058 Mark Redlus - Leading Behavioral Health

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I wish I'd never said we're going to have an amazing guest when I recorded that open.

I'm going to have to redo that thing because that's the only kind we have here on Walking the Walk. And today is no exception. Mark Redlis is the CEO of Tridium. His company provides a platform that helps behavioral healthcare professionals understand and connect more deeply with the people they serve. We'll be back in just a second with Mark Redlis.

People who inspire, empower, and guide us to our very best. Leaders who are walking the walk. Your host, leadership activist, author, and founder of the Sensei Leader Movement, Jim Bouchard.

All right, you know, he said it's just a real honor to have Mark Redlis with us today. He's the CEO of Tridium, and boy, lots to talk about today, Mark.

Yes.

What a rapidly changing world we're living in.

Yes, the world we woke up to on Monday is a vastly different world than the world we even went to sleep with on Friday. So from a work perspective, yes, that's for sure.

And I think it's gonna be different in an hour too, so.

And the hour after that.

We gotta roll with it.

24 hours after that, for sure.

There you go. But I'm sure we'll dig into some of those challenges for people that are listening in a timely fashion, but let's make sure we hit the core of what we were here to talk about today. Tell us a little bit more about exactly what behavioral health is for people who might not understand or who confuse it with mental health issues and exactly what your role is there. Yeah.

So, well, behavioral health, at least as we define it, obviously is a person's ability to function in their everyday life. And so the kind of the bigger macro drivers that are weighing against that are things that you would expect kind of what many perceive as external factors, but oftentimes are driven by our own kind of unworked feelings or things that have gone undiscussed and just have bubbled up inside of us. But we deal across the spectrum in predominantly two areas, two pieces. There's lots of other aspects to it, but mental health and addiction-related or substance use-related issues kind of fall under the purview of what tritium works on. And within the mental health silo— probably shouldn't even call it a silo, but mental health— you have things like depression, anxiety, PTSD, those types of areas, and then how those three things could be comorbid with one another. And they tend to manifest in things like severe chronic depression, Suicidal ideation, things like harm to others or harm to self, those are the types of things that we're encountering with our products in support of clinicians and patients working with one another. And that's on the mental health side. On the substance use side, obviously, really runs the gamut from illegal use of prescription meds to illegal or illicit drugs. And everything in between. Certainly, the opioid crisis in the US has really kind of manifested itself, and that becomes kind of a persistent thread through a lot of what we work with in those areas. And those things have a compounding effect when any of the things I just mentioned go wrong or start to trend downwards for a person, and they also have some type of a medical condition. They don't have to have a medical condition, of course. But if they do, they have diabetes or COPD or congestive heart failure or are on dialysis. Anytime any of the other things I just mentioned before that have gone horribly wrong, that exacerbates that problem and it leads to a real precipitous decline and an increase in total care and obviously a decline in outcomes for that person.

Well, you just stacked a whole lot of cans on the table and there's lots of worms in every one of those cans.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

We could talk for months on this, right? And I do wanna get back to specifically, you know, what role tritium plays in this.

Sure.

But before we get into that, dive into that, you know, it's interesting because people who have seen me live or people who know my work, I openly share, you know, how I started this whole adventure, which was, as a drug addict. And so it's interesting that you bring up those things. And I'm always, I'm not gonna say surprised, I guess that's not the right word, but it still always amazes me that when I'm speaking with a room full of leaders that so many people have shared that experience or know somebody close to them that share that experience. And I appreciate that you said, you know, 'cause a lot of times, and I think one of the confusions is people mistake treatments, especially treatments that involve other drugs for people withdrawing from a drug experience. And yet the behavioral component is so strong, and I know it was in my life. In my life, one of the things that helped, well, it saved my life, was getting involved with martial arts, right, which shaped my career and my work now. But people need that type of thing. And leaders, nobody's immune from this, are they? I mean, leaders struggle with this. I hear it all the time. Like I said, it's amazing sometimes, especially the depression component can go along with these things.

For sure. I mean, speaking of people that are close, it's no secret we published, we co-published, co-authored a fairly significant article online, my daughter, Catherine, and I, around her August 2018 suicide attempt. She is 30 years old now, but she was just turning 29 at the time. And she, you know, has a lot of incredible things going for her, but it got— the things that were going on around her, those external factors, her perception was they were beyond her ability to cope. And, you know, here I am running this digital behavioral health company and, you know, it's happening right there and still missing the science or not believing the science.

