How to KEEP IT HUMAN in Customer Service! (In the age of AI!)

One of the places where we're finding it really hard to keep it human these days is customer service, right? You've all heard this: "Your call is very important to us." Well, if it was, we'd be talking to a human being, right? Today we're speaking with one of the leading customer service experts in the country. He grew up a Disney guy and he shares the Disney experience with organizations all over the world to help them improve their customer service. We're with Danny Snow today. Let's get to it. I met Danny Snow through his father, Dennis. Dennis had written a book called Lessons from the Mouse based on his experience starting off as a ride operator at Disney World and working his way up into executive management, especially in customer service. Well, Danny grew up in that environment. And together they operate Snow and Associates. They travel all over the world teaching organizations how to embed that Disney experience. It's a pleasure to be with Danny Snow today. Danny, thanks for coming back for take 2. We'll get into why all that happened in a minute.

Yeah, it was a great time the first time.

It'll be even better this time. It'd be even better. But you know what, as we were talking before the show, I want to make sure people, you know, hear one of the best stories I've ever heard. It's one of your Disney experience stories. Talk about the dolls.

Yeah, so, you know, one of the main elements that we talk about in our customer service training sessions is, you know, seeing the entire experience through the lens of the people that you're serving and figuring out ways to go above and beyond. And one of the great things that Disney started, and this kind of happened back in like the early 1990s, is, you know, they're holding a team meeting with the housekeepers. They were trying to find a way, as guests were leaving the parks and going back to the hotel room to find ways to up their game there. Because as you might know, the end of the day out of Disney World, that is not a very happy time. All right, you've been out there all day long, you're hot, you're tired, you know, you got no money left, and kids are fighting with each other, moms and dads, parents are fighting with each other, and it's a miserable moment. And so Disney kind of saw this as an area of opportunity. And what they found in one of these team meetings is they're going around the room and asking people what they're doing. There was a housekeeper in this meeting and her name was Helen. And she said, you know, I've been taking the stuffed Disney characters that the kids are bringing back at the end of the day and I tuck them into the bed. And I leave a little note that says, now I know you had a busy day. The characters told me that they were tired. "So I tucked them in for you." And she signed her name Helen, left it on the bed. And this is something that took 20, you know, maybe 30 seconds for Helen to do this. But that idea of this family, this annoyed, frustrated family that's coming back to that hotel room at the end of the day, and then they open up the door and this is what they see. And it's Disney again. The magic is alive again.

So many ways. And it's funny because I shared that with my wife and she freaked out. She said, Oh, that's the best story ever. But it's like you said, you hit on so many things. It's so simple. So many people looking for the grand gesture, and it's the same in leadership, right? Looking for the grand gesture that is going to inspire people. But what you just talked about hits exactly the core of one of our most essential disciplines is inspiration. Inspire. To inspire people. To touch their hearts, you know, not just their heads. Correct. That's what that little gesture did. Now, what's really important, I think, is now how do leaders— what process would you share to help leaders, first of all, recognize an act like that and make sure, you know, leadership is sharing, make sure that they share that across the organization, make sure that other people start to— otherwise you got Helen doing it and nobody else, right?

Exactly right. And that's where having these team meetings with a cross-section of employees and making sure that you are, as the leader, taking that time to go and meet with them and talk with them. Because you will find that there are these amazing ideas that are all around us, these wonderful behaviors that team members are doing, that if you can find a way to really leverage that across the organization, that's really when you're going to separate yourself. And so one of the things that Disney would do, as I mentioned, they would have these team meetings. They'd have housekeepers, they'd have bus drivers, they'd have every single group coming in and sharing these ideas, and they would do a process map of whatever that they wanted to, to get better at in terms of what they were looking to fix in that moment. Get the right people that are involved in that process, and then they map it out step by step, but through the lens of the person that they're serving. And that could be an internal customer as well, all right? But, but seeing the entire experience of like coming back to the hotel room at Disney, you know, they've got to get on the bus, they've got to walk through the hotel lobby, they've got to walk to the hallway. Yeah, what are those areas of opportunity at each one of those steps now to make it an excellent experience? And, and that's where the ideas really start to come out. And, and then once the leadership gets involved and they start talking, sharing with the other departments, then they start talking to their team members, seeing the things that they're doing. And now you really are on to something because now you are finding ways to pull these great ideas that are all around a company and making it now just business as usual and just part of the culture. So, so employees don't even have to think about it anymore. You know, it's intentional, but it looks like it's so magical to the customer. It's something that we're all on the lookout to do.

