Four Pillars of Stress Management with Dr. David Rabin & Jim Kwik

Welcome back, Kwik Brain. And I'm excited about today's episode with you. It's a question we get a lot, and it has to do with reducing the stress and anxiety of our current environment, specifically 4 different pillars to be able to mitigate and reduce and be able to face these challenging turbulent times, to come out of it with greater peace of mind, greater productivity, greater positivity, and greater performance. And to have this conversation with us, we have a very special guest. It is Dr. David Rabin. He's an MD, PhD. He's a neuroscientist, board-certified psychiatrist. And he's been studying the impact of chronic stress in humans for over a decade. And he's also the Chief Innovation Officer at Apollo Neuroscience, which has developed a scientifically validated wearable technology that actively improves energy. Who doesn't want that? Improves focus, improves relaxation, and using a very novel touch therapy that signals safety to the brain. And that's actually how we met. Many of you who read Limitless know that I suffer from and struggle with sleep apnea, severe sleep apnea, where I wake up numerous times a day because I stop breathing. And I've tried all these different things, CPAP devices and different modalities. And I came across this technology and it has a soothing effect. And we'll talk a little bit about that. So Dave, thank you so much for joining us on the Kwik Brain Show.

Thanks so much for having me, Jim.

I'm very grateful to be here with you. Yeah. And so you and I have spent a lot of time offline, not on podcasts and interviews, just geeking out on the power of the human mind. And I wanted to bring you on not only because I was getting such fantastic results with your technology and tool, but also because one of the things that our audience talks about a lot is the overwhelming stress that's affecting their sleep. It's affecting how they're parenting. It's affecting how they're managing their teams. area and this rise of uncertainty when people are ruminating and they're thinking about these things that maybe they lead to— there's high levels of loneliness, sadness, challenges where people just really need to care for their mental health. And so do you see this also with the work that you're doing?

Absolutely. And I think, and not just in my clients, And my friends and my family, but even in myself. You know, I think the world is a very stressful place right now for all of us, and I don't think anyone is immune to— or completely immune to the stressors and the, and the overwhelm, feelings of overwhelming and anxiety that it causes in us. It's just about how do we do the best we can to not let it get us down and to overcome the challenges we're facing.

And you know, as a neuroscientist, you know, all the work that you do, like we talk a lot about this, a lot how chronic stress can actually shrink our brains, how chronic fear could actually suppress our immune system, make us more susceptible to colds, the flus, the viruses. And so you and I were having a conversation earlier about, you talk about these 4 pillars and I wanted to talk about it a little bit because, you know, our audience, loves taking action and they love practical bite-sized tips because the reason why our show is only 20 minutes or less is because people's time, they are so busy and we don't want to add to their plate. We want to give them something informative, instructional, empowering. So can we go through those, those 4 pillars?

Absolutely. So the 4 pillars are, and I should say every, almost every major religion or health discipline, including Buddhism, which I wouldn't call a religion, but has a similar group of 3 or 4 things that they call pillars or stabilizing skills that are cognitive-emotional skills that we can use to help improve our health that we fundamentally have control over that have been passed down for thousands of years. And the 4 pillars that resonate the most with me that I have learned from studying these different ancient traditions and, and really studying these traditions that were passed down orally for, for many millennia, um, were the 4 pillars of Shipibo tribal medicine that come from Peru, one particular tribe in Peru that I've studied that is very interesting. And the 4 pillars that they talk about are the pillars to help form the foundation of trust in ourselves, which allows us to have the best shot at reaching our full potential, cognitive, physical potential, emotional, spiritual, the whole thing as one. And those 4 pillars—

This is interesting also, just as a— I want people to get this. We're talking about this ancient wisdom, and it's coming from a PhD, MD, neuroscientist, You know, psychiatrist. So, you know, I love when we could meld ancient wisdom and neuroscience. So yeah, absolutely.