Oh, no, no, I'm so glad you brought that up because we hear that a lot, and particularly when I'm talking with people who have had an experience close to them, right? And all I can do for comfort is say, look, I was there too. And I had episodes in my life where I was suicidal. And even with the drug thing, I mean, the people I was doing drugs with, they obviously knew, you know what I mean? But most people wouldn't have guessed it in a million years. And when I say it now, they, you know, and that's an interesting thing. And you having that experience, maybe you can share a little bit more about that. I just tell people, look, you can't feel guilty. First of all, you couldn't have helped me because I didn't want help at the time. And the second thing is, I wouldn't have expected you to see the signs. Sometimes as addicts, we get really good at hiding those things. We get good at hiding our depression. We get good at hiding the telltale signs, right? Yeah.

I mean, the things that led up to it, I think, are less interesting than the things that have come out of it. And we write about that in the article. In fact, we're recording a podcast interview in a week as a sequel to the article where Catherine's going to take kind of a live interview. And she's really—

Please share those links with us. We'll get them out.

Oh, we will, for sure. And she's really active in her mental health pursuits around artists. She's an actual performance harpist and has an album out on iTunes and just terrific, terrific talent. And one of the things that we talk about is coming out of this, obviously, after you get through the acuity of the situation and the immediacy of it, our lives together have changed profoundly. In how much we talk now. And I don't mean like frequency, but in what we talk about when we talk to one another is much more straight speaking, straight talking, real rich conversation. It doesn't feel like anything like that's going to sneak up on either one of us. Not that it couldn't, but we're just really more curious about the why or what behind the statements being made to one another. And I think listening— to one another better, is it— hopefully no one has to go through what Catherine went through and what we watched her go through, but if the other side of it is our lives are changed that drastically to the good, you know, for decades and decades to come, and she's the better for it, you know, there's a learning there. So, and I think that thematically, by the way, not to make a big transition to Tridium, but That thematically transitions really well to what Tritium does.

No, please do go that way. Yes.

Yeah. And how it supports kind of the mental health care delivery here in the US, certainly at this point in what we're doing. So stepping back, and I promise I'll come back to the thread, but let me just give you some context.

No, no, no, no, no, no, please. No, this is a perfect segue. Don't apologize at all. And I do have some more questions for you. This is critically important because people need these resources. You know what I mean? I wish there were more resources like this when I was going through it. I was fortunate enough to fall into a couple of friends that had some experience, but no, this is what people need to hear. And the only thing I'll say to preface it is this, nobody's immune.

You know what I mean?

This show is aimed mostly for leaders at all levels, but a lot of people that are in positions of authority and are responsible for others. Listen to this. And the thing, the important message I'd say is nobody's immune. You know what I mean? And sometimes when you're in the throes, especially like I said, at the time we're recording this for people who are listening, we're in the thrust of the coronavirus situation. And people are busy, leaders, they're moving like Fred Flintstone's little feet, just moving like crazy. And they may still be going through these things and yet nobody's going to notice because they're dependent on them for leadership. They're doing a pretty good job. Outwardly looking calm and collected, but inside there may be some really huge issues. So yeah, let's hear more about Tritium and what you offer to help people through these things.

Yeah. So we— you could think of us on a broader scale as behavioral health operating system. So I think that that's the best way to start this conversation about Tritium. We are this very immersive, clinically immersive platform, software platform that supports at its most base incarnation, the interactions between patients and providers and everything in between. And so we actually sit as a piece of software, as a platform, in an immersive setting throughout health systems that employ or contract with behavioral health providers. And those providers can range from licensed clinical therapists, to social work, to psychologists, to psychiatrists, all kind of supporting that total continuum, again, of mental health or substance use related care. And the journey for the patient on Tridium starts either 24 hours or just before they walk into their appointment with whomever they're seeing. Again, this could be a prescription related appointment with a psychiatrist, or it could be a therapy related appointment with any of the folks that I mentioned. But they actually complete an assessment, and that assessment is either done through a secure link in their web browser or on an iPad right before they walk in for their exam. And so, when they do this assessment, they complete something that takes about 3 to 5 minutes to generate a set of scores around the things that I talked about at the top of this interview, depression, anxiety, PTSD, indications of suicidal ideation, indication of harm to others, any drug-related issues, any alcohol-related issues, and then overall functioning. Things like, you know, how do I just generally feel today? Am I able to do the things that I want to do? Those questions are all incorporated into this, into this assessment. And all of that surfaces real-time right to the desktop or the tablet of the clinician that's going to work with that patient. And I mean, like, in 5 seconds it surfaces to them and into the— and into the patient record. And it creates a visualized tapestry for that clinician of, in fact, how that clinician should prioritize their time with the— with that particular patient. And so the orientation of Tritium and our product is all around outcomes to start. It's how do we increase, improve outcomes for patients. How do people get to a managed state of wherever they are in their— with their depressive condition, their anxiety condition? How do we get them to a point where they're doing well on a regulated, managed basis as opposed to the acuity or the high severity that they're probably encountering right now in their world? And so, Tritium serves as a really valuable secondary clinical digital intervention that is paired— when paired with a provider, creates this transparency and engagement between the patient and the provider. The provider literally flips their screen or their tablet around and shows them that tapestry that I just talked about right to the patient. So the patient is fully engaged in what they've presented, because they have no idea what they presented. They just answered a bunch of questions.