Sometimes when that happens though, and I'm curious to hear how you address this, you know, there was a policy there before. Let's just say, and I don't know, you know, the facts behind this one. Let's just say there was a policy that would make it difficult for somebody to make an innovation like that, you know, Nothing gets tucked into the beds except people, you know, whatever the thing is. But we run up against that all the time. And then, you know, Helen comes along and does something that's either outside the parameters— because that happens too. It's not just always that people are breaking a rule or breaking the policy. Sometimes they'll just do something that isn't specified, and then leadership comes down and questions it. Now, I get it. I understand why people would try to work very hard to make sure these policies are honored and in place. But, you know, but then you have these great ideas that, you know, that go beyond that. So how do you approach leaders and help them to be— and let's— can we say a little bit more flexible about that? Say, hey, when something great happens like that, we're not going to punish anyone. We're not going to call them out. We're going to— we're going to make a hero out of this person.

Right, right. And so, yeah, and obviously you've got to be within reason. You know, a lot of the policies are in place either because something went wrong at some point and now that we can't do these things. Things. But, but, you know, just because we've always done something one way doesn't mean that we've got to continue doing it that way all along. And, and so I think, yeah, being open to it, hearing different ideas, and, and saying, you know, yeah, that was a great idea, we really can't do it for X, Y, and Z. There might be some regulatory reasons why you, you just can't do something. And especially when you think about the healthcare world or different things, you know, that you are going to run into some of those areas. What I think you can do is, if we're finding out, okay, what would we say would be an excellent experience at that moment. We, we can't do that for X, Y, or Z reasons. How close can we get to that without kind of crossing that line? You know, maybe we can't do it exactly as you, you planned it out, but, but we can get awfully close to it. And that's going to just enhance that moment for our guest, our customer. And that's again what's going to separate us from, from all the competition that we have out there.

So if I'm hearing you right, you really— you're— what you're really talking about is, um, leaders being transparent. It's one thing to sit there in a meeting and just read the policy and say, this is what we have to do. But you're empowering people a lot more if they understand the reasoning behind the policy, right? This is the policy. This is why it's in place. And then they have a, let's say, greater autonomy to be able to expand on that or question it.

Yeah, question it. And I think the longer you're at a company, the more freedom you've earned yourself. You've shown you can be trusted to do it. I mean, yeah, day one on the job, you probably don't have a lot of freedom to go and do these things. But Helen, you know, this house I trust people that have been here for a long time. It's like, okay, we know them, we trust them. They're doing what they're supposed to do and they're finding those areas. But yeah, obviously being as open and transparent as you can, I think that will earn you more trust as the leader. And it shows people that you're willing to also look outside the box and maybe be a little bit more open or vulnerable to things so you can go in and make some good significant changes as well. As well.

I like that idea. It's funny because I was just talking to somebody else about the generational divides, right? And we can apply it to time on the job. You know, sometimes a gap— you said that person first day on the job as opposed to someone who's been there for years.

Yeah.

I think also it's helpful to leaders to be a bit open-minded to those people who are, you know, early in the cycle, right? First day on the job, first week, because they bring a fresh perspective, don't they? I mean, they're not seeing it from the lens of this is the way we've done it, which—

right—

it's funny because you stumbled on a One of my greatest heroes, Admiral Grace Hopper, she said so many great things. But one of the greatest things she said is the most dangerous words in the English language are these: "We've always done it that way." Right?

