Heat Therapy for Limitless Health | Dr. Susanna Søberg

And you do that more than 2 times per week, you have a lower risk of cardiovascular diseases, but also lowering the risk of early death.

That's a big reward.

If you can do just half of that, that's also going to give you some health. So do what you can.

That's a reason why everyone should explore this. Welcome back to the Kwik Brain Podcast. I am your host and your brain coach, Jim Kwik. And as always, we're here to help you to learn quickly. This is a much-requested episode. We're going to talk about heat therapy and talk about the mental and the physical benefits. and simple protocols that you could employ for greater physical health, mental health, greater cognitive and physical performance. And we have back on this show, Dr. Susannah Soberg. Now, we just did an episode previous to this on cold therapy. She is the founder of the Soberg Institute. She's also a leading scientist and an expert in cold and heat therapy to reduce stress, to improve health, sleep, optimize your performance. She's been studying this a very long time. I'm a big fan of her research. And this this book, Winter Swimming, which I highly recommend everyone in our community gets a copy of this book, The Nordic Way Towards a Healthier and Happier Life. It's such a beautiful piece of art. I am a book nerd, as I mentioned in the previous episode, but thanks for being back on the show.

Thank you so much. And thank you so much for the nice words on the book. I love it too. There are so many beautiful pictures there and I didn't do all that work by myself, I would say. I have a nice publisher who also did a lot of work on putting all the right pictures in. So yeah, we We got a little bit nerdy around that.

Yeah, I appreciate the aesthetics part, but it's extremely also very, very practical and highly recommend everybody get their copy. We'll put the link in our show notes as we always do at jimkwik.com/notes. Now we talked about in the previous episode, you've done so much to be able to normalize cold and heat therapy as natural ways to improve physical and mental health. And so when we're talking about heat therapy, what is it and why should our listeners explore this? And how do they do it? So what are some of the benefits that come from, from heat therapies? Are we talking about like saunas, steam rooms?

Yeah. So there is, there is actually a lot of research on what happens when you expose your body to heat. And that could be in different forms, as you just mentioned. It could be sauna, which is hot air, but it could also be, for example, hot water as in hot tubs or jacuzzi, which I find very fascinating because I like to study the contrast therapy of going into the cold and then to the heat. So the cold tubs and the hot tubs, I find that very fascinating, but saunas as well. So there's a lot of research on heat. And I think that is more profound when it compares to the cold. So I think there's a lot of studies actually showing both that if you expose yourself to saunas, you will have a better immune system, you will also work on your cardiovascular health. And that is maybe the factor which is most profound and shown in science. And this is both shown in epidemiological studies where we can see that after many, many years of people doing saunas, and this is a Finnish cohort study where they have followed people for 25 years or more even, but they have done these regular science projects where they have followed up and checked how is their health doing. And what they see in these studies is if you do heat therapy, as in saunas, Finnish saunas, then you do that more than 2 times per week, you will have a lower risk of cardiovascular We get a lot of questions about what I use specifically for heat therapy.

And years ago, I purchased at retail a Sunlighten sauna. You know, you've heard all the benefits in this episode, whether it's recharging your mitochondria, increasing collagen production, reducing inflammation, pain, discomfort, detoxification, heat shock protein, so much more. And I contacted on your behalf Sunlighten, and we've secured a discount. If you'd like to look into getting your own infrared sauna, go to sunlighten.com and use the code KWIK, K-W-I-K, and they will take good care of you. I hope you get the benefits. I'm very pleased with my unit. It's something that I use 3 to 4 times a week, and the benefits are absolutely limitless. Enjoy.

There are also studies showing that when you do these kind of heat exposure, you will exercise the body just like if you were exercising in the gym, a zone 2 exercise, or even more. It could be up to a HIIT exercise actually. So when you sit in the sauna and you sit there for, it should be more than 10 minutes, but you don't have to do more than 30 minutes because that is like the healthy window for this. And when you do that, you will have an increase in heat shock proteins if we were talking on cell levels, which is really, really good for yourself because that creates that protectiveness against cell damage and repairs the cells from the inside. And how it shows also in your cardiovascular system is that it lowers the inflammation in your cardiovascular system, which then will lower your blood pressure in the end. And it will also make your risk of cardiovascular diseases lower. And what they found in this Finnish cohort study was actually, you can say, proof on that, because what they saw was they had actually a lower mortality compared to those who only did one time of sauna per week. So if you do just more than 2, but actually up to 6 or 7, they could see that that had a healthy outcome both on risk of cardiovascular diseases, but also lowering the risk of early death.

That's a reason why everyone should explore this, to doing it a couple times a week to be able to lower your risk of dying. That's kind of a, that's a big reward.