Right.

And then there's this check-in period over a course of 5 minutes at the front end of their first or subsequent sessions that says, "Does this look right to you? Does this sound right? Does this feel right to you?" There's the thing.

You know what?

We're gonna take a short break, and you're going exactly where I was gonna try to steer it because that's, I think, what people's concerns would be. Let's take a short break. We're gonna be right back. This is Mark Redlis from Tridium, and we're gonna talk a little bit more about his services to help providers prepare do the best job for you in these behavioral therapies.

We'll be right back.

Tritium gives healthcare providers an incredible tool to connect more deeply and understand their patients' needs. A digital behavioral health company dedicated to advancing behavioral medical integration, Tritium delivers capabilities designed to identify those who need behavioral help, speed their access to care, and deliver a measurable impact to outcomes. Led by a nationally recognized team of experts in behavioral medicine, digital health technologies, health insurance, and behavioral health clinical research, Tridium solutions are backed by nearly 20 years of research and findings that have been published in more than 40 peer-reviewed journals and other scientific publications. Learn more about this amazing company at tridium.com. That has two U's. T-R-I-D-I-U-U-M. tridium.com. The research is bombproof. People perform at their best when and only when they know their leaders care, when they know their work has meaning, and when they have the chance to learn, grow, and develop. To accomplish this, we need to connect with the people we serve, the people who trust in our leadership. Leaders today need emotional intelligence, strong interpersonal skills, and an accurate sense of self-awareness. I'm Jim Bouchard, leadership activist and founder of the Sensei Leader Movement. The sensei enjoys a very special relationship with students. It's one built on respect, trust, and loyalty, and these are also a leader's most valuable assets. I help you build these relationships. I work with you to help you inspire, empower, and guide your people to their very best. That's what the best leaders do, and that's what the sensei does. My job is to to help you be the sensei so you can lead your people to their very best and yours.

Executive coaching, workshops, corporate training. Visit thesenseileader.com or call 207-751-4317 today to learn more.

All right, Mark, you know, before the break, you said a couple of really interesting things because as you were talking, I was thinking about a couple of concerns that, you know, the patient might have, the consumer might have. And you already went a long way toward answering one of them because, you know, it's the same thing when we're dealing, you know, with leadership assessments and behavior in the workplace where, yeah, I guess I kind of preach against them a lot. Not that there isn't anything, not that there's anything bad necessarily about assessments. What my worry is, is that it stops there. And we noticed that in management, a lot of people will look at these assessments, behavioral assessments based on performance or whatnot, They'll pigeonhole somebody. They let the assessment— I say the assessment should be the beginning, not the end of the conversation. And it sounds like that's what you're talking about here, right? You're giving the provider the tools to know that patient a little better. And I like the fact that you really started talking before the break about, you know, that's where the clinician can start asking some questions, right? And one of the most important ones is, do you think this match? Am I seeing this the right way? Am I way off base, or is that basically what you're talking about?

No, yeah, you got it very well. Yeah, it's really calibrating the approach. And that's the whole basis for the clinical approach that our products support, which is this thing called feedback-informed care, which to your audience out there and to folks out there that are thinking about or looking at this, you really want to know that the person you're working with, if you are seeing somebody, is practicing through that lens of, am I taking the feedback of the patient into account?

Right?

I mean— Right. As I work my approach on how to do that. By the way, the feedback changes over time. People feel worse or better or bonded to their therapist or their clinician. It's a dynamic evolving relationship. It's not a, "I'm going to approach depression with this patient the way I approached it the last 10 times with my other 10." No, this person is a unique person. Let's give back what— or let's take what the patient is giving us and work from there.