Yeah, exactly right. Yeah. So, yeah, you know, bringing in fresh perspectives of, hey, you know, you just came from another company, maybe a similar company. What are some of the things that you did that worked there that maybe we could apply here? Here are some of the success stories that we've had here in our organization. Here are some of the team members that have gone above and beyond. And these are the kinds of ideas that we're looking to expand on and build upon. But when you kind of share these stories, now it gets these other team members thinking, okay, well, what can I do? You know, this person did this and that was great. I can enhance it a little bit. Or maybe I've got a fresh perspective. I know my company is on the lookout for these great ideas, and I'm not going to feel like I'm just being put in this box. I have to just toe this line here and that's that. I do have a little bit more free rein to offer up these great experiences for our customers, I think is a great idea.

Now that makes so much sense. Before we get— I want to make sure before we wrap up today that we talk about, you know, your own experience growing up Disney. And anybody who sees Danny's social media pages will understand what I'm talking about. His dad Dennis has been a frequent guest of ours on the Walking the Walk podcast. We haven't had him on this one yet. We will hopefully have Danny and Dennis together, right? That'd be great.

Yeah.

Yeah. And you'll see their— because that's how I met Danny, by the way. Dennis and I have known each other for a long time. He wrote a book called Lessons from the Mouse. And I had just put out Think Like a Black Belt. We were attached to the same publisher at the time. So that's how we got to meet. And so, you know, yeah, I understand Danny's growing up Disney perspective. But he tells the story so well. We're going to hear that in a couple of minutes. And part of the reason we called this Take 2 at the beginning of the program was we recorded an interview earlier in the week and it was on another platform like this and the audio failed, okay? The recording went up, we could hear each other but the audio failed and I went to get tech support, all right? And like a lot of these companies these days, and this is one of the greatest fears that I keep hearing from particularly from customers in relation to the customer service. Is that it's very hard to get to a human being when you need help. And I ran into that headlong. I went to tech support. Actually, there was a chat window, and I went to the chat window, and then I sat there like a moron for almost 2 hours waiting for somebody to respond in the chat window.

Hated.

And turns out I got an email, and the chat was just supposedly from my end initiating the ticket, right? And then there was an email response a couple of hours later. And, and I have to be honest, the first email response, I could tell right away in the first sentence that they— nobody had looked at what I had, had complained about. Yeah, it was a totally automated response. It was obvious it was a totally automated or just a boilerplate. And then I responded back to that. Yeah. So back and forth and back and forth. So here we are. And people, you know, now there's especially customer service is so much of a push to automate to, you know, the AI thing. So a couple of really deep questions, and some of this was instigated by the first time we talked. You know, how can we, how can we utilize these technologies to their best advantage without losing the human touch? You know, how do you coach organizations and teams that, you know, this is where a human being needs to step in? And certainly that, you know, that company lost a customer. I'm recording on a new platform today.

Right, right.

Oh, yeah.

And that's the risk you run. And I know you've used them for a long time and years.

Yeah.

Yeah, but that's a pretty significant thing. I mean, it was probably the single greatest conversation I've ever had in my entire life. And it made no record of it. No, but, but that kind of stuff is frustrating. And I mean, especially think about, granted, if this was your first time using that platform too, you know, thinking I'm never going to go back to them again. And my guess will be that you'll, you'll still use them in some capacity. You know, a lot of these companies too that—

I don't think so.

You know, a lot of times there are, if you've worked with somebody for a long time and then there is that one mess up, you know, you're a little bit more forgiving when you know that that's not necessarily the standard cause.

You know, I'm a customer. Klingon.

Yeah. Yeah.

