054 Ruben Crawford - Empowertale––Lessons from the Ring

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One of the core philosophies in the Sensei Leader Movement is the idea that personal development and professional development are inseparable. If you want to be a better leader, work always on becoming a better person. Well, today's guest exemplifies this ideal. Reuben Crawford learned how to combine his athletic development with his business development, and now he shares that process to help leaders succeed.

People who inspire, empower, and guide us to our very best. Leaders who are walking the walk. Your host, leadership activist, author, and founder of the Sensei Leader Movement, Jim Bouchard.

You know, it's always fun to welcome martial artists to the program, and Reuben Crawford is an MMA fighter with, and I hope we got our stats up to date, a record of 16-4 with 4 knockouts and 8 submissions. That means he's a pretty tough dude. Now these days, Ruben is translating what he learned in the ring and how he developed as an athlete to help business leaders succeed. And Ruben, you know, I always like to know, what's the most important lesson you learned as a fighter that can most directly help leaders today?

Yeah, hey, so I'd say the number one thing is really to never give up, I'd say, because times do get tough and sometimes you might think you want to give up, but to never really throw in the towel, I'd say that's my number one takeaway from that whole fighting realm.

Right, I remember the old fortune cookie they used to teach us, knock down 7 times, get up 8, right? Some days it's tough to get off the mat, isn't it?

That's it, that's it, and I guess in martial arts you really learn that it's part of the process. And that failing is not failing on its own, but it's failing upwards, and you keep getting better every time you fail and you learn from it, and that's what my coach, John Kavanagh, really gave me with him and what I learned from him.

Why are people so uncomfortable with that these days? Have we just become adverse to failure? Did we take a couple generations and just get them scared of the word? Because to me, I agree with you 100%. It's funny because, again, so much fun talking to a fighter. One of my trainers when I was boxing used to always say, usually when my face was all mashed up, he'd say, "Jim, don't worry about it. You learn more when you lose." Of course, then he'd walk away and he'd turn around and say, "Some days you don't freaking feel like learning anything, right?" But it seems to me we've really gotten away from that idea that when you're really taking the hard knocks, if you're willing to wring the lessons out of them, that's where the most valuable lessons are, aren't they?

That's what it is. It's winning or learning. And specifically, when you get knocked down and when you get back up and when you learn that process over and over again and you get to know that process, you know that nothing really can put you down in the long run. And that's what it's all about, because leadership is an infinite game and it's not about winning one time. And that's it. It's about making it work in the long term, and that's only really possible if you learn to lose, get your lessons from it, and implement that, get better through that process.

Now, what I also found fascinating, you have a psychology background too, right?

Yeah, that's right. So martial arts, my professional career was never my only stance, and I straight away looked at it from, yeah, trying to apply the things that I learned during my studies and really put them to a test in the ring. And I really felt like it went hand in hand and you really can't fragmentize one from the other. So I did learn psychology and the backgrounds of it on bachelor and master level, but then I put what I learned to the test in the ring. And that was really where I found out what works and what doesn't.

You know, that's the cool thing too, and a lot of folks don't realize that professional fighting, it's tough to get rich as a professional fighter, right? So most of the fighters I've ever known, you have something else going on, at least at some point you turn to that. And you know, what you just said, and I said this before we started talking today, you know, that idea that personal development and professional development are really inseparable, aren't they? And you're really exemplifying that. The ring as a lab for the stuff that you were working on with the mind-body stuff, and I'm sure vice versa too. How do you help people, because I know, again, we should say you're a coach and consultant. We'll give some more information about that soon, but how do you help people realize that everything they do for themselves personally, and let's take some low-hanging fruit. I'm sure you've had clients that are also studying martial arts or boxing or fighting. How do you help them translate those lessons to their business life and their personal life?

Yeah, so I really think that you can't look at business from only the business and from the strategic perspective. How you show up as a leader in your everyday life is extremely influenced by the stand that you have and the picture that you have of yourself. And you have to build that outside the office. Leaders aren't made at a desk, I always like to say. And so what I do is I kind of help leaders attach what they do to their purpose. So a lot of leaders I found aren't really doing or aren't really reflecting in their actions 100% what their purpose and what their values are. But by really learning about yourself in these extreme situations, when you're training yourself to the best of your abilities, also physically, you kind of reattach to what's most important to you and you find out about yourself, you learn about yourself and you realize that sometimes you took a path that didn't really lead you to where your real values are at, if that makes sense.