That's a big reward. But what I find fascinating also, because I had to, I compared my own study results, of course, up against all these other studies. And I think that the fascinating part about it is actually that if you compare the minutes you stay in the sauna and you compare that with my study and also with these, you can see that there's this window where it actually seems to be healthy in the short run, which maybe would be my study, but also these studies where we follow people for so many years, we could see that if you just stay there for less than 30 minutes and actually lower than 20 minutes, then that is a good window for that. So you don't have to overexpose yourself. So coming back to what you mentioned in the last episode about the cold, the microstress is really where you increase your health. You don't have to overexpose it. And that is also where the safety comes in. Because if you do that, not only won't you maybe see the damage today or tomorrow, but you might see that in the long run. So stick to what you can say the healthy protocols for this, because that's going to give you most health, I think, in the long run also.

Yeah, I think a lot of people do saunas for, because they like to sweat, maybe release some toxins. It helps to reduce their stress levels. But that's Coming back to mortality, reducing the mortality rate, that's huge. For me, it also helps. I mentioned in the last episode, I have some chronic shoulder pain from a torn rotator cuff. It helps also alleviate pain for me.

Yeah.

And reduce inflammation. I'll do mine mostly 2 times. I'll either at the gym, fortunate enough they have a sauna there. I'll use it to finish my workout. You mentioned how it's kind of like potentially zone 2 or even more intense. And so, I like finishing with it because I'm already sweating, my heart rate is already up. It's kind of a continuation of giving my heart some exercise.

I do the same actually. So, I have also a sauna in my gym and I also do the same. After the workout, I go to the sauna and I sit there. I actually do a contrast therapy there just because I love it. But, I use the sauna as a way of finishing my exercise because it's actually also very good for, you can say, the flexibility of your muscles, but also it lowers the soreness in the muscles actually. So, I think sauna is really good to end your exercise.

There's so many benefits for using sauna, and we're fortunate to, you know, in our home to have a traditional sauna and also an infrared sauna. I don't know if there's been equal studies for both modalities, but I mean, clearly there are a lot of benefits that are there. Have you seen benefits cognitively? I read, and I don't know if this is true, that potentially regular sauna use could help with memory loss, potentially lower the risk of Alzheimer's. Is there any research that backs that up?

There's these long studies again. I want to mention the Finnish sauna cohort who also looked at the risk of developing Alzheimer's disease. And I think this comes down to increase of BDNF. It could be because there is also a link to when you exercise the body, it's also when you actually use your muscles, you will increase BDNF, which helps with memory. And I think, you know, this more than I do actually. So, but when you do that, then you will have a better memory, you will have a lower risk of developing dementia where Alzheimer's is actually one of those that are most, have a highest incidence. So, and we want to do something about it because we don't really have really good treatment for Alzheimer's yet. But sauna actually lowers the risk of developing that. That is because of some of the neurotransmitters going up, but that is also because of the blood flow in the body. I think that BDNF might be also one of those factors The brain-derived neurotrophic factors. Yes.

Very, very powerful. Now, in the last episode on cold, we talked about balancing and what the sweet spot would be to get the most rewards. And you said it was 11 minutes for the week for cold therapy. What about for heat therapy? Is there a sweet spot that you found? Yeah.

So I just want to emphasize that this study wasn't the contrast therapy, but if people don't have access, for example, to do the cold, they can just stick to the sauna protocol. But what we found was that 57 minutes per week divided on 2 to 3 days, then you will also have this activation of brown fat and have these benefits that I also mentioned before in the last episode, but I can mention that again. But there was increase in insulin sensitivity and also an increase in metabolism. So, and more efficient working mitochondria probably in the brown fat. And that is because of the increase from heat shock proteins, but activation of the brown fat, which also happens when you go into the heat, but also when you fast. you go into the cold. So it means that if you do these short-term protocols of cold and heat, you will have an activation of your brown fat. And it's only 57 minutes per week. And people might think, oh, that's a lot. But please don't do it at one time because that is way too much. You shouldn't do more than 30 minutes. That must be, you can say, the higher threshold for that, if I can give that advice.

So maybe 2 sessions at 30 minutes max, or maybe 3 20-minute sessions would do it?

Exactly. So a couple of times, if people are at the gym like you and me, I mean, then use the sauna because it's there anyway. So, and only maybe 2 to 3 times a week and just sitting there for a bit, that's gonna, and I mean, you don't have to do 57 minutes a week. If you can do just half of that, that's also gonna give you some health. So do what you can.

Yeah. And that's always, it's do what you can with what you have. And you mentioned you could also, even if you don't have access to sauna, potentially taking a hot bath.

Exactly.

Maybe with some Epsom salt and maybe do that before you sleep. For me, I'll do maybe a sauna or a hot bath with some Epsom salt, help me sleep. Maybe the magnesium is supportive. And then when I get out, I feel like my core body temperature starts to drop and melatonin productions and just helps me to be able to unwind throughout the day and what I dealt with that day. Do you want to be able to remember confidently the information that you hear on this podcast? Do you want to improve your memory to easily and confidently be able to remember names and faces, client information, give a speech without notes, learn another language, remember what you read, and so much more? There's a solution, and I call it your Kwik Recall. In just 15 minutes a day for 30 days, I've designed the ultimate How to Unlock Your Kwik Recall. Just go to kwikbrain.com/recall. Enter podcast15 for your immediate discount as a thank you for listening to our show.