If— but you know what? You bring up something important. If I had gotten a response that was a little more human, I think I would have had a little more tolerance, right? Even if it were delayed, something that spoke specifically to what my issue was. Yeah, I just didn't get that. And I do understand. Here's one of the complexities of this too. And I hear this a lot in our workshops. One of the big challenges we face these days is just the expansion of our organizations, of our communities, of our society, right? We grow and grow and grow, and it's difficult to maintain those close human connections as things are growing. So I know that's a cycle that they went through. It sure is.

But I mean, nothing is more frustrating. I hate the automated phone trees. I hate— I'm not a fan of the chats, the chatbots. Some of them are good. Some of them can solve a good majority of the technical issues or things that you might have. But in those moments where you're like, you need to talk to somebody and there's nobody there, there is nothing more frustrating than that. And I really don't like that so many companies have gotten rid of so many of the actual people that were in these support positions that can jump on quickly. 'Cause that was a good chunk of your day was spent going back and forth waiting on this, on something that probably could have been handled Obviously much better, but fairly easily from somebody with just even an apology. I'm so sorry this happened. You know, I'm going to try to look into it and see and investigate. Maybe we can figure out what went wrong. But for you to put everything in the chat, all the issues there, for them to do an automated response which clearly didn't address anything that you talked about. That's another one. When you're on the phone with sometimes actual live humans, though, You explain your issue to one person, they can't help you, so they've got to transfer you over to another department. They don't transfer any of your information. So now you get to this next person, you got to go through the whole process all over again.

Right.

There's so many ways to streamline some of these. And that's where you go back to that process mapping and looking at these processes. Okay, what, what can we do when we're transferring over somebody? We can, we can explain their issue so we don't have to now explain it again as the customer. Yeah, these chatbots, if we need a human there, there would likely be some kind of command you could put in. I need a human on the phone. I need somebody to talk to. I do wish more and more companies would have that set up. And I think we've had this huge push, obviously, to AI, and it's going to get better. But I don't want to ever lose the human element because it just will never be able to replicate what that human connection can do.

No, I hear you. I mean, one of the most frustrating things when you, like you said, you get that. First of all, I don't know how many times a company needs to change their phone menu.

Our menu options have recently changed.

Yeah, yeah, they've recently changed every week for the last 5 years. And the other one is, your call is important to us. Well, if it were, I'd be talking to a damn human being right now. Right. Oh yeah, right.

Instead of hearing that over and over for 2 hours.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I get it. But you know, everything you talk about too, it's interesting because This is one of the issues that we are facing as organizations are expanding or being, you know, merged and being swallowed up by bigger and bigger organizations. How do you keep the channels open? Because it seems to me, and I know you guys do a lot of work in the credit union association space as we do, I think the credit unions do a pretty good job from a leadership perspective in making sure that they get input from the front lines. They know that the tellers are the ones that are really creating that experience for the member. They don't even call them customers, right?

The members. Right, right.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

And so I think that's an important part. So yeah, expand on that a little bit.

How do you— Credit unions are some of the greatest people out there. We love working in the credit union world too. They do. And they find the right people that are there. I think that's a big part of it is they get usually more warm, bubbly, fuzzy people there and they really do know how to take care of the members. And yeah, the entire organization is open to feedback and it's not just a closed-door policy where the leader says, this is what we do, go out there and blindly do it. It's an open conversation. Everybody feels like we have that autonomy to make the member experience as good as possible. And yeah, that's something I wish other industries would approach as well. And I think we are getting more into that. I think before it used to just be businesses across the board. Leader says this and then everybody has to blindly follow it. But I think people have learned that the leaders don't have all the answers. You know, they haven't been in these frontline roles for a very long time or in a lot of situations they've never even actually worked the frontline in these industries. You know, they're good at certain aspects of it. Obviously, that's how they've gotten the job, but they don't necessarily know the ins and outs of this particular role in the credit union or wherever I happen to work. And so, you know, I love the story I heard on one of your other podcasts. It was your friend from Jamaica who was a leader, but he was afraid of looking weak if he talked to the folks that were underneath him to get advice.