And I think that— and I think that's really the future of health and medicine, right? And wellness. The future of these are not looking at health from just one perspective or another, but it's looking at health holistically. And it's looking at where do Eastern, Western, and tribal medicine and natural medicine meet, not just looking at one or the other. Western medicine is incredible at treating things that are about to kill us or infections or injuries and things of that nature. Nature, things that require surgery, Western medicine, there's nothing better. But when it comes to chronic illness, mental illness, trauma, and inflammatory disorders, um, and mental, you know, a lot of mental and emotional spiritual illnesses, Western medicine doesn't, doesn't have a great track record. And so that's when we start to, you know, from our standpoint, we see our patients not getting better, we try to look elsewhere. And this is becoming more common. And so the 4 pillars that really resonated with me that I use with all of my clients and that have really changed my life personally are self-gratitude, self-forgiveness, self-compassion, and self-love. And it's these 4 pillars when practiced together, really in that order, from starting with self-gratitude as the most fundamental, because it's the easiest for us to grasp and to express, on a regular basis just by being grateful for being here today, for being— having the opportunity to sit together and to be graceful together, right? To be able to share a conversation together, to be able to take a breath in this moment and take a pause and breathe. It's these little things that allow us to feel grateful actually create a tremendous amount of positive release of neurotransmitters in our brain that help us feel safe and help us feel in control. And that reduces stress and anxiety relatively quickly when it's practiced.

And then when you're working with clients, you know, a lot of people, they hear about the power of gratitude or having a, you know, a gratitude practice, um, or what, you know, what you appreciate appreciates, you know, and then grows. You know, we always tell people you don't have to wait for a greater life to feel grateful, you know, feel grateful and you'll have a greater life. Is there a practice that you recommend that everyone could integrate in their life? Is it a journal or is it some kind of meditation or exercise?

So like you, I try to give people things that require very little of their time because everyone's so busy, myself included. And so I think the things that That I try to— starting out with the simplest things that people can do is just writing down these 4 pillars every morning when you wake up. And you don't have to write down anything else, just write down the 4 pillars. Think about each one as you write it down in the morning, first thing when you get up, and then last thing before you go to bed. And as you write it down, just writing the word, taking it out of our heads, putting it on paper, and then reading it again is enough to keep that emotional skill in our minds throughout the day and throughout the night. And so that the goal being that when we approach things in our day-to-day lives from a place of gratitude, because we have that word, that emotional skill fresh in our minds, then we're more likely to be graceful and to feel gracious when we're approaching challenge and to be actually grateful for the challenge itself rather than to ask, oh God, why me? Why am I being challenged right now? I'm so stressed out and overwhelmed. I can't take another thing. Sure, that's also a valid perspective, but how much is that perspective helping us grow? How much is that perspective helping us overcome the very challenge that we're facing right now? Whereas gratitude gives us a sense of pause. It gives us a sense of, of being able to recenter ourselves and to say, I'm grateful for this opportunity for growth, as challenging as it might be. Now, what are all the different possibilities of how I can overcome this challenge and adapt to the stress?

I think it's really wonderful to sensitize and have this self-awareness. So you're recommending people actually take out a journal or some piece of paper, handwrite it, and write down things like self-gratitude, self-forgiveness, self-compassion, self-love. And that sense, it's because the first step for any kind of transformation is is conscious, mindful awareness, right? And then they could start to change the language that they use throughout the day when they're faced with challenge. Instead of saying, oh, I got to do this, I have so much anxiety because I got to, but then got to pick up the kids, I got to help them with their studies, I got to work out, I got to whatever. But changing maybe some got to a grateful word like get. I get to do these things. I get to pick up my kids today. I get to work out today. Those little things can make a big difference.

Exactly. It's all about perspective, right? And perspective is one of those things that we have exquisite control over when we recognize that we do, right? So it's kind of what we call is like shifting our cognitive frame in psychology. So it's the— and my favorite saying of this is actually another Buddhist saying that is that before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. after enlightenment, chop wood, right? Because it's the same stuff that we have to do before and after. The only difference is the way— is our perspective on it. It's that post-enlightenment, ideally, we're approaching these same tasks that we used to see as mundane or annoying or frustrating with gratitude and love, so that we then can learn more from them. We can make them more of a core part of our lives. And we can you know, grow from every challenge and every experience you have to face, as mundane as it used to seem.

Okay, so then going from gratitude to forgiveness, most people when they think about forgiveness, they think about somebody else that they, they should or could forgive. But when you put the word self in front of that, what, what's your, your— how do you look at self-forgiveness?

