A 20 minute clip from my podcast with Josh Elledge

With us right now, it's Jim Carlough. Jim, you're an award-winning Chief Sales Officer. You're a bestselling leadership author, keynote speaker. You are the Chief Sales Officer with MPulse, and your website is jimcarloug.com. We have the spelling of that in the show notes. You can see that. Uh, but Jim, it's great to have you.

I'm glad to be here. I'm really excited, Josh, for this conversation. I love your motivation, and I, I think We're both like hyped up enough.

Yeah. Okay. All right. So we got, we got Jim and Josh bringing the energy. All right. To our listener, be prepared because we're gonna have some fun. Jim, before we get going, uh, talking about your superpowers, your work, what you do professionally, always love just hearing what high-level leaders do for fun outside of, of work. Uh, what have you been into lately?

So my wife and I are empty nesters. The kids are all off the payroll. They're all off the insurance plan and they are all off the cell phone bill.

Congratulations. You have graduated, my friend.

We have graduated. We are ahead of most empty nesters who still can't shake the cell phone bill. However, for fun, in the area that we live in, we are spoiled with a lot of great local musical talent. And so my wife and I are almost groupies of a couple of local bands. In fact, we have the band, um, well, the people who run the band live in our subdivision.

Yeah.

And we actually have a lot of fun with them when they play. They just played at a venue that we missed last week. Over 150 people came. And typically what happens, there's one part in the, in, in their routine or whatever where the wife gets us, does a saxophone solo. but comes out into the audience. And one day she did that when it was just her and her husband playing at a little burger joint.

Yeah.

So I looked at her husband and I go, and I go like this, and he was like, ah, come on up. So I walked up and got behind the microphone. Now I have no musical talent whatsoever, so I air played the, um, the keyboard and faked like I was lip syncing. It was a hoot. Now they ask me to do it every time they play.

You're a professional, uh, not air guitarist, but air keyboardist.

Air keyboardist.

And air saxophonist. That's exciting. You know, so it sounds like you and I have some things in common. Uh, my wife and I love local live music. What can you share with me, um, why? Like, what do you get out of that experience? And it's particularly, you know, emotionally, what do you get when you're amongst that sort of like environment or that community there of all those people?

You know, it's interesting because the different people that we like, we get different things from. Like the band I was just talking about plays a lot of '80s music. There's another band that we like that plays a lot of, um, covers from, uh, country music. And then there's another band where, um, the gentleman has written all his own music, and his name is John Christopher Davis, and he ironically used to write for Tom Petty.

Oh gosh, one of the greatest songwriters of all time.

Correct. Now, he and Stan Lynch, who was Tom Petty's drummer, just started a new band called The Speaker Wars, and they have started touring. And a couple weeks ago, they were playing locally, and, and we were walking into the restaurant, and the drummer was trying to get their drums in the elevator. And as he got up to the elevator and get out of the elevator, I'm, I'm helping him carry the drum set. And John Christopher Davis is standing there and he says, Jim, what are you doing? I said, well, I think I'm a groupie now. He said, Jim, you've always been a groupie. So I took that as a compliment.

Oh man, I love it, I love it, I love it. Yeah, this past weekend my wife and I saw a, uh, a, a look— a band called La Vola. They played a Radiohead tribute, uh, set, about 18 songs from Radiohead, and it was just an incredible night. I posted some videos. He actually did some crowd surfing as well for the crowd. You know, it's amazing, Jim. I don't know if you've seen this. Um, uh, so if we saw Nine Inch Nails recently, but it is amazing how many young kids come out to see these. Uh, you know, either we see a lot of tribute bands, like we saw, um, New Order, uh, and The Smiths, uh, tribute artist on Friday. And it was, it was about at least a third Gen Z. And they're like, this is the greatest music ever. And I'm like, well, I'm a Gen Xer, I'm biased, I would agree with you. So yeah, well, for— from one groupie to another groupie, Jim, thank you so much for bringing that. I absolutely love the vibe of getting together and just like, you know, everyone coming together. Music brings us together. Jim, we got to get in talking about your superpowers professionally. Talk about, uh, the work that you do, uh, both as a keynote speaker, and we'll certainly talk about your book as well.

