Let's find our courage, strength and productive energy––even now!

Well, in just a minute, I'm going to bring on a very dear friend, David Lee. He's, uh, he's the founder of Human Nature at Work, and he's one, one of America's best, if not the world's best, in, uh, human relations, human resources, employee relations, culture in the workplace. Just an amazing, amazing person, and it's wonderful mentor to me. And it's so, so it's just a cool thing to be able to share so many of these people with you. And when I got into the speaking business in the first place, David was one of the people who really, really helped me and gave me a lot of guidance. So just an honor to bring him on. One quick thing, I didn't put up the promo yet, but I will before I go to sleep tonight. People have been asking about the sit still, shut up, and breathe relaxation technique stuff. And I'm, I'm gonna, uh, do— I'll do a live stream in the morning, and then I'll do another one next week. So if people want a little bit of help with that, and then of course you can get that package for free, we'll give you the, uh, the links to that. But we'll actually do some, uh, we'll do a couple meditation exercises, show you some tricks of the trade, and then we'll, we'll do that in the morning. And that'll be a short one. So without further ado, I'd like to bring on my dear friend mentor, great mind. What else could I say about you? And as always, we want to hear your comments, we want to hear your ideas and suggestions and whatnot. So I see a few people are already joining us, so make sure you get into that comment stream and, and, uh, and we'll make sure we're paying attention and we'll, we'll respond to your comments and pop you up here. Okay, so David, this is a cool one because I should tell people how this got started. You sent me a note asking me about, um, you know, some experiences where I might have found strength, reserves of strength that I didn't know I had, because you, you know my sordid past, I guess, is why you're asking about that. And courage, we were talking about courage. So, uh, we'll turn the tables. I'll let you ask me questions to start off with if you want.

Thanks. Yeah, so just to put the, the question in context, so I'm pulling together a compilation from people from all different kinds of backgrounds on their perspective on dealing with change, challenge, and uncertainty, staying out of fear, discovering they have more courage than they, than they think they do. And so given your experience as a martial artist, and then also in boxing, I just, and so obviously some extreme experiences having to face fear and discover your courage. So yeah, I wanted to hear what you've learned over the years, um, based on that experience.

It was interesting, you know, when, when I was thinking about that question, and sometimes— isn't it weird how we, you know, we go through life and sometimes we have remarkable experiences and they're not top of mind all the time, right? And one of them, and this came up in a stream not too long ago, was I was a firefighter for a while when I was a, a kid, when I was just out of high school— well, in high school and then just out of high school. I started a volunteer department as a junior squad member, which meant they still threw us into every dangerous situation. We just couldn't drive the trucks. And then eventually, when you turned 18, you could, you could learn how to drive the trucks and stuff like that. So that was, I think, the first time I really experienced that externally anyway, you know, being in a situation that was life or death. And, uh, was in a couple of those situations. And so one of the things that that came to mind when you asked that question was sometimes we don't notice those things when we're in the middle of it. You know, we don't notice the intensity of it. We're in the middle of it. We're just working the problem and dealing with, you know, whatever situation is in front of us. It's not till afterwards we sometimes turn around and you say, wow, you know, that took, that took something to get through that. And the reason that was important, the reason that came to mind, is because when you, when you asked about that You know, I thought there are a lot of people right now that wonder if they have the fortitude to get through this. And for some people, if this is your first really big challenge, yeah, you really don't know. This is how you find out, right? This is how you find out. You put one foot in front of the other, you work the task, you work the problem that's in front of you, and then eventually you'll turn around and say, wow, yeah, I really did have it. And, and I believe strongly that, you know, almost all of us do. But it, but it are, it's these situations that test us, right? I mean, we can read about courage, we can, you know, idolize people we think display courage, but we never really manifest courage until there's actual danger. I mean, that's what it is.

Yes. So anyway, yeah, yeah, it draws, it provides the experience to draw out our courage. I'm curious, and I've got a few thoughts that I want to share about that, but before I do, I'm actually hearkening back to a conversation we had like millions of years ago when you were in the ring. Was it Joey Gamache?

Oh yeah.

Talk about a blast from the past. And I would love to hear what you had to share in terms of, you know, getting knocked down and being willing to get back up and what that taught you.

And, you know, there's that old adage in martial arts, knock down 7 times, get up 8, right?

There you go.

I never— I, I don't remember exactly where the different, um, streams came together. I never fought Joey Gamache. I actually chickened out.

Oh, I thought you fought him. Okay.

No, no, I was at a gym. I was at his gym, his dad's gym, where he was training. And, and Joey was, you know, was a friend at the time, and, and his dad. And, uh, Joey was training for one of his world championship fights. And I, even then, I outweighed— I outweighed him by about 40, 45 pounds, you know, but I'm watching him work the heavy bag, and Joey's dad said, hey, you need some guys to go a couple rounds with Joey. And part of me said, yeah, man, just to be in the ring with the champ, wouldn't that be cool? And then something told me, nah, I'm not going there. I wish I had. In hindsight, I really wish I had, because just to have that experience. But I'm sure he would have tooled up my ribs pretty good.

So I, yeah, so maybe I'm, um, conflating a couple of things. What was the situation where he told you some of your friends were telling you, get up, get up. Yeah, yeah, you're like, come on, guy, you know, looking back.

Yeah, yeah, that was, that was my first sanctioned fight. And I always tell the story when I'm speaking because, uh, yeah, got in the ring. Um, first of all, I was supposed to fight— I started fighting, I remember telling you this, when I was, uh, about 33 years old. That's stupid enough, you know, but it was part of, uh, it's part of trying to reclaim some of my life from having been a drug addict and whatnot. I was trying to catch up for lost time. And so when I got the opportunity to box, I took it. And yeah, it was my birthday. Some friends, uh, came to see me fight ringside. I was supposed to fight a guy who was about the same age as me, about the same experience, but he scratched. He had the flu, and they replaced him with a young guy who was tall like you and had arms like an eagle, right? They called me Penguin, you know what I'm saying? That's how I picked up that nickname. So I love it. At any rate, Yeah, he's a nice guy. We shook hands. Let's get it on. He turned me into a human Pez dispenser first round, right? And he, yeah, and he knocked me down. I remember laying there. There are my buddies at ringside and they're yelling, you know, get up, get up. 'Cause I always ask when I'm speaking, what do you think they yell? They, everyone says stay down. No, no, no, no, not these vultures, right? Get up. Anyway, I, I did get up and I finished the round. I don't know how I was, you know, half unconscious at that point. Didn't answer my trainer during the, during the intermission there. And so finally he threw in the towel. And somehow, I don't know, when the towel goes by, all of a sudden we're okay, right? I don't know how that works, how our brains function. But I'm arguing with him, and then finally I turn around and look. This is where the Joey Gamache thing is. See, I thought that guy's trainer looked familiar. And my trainer kept saying, don't worry about it. I said, yeah, you don't worry about it. You're not fighting today anyway. After I got my brains rattled around, it dawned on me. I said, I know that guy, it's Tony Lampron. And Tony Lampron was Joey Gamache's trainer, one of them. And I was fighting Tony's kid.