And that's, that's— I'm glad you brought that up as well, because when, when people think about the 4 pillars, the most common mistake that we make is we look at the 4 pillars and we say, oh, I have already mastered those. I'm great at doing those for other people all the time.

Yeah. Right.

And that's really common. And even I, myself, when I read them the first time, I thought the same thing. But I think the challenge therein lies that, are we really, are we really like masters of those skill sets with others if we are unable or unpracticed at providing them to ourselves? And, and the best way to think about it is like strengthening a muscle in the gym. And Eric Kandel, you know, it's a practice makes perfect model. Eric Kandel won the Nobel Prize in 2002 for, you know, doing a large part of discovering the origins of learning and memory that dates back hundreds of millions of years, that's conserved evolutionarily over time, with this idea that when we practice anything, when we practice anything, We get better at it. Okay, right. You know this very well, and you talk about it all the time. When you practice thinking about yourself in a negative way, like a self-critical way, or, or shaming ourselves, which is a very common thing, right? We shame ourselves for mistakes we've made in the past. We shame ourselves or guilt ourselves for not doing enough, for not working hard enough, for not being present enough or focused enough with our families or with our work. Right? These are— that, that, that self-critic is very powerful at helping us grow and strive to be better, to the point at which it makes us start to feel badly about ourselves.

Hmm.

Once it starts to make us feel badly about ourselves, we cross over from healthy levels of what we call eustress, E-U stress, which is good stress, to distress. which is bad stress, it's stress that makes us feel like crap on a consistent basis, that actually diverts resources away from all of the organ systems that we want that make us feel good, like our empathy system and our creativity system and our digestive system and our recovery and sleep system and our metabolic and immune system, as you mentioned earlier. We want a balance between all of these systems. And so forgiveness is literally about thinking about ourselves from the standpoint of the way we would think about our best friend. Telling us that they did something wrong or they see themselves in a way that is very negative or very self-critical and saying, it's okay, you know, you're— I'm doing the best I can and I'm not going to be perfect every time. No one can be perfect every time. There's no such thing as perfect. We just do the best we can. We try not to take things personally. We try not to make expectations. But we will make mistakes, and we need forgiveness to be able to make mistakes so that we can learn from those mistakes. If we don't have forgiveness, then we actually trap ourselves in the mistake itself. We trap ourselves in that fear of failure, which keeps us from growing. So the forgiveness is actually very linked to compassion, which are very challenging for, for many of us because we all have made mistakes in the past. We all haven't done everything the way that maybe we thought we should be doing in retrospect. But that's okay. It's not only okay, it's critical for us to grow. And so by accepting that, acknowledging it, and then forgiving ourselves for what we've done in the past, we then free up this incredible power in ourselves to provide compassion for ourselves for making mistakes in the future, right? We will all continue to make mistakes. It's not just a past thing, it's a present and a future thing. And so we don't— there's no point in dwelling on them or worrying about them other than to learn how to not make the same mistake again.

Okay, so then the relationship— I just want to get clear on this then— the relationship, the difference between forgiveness and compassion, right, in terms of these pillars, is how would you define compassion then, self-compassion?

So self-compassion is, is linked to forgiveness in the way that I just described, but the best way to think about compassion is patience for ourselves. So it's patience and compassion. Self-compassion balances our self-critic, that part of ourselves that's always like, work harder, do better, you're not doing enough. Not really focused on mistakes in the past, but, but the self-critic is focused on the right now and the future. the—

our—

that must be balanced with our self-compassionate side. And these— and, and we perform the best when our self-compassion is balanced with a little bit of self-criticism, um, just like when our peak performance is balanced with some peak recovery, then we don't burn out, right? And so self-compassion, the, the ultimate manifestation of it, which is actually why it's so challenging is because patience is infinite, right? You can never completely master patience because patience is really that true acceptance of things are as they should be and things will unfold as they will over time. And without— and I just need to be here with the process and enjoy that process. And that really embracing the process in and of itself, but not just as a means to an end, right? Not just I'm doing this to get the gold at the end of the rainbow, but I'm doing this because I love the process of growth that I'm in that gets me to that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and being present with every part of every step along the way.

