Walking on the Glass Floor! Women leading us NOW with Judy Hoberman

Listen, I've got to thank everybody so much for supporting these live streams. We've just been having a blast. And, uh, we actually today, we welcome Judy Hoberman, who's a very dear friend, author of Walking on the Glass Floor, renowned speaker all over the world. And she's the one who's Extending our Power Woman theme, we had 3 great guests yesterday. Nana Wanjau from Kenya, we had Dr. Jackie Black, we had Ellen Voie from the Women in Trucking. And those replays are always available on SLM. Let me get that for you if I have it here. Oh, that's, uh, it's on something. I'll put the banner up later. But anyway, I don't want to waste any more time. I want to bring on, like I said, dear friend, wonderful person, Doc, uh, I'm doing so many of these. Judy Hoberman, and we're going to talk about— well, I don't know, what are we going to talk about, Judy? What do you want to talk about?

I don't know, anything about what everybody's talking about.

And as always, if you're watching the stream, make sure you're watching on the original stream, okay? So if you're watching on a shared stream, click on the original because that's going to get you over here so you can share comments. And please do share your comments, your ideas, uh, your questions, anything you'd like Let's talk about, it's interesting because I just told you I was talking on Walking the Walk with a friend of yours, Alexis Gladstone, and we were talking a little bit about the unique situations that are happening under, you know, under pressure, differences that there might be between men and women responding in leadership to, you know, to these different conditions.

Well, I think that, you know, in any condition, that men and women lead differently. I mean, That's the way it is. That's a real profound statement, but it is. Men and women are different in everything that we do. Today, in today's environment, again, people are stepping up differently. So, you know, the men are 1, 2, 3, they're getting up, they're getting on virtual platforms, they're doing things, and they're, you know, making sure you understand what they— what needs to be done and doing it. Women are not as quick to get on to the live virtual streams for many reasons. I mean, before they didn't do it either, but now they're starting to see that this is the change and more women are coming aboard. But it's still gonna be different. We talk about more about the relationships that you're building even virtually, because that's how you do business. And so again, it's just where we are.

I think that's great advice for everybody, right? Because one of the struggles that we've been hearing from so many leaders is, How do I stay in touch with my teams? How do I reach out? And I mean, you know, and I know you and I sing in harmony on this all the time anyway, but I've been telling people, just do the simple things. Just reach out, ask how people are doing. Make sure that you have, you know, a touchpoint. Not always, you know, are you getting this done? Are you getting that done? We're starting to settle into that, I think, a little bit more finally. But still, I think the initial reach out should just be, how are you doing? What can I do to help? No?

Absolutely. And, you know, it's interesting because I always say to people, have you made a phone call? Have you picked up the phone and say, how are you? What can I help you with? And some people are, you know, they say they're doing it day and night, you know, 24/7 because they have so many clients. And some people are a little bit leery about it. But honestly, you know, people are saying, how do I sell in this kind of environment? Unless you sold as, you know, the let's get it in, let's get in and get the check and get out. If you've done that before, you're always gonna do that. But most people are not doing that and they've never done it. You start a conversation with, How are you? What are you doing? Do you need anything from me? What can I help you with? How do I support you? It's the same as it's always been, but now you just have to be a little bit more patient when they're telling you what they're afraid of or they're telling you what they're concerned about. And if, you know, I go back to financial all the time because that's my background. People want to be reassured that what you've done with them before still holds true. So, you know, you know how people say, and we've talked about this before, like the stock market, oh my God, it's crashed. I'm losing all my money. You're not losing it unless you're selling today. And it's the same thing when you have any kind of financial commitments to anybody. Unless you have to sell today, it hasn't changed. On the paper, it looks different. So, again, reassure your clients that what we've done together still stands.