So that's what it was. Oh my God.

Yeah, these guys set me up pretty good. But anyway, you know, when I asked the question, I'm speaking and I say, you know, these guys were yelling, get up, get up. I wanted them to yell, stay down, you guys love me, stay down, right? And I realized I was wrong. That's really the lesson of the story, and I think that's important in this situation, right? We want people in our corner, uh, when we're taking the knocks. And hey, day by day, people are going to be taking more knocks with this thing, right? Whether it's financial, whether it's emotional, uh, you know, we're starting to see some of the effects, right, from people being isolated. And, you know, we want people around us that are able to say, hey, you're strong enough, right? Which is one of the themes you wanted to talk about. You're strong enough, you can get in there, get back in the fight, right? So, so I learned to appreciate those vultures that took delight in seeing— oh man, one guy, I remember I was in New York CEO Club and I was telling that story. One of the guys said, Jim, you just talked about compassion and stuff for an hour, and then you tell us about these guys that, you know, were delighted in seeing you get pounded. And I said, well, it only cost them $5. It was cheap entertainment.

Well, you know, there are a couple of things that you bring up that I'd love to speak to too. And one of the things, when you talked about, um, people who say you're strong enough, and it reminds me of something, um, of the wisest friend that I have that, um, has been a real spiritual mentor for me. And one of the things that she talks about is holding the vision for somebody else. And I think that's one of the greatest gifts of a friend, is to be able to see like their, their greatness inside of them that maybe they don't, or in the moment they don't. And that's what one of the videos I love sharing at workshops. Have you ever seen the, the Britain's Got Talent video of Jonathan and Charlotte?

Doesn't ring a bell.

Yeah, definitely recommend people to watch that because Jonathan is this really socially awkward, um, super low-esteem kind of guy. Um, and Charlotte is his buddy and they go on Britain's Got Talent. Good old Simon Cowell. So you know what he's like. And it's such an amazing video when this, uh, Jonathan and Charlotte go out and seeing the audience response and Simon's response at looking at them, particularly Jonathan. And then what happens when they start to sing and, and they, they, uh, edit in clips of the interviews of the two and a little bit of Jonathan's backstory. And it's just such a great example of the power of someone who believes in you. So I think that's one of the things that on both sides of the equation is so important at this time, both to make sure we're connecting with people who can see us, not just, it's a gift in itself to see, to be seen both for our, our strengths and also our, you know, idiosyncrasies and our wackiness and our flaws and to be able to be seen with compassion. It's also such a gift, as you know, to have people in our lives who can see the, the, um, like the superhero in us when we can't.

Yeah.

So, and you think about how good you feel when you do that for other people.

Right. Right.

Yeah.

It actually activates hormones and whatnot, right?

You got big time. You got it. It's one of the best. And that's one of the things later I'd love to talk more about is practical ways of changing our biochemistry, our hormones or neurotransmitters. And that's one of them. So, both making sure we're talking with people who can see the strength in us when we can't. And then also when, kind of like your friends who were saying, get up versus stay down. One of the things I think is that it's, and I heard this from somebody else I loved it. It's so important to have people in our life who are both the teddy bears and the sandpaper. And so it's important to have people who, when we're really feeling down, who can like, you know, I feel your pain, you know, I know it's hard. Because sometimes that's what we need. And then it's also important to have the people who are like, hey, you know, cowboy up, get back on your horse and ride. And as a friend, I think it's important for us to know which to be at what time. And I think sometimes it's just helpful to be the teddy bear first. And then when the person is feeling heard, then we can shift in and not bludgeon the person, but maybe being gently challenging of them.

Yeah, yeah.

Do you know what I'm saying?

No, that makes a lot of sense. And for the folks that are tuning in now, uh, make sure— yeah, share your ideas. I mean, you know, we're bringing up these different, these different situations, different, uh, ideas and suggestions, strategies if you will, right? But, uh, make sure you chime in because you've got some I'm sure we can, we can benefit from. Yeah, share with other folks. If you got questions too, that's cool. While you're here with David Lee, I mean, it's a great chance to ask him, uh, anything you'd like. Right. Yeah, but I agree with you. You know, that thing about the— and because you know me, we're cheating a little bit, but you know, I've, I've been, uh, very, uh, candid with you in that one of the struggles in my life— and people don't realize this— is, uh, I constantly struggle with confidence. And you're absolutely right. We don't want just the yes, yes guy in front of us all the time. But once in a while, we need somebody, right, that looks at us and sees more in us than we do. And I, and I Right. And those of us who do this kind of profession, I think it's one of the symptoms of our profession that we tend to be highly self-critical. Right?

Yes.

So it's nice to have somebody once in a while say, "Hey, you're doing okay." Big time.