No, it does, but see, that's a tough thing, isn't it sometimes? And in the spirit of full disclosure, people who listen to the program frequently understand that My past, and the reason I got into martial arts really was part of my drug recovery. When I was a young guy, I had a pretty good go around with drugs for a few years. And then I learned through martial arts, one of the things that helped me start to recognize my value and my worth was the recognition that's built in, right? As fighters, as martial artists, if you're in a conventional martial arts system, I hate that term, but for lack of a better one, you might be recognized with belts or ranks. As an MMA fighter, you're recognized with championships, right, and accolades. But sometimes in the business world, man, you can be taking a lot of knocks, you can be doing a lot of good things right, and not many people are noticing it, right? How do you help people really understand their value, understand that, you know, their work does mean something?

Yeah, so I think what's really important is to assess your situation and your stance where you're at right now. And so And what I do with new clients that I take on is I really take my time in assessing where they're at. So I do several performance assessments, cardio, muscular, and psychometric assessment. And then I ask them to do a mission statement and also a visualization of where they want to go. And then what I do is I look at how does that mission statement and that visualization of the future, how does that work together, and how can we use the assessments, what we found out about where that person is at that moment, how can we use that to create a roadmap to get them where they want to be. So a lot of times we forget as leaders about how important it is to really see where you're at and where you want to go. So often you're just driven by the KPIs that your business kind of is defined by, but we sometimes forget about defining our own KPIs and what's really important to us as a leader and also what's important to the team.

Well, there's the disconnect too, isn't it? So often, I mean, when we do our executive workshops, our C-suite workshops, it's really interesting because one of the things I hear from top executives almost more than anything else is just that idea that, you know what, I don't know if people get me, they don't know if they get what I'm trying to do here. I don't know if they appreciate me, you know, some days. And I think that's natural. I mean, you know, there is a little bit of that, that silent distance, I guess, as much as we try to dispel that. But again, you know, how do we help people through that process and understand that they have value? And part of that, I think, is that disconnect. I think if I'm hearing you right, you were talking about really accurate self-awareness, right? That my own perception as a leader is in alignment with the way other people see me. Am I way off base, or are we kind of singing in harmony there?

No, I, I think you're right. But what I also find very important is the alignment between my own values as a leader and the alignment to that alignment to the company's values.

Yeah, that's essential, right?

To the company's mission statement. Because so often you're asked to put out your mission statement in complete alignment with the company's, or even define your mission statement as the same thing as the company's. But what I think is very important is to be really honest about what mission you are on as a leader, and to then check for the overlap that it has with the company's vision, and also being honest about where it doesn't overlap. And really find honest way how to deal with that.

That can lead us to trouble, can't it? Because so often— and here's the thing, caveat disclaimer, I always have to throw this out there— you know, when people question the human-centric values that we preach around here, sometimes someone says, "Well, you know, I know this greedy jerk who's, you know, he's making it." I said, "Well, you know, can't argue that. I mean, really lousy people can be successful in certain areas for a certain amount of time, but I challenge you to show me too many that can sustain that success or can do it with preserving their health and their well-being in the long run. Most of them end up as psychotics, right, or depressed people. But the other side of it is, like you said, if your values aren't in alignment, and that's a challenge in a lot of organizations today. I don't think too many people enter a leadership position thinking, yeah, I'm going to— way different place than this organization. But later on you might find that you are, right? That you're in the wrong spot. How do you help people manage that? Because, you know, once you're entrenched or once you're, you know, and if you're dependent on the benefits that you're getting there, it's hard to extract yourself, right?

Exactly. So I mean, it's, it's, I wouldn't really say it's necessarily the wrong space that you're at if you find yourself having, having some different values than the company's values. I think it's about separating between a mission statement that you're doing for the moment and between that and the larger vision of where you're trying to head towards. And really seeing where— if where you're at right now, if that fits into the long-term plan, and then realizing when you might divert or when you have to divert and maybe seek some other opportunities. So it's really not black and white here, I would say, but it's very important to be honest about it, I think.

No, I think I hear what you're saying, and really what came to mind when I was thinking about that and when listening to you was, for instance, what's happened at Volkswagen, what's happened at Wells Fargo in the last couple of years, and how, you know, you hear stories of people that, you know, the executives that say, you know, I knew something lousy was going on, I knew I wasn't in the right place, but I stayed anyway. And then we're back to that theme of personal and professional life being inseparable. If you're in a truly unethical or a truly lousy situation, it doesn't really help anybody for you to stay there very long, does it?

Exactly. And I think what's really important to consider is who is the contractor of the coaching. Because I don't, for example, work with companies who try to get their KPIs up by, by getting an executive coach engaged. I work with people who come to me first, so I address the leaders and their needs first. And from there you can see how that helps the company. But I really think it's problematic if you do it the other way around and if you put the company's organisations' gain before the person's gain.

Right. No, I agree with you 100% and the best organisations don't do that. They put their people first.

Exactly. Exactly.

Yeah, there's the challenge, right?

Yeah. I mean, it's not all that easy.