Right. No, and this is— and I hope you don't mind me putting this website up— walkingontheglassfloor.com. That's one of Judy's terrific books. And her other one is Selling in a Skirt. Which, you know, it sounds like it's just for women, but it's a terrific book and everybody can apply those principles. So I'm glad you went that way because you know what? We haven't had a guest on to really address the sales part of it. And, you know, spirit of full disclosure, I've been feeling that pinch myself, you know. Resources are finite and a lot of people are feeling that. And we're wondering, especially those who are totally committed in the speaking side, we've been talking with a lot of friends about that, right? For speakers, trainers, corporate trainers, folks in that world, business has ended. Now, hopefully it's going to come back, right, and people are shifting to online, and that's all good, but as that shift to online comes, people are starting to feel the pressure now, and of course, you just talked about certainty. The uncertainty with the government programs right now is amazing, right? We don't know, and they've changed so much in the last few days. We don't know how much money is coming. We don't know where it's coming from. We don't know, micro-businesses, if they're going to get much of anything at this point. So, you know, all those things are factors. So how can people actually sell? And I know I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit, not just stay in touch because we all been doing that, giving, but you know, how can we actually turn it into transactions as we start to dig in here for the long haul?

Well, let's go back to what you said about speakers. Now, obviously I'm a speaker, and when my first speaking gig got canceled, I thought, ooh, that pinches, you know, that hurts a little But when everything got canceled, you look at your calendar, it's like, okay, what do I do now? And in full transparency, I had my own little pity party. I did. It was short because I knew, okay, so if I just sit here and wallow in it and wait till this is over, whenever that's going to be, it won't happen. So again, I start out, I always start out with how do I support someone else? So how do I How do I support the meeting planners? How do I support my colleagues? How do you do that? But you do have to remember that a lot of things that you're doing do require people to buy from you. And so one of the things that I did was I went back to some of my clients and I said, why don't we do a webinar? Okay, it may not be a keynote speech, but I'm going to do a webinar. I'm still going to teach your people this, or I'm still going to share this. So I've started going more on the virtual route and it takes time. It's not something that's easy. You know, anybody that's selling a product or a service, you have to also, again, as you're talking to somebody, you ask what's different. You know, again, let me go back to financial for a minute. Like for me, I always did policy reviews. So at the end of the year you'd say, so what's changed? Well, why can't you do that now? Look how much has changed in the last 4 to 6 weeks. The whole world changed.

Last 4 to 6 hours.

Right, I mean, you went to sleep one night, and you wake up in the morning, you're like, okay, what's different? So a lot of the people that are talking about, that do any kind of insurance, whether it's home or auto or personal or business or whatever, so what's changed in the last few weeks for you? Has anything changed? Think about, there's still babies being born, there's still people getting married, there's still people getting divorced, there's still people that are no longer in your circle, whatever that is. Things have changed. So sometimes people just need to have somebody to talk to and say, you know, I didn't even think about that. It's as simple as that. It's a conversation. If you start to jam things down people's throat, that's what they'll remember when this is over. If you start, you know, if you start in the serving and the supporting role, that's how you do it. There was a really cool video from Entrepreneur and they were talking to a couple And they have thousands of employees all over the world. And so they were saying like, how do you keep in touch with your people? And what do you say? And one of the questions they asked, which I loved, you know, they do say, you know, how are you? And how do I support you? They did say, what are some of the obstacles in your way that we can help you with?

Yeah.

Okay, it could be as simple as I don't know how to use Zoom. Or I don't know how to, you know, I don't know how to talk to people, you know, over a teleplatform. I don't know what to say. I don't know how to do fact-finding. I don't know how to do— there's something there that you just support and it'll change.

Yeah, not only, you know, those platforms, it's interesting too because one of the things that we've been hearing is, I don't know how to talk to people when they're freaking out. You know what I mean? And that's something that a lot of leaders have to contend with right now. And if it's, if it is your first time, and here's something too, I mean, Some of the younger leaders have been saying, "I've never been through this before." And all I can say about that is, well, even if you're young, even if this is your first big crisis, you have something in your life that's similar. You've faced fears, you've faced worries before, you've faced, you know, some sort of anxiety before, and you got to access that, right? And you got to say, "What did I do then? What did I do right? What did I do wrong?" You know, you've got those lessons, or you turn to your mentors and/or find a mentor. People that have been through it. I mean, you know, Judy and I, we've been through, well, probably in our lifetimes at least 3, if not 4, of these kind of major disasters. It wasn't exactly— they're all a little bit different.

