation, as a culture, because we, we don't— yeah, as a culture, you know, there's some amazing things about it for sure. And but we're still very young on the world stage. So I do believe we're at a, at a point where we're having to mature or grow into that next phase of our life. And there's a lot of big questions that we have to answer. But that also means there's a lot of dominant narratives that continue on that have been a part of our culture for so long that are going unquestioned. And when they go unquestioned, it's easier to divide us into camps. Which narrative do you believe? You know, it's, it's either the narrative about— and again, these are very dominant. So the narrative about where we should be going, you know, whether that should be going forward and what does that look like, or where are we now and how do we recover what we think we've lost? You know, so you've got a future-facing narrative and you've got a past-facing narrative. And these two things are at war with each other. And so depending on where you fall in that spectrum, We— it's easier for folks to let somebody else do the thinking for them. And again, I fully recognize that we are busy all day long. We're bombarded with so much. I'm not saying, well, if, you know, if people would just stop and, you know, use their brains, right? It's easy to throw something out like that. But this is a real problem that we are facing right now. We have outsourced our critical thinking and our own agency to participate in the future direction, not just of our country, but of —of our lives, our own lives, in our own lives. That's exactly right. Yeah. And so we're letting, we're letting these dominant narratives determine what we believe, what we feel, how that shapes us. And it impacts us in ways that are far larger than most of us are even conceiving right now. Take this, for example, Jim. Like, we all stop for a second and we say to ourselves, 20 years from now, if I look back at my life and the different areas of my life, what am I going to be most proud of? Right. What am I leaving behind? What is it that, that I'm doing today that is building towards something that goes beyond me, that where my kids and my grandkids look back and go, man, I'm so glad that my grandfather or grandmother took this path. Right. Those are the kinds of questions we need to ask, because right now, at least collectively, when we turn our brains off and we let somebody else create that kind of future for us, there's a good chance that our descendants are going to look back and say, what a bunch of assholes. These guys didn't think about anybody but themselves. And that's the way that a lot of us are acting. We're closing down. We're trying to protect and maintain, and we're not really focused on growth and transformation. But you kind of look at those in two different areas. When we think about the future, you've got a category of, well, I have a goal for the future, and thinking about the future is so I can protect what I have and maintain what I have. But then there's the other side, you know, and I think you and I, we've really connected on this as well, and some of our mutual friends is, is I'm really interested in growth and transformation. How can I continuously push myself until there's just nothing left of me, you know, and that's when my time is up, but it's actually made a bigger impact. And so we need to move from one to the other.

And that, you know, that leads us to a very important problem that comes up all the time with leaders in our workshops. You know, we emphasize the idea of of empowerment, right? That if you want to be successful, especially because all— because of all the things you just hit on, you know, I mean, John P. Kotter wrote an interesting piece about this where any, any organization that isn't growing— and he's not talking about in scale necessarily— but anybody who's not learning, growing, developing, business or an individual, is dying. It's just the rate that's at question, right? And we know now, um, I don't know, I've been saying this, feel free to disagree, You know, this age of command and control leadership, which is left over from the industrial age, is dying. It doesn't work anymore. People want to be part of what you're talking about, a bigger purpose, something bigger than myself. And this is at all levels. So, you know, enlightened leaders really focus on empowering people. And, you know, how do we, again, you know, what do you have for advice to overcome that inertia that we have, right? Because people have to be willing to, and that's the other thing. Sometimes, you know, people will challenge me that, well, so-and-so, doesn't want to do a development program. They don't want a training program. Okay, fine. Get rid of them. Probably not part of your vision at that point, right? Right. So, but it is a challenge. It is a challenge.

Yeah. Yeah. So I look at it in a couple of ways here. One, so going back to that, you know, that heavy-handed command and control from the industrial age, this would fall in that protect and maintain category, right? Right. It's a throwback to what we had, the way things were. So it's a type of leadership that fit the context of the past. Well, you know, since—

and it works pretty good, to be fair. And it still does in very, very narrow lanes, but not, you know. Yeah. Well, absolutely.

You know, and here's the reason why as well, because we have this hierarchy, this top-down hierarchy, and all that is based around information. So it all comes back to information, all comes back to our access to information. The same with the university system. This is why universities are failing. This is why, you know, they are, you know, continuously having to raise their tuition on top of obviously policy, you know, state funding being cut and all kinds of other things. But, but in the end, I see so many universities that are focusing on trying to protect and maintain what they have and, and they're losing that narrative. So it all comes back to information. So think about it this way. I want to give you an image to work with here. When you think about the difference between the past and the present day and how we make decisions. The way in which we make decisions is the same. The elements or the system or the flow of that is a little different. And it starts first and foremost with our access to information. So you think about throughout human history, access to information, well, that was like gold. And so you had to work yourself up or be in a certain class, whether— Right. That's why the Middle Ages folks went off to the monasteries. Mm-hmm. So they could learn how to read. I mean, learning how to read was a big deal. Information. You look at the university systems, I mean, throughout since ancient Greece, right? I mean, universities, this passing down of wisdom and knowledge, this was the passing down of information.

This was the passing down— And, it was a privilege, right? It was a privilege.