I love you integrating patience. That's something that everybody has to embrace more of, especially during these times. And I feel like that, you know, when we're on this journey to reveal and realize our fullest potential. Sometimes it doesn't happen right away.

What about the 4th pillar?

So the 4th pillar is self-love. Self-love in a lot of ways is the culmination of the 3 pillars before it. So what we do is by practicing these emotional, spiritual, mental skills of self-gratitude, self-forgiveness, and self-compassion, Is we strengthen our sense of trust in ourselves, the ability to trust ourselves to overcome challenge, to face stress, to adapt, and to really get to know our intuition, to get to know our intuitive self, and to trust the messages that our intuitive self is trying to send us, right? Which we call gut feelings, or we feel them as chills or tingles. People have different senses of what they get from intuition. But the point is that there's a part of ourselves deep down in there, all of us are born with, that is sending us information all the time. And we're not always listening because we weren't necessarily taught how to listen, or we weren't taught to trust that information when it's coming in. We were taught to trust only what comes in here and here, right? So, so the practice of those first 3 pillars is really critical to form that foundation of trust that culminates in the 4th pillar, which really stabilizes that foundation, which is self-love. It means being able to provide love to yourself unconditionally, without hesitation or reservation, and without asking anything in return. And when we can show that love to ourselves, knowing that we deserve it, All of a sudden, our ability to show that love truly, safely to others in our lives becomes much more accessible to us. It's not selfish love where we're oftentimes giving love and saying, you know, maybe subconsciously or deep down, not even aware of it, I'm loving because I'm hoping to get love back. I'm loving because I'm hoping to get something back, right? That's oftentimes what happens. This, this is true self-love, is the practice of loving unconditionally and without hesitation or reservation. And then that stabilizes that connection to our intuition, which many people map— the, you know, the people who do psychedelic research call it our inner healing intelligence, and, and the tribespeople call it our personal connection to the divine. Right, but that is the part of ourselves that, that really is in control of our lives when— and helps us feel in control when we tap into it and spend time listening to it.

You know, you used a word that I want to call out, um, in a good way. You used the word safety, people feeling safe, and we know how important that is because, and especially during difficult times, to be able to feel safe so you could go in that parasympathetic rest and digest, so you could feel safe to go in and grow your business, to be vulnerable in a relationship, to be able to get a good night's sleep. I mentioned in the beginning of this that you created a technology that actually, I used the word safety, feeling safe. I wanted to, people have asked me when I, okay, I'm just gonna show this. If you're watching this on YouTube, which I recommend you also subscribe, I have one of your units here.

It's called Apollo.

And I wrap it on either my wrist or sometimes when I go to sleep, I'll put it on my ankle. And tell me about this technology. You as a Chief Innovation Officer, as a co-founder, how does something like this work and how does it create a sense of safety in our nervous system? So we could, we could be at our best.

So safety is everything with respect to thriving and having a good life, but also with respect to functional cognition. Like a lot of the work that you talk about and how to expand our cognition, reach our full mental capacity, this is all about safety. And I think one of the main things, and this is the main thing that I learned in my, in my years of training, you know, over the last 20 years, I think I've been studying chronic stress now for probably closer to 15 years. And I think what's really fascinating is what is— it's not about whether or not, or asking ourselves whether or not we're capable of achieving a higher level of functioning. It's about asking ourselves what is stopping us from achieving a higher level of functioning, right? What are the blockers along the way that we could easily remove to allow ourselves to access more of this and more of this in concert, right? Working together, working in synchrony without roadblocks. And the thing that stood out to me more than anything else, which is where Apollo came from, was working with patients and clients, mostly veterans, who had addiction disorders, depression, PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder, that just weren't recovering that with these treatments we were told to use for them, the gold standard Western treatments, the medicine, the psychotherapy, it worked a little bit, but, you know, it wasn't doing the trick for people enough. And they would leave the office, they would feel good in the office, they'd leave the office and they'd feel like crap again, right? And, and they— and, and when you ask them, you know, why do you feel good with me in the office when we're making eye-to-eye contact and having an empathic Conversation, and then you feel not good, and you start to relapse and have your symptoms come back as almost as soon as you walk out the door. And everyone invariably said, "I don't feel safe out there. I do not feel safe out there." And in here with you, after getting to know you a little bit and having some some conversations, you know, I feel safe with you. I feel like I can tell you my deepest, darkest secrets, and you're not going to judge me. for it, and you're not going to look at me differently for it, and I can start to process some of this stuff that got me here. And so during that time of working with these people, which was mostly between 2014 and 2018 at the University of Pittsburgh, we had the idea of, well, if we can— if we're only helping people in the office but not outside of the office, then we're not doing a good enough job.