They're all different. We've never been through this, right?

But similar situations, right, where we were, we were afraid, we were worried what was going to happen economically, we were worried if we're going to get business ramped up again. And, and I, I agree with you, I've had my freak-out moments too. I just, I go behind the curtain over here.

But you know what? You have to give yourself permission to actually feel what's going on. You know, you're not, you're not a slab of stone. So you give yourself permission and then you say, okay, so what could I do? What could I do better? What could I do differently? You know, and I was saying before that my word for 2020 was shifting. Who knew how relevant that was going to be?

Well, you apparently did.

No, I just, I thought I was going to shift some things that I was going to do things a little bit differently. But you know, like now you're shifting everything. So you have to be able to get in there and say, okay, who can, who can I turn to if I need something? I don't know how to do X. Like for me, technology is my greatest, you know, it's my, I just, it's not my friend. And so if I have to do something that's, you know, that has to do with technology, I have to reach out. I cannot do it myself. So you have to stop being afraid of asking. You just have to do it.

Well, that's why, and I'm going to put in a pitch for you here because there's no better time to train than in the middle of something like this. And if you are struggling, reach out, reach out to somebody like Judy, reach out to our services, you know, find people who have been through it and can help you and coach you through this, you know what I mean? And I'm going to say, especially if you're still working, because that's the other thing too. There are, there are a lot of people that are still working and still, you know, getting revenue in, right? And my heart goes out to the people that aren't, but There are a lot of people that are doing that. And they're finding extra time. That's another point, right? I've talked to a couple people, all of a sudden, I think for a week or two, it was freak out. I'm going 90 miles an hour. And then all of a sudden, foom, decompression, and they settle into the routine of working at home. And even just the drive time, that, right, the time used to be taken up back, well, that's great time to transform into, into training time.

And, you know, it's interesting that you say that because think about the, even if you found 5 extra hours a week because of your commute, 5 extra hours, you can do a lot of things in 5 hours. Now we also have to think about people that they went to work on Friday, they were told go home and we're not sure when you're coming back. But when they got home, their kids were there too because now their kids were told. And then their spouse or their partner were there because they had the same conversation. So now all of a sudden your nice quiet room that you could be working in is no longer. And so one of the things you have to also understand is that your kids and your partner or your spouse, they're also freaking out. Because they don't know what to do. So you have to sit yourself down and have a conversation. Okay, so here's what's happening. We all have to survive under this one roof and we have to figure out what works best. Now, you know, your kids are never, ever, ever going to do exactly what you tell them. They're just not going to. So, but if you know you have to homeschool your kids and that they're the, the best time for them is between 10 and 2, then maybe it's not the time for you to have all your conference calls between 10 and 2.

Thank you.

Right? So you have to be able to try to figure out like, how do I create some kind of harmony at home? Because it's very different. You know, it is, it's very different. But I will tell you one unexpected advantage to all of this is that everybody's home having dinner together. You're sitting around having a conversation like it used to be. And there are no sports and there's no activities that you have to run to and, you know, throw them a fast food, whatever. It's, you know, so I think that is one of the, the beautiful things that are happening out of this is that the family is becoming a unit again.

No, it is. I'm so glad you mentioned that too about the scheduling because, you know, we— there's been a lot of talk about people being accommodating to people who have children and the runner, and, and, you know, to a degree I agree with that, but I'd rather if you're, you know, business is business and I'm Right, I'm focusing my time on you. I expect you to focus your time on me. Now, I understand you've got kids at home and all that stuff. I'd rather you said, Jim, I can't do the meeting at 8 o'clock in the morning when the kids are up, you know, and running around. Let's do it at 7 o'clock in the evening after you wear them out and put them to bed. That's right, that's fine. And actually, I put my uniform, my gi on the other day and did, uh, some tips for, you know, how to get the kids to— Sensei's tips for how to get the kids to be a little more compliant, right? And that's, that's one of them, you know, run them around, exercise them, get them tired. Don't You know, don't schedule your business meeting, your business Zoom, when the kids wake up and they just had their Froot Loops, you know?