But yeah, that's the only cultural divide, serious cultural divide that I think I've run into talking about human-centric leadership. You know, usually people, you know, most of the leaders that I meet all over the world, they They genuinely care about their people. They want to put their people first. But once in a while you'll run into that. And really quick, that story was that this— and this happens quite a bit now, like you just said— young man had just graduated from management school, from college, and right into management in an industry he knew very little about. That happened to be credit union at the time, but he hadn't come up through the ranks, right? He hadn't been a teller, which traditionally was the path, right?

You go through. Right, right.

And that's happening more and more, and that's fine. He was a competent manager, you know, he knew what he was doing there. He knew the administrative parts of it, the technical management parts of it.

Right.

Now, he didn't really understand what was going on the front lines. And so when— that's what we were talking about, actually, you know, how people can lead up, because I believe some of your best leaders are on the front lines. They inspire people, they empower people, they guide people. They don't want a rank or title or a position of authority. Authority, right?

Yeah.

That has nothing to do with leadership anyway. So some of your greatest leaders are on your front lines. So what we were trying to do is encourage some of these people with management titles to go to the front lines and ask them and get that input, get that communication flow happening.

Right, right.

And his response was, you're right, it was, well, where I am, if I do that, those people will think I don't know what I'm doing. And my response was, well, you don't. You have no idea, right? And that's fine. It didn't mean he wasn't doing a good job. It just meant he lacked the experiential capital to— Right, right. So anyway, very long story very short, and that all happened in Cuba, actually.

Oh, okay. Gotcha.

Yeah. It was pretty cool. We were speaking to the Caribbean Confederation of Credit Unions. Their event was in Cuba.

Okay.

So a couple of years later, I was speaking in Las Vegas and this guy came running up the hallway. He said, "Hey Sensei, you remember me?" I said, "Yeah, I do." And asked him how it was going. And it was an interesting thing because culturally, again, still his superiors still weren't completely on board with what he was doing. He was afraid they would think he didn't know what he was doing, right? And that's all understandable, it's all rational. But he was trying to implement that. He was asking for advice and getting that input from the front lines. And it was working. People were coming to him with ideas or He was identifying problems before they got too big. You know, these are all things that can happen when you get that flow going.

Correct.

He was still concerned about, you know, the people he reported to. But, you know, my response to that was, don't worry about that. Keep, keep doing it. In a couple of years, you're going to be in their office, right? Right.

Right.

You're going to be the one that changes the culture. So, yeah, these things take time, but they do.

And I enjoyed the story. It's one that stood out to me when I was watching some of your others.

I couldn't have hoped for a better experience. That was pretty cool.

Yeah, yeah, right. And, you know, usually the people that are working underneath you, they're, they're very aware of what you're doing and what you don't know too. I, I think it's very obvious.

Yeah, they are, right?

No, it's pretty clear. And so, yeah, nobody's— I, I have a hard time thinking people are gonna look down on you. If I want to learn and get better, yeah, go ask these people, you know. And, and so the, the fact that I know it'll take some time because, yeah, we did grow up to, it's, "No, I got to know everything. I got to be the best at everything I do. Otherwise, nobody's going to think I can do the job." But yeah, finding ways to continually grow, I think, is great because yeah, the front lines, they are, you know, they're leaders there too. They do make a lot of those decisions that make the companies run. And so I think, yeah, finding ways just to utilize that information from all around us is such a key aspect to any leader that's out there because you do, you get wonderful ideas from everybody.

That's one of the things I admire about you so much, you and Dennis both, where— and that's one of the reasons I enjoy partnering with folks like you, because I'll hold my lane. I'll stay more in the philosophical part of it, you know, to a degree. There is process, you know, definitely that we talk about a lot with, you know, the leadership aspect, with the human relationships aspects of it, interpersonal stuff. But then when you're starting to create policy, that's where— now, I'm— I'm going to hand that off to folks like you. And but that's a cool and it's very important part of it, right? So why don't you just walk us through that a little bit? Like, how do you take something like that that, you know, can start off a little bit intangible and you're going to bring it down to, you know, to making sure that it becomes policy and making sure that it's able to be shared across the organization.