There's a lot of people, yeah, you can say, have problems with sleeping or falling asleep or staying asleep. So insomnia is a really, it's a huge problem today. And actually up to 30 to 50% of people today have insomnia. sleeping problems. So what you could do is taking that hot bath before you go to bed, because that's going to help your body wind down and also the core temperature will go down. And that's what you need for falling asleep. So you're actually helping your body by exposing yourself to heat. And it sounds a bit counterintuitive, but that's going to make your core temperature drop actually. And that will help you fall asleep. Also, it will help on your stress level because it activates your parasympathetic part of your nervous system while you are submerged into this hot water. So you will have it easier falling asleep. There was a period of time where my kid wasn't sleeping that well. I gave him a hot bath before bed and he fell asleep much, much faster. So hot water, hot baths are a miracle for people who have trouble sleeping. And if people are stressed, this is actually a really good way to like wind down and just take a hot bath and then you can go to sleep. You'll sleep much faster.

To be responsible, we covered this in the last episode on cold. We talked about potential risks or precautions. I mean, obviously people want to use common sense with this, but are there any risks or precautions that you would recommend to our listeners if they haven't done any kind of heat therapy yet?

Yeah. So I would just say that if you have cardiovascular diseases or heart diseases, heart problems, then we don't recommend sauna. And if you have unregulated high blood pressure, we also don't recommend that you use sauna. or cold water immersions. And if you are in doubt in any way, then you should consult your doctor and have it measured at least so you know.

What about pregnant women?

Pregnant women do cold water immersions and actually also not saunas because that is also not good for the fetus to get overheated. That is actually a fact that we know by science today that if we overheat the fetus, it can create damage. And also for spas and hot tubs, that's not And I just want to end with this.

You mentioned this also, contrast. One of the principles you have is end with cold when you're alternating between taking cold dips and saunas to increase metabolism, prolong some of the benefits, the neurochemicals in your brain. I know Professor Andrew Huberman calls this the Soberg principle. Maybe we could end on that.

Yeah.

Why is it important to end with cold if you're going back and forth between cold and hot?

Yeah, so I recommend that you end on the cold and it might seem a little bit advanced, but you can maybe go for it if you have tried this a couple of times and you feel secure enough to maybe give yourself that challenge. So the Cyborg Principle ending on the cold would be that you end on the cold water dip and then you force your body to heat up by itself. So it means that you take your clothes on and then you go home or you just keep moving. You could do some exercise also to increase your heat in your body and that's going to take a lot of demand from your brown fat because that is increasing your heat in the body. And that is a healthy kind of fat tissue that we have in the body, which helps you much more than you would ever know because it's actually your temperature rescuing tissue in the body before the muscles because the muscles don't shiver as soon as you just get a little bit cold on the skin or when you do the cold water immersions, you don't start to shiver at once But the brown fat is activated and then also the muscles afterwards. And when you end on the cold, you activate both. And in that way, the muscles actually signal directly to the brown fat to stay activated as well. So in that way, the tissues have this crosstalk where they work together to increase your heat in the body. And it takes a lot of demand. So that's gonna take a lot of glucose and fat away from your bloodstream. And in that way, you will burn some calories. So it's good for your metabolism.

Amazing. I mean, these are simple things that anybody could do. We'll put a link. We talked extensively on brown fat in the previous episode. We'll put a link to that episode also in the show notes at, again, jimkwik.com/notes. Dr. Sohbert, your book Winter Swimming, why did you write it and who is it for?

I wrote Winter Swimming because while I was studying to do my PhD study, I read a lot of literature and I still read it today, but this was the first, like, read through the literature I did. And while I was finished, I was asked, could you write a book about this? And at first I was like, I was super intimidated. I was like, no, I can't. I cannot write a book. But eventually I was like, okay, because I've been through all that literature, I should write a book about it. And that is for laymen. So that's for everyone who are interested in this. It's science, but it's not very difficult to read or anything. So it's very easy and it's bite-sized also. So it's a good way to get started if you want Good stories, but you also want the science. So what's actually proven by science when it comes to benefits on cold and benefits on heat, but also what precautions should you take?

It's an extremely educational and also entertaining read. Highly recommend everybody gets their copy of Winter Swimming. Where can they find it?

You can find it online on Amazon, and you can also find it in some of the bookstores.

Wonderful. And how do people stay in touch with you and your work?

People can find me online. I'm pretty much on all the social media platforms, Or on Instagram especially where I'm very active, but they can also find me on soberginstitute.com where I have my courses. I teach this as well because I've made this health journey about cold and heat and how to breathe and how to use your breath as a way to lower your stress level.

We'll put links to everything again in our show notes to your social media, to your book, to the educational resources that you have available. I want to thank you again for for being back on the show. And thank you so much for moving with your mission so much of this empowering information out there to the world. Simple things that people could do, cold and heat, to be able to elevate their learning and also their life.

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me and all your good questions. I loved it.

Thank you everyone for listening. As always, make sure you subscribe on the platform, whether it's on Spotify or iTunes Or on YouTube, get your copy of Winter Swimming. And until the next episode, be be limitless, everybody.