Does your platform move? Does your platform move with them? In other words, as they're going through a therapy or going through a relationship with a clinician, that there's more points of contact? Is that what I'm hearing?

Yeah, so the product is actually assessing the patient at every— at least every week, in many cases, no less than every 2 weeks. So typically through an episode of care, a traditional episode of care of a patient-clinician relationship, we'll capture 3 to 5 kind of points in time of data, which allows for trending and predicting and guiding that patient along and that provider along.

And of course, the other big alarm bell everybody worries about right now is privacy. You know, we hear every day that, you know, one of these super secure systems, especially— and we do a lot of work with healthcare folks, and I know that's one of their concerns too, you know, how to protect that. So can you talk a little bit about that and how your company approaches that?

Boy, yes, we, we are one heck of a lockdown entity. So we have a cloud-based infrastructure that is a HIPAA-compliant, multi-certification secured environment. Everything is US on-prem base— based. We— any integrations—

which means that people like me, they just can't get in, right? Because it's one thing when we're talking— I don't care if some— somebody hacks into my, you know, general practitioner and finds out that I take medications medicine for irritable bowel syndrome, you know what I mean? I could care less, really. But if I'm dealing with something like addiction, especially from leadership position, you don't want people— God, you don't want people outside to know that. You want to control that news, you know?

Well, and things like— Americans probably don't even know this, but if you're dealing with HIPAA-compliant data and you're hosting in any of the cloud infrastructures, which do host everybody's healthcare data right now, a lot of people don't know that, the infrastructure partner you're working with that secures and locks it down has to keep that data inside of US borders, which sounds like obvious, but many are using disaster recovery and letting data flow across borders if you don't have those requirements.

So, I see.

There are a lot of hoops to jump through to protect patient data, American patient data, and obviously we do that. There's financial-level security-grade encryption around data that's flowing between iPads and other systems into our system. Once it gets to our system, same levels of encryption and firewalls around that. Yeah, I mean, we are locked down very much like a health system would be locked down, and all of the data in motion is encrypted as well, just like you would if you were trying to conduct a financial transaction. We're doing the same thing.

You know, that's— I want to turn the conversation just a little bit because all this is fascinating. I could ask you about this all day long, but also, you know, again, as we're recording, we're going through this coronavirus challenge, and one of the great shifts, which I think is going to be evergreen, we're not going to see we're going to see a total pendulum swing back. And one of the things that we've been talking about a lot over the last few days is a sudden need for remote learning. And I noticed in your bio that a lot of your team works remotely. So, you've, as a leader yourself, you've already addressed this challenge. What advice do you have for people that are all of a sudden making this shift? I mean, we're literally hearing companies tell us that they're taking 1,000 people out of the office and sending them home with laptops. I mean, that's a big shift.

Yeah, I'm so glad you asked this. You're giving me good practice for— I have a noontime call with 12 CEOs from around the country that are private equity or venture capital based to talk about best practices on remote, and I'm sure I'll be contributing to this. So a couple of really quick things that probably will play out even after this, so people are hearing this well after the coronavirus is concluded. This is really probably pretty helpful. So persistent and scheduled conversations with staff and broader team is really important. So we've actually scheduled an every other day video chat, short burst if you will, for me to share with the entire company and staff wherever they are in the country. We incorporate things like Zoom. So Zoom is a daily part of our lives anyway because we're We're spread out across the country quite a bit, even though we have our headquarters in Philadelphia.

Geez, I better put an affiliate link up quick.

Yeah, exactly. Sorry. But, well, we'll probably have to put another one in a second. But, you know, the technologies that we're using, I think, again, we will be sharing today on this best practices call, are developing really good practices for how you communicate in real time and simulating this kind of in-office environment. I'll be fair to everybody, whether you're using something like Microsoft Teams or Slack, which I think are the two leading platforms out there, and we use one of them. Those products allow us to kind of continue a flow, and we actually have flex work on Fridays anyway, where a lot of our practices were kind of hardened and used. This is just kind of a natural flip for a lot of people. To move to this and conduct business this way. I mean, our infrastructure, again, is hosted in the cloud, into a secure private cloud. So we don't have any— to us, it was more like, okay, you know, we're gonna enact the Friday, you know, the Friday program starting on Monday, and that will go for the end of the month, and then we'll take big things as we go. I will have a regular 15-minute call that will include 15 minutes of chatter to follow for folks that want to ask questions and talk with one another in a broad-based scenario. We do that at 3 o'clock on Monday, Wednesdays, and Fridays during this time. So I think giving folks a schedule and allowing people to feel confident that they can rely on anything at this point is really helpful. So, you know, managing expectations and setting expectations and then fulfilling them I think your basic tenets of really good behavioral health, we're doing that at a company level. So—