Yeah, it starts with obviously the leadership having the buy-in from everybody up top, but Then it works into hiring process.

You call it a process map though, right? That was something that— Yeah, yeah.

So we call it customer experience mapping. So like any process map, but it takes time to build them out. Again, that's when you're going through step by step and where can we improve, whether it's hiring and training, whether it's onboarding of a new customer or a sales process, whatever it is. And making that business as usual. All right, here, here's what we do. This is what we do now, and, and it's fine, but here are the elements that we can now raise the bar of service, and these are the ways that we can do it. And this is now our way. This is the, you know, the Disney way of doing business, whatever company it is. So any new hire material, any ongoing training and coaching is all about reinforcing those elements that we have said are going to be our keys to doing business the way that we do We want to do it as a company. And once that— and it's not going to happen overnight. I mean, it takes time to really change a culture and get things in place. But slowly over the years, that just becomes part of who we are. And you get people that we don't even have to think about it anymore. You know, like one of the things at Disney World that they used to ask us to do that didn't matter what role you were. I worked on Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. You could be the vice president of marketing. Doesn't matter. You're walking through the park, you see a piece of trash on the ground. Your job and your job description is you need to go over, pick it up, and throw it away. All right. And the number one compliment Disney always receives is how clean the parks are.

Clean it is, sure.

Yeah, right.

And then Walt Disney himself do that. I mean, it's kind of a famous story. Walt Disney himself was caught doing that several times, right?

There's a, a very famous picture of Walt picking up trash, and, and you think there's no better training material in the world right there than seeing Walt out there picking up that trash. Any cast member that saw him that day to anybody that sees that picture to know, okay, if the man himself is out there doing it, I can do it too. And, and it's easy. And you get to the point where, you know, you know, Dennis always jokes, he's like, you know, I'd do this in other places, it just became a part of me. And I do it in shopping malls, you know. I was like, my, yeah, my mom always gets so mad at him, he's sitting there picking up trash while we're just out and about as a family. Yeah, it just becomes part of who you are. And, and I think that's the goal for these companies.

That's it. You know, that's a really cool segue because before we wrap things up, I, I want to hear You know, it's funny because when we talked the first time, it seemed like, I don't know, you seemed like a little bit hesitant to share this story. But to me, I think it's one of the most inspirational stories. You literally grew up Disney, you know? Oh, yeah. You have a great family, you have a great life, you have a great family now that you produced, you know? Oh, yeah. To use a Disney term. Yeah, it's just terrific. What are— and I'm going to put you on the spot with this one— what do you think were some of the benefits of growing up the way you did? You know, if you can share an experience or two, and you know, how did that shape who you are now and what you share with other people?

Yeah, so yes, I'm one of the few people that you're likely to meet that was born and raised here in Orlando. Me and my brother David, you know, both my parents moved to Orlando in the '70s to work out at Disney World. And so yeah, I was born, I mean, if there was ever a day off from school or my parents just needed something to do with us for the day, they'd sign me and my brother, me and a friend into the park. And that was just our playground. You know, we were 4th graders just by ourselves without phones. I wonder how we survived, you know, because I—

Sounds kind of idyllic to me, to be honest with you.