Right.

So is it possible to create something that could help people feel safer outside of the office, to free up some of those cognitive resources that might otherwise be focused entirely on survival because they're stressed, so stressed out and they don't feel safe, by reminding them that they're safe in any way so that they can have more access to their cognitive capacity, to their to their full human functioning potential. And so we played with everything. We played with sound, music, vibration, electricity, um, and we really gravitated towards touch because even older than music— music is as old as humanity, but even older than music is touch, which goes back, you know, similar to Eric Kandel's work, probably hundreds of millions of years, definitely tens of millions of years to ancient mammals. And the reason why touch is so interesting is because touch signals safety to the brain more quickly and more powerfully than any other single thing that we experience in our lives. And we know this from the moment that we're born, when our, when our parents hold us, and we don't know— we're so vulnerable, we don't know any connection to anything in the world, we don't understand anything, and yet our mothers or fathers or parents hold us, and all of a sudden We feel safe, right? And this is— and this is pre-conscious, right? It's not— it's not conscious. We're not even aware of it. It's pre-conscious or subconscious. So we started to evaluate that, and we figured out during this 2014 to 2018 time frame that there were very specific patterns of vibration, as you said, these soothing, uh, soothing vibrations that feel kind of like a cat purring on your body or kind of feel like somebody holding your hand on a bad day or giving you a hug or an ocean wave washing over you. Everybody has a different memory association feeling, which, which is why I love that Maya Angelou quote that you posted today, because we remember those feelings, right? We remember those feelings. We don't remember what we hear necessarily. We don't remember what we see or what people do, but we remember the feeling. That feeling is hardwired or ingrained into our system on a very deep level. And so, when you provide a signal to the body like this gentle soothing vibration, all of a sudden to the skin, all of a sudden even though it's on your wrist or your ankle, Yeah. The amygdala and the emotional cortex that detects the emotional context of a situation starts to recognize, hey, guy, wait a minute, if I have time to pay attention to this feeling of the soothing vibration right now, or the feeling of this, this ocean wave, or the feeling of a loved one giving me a hug, I can't possibly be running from a lion in this moment. And then the amygdala settles down, and then all of the, all of the brain capacity that we have that is, that is trapped in the fear box when we're stressed out and overwhelmed and our brains are perceiving threat from the environment starts to free up cognitive resources for everything else we want to do during our day.

Dave, it's remarkable. For people who want to see this actual band for this Apollo unit, they could go to jimkwik.com/apollo. And you could go there. And it's wonderful. One thing to be able to describe it, whether it's a wave or it's a cat purring or it's like getting a great hug from a loved one. And it's another to be able to experience it and actually feel it. So we actually arranged with your team when they go there, Apollo is A-P-O-L-L-O, jimkwik.com/apollo, that they actually get a nice discount on their unit as well. So you could experience it to be able to believe it. There's times I use it throughout the day where I go into that fight or flight or freeze. I have a big interview or I need to be able to perform. Under a little bit under duress because I'm watching the news, right? And what's coming in, and I just need something quick to be able to kind of get me out of state. And the wonderful thing about it is when you turn it on and you set it, you know, because it's connected to your phone, your app, that you could kind of pick your program and then it's just— then you could just set it and forget it. You know, and that, that's something that's wonderful because as you started this conversation, whatever you do repeatedly, you get better at. And it's not always convenient to be able to call your therapist or your best friend or something else to help soothe you. But this is something that you could have on you and it's very discreet. So it could be on your wrist, like a wristwatch or on your ankle or something to that effect. Even I'll use it in the middle of the night when I wake up in the middle of the night, invariably, instead of my mind going wherever, I'll just click it. Just touch it and then I'll just like, it'll put me in this kind of soothe place and help me sink back into sleep. So again, people want to see this actual unit, get more details on the science of it, you go to jimkwik.com/apollo. David and his team arranged for a special discount as a thank you for being part of our community. And also, I just wanted to say this is How it relates also going back to the 4 pillars, it's all about self, right? You're saying, you're talking about self-gratitude, you're talking about self-forgiveness, self-compassion, self-love. It's like self-confidence or self-esteem. It comes from within, right? It's not coming out from something external. Even when you talk about self-love, we know self-love is not selfish. is no amount of love from somebody else is going to give you what your soul yearns for from, from yourself, right? Especially at this time. So people take anything away from this conversation, I would recommend doing this simple exercise that Dr. Raymond mentioned. This first thing in the morning, just write down those, those 4 pillars, you know, and be right before you go to sleep, write them down and then kind of meditate over it again because that another self, self-awareness, it really is a, is a superpower, right?