Right, but you have to be aware of that. And I think that some people aren't aware of that. They just think that it'll happen. And some people, you know, when you get on one of these big calls, they'll say, okay, I just wanna tell you upfront that you might see my kids walking by or the cat walking across the computer or whatever. You have to also understand this is the real world right now. So you have to give them slack, but you also have to give yourself slack. You're doing the best you can. And so instead of everything being 100% perfect, there— it's not going to be. It's just not. And so we have to be able to deal with that.

And just for the record, the fastest way to get kids to make noise is to tell them to be quiet.

Absolutely, without question. Absolutely.

Don't tell them to be quiet. Make sure you've got— you've got— you strategically place them so that, you know, you're going to be in a quiet space. I think that's much more manageable. Yeah. What are the— what are some of the challenges you're hearing from your clients right now? What are some of the big ones?

Well, most of them are saying that. Yeah, that's one of them. But also they're saying that they don't know how to do business. They don't know what the right way is to do business because they feel slimy if they're doing business or they're feeling like they're doing nothing and they're not doing any business. So it's that. It's financially, what do they do next? Again, it's all about Looking at the opportunities. OK, so people need to still learn. They still need to grow. They still need to lead. They still need to sell. They still need all these things. So how do you put together a plan for them?

Still need to keep our teams engaged and productive. And listen, if you're, if you're watching on the live stream, if you're not on the replay, you're watching us live, make sure you come in and put your comments and your questions in there, and we'll feature some of those, put them up on the screen, and we'll make sure we get to them and address them. Where were we going with that? Yeah, the challenges. So we've got the kids, we've got the all of a sudden thrust into working from home. And I know we, we talked about the last time we spoke, you and I have been doing this for a long time, you know, with this new form of remote work. But it is different. The technology is different, I acknowledge that. But there's also a different demand on your time, you know what I mean? People, I, I've been telling people, if they don't think they're going to be doing this permanently, stick to as close to the regular schedule as you've been doing, right? I'm real flexible in my time, I admit it. I mean, there's times when I work out every day, but it could be 8 o'clock in the morning, it could be noon some days, it could be afternoon, right? I shift things around. I don't think that's the best way for most people to work.

Well, you know, again, if you're by yourself, you could do whatever you need to do. You could work 24/7, you could do however. When there's others involved, now you have to be able to accommodate Everybody, they do.

That was one of the big ones people have been saying. They found that because there's no clock, so to speak, right? They're in at 8, they're out at 5, whatever the case may be, that they've been working 15, 16 hours. I mean, you and I do that all the time anyway, but right, all of a sudden they ramped it up and they didn't realize they were working that much.

Yeah, and, but that happens because you can, because now you, you know, it's not like you have to drive somewhere and then drive home, or the office is going to shut down, or whatever. You're home, so you could do whatever you need to do. But I will tell you that a lot of people are not working 9 to 5 or 8 to 5 or anything like that. They're working, you know, 4 hours here, they're working 2 hours here, they're working 6, whatever, because they can also do that. I have a client who, she said at 12 o'clock, where she would have ordinarily taken a lunch break, she's doing yoga. She's taking a yoga class virtually. You know, because you can. That's the difference, you can do this. And the other thing is that just because you, you work from 9 to 5, it doesn't mean it has to be 9 to 5. It could be that many hours. I talk about, why don't you focus on the what, what you're going to do instead of focusing on when you're going to do it. If you have a project that you have to get done, who cares if you do it in the middle of the night? If that's your best time, it doesn't matter because you're getting it done. And I think as a leader, you also have to be a little bit more flexible with the rules. Yes, this needs to get done. Yes, it needs to be done by Wednesday. And yes, blah, blah, blah. OK, it's done by Wednesday. It didn't matter if it was done Wednesday. You know, I did it Tuesday night or Wednesday morning. It's done. And so I think that we have to also be a little bit more flexible in the hours that we're looking at.