It was amazing. But I would never let my own kids go to the parks, you know, 4th grade by themselves the way that we did. You know, for, for me growing up, it was what a theme park was to me. You know, Disney World, it was, it was a beautiful place. The, the rides were amazing, the parks were clean. But I, I got older, theme parks around the country, and I, and I quickly realized what a big difference then there was between what Disney was doing and what everybody else was doing. You know, some of these other parks are, are dirty. They, they, you know, the employees there don't really care what they're doing. You know, the safety doesn't feel like it's there whatsoever.. And so it was, it was really eye-opening to me then to really see what that whole experience, that whole Disney mindset is all about. And so I was hooked. I was drinking the Disney Kool-Aid and I wanted to work out at Disney World and, you know, worked on Big Thunder Mountain, as I mentioned, out at the Magic Kingdom on my breaks home from college. And that was a— it was the greatest experience. And then now we've got a family consulting company. And so we do keynote presentations and workshops all around the world on this whole experienced elements. And, you know, I go to some of these amazing events. I know you do too. But you hear these motivational stories of people that have both challenges in their lives and they come and they've built these, these empires out of it. And it's these amazing experiences that make you as the audience member like, I'm going to run through a wall for this person. And, you know, I come up and say, well, I grew up going to Disney World. You know, it's not quite the same motivational aspect there, but, you know, I was fortunate. I did, you know, I love growing up there. It shaped so much of who I am, and we're still season pass holders, as you mentioned. Me and my family, we're out there at the parks. We're going there this Saturday. We're out there all the time, and I absolutely loved it. But yeah, I get a kick out of it when I try to follow a speaker who overcame a lot of life challenges. And then I'm the kid that grew up going to Disney World.

So, well, I— if, you know, if it means anything, uh, yeah, I think I would have traded with you.

Yeah, yeah, no, I, I know, it was, uh, I, I said, I, I recognize I, I was very fortunate there. But, uh, yeah, Dennis and Debbie, my mom and dad there, yeah, wonderful, wonderful people. And, uh, yeah, we feel the same about you and Alex. It has been an absolute joy for us to get to know you all over the last I mean, I've been working with him for 15 years now, and I think you go back a few extra years past that with him too.

Has it been? Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. So, and I think Lessons from the Mouse, it was around 2007 or 2008 that that came out. I think that was around the same time Think Like a Black Belt came out. But yeah. Yeah. Time flies by.

I'm older than dirt, for God's sake. Yeah.

There you go. A lot of stages then.

Before we sign off, let's make sure people understand how to get get in touch with you if they want to book you for speaking or book you for the workshops. And again, it's been a blessing. People are getting sick of hearing this, but especially, you know, as we launch the new show here, it's, you know, I'm making endorsements for the people I'm sharing with you because I know these folks, you know. Yeah, it's not just— I don't bring them on the show because they're my friends, all right? They're my friends because they're people that I'm willing to share with you. And that's— I think that's really important. Um, so yeah, let's, let's talk about how to get in touch with you.

For sure.

Yeah.

Uh, so our, our website for Snow Associates, the, the website's www.snowassociates.com. Uh, there you will learn about our, our programming info. That's going to be me and then Dennis Snow, my father, as well. There, there's info on there, uh, for both of us. And I'm on LinkedIn. You can find me, name is, is Danny Snow. And yeah, I would love the opportunity to, to connect with, with your network at all if there's ever anything that we can do. Feel free to reach out to me and my email address is just danny@snowassociates.com.

So, so yeah, if you use the Google AI and you put in family dressed in Disney swag, Danny and his family are going to pop up.

You saw that picture I just posted the other day from our time out in Disneyland. One of my all-time favorite family pictures. So yeah, we love it. Can't say enough great things about it. Obviously, we know they're not a perfect organization. There is no such thing, but they do it better than anybody else, I think.

There you go. And I'm glad you're carrying that banner. Okay, Danny, thanks so much for being with us today again. Thank you. And this will be the first of many. We'll have Danny back to get involved more with, you know, with everything that's going on here. Make sure you get into the Keep It Human Network. The link will be below me here, and go over there. We have a free forever membership, and then there's some tiered plans for people who want to get into it deeper. And we're going to have Danny and Dennis and some other folks on our live streams there too, where you'll be able to interact with them, you know, one-on-one and in small group settings. So that's all coming up, but you got to be part of the network to, to find out what's going on there. So Keep It Human Network, come on board. All right, Danny, thank you again so much. It's a pleasure.

Thank you, Jim Bouchard.