No, simple, not easy most of the time, huh? Yeah. So what's the— this is always fascinating to me too, you know. With your life, with your training, personally, this is really a personal question, what's the one thing you think benefited you so much as an athlete that moved you ahead as an athlete that now you're taking into your business life?

Yeah, so as I said, it's definitely failing upwards, so that's one of the major points. And then also really to prioritize my energy levels. So what I found when I made the switch, when fighting wasn't my number one priority anymore, but business became it, I found that there was not really any validated process to control my energy levels and to enter into a high performance state because that was what I spent all my time doing basically in being a professional athlete. I tried to be in the most high-performing state possible. And then when I made the switch and I knew all my tasks that I had to do to get my business running and to have it succeed, but one level deeper, there was no one really to help me out in creating that energy that I needed for that in the first place. And that was also what my business was based on at that moment. That I found that out, that really no one could provide that for me. So I went in and did it myself, basically.

Yeah, yeah. I can, I hear you on that one. Ruben, we're going to take a quick break, and when we come back, I want to pick that up again, and that idea of how do we find that next mentor, how do we find somebody to help you out, okay?

Perfect.

All right, we'll be back in just a couple seconds with Ruben Crawford.

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As a purpose-driven leader, you're embarking on a huge new business venture unlike anything you've dared before. Stakes are high and the pressure rises, and you realize to make it to the next level, you need to go back to the roots first. Fully prepare your body and mind to fight for your vision. EmpowerTail performance coaching puts power behind your purpose. Conor McGregor's teammate Reuben Crawford, MMA fighter and Germany's former number one, gets you fight ready in mind and body to reach the top of your industry. Build invincible confidence to win your business championship. You'll find Reuben Crawford at EmpowerTail.com. That's empowertail.com.

Reuben, before the break, we were talking— you were talking about, you know, that sense of sometimes— and I think we all feel like that from time to time, especially, you know, it's weird, we have this little saying sometimes, probably every workshop end up saying this, they say it's lonely at the top, but it really shouldn't be, right? Now you're operating as a coach, and I know as a fighter you always had coaches and trainers around you. How do you find now who to help you? Does that make sense? Did I say that right?

Yeah, no, that's exactly it.

Because we all need that, right? We all need that next coach, that next mentor.

That's exactly the question. And I still have to say I did not find myself a coach who I could trust with my energy levels. I did find several coaches who could help me with, yes, specific strategies, but no one really who could build the basics for me, build the foundations of my physical and my mental energy levels. Because in business, it's just as important as it is in fighting to feel on top of the world when you step into a meeting, for example. It's literally the same as when you step into the octagon. Amen. Yeah, I really didn't find anyone who could provide this for me in the same way as I knew it from my coach, John Kavanagh, okay? I'm very lucky with that, that I have a coach like that who is world-class, who coached Conor McGregor to 2 world championships, so I may be a little bit Yeah, I have high expectations there, right? But I couldn't really find anyone to help me out with this.

You know, that's— boy, you opened up so many channels that we could, we could probably talk all day just on those things. But that idea, like, do you find that you find that right person? You said you found people for specific strategies, and I think that's important too, isn't it? A lot of times people looking for this one savior, right? This one person that's going to do everything for you. It doesn't quite work that way. You know, you need people with different areas of expertise, different angles, different perspectives. It's, it's more of a coaching team, and, and I think a lot of people don't realize that about fighters. You mentioned that one trainer, and I have a Dr. Yong who fits a similar role in my life. But along with Dr. Yong or your coach, your trainer, there are a lot of other people too that you rely on.

That's true, and that you always have to make the difference between strategy and the more fundamental perspective, and I did have an easy time finding the right strategy and finding different people in different niches who could help me in writing copy or in doing videos or stuff like that.

It's always easier to find the technical stuff.

Yes, exactly, exactly.

Now the mind-body stuff that you're talking about, especially the energy levels, I'm particularly interested because, you know, I told you before the show, I'm getting on in my years. I'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel coming fast, right? And that is an issue, and it's an issue with leaders. And this is an interesting thing too that comes up in our workshops. I'm sure you deal with this with your clients too. Sometimes, and as an athlete, did you have the same experience as me? I mean, sometimes you train like crazy and be physically exhausted but mentally alert and excited. And yet in business sometimes, right, when you're in a mental chess game and no physical activity at all, like the analogy of the meeting you talked about, and you come out of there just wrung out.

Yeah.

And not able to even function after that. How do you reconcile that? How do you get that? How do you advise people find their source of energy in those situations?