Yeah, I agree with you. And I like that. I like your focus on the task-oriented scheduling, you know what I mean? Because that's, that tends to be more how I do it. I need to put things on the calendar, but I don't necessarily put the slot them into you know, particular times. And so that helps me a lot. And it feels good if I get through a chunk, you know, that I'm working on. I say, okay, now I can put that aside. I can go work out. I can play guitar. I can relax for a while. And I'll come back and take the next chunk, you know.

Right. You focus on the results rather than the, you know, the hour that it's done.

Yeah, yeah. Or go play— well, can't play golf now, but some people are playing golf. They shut us down here.

Well, they shut us down in a lot of places, but I know in the warmer places.

Yeah.

And golf.

Yeah. And again, if you're watching on the replay, you might not know what we're talking about because we're visiting with Judy right now in the middle of the coronavirus adventures. But there it is. Yeah, no, they shut our golf— finally shut our— there's a petition. We've got a petition going around, open the golf courses. We thought it was a good way to have some social interaction at a distance, right? Nobody has to touch each other. Nobody has to be anywhere near each other.

Well, they will— the golf courses that are open, the— Driving ranges are not, right?

Right. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense.

It's all being flexible.

I was going to say something a little off-color, but I won't. I'll share with you afterwards. A little joke. Okay. You never know who's watching.

I don't want to—

absolutely anybody— the— well, it wouldn't be the wrong impression, but I don't want to give everybody an improper impression. So there you go. The other thing is, um, that I was interested in hearing from you too, you know, like Alex and I You know, you and Don, and Don Taylor, fantastic speaker, fantastic administrator in the healthcare field. And he's doing some coaching and consulting as well. And he's a great resource. I hope we have him on one of these pretty soon. You guys are now living together and working together. Right? You're in this— OK, take it from there. That was— Can he hear us right now?

He can't hear us right now, but I'm sure he'll watch the replay unless he's listening in. I'm not really sure. But, you know, again, it's hard. Because we work totally differently. I'm very focused and I am not the whiteboard kind of person. I'm an implementer.

Yeah, the whiteboard.

And he's the whiteboard person. So if I say, okay, I'm going to talk to Jim Bouchard today, he's going to say, okay, well, let's see what that's going to look like. And I have to reel it in and say, let's put the whiteboard away.

Yeah.

Because that's not— I don't deal like— I can't do that. He also— he can He can be working on a project, watching the news, listening to the radio, and reading a book at the same time. I am one. I have to do one thing. So a lot of— and this is what we— in the morning, I mean, you know, I always post early in the morning. So I'm up early and I'm on my computer doing my thing. And then he'll come into my office and he'll sit and chat with me. But I know when I'm like really heavy into writing, if he's talking to me, I end up typing what he's saying as opposed to— And so, you know, it's like that. Plus I also have French doors and they have glass in it, and so sometimes I'll look up and he's like looking through at the glass at me like—

I've been doing that to Alex. I've been knocking on her door when she closes the door. We have to, we have to establish— but we've, you know, we've been in the same space working for quite a while, so it wasn't really much of, you know, a switch for us. But because, like you said earlier, because of the mandated restrictions that Neither one of us really can, right? Especially the last few days when, you know, we're trying very hard to, to comply with, you know, things. We, we do go out because we have some open space, so we're able to go for a drive. Well, not today because it's snowing, but out for— oh, the sun just came out! We go to the shore, we have some fresh air time, you know what I mean?

Well, we'll go for a walk and do that because we could do that.

Yeah, but otherwise we're, we're still pretty contained. And I think one of the things too that we, we've realized, um, you have to watch how you're talking to each other, right? And I'm, and I'm guilty of it. I've been amped up a little bit at times and been short, and it's easy to get snippy back and forth.