And also, you're mentioning that, Jim, makes me think of— I encourage people to Google Pygmalion effect or Rosenthal effect and the research on the power of how we see somebody and how that affects them. There's also A couple of techniques that I've used over the years, both for myself and then working with other people, in terms of recognizing that we're much stronger than we think we can, is what I call the two. One is, if I could handle that, I can handle this experience or experiences. And then what I think of as, I didn't think I could, but I did. And it's so interesting you mentioned being a firefighter, Jim Bouchard, because one of the things that I think about is, and I really encourage listeners to, to think about this in their own life, is so when we're faced with some major challenge, so let's say what's going on now, or losing a job or losing a relationship, whatever it is, when we see the challenge, it looks so big. And we think about, like, do I have what it takes to handle it? When we sort of take measure of ourselves, unless, and I typically use, unless you're a firefighter, OK, I use that example, unless you're a firefighter, a police officer, in the military, jobs that take a lot of physical courage, most of us in everyday life aren't doing jobs that take tremendous courage. And so when we assess, like, do I have what it takes? And let's say we look back at the last 6 months or last year, last 2 years. And we, we assess how much courage we've shown, we're like, I don't have what it takes. But that's because we're not doing those kinds of jobs. But if we look like the whole expanse of our life, we're bound to come up with a bunch of experiences. Yeah, that revealed the courage we have. And so those are what I call, if I could handle this, I could handle that, number 1. So let me give you an example. The, one of the examples that I hearken back to, and, and, you know, being, you know, self-employed, there's lots of outreach and all that. And for me, being an introvert, like not my favorite thing in the world, but one of the things I remind myself is the, like, I put myself through college, you know, working summer jobs and working during the year. And I didn't have enough money to have a car. And I got tired of hitchhiking. This is back in the day when hitchhiking wasn't totally insane. Back then. And so I got tired of hitchhiking. And so I couldn't afford a car on like minimum wage jobs. And a classmate of mine told me how much money he had made the summer before selling books door-to-door. And I'm thinking, sweet, I see a car in my future. And fortunately, and so I signed up. Fortunately, I didn't think it through, because I was so painfully shy that I wouldn't even smile at a stranger. Let's say I'm going through the grocery store. I wouldn't smile at the clerk. Jerk. Because if they didn't smile back, I would feel crushed. Yeah. And rejected. And believe me, selling books door to door, having somebody not smile at you.

That's a tough gig. That's in the best of situations.

That's a tough gig. Oh my God. Yeah. That was like a good day was just people not smiling at you. And that summer, every day was outside my comfort zone. It was brutal. But I tell you, the difference between me at the end of the summer versus before— things at the beginning of the summer that I was like, "Oh, this was a big deal," at the end of the summer, it's like, "Pfft, whatever," you know, because that trial by fire, I discouraged the courage that I had. So one of the things— and I developed way more resilience. So one of the things I encourage listeners or viewers is think about your own experience where it took a lot of courage, it took a lot of grit, a lot of persistence, and to use those as reminder of just how strong you are, how brave you are.

Yeah, yeah.

The, the other one, and actually you were there, this other one, Jim, and this is an example that I still reflect back on of, of the "I didn't think that I could, but I did" story. And so it was that fundraiser that we were part of. Do you remember the Cancer Community Center?

Right, right.

And I don't know if you know this backstory, but when I approached the executive director at the Cancer Community Center, she asked about, about, like, how would you like me to put together a fundraiser, a couple of others, a few other speakers and I, and we'll talk about things related to personal development, courage, blah, blah, blah. She's like, that's awesome. Can you be the MC?. And inside I'm like, no, like one of those slow-mo things in the movies. Because even though I, at the time I'd been speaking for many, many years, again, I mentioned I'm an introvert. And so I had never seen myself as somebody could do like an MC kind of thing.

Different role.

Yeah, absolutely.

You know what's ironic about that? Because, you know, I, I still admire you greatly, but I remember thinking at that time. I said, wow, I admire this guy. He's so smooth. He's so calm. He's doing, you know, you're doing all that stuff. And people don't realize that, right? That sometimes, you know, that's what it takes. Courage is not— I'm going to pump up one of my— actually, this is weird because for years— yes, I talk about a lack, well, lack of confidence. I used to come up with these things and I would attribute it to somebody else because I didn't think anybody would care if I said it. This is something I put in. And, you know, there's a lot of people who have expressed this different ways. But this is one of the things I put in The Sensei Leader is that courage is not the absence of fear. The absence of fear is stupidity.

Yes.

You know, General Patton said it nicely where he said he never saw a, a break— a person going— an intelligent person go into battle without fear, because the intelligent person knows what the situation is, right?

Yeah.

And so this idea of courage, I think, is we've got to carefully define it. And, you know, it's easy— I always looked at it that there's three ways, three types of courage. There's heroic courage, like you described someone puts themselves in physical danger. And that's the simplest one. You know, you see it, it's tangible. If someone runs into a fire, if somebody's, you know, dives in front of a— push you out of the way of a car, that's, that's very tangible. Okay, I do believe most of us are capable of that when the situation presents itself. Then, um, then there's this idea of artistic courage. That's what you were just talking about, speakers and trainers and anybody that has to stand in front of people or musicians, musicians present their ideas to public, right? Okay. And then there's moral courage, which is courage to do the right thing.

Yes.

And those, the last two that I talked about, you know, those take on different shapes. And people too often just look for the heroic courage, the expression of heroic courage. But it's heroic enough to get through your day and take care of yourself, you know what I mean? And so I agree with you, you look for the— who's the guy who just wrote the thing about the Small, big victories, right? The how important it is that we take those small victories and we recognize ourselves for it, recognize other people for it as leaders as well.

Well, I know Teresa Amabile, spelled Amabile, she wrote Power of Small Wins.

And yeah, I think it had something to do with that. I never remember the attributions.

That's your thing. I love it. I'd love to go back to your, when you said about you thought I seemed so calm, because It makes, brings up another point. And then I want to get back to that event because—

Hong, you look like, you kidding me? I was like, I'm not worthy. This guy's the best. What the hell am I doing here?

And so, you know, and that's what you think about. What a great reminder for all of us. And I know you know this, but something, you know, for to remind the listener, the viewer is to beware of comparing our inner world with other people's external world. Because we don't know the turmoil inside of them. We just know what they're presenting. And especially, I mean, back to boxing. I couldn't imagine the— I was blown away when I saw the Mike Tyson documentary. And when— and there was this thing where he almost started to cry when he talked about how terrified he was. And like, Mike Tyson? You're kidding me. But we don't know. And so that's a really important reminder. But here's the thing about, so that event that I really want people to hear. And actually what was interesting at that event, I wasn't nervous, which blew me away. All these years. Yeah. All these years I was, I was like, I just don't have this, that schmoozing gene in me. So here's what happened. So at the end of it, and it was, do you remember how awesome that audience was?

They were. Yeah, that was a great day.