No, you're hitting so many good points. And one of the concerns, one of the challenges, since I really went full-time with The Sensei Leader, I had been working from home and that was after years of being in the martial arts and having a place to go to every day. And some of the adjustments that I've made and some of the things people are concerned about, first of all, there's this free time. People don't realize even just the drive, replacing that drive back and forth to work opens up a lot of time you never even realized you had until you have it. We keep encouraging people to fill that time. I talk about productive distractions, right? I mean, people, when they see me on video, they see piles of books behind me and I said, "Well, that's part of my productive distraction." Sure. I have some downtime. I can reach over. I can grab a book. I can catch up on some things, webinars, obviously. We're doing that ourselves, gearing up a lot of webinars right now for people because, hey, you can pop— great access we have to these things. But having said all that, I'm an evangelist about this. I said, "These things are great. They're great tools. It's so cool we can stay connected to a degree." But to me, nothing replaces that in-person face-to-face contact. Is that something you do? Do you have once in a while where you get people in the room or once a year? I know frequency has been a discussion. Oh, no, it's— Not so much frequency, it's quality, right?

Oh, that's a great, that's a great question, and I'm happy to answer it. So I really think in the thoughtfulness camp, we've done a very good job in some of these pieces. One of the things that we programmed, our former Chief of Staff did a wonderful job of, is creating a quarterly Week of Wonder. So we started it actually when we moved to Center City Philadelphia, out of the suburbs, and it's just kind of a, just a one-and-done, we thought, idea, but then it went to this quarterly format. So, it's WOW, Week of Wonder, and this is largely programmed by the staff, although there is some leadership pieces in there, and the entire company from all around the country is brought in for the week, but there's about 3 days of content. So, it's typically Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. And in that time, we have happy hours, of course. We do a breakfast served by the executive team to the company.

I like that one.

So, all of that takes place. And while we had to postpone this quarter's Week of Wonder because it was scheduled to happen—

Tell me about it.

Yeah, yeah.

It'll happen in June, but that whole program is something that people really look forward to. And in the beginning, it was a little bit like pulling teeth. Now we have to actually require or request content submissions and program submissions about 2 months beforehand, so almost on the heels of the last one. You know, who wants to speak in the next one and what's your content, and rate that, because there's just so many competing pieces that people, people want to put out.

So I love that. I love that, you know, when you mentioned that to us, that fits perfect. We're singing in perfect harmony. We call it, you know, leadership at all levels, that people The people on the front lines are the ones that are creating and proposing the content. And I hear you exactly. You know, it's funny because, I mean, we're really blessed. I always feel, you know, I don't like to toot my own horn, but we get very high marks at the conferences we present at. And so I always joke, I ask people, because it comes up in my presentation, I say, what's the most productive session at any conference? And I say, I like to think it's the Sensei Leader presentation, but I'm honest about it, it's not. It's the networking, it's the happy hour, right? Because people can get together, they can really just appreciate and be with each other, and that's something that we've got to be very careful not to lose. I hate that they come up with these anachronisms for things. Social distancing, why can't we just say, "Right now we gotta stay 6 feet apart." Why do we have to make up this—

Right, social distancing sounds really horrible.

That sounds callous as all hell, doesn't it?

Yeah, it's not a positive, it does not have positive connotations. Has positive connotations, not that I think most people are worried about it. But yeah, I think we all should be worried about it. And there's also, I think, in that leadership, there's other aspects of what we do in Week of Wonder that I think you would really enjoy. So, we have something called the watering hole. We really designed our new space to be supportive, and the watering hole very comfortably fits about 50 people in it. It's got what my executive coach calls this disco coffee machine. We've got these crazy commercial refrigerators. In some ways, in those ways, we look like a Bay Area, Silicon Valley startup. In other areas, we obviously don't due to the work we do, but I personally go out and pick all the wine for that happy hour and procure it.

Oh man.

Every quarter, and, you know, I talked to the staff about it. It sounds silly, but it's— No, no, no. Actually, it actually— I wanted to— I just want to identify there's like these little— it's the little things you do as a leader that really do make a big difference. I mean, Becky is excited because I thought I heard her say she likes this dry Riesling. That sounds crazy, but it's not crazy. So, you know, just paying attention to what people are talking about and asking about. It's not always, you know, did you hit your performance target this week? Did you roll out that site? It's not always that.