Yeah, very, very well said. And it just keeps it fresh, you know. And I, and I think that all of this comes from the breathwork literature too, right? We know, and the work that you've done on concentration training, right, and training our minds to focus on one thing, uh, even though it's hard, and that just by doing that and being grateful for it, that, that retrains and rewires our neural networks and our brains to favor feeling good while we're working or feeling good while we're breathing. And being grateful for the opportunity to take a breath makes taking a breath that much easier. Breathwork is still hard. Meditation is still challenging, right? It takes time and practice and sometimes hundreds or thousands of hours for people to really master it, to be able to use it in the moment. That's why we developed Apollo, because these things are challenging. But with practice and with tools like Apollo, accessing breathwork states, or breath states or mindful states becomes easier, especially for those of us, many of us who have never actually felt what it feels like to be truly present and mindful in a stressful situation. You know, I know I had never— I had— it was something that I had rarely felt, to be truly present and mindful in a stressful situation, before we started building these prototypes and I started wearing them in the hospital. And I was like, oh wait, this, this person is yelling at me in a visit in the emergency room, and it has nothing to do with me.

Right.

So if I respond in a way that brings myself into this person's situation, I become the target.

Yeah.

What if I respond to them by first thinking about what they need right now, right? And even though they're yelling at me and they're saying nasty things to me or about me, this has nothing to do with me. They just had terrible experiences in the healthcare system. That's not something I can control. But what can I control? I can give them a good experience right now. I can listen to them right now. And that just starts to shift. And that's something we can do with breathwork But it takes a lot of practice.

You know, you and I had this— these conversations in the past where even with something like Apollo, because it's so simple, right? It's just one button, you click it, forget it. You know, giving it to family members, you know, children who have high anxiety right now could be able to wear it and be able to benefit. Because sometimes children, they have test anxiety, they have anxiety with what's going on with the world, and they shut down, you know, and they go into this fight or flight. Or freeze, right?

So it's something that really—

the effects— it's such a wonderful resource. And so that's why I want to implore people. So you can go to jimkwik.com/apollo. And I would actually challenge everybody to take a screenshot of this and also watch it on YouTube. We always put the full interview on YouTube. So we go in iTunes and Spotify, we always keep it to 20 minutes or less because people binge listen to everything on their on their commutes and on their workout and everything. But you can watch the full unedited version on YouTube at our channel. So you can actually see the units and get more of these detailed conversations with Dave. And going, talking about this, it's such, you know, that's what our goal is, to provide people with tools, these bite-sized, not a lot of time or attention or resources to be able to get multiple rewards. So I would challenge everyone to take a screenshot of whatever you're listening to right now and tag us both in it and share one of the 4 pillars. You know, what's gonna be something that you wanna be able to develop? Because when you post it and share it, there's this thing called the explanation effect. When we explain it or share it with other people, then we get even more benefit and we get to know it even better. And David, what is your social media that you're on the most or you're and your team?

Probably Instagram and Twitter. I think Twitter @DaveRabin, Instagram @DrDavidRabin.

Perfect.

Amazing.

And we'll put all of this in the show notes as we often do, we always do. And we'll put links for people to check out more about your amazing technology as well as so they could also earn their discount at jimkwik.com/notes. David, thank you so much for being on our show.

Thanks so much for having me, Jim. It was a pleasure. Hi, Kwik Brain.

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