So I started speaking a couple years ago about leadership, and it really started as I reflected back on my career and the number of people I mentored. I found that they lacked some critical skills that I felt were effective in my leadership that I learned along my journey. And then a year ago, a little over a year ago, I started writing and putting it all together and trying to consolidate those characteristics small enough into a book that could be implementable. And, and I know people try hard, but the thing about leadership that I think people struggle with, or, or what happens most around the world— this is not US-specific— is we as leaders see somebody who's a great individual contributor. And we say, you know what, we're going to make Bill a manager. And then we go over and we talk to Bill, and Bill gets excited, gets a new title, goes home, tells the wife they're getting a promotion, they're getting more money. But nobody teaches and gives Bill a roadmap of the things he's now going to have to consider as he manages people he used to be peers with and share lunch with. And so that's what I focus on in my keynote speaking and also in the book and my workshops, is those skills around there that really make a difference between a manager And a true leader and a leader that people want to follow.

Well, let's go through some of the attributes that our fictional manager here might want to adapt or evolve into if they want to be an effective leader.

So the first one is, to me, non-negotiable. And we have gotten away from it in corporate America and in politics and worldwide. And that's integrity. And integrity to me is non-negotiable. We have got to get back to where people are truthful, people are direct, and people are not trying to— it's not that sugarcoating it, but I think we've really lost the integrity thing. And the thing about integrity is if your team doesn't believe in you and if you're not presenting from an integrity perspective or leading with integrity, you will never build trust. You'll never build loyalty. You'll have— people will constantly be disillusioned with your vision and everything falls apart. And when that happens, this is where you see the companies that have 12%, 15%, 20% year-over-year turnover. My annual attrition rate is low single digits and always has been. And it's because I lead with integrity and I learned this pillar, the year I graduated college, and I'm going to date myself now, 1983. I graduated in 1983 from college. In that same year, I ran for local political office. And I won. I became a city councilman in the town I grew up in. And the few days after the election, the city administrator called me and he asked me to come spend a few minutes with him. And I did. And he said, hey, I just really want you to do me a favor. Now, I wasn't even sworn in yet, so I couldn't do any favors. And favors really scared me from a political perspective because I didn't want to end up in jail. But he had nothing of the sort. What he said to me was, and this changed my life, he said, Jim, I want you to ask yourself one question every day when you lay down in bed at night and put your head on the pillow, but before you close your eyes. He said, I want you to ask yourself, did I do anything today for my own personal self-benefit that was at the expense of another individual, group of individuals, or organization? He said, if you say yes to that question, before you go to sleep, you have to figure out, A, how to unwind it, and B, how to never do it again. I have asked myself that question every night since November of 1983. And I have never answered that with a yes.

Well, what a great— what does— when living at that, I mean, obviously, let me ask. I was thinking about this, right? Is— I wonder if some people believe, based upon maybe some unfortunate role modeling that might, you know, exist elsewhere, that they can get away with it. Well, no one will know, right? I could paper over this, or I can kind of explain everything away, or I'm just the boss and it really doesn't matter. Can you put maybe some data behind this? Or some maybe evidence or an anecdote that shows, no, you, you really cannot get away with this in the long term?

You can't. And because here's what happens. The leader that does try to get away with it is the leader that changes the chairs that report directly underneath them every 2 to 3 years. And what I call that is changing the chairs of— on the Titanic. The Titanic is still going to sink. It's just going to take some time to sink. And in every case where I've seen a leader who hasn't led with integrity, that is exactly what has happened.

I love it. Jim, share a bit about your work. How are you— so obviously you're speaking and we're going to get— I promise we're going to get to the book next, but I'm curious what you do professionally.

So professionally, I'm a chief sales officer for an organization. And it's a healthcare technology organization. I've been in healthcare my entire life. The first 20-some years I worked specifically in the insurance carrier space in the healthcare space. And then in about 1997, I got onto the technology side of healthcare and had the great privilege of working with Ross Perot for almost 10 years.

Wow.

And talk about an amazing man. I could talk for 3 hours and I know we don't have time for that, but There was no greater leader that I've ever met than Ross Perot.

So, your book, and I know we're going to share how folks can get a copy of this a little bit in just a bit, but your book is The 6 Pillars of Effective Leadership: A Roadmap to Success. Who should be reading this book and why?