Absolutely, it's a privilege. Yeah. All the way up into the 20th century. I mean, back, let's go 1995, right? I mean, we're still— this is you are being given the opportunity to learn something from somebody who has excelled, has greater information, greater knowledge than you, and it's being passed down. It's very systematic and structured. So it starts with our access to information. So that is limited, again, limited compared to today. If that is limited, then that makes it easier to interpret that information. So we're not all debating like, well, what does this information actually mean? Is it fake? Is it real? Is it, you know, what we're dealing with right now? It's so you have access to information, you have the interpretation of that information, Now, when it gets interpreted, there will be descending views for sure. You'll probably have one or two sides of the issue. But then once that information is interpreted, it can be integrated into a narrative. So access, interpretation, and then integration. Now, the difference today is that we have seemingly endless ways to obtain information, right? Tons of it. Right. So our access to information now just seems to be— it's whenever you want it. It's literally at your fingertips. Which then makes it very difficult to interpret what that information needs. Head-spinningly difficult. And then that results in multiple integrations into whatever narrative you want to create or spin. And it leaves folks feeling disempowered, unable to make decisions, unable to really see how this affects them and what this means for their future. And so it forces people back into this protect and maintain category. Right. So, the goal really for, you know, when you're talking about folks saying, "Hey, how should we move forward into the future?" Well, if you're overwhelmed and stressed, you're going to do what you've always done because that's what you know how to do. Understandably. Yeah. And folks would much rather do something rather than nothing because again, that goes back to our dominant narratives of our culture in America, right? Well, you know, like the whole idea, you know, Ben Franklin is— well, it's been attributed to him, but God helps those that help themselves. So we have this Protestant work ethic, these all these kind of narratives that have been tied into this is how we do. We pull ourselves up from the bootstraps. Well, you know, a lot of these narratives are bullshit. They're really not founded on actual fact and data, but we still hold on to them. So we have all these competing narratives that are ripping us apart. And if we don't know how to make sense of it, we're just going to do what we're comfortable with because we better do something rather than nothing, even if that something is driving us straight into the ground.

Now this goes to the heart of, I think, what you're trying to do here, or what you are doing. The average person, sure, has the luxury, right, of recoiling from that. And we're seeing that, that people, you know, are not reading as much, right? The information that they are taking in is really— and I have nothing against entertainment, believe me, you know. Yeah. But, you know, it's really not productive information. A lot of it's just outright useless. I'm sorry. You know, the whatever wives of whatever city, just screw it. It's not right. But leaders don't have that luxury, especially right as their companies are growing and developing and trying to keep up with this pace that we have. And you hit it early. I mean, the pace that we're moving at right now is unprecedented and it's accelerating. That's right. So, you know, how do you guide leaders or what process do you inform them with to help them sort this out and help them keep that productive mindset, right? That I want to be focused on the future. And if I'm hearing you right, if I'm focused on the future, I better damn well be taking care of what's going on here and now.

Is that fair? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this idea, and I think this is where a lot of folks move away from thinking about the future. One, because it's very overwhelming if you don't know how to do it the right way. But two is because it's like, well, I've got problems today. Right. So why should I think about the future? You want me to think about things I'm gonna do in the future? I don't even know what the future is going to be. So they write it off. But, but here's the reality is that the future— looking at the future is absolutely useless beyond entertainment if we can't leverage that information in the present day. So, you know, simply stated, my goal in the work that I do with people to help leaders move to that place is to really emphasize and then teach them how to think about the future, not what to think about the future. Because when we're relying on, you know, like the expert predictions and again, and I give complete— it has value, but it has to be measured, right? There's absolutely value in there, right? I mean, it gives you a baseline, but there's some amazing folks out there, inventors, scientists, other futurists that are really looking at things in a unique way. But what I really try to tell folks is they're telling you what to think about the future. But they're not telling you how to think about the future. You know, the whole, you know, teach a man to fish, he can eat for a week. Give him a fish, he eats for a day. It's the same concept. So helping them move from where they are now to where they want to be, a big part of that starts in what I call the 4 Cs of creating the future. And the very first is you have to be conscious, right? You have to know where you are, where you are at this unique moment in time. You have to be able to look around and understand dominant narratives. Like we've been talking about already, how we make our decisions, what has changed. We have to get introspective in a number of ways. We have to look at not just the dominant narratives that are driving and shaping our country or our society. Amen. Yeah, we gotta look at the dominant narratives that have shaped us as people, right? And then we have to also tie all that back in and understand how do we look at predictions? How do we look at the narratives behind these predictions? And then of course, Putting all that together to move from a place of being overwhelmed by information to leveraging information to bring you new insight to allow you to truly get ahead of change and disruption, but not just that, but to help to shape and guide it. So, that's the first of the C's is conscious. The next one is curious. And, that really gets down into once you're conscious and you're aware of what's going around not just externally but internally, You can start to ask questions because you're no longer trying to protect the narrative that maybe you knew or didn't know was driving or shaping your life. You start asking questions, questioning things that other people are afraid to question. You start digging for information. You start, you know, really laying the foundation of the kind of future that you want to see. You're going beyond just that protect and maintain to really moving into growing and transforming from, you know, from being curious, then you can really start to be creative. Again, it's like a process. You know, there's conscious, you're curious, and now you can really get creative. You can start putting those things into action. You can start anticipating how the future might unfold in, you know, 3 or 4 different ways. And again, you're not saying it's going to be one of these. It'll probably be a mix.