You'll get to that. You know, that's the cool thing. Again, we're so singing in harmony because I want to reinforce a point you just made. Inspiration, right, it should not be something that's left for the elite. I mean, inspirational things, the smallest little acts are so inspirational. Those are the things that that we carry with us for a long, long time and they mean something. And it's little personal things. But I was cracking up when you were talking because usually, nature of my business, I'm usually pitching people, say, "Hey, bring me to your conference." But you just pitched me. I just want to come to your conference. That sounds like one of the most fun meetings you could ever imagine. Hey, listen. Yes. We got to wrap some things up. I'd love to have you back again if you'd be willing. 'Cause there's a lot of things.

No, for sure. I mean, obviously I like talking clearly. So let's do this.

I usually don't go to the talking points. You could tell. I mean, I like to have, you know, listen to you have an organic conversation, but one of the talking points your office sent over, I really would like to kind of finish things up with this because what they sent was, do you have a 2-minute elevator speech or philosophy on leadership or how to begin your career as a leader? And I think that's an interesting question These days too, there's so many people that are looking at that saying, you know, what do I need to do? There's all kinds of formulas. And here at Sensei Leader, we're not really a formula organization, you know, because leadership is such an individual experience and you have to take, you know, you have to take it all in and then you have to kind of design your own. You have to create your own leader is the way we look at it. So I'd love to hear, you know, yeah, what's your philosophy?

Yeah, so, 2-minute elevator speech.

It doesn't have to be, don't worry, no pressure.

Yeah, as I try to put Jim Bouchard—

I mean, mine is one sentence. I say, "Leadership is sharing. A leader shares." End of story. Give me the check. I'm out of here.

Well, that's a good one. I may steal that. But, you know, when I look at leadership, I don't know if I have a great one or two-sentence piece here, but I will share with the broader, you know, listening audience out there Sure. The book that I find myself rereading on a quarterly basis, typically through Audible because I'm in my car, is the book by Ben Horowitz called The Hard Thing About Hard Things. And so, if you haven't read this book, for those of you listening, this book is one of the most important and profound things I've read in the last 5 years and probably will go on my permanent shelf. I've shared it with more people. Out there than anything else I talk about.

You're living exactly what I just said. That's it. You're sharing it. Absolutely.

Yeah. So, I think sharing leadership is really, for me, my philosophy is being vulnerable in front of your staff while giving, or your team, or your customers, your prospects, literally being vulnerable. Like, I don't know these things. I'm worried about these things. But not leaving them there, showing them, putting a destination in front, and providing some credible pragmatic wisdom about how we're going to get from where we are, this uncertain point, to where we're going, is really what you need to do on a daily basis. And people will not only follow you, but they will drag themselves through the sand to find you if you do that. Too many of us are working from a point of bravado, of overconfidence, and that stuff is just so transparent. People see that you're full of crap. They know it.

Yeah, they do.

They know it when you're being authentic. To me, leadership is authentic transparency with a well-crafted line of sight to a destination that you can share over and over, and you can't share it enough with the people around That's what I aspire to do. I don't know if that's what I do, but that's what I think you should be trying to do.

That's perfect.

And I'm sure you do. You know, old— well, it's one of the greatest gifts I ever received from my life as a martial artist is just this little bit of philosophy. You know, perfection is not a destination. It's a never-ending process, right? So I'm inspired by what you said, and I'm even more inspired by the fact that you just said that you're— if I'm hearing you right, you know, and I love to hear this from leaders, You're an ongoing piece of work, right? Always?

Always.

Yeah.

I hope I'm better than I was 2 weeks ago. I think never let a good crisis go to waste, and this is an opportunity to really elevate as leaders, not shrink. So, let's get after it.

That's perfect. Couldn't say it any better. Mark, tell us really quickly how to get in touch with you and how people can connect with Tridium.

Yeah. Tridium. So, they can visit us at tridium.com. New website is up, lots of content, and they can connect with us on same word on LinkedIn, where you can find me on LinkedIn. That seems to be where I spend almost all of my days if I'm not in the company. That's where I am digitally. So just look me up, Mark Redlis at LinkedIn, and you can associate with Tridium and you'll find me there.

Perfect. Mark, thanks for being with us.

Thanks, Jim. Have a great day.

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