So, I originally thought that this book was going to be focused specifically for young leaders who wanted to be able to grow effectively into, into management, for those people who got tapped on the shoulder but weren't given a roadmap. And I was so wrong. I have been on podcasts and interviews and other things with a broader range of audience that very surprised me. Number one, school teachers. Very surprising. I thought it was just a business book. Nope, school teachers need to understand empathy and compassion with students. I was on a podcast for stay-at-home moms, and they specifically have issues with integrity, compassion, empathy with their children and trying to manage the household. The one that surprised me even more was executive chefs. I would have thought executive chefs, because they wield a knife, had complete control in the kitchen. But they struggle. And in the kitchen, there's a lot of work to get done in the kitchen. And there's a lot of noise and things and a lot of organizational stuff that has to get on. So I was really surprised at the reach the audience has, the reach the book has had with the various audiences. Although my focus has always been, this is really for those up-and-coming leaders, or even people who have been in leadership for some time, but struggle because they don't ever get that loyalty with the team and they can't figure out why. Most people call it the imposter syndrome. And really, I think I can cure the imposter syndrome with the 6 pillars and giving a leader the framework to work within.

Yeah. And I think all of us probably have a, you know, somewhere between a, a healthy dose of imposter syndrome, and, and that really probably just looks and sounds like humility, uh, appropriate humility, uh, all the way up to people are like, man, I can't believe they haven't caught on to me yet. I feel like a kid here. And listen, we've all felt like that, I think, right? To some degree.

Correct.

And, and the people who never feel like this, I don't know, I, I would probably say that's probably a little psychotic in some degree, or, or at least narcissistic in some way. Um, would you say that that's a fair assessment?

I would agree with you 100%. I mean, in fact, I once was asked the question, the way you lead today and the way you talk about leadership, have you always done that? Was that the way you led your first team? And it made me think about the first team I managed. And I had to say no. And then I said, you know, I probably owe them all an apology. I had no idea what I was doing.

Yeah.

I had a degree from college, but I really had no idea. I didn't know what compassion was. I didn't know what empathy was. And you really can't pick up a book to learn empathy or compassion. You really have to experience it. And it's through those experiences that you develop the ways to manage that and, and how deal— you deal with that. Because how you, Josh, would deal with it may be a little bit different than what the way I would deal with it, although both are right. I mean, there's no, there's no rules of this is what empathy has to be or this is what compassion has to be.

Yeah. Uh, Jim, let's share, uh, for a friend that's been listening, uh, how they engage with you, uh, and certainly let's, let's talk about how they can get a copy of the book.

A couple of things. Number one, obviously, you mentioned my website, which is down in the show notes. You can connect with me on social media. I am on Facebook, I am on LinkedIn, I am on Instagram. I do post frequently on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram on leadership, mostly Monday to Friday. So you can connect with me that way, or via my website, you can log an email to me. I return everybody's phone call. I am highly successful at doing that. And I also am about to launch some coaching programs via the website. that should be out within the next 2 weeks that people might find very, very interesting. But those are the best ways. The book is also available on Amazon. It's in hardcover, paperback, and audio for those that like audio.

Nice.

The book's concise enough. One of the things that people have said about the book is it's concise and it's not full with a lot of blah, blah, blah theory. It's filled with practical, a practical approach and ways to implement. And I also, in every chapter, cite business leaders that they will know in the real world who use that particular pillar in their management style.

Excellent. Well, Jim Carlough, again, you're a, uh, a keynote speaker, award-winning chief sales officer, uh, and bestselling leadership author. The book is The 6 Pillars, uh, of Effective Leadership: A Roadmap to Success. Your website, jimcarloug.com. Jim, it's been a great conversation. Thank you for joining us.

I'm glad to be— I'm thankful to be here. But Josh, one more thing.

Yeah.

I love to get feedback. And so any— for the first 3 people who post a comment to your social media, let's say your LinkedIn, after this episode comes out, what you took from the episode, what you took positive or negative, the first 3 people, don't put your address in there. Just put your, your name in the what you got out of it, and one of us will contact you and I will send you a free copy of the book, The 6 Pillars of Effective Leadership. So first 3 people get a free copy of the book and just for giving us feedback.

Jim Carlough, thank you so much for that. Thank you for the free gift as well. Jim, thank you for joining us.

Have a great day, sir.