But you can be prepared for several of them. Absolutely right.

So most people right now are, well, I have to, you know, either throw everything in and I've got a 50/50 chance that I'll survive. How great would it be to say over the next 5, 10, 15 years, these 4 types of futures may unfold because you've learned how to do this, you've questioned things, and you can make incremental investments into how and where your company, your life, your business, how that may transform. And so from there, you're really starting to position yourself in the present day to be ready for multiple future possibilities. And not just that, you know, it's not like, okay, well, I'm ready for those now, I'm good, now what? It's to say, what kind of future do I want to see? Because if you can anticipate these things might actually happen, then you can start to shift or start the conversation in the direction you want it to be. And then from there, you know, really being able to look out and see and you can step back. The last C is collaborative. And that is because the future cannot be created by ourselves. We have to do it together. We are biologically wired to build and work together, to work together as a unit. This challenges one of the major dominant narratives in our country here in the United States, which is I pull myself up by the bootstraps. Bullshit. That has been categorically disproven many times over, is that all of us have relied on other people in one way or another to actually get where we are today. I look back and people say, oh, you've done so much. I say, let me show you 300 people that have helped me get there.

Yeah, no, I agree with you. I mean, that's one of the most misunderstood, and you went right to the source because he's one— I have the Ben Franklin action figure over here on the wall. That idea that— are you sure you're not a black belt? I didn't ask you that before because you sure as hell talking like one.

No, are you talking about like actually in martial arts?

Well, because the idea of that, that idea of individualism, which is such a powerful idea, it along with that, right, our culture, our Western culture looks too much in terms of black and white strict lines, right? Yeah. You know, I love the Asian, uh, model of that yin and yang symbol, the taiji symbol, the one swimming into the other. That's what it's all about. Yes, individual is important. I'm the— I am a bootstraps guy, unabashedly so. But for me to pull myself up by the bootstraps, I need a hell of a lot of help, you know. And absolutely, especially the masters that helped me along the way, the people who give me insights, my peers. We say it all the time in fighting arts, you know, I, I'm, I'm nothing without my opponent, right? That's right. What is it, the other one, more poetic? The warrior is only tested by the metal of his opponent. So you have to find good opponents. They're part of your success, right? So yeah, no, again, I think we're singing in harmony. Hey, you know what? We just, we shot through a half hour. So you're going to stick with me for a couple minutes afterwards. I have some questions for you. One of them will be, when can we have you on again?

Oh, yes. I passed the test. Right?

But that, oh no, absolutely. My God. I've got a— now I've got a list of questions here. So as we wrap things up though, I want to make sure— I know people can get your new ebook when they land on your website, right? Why don't you tell them how to find you and we'll point them in your direction.

Yeah, you know, actually what I think— and it's funny, Jim, so you and I have— when we first met, you've actually met me in the middle of a reinvention for myself here. So the ebook is certainly fine. Folks can absolutely go on the site. It's The New Futurist. Jarednickelsgroup.com, and they can— it's right there, you can get a free copy of that. But, uh, I'm really overhauling a lot of the content and the messaging that has been in my materials.

You're walking the walk, you're practicing what you preach.

Well, you know, I mean, even like my tagline, you know, but used to be the Jared Nichols Group, then tagline was empowering organizations to shape the future. But this whole breakthrough of everything that I've gone through is really, you know, focused on empowering people to shape the future, because at the end of the day that's what really matters. And so, certainly, they can get the ebook. They can find me at the website there. But, the big thing is the Foresight Academy that we're going to be launching pretty soon. That's really what dives into those 4 Cs, teaches people how to think like a futurist. And then, the University of Tennessee is issuing certificates in foresight. So, that's cool. Some people are like, "Yeah, who cares?" Right? They can—

That's pretty amazing.

But, yeah. And so, yeah, if you have anybody that's interested in that, absolutely be happy to make sure there's a link for you to— to share on that. But, yeah, I'm interested in meeting more folks that are wanting to think this way. And also, let me just add this here too. I think this is important for your listeners, and that is that being a futurist or a new futurist is not about me. It's not about going and getting a degree in something. There are so many of us that are already creating the future in new and exciting ways. You may actually be one and you don't even realize it. The key tenet of that is that you are looking out and beyond and your goal and your focus is the investment into people. How are you empowering more people to take control of the direction of their lives? If you're doing that in any form or fashion or any sector, you are a new futurist.

That is a perfect way to wrap it up. And you just defined the type of leader that we're trying to help people become. Absolutely. Awesome. Jared, thank you so much. Thank you.

This is great.

Keynotes, workshops, retreats, webinars, and ongoing training. Each program customized to your unique needs, interests, goals, and budget. Inspire, empower, and guide people to their very best. Learn more about Jim Bouchard and The Sensei Leader at thesenseileader.com.