Well, because it's a different situation and you're all— everybody's trying to learn from it. You know, one of the things that I found for me is that I have lost my boundaries. When I first— when we first got together, um, I made sure that at a certain time when we first got married, a certain time I'd be done working and that would be that. And I'm pretty good at it. I really am. But all of a sudden, because you're on Zoom from 7 o'clock in the morning till 8 o'clock at night, you have no boundaries. And I did a video last week and I said, look, you know, I am calling myself out because I have no boundaries and I need, I need all of you to be my accountability partners because I need for you to say to me, get back to your boundaries. Because that's the other thing that happens when you are working from home. You have no boundaries, and you have to set them up not only for everybody else in your home, but for yourself.

Yeah.

And so I like to be done, and, you know, so we can have the evening together. But, you know, he's on calls, I'm on calls, and that's craziness. So we have to get back to where we were. And I think it's going to take a couple of weeks to just get back into the rhythm that you really need to be in.

Yeah, no, I'm glad. That's really good advice. I think also too, it's funny, I, I was kind of pooh-poohing this at first, but a friend of ours set up— we should do one of these, uh, the virtual cocktail hour, you know, a virtual dinner. We did a virtual dinner the other day, and that was a lot of fun, you know, a couple people that came in. And, and, you know, I, I'm the first one to say, no, it's not the same. I'm a hugs and handshakes guy. But, uh, but it helped. It really did help. And it was— we were able to talk, you know, socially with people other than just the two of us.

Right. Do you think that even going forward, like, there— that we're all going to be a huggy kissy nation again? You know, when does that happen? Because I think people are a little, you know, who knows? There's a lot of cultures that don't do that, you know?

Right, right.

So yeah, things are going to be different. You just have to decide how different, and is different better, or different just different?

Maybe we'll be bowing like in the dojo.

A lot of people do.

Yeah, well, there was an interesting argument going on about that because, uh, some— I posted something Dr. Fauci had said maybe we're not going to do handshakes afterwards. I said, oh no, no, no, no, we can't even be thinking about that. And people started saying, wait, you know what the handshake meant originally about the showing empty hands, no weapons at all? I said, well, that's, that's beside the point. What it's come to, to be in our culture, and certainly when I extend a handshake, it's a sign of respect and it's a sign of welcoming, you know what I mean? And yeah, if we have to adjust, but yeah, make sure, um We'll be with Judy for a few more minutes, but if you've got comments and questions, ideas, post your ideas because, you know, this doesn't have to be a lecture. I don't like lectures, Judy doesn't like lectures. We've never gotten paid extra to get through a slide deck, right?

I'll tell you something funny when, you know, you talk about culture and everything. When I was in my corporate position, we had changed everybody's titles and they went from being a 1099 independent contractor to employees. And there's a big difference. You know, there's a big difference there because otherwise you're like traveling on that gray area a lot. Anyway, so we had an HR person come in and she did 3 hours of talking about the differences and blah, blah, blah. And, you know, and saying what you can't do, what you can do. 3 hours of this. So at the end, she said, anybody have any questions? And one of the managers, you know, he said, I have a big question. We are a very huggy group. And she said, you can't hug. No more hugging. Your employees can't hug. And he said, no, no, you don't understand. We all hug. And she said, okay, if you have to hug, then you hug for 3 seconds and just release because it's against all HR issues.

Yeah.

Okay. So at the end of all of this, one question after another was, well, can we hug? Can we hug? She said, after 3 hours, all you hear about is hugging. So it's 3 seconds. So now what everybody did was they would hug you and they'd go, One Mississippi, two Mississippi. So maybe we're gonna have to have some kind of, you know, ruling. You're gonna hug somebody, you know, set an alarm on your Apple Watch.

Actually, you know, you know what, somebody will come up with an app that'll detect when you're hugging.

Yeah.

And give you an alarm when you have to release, right? Yeah.

Oh my God, it's too funny. But you know, but business is different. But I think it's going to be— I think that it's going to change, but I think it's going to be fun for a lot of in a lot of ways because you're going to be able to, you know, be in front of more people.