Wasn't that? Oh my God, that was awesome. And so at the end of it, one of my friends who was there said, how'd you like it? I said, oh, it was wonderful. I loved the audience. It felt, you know, things went well, blah, blah, blah. And she said, you know, what stood out for you? Any takeaways? And I'm just like, hmm, let me think. And then suddenly it hit me. And I said, Do you remember in my talk when I turned about challenge, I talked about challenging limiting beliefs and like not believing the stories you tell yourself about what you can't do? And she's like, oh yeah, definitely. That's, you know, something I need to work on. So something like that. I said, you know, it just hit me. What hit me was all these years I've told myself, you can't be an MC. You don't have it in you. And not only was I able to do it, but I enjoyed it and it was easy. And then here we go. I thought, what else have you been telling yourself all these years that you can't do and you can? And so I really hugely encourage listener/watcher to think about their own version of the, I didn't think I could, but I did experience so that when they're in the moment, feeling daunted by something to like, wait a minute, I've got these experiences in my, like, library, if you will. This can be one of those too.

You're doing it right now. I mean, these, these situations— I mean, those of us who are a little long in the tooth, you know, we've lived through a couple of these things, but a lot of people are going through this type of situation for the first time, you know. This one Well, they're all a little bit different in their own way, right? This one's certainly a little bit different than anything I've experienced. But you— yeah, I'm going to reinforce what you said. Uh, you are going through this right now. Now, it's hard when you're in the middle of it to really have the perspective, right, to say, oh, this is something that, that I'm going to learn from and grow from. And you know how I, I don't like the Pollyannish, oh, every, uh, failure is a lesson crap.

You know what I mean?

It is if you wring that lesson out of it. If you if you're willing to do the work, right? I don't think it whacks you over the head, but, um, yeah, you are going through this right now. So think about every little thing that you're doing to manage this, or particularly, and particularly the isolation thing, because that's pretty different. I know we have the technology, but it's not the same. Hey, Jeff Lampkins, an old friend, martial arts friend, he put this in. Mike Tyson said once, fear is my friend. If I don't have it, I don't fight.

Oh, cool.

Yeah. Yeah, no, that's, that's a cool thing. That, in that documentary, I encourage people to watch that. I came away with a much different perspective of Mike Tyson as a person.

Yes.

And you, and you hit the nail right on the head. I think it's, and I think it's so important that people recognize this right now, especially. I've been hearing this a lot from people who are working in retail and the food services right now. I know the lines are long, I know the shelves are sometimes bare, and people are impatient, okay? But we don't know what that other person is dealing with, right? We don't know what that other person is dealing with. And Alex told me a story, um, and thanks again, Alex, for working behind the scenes. She gets the comments in, and she, um, she said there was a story that just circulated about a woman who was trying to get a roll of toilet paper and someone else pushed in front of her and grabbed the toilet paper, you know. And these are the types of things we're seeing, right? We've got to take a step back and we've got to understand that. And it would take some strength to step back and say, 'Leo, I'm going to let that other person have the last roll.' That takes strength. That's an act of courage right there. And these things that we're talking about, to me, courage, uh, compassion, wisdom in the right application— these should not be reserved for elite classes of people. These should be commonplace. We all display courage to some degree. But as you said, We've got to take some inventory, right, and sit down and go through our lives and, and say, you know, when does this happen? And I'll admit this openly, like I said, I don't think it's so long ago, for one thing, but I don't think about what I went through as a firefighter very often and the things that I've seen and experienced there. And, uh, once in a while it's nice to bring that up and say, right, to get the perspective, to say, okay, well, yeah, we're I'm facing some challenges now, but I faced that.

Absolutely.

Right? So this, absolutely. I can, I can manage this. Sure.

So a couple points related to that, Jim. So one is, that's why, like, if people think of what's homework, like, how can I make this useful to me? I strongly recommend, I'm actually putting together, like a handout on this. I can, however you want to do it, like show notes or however is useful for you, that to make a list of situations where you've, you've had to overcome a challenge. So the "If I could handle that, I can handle this," in situations where you thought you couldn't do something, you did. Yeah, to go ahead and do that ahead of time. And later on in the, in this livestream, I'd love to share another story that I feel like can be one of the most useful perspectives.

Oh, absolutely. And this is how you get, this is how you get in touch with Dave, by the way, humannatureatwork.com. And, and yeah, definitely get on his radar.

Yeah. Thanks. And feel free to link in on LinkedIn. There's two other things that you mentioned, Jim, that I want to highlight because they're so important. So when you mention to people about check out the Mike Tyson documentary, I also recommend the Meat Loaf one.

Yeah.

Not Meat Loaf the meal, but Meat Loaf the singer.

Oh, oh, oh!

Yeah, I know you know. I know for other people, maybe.

I had no idea he had been through so many things.

Yeah. And this is, so one of my favorite sayings, and it, actually, I might share this story real quickly. Let me, okay, I'll share the story and then I'll share the Meatloaf reference. Okay. So, in a previous career, I was a hypnotist, a hypnotherapist. And so I'd work with trauma survivors. Yeah, I don't even know that. Yeah, I'm not staged, but clinical. So I used to use hypnosis, used to teach all around the country. And I tell you, that makes you a believer in the mind-body connection. So here we go. So when I was first learning it, my then-wife would be my main practice subject. And so it worked. And so, and she was actually a great hypnotist. Let me give you an example of how amazing it was, hypnosis was, that there was a time She couldn't find a file folder in her home office and, um, helped her go into a hypnotic state. And I said, like, your unconscious mind knows where you put it. She gets up, she goes into her home office and finds where she misfiled it.

Hmm.

So yeah. So here's what happened when our daughter Jessie was, let's say, whatever, 2 years old and she was learning to walk. One of the first things that she did was take this key from this locked Bookcase. Open up the bookcase. Oh, I'm sorry. Take the key and lose it. And so I have all the, some of my favorite professional books locked into this bookcase. And I looked everywhere, couldn't find it. And months went on. And I finally really need, I was like speaking at a conference. I needed some of these books. I was too cheap to bring somebody out to the house and I wasn't going to haul the bookcase out there. And so I figured, last-ditch Hail Mary effort. So I asked my wife, my wife at the time, like, are you up for like seeing if maybe, you know, we'll work some magic? So she's like, sure. So have a, you know, help her go into a hypnotic trance, say, you know, your unconscious mind can discover where this might be. She, she comes out and she goes into the couch and we had already looked there, but she went like even deeper under the cushions and the far reaches and finds the key. Okay, I open it up and now I've got my books. And I thought, isn't this a great metaphor for life? Now think about this, all the, you know, months on end, you're feeling thwarted, like what you want, you can't get to. It's like taunting you. And then suddenly you get the key and it's there. It's like, All that frustration, all the hassle, all the wanting and not having, it evaporates. And here's the takeaway. Everything can change in an instant. And so with Meatloaf, if you remember that in, in that documentary, he talked about Bat Out of Hell. No producer wanted to hear about it because he had those long epic songs until a 15-minute call with whoever that producer was. The guy gets it and it becomes like a mega—

Clive Davis, I think it was. Yeah.

Is that who it was? Yeah. So his whole life changed with one 15-minute phone call after, I think it was like a year and a half of nothing.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, exactly. I mean, and you know, that speaks to person. We, this is a, this came in on text. Let's put this up. Cause a lot of people are thinking about this and I just typed it in over here. Yeah, what if we really, really feel we don't have the strength to face some of this, especially the idea that I might never run out of money? And that, boys, that's a, that's a real threat right now. Yeah, yeah, it's a real threat right now. I don't know, I have a couple of ideas about that. First of all, I'm going to say this if it, if it helps at all. We all feel that way from time to, from time to time, or most of us have been in that experience, uh, you know, spirit of full disclosure. I spent some of my life as a drug addict, and especially when I was recovering from that, there were many times when I just didn't know. I didn't know if I was going to eat. I didn't know if I was going to be able to scrape it. You know, I had plenty of money for dope, right? But rent and heating oil just seemed to be low priorities at the time. Uh, it does— it was self-imposed, but it doesn't diminish the fears. What I came to realize though, if this helps at all, and I think it was my mom that really instilled this in me, I started to realize what I needed to do was just be grateful for what I had, and however little that was at the time. It may be that all I had was a place to be in from the cold, right? Uh, maybe that it was my next meal. But I, and I actually, I still do this to this day. All I do, I don't have a fancy gratitude practice, just, I just say thank you, right? And I force myself to do that once in a while. Now what that does, and it's a very practical thing, it helps me focus on what I do have, because we have more than we think we do. Always. It helps me focus on what I do have, how little that might be, instead of obsessing over what I don't have at the time. Now, on a very practical side though too, and a lot of people have been asking these questions, David, so, um, you know, we're trying to share some more resources. Uh, there is, there is help on the way. Um, if you're living in Maine, because a lot of our viewers do, because we're all over the country, all over the world right now. In fact, we've got some people listening from Africa right now. It's kind of cool. But, um, yeah, there are programs on the way. This is happening so fast, they don't have the infrastructure to deal with it right now. Okay, but we've heard that there are links going up, and many states reporting this. If, for instance, the unemployment compensation is supposed to come out, the extra for solopreneurs, self-employed people, things like that, supposedly within the next few days most of the states are going to have that up and running. We're hearing that the $1,200 per person rebate that's coming, they're saying April 6th, it's going to start rolling out. But I'm going to say this too: reach out. All right, it's always worse when you're by yourself. Reach out, call. A lot of folks have been calling the SBA. We've been hearing nothing but good reports about people's dealings with the SBA. They've been patient, they've been as informative as they can be. Just be patient with them because they don't have all the answers. Right now either, right? And I think the same thing with some of, uh, the various state facilities we've heard. But again, yeah, I can't emphasize that enough. Please be patient with them. They're dealing, right? Our friend Dove Baron, who was on the stream— well, I was on his stream the other day, and he talked about his background in psychology, right? He talked about the idea that we tend to personalize these things, and that's what makes it bigger, right? But that monster is always bigger in the closet. When you open the door, turn on the light, he shrinks right away. And so to reach out to network with some other people, and that's, you know, that's what a lot of these live streams are all about, you know, just— and that's why I said participate, get in the comment stream there if you've got a concern like that. Thanks for sharing that, um, whoever did. I'm sorry, I didn't look at the text. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

Also, what that makes me think about, actually, uh, one thing I want to link back to something that you said that I really liked. That's great, that's great.

Easy for him to say.

Well, maybe last week I want to loop back to something you mentioned about compassion, and then, um, and then related to about the feeling bad and feeling scared piece. So one of the things that I, that I found to be helpful is, and I remember hearing it from Pema Chödrön So P-E-M-A, and then Chodron, C-H-O-D-R-O-N, who's a Buddhist teacher. And so it's a Buddhist tradition, teaching. And it's, you know, not just Buddhism. Oh, and I want to get back to gratitude, Jim. I'm so glad you mentioned that. OK. And one of the practices that I love that I, that I work with is when you're, when you're going through a hard time, or your, your heart's breaking, or you're scared, it's, while it's unfortunately, or I shouldn't say unfortunately, while it's natural for that to like pull us in and become very self-centered and look personalized, as you said, it's a great—

It's your survival mechanism.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a great, this is where being mindful and intentional to offset that survival mechanism is so important is to consciously think about all the people in the world who are feeling the same way. And I've, I've found over the years, like, I know sometimes it's easy to get cynical when we're going through a hard time. Like, I don't care about the starving people in whatever country. I care about me. It's like, okay, you can go there if you want. It doesn't really serve you, right? That even though knowing that other people have it worse than me, it doesn't change my situation. But what it does is it change— it can, if I choose to, it can change my feeling and my attitude toward it, which is, you know, fan of Pliny the Elder and other Stoic philosophers. I love Pliny. I actually use that as a joke with friends because I just think that name is so perfect. Pliny the Elder.

I always wonder, is it Pliny the Elder? And the only reason there is a Pliny the Elder, because apparently there was a Pliny the Younger.

Exactly.

I didn't even know if they were related.

I love it. I love it. So I don't want to lose this thread, though. And so one of the things that, that, that, that good old Pema helps remind me is when I'm feeling small and scared or sad for myself, to just feel that kinship with all the other people who are feeling that way. And, you know, nothing works for everybody. Think of like whatever we're sharing is a cafeteria. For me, that really works. The other point that you brought up, Jim, and I do want to make sure we have time for other strategies about how to boost our emotional state to more empowered, is when you talked about gratitude practice. And two, two things related to that. One is a quick story and one is a book. A friend of mine, I loved, we're talking about how both of us took real seriously trying to raise our, her children, me child, with an attitude of gratitude and how important that is. And I love what one of the things that she said, well, you know, Fran, Fran said, yeah, yeah. How she, and hopefully I, it's not verbatim, but I do it justice where she said something one time to her two daughters, like, you really like all this good stuff that your dad and I give you and all that, right? Like, oh yeah, that's great. It's like, well, this is how life works. If you want want more of that good stuff, appreciate what you got. And, and it's like, that's how life works. And the book— and this is not the exact title, but if you, if you like go to Amazon and you put in Greg Braden, and it's like B-R-A-D-E-N, and I think it's The Lost Art of Prayer or Lost Code of Prayer or something like that. Maybe somebody on the line could quickly Go to, go to Google. And I mean, Amazon and find out and put it up there, but here's the takeaway message, which is super important. So when he studied all kinds of both religious and spiritual texts about what's the like common denominator with the power of prayer, what he came up with is all the different like verbiage and rituals and incantations or whatever. The end result was these were just methodologies to get you into the emotional state of gratitude that it's happened, that this thing that you want has happened. And that is, I know you know, Jim, but I want to send this out to people who don't. And by being in that emotional state, it informs the quantum feeled like it's happened and like amazing stuff starts to happen.

And so it shifts, it shifts your attention like he just said, you know, it's that red, the red car syndrome, right? Nobody has a red car till you have one, and then all of a sudden you notice that, you know, there's, there's abundance of it. Somebody just put— this is an interesting one again, this came in from, uh, outside, but Oh, the electrons are slow. So, so people know, I, I'm not saying these things— you were— I'm typing them in from somewhere. I can't stand how rich people are telling me to just relax. That's— yeah, interesting thing, you know. And they're dealing with their own stuff. One thing I don't know— I gotta tell you, I was kind of put, put back by Madonna in her bathtub with the rose petals the other day. Yeah, I thought that was kind of tone deaf, but I don't know what's going on in her head anyway, you know. She's a human being like anyone else, but I'd have to, I'd have to say this one in response. Um, we've got bigger things to worry about than, you know, what rich people are telling us to do if we're not in that same, if we don't have those resources. And, and I think in their own way, some of those folks, I hope this comes out the right way, I do think that most of them are sincerely just trying to make us all feel better. And, you know, they just don't have the same perspective as average people like us who are you know, more or less living, if not day to day, year to year or whatever. But remember this too, I mean, because David, you know, you and I have both had our ups and downs in life. I mean, sometimes we've been on top, and I've learned never to base my happiness on anything that can be taken away from me because it can. And I've been very comfortable when I've been reduced to zero. And you know, this could do it again, uh, and the only reason— and believe me, I've had my moments. I don't want anybody to think that I haven't. I just try to do it behind closed doors, right? Throw some things around. But the thing is, I know that no matter what happens, knock down 7 times, get up 8. I live by that.

Yes.

If we go to zero, we're going to come back stronger.

And I want to address that, Jim, because the knock down 7, get up 8, and it actually speaks to something. Again, I know I posted something about this, but I loved your livestream with Joe Callaway. And I have a different perspective, but it's, then one of the things that you two talked about And I want to clarify why it's different. So, I don't remember, obviously, the exact words you used, but you said something about, I'm not a unicorns and rainbows person. Like, there's a silver lining here.

Lollipops and puppy dogs.

There we go. There we go. There we go. And so, yeah, one of the great, best ways to have somebody want to punch you in the face is for them to, you know, say, oh, there's a hidden good thing here. You know, that kind of thing. Show it to me, right? That being said, here's, here's my different perspective on this, that, and it kind of gets back to the comment about rich people saying, just relax. And this is where emotional intelligence comes into, comes into play. That, yes, if somebody's on the ground bleeding, it's not the time to say, you know, there's a hidden, you know, silver lining here. So that's where And I'll just speak for me, like what works for me. Okay. That if I'm, if I'm in a, there've been times when I'm in a real, I can't see the forest for the trees kind of place. And I'm stuck in my drama. And if a friend of mine who I know who's been knocked down 7 times and has gotten up 8 times, If I know they've been through the school of hard knocks and they're wise, and if they say to me something like, what's your sense about what might be the gift in this? Or what might be a different way of looking? However they say it, I'm thankful for that. Because I know it's coming from a wise place, not like a clueless, what is it, puppy dogs and lollipops kind of, like that, you know, that kind of place. That being said, it takes, you know, it takes some emotional intelligence to know when is that a helpful thing. And one of the things I, that I'll say to people on the other side, like, I don't know how to be helpful for this person. Like, just ask, like, yeah, yeah, would you like me just to listen? Do you want a diff— you know, me to offer some different perspectives, or what would be helpful? So that's kind of both sides. But, but I guess I do want to weigh in on, don't, again, especially if you've got some years behind, behind you and you've had this, you've, you've got a degree in the school of hard knocks, maybe be willing to encourage the person to step away from the drama and look at it. Because I'll tell you, okay, personally, I remember this like it was yesterday, a really hard time in my life. And it wasn't like the only hard time, believe me.

One of the, one of many.

And I remember getting up out of bed. And even though it was like a really like, excuse me, but sucky chapter in my life, I was pumped. And the reason why I was pumped is I'm a big fan of Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey. And I'm like, I'm on my hero's journey. Bring it on. What's going to happen today? Like, who am I going to meet? That will offer me a clue about what to do next. Do you know what I'm saying? And having that curious, that mode of curiosity and like, here I go, even though it gets like a really sucky time, I was pumped to get up and go for it.

I'm trying to think exactly how we phrased it. We got to bring this bumper sticker out again. We made a bumper sticker a while ago. It said, "Celebrate adversity." Yes.

Yes.

It may be your best opportunity to discover the person you might not ever have imagined without it, right?

I love it.

But it doesn't, like I said, and that reminds me of another boxing story because my trainer Dave, who was like a Yoda guy, you know, I mean, the guy had all kinds of wisdom. And this was one of the things he used to say, usually when our nose was hanging off our face. And, you know, and he'd say that, he'd say, hey, you know, you always learn more when you lose. And that's one of those things you don't want to hear at that time, right? And then he'd turn around and he'd come back and he'd say, "But sometimes you don't freaking feel like learning anything, do you?" Right? And so that's the thing. It's in the proper time, right, when you're in the moment and you're dealing with the stress and you're dealing with something that's immediate. It doesn't always feel this. But I love, and I want to hit again what you said about the emotional intelligence because that's such a huge theme. It's such a huge part of what we're doing here at Sensei Leader, right? And there, we've heard wonderful stories. About business leaders who are doing remarkable things. They've been asking, a lot of them have been asking about inspiration. I say, it's not the big grandiose speech that's going to be inspirational right now. It's the small actions. CEOs that are foregoing their pay in order to keep people on the job. CEOs that are reaching out, not just CEOs, but I've heard from a few of them over the last few days, who are just reaching out, doing a bank of phone calls or Zoom meetings with people, all levels, just reaching out and asking. And I put this up a minute ago, but these are the magic words: What can I do for you? Yes, right? That's it. That's simple. That simple act of caring. And the person might say, no, nothing, I'm good. But that's cool. You have no idea how inspirational, how powerful just that gesture is. And so, that emotional intelligence and to be sensitive, you know, Assume— I think it's a safe assumption that the other person's going through some trauma right now. I think that's the safer assumption anyway. And so yeah, sometimes we have to dial it back a little bit and, and just approach things in a little calmer manner, a little less, uh, you know, rather than, oh man, this is the greatest opportunity, we're gonna be— yeah, well, okay, some people can get away with that, but most of us can't, right? It's, it's, uh Better to say, hey, I love what, uh, oh, was the Gravity guy again who just rolled out, and he went in front of his team and he said, well, we're up against it now. And they just came out of a pretty bad situation the last couple years. And he said, here's, here's what we're facing. He got his people together. And I've been saying, you may have to lay people off, you may have to, but call one of us before you do. Call David, call me, call Dove Barrick, call Joe, people that have these resources. He did exactly what I think all of us would recommend. He got everybody in the room and he said, here's where we're at, dollars and cents, everything. What do you guys want to do? Didn't have to let— didn't have to lay off one person.

Oh, sweet.

They all came up right. They, they all shortened their hours. They— and he had a, uh, he had a form that he had them fill out. How much of a pay reduction would you be willing to take? And like often happens in these cases, people were were willing to sacrifice much more than they would have asked for, you see. So it was very interesting. Not everybody, you know, you're not going to get 100% compliance, don't look for that. But I thought that was remarkable. So again, just to reinforce that idea that you said, have, you know, pay some attention to the emotional intelligence aspects of what we're always preaching about, right? You're dealing with people. And right now, I want to hit one more point before I kick it back to you, because it's something you said earlier that went all the way in. I wrote it down and I wanted to make sure we didn't lose it. This feeling of being alone, and you said think about other people that may be in the same situation. Well, right now there's billions, right?

Yeah, yeah.

I'm not trying to be Pollyannish about that, but I mean, we're hit, we're bombarded with these numbers. How many people are contracting the illness? How many people are dying? How many— look, how many people are just in the same situation that we're in? And I mean all over the world. Absolutely all over the world. It's so cool that we can get connected it this way. But, um, yeah, anyway, we're not alone.

A couple of things, Jim, I wanna, um, if we can hit before— I'm paying attention to the time— before we wind up.

Yeah, we have a couple more minutes.

Yeah, yeah. So to the person, um, I mean, this is for everybody, but to the person who's, who's, um, talked about, um, you know, feeling really scared or really feeling bad, there's a really important point I want to make, um, Oh, there we go. Thank you. And that is, it reminds, okay, I'm just going to do the setup and then the concept. It reminds me of good old Zig Ziglar from back in the day when he said something like, he was all about positive thinking. And he said something like, positive thinking doesn't make it so you can do everything, but it can certainly help you do everything better, something to that effect. And so here's, here's, here's my version of this, that, and I know, you know, Jim, from, from being in martial arts and boxing, everything is what elite athletes know is our state determines our performance, that you have to be in a peak state to perform in a peak way. And any elite performer knows that. And just a simple example that we all can relate to. If we're really tired, if we didn't get a good night's sleep, if we're sick or whatever, we're not as creative. We're not as patient. We're not as logical. We're not as brave. And so one of the most important things we can do right now is do things that boost our state. And that doesn't necessarily, obviously, put money in our bank account or save our job or whatever. But it has a huge impact on our ability to respond to whatever happens.

Not directly anyway, not, but it does put money in your bank account.

Exactly. Right.

Okay.

Yes. Indirectly it does.

Good.

Very good point. And so I'm actually working on like a bullet point list of all kinds of ways to boost your state. And I just want to put a plug in for this book, SuperBetter by Jane McGonigal. And I encourage you to watch some of her TED Talks. One of the most powerful principles from SuperBetter is when she talks about power-ups. And people who are video game fans know what a power-up is. But it's anything that, strangely enough, gives you more power in the video game. And in real life, a power-up is anything that boosts your energy level. And the long story short is anything that boosts your emotional state, like watching inspiring video, listening to your favorite Pump You Up music, having a good conversation, playing with your dog, whatever it is, anything that boosts your energy level and your emotional state doesn't just put you in a more resourceful state so you can make the phone call you need to, to make or see the red car that you didn't know, see was there the opportunity, but also it boosts your immune system. It, it strengthens your nervous system to handle difficulty.

I'm sorry, go ahead. No, I said absolutely. I'm just reinforcing it because that's, you know, that's the whole thing. Um, if you— if your confidence or your courage is based on surety of an outcome, 99 times out of 100, you're in for a rude awakening, right? You can only base your, your confidence— and this is a hard lesson I had to learn in my life— on training and preparation. You see, and this is a perfect option. I love what you're saying because one of the things you can do to really boost yourself— there's a lot of people who are on screech mode right now and are running 90 miles an hour and, and working 12, 14 hours, working more than they were going to the office. Of course, there's people that are still going to their jobs too, and their, their demands are even more, especially as crews are cut down and whatnot, and people are impatient. But there's also a lot of people with a lot of time on their hands suddenly. Even if it's just your drive time that you suddenly don't have to deal with. What— that's the opportunity to train, prepare, read the books that we're talking about, right? Get on these online courses. There's so many resources available to us now. If you're watching this, you have access to that. Absolutely right. And that's where you're going to come out of it better and stronger than you were before. And those are the things, right? There's a study done just on reading, how it affects our mental state. Right? Um, so yeah, no, definitely. What, what better time? What better time? What's your pump-me-up one?

Yeah, so yeah, right, actually, one of— so one of my go-tos, it's— I feel kind of funny saying this, but man, it works like a charm for me— is I'll go onto YouTube and put in epic battle music, Cry of the Valkyries and all that. Yeah, man, I I tell you, and it's not just, um, for like, okay, I can handle this, that I, um, I'll, I'll like work out to it. And some of my most creative ideas come from that. Um, working out is—

why do you think we had walk-on music? There you go. Not for the audience.

I love it. You've got it. And so, yeah, highly— that's actually one of my points for people. Play whatever music like jacks you up. That's absolutely— I do want to make sure I want to end off with this story because it ties into your red car analogy. And I think it's, to me, it's one of the most useful perspectives I've— I didn't make it up, but I use. So, and actually, I shared this story at that event that we both spoke at. And, and so here's the concept and then the story. And the concept is tune your brain to notice the opportunity in crisis. And human nature, as anybody knows who's in the midst of crisis, that when we're in crisis, we notice the crisis and the pain, the drama, the fear, the disaster that's happened.

The worst-case scenario.

Exactly. And the part, and what we want to do, and this, this is where intention comes into play. We want to train our brain to learn to notice the red car, okay, versus the car accident, if you will. Because one of the things Napoleon Hill noticed in his interview with hundreds of super accomplished people in the early part of the 20th century is like Henry Ford, Alexander Graham Bell, et cetera, it's one of the things that separated them from other people is they were, they recognized that their greatest opportunities in life came disguised in problems. And whereas most people notice the problem. So before I go on, Jim, I want to check, do we have to end exactly at the top of the hour?

Only because we have a dear friend who's starting a stream right now.

Oh, okay.

And, uh, we promise there were some people that got it. Well, let's, let's do this though. If, if you're going off to Tam Vayu stream, that's cool, go ahead. Hey, Tam, you're not gonna offend us at all, that's fine. And we'll hang on a couple more minutes. But believe me, if you, if you, if you're dedicated to go to Tam's stream, please do, and she's going to have some terrific stuff for you.

So absolutely good stuff. Energy Almanac, awesome, by the way. Yeah. Um, So, so that's great. It's like, well, how do you notice the, the, the red car? So here's the story. And I, I like framing it in the story because we remember stories. So here's what happened. I'm power walking down this country road, uh, Indian summer in September, years ago. And I'm power walking because I had a knee injury, couldn't run, but I wanted to get cardio. So I'm like going as fast as I can. But all of a sudden I noticed these little, uh, brown and black caterpillars on the road, the ones that we call woolly bears growing up. And they're all over the road enjoying the sun. And I didn't want them to get smushed, but I didn't want to like stop every 10 feet and like, here, little guy, and like push them off the road. So what I ended up doing, because I want to get the cardio, so I ended up taking off my t-shirt, my tank top, and I'm like, and I'm just like a big woolly bear windshields. Chill wiper walking down the road, whooshing them off the road. And it wasn't until years later it dawned on me, like, that must look really weird, like, to people driving, like, what's this guy doing? Didn't think of it at the time. But because I'm always thinking in terms of, like, teaching stories and analogies and metaphors, I'm thinking, this, what's this an analogy for, metaphor? I'm thinking, man, like, think about this. From the woolly bear's point of view, like they're just chilling out. Life is good. Next thing they know, they're getting flung into the bushes by this gigantic monster. Right, right. But from my, like, higher— put it in the mirror— my higher perspective, I mean the webcam, my higher perspective, I was doing them a favor. I was saving their lives. And I was thinking, isn't that like what it is in our human experience when life, like, punts us off into the bushes? With whatever's happening. We're feeling picked on. We're feeling devastated. Our world is rocked. What if we can, like, take that bigger perspective of the more like hero's journey or ask, what is the opportunity? What is the gift here that we typically, we only do that years later. But what if we remember that that opportunity is very often disguised in crisis and problem. So even if we are feeling like our world is rocked and we're feeling scared, we're like, yes, I'm scared. And I know that there's opportunity in every problem. And the only way, the only thing that keeps that from being a platitude like a little motivational platitude, is if you do your homework and think about times in your life that at the time they were devastating, but now when you look back, you see the gift, you see the opportunity. So you're like, yeah, I know from my own life that's true. Okay. Dial in my reticular activating system, that little radar in my brain that notices relevant info, the red car, and then I'll start to see those opportunities. Does that make sense?

Not only does it make sense, that's— I can't think of anything better to say. It's a beautiful way to wrap it up.

And thank you.

One of the things that you, you hit as you were talking, there's a very important semantic choice you made there. I'm scared and instead of I'm scared but, right? Yeah. And that's what opens us up to the, to the abundance, right? That's what opens us up to the option. Yeah. Oh no, that was beautiful. Let me, um, well, let me talk about this for a second. I want to brag about you for a second. Uh, Sensei Leader Movement, we need you. We absolutely need you. We need leaders like you. We need leaders who put people first, human-centric leaders, all levels. I don't care if you're just starting out, you're positioning yourself for your first leadership position, or you're a seasoned veteran. Uh, come and join the movement. Absolutely free to join, slmjoinfree.com. And right now, we've actually extended free membership to our Black Belt level. That's usually about $29 a month. The biggest— there's a lot of advantages there, a bunch of ebooks that you'll be able to download right away, online courses, but the nicest part about the Black Belt level is a monthly online call, and we've got one coming up on Monday. It's free. Yeah, Monday's the first, first Monday of the month, and that's a free-for-all. If you're listening while the coronavirus thing is still happening, or you listen to me before that, It's, uh, we're going to have a free-for-all, whatever you want to talk about, whatever you're dealing with, and we'll, we'll just help each other manage whatever problems we've got. If you want to get in touch with David Lee— human nature at work, right? Is there any other way you'd like people to get in touch?

Yeah, LinkedIn. Want to connect on LinkedIn for sure. There's, uh, there are a million David Lees. Um, there are a lot. Yeah, you could see the one that's connected with Jim Bouchard, or you you just do David Lee in Maine and you'll find me.

There you go. Hey, thanks so much for doing this with us today.

Oh, thank you, it was a blast.

You hang on just a second as we say goodbye. And then, hey everybody, thanks for tuning in. Always appreciate your support and your encouragement. Can't tell you how much we appreciate this, these live stream things. Uh, my friend Tam asked earlier, what have we learned through this coronavirus thing? And David will support this. I've never been an online guy. I like in, in the room, hugs and handshakes. And so this is a little bit of a transition, but I got to tell you, I really appreciate you guys embracing this live stream thing. We're going to keep them coming at you, and I'm, I'm really enjoying it. I'm enjoying sharing great people like David with you, so we'll keep them coming. Thank you very much. We'll talk soon.