Okay, so what I always say is it's very important to switch your energy systems. So I like to look at it from a physiological perspective first. Maybe you know the supercompensation model. When you put a training stimulus on your body, you get tired first. You don't actually become stronger when you're training. You get tired and you're weaker. And then you recover. You leave some time and you recover above the baseline, beyond the baseline. So you supercompensate. You become stronger than before you became tired. What's really important is to look at it from the same perspective when it comes to your mental game. When you put a hard strain on your system and you really focus with all of your attention for a long time, then your You're drained out and you need to recover, and that would be the perfect time to switch the energy system and to put a physical drain on your body. And while you do that, you can recover your mental state. And it's really a question of timing here. So that's where I really like to get specific.

Yeah, and please do so. In other words, if I come out of that meeting and I'm horribly drained, I don't I don't feel like doing anything else. That would be the best time to hit the gym, no?

Yeah, so the funny thing is what we're doing at that moment, why we're not hitting the gym is because we're using a mental shotgun. So that means we have the impression that we're generally exhausted because without really listening to ourselves and finding out that process, we overgeneralize and we think that mental exhaustion equals physical exhaustion. But once you fine-tune your attention to this, you will find out that once you actually get going and you go to the gym at that moment, you will feel extremely loose and flexible and strong.

That's always the way, isn't it? And what's also interesting is that it's no accident that depression, psychological depression, is a huge, huge challenge to business leaders today. I mean, the pressures are enormous and you're dealing with other people's issues all the time, right? You're responsible for other people. So is it the same component there, you know, when you're in that state of depression? I know, you know, most—

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It's the same thing. It happens because people don't leave time for supercompensating their mind. They train, they basically train themselves in into a ditch mentally, and that's where overwhelm— yeah.

Let's drill down into that a little bit more because that's fascinating. I mean, it's easy to understand, you know, if we use the analog of the workout because, you know, you feel that. I mean, you know, I think you agree, right, that it's not that no pain, no gain. The gain is in the pain, right? You said when you're stressing your body, when you're pushing your limits, that's when your body's going to super— I love the word supercompensate. I'm gonna steal that from you. They supercompensate and you get stronger. So how do you do that mentally?

Yeah, you made a very good point there because it's easy to find the indicators and to know when you're recovered because you have a muscle ache and once that muscle ache is gone, you know you can train again. Or after a hard cardio session, your resting heart rate will be elevated for quite a while until you're recovered.

Remember, you're talking to a 60-year-old guy now. I have to tell myself that that means something positive now. I used to enjoy it. Now I have to convince myself.

Yeah, but basically it's easier to see when you're recovered physically. It's pretty easy. And what you have to do is find your own ways, really find your own indicators to see when you're mentally recovered. And for me, just as an example, I know that when I get up in the morning and I just have that feeling of clarity and I don't have the first impulse to check my phone and to look at new emails or at new tasks that are piling up, and I can just leave that away for a second, even though they might exist, the tasks and the whatever is piling up, but I can just leave that for a moment and just be in that moment and have clarity first thing in the morning. That is my personal indicator for mental recovery.

Oh, now you're talking about what a lot of people consider a four-letter word, is discipline.

Right?

I mean, you have to embed that practice in your life, right?

Yeah, I mean, it takes discipline until you made it a habit, and for that to work out, you need to strategically implement and listen to these indicators, and when you find them, then you need to make your conclusions.

I see what you're saying, and that there, now you just closed the circle, didn't you?

Yeah. Do more of what works and do less of what doesn't. That's what it's all about.

Simple, not easy. There it is. Reuben, let's make sure before we wrap things up, we want to make sure that people understand how to get in touch with you. Talk a little bit about all the services you provide and then how can people get in touch with you.

Yeah, so I used to do a lot of in-person executive coaching, but right now I'm really switching most of it to online. Because I also feel like it gives me a lot more opportunity to actually accompany leaders' lives because I'm there every step of the way. So I have a 7-week online program, empowertale.com, and what I do is I basically take the entire preparation that I did for my fights and I adapt that to a business leader's life. So we put in a lot of mental work, we sharpen the mental focus and get the fitness up in the same way as I do for my fight preparations. And yeah, I also coach you once a week, so you have a Skype coaching session with me once a week and I accompany your whole progress towards inspirational leadership because that's what That's what it's all about.

Absolutely, we are so on the same page and that sounds like a great program we can recommend to people. Ruben, thanks a lot. You know, I'm fascinated. I think we've got a lot more to talk about. I look forward to things we can do together. Would you come back on the program again as well?

Sorry, what was that?

Would you come back to the program again as well?

Oh, 100%. Very much enjoyed talking to you here.

Good.

You hang on just a second. I want to talk to you just for a minute afterwards and for everybody listening, hey, thanks for tuning again today. And I do want to remind you that we recently posted our 50th episode. 9 of our guests from the previous shows were on offering 2-minute nuggets to help you grow as a leader. So make sure you check that out and stay in touch with us. Okay, Ruben, thanks so much for being with us.

Thanks so much, Jim.

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