You know, one of the things, you know, is before we wrap up here, one of the things I admire about you so much is your resilience. You know, you've shared your challenges with me and you've, you've always come— you've lived the martial arts ideal that we talk about, knock down 7 times, get up 8, right? And that's something that people are going to face. I think a lot of people, a lot of entrepreneurs, especially if they just got into business when this thing hit, are going to realize, well, maybe it's too tough and they're going to go back to employment, which is fine. I mean, whatever you decide to do is cool. Um, I know in the speaking business we're already hearing that people are saying, I'm not going to wait around for the conferences to come back, this is it, I'm going to go somewhere else. But a lot of people are going to, you know, tighten that belt and move forward, right? What are the, what are the main— how did you get through some of these tough times? What are, what are the things that you leaned on? What are some of the techniques you use to really bounce back from a big setback?

So one of the things that I have always done is I always give myself permission to feel. And so I always give myself permission to wallow in my own nonsense. And I do it, but I give myself a time limit. Okay, so I don't say I'm going to go into my blankies or I'm going to watch Netflix for 17 hours straight or anything like that. I just, I do it. I feel it. I cry. Do I? A lot of, I cry. And then I get up and say, okay, so what changed? What could I have done differently? What did I learn from this? And that was really the only way that I could go forward. I had a really bad experience in my company where somebody basically stole lots of money from me. And it was when the Colonel and I were trying to get married. And so at one time he put his foot down and he said, you can't do this. He said, you're destroying your whole being because I would cry all the time. And he said, so he said, abort the mission, which I had no idea what that meant. Just, you know, whatever.

Well, the Colonel explained it, right? Yeah, he did.

So, but what I did was I parked it. I parked it. And then, you know, we got married and everything else. And then I took everything from that incident and I donated it and gave it to a women's organization. I got rid of all of it because I couldn't, every time I'd look at it, I'd start to sweat. So I sometimes just have to move myself out of a situation and then learn from it.

Yeah. No, that's perfect. That's perfect. I wish I had learned that one earlier, you know what I mean? Not, not to let it go on too long, but I agree with you. I think that's a great one. And the other thing that I would say is substitute, right? Find something. If you, if you've, if you're in a state where you find yourself turning inward, right, and you catch yourself there a little bit too long, you got to find something, right? Something that takes you outside your head again. And, you know, Who knows what that might be at this time? The blessing of having the technology, right? We've been— I, and I, and I mean this sincerely. People think I've been saying this as kind of an aside or as a joke. I'm not. You always learned how— wanted to learn how to play piano? What a perfect time. Absolutely. You want to learn how to do a language, right?

I was going to say language. Yep, absolutely, absolutely.

Something to take you— something to knock you in the head a little bit and take you right out of that, out of that point of misery. There's nothing wrong with music. It's healing, right?

Yeah, sometimes really good, hot, you know, music and you dance around, that totally.

Exactly. We're gonna be with Judy for just a couple more minutes. So if you're on, you wanna make a comment or share an idea or ask Judy a question, please just pop in the comment thread. We'll watch for that for a couple more minutes. And I also want, I keep forgetting to say this too, I've gotta train myself to do this more. If you're watching on the replay, make sure you share the comments, okay? And we'll make sure they get to the appropriate place 'cause these things are evergreen. They'll be going on for a while. If you'd like to private message us, You can always send an email to me, jim@senseileader.com. Judy, how would you like people to reach out to you?

Judy@sellinginaskirt.com.

Sellinginaskirt.com. Okay, cool. So there you go. Anything you'd like to add, Judy, before we say goodbye for today? And you hang with me for a minute because I want to talk afterwards.

Oh, I think that everybody just has to, you know, get into their own rhythm again and just focus on what's really important and love your family. Because that's— you're starting to communicate again. So don't blow that because it took an act of whatever to bring family back together. And I really do think that we've missed that for a long, long time. So I think that you should focus, create some harmony. And harmony just means be present where you are.

I wish I could remember the saying. It was something like, crisis has a cause, right? But only if we make it so.

Yeah, absolutely.

Judy, thank you. Always so cool to talk to, and you brighten my day.

Thank you, same to you. I miss seeing you.

Well, here we are. We'll do more of these. Sound good?

Sounds good.

All right, thanks